209/ Dear Vince

Music. Hi, everyone, and welcome to episode 209 of the In Kicks We Trust podcast.

I am here with three-fifths of the In Kicks We Trust team. Kev, how's it going? What's going on, everyone? And Rich, how's it going? What's good? So we're doing something a little bit different this week. So we have brought back previous guest of the pod, Kai, aka Sexy Beast, on Instagram. Kai, thank you for joining us back. We appreciate it. Hey, thanks for having me. Always a pleasure to be here.

Thanks a lot, guys. so we are going to do something a little bit different that we haven't done before so you probably heard us talk about maybe about a month or so ago yeah probably about a month ago month and a half once this comes out we went to the vince carter jersey retirement game myself kevin kai was there with us so kind of an idea that we're going to do an vince carter tribute episode so kevin myself have been raptors fans since 95 both of us are seasoned seat holders kai if you don't

know has one of the biggest game or well i don't know much about this but i assume you have one of the biggest game worn jersey collections around that would be my assumption from from just some of the stuff you've shown i specialize more of game issued on court items and game worn items but it really the memorabilia is mostly apparel including sneakers but and original merch as well So I do like the vintage side to it as well. And there's bits and pieces here and there.

So Kai was also featured on a couple different documentaries. He was featured on one on TSN up here, which is basically our ESPN for all the American listeners. And it was kind of like it was a bunch of what would you call it, Kai? Like just a bunch of local basketball fans. I think they were deep, passionate Raptor fans slash also Vince Carter fans.

And it just kind of was a it was a video tribute to him and kind of like the trials and tribulations, the ups and downs that he'd kind of gone through with the organization and the fan base sort of thing so Kai was featured in that and he's also going to be featured which it hasn't come out at time of recording or it hasn't it hasn't released on YouTube but it should be out by the time this comes out you were on a video or they did like a 10 minute little interview

with part of your collection right. Yeah. So I was featured on NBA XL. So shout out to NBA Canada, MLSC, Bonnie and Chris's team as well. They did about a 10 minute segment and they featured myself and the history behind the collections and some of the items. So I'm really kind of looking forward to sharing that with everybody once the YouTube link comes on.

If not is currently still running on nba tv canada under the episodes from nba xl nice so you are in canada you can see that we will post we'll post the link once it once it's once it's available in the episodes out so we wanted to have kai on just to kind of discuss vince carter's legacy and of course rich actually lived in was it new york or new jersey in the time that he was playing for the nets when vince was playing with the nets yeah i think i was still in what year was

it again that he ended up getting traded 2000 and, yeah no I would have been here I was in Canada I was still in the States when he was with Toronto damn Rich you ruined my intro. Sorry, I'm like no I'm like I was in Canada when he got traded to Jersey there you go here I was thinking that you got to see him play in Jersey okay no man Rich was always a passionate supporter of Vince Carter even when he was in the States and he played for Toronto. So there you go.

Okay. I'd like to hear about that. Even when he was traded, huh? Oh yeah. Okay. Yes. So there will be lots of open ended discussion here. We will not be doing wears and pickups this week. We're just going to straight be talking about Vince Carter and we're going to get a chance to honor him because I think that's important for all of us to do. So we're going to start this off with our favorite Vince Carter shoot, since this is a basketball or this is a sneaker podcast. So we'll start off

with what what is your favorite Vince Carter shoe in his signature line? So who's going first? We'll start off. I can start it off. So when I was growing up, I never had kicks. I talked about this before and kind of my bit my sneaker origin. So it's kind of broken down into two buckets for me. So my favorite Vince Carter shoes that I own are the BB4s because it's the only pair that I own. If I had to pick a specific one, it's probably the one that I wore to the game.

So that black and purple one, because that's the original one that I remember him wearing. I've got the olympics as well and i've got that colorway that he wore on the hawks in his last year the white and purple one with the claw marks on them oh yeah they're cool yeah and i i actually got them custom kite because you know how the the pair that he wore the claws were purple claw marks on that's dope the retail pair was like it was like a translucent or like an off i got those painted purple

so they match like so those are my favorite that I own and my favorite model of his it's the VC3, that's the one with the zipper right yeah that's the one with the zipper yeah the VC1 is the one with the zipper I thought it was.

Sorry you're right Vince Carter one yeah the zipper is the VC1 yeah so if you want the one specifically with the zipper one that's the VC1 that's a vc one yeah i'm seeing good choice too yeah that's that was probably my favorite one because the zipper was such a unique thing there's a few others that i did like but that one's probably the one that stands out the most to me i believe it was the three was the other one that i really liked just going through it right the three is the

one where they had the exclusive toronto drop the t dots the white and purple yes yeah like so i i remember those pairs when i was kid and again keep in mind i knew absolutely nothing about sneakers at that point but i remember walking through the halls of the air canada center now scotia bank arena and they'd have these pictures up on the wall so at that time there really wasn't much history for the raptors so you know there

wasn't a whole heck of a lot of pictures being hung in the arena but i remember seeing those pictures of vince with those big shocks and i always remember being like man those are so dope i'd love i'd love to have a pair of those again my parents weren't spending anywhere near that kind of money on shoes for me when I was a kid. But yeah, the one for sure with that zipper, I think that was really unique. And then the three that had the full shock going through midsole was crazy.

I actually, funny enough, I talked about it. Well, when did I talk about it? It's either a few episodes ago, or I talked about it on the shoe of the year episode, which we've already recorded. So that'll be the week after this episode, Kai. When I graduated high school, I wore flint 13s for my graduation.

And there was a guy that was in my class who had a pair of the vc3s like an original pair from that year so i was like i'm gonna wear mine he's like you know what i'm gonna wear mine with i'm gonna wear my shocks with you too i think i want to say i have a picture with us still but like it was such a cool thing because it's like you just don't see pairs kicking around like that anymore like they just they didn't exist and that was

15 years ago it was 15 years ago so like at that time they were still like what got to be 2012.

It had to be like 10 or 12 years old at that point because it would have been 2000 and maybe like, three those came out the vc3s or the threes yeah i would say this was around there 2003 something like that that's about right yeah yeah so they would have been 10 11 years old at that point right so it was cool to see them and like again i know they can be you can buy them i know they can be repaired and that kind of stuff but there's just they're so hard to find

at a decent price like they're like five six hundred somewhere between four and six hundred bucks i'd say and i'm I'm like, I don't know if I want to pay that for a 20-year-old shoe at this point. Like, it's up there in age.

No, for sure. Yeah, good choices. How about you, Kai? What is your favorite VC sticker? Oh, I always have to, you know, take a deep breath when that happens. And it's because, you know, I do love Nike or the Swoosh brand. But at the same time, I think what really brought me on for Vince, it has to be the N1s. Oh, the Tai Chi's? The N1 Tai Chi's.

Okay. you know yeah the dunk contest for sure the white and reds but even after it was the white and purples i think that's probably now my favorite because i own those as well so having them in hand you know kind of just touching and feeling that suede every so often in that leather like it's still an amazing feeling like i take a look at those once a week almost and that purple really still hits, you know, especially with the 30th anniversary and you're seeing a lot of purple

this season. Yeah. Right. But the white and purple was, but that's also our home color. Right. And, you know, it was his PE pair. The one that you own is his PE pair. Yes. I'm up to about I have a few pairs of those now. I've kind of gotten deep in that rabbit hole. I started with one pair. Then I got my hands on a second pair. And then I didn't know on IG, I was looking around, and I didn't know there was a variant purple pair.

So there's a variant white and purple PE Vince pair of N1 Tai Chi's. And where it's different is the back, the 15 on the back where it's stitched on.

It's a black outline versus a red outline and the tai chi logo on the tongue is also not mismatched but they're they're backwards they're mirrored on each pair so where the black is and where the purple is it's opposite right so and the one pair i do have it's supposedly game war and i couldn't match it yet to the houston game in 2000 i believe that's the play where he, I think there's a few seconds left and Vince gets the ball and he drives and he dunks and he drives past Elijah Juan.

And we win the game. There's good footage of that. I just have a hard time matching it so far, but that's probably my number one or favorite shoe in the collection or even of all his shoes up till the VC4s. I would say VC4s are my least favorite and then maybe the Pumas. Me too. Sorry, just Just to go back to your PE pair for a second, you mentioned Variant. That is not the same thing as like a sample pair. It was just a different colorway of just small, minute differences.

So it was an actual like release pair to him for PE and he wore, it wasn't like a sample or anything. That's right. Those pairs were not samples. They were made for him in his size. And I think the N1 Taishis were 16 and a half, I believe.

Some pairs were 16 but the only differences were the 15 outline yeah and the actual the logo the yin and yang logo for the tai chi so that's wild that's yeah but i mean it's crazy that you're able to get your hands on that because just seeing the red one first off like for me i would have to say it's a tough decision for me because i think that bb4 like wasn't i wouldn't consider that like you know that's not like a signature vc signature shoe the the and

one tai chi is not a part of a signature line it's definitely part of the you know the line of shoes that he wore i have a hard time picking either the bb4 that that trev picked the og one the black and silver one because that when that one first came out when vince was just on highlight reels all over like every sports channel that was a shoe that i really really wanted because you know we were playing a lot of basketball then too in high school we always wanted to emulate vince

carter and that shoe i I remember somebody brought a pair to high school and it was a fake pair. And this is back in like, I don't know, like. When did that shoe come out? 99? Which shoe? The BB4? The BB4, yeah. The black and silver one. That would have been after the dunk of death because he's wearing the white and navy for almost the first time. So you're at 2000. Yeah. Okay. But yeah, somebody brought one and it was a fake pair.

So I remember the guy that brought it to school, he wanted to wear it to play basketball.

And we're all like you're gonna wear fake shoes to play basketball you're gonna snap your ankle whatever he's like can't be that bad and i remember he wore them and they were literally like falling apart like the shocks were like not real shocks i know they were just like plastic molds of of the actual shock you know they had some kind of like elastic or rubber something around the shock like the pillars yeah like they like snapped off whatever you can like basically fold the shoe

a half like a piece of paper it was so shit the fakes back then but everyone was in awe because nobody was able to actually buy those sneakers when they were in high school you know some kid just got a pair of fakes from wherever the fuck he got it from i don't even remember where he got it from but you know everyone was like oh there's the vince carters so i remember that moment vividly just seeing those shoes wanting those shoes badly but the shoes that really

stood out for me was the vc twos so and i always get this mixed up the vc threes the one that trev says that he likes a lot is the VC2s that I really like. And I think I always say VC3s because they are quite similar, but the VC3, sorry, the VC2 was the one that I would probably consider like my absolute favorite out of like all the Vince shoes, Even like after the Tai Chi, I think the Tai Chi was that one as well, where we saw him in the dunk competition.

We all knew after we saw that shoe, what it was and everyone actively was looking for that sneaker too. And it wasn't crazy expensive to get an and one sneaker. So a lot of people did have them, maybe not in that, those particular colorways, but they were around like in all different colorways of the and one Tai Chi's. But I didn't see a lot of people with either white and red or white and purples.

But for me, it was that white and red VC2 that really stood out for me that I was like, wow, this is just a beautiful sneaker. Like full length shocks too on that one as well. Yeah, that was, you know, early memories of, you know, just wanting that sneaker for basketball. You know, the leather on that is really good, especially the player edition ones. The PEs are amazing. For VC2s? Yeah, like leather is just like, I think that's probably one of my favorite soft leathers.

It's too bad i don't actually have a size of those to play in but they're really enhanced i find the pe versions yeah it's just a beautiful sneaker in general like i just thought it was something that was just you know you've never seen anything like that before like shocks was new relatively new to like the basketball world especially like you know you know it was it was on a lot of runners and stuff too like you saw people

wearing like the what was like the r4s or something like that Like shocks. Like a lot of those like trainers and runners, but for basketball, it was like Vince made the shocks, like a basketball, like a basketball sneaker, basketball technology. I feel like it was that boing, boing, boing. Yes, exactly. That commercial with Gary Payton, right. Where he dunks over him and he's got the big Afro. That's right. That was dope.

So he kind of like, I almost want to say Vince's like character almost like him just being that, you know, human highlight reel almost of our generation kind of made shocks. Like that was his trademark almost. Yeah. Yeah. And I know we're going to go to Rich's choices here, but is there time for me just to add in a little bit about the BB4? Yes, sir. A little bit about the history of that. Yeah. Sorry about that,

Rich. I just wanted to add that for the BB4s, that's probably my second favorite. it. And at that time, all the, a lot of the, uh, the big colleges in the U S were issued the PE BB fours of their school color. You mean that? So like Duke, for example, they had the Royal blue and they were suede like, and you can even see it through the slam magazine. That's where I actually started researching jerseys and, and shoes and on court exclusives.

It was through the magazines there and i was looking at the bb4 and i was like oh my god like you know i love the one vince has but look at what the college players have like even indiana indiana get a different type of red stanford had a burgundy suede right and msu had that forest green right and even back then there was a dude on nike talk i don't you know you guys not know nike talk yeah yeah and there was a guy i forget his name i think it was jersey joe and he was like he had access

at the time so and i was able to get a pair of those even that early back in the day so those were absolutely amazing and that's when i really fell in love with a lot of pe's was because of the bb4 shocks okay yeah and and one thing too the vc2s that that is your favorite kevin a tied for second would be the actual vc2 gundam edition i don't know if you guys know about the gundam edition right you know who's got those is one of our former guests jemaine okay he's got the gundam i think he's

rocked them beautiful shoe beautiful shoe i kind of regret not buying them i had two opportunities to do it i'm not sure why i didn't do it maybe it was just the wrong time. But i think never the wrong time it's never the wrong time that's a good point right if only i would probably buy all of them but no i hear you and those are nice i think they were paired up There were 150 made, I believe, and they were released in Japan at the Gundam site or shop.

And the other shoe was the Max Up Temple, the Air Up Temple, I believe. And a patent red for Char, one of the characters, I guess the villain in the Gundam series, if you call it that. So I just wanted to add that, man. You just brought me back. No, for sure. And I'm glad that you brought up the college PEs because...

That, that was, that was a big thing for me too. When I watched college sports was to see the sneakers that they had in their team colors, because a lot of the times you never got to see other colorways unless it was on college players. And then, you know, you could see them in East Bay magazines and things like that too, in different college PE colorways. But, you know, just being in Canada for us, like, you know, we never really had an opportunity.

Yeah, it was kind of like, it's like the Jordan 15s, right? The 15s where they had the different colors as well. They had the pine green as well and the purples. Those were sick. So really cool, man. Really cool. And lastly, Alan Houston's BB-4 shot. I forgot about him. Remember him? Yeah. He had the flight pauses, but he also had the BB-4s. And he had H2O stitched on them. And he had that beautiful royal blue suede. So here you go. Taking us to school.

Beautiful shoes. Appreciate it. for me yeah the honorable mention that tai chi and one is just and i know it's not like it was a signature shoe but you know going back to like the the late 90s with that that and one run mid yeah yeah probably late 90s and ones were everything like we were rocking at the t-shirts you remember the slogans and you know that and one and shout out to the documentary man watched great documentary on that.

That whole thing kind of fucked up at the same time but but it was great to kind of see the backstory in terms of how that came to came to be but uh the tai chi for sure but for me i'm gonna go with the the vc1 i'm a sucker for any shoe coverings so you know kind of reminiscent of the gloves obviously not the same shoe but you know i love like the cover so would be that would be probably my top pick and then the vc the vc two and three they do look pretty similar yeah

i'd probably have to go with the three and i just love that like essentially like a full full length zoom but it's not it's like full shock yeah which is just insane to even do that which is like which is nuts man i i remember when i was in high school i had a pair of shocks it wasn't a basketball shock i think it was more because they did a couple renditions of some other ones it was the nike shock xt zipper do you remember that one right the x it was like it was

like a lower cut yeah i know there's a low cut one but it's not the r4s right no it was like it was like a black the shocks were carolina blue yeah i put in the thing i'm just googling yeah i see the one you're talking about i'm just putting the thing trev might have to all black oh yeah i remember those yeah remember those yeah and i i remember like at the at the time and at the time shops were fairly new like the technology was just we were kind of like what the fuck are these?

You know what I mean? So, and they were quite expensive too. Like they were, they were expensive. Yeah. They were pretty penny, even, even in the States. And ended up getting my hands on the pair and just fell in love with them, like just loved them. And I think for the time, because it was new for us as well. And then, you know, you factor in Vince Carter and what he did with it, just further propelled it. It was just insane.

And I don't know if, to be honest, I don't know if the shoe would have hit the same without Vince. I think it's something that would have came and went. It would have been like a quick little fad because it's new. Technology is new. And then it would have been gone. Like I don't think it would have had the impact had Vince Carter not have wore, so he almost kind of trademarked the shocks like yeah he made it popular 100%.

100% like I think that's why we wore them like and we wanted them was because you know Vince Carter had them so I think had he not been attached to it it probably wouldn't have done as well as they did I would say kind of be like your Reebok Zygtec, maybe Maybe that's being a little bit cynical, but no, not that bad. But I don't think it would have had the same impact had Vince not been attached to it. But yeah, the VC1 for me, just because the shroud, the zipper,

I'm kind of a sucker for that. Just like straps. Anything with straps, just so reminiscent of 90s for me. Anything that kind of brings me back to that space, like a shoe, even if it's new, I gravitate towards it, just because it's kind of elements of what I grew up on.

So I think for me that's why the BC1 would be my top pick just because for that simple fact it was a boot look right so I like that too and that was in too right and you bring up something interesting Rich actually because I was thinking about this but that branding just worked really well with Vince especially the fact that you know one of the first times they debut that shoe he jumps over a 7 foot guy in the Olympics in the game yeah In game. Yeah.

Dunk of Duff. Dunk of Duff. I remember watching that dunk.

Like in real time yeah and was like what the fuck you know what i mean and vince and vince carter was my guy like vince carter was my guy so to see him and he had the hair like you know before he's bald like i'm like he comes i'm like vince carter can grow fucking hair like yeah you know he had like had a little hair and shit and it was unbelievable like to witness something like that and poor guy i think his career is done after that yeah rightfully

so i don't think i'd play again if fucking a guy literally just bunny hops over me and I'm like 7'3". It's just insane, man. Insane. Pure athleticism is what I say, man. Half man, half amazing. It's just don't get better than that. More amazing. Yeah. Arguably the greatest dunk of all time. I agree. Yeah. Facts. Facts.

And you got to think about it, right? Because that was their whole thing was the boeing or even before that Like the whole thing with the shocks was that it was going to give you bounce, right? Right. To have arguably the best in-game dunker. I mean, now that we look back on it, you know, probably one of the best in-game dunkers in NBA history. But at that time, he was probably the best in-game dunker in the league, right? Like to have him wearing that suit. Everything that he did was boing.

Yeah. Everything that he did was boing anyways. Exactly. You would associate him with, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, they're like kind of rocket

launchers, you know. Right? Yeah. And I mean it really compels shocks I'd say like outside of you in the basketball right because you could buy shocks as a running shoe too so am I allowed to correct myself there on the VC2 so I'm also going to pull a Trev too because I was really young at that time and so there were actually 450 pairs of VC2 Gundams that were released not 150 so there were actually more but it was still very limited still 450 worldwide is

still nothing yeah no they're still pretty hard to find but i just wanted to you know make that little uh edit thank you yeah yeah okay so the next thing that we have is kyle i wanted before we kind of get into lince carter stuff i want to discuss some of the stuff that you've done that we kind of alluded to in the beginning of the episode so like we said you had you were kind of as a so there's two videos the one that that.

Was out before the retirement jersey was the one that aired on tsn up here so espn down in the states it was kind of like a 10 minute documentary of some raptors fans so kind of maybe explain the process of that and like what they did and kind of what you were talking about in the video again we can post links if you guys want to go back after to check it out but kind of explain the video a little bit what you were kind of talking about during the video yeah so i

was approached by a producer from TSN, shout out Clem from CCYA, who referred me. They were looking for Raptors, you know, big fans, big Vince fans, and also had those collecting, I believe, or memorabilia. Long story short, there, the producer contacted me and we kind of connected and they wanted to feature me and do a shoot at my house and to take a look at the Vince collection. And I had said, well, you know, how do you want to do this? Do you want me to bring everything?

Do you want to do it at the studio? Does it have to be my place? And it ended up being at my place. And they came and they basically allowed me to show what I felt was important to me as a Vince Carter fan and to provide a little history. So we also did a short interview. And basically they asked me some questions about what my thoughts of Vince were when he came onto the scene and what my thoughts were when he got traded and what that was like.

So, and you know what, it wasn't easy. So respect to people that even do any interviews out there when that big camera, it was basically my first time sitting in front of a camera that size.

So it was quite intimidating. But at the same time, I just, you know, I just really focused and kind of locked in to what it, what it really did feel like when Vince came onto the scene and how explosive he was and how we all wanted to emulate him, how we played ball harder, how we felt so proud that he was Canadian, that he, you know, that he repped us and he made us cool and he you know with him we can beat anybody. Right. And sometimes, you know, just saying that you still get chills.

Right. When I when I say that TSN also asked a few of us, I'm not sure it was everybody to to record ourselves, to do a short recording of ourselves talking to Vince or as if we were talking to Vince.

I think it was maybe just a few minutes three to five minute video and that they were going to show it to vince and they were going to go do like at the time didn't tell me what they were going to do with it so when it all came out i was actually seeing for the first time was was wild for me because i didn't know they were actually going to film him watching my video to him so like his reaction basically the reaction i could see and you know of

course i analyzed right i'm you know jersey collector and i photo match so i'm looking at his eyes in the video and he's like you know you can see his head kind of moving a little back and forth and in the background i actually have two racks in the background and have some jerseys also around me so i would assume that he was looking at that but i believe tsm might have also shown him some clips of the video that was filmed when they were with me. Right. Okay.

Right. Because if you do watch that. That wasn't part of, like it wasn't part of the actual finished video. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So just to clarify, in that documentary that TSM puts out, there's a few scenes of me wearing a hat and there's a few scenes of me not wearing a hat. Yeah. And there's a few scenes where I'm wearing a jersey. The one where I'm wearing the Vince Carter charity game jersey. That's the one where I self-recorded. Okay. Right?

The one where I'm just wearing a warm-up jacket and a hat mostly was when TSN came to film me at my place. So I think they might have mixed it up and kind of shown him a few different clips. I still don't know exactly which one, but he did see the ball. So if it was the ball, that would have been when TSN came over to shoot. And for those that didn't see the video, like in there, wondering what the ball was like, what is the ball?

Yeah, yeah. Sorry, my bad. The ball is actually the very first Toronto Raptors franchise playoff win in history, which was used in the game on April 26, 2001, in Madison Square Garden, where we beat the Knicks for the first time.

Well, it's the first playoff win. about that that's my kind of holy grail there yeah that's insane that you have that because i'm sure you know and and you've alluded to this before when we had discussions that and i think he even says in the video like where did he get that or something like i've been looking for that right doesn't he say i've been looking for it's a that was a monumental moment quote unquote and for me that really hit right like i like oh man that's

kind of comes in full circle in terms of the Vince Carter piece for me and to collection it. So for him to see that and say that was meant a lot. So would you expect him at some point to be like DMing you saying like, what's your price on that ball? I have no idea. You know, when that happens, I'll let you guys know. And we might have to do a trade. Yeah. I'm sure he's got a plethora of items that you'd be happy to trade. Oh, absolutely.

But no, that video was, I mean, when I saw the video, I mean, just, yeah, again, like a little bit, some clarification, there was some other Raptors fans, like you said, some other collectors and that sort of thing. But the way that they had shot that documentary, that short documentary was almost like, you know, they showed the highs and the lows of his whole tenure with the Raptors. Right. And that's kind of how it felt as a true Raptors fan or true Raptors fan or people from the city.

It was like a high and a low because when he was here, he was everything to us. You know, like it was a first time, like you said, it was almost like you felt like you could win every game when you had him on your team. It was the first real superstar that we had on our team that, you know, the world was watching essentially, and he was on our team. Like I've never felt that ever in my life watching basketball.

And then now like having our team, having our own superstar, because we grew up in the eras where every team had their superstar and Raptors up until that point, never really had that guy. Like we were just in the NBA, we had players and it was, you know, exciting to have basketball.

Yeah. Happy to be here kind of thing. And, you know, we had our fun, you know, we had our fun moments, but we never had that guy who was like, you know, up on a huge pedestal and just a spotlight in the NBA at that time. Right. So that whole documentary, when I was watching, it kind of brought me back to those highs and lows because he did leave on a bad note.

And there was a long period of time where not just myself, but many other fans were like FUVC, you know, like I never want to have anything to do with you again. Like, look what you've done to our team. You could have done so much more for us, but you wanted out. Like, what was it that kind of brought you to that sort of decision almost? Right. And everything that he did was heavily scrutinized too. Like, you know, was he injured? Was he faking the injury?

You know, he goes onto the nets now and he's like dunking like he was back when we had him. So it was like. Do we believe this guy? Like, was this actually what he wanted? Like, you know, did he want just, just want out so he can showcase that talent again somewhere else? Like, what did we do to deserve that? That's the way that I felt. So, and that's, I feel like that documentary kind of brought that out.

Like it was almost like I was feeling those emotions again, but through that document, through that documentary, documentary, through other fans perspectives too. Yeah. No, I thought TSN did a great job of just the messages behind it and that it It wasn't going to be just, hey, we love you, Vince, from every single fan that was in that video. So shout out to all the people in that video. And there were fans in there that did not support the Jersey retirement.

I mean, it was interesting because the same guy says, you know, he loves them at the end. I still love you then. I love you now. But at the same time, he didn't support the Jersey retirement, which I thought was interesting. But at the same time, that's an opinion, right? And I think TSN wanted to show both sides. They wanted to show the ugly part of it. And that those things did happen. Those feelings were there. There were people that were hurt. There are people that are still hurt now.

Like if you read some of the comments, they're still there. Like how can you do this? What kind of role model is he? What's the team? Why is the team retiring his jersey? He doesn't deserve that. So there is still a lot of hate there. But I think there's probably more or there's less hate. I should say. And let me give you a perspective from someone who was very young when this happened. Right. So like Vince Carter was my idol when I was growing up. Like keep in mind, like I'm born in 93.

So when he's doing these things, I don't I don't have the vivid memory of Rich. I know, Rich. I know. Keep shaking your head. When he does. You were walking, like just I think or not even walking along when this dude went to college. Yeah, exactly. Basically. So like I don't remember some of the specific things, but like. He was everything when I was a kid, right? Like my first NBA jersey was a Vince Carter jersey. I remember getting it. It was so big on me.

Like it went past my knees, like still have it.

But like I had to have a Vince Carter jersey. Like no matter how long it was, no matter how stupid it looked, I had to have a Vince Carter jersey. And when he left, it was so, so upsetting. And just the way like that's what I think I like about that documentary, Kai, is that there was a period where almost everyone hated him. He was just universally hated. Except Rich. Except Rich. Shout out Rich. He left the team from the city he was living in to where he used to live. So he was all good.

But there was just that period of time where we all, like, almost everyone in Toronto just hated him and just could not stand what he stood for with the, like, the supposedly quitting on the team and, you know, no longer wanting to dunk. And I really appreciated that about the documentary saying, like, yeah, it was great when he was here. But that middle part when he left, like, I remember being at that Nets game, the first Nets game where he came back.

Yeah, was it where he hit that shot? Jason Kidd basically jumped over him to celebrate at the end. Like I, I vividly, Kev, you, you used to have seats in our row, right? I remember that so clearly and yeah, it was, it was painful to see, but I, I also was at that Memphis game the first time they did the tribute to him. Yes. And I was there. I remember at that point, like, uh, oh, the Grizzlies, the Grizzlies game.

So 2014, November, 14, November 19th, if I'm correct, 10 years after he was traded, maybe nine or so, something like that.

I can't remember what that oh five 14 minus five yeah so about nine years or so so like i remember i remember him getting that tribute video and just kind of feeling this this closure like it just felt like it was it was time to move on like you know he he'd never gone to really do much in new jersey like i mean you know again he had some great playoff performances but he never won an nba championship like that kind of thing and it was just i think the other thing that you started to see too

is that canada basketball progressed so far and it was all because of vince and it's like you started to look at yourself and you're like well i'm a basketball fan because it was vince carter that really drew me to watching this sport this is who i wanted to be like when i was playing basketball when i was the age is going to be really young here guys but like when i was six seven eight years old there we go again there we go that was the baby trev i had i'm i'm not

kidding you i had to have a headband and an armband the armband had to be just below my elbow because that's where vince wore it and i wear the headband backwards because vince would do that you know i kind of you sit back and you think about it and i think at that time they released the documentary the vince carter documentary or the vince carter effect the carter effect and that's where you start to see you're like i'm one of those kids like.

There's an argument to be made that basketball does not survive here if Vince is not here, you know, there's not a generation, you know, you could go either way on that, on that argument, you know, but there's an argument to be made that if he's not here, does it last?

We don't know we'll never know but there's a generation of kids who grew up watching that guy and look we have what is it 25 or 29 or something like that canadian players in the nba second most to the states and all of those kids grew up watching vince carter every single one of them will tell you that was their guy growing up yeah those are all fair points yeah i think the other thing too was that it was like more of like a

unspoken guilt for him like that's just the way that I felt that it was like, I feel like he knew he had done something wrong, but he just never admitted to it. And I think we all just wanted him to apologize for, you know, leaving the city the way that he did. And when he came back to New Jersey, I don't know if you guys remember, but you know.

When he was being called in, like his name was being like announced as one of the starters, you know, he was kind of like nodding his head, like putting his hands to his ears and kind of like the, just that sort of exactly egotistical type of what I like, he was expecting it, but it was never like a, Oh, I'm sorry. Kind of thing. It was just like, yeah, I'm a villain now. Like you guys hate me and I'm going to own it. Like that's almost the way that it felt.

So the forgiveness never came right away because it almost felt like he was, you know, playing into that, playing into that. Right. So for a long time, he kind of like fueled that fire almost, you know, even in the playoffs when we met him in the playoffs as well.

And they took us out when he was on the nets it was just more more fuel to that fire so it took a long time he used that hate as motivation for sure absolutely and most players do right but absolutely that was personal you know like it was very personal yeah no and i think i think at the same time he was probably hurt inside as well like even that first game returning which we kind of see later on in 2014 in that Memphis game where he gets that standing ovation where it started with booze,

but then it becomes a standing ovation for the very first time. And that's when he gets, you know, like he starts the ball. Right. I always think he gets traded in 2005, but it's probably because of my season. So it's actually the 0405 season.

Right. He got traded in December 17, in 2004 right so right at the end of 2004 he gets traded to yeah like in the middle of the season yeah yeah yeah yeah there you go but i always think 2005 for some reason but anyway yeah i think for me to speak to that like that whole situation because i'm kind of like an outsider looking in a sense because i didn't come up here and i guess feel the full impact that he had even though.

But I wasn't in the city in the sense of like how everything grew here with him. So I don't hold that same sentiment. Right. And I also understand like it's part of the business and people got to do what they got to do. We may not like the way they do it, but at the same time, like what he's done for the city. And I guess maybe that's why people were so much in their feelings, because it was like you were our guy. Like you were supposed to like similar to LeBron when they were burning his

jerseys. And when he left Cleveland, I'm thinking to myself like and once again, we're outsiders looking in. Right. Same thing. I'm just like, is it that serious? Like, you know, the guy is making moves to, you know, propel his career, do what he needs to do. So that was my same sentiment with Vince Carter. But once again, I'm looking from the outside in, in a sense. Right. So I didn't feel that way.

Like, and I was like, what's the big deal? Like, why is everybody so butthurt that, you know, this guy left and did whatever he didn't, maybe the way he left and in the manner he did. But at the same time, right, these guys got to make the decisions, what's best for them, what they need to do. And sometimes it doesn't look great when they leave, you know? And I'm just like, everything he's done for the city, it was mind-boggling to me that he would be treated that way.

It's kind of how I looked at it. Because like you guys said, does basketball survive if Vince Carter doesn't come to Toronto? Like, look where it is now, right? And that impact, that Carter effect doc was like amazing. And it gave you some insight too to kind of, even with that, because we didn't know, right, the reasoning behind it, what was going on behind the scenes. You know, we just assumed, he said, fuck you guys, I'm out of here.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm on to the next one. like and that kind of gives some more context to it but me looking from the outside in like i didn't feel that way in terms of you know him leaving it i mean of course he went to jersey which just made him better but yeah just my perspective just because like i said i wasn't in the city and really could feel what you guys felt in regards to basketball growing in toronto right to me basketball was

basketball just because of where i was where for you guys it was a little bit different so i definitely can understand both sides it strikes way way past basketball like even you know kai was rocking the the the vince carter all-star charity basketball jersey like he was mentioning in that video and i remember that was something i looked forward to every summer him putting together that charity and it was like doing stuff like that you know he had

you know his own nightclub here too which was a huge deal right like he did a lot of stuff you know carabana You know, he just kind of made the city very vibrant and, you know, he gave back to the community as well.

Like he was basically like a part of the city and he made Toronto like, you know, a part of, you know, him as well, which I think that was where that whole, the emotion kind of came through, came out like more so being in the city because, you know, we just always thought he was going to keep supporting and repping Toronto as if it was his own city. And that's kind of what made it hurt a lot more when he did decide to leave or how he decided to leave.

And you remember how Petty and how the organization built that up to remember the giveaway on that Nets game. The first one he came back on. Was it like something to do with the baby? Yeah, yeah. The keg. Again, remember this very clearly. The keg, which is a steakhouse. It's a steakhouse up here in Canada, like a big chain steakhouse. Had free giveaways of a bib with the number 15 on it.

That's friggin' diabolical. that was that was a giveaway that was approved by the franchise and that further plays into it right like just in terms of like him going like so you gotta all that stuff was against him in that regard right it was kind of a lose-lose but it's the nature of the business i guess you know well there was a build-up to the change you know the first let's say what 98 99 would have been his rookie year so the first three four

years were pretty darn good you know everything that you know we've talked about you know the charity games his love for the city you really saw it somehow that changed I think it started really with the injuries he started getting more injuries the fans started to get maybe a little impatient to be fair and there's probably still a lot of behind the scenes from management that we don't know about that we've only heard about you know taking away his mom you know his mother's

parking spots as just one example not agreeing on hiring of the gm as another example but on the court what we saw of the.

Vince that we once knew was not the same even though i'm not dunking anymore like that did happen for a little bit of a stretch whether he meant it or not it did happen so as fans you're going hey the first four years you were doing all that okay you want to change that up sure maybe you were joking right but even on the court like for me i noticed he wasn't going all out so i don't know if it was the injuries like a lot of us didn't know but we knew it was a change and we and it was different

and i think that's where the disconnect started to spread it started to grow from probably his entire environment there you know with the management as well and And that's the one thing he never really talks about. So I think a lot of fans want him to not necessarily, I don't need an apology, right? Because to me, at the end of the day, it's still a game. And he's still a person. He didn't really do anything to me personally, right? Like, you know, he's an athlete.

This basketball is still a game. And I know there's a, you know, it can be used as a metaphor for life. I get all that.

Right. But he never actually acknowledged those moments in time where it was probably difficult for him being at that age. Right. But I think for some fans, the hardcore ones, especially maybe wishly thinking that maybe he would just talk about it. And maybe he will at some point, maybe just a little bit more than that.

And I don't think he owes us anything to do that. i think we're more kind of curious and just being the fans that we were for so long and and erin all the positives that he's he's done for the city what really happened we want to know the behind the scenes basically like something must have ticked him off too that he did ask for a trade like make no mistake he did express those sentiments until he didn't want to be traded.

Because apparently at the end you know he's telling sam mitchell and this is just through what we hear right and even from sam mitchell saying that he did not want to be traded on on the that day of the trade i believe or close to it and i believe that right and i believe that too so it was it was definitely a hard time but i think for me you know the the the positives totally outweigh anything negative especially now and i think that memphis grizzlies

game where gets that standing ovation and he starts crying you know that's where you know i was like hey you know what dude really cares still for him to do that like it's toronto's always been inside him absolutely so that that's how i felt about it and how i've kind of grown from that you know there was a time where i i did hit i probably hated him too at one point especially right after the trade and that's because we were hurt i was hurt right because you know you get so

invested in sometimes and everything that he's done for us. Why would you leave all that? Yeah. So... Well, and I think it was, it was just, you know, as, as such a hardcore Raptors fan, okay, fine. He wants to get traded. We're going to get something good for him now. Like he's a superstar. We should get like, look at the trades that are happening now. Like when Rudy Gobert got traded, like how many picks they got?

Like, I don't know. They got like 20 picks for the guy or something crazy. You know what I mean? Exactly. Like something crazy like that. So you're expecting something like that. And then when we get what we got, like it's actually arguably one of the worst trades in sports history.

Is not there's no argument about it i mean there's been some bad trades in sports but that's considered one of the like worst trades in sports history of all time so that kind of almost like was like another jab right shout out alonzo morning if you're listening yeah right thanks for not reporting thanks for not reporting it's just it just almost kind of was like an additional stab in the back that's what it felt like you know it's like okay well fine

you want to leave whatever like you can't change the way he feels you can't change what management is going to do but at least we're going to get something good and that was the the the upside at least what we were all thinking was going to happen and then when we hear about the trade that's being reported.

Like that's not what we should be getting this doesn't make sense right so i don't know that was my sentiments towards it and shout out eric williams and eric williams yes the williams brothers brothers not brothers not brothers but no they're not but everyone said the williams brothers that was that's funny because everyone said oh we got the williams brothers and zo who never even stepped foot in in canada like well to be fair zo did come to one of the uh vince carter charity

games so did one one of the games i believe yeah those were fun times too like you're right the positives they outweigh the negatives but i think it was just how it happened and when it happened it's hard to not i mean sorry it's easy to forget those positives because of what happened and when it happened so but I mean like fast forward to.

Now, like we were able to just a month ago or a little over a month ago, watch his jersey get retired. And there was a long period of time where people were talking about, is Vince going to get his jersey retired in Toronto? No, he shouldn't get his jersey retired in Toronto. Like, you know, you even say there are people that still hate on the fact that, you know, he doesn't deserve it and things like that. Like for it to actually happen. And we attended that game.

We watched the ceremony. shout outs to kellen too because you know he was able to accommodate us at the scotia club where we watched the ceremony and pretty much the entire game there but seeing that as well does that change like any of those negative moments because you know he was very emotional during that ceremony as well and you know where trev and i seats are we can't see the championship banner which hurt me for a long time because you know we're on the opposite side but the

vince carter jersey banner is right there so at least we get to see one banner now from our seats the raptors banner that is yeah like what were your thoughts during that whole retirement ceremony i thought that was a pretty emotional for everybody that was there and i think to your point i mean you heard how loud that place was that night you know when he came out and he and he gets emotional and The roars just kept going up and up to like two to three levels higher than normal.

And I think that kind of really tells you about there's I feel there is less hate and I hate to use the word forgiveness. But more forgiveness in terms of the hardcore fans who were really hurt by his by that trade and that departure and, you know, his last season or so with us. I think that night, it was definitely much more positivity. The energy was great. You know, I had a little bit of water in my eyes, you know, when he was bawling like crazy.

And I looked over at you two and, you know, I think I might have seen a tear or so there from you, Trev. Yes, you did. Right. But no, I'm only joking. But yeah, no, it was emotional. I thought it was an amazing night, man. You know, and it went, what, 45 minutes? Yeah, it was a long time. much longer than your normal halftime. Yeah. No, it was, it was definitely very emotional. It felt like the nice bookend to a story that didn't have a very good middle piece.

Let's put it that way. Right. It's a good way to put it, Trove. You kind of seen it building. I, I had really hoped they were going to bring him back for one season.

I was hoping they would have brought him back during the championship season. That would have been, the best ending that it really could have been right like to have him come back and even if it was in that like i know we all watched jeremy lynn when he was here but if it was in that jeremy lynn role where he like basically never played or did not play very frequently he was in you know garbage time maybe they needed him for another you know like five ten minutes somewhere.

And just for him to be a part of that i think would have been so so special but yeah anyways that's a whole other story even in the the 1920 season i wanted i was hoping they would have brought him in sanity got linsanity got a few seconds in there just to let you know he did just a few seconds he was in the playoff he did he did he got more time but i hear what you're saying it would have been so nice yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely and it was it was it was a really nice ending i

think and just to have it and kev like my dad and i went about a month after we went to we went to a game and the banner is right in front of us like he can see it perfectly from where we sit and i was like an amazing bookend and what's funny actually is where we're sitting in the scotia club so i took in this observation too you actually like if you're at a regular game like i mean you know obviously it's loud it gets loud in there obviously but when

you're a regular game and i was noticing this versus the game we were at it's not as loud in there like it's almost like this sound travel well sound does travel up but it's like it just doesn't kind of tuck into where the scotia club is so like for us to be like it was loud like we didn't actually get the full effect i think of how loud it was had we like been yeah more in the bowl area our seats yeah in our seats in the arena right so it was real touching and it was it was nice

you know i know he i know we kind of talked about forgiveness and you know does he need to have an apology i agree i don't think he does but it. Was i love what he said in his speech where he said whether you love me you.

Hated me you cheered me or you booed me that's all of our numbers going up there and that that was like for me that was that was touching because it was like that was that was all of us going up into the rafters right so. Well, even not only just like that ceremony itself, but just everything that was leading up to that game where they did stuff around the city. They put up all those big jerseys too, right? Plane.

Yeah. The plane as well, you know, just different things just to commemorate his time in Toronto. The big mural that went up as well of him doing the dunk. So I thought, you know, it was just one of those things that was, it just almost felt like closure. You know what I mean? Like, I think everybody wanted that and you're right. Like, I don't think he owes anybody anything or any kind of explanation, but you can tell through his emotions that he never wanted that to happen, but it did happen.

And we were all able to look past it and just focus more on the positives than the negatives, because that negative, you know, haunted him for a long time. And I know he felt terrible about it, but again, at the same time, it was like, you know, he probably had a mix of emotions. There wasn't a single emotion that he could really explain, I'm sure.

Right but and you know to rich's point as well you know it's a business as well he wants to advance his career maybe there was things that we didn't see behind the scenes that was you know you know he didn't mesh well with toronto after a certain point we don't know that those are things that we may never know right so yeah but just the way that we honored him and the way that it led up to that game and that ceremony i thought it was

very well done and then it just kind of goes to show that the city you know did appreciate everything that he did when that moment happened so Yeah. I just love, would love to hear his side.

Of course. I think that's. I think we all would, right? Yeah. I think that's part of the reason why a lot of people were mad because they just wanted to hear from his own, from his own mouth. Like, why did you do it? What was the reason behind it? Was it us? Was it, you know, like, you know, just give us a reason. Right. And I think that was a lot of, you know, that's what fueled a lot of people's hate. So, you know, when you look back at it, you're like, is that something to really hate on?

Yeah. because you were a huge Toronto fan, but at the same time, it was like, you know, when somebody does something wrong, you just want to hear them say, you just want to hear them apologize. You want to hear them say, you're right. I'm, you know, like that type of thing, you know, when it comes to arguments, whatever, but yeah, no, I think, I think it was, it was very well done ceremony.

I think everything that he did to commemorate him was great too, to be able to see that, you know, banner up in the rafters now, I think is well deserved.

But throughout those years too, were you still doing a lot of like collecting for, vince stuff even after he had left yeah so tia that tsn documentary the the producers asked me that question oh did they okay yeah it was very specific and it was exactly that same question that you asked kev and yeah no i actually did stop collecting there's a reason why i have vince Carter jerseys from 98, 99, and it ends basically at 2002, because those were my favorite Vince years.

Right. Those were my favorite moments of Vince. 03, 04, I don't have any pieces from, not that I know of except shoes, but jersey-wise, I don't have any of his jerseys. I don't have New Jersey game jerseys. Right. Sorry, Richard, but mine is in my office. Right. I mean, I have the Olympics, but he was still with us. Right. And that was, you know, that was 2000.

So and I told him, but ever since the Memphis game and again, when I see him like that and that was moving for me and I started collecting again after that, actually. True story. Yeah. I started chasing back some of the. How about the hunt? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you are. I love the hunt. That's the beast, the hunt right there. Yeah. But, you know, I definitely encourage people to watch that TSN one because you talk about your collection.

I mean, anybody that knows you or follows you or has heard our podcast episode previously knows that you have quite extensive collection of Raptor stuff. But VC stuff specifically, okay, the ball obviously is your Holy Grail. What were some of those, I hate asking what's your favorite stuff because people always say on the podcast, it's so hard for me to pick favorites.

But are there other pieces that are in there that are Holy Grail worthy or something that you were super proud to eventually own? Are there certain VC items? Oh, yeah. The Vince Carter rookie game-worn warm-up home jacket, which they wore from. Yes, white and purple. And the team wore it for two seasons. So that one's special because I believe, and again, I haven't photo matched it to that particular game. In March 2000, they changed the national anthem with his name.

I don't know if you have seen this clip. No. Rich, Trev? No. They changed the Canadian anthem to include his name as part of the year? So the singer puts in Vince in there instead of some of the words. So if you haven't seen it, I don't want to spoil it. Okay. But I'll tell you what though. Yeah. I'll tell you what though. It's going to come out in my NBA Excel feature. It's in there. Okay.

Okay. Right. Spoiler alert. But since we're talking about it and you don't have to go searching for it, it's actually not easy to find. But they found it when they did the feature on me in reference to the jacket.

It so it's it's a pretty cool piece and you see vince's reaction to it which is awesome right because he's he's shocked by it right because he's just you know the players are all standing listening to the national anthem you know they kind of wander a little bit they kind of move back and forth and then he hears his name yeah anyways i'm not going to spoil it i'll let you guys watch it but that's probably one of my favorite pieces also from his rookie year as well so that's why it's

special to me anything rookie is always special right yeah without you You know, that goes without saying like a card and the ball, I kind of separate the ball is it's Vince because, you know, he was our star player when we won that first playoff game. But it was the whole team. Yeah, right. Yeah. So that ball, that's more of a Raptors grill. Yeah, that was not one more of a Raptors grill. I mean, arguably you can, you know, say Vince too, right.

But as the best player on the team, another item probably would be his game worn Nike VC shocks three. So those are game worn. i actually have two pairs so and inside the shoe has the initials abw abw abw and for the longest time i couldn't figure it out and final and i forget where i found the information but i verified it it's his grandmother's initial and in the hall of fame speech he gives her a shout out.

Right so that was pretty cool when he did that i was like oh i get it now right oh when you heard that you're like oh that's what ab nobody ever told you when you heard that no no i actually i forget where i found it like i don't know if it was from another collector or it was on the internet somewhere as well on an article okay it was one of the two right but i'm pretty sure it is vince carter's grandmother's initial oh that's incredible yeah and

and probably my third favorite is probably because of who i got it from so one of vince's classmates from high school i obtained the yearbook which he autographed high school yearbook pages yeah his last year okay so his senior year yearbook signed by vince with a personal message as well from vince which i have him shown, right? Just out of privacy for, you know, who I got it from. But, yeah, I know there's some, it's an early, very early autograph.

So for all the, you know, autograph people out there, it's one of his earliest autographs because he's still in high school. And he's already committed to UNC. So there's actually an autograph where he signs Tar Heels.

Or gold in a way and he just committed he just committed yeah so he made that multiple times in the yearbook he's in the yearbook there's about three at least three signatures maybe four with the personal message and is he signing just any random page or he's signing pictures of himself where he's signing pictures of himself oh wow like photos of him yeah one where he's playing obviously basketball yeah and there's one where he's playing volleyball and he's spiking the ball which he

also mentions in his hall of fame speech yes he was pretty darn good at volleyball and football and then t max starts laughing so there's that but with the book i also obtained his what i believe is is a backup they called that a blood set his very first all-star game jersey with the star patch that's sewn on there's a thicker brown patch which is really rare but it has a year on and the event location. So it would have been the Sunday game after the slam dunk contest that he wins.

Yeah, because those years were the years where they didn't actually have an all-star jersey. They used the Raptors one. That's right. So players would wear their own jerseys. Own jerseys, right. In either the home or the away, depending on the East or West. In either the home or the away. Depending on if you're East or West, right. Yeah, okay, okay. Right. And Rich, if you remember, you'll like this. He's wearing the black and red

and one tie shoes. So he wears the white and red for the slam dunk contest. But Sunday, he wears the black and red, which is pretty darn cool. Oh, yeah. It's pretty cool. Those would be some of my favorite items. Yeah. I mean, it changes every time sometimes. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, just to be able to own those pieces. And I'm sure there's people out there, some other collectors that have been knocking on your door saying, hey, would you ever give these items out?

There's always somebody. Right? And I get it because I'm the same way sometimes when people have items that I want. So, hey, it's all respect and it's all love, you know. But I, I love chairs. So I actually had the Vince Carter charity all-star game, his last one from 2004. I have that courtside chair. So it's got the branding and everything and it's white and red. And it actually says 2004 stamped on the leather. I think I remember seeing you post a picture of that. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Incredible piece too. Well, it's got a buddy now. I have two now. So now you and your wife can sit beside each other on those chairs.

You don't have to sit by yourself is what i'm saying no no i don't know if she knows about it actually but yeah i mean it's it's always incredible she will when she listens to this though yeah okay shout out to the wifey though of course there you go yeah but it's always i mean again like i said as as long as we've known you i mean and you know for the amount of time that we've known you.

You always seem to amaze us with, you know, pieces that we've never heard before, seen before and things like that. So I think it's always incredible to hear about your collection. Thank you guys for the kind words, man. But yeah, you know, and I think we discussed in our last episode or, you know, in the episode that you were featured in previously, like your solo episode, like, you know, how do you get these items? And I know there's a lot of people out there asking the same thing,

like, how do you find this stuff? Like, where do you get it from? Like, how much does it cost? You know, like, you know, all that other stuff too. And And, you know, I think it's just your passion and just persistence and, you know, just being relentless on your searches. I'm sure you search every day or, you know, for the most part, you know, as much as you possibly can, right? Yeah, absolutely.

You know, everything on the internet, whether it's even just as simple as Googling or all the marketplaces, all the platforms online. Also, even on Instagram, I've been lucky too. You know, I think the networking is important.

There has to be a little bit of luck too. as an example maybe rich messages me and says hey you know what i have a friend of a friend who wants to get rid of some of their vince carter items or or bb4 pe shocks here right so sometimes that actually happens and people reach out to you right yeah there's sometimes there you know there is an advantage of being out there being public and for them understanding and knowing what i do that

i am a collector and not so much of a reseller i i don't resell a lot i I mean, the only times I have to do it because I'm not wealthy is sometimes I'll have to trade in, right? Yep. You got to trade in a little bit, right? Especially when you're obtaining another high-priced item, for example.

But yeah, I mean, the hunt's pretty wild sometimes. You meet a lot of different people too. So fans, other fans, retired fans, and sometimes people just don't care. They don't really care what they have, and it's out there.

Was there ever, or maybe, maybe it's possibly a goal, but now that Vince knows that you're out there, now that he knows that you've got some of these wild pieces, are you going to make it a goal to ever try to meet him and get him to maybe sign some stuff or show him some of the collection? Like, you know, how would that feel for you to be able to like actually meet Vince and, you know, share some of the collection with him? Like, has that ever popped into your head? Oh, yeah.

If there was ever an opportunity that arises, first of all, that'd be super dope. And yeah, I would love to show him, you know, what I've curated over the years and why each piece is meaningful to me and maybe even how I've obtained those. Right. I'm not sure I can tell him who I've obtained it from, especially that classmate, but, you know, shout outs to him. And so it's super good dude. I didn't want to do it, but he understood what I did. I mean, it took a lot of convincing, right?

Like it wasn't one of those where it's like, here, you know, pay me this. It was, you know, it was dialogue, you know, there, there's, it was good communication. And he really understood why I wanted those pieces. And he felt that I was the right person to have it. so sometimes that happens in these transactions where they become a lot more meaningful.

Which is pretty you know important to me too of course yeah yeah i mean i think i think anybody that knows you knows that you're not like one of those you know collectors that's just like give me give me give me give me you know like what and then they don't really care about the relationship or the networking that goes with it sometimes i behave like that that's when the beast comes out that's the nature but you're still sexy about it you're still sexy about it you know You're a beast, please.

Sexy is the collection, right? And the beast is the hunt. How I like to describe the IG handle now. How about that? I like that. There you go. It's definitely not me. I'm not the sexy. So it's the Raptors collection. Yeah. No, but the Raptors collection is insane. The Vince stuff is insane. Thank you. I'm excited to see that NBA XL. I'm excited for you guys to see it, honestly.

There's some things that you haven't seen before, I believe. so and like a lot of people have not seen before yeah i've kept a few things you know i always have a few in the chamber like we say and but yeah yeah no it should it should be airing soon i'll be promoting that link oh yes yeah no definitely excited to see that because yeah your collection of stuff like i think you talked about the jersey war to the retirement game right it was that all star sunday jersey that is

the all star sunday game jersey signed too wasn't it signed it was sign autographed jersey yeah so that was gifted to the person that i bought it from wow incredible right so sometimes the provenance does matter who it's from like the source right and i always tell other collectors sometimes you know they ask me about letters and certificates of authenticity and i always say well those those are okay but it depends on where you got it and

if you're able to photo match it like if it's a game or used game war in peace your your best your best proof is to match it with a photo of yeah of him wearing it in the game yeah a letter yeah you got a letter doesn't really mean anything these days anymore really wow that's surprising not much it depends on who it's from okay right like if it's from.

Tmack i'll give you an example if it's from tracy mcgrady and he decides that he wants to sell a few items that vince gave to him yeah for charity let's just say for an auction right that would matter right because you know it's coming from yeah yeah that makes sense yeah yeah or is it coming from a general auction where it came from another collector you don't know who that collector is but they have a letter from another

guy who says yeah yeah this this came to us game worn and we're the company.

That does it but you know it looks like it's game use it's like well if you can't mash it yeah show me a picture yeah yeah where's the proof yeah there's a proof that it makes sense though yeah no for sure and then that's how the game is today right yeah yeah it's all about photo matching now because i remember like you know and i bring it up a lot that i was a big jersey collector at 1.2 but not game worn stuff or you know game issued stuff i would buy the authentic

but i would come across a lot of stuff that was autographed you know quote-unquote game worn and the big thing back then was certain COA. If you don't have a COA certificate of authenticity, it's, you know, who knows. Right. But now you're saying that even a COA is not even, you know, it's not like the top, you know, authentication anymore. That's surprising. Not for game worn. Right. Not for game worn. For autographs, maybe like they, they authenticate whether it's his actual signature.

Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And there are legit companies that will certify autographs. So for all the autograph collectors out there, you know, I get it. I totally understand that. And cards, that's a different animal for me. Right. Right. So I'm more, again, more apparel, jerseys, shorts, right? Warm-ups, shoes. So even shoes is a whole different conversation there too. Yeah. You know, so they can be a little bit hard to match sometimes. And they fall apart sometimes, right?

Yeah, right, right, right. So it's not going to look the same as the day that they were wearing them. Even some of my game-worn shoes, they're starting to crumble a little bit. It's pretty interesting that some shoes will crumble faster. Jordan 1s are like tanks as you guys know, most of them. They last a long time. Those hold up. The whole autograph is an entire different conversation because especially autographed jerseys.

Like my advice when people ask me they say hey what do you you know like friends even they say what do you think of this autographed jersey and i look at the jersey and i'm like well i don't know if that jersey is real or not or let's say if it was it was real but it's a swingman jersey and no disrespect to swingmans okay i get it right they're affordable ready available they're still legit you're still supporting the team i'm cool with that but if you're buying an autographed swingman

jersey for a high price why not get an authentic autograph jersey when i get a team issued jersey that's autograph your value goes up much more oh the issue is the issue is they're not readily available the team issued versions or the authentics right because it's much easier to get a it.

And then release it for sale right but that also means that there's a lot more that the volume of that goes higher right it's not as limited so i think if you're collecting you do want that limited version you know but if you're paying a fair price an affordable price you know and you just want that player's autograph on a jersey i think that's cool too yeah i think that's absolutely cool too like if it's if it's a younger child and they want that and it's affordable i think

that's cool too right yeah i think i think a lot of the times like you said yeah if there is a young fan or something out there they want that autograph because it's proof that they've met that person too right so sometimes it's not always about value i think from a collecting standpoint you know what you're explaining is you know a swingman jersey as opposed to a game issue jersey, autographed the value of the of the authentic or game issue jerseys can be way higher of course right but you

know yeah like you're saying as well is that if you're there and you're trying to get a card sign or a poster sign or you know even a pair of sneakers signed or something like that if you want it for that sentimental reason that sentimental value is going to be way higher for you because you're looking for something that proves that you met vince carter or whoever you know right so totally and again not everybody looks at and collects jerseys like we do.

To a lot of other people it's supporting the team with that apparel, And I don't have an issue with that. The only times I have an issue is if you're rocking a fake jersey. Yeah. Right. And you're sitting lower bowls or you're sitting in court side. Don't do that, man. Don't do that. I agree with you. You can't sit courtside and have a fake jersey. Blasphemy. Yeah. I can't. I can't let you have a pass on that. It's like showing up to sneakers. Showing up to sneakers on with fake kicks.

Fucking fake kicks. Yes. No, we get a little crazy sometimes. Yeah. We're looking at what you're wearing. Like if you got like if i see the three of you guys wearing jerseys at the game i'm looking right like i'm looking at tags i'm looking at everything from afar but you also got to respect that right like i think that's just part of the game right just like with sneakers it'd be no different like i'm not pulling up to a fucking basketball game with a fake jersey like that's wild.

Or fake shoes or fake shoes yeah well because you got guys like yourself like i said who are really looking to be it's no different than us right we go to the sneaker events like yo you got some fake fucking shoes on so i would expect the guys who had the games who really take this thing serious yo do jerseys fake rich that's a perfect analogy yeah right but here it's saying though and and that example was great because you had said you're not going to go to like sneaker con or something like

that with fake shoes right but that's sneaker con right i don't know we can say the same thing about these uh like a raptors game in a big arena where it's housing that many people and that's where it goes a little bit sometimes i feel like hey i don't want to be that jersey snob but that's my thing right that's my hobby that's what i do yeah i've always thought the same thing too right because a lot of times and i don't notice it as much with basketball jerseys specifically

but there was a time like with baseball jerseys where yes you used to the bautistas i saw so many fake bautista jerseys and it would be like it was crazy because like at one point kai like me and some of my friends had flex packs right so we go to 15 games every summer so we were there a lot and we're sitting in most cases as high as you could possibly sit like those are the seats we chose to sit in like you know we're we're the very back we can

we can touch the track basically where we're sitting.

So i'm looking down on the whole stadium right now you can pick out you're like that's fake that's fake that's fake that's fake it's like i get it like you want to support the team and you want to like you want to have a jersey or whatever the case is but it like i just i i never understood it because to me they always look off something is always off about them right it was the font some some of them were like the letters were a little bit shinier than normal you know

when they were smaller the logo was smaller the lettering like the blue jays lettering was small like all of it it's an interesting phenomenon because you know are you really supporting the team when you buy fake gear no you're not right right no no right so that's the thing so are you just trying to be long now if you didn't know any better sure i'll give a pass yeah or if you can't affordability sure you get a pass but if you willingly know and you're

still doing that i don't know you know what was a big time or sorry when i saw a lot of fakes for raptor stuff specifically was when we had Kawhi Leonard and those North jerseys. I saw a lot of fake, the red ones. They were out there. Lots of, and not just Kawhi ones, but just any, like I saw Freddie ones. You're right. Like I just seen like every player pretty much in either. Yeah, no, it's tough for us guys to see. Even on like ESPN, like in sports shows, you see them hanging there and you

know they're fake because they don't know they're fake. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because there's not a lot of us really right that they can obtain or even places where they can obtain or maybe they can just don't want to I don't know maybe they just want something quick yeah yeah Well, it's pretty safe to say that, you know, when we see your NBXL, we're not going to see any fakes, right? I hope not. Can you imagine? Yeah, no, I can't imagine. I was obviously kidding.

I was obviously kidding, but we're obviously very proud of, you know, the recognition that you've gotten recently, especially with the Raptors. Thank you. Especially with, you know, the, you know, stuff that's going on with Vince Carter now, too. But we've always wanted you to showcase, you know, more of your stuff. And I know you want to do that as well, but you're all about timing as well.

Like you're, I noticed, you know, when there's something special that happens, you know, like anniversary of the inaugural, you know, Grizzlies Raptors games. For example, then you bust out Grizzlies and Raptors, like old school stuff. And I'm just like, you know, this guy knows like this guy, like there is a method to his madness.

And I love the fact that you pull stuff out when you do, like when, when Canada was in the Olympics recently for basketball, you pulled out some of those Canada pieces too.

Like yeah some of this timing is just impeccable and the pieces that you have never cease to blow me away it's just insane well thank you first of all and but that's that's a big part of being on instagram and being able to share that too and and even indirectly not you know kind of like educating but sharing in that way like to grow that passion i think is important because you know even going back to example about buying autographs wingman

things like that or fake jerseys there's a lot of people that don't know right and that's kind of part of what i want to do is kind of grow that passion to rep our team you know and keep going well it's the education part too that i love as well i think you know it's not about just posting the rarest stuff and i like i know people like to just you know show people that they have stuff that no one else has which is always a

great feeling too but i like the fact that you're educating you know what i mean like that, that stuff, you know, the Canada stuff. You know, the, even you're posting grizzly stuff, all the Raptor stuff that you post to, you know, there's, Kids out there like Trev was when, you know, when he was growing up, you know, that has no idea about, you know, a lot of this stuff that was out there. Trev's only 23. Let's not forget that, dude.

He reminds us of that every 30 minutes. The Brunson jersey. Actually, the Brunson jersey that you pulled out. Oh. That was a piece. I was like, you know, and I was telling my buddy about that just the other day when I went to the game with him. I'm like, you know, like he's just pulling out these like rare, rare pieces.

And it's just yeah i love to see it yeah i got a lot of messages about a lot of people didn't know that was his dad yeah yeah he played for us three games he played three games for us if i'm not mistaken that's crazy yeah and the fact that you have that have that shit right well once that's wild once again the kev said though i think the history piece and i think in anything right like if you're gonna collect or you know be into something and i mean we get fads and stuff so

do it just because it's popular, but it's always nice when you get people who do it but also can give you the history. Even for yourself, even this conversation has been great. Just like the jersey, Vince Carter, some of the lessons that you've given us and some of the information we may not have known. This is the best part of shit like this I love because in terms of jerseys, I don't know everything. We wore a lot of fucking jerseys in high school. That's all we wore.

But to go a layer deep in it, this is great.

Like informative and you know i think as individuals when we get into stuff just be keeping an open mind and and taking taking game man you know what i mean that's what it's about yeah because we don't know everything you know so i totally agree rich and i and i'm and i'm always learning too right like you have to be a student of the game facts right to get better at the game facts and always learning having that mindset to say i don't know everything and keeping an open mind

to say i'm willing to just continue to learn and learn and learn and then pay that forward as well you know what I mean take it to God and then you know school the next person coming so you know appreciate you and everything you're doing with that because I love these conversations just because a lot of it like shit goes over my head sometimes just like i didn't know that yeah i appreciate you rich thanks for that thanks for that feedback yeah man the swimman jerseys were heavy we was killing

the swimman jerseys back in the day so even like for you to say just in terms of the value with having authentic as opposed to the swingman just stuff like that to me like that speaks to me because it's like these are things i didn't know you know what i mean so appreciate you and your craft and what you do man so gotta respect it yeah no thanks again man like there There are levels to this. Levels to this shit. I tell people all the time. I love swing men. When Nike first put them out.

Yo, heavy hitters. Everybody. And they mother was wearing those. They were pretty cool. Yeah, for the price too, they were pretty darn good. And then with just the stitch aspect, right? Because we're from champion jerseys where you can give those a couple washes. That fucking number. This is 12. It's a two now. The names are rubbing up.

It just peels off. so when the swing bands came and you got the stitch look it was like fuck like this is amazing you know so we were just sold on it so even in that time you know where jerseys came from where they came from to where they are now it's just such a great thing to see you know they were good in between they were good in between of authentic versus those champion replicas and then Mitchell and S came on the scene and Mitchell and S was a big thing too OG Mitchell and

S was sick we was going to New York City for the Mitchell and S jersey, we was out there doing that so it just yeah it's just that's why I say for you it's just it takes me back to that time right because as you know we had that era of jerseys you know basketball football jerseys baseball as well we was wearing and we weren't walking fake shit you know what I'm saying like no we wanted the real shit

So those people are going to the games. And as you said, there are people who can't maybe afford it or don't know. But for you who know, don't be going to games and saying you're supporting your team with a fake fucking jersey. I'm sorry. Can't co-sign that. Cannot co-sign that. I don't know if you've seen Kai, but Fanatics has actually put out now jerseys. Like, so they do, I don't want to call it a replica, but it's like a cheaper takedown version of what Nike produces.

So if a Nike jersey is 140 or 150, canadian something like that for a jersey the takedown one from fanatics is like 100 bucks or 80 bucks or something like that so the same jersey like it's licensed by the nba and everything but it's like a cheaper version of that if you can pay that 60 dollars bro but to the point of if you can't afford something like that is a very reasonable option instead of buying a fake i would right if I'm a diehard fan bro I'm paying that $60.

Sorry I agree I'm with you and I get your point you know you get some people who rationalize it to say well it's this nah if I'm a fan I'm paying the money just what it is I'm paying the money I'm not doing takedown versions the fuck, I'm with you but to the point that you don't need to buy a fake, Right, right. Well, there you go. Yeah, speaking to that, definitely. There are other alternatives.

There are other alternatives that are cheaper or probably the same price as buying something that's fake. Yeah, I agree with that. Now, the way I wanted to close this out was I think I mentioned this, but when we went to the game, I made an Instagram post with a couple pictures from the game and I captioned it Dear Vince and did it like a letter. So I was thinking that we could close it out and do a Dear Vince from all of us.

And i i'm happy to go first because i have mine written down from an instagram post a month ago.

If you guys want to take a second to think about some points we can take a couple minutes if you need to but i i can speak mine i've got it up and ready to go so this is this is on my instagram everyone can go read it but i'm just going to read out what i wrote so just took a couple pictures to have a video i think you took kev of the banner going up into the rafters and all that kind of stuff but dear vince finally this day has come where you get to be honored the way you deserve.

Raptors basketball was put on the map when you arrived in Toronto. For the first time in a long time, it was cool to be a Raptors fan. The impact that you had on everyone in this city and country can never be forgotten. You inspired thousands of people to pick up a basketball and fall in love with this game. I was one of those kids, and despite at the time that it wasn't cool to watch basketball or cheer for the Raptors, I remember us being called the Crafters in that day, and that was no fun.

You spawned a love that has continued 25 years later and will continue on forever. Thank you for inspiring us and congratulations on taking your rightful place in the Raptors. I will forever on be looking forward to seeing that number in the Raptors. Signed, an inspired fan slash forever supporter. Well said, Trevor. I don't know if I can top that. I was just going to say, I don't know if I can top that.

All I'm going to say is when I wrote that, my fiance the next morning was like, really, you wrote a love letter to this guy? Your upcoming speech better be better than that. I said high expectations for myself. Yeah. She's like, if you're writing your vows, it better sound something like that. You know, that was, that was deep, man. No, that was deep, Trevor. That was deep. I don't know if I can talk that, but I mean, like.

Yeah, just, I mean, if I were to ever meet Vince, my dear Vince would just be definitely the inspiration that he had, you know, for the country. I think it was one of those things where I appreciate, you know, what he did for the city, what he did for the youth in the city, how he helped to grow basketball, just the countless amount of games of entertainment that he provided.

Even if you weren't a hardcore Raptors fan, if you were a basketball fan and you love basketball, he made it fun to watch Raptors basketball where it wasn't fun to watch Raptors basketball previously. So, you know, Vince, I just wanted to say, you know, like he's very well deserving to have your jersey up there, to have, you know, someone that we looked up to when we were growing as a team and growing as a city and just to have a footing in the NBA with the accomplishments that you had.

You know, we were very privileged to see a lot of firsts when he was there.

That dunk competition, I think, just sparked everything off. you know I can remember and I think a lot of people remember a lot of fans remember where they were when that dunk competition happened him wearing the Toronto proudly across his chest and then doing that dunk or you know just doing the dunks that he did and just blowing everyone away and that was just you know a part of a lot of the stuff that he did as a basketball you know icon in the city so thank

you very much for everything that you've done and we will continue to honor your accomplishments. That's really well said, too. Oh, yeah. Good stuff. I'll go next. We'll let Kai cap it out. Yeah, that's a lot of pressure, dude. For me, I'm just going to keep it literally short and sweet, man. Just because the memory for me just resonates through so much. And it's pretty much just like, yeah, dear Vince, you had a kid living in NY rocking a Toronto jersey with pride.

So congrats to you and all your accomplishments. like Kev said that dunk contest, further solidified what you were to this game so appreciate you and never had any hate for you regardless of everything that transpired man nothing but love and salute to the guy man half man half amazing that was good too Rich Jesus. You may just have to end it right now I just let my collection do the talking I can't get away with that no I gotta say something right so alright Now, I did do that video for him.

I was going to take some of that, but I won't. Just on the top of my mind, I'd be like, hey, Vince, thank you for being you. And when I say that, I mean, thank you for being not perfect, not having a perfect run, not having a Cinderella story. And I think that can inspire a lot of people as well to have you go through what you did, starting out with us and then having a not so great ending, but then again, persevering through that with the resilience that you've shown playing,

you know, 20 years, I think is really special. And I think. People of all ages can draw upon that to say, hey, listen, look at his journey. Look at what you did, what you accomplished still with some of the scrutiny, with some of the bumps in the road and still achieve such a high level being the Basketball Hall of Fame and eventually bridging that gap and reconnecting with the team that started it all. And that continues to love you for everything that you did for the city and

for the country. So thank you, Vince. There you go. Oh, well said. See? See? No pressure. Y'all motivated me. There we go. Yeah. I wish it was dope. We will definitely post the links to the videos we talked about because the NBA XL one should be out by the time this is out in the next four or five days. It should be. Yeah. If it's not, we'll post it again. If it's not out on the Monday, I'm sure it'll be out shortly thereafter.

So we'll post a link to that. We'll also post a link to the TSN video that you were in. If anyone wants to check that out as well, I know it may not have circulated the same way it would have in Canada. Cause I know it was on kind of all of our news channels and all of our sports channels up here as well. So we'll post that with the, with the YouTube link or we'll post it on our stories. You guys can go back and look at it. But Kai, thank you so much for joining us for this.

You know how much we love the Raptors and there's anything Raptors based.

It's you always got to be on these episodes yeah thank you very much uh you know it's always fun to be here so even though i don't get to talk about shoes that much but yeah i'm good with that that's okay i'm happy to hear about your collection me too i'm always happy to hear about your collection so you know as much as we love sneakers i love seeing the stuff that you pull out so again to you like continue to do what you do

post those gems and continue to educate man i just love the shit that you do, man. Yeah, no, I can't thank you guys enough, you know, and that's important for me to hear like that type of feedback to know that what I am sharing is, you know, valuable to certain people and that they find it interesting and that they're learning too. And again, just growing the passion. So it's great. It's great to hear. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

All right. As always, you can find us on Instagram at InKicksWeTrust. Make sure to use the hashtag InKicksWeTrust for a potential feature. And if you are listening to us on your favorite podcast streaming platform, please make sure to like, subscribe, give us five stars, leave a rating. Whatever is available on your podcast streaming platform. That way, you know, when we have new episodes dropping every Monday.

And you can find me on instagram at trevsky 63 kev where can they find you you can also find me on instagram kevin k man rich where can they find you you can find me on ig bro status 13 and kai where can they find you i'm on ig sexy beast with an 8 instead of an e on the first e you can see all of his collection on there there's a ton of good stuff so if you aren't already following kai and you're going to go follow him please make sure you go scroll a little bit because

there is a ton of gems all over his page thank you thank you thank you, guys everyone stay safe and be well we will see you all day. Music.