Strength in Learning featuring Kat Cole, President and COO of Athletic Greens

and I'm obsessed with it. I know you've talked about it a lot. I'm excited to try it. I've never tried it. I'm a big green juicer about i haven't tried it. Yeah, these are the best tasting ones, and they really they just make a big difference in how you feel. But I'm really excited to talk to Cat Cole, who is the president and CEO of A g One, because not just because I love the greens, because she has such a fascinating story. I did an Instagram live with her on her channel and I was just so

impressed by what a powerhouse she is. Yeah, I've read her bio and we have a couple of friends in common And I didn't realize when you first suggested her as a guess that it was the same woman, because I know her in the context of Focus Brands, when she was the president of Cinnabon, and I mean, I just have a funny story about that, but she, you know, said sent me a bunch of Cinnabons is really the long and short of that story, And so I didn't

realize it was the same person. So it's just super interesting to think of her as a brand builder of this powerhouse of a woman and just kind of a cool human And she seems like she's got a walk going on and a lot to teach us. Yeah, she's really cool. All right, Well, here's our conversation with Cat Cole. Hey, Cat, how are you? I'm great? How are you good? Meet my co host on, Julie Hi and Jelis Hi. How are you excellent? How are you? Cat? We have actually

not met before, but we've sort of met. Do you remember how I feel like we've sort of met. When I saw your name, was like, did we meet through mos? Oh? Maybe we did meet through moj okay, but we met. I'm gonna tell the story really quick, which is or my my fondest memory of you. I think we might have met through like Summit moj you know, all those folks.

But then when you were at Focused Brands, there was a day where I got a random email out of the blue from you and Nicole are mutual friend Nicole um saying semi or address, where will you be in the next hour? We're sending you something from me and Cat And I was like, who's Cat? Like, just trust us wait home for this delivery. And the next thing I knew my doorbell rings and it was piping hot cinnabons. That's me, the whole thing, and it was like an

obnoxious amount of cinnamons. Like I was like, you guys are saying it was so funny, and I was like, who is this delightful woman? I need to know her, And now here you are on our podcast. So thank you for that unexpected delivery. And I love the complete hard left you've made into podic Greens. Yeah, it was

a very funny day. I do remember that, yes, And I also, you know, I love to start these chats with either me talking about what our guest is doing, or I've been just asking people to introduce themselves and tell us what you're doing, because you have the most eclectic resume I've seen in a long time. So tell

us right right now. You're You're the CEO of my most favorite important you know, part of my health routine, which is Athletic Greens, which not only has changed my life, but everyone I talked to, you know, I couldn't believe it. I went out with Caroline Evertson last night, who is this powerhouse woman, and she's like, like, you look great. Let's guess what I'm doing. And I'm like, this is

like ridiculous, So tell everyone who you are. So it's not the Cinnabons, Yeah, no longer the Centa Bons, formerly

the Artists, formerly known as Cinnamon Lady. Um. I am currently the president, CEO, and board member of Athletic Greens, the company behind the Foundational Nutrition drink a g one that you were just talking about that is literally comprehensive foundational nutrition, nutrients and gut health and unbelievable combination of seventy insanely high quality ingredients that work together to do

pretty awesome things for your gut and body. Um. And I was advising that company, I guess starting April of one and by December of twenty one I had joined formally. I mean it was just that amazing of an opportunity and company and products. So that's the main gig. I sit on a handful of boards for venture backed and private equity sponsored companies. I'm a mom of two toddlers.

I'm an angel investor in over seventy early stage companies split pretty evenly between consumer tech SMB tech and consumer products so food, beverage, wellness, etcetera. UM and I have basically built a career out of building brands and teams around the world, just in various industries. And so that's that's the current jam. Put the first jam on your on your amazing resume is you started your career as a hostess for Hooters and then working your way up

to vice president. So you know, like someone like me that kind of doesn't read every word because that's the way I read. I'm like, Okay, we've got Hooters, We've got Cinnabon, there's Burger came thrown in. Talk about now where at Athletic Greens are a g one? So I'm like, what is the red thread here? Take us on this journey? I see no, but I see the thread. I see the thread that it doesn't matter what the brand is, it matters that you're an amazing leader and blah blah blah.

But talk about what it was like being a hostess for Hooters and how you broke out of that to become the vice president. It was so much fun. I mean I I started working when I was fifteen in malls because you couldn't even work legally in restaurants as a fifteen year old. But I was the child of a single parent, my mom and two sisters, and I left my dad when I was nine years old. We were incredibly poor. She had to work multiple jobs. She fed us on a food budget of ten dollars a

week for three years and all that. All that was such a gift in many ways, but it led to me needing to have a job as soon as I legally could. And so I worked in malls selling clothes at an old store that is no longer around called the body Shop, not the bath products company, but clothing company. And I sold clothes and I set sales records as a sixteen year old because I just loved helping people. And so when I was working as a salesperson in

the malls at the body shop. Now sixteen years old and just paying for my expenses, right car insurance, saving up for college. No one on either side of my family had ever gone to college. Um, and I intended to be and became the first person to get into college. So I had to save up for all these things. There was no money, um, and debt for school didn't even seem like an option. And and so I was recruited to be a Hooters girl, but I was too young,

So I became a Hooters hostess. Literally, there were Hooters girls who went into the mall, went to women's retail stores with a card with an owl on it that said official Hooters recruiter card. And they would come in and UM say like, Wow, you're great at sales, and you seem like you would fit with our concept. We'd love for you to come in and have a meal and apply. And I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida, where Hooters. Um, it was the third city Hooters was ever in, and

it was just no big deal. I mean, it's it's the beach, it's Florida. There's a lot of people that don't wear very much in the summer. It was around. Since I was little. We went there after football games and baseball games on Saturdays and UM, so it didn't have the controversy you know, to me inside the city that I would later learn it did pretty much everywhere else UM. And so it was really cool to be recruited to go there, and so I went. I applied. I was of age to be a hostess, So I

became a hostess. And so I had three jobs. I still worked in the malls, I clean gym equipment, UM, and I became a hostess. And the long story of how I went from hostess to vice president was, I, you know, essentially an intersection of curiosity. I wanted to work every job in the business. I needed money, and so the more positions I could work, the more shifts I had access to. So I wasn't just a hostess. As soon as I turned eighteen, I became a waitress.

Then I learned how to be a bartender and a cook and a shift leader. There's always someone who wants our needs to go home, and that gave me the optimal number of shifts and the optimal amount of income potential, and I just loved it. I thought it was cool to fry chicken wings. I thought it was cool to poor beer. I mean that it was I was young. It was fun. It was helping me make all the

money that I needed for my living expenses. Of course, I moved out on my own as soon as I was eighteen and save for college all on my own, and that felt fancy. It felt liberating to not need to rely on anyone else. And then there was an intersection of those experiences knowing how to essentially run a restaurant because I've worked every job in the business, and the growth trajectory of the company. Hooters was growing rapidly at the time domestically and internationally, but it was relatively

nascent and its international expansion. And so when I was nineteen now fully in college solely working at Hooters, no more side jobs, because I was picking up so many shifts there. It met all of my income needs. And then some um the company called the corporate office and said, we're opening restaurants around the world. The next one we're

opening is in Sydney, Australia. We're looking to put together a team of employees who can go be trainers and helped launch the franchise UH in Australia, and my general manager recommended me, and so I said yes the opportunity. I did not have a passport. I had never been on a plane. I'd only been out of Florida twice in my life for cheerleanding competitions. But I still said yes on the phone and then hung up and was like, oh, ship, I need a passport. And so I bought my first

plane ticket to Miami. It in line, got my passport expedited, and then a few weeks later left for Sydney and helped launch the franchise. And the short version of what happened is it kept happening over and over, new country, new opportunity. I was the person chosen to go. After three openings and three different countries. I was then asked to lead these teams. No longer beat on these teams as you were mid twenties, right, You're you're nineteen doing

all that? Holy wo. I was still nineteen and I had just turned I just turned twenty. I had just turned twenty. UM when I did my second um NO, my third global opening, and when I started leading, I was nineteen when I opened Sydney, Australia, was nineteen when I opened Mexico City, first one in Central America, and I was nineteen, just about to turn twenty when I opened the first one in South America, Buenos Aires and UM in Argentina, and then started leading the openings from there.

And by that time I was failing college because I was traveling for forty days at a time to each country to launch these businesses UM and there weren't the Internet options to make up classes and participate then, and so I dropped out of college when I was twenty, didn't even finish my second year, and about two months later, I was offered a corporate job opportunity to move to Atlanta and oversee all corporate employee training at the corporate office and so for half the pay that I made

as a Hooters girl UH and no cash, learning how to live off of paycheck with taxes fully taken out in advance, which was an interesting transition for me as an unsophisticated UH personal income manager. I thought it was just an amazing opportunity to, you know, continue to break out of my background and do something that was more sophisticated and learning was my currency, and it was a great opportunity to learn, So I moved to Atlanta, UH led the emloyee training work at the parent company, and

then as the company grew, I grew. Every two years I took on a larger job, and by the time I was twenty six, I was one of the vice presidents of the company when we were doing a hundred million in revenue global business, fully vertically integrated. And I remained an executive for six years growing that business and had an amazing opportunities, And in total, it was around fourteen and a half years that I was there. Wow,

that is mind boggling. What an incredible journey. Just if that had been your entire career, that's an extraordinary story. But then you went on to take your next opportunity and tell us about that, and you were twenty six at your next opportunities like you were right when you left, you were twenty six because I was, so I stayed as an executive for six years, just under from the time I became a VP at Hooters. So I was an executive at Hooters from to thirty one. I did

go back to school. I have Masters without a bachelor's um.

Nights and weekends and it's rare but possible. And I was then recruited by private equity firms and other hospitality companies, and I ended up taking an opportunity to become the president of Cinnabon as a part of Focused Brands, a parent company that at the time only had Shlatsky's Carvel, Cinnabon, and Mos but would later after I joined a choir many more and was owned by Rourke Capital, large private equity firm out of Atlanta, and so I was already

in Atlanta because of Hooters, Focus Brands and Rourke were in Atlanta. So I took this role and moved from being VP at Hooters to president at Sentabon UH and then work to turn that brand around out of the recession. It was December. It was October of two thousand ten when I started, December of two thousand ten when I graduated with my m b A. And then January of

two thousand eleven um when I became presidents. I was hired a CEO and then three months later became president and then turned the business around and lead the business and the team to really special industry leading outcomes, multi channel growth, huge multi billion dollar CpG business growth for

the franchisees turning around the core business. And it was such a powerful playbook that I then took on a role at the parent company to be a group president and launched the Licensing, Consumer Products, and e Commerce division to help all of our brands enter non traditional revenue channels and retail channels. Well, speaking of non traditional, I mean, everything you've done is non traditional in this traditional world.

It's kind of amazing. And you know, this podcast is so much about the important things, so I'm just trying to follow. Like when you were like, did you eat cinnabonns? I did? I did? I have? I have grown up. I grew up with a series Suite two and working in malls. Of course, I fell in love with mall brands, so I loved anti Ans, which became one of our portfolio companies on Monday. Um, don't don't Bobby, don't judge. I know it was I don't even know what an

anti Ann's is. I know from my daughter and now my daughter wanted when we were at the Rangers game and Jersey and uh, they had an anti Ans and that was the only thing that was really humpting. And I took a few bites of her pretzels, like it was worth every calorie. I was really happy with the decision.

It was so good. Um, you know, for for me one all the the brands that I ran, eventually became president CEO of the parent company, so it was Mos and Sholotsky's and Carvel and Jomba, and helped acquire those brands and leave those brands and um, even though it seemed non traditional. And then and then my investing activity, which many people are like, wait, where did that come from? That doesn't make sense to come from someone who runs these mass market commercial brands to be an early stage

venture investor. And then much of which in the early days was in health and wellness which people didn't know. That then made the connection. And eventual, you know, work with athletic greens quite an obvious thing to me, but maybe not to the outside. Um. My currency is learning,

that's it. Um. And even in focus brands, and in looking back at Hooters, there were career paths I could have taken that would have been far more comfortable, like logical projection progression in a particular vertical and then I would just hit a point where I thought one. I don't want this to be my whole story. I want to learn. I am comfortable being the least knowledgeable person in a role or in a function, and that is

required for someone who says learning is my currency. By definition, if something is going to provide learning, it is new. By definition of being new, you ain't going to be that good at it. By definition of not being very good at it, You're gonna have a lot of embarrassing moments. You're gonna have a lot of I had a lot of moments where I needed help, um, but I got used to it. I appreciated that it was just the beginning of what learning feels like. And then once I

got to a point it changed. Yeah, I so resonated curtically. I get it. No, I always say that I love doing something I have no idea how to do, Like that's what moves me. You know, I you know for sure. But I just remember that. I once spent a weekend. I was hired by Focused Groups to spend a weekend with their female executives in a hotel in New York City, and I remember spending most of my time trying to change each of the brands into a more healthy version,

so it could help people. And I'm not sure what. You know, they paid me a lot of money for it, but I'm not sure if I was able to get, you know, anything. But you know, most of most of the women were talking about that they do believe in a healthier way of living and that they were just felt kind of stuck trying to change the culture where

they were. Yeah. I remember in all the roles, including Hooters, there were moments where I had to decide what mattered to me in terms of impact, and could I go start my own thing that was perfectly healthy and the future version, you know, something built for the future of

these industries and consumers. Sure, but at that point I realized that doing that would impact two people, two hundred people, And I decided that being inside a big machine and having the courage to turn it ten degrees or fifteen degrees in a more positive direction, impacting millions of people and hundreds of thousands of them eployees, was the type of impact I was excited about, because I thought, if I'm not here someone who cares about the future, someone

who cares about better choices for people, for planet, for body, what happens when someone who doesn't give a ship is running these companies. And I won't be here forever because eventually my definition of impact is going to move to I want all the things. I want scale and what's best, and that that is possible. But I remember decisions at Sentibon where there were opportunities to use artificial sweetener instead of real sugar, and I'm like, both are bad. One

is more bad. And so what we need to do is just be honest about what we are so people make more informed choices. We're gonna call ourselves an indulgence, We're gonna launch smaller portions. We're going to protect actual, real sugar um And and that was a choice and honoring what that brand was about at the same time acquiring John but taking a public company private, realizing it had so missed the boat in terms of the evolution of smoothies and bowls with less sugar, more greens, plant

based alternatives, and therein lie the opportunity. And so did I desperately want to flip a switch and have it turned into pressed juicery? Yes? Was that going to happen? No, it's not right for that brand. It would break the economic model, given where are the eight hundred or seven

hundred locations were. But could we radically reduce the sugar, improve plant based alternatives, move it to a place that was moving far faster toward where the world had moved, but still being relevant, irrelevant price point for the average consumer. That we could do, and that fired me up where I'm like, I'm going to make what is drifted away with an incredible team, we are going to make it so much better in a way that the customers will believe.

Because if I had flipped a switch and made a press juice right, nobody's gonna believe it anyway, right, and the business would go down. And the business will go down because the margins can't handle it. The franchise is the locations weren't suitable for that price point. Right, You've got to pivot something at a pace the business can handle financially and culturally and at a rate that the customer can believe. And money can help accelerate those two things,

but not on its own. And so I relished those challenges. But at the same time was Angel investing in those early stage true wellness companies, in those built for future companies, And so I could kind of like feed my soul in those areas in the background without completely leaving the opportunity to make big things a little better at scale.

And eventually I was like, oh, I found this great middle ground called growth stage, where it's big enough to have scale and impact and be worth my capabilities and energy, but early enough and square like dead center for what I believe in from whether it's a wellness or ways of working or cultural element where I don't have to sacrifice one for the other. Someone that grew up eating

sugar and loving sinnabons. And now you're at this epic you know, health company vitality like plus you could call it what do you personally do? Like like what is you know, what's your normal diet? Like what what do you believe in? What works for you? So I I have definitely been on a journey toward more healthful and clean eating and options for many years, even when I was at Focus Brands, And so that was driven by

a few things. One my own education of what goes on in our bodies when we eat certain things, you know, research being more abundant, great media coverage about research and options, and so I was on my own journey, you know, as a woman as a consumer, eventually as a mom. I had my first child at thirty nine, my second

at forty one. UM, and and so, like many, I started reducing sugar, paying attention to carbohydrates, especially non organic carbohydrates, leaning more toward organic, focusing on pesticide free whether it was named organic or not, and so just starting to let what I learned not just color my thinking, but affect my actions and what I purchased and what I

put in my body. And then noticing the difference over time, and then I got just got curious and decided, I'm not only going to leave my decision making to be altered by what happens to make it to me in terms of media, I am going to follow the rabbit trail of research. And I started doing my own research around sugar, around carbs, around plants versus read meat, around you know, this journey that many people are on, and I became obsessed with the consumer continuum, the continuum that

people are on. UM, no judgment of where you start your journey, as long as we're on a journey. And UM, what's beautiful is that when we can't unlearn important ship, you don't unlearn it. Like you don't unlearn it. The question is how quickly can we have it affect our bodies and our choices. And so my diet changed and I leaned more toward um, probably a sloppy version of intermittent fasting, not an absolute version, but the I don't really eat past seven or seven thirty PM, and I

don't have a meal until ten am. What do you eat attend? Then what's the first thing you put in your mouth? Well, first thing in the morning is a g one And so that is not breaking my fast unless you're an absolutist, and anything with one calorie breaks it, but there aren't. But it is breaking for people that intermittent fast. That's breaking your fats that truly do it. But I'm not an intermittent faster. So call it calorie restriction,

calorie timing that community. And because it's fifty calories and there are no fats and there's no insulin response, I'm staying in a state of ketosis. And so by that definition, it doesn't break that, it doesn't take me out of a state of ketosis, and so I'm able to lean into that. Then it around ten I'll do my bulletproof coffee the you know the old school term, but essentially butter and oil and collagen protein. You put butter in your coffee. Yeah, and it's that good. Huh. I tried it.

I couldn't do it. I do um. I sometimes will mix in GhIE if I'm looking to just overall continue to reduce the dairy for the week, Like if I've had a lot of cheese or yogurt or kind of broken that staple that's the other thing I've leaned into overtime, then I'll reduce that in every way that I can, because I can feel it in my gut if I if I break my rules, I can feel it in my I can feel a little bit of bloating or

digestive changes. And so it's a g one possibly a coffee before that, that one with fats and collagen protein in it, eggs, avocado or um plant based protein, smoothing with all kinds of good stuff in it. And so that's it in that early morning. And then I'm eating again sometime around too, like one or two, and that's when it's going to be salmon chicken salad. You know, that is my most colorful meal, is that two o'clock sort of liner as we call it, part lunch and

part dinner. And you're at home right because you're you are yes, which will get yeah. The whole company's remote has been from day one. And then when I travel, I do my best. We'll just say that I do my best. Um. I keep an extra travel pack of a g one if I feel like my best option is going to be getting a grilled chicken breast somewhere and I'm not going to be able to get in other nutrients. Um, And I just do an extra one when I'm traveling anyway for a little bit of nutritional insurance.

And then dinner, my husband typically makes dinner. I do not cook. I am not a cook. I do not cook. I scrambled eggs. I caught avocados. That is the extent of my culinary excellence. Um. And the few times I've tried, my husband's like, let me give me good at everything. And and then he'll typically make a dinner like, um, could be an all veggie dish a few nights a week.

It's a beautiful steak from a farm that we get direct to consumer, and UM, some sweet potatoes or something in that mean, very simple simple salt and pepper type meals, but absolutely delicious, and the kids eat the same thing as us. And dessert, yeah, let's talk to dessert. No dessert, And what about alcohol? Barely? Barely? And that's been a big shift over the years. Of course, in my twenties, I loved a good time like anyone else. And in my thirties, um loved a good time, loved glass of

wine to two glasses of wine. But as I've gotten older, as I've learned more about alcohol's effect on the body, it's been less and less and less and less. Um. I mean, there will be weeks where there's zero alcohol. It's great, Yeah, I go, I go days and then sometimes there's a glass of wine, two glasses of wine. Anything more than that, I actually just get full. Like it's not even about getting like, oh I feel tipsy, it's just like my stomach, my body, the sugar from alcohol,

that's what I feel more. And then I'm like, oh, I can't MoMA needs to go to bed. And then I have to take a cbdego me and some other supplements to help offset the negative effects of alcohol so I don't feel like absolute crap after two glasses of wine. Mhm. Okay, I'm going to shift gearson, because you mentioned your husband and I was reading somewhere that you have this really interesting practice with him of a monthly check in which

I loved, love loved. Can you tell us more about that? Yes, So when we first met, we met had a one night stand, so we thought uh, and proposed each other within two weeks. And interestingly, we had both been out of long term relationships recently. I was out of an eleven year relationship, not married, but might as well have been. I was out of that relationship for six months when I met my husband, and he was out of his

eight year relationship for about a year. Needless to say, neither of us were looking for a long term relationship. I thought I was going to have a lover on every continent given my global business um, and that felt very exciting to be um. My husband had his own visions of what his next few years would look that also did not include a steady, single partner, and but

that was all changed when we met. And so here we are, we meet, we have one night standard, proposed to each other within two weeks, and it became apparent that this was it, Like you're my person. He's my person. And so we had several conversations about what we learned from our previous long term relationships, what our role was in, what parts we didn't like, what we learned about ourselves, and how we had changed over time, and we just said, I want to We both realized now we want to

be better at home than we are at work. I had never said that before. The thought had never entered my mind. It's not that I didn't want to be have a great relationship, but I had never consciously said I actually want to be better at home than at work. In fact, subconsciously, I likely believed very much the opposite. And so we talked about it and we said, okay, if we both naturally are coming to this place in our lives, we want to be better at home and

at work. How does one do that? And we said, well, what can we learn about what helps us be good at work? In business? What are the practices? What are the things that help you learn and develop and grow and stay close as the business changes and as you change.

And so we realized that one of those practices was some methodology of regularly checking in and giving feedback and receiving feedback, so that little things didn't become big things, so that what mattered to someone could be celebrated, and not leaving it to the whims of a moment to be addressed, but protecting a place. So he had heard about a couple that UM celebrated their month a versary for decades, no matter where they were in the world.

They had champagne or a cup of tea or a cup of coffee, And so we agreed that we would hold the space of a month a versary every month. On the tenth of every month, which is the day that we met. Tattooed on my arm and UM, that would be our time to connect and check in. Then we borrowed versions of questions we had used in different leadership groups, but made them a bit more personal, and we asked each other on the tenth of every month these six questions. I asked him. He answers, then he

asked me the same question. I answer. It might take three minutes. Well, probably the shortest one is ten minutes because we're writing and we're taking notes in between, and some have taken hours because it facilitated deeper discussions. But typically it's around a twenty minute exercise, and the questions are what's been the best part of the last month, the worst part of the last month, and again related

to our relationship. Doesn't have to be something caused by the relationship, but whatever most affects how we show up for each other, best part, the worst part. What's one thing I can do differently to be a better partner? For you? What is worried you the most in the last thirty days. What have you been most grateful for in the last thirty days? And what have you been most proud of? Again, something that is most related to how we show up for each other. That's amazing. Wow, Well,

I that's it. That's intense, and that takes a major commitment. And I've been married thirty three years, and I have learned, you know, things work differently for different people. I have learned not to, you know, to try not to let the words come out of my mouth as I'm feeling something. But you know, soon after, you know, when I can, when I can phrase in a way that's not attacking right then, but I mean a month later, I forget. You know, how's your month good? How's your month good?

All right? What's for dinner? You know? What are the kids? What are the kids? All we do is talk about the kids, what are the kids doing? And now we talk about the dogs. That's such a great call out. What the check in doesn't do is remove the responsibility to talk about something in the moment, and so it's you don't hold it, you don't hold everything for the check in. We have those conversations to your point as soon as we've learned what is the most productive way, Yeah,

to have conversations. But the chicken is about what remains like after a month. What are the highest highs and the lowest lows, and what are the things that stick with us? And the question there are two questions that are most powerful. One is the what is one thing I can do differently to be a better partner for you? Every month? Every month, that's twelve different actions you have to take this year. It's also it's a lot of feedback. Cat I don't know if I can handle that much

feedback from anybody, including my partner. It is, but sometimes we don't always get better, and so sometimes it's not a unique thing every twelve months. Sometimes it's a hey, here's what we talked about last month that you could do differently to be a better partner. And it is my answer again this month. But differently doesn't mean stop. Differently could mean something you you did that I really hope you do more of UM. So it stops, start, continue,

and that's what the differently about. So that's one question that's particularly illuminating and actionable UM and we act on it. I mean, that's the point of the discussion. And it's not just to be heard, right, It's this is literally like feedback. It's like all of the hr like anything I've done on the CPO side of my career. It's like direct feedback in the moment, real time feedback. It's a monthly check ins, you know, to make sure that

everything's going as plans, stop to start, continue. That's a big one for sure. But the idea of applying it to your personal relationship, I think it's so interesting because I've never heard anyone say to do it. And I have to admit, I'm I'm good at giving feedback, I am not great at receiving feedback, and it's something I've had to work on throughout my career to be like

open to it and try not to be defensive. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be if I was getting feedback from my husband of twenty seven years every month, Like I feel like it's mutual that helps, right, you don't get down, you don't ask all the questions and the other persons in the hot seat, you're really sharing this. And that's that other question that's so illuminating is when you look back on the last thirty days, what stands out that has worried you the most? That is a

really it is always a powerful question. And I remember when I had my second miscarriage and we did our check in, and my husband's answer blew my mind because I I suppose that I believed that there was no way it could be as hard on him as it

was on me. And his answer to that question this was a couple of years ago, and I don't remember exactly what it was, but it made it very clear that he was devastated, grieving, feeling a degree of um immobility through this moment that our day to day interactions had not revealed. And it forced me to honor that

in that moment. And and of course he didn't want to his words, I didn't want to bug you with my extra feelings while you're grieving too, like while you're dealing with this and so this like back to this podcast the important things, you know what matters. We made the choice that we matter most, and therefore only actions will truly make that and honest statement. And those actions are staying close to each other as we evolve like vines creating. Yes we're individuals. Yes we're going to grow

in different directions. We're both on a journey. We're discoverers, were learners, but we have to create forcing moments to come back together and really get the most out of those moments. And that question of what's worried you the most, um because you just don't go around talking about that every day. It's eap cad. I feel like you've just changed the course of my relationship for the next twenty

years by giving this very generous exercise. I'm going to make my husband do this, not mine, and I'm not doing this but now I'm not doing this. No, no, no, I'm not doing now now. And I'm very close to

my husb. No, I know you are. I'm gonna but I know just what you're talking about, like even the miscarriage, but we went through that too, and we didn't talk about it in the same way because I think my husband was so focused on holding space for me and my grieving, and it wasn't until I got pregnant held it had our daughter who's now twelve. But after that then it sort of came out in time of how

hard it was for him to go through that. And I never allowed that conversation because it just didn't even occur to me. I mean, similar to what you're describing, And I think an exercise like this would have saved both of us a lot of pain in that moment of realization so late that he had suffered so much and didn't feel like you could talk about it or whatever. But I think on an ongoing basis, in a future looking basis, I'm going to try to maybe not every month.

I feel like that, maybe like quarterly. Maybe we started like trying. Why don't you try it one? Yeah? It does. I know I might need some alcohol, but but I want to. I want to switch gears to your kids because working at home when you know, when you have young kids, because I always worked at home a couple of days a week, you know what, even when my kids were young. But they're always breaking in, like how do you maintain your professionalism or do you not? Or

do you let them break in? Like how you know it's not easy, No, I mean during the peak peak lockdowns, um, and even parts of one. You know, even our nanny couldn't be here. I couldn't have any help. And so that was yet was running the business. In fact, at the very beginning, was still running Focus Brands restaurants around the world, which were radically affected. I mean, and they're right.

As COVID was hitting, my daughter got incredibly ill and wasn't the I c U for twelve days and not with COVID, but just unbelievable timing, and so I remember having my air pods in, needing to literally lead the company through crisis and manage my daughters wellness and care. And then I ended up getting sick for it was like respiratory viruses that were going around that were not COVID but that we're horrible um. And it was just crazy.

I mean, I can look back and see my true woman power, mom energy um at its peak navigating all of that, and it was just I think I was able to draw in a lot of my experiences as a young leader opening franchises around the world where you just recognize the condition of newness and unfamiliarity. And eOne was in this condition of newness and unfamiliarity, so I did not experience the feeling of worry or shame or what's going to happen if they hear my daughter crying,

or what's going to happen. I was just kind of like, f you, if you don't get it, I've got I know what really matters, and um, I'm somehow finding a way to not totally drop the things that don't matter, and it's going to be okay. Now. Some of that was it's my personality, it's my focus on my daughter who was ill. And also I moved up into a key right senior executive position, so it's easier to have

that mindset when you're in charge. And I never um forgot that and did everything that I could to make sure that that was um extended and believed and felt by every individual on our teams, regardless of how new they were with the company or how much formal authority

or whatever, you know, people management responsibility they had. I think what you and Bobby both said as an example, certainly for me just I mean, Bobby and I have had these conversations, and hearing you speak at it's really empowering, I think to that next generation of worker and leader to see women in your positions and our positions saying these things and really living it and showing it to

be true, that they are balancing many different things. That it's not a perfect science, that it's a pie not you know, not. It's like the different pieces of the pie are different sizes at different times, UM, and that we are all kind of fumbling as we go to but making the best of it and supporting each other in it. And I think it's so important for UM for us to talk openly about this stuff. It's super helpful,

I know for me to hear it. One of the first conversations Bobby and I ever had UMS when I asked her to mentor me, was about how to balance it all and like I was starting a new job, and um, could I ask for a flexibility and that kind of thing? And She's like, you have to ask the question, and I don't. I don't think if she

hadn't prompted me, I never would have done it. And like hearing you, hopefully somebody is listening to this podcast, hearing what you're saying, hearing how you prioritize your time, and now feels like, oh, I can do that. I can ask for that time and for that flexibility or not to have that call early morning, late at night when I have to put my kid to bed. Here's my wine around that. And I use it for myself and I ask it as a question of others. I say,

this is what I need to be successful. This is what I need, the time, the flexibility. And that's not just honoring time in the morning. That is my sacred time with after my a g one and my coffee, but with my kids and my husband because we are morning people and my kids grew up with the smell of coffee and a French press pouring the kettle like that is our time. And yes I make rare exceptions, but they are that is what I need to be successful. I am not asking for someone to bend themselves into

a hutzel. I am saying this is what I need. This is how you get the best of me. And then when I'm working with others, whether it's a new hire or appear or even an advisory role um or an interview, I ask what do you need to be successful? You just answered the last question that we ask everyone, and honestly, uh, it was. It's basically and I ask everyone. According to you cat call, what is the one piece of advice you can give anyone that's listening today that's

going to change the course of their life. So that could be your answer, or you can give them something else. But that is like how I like to close these conversations. Yeah, certainly having that is a statement and a question or a statement that you deserve to ask and answer over time because it changes, and you should ask it of yourself before you of anyone else. The thing I would I would leave folks with is a version of what my mom wrote on my birthday card, and it kind

of sums up all this. We're all on a journey. We have different life needs. We learn over time what matters to us most the most important things, and hopefully we line up actions that back up what we say are the most important things with where we spend our time and who uh is number one and number two and number three in our world. But that's a journey, and it's okay if you look back and go I didn't get that exactly right then, and I want to get it more right now like I did with my relationships.

And the phrase, the version of a phrase that she always wrote was don't forget where you came from, but don't you dare let it solely define you. And my ad is our truth is in our roots, like that's our story, that's who we are. But our past shouldn't be our anchor. Like you have permission to change, I have permission to change, and as long as we stay rooted in the most important things, that change is likely to be incredibly positive over time. How proud of you

is your mom? She is very proud. She Um, you know, stayed with our dad. It was an alcoholic for for many years before she finally decided to leave. And she told me then and has reiterated to me over the years, that her mission. All she wanted once she left UM, which was very difficult on her, All she wanted was three independent girls. That was it. She just didn't want us to have to need any one or anything, no more, no less. That's the bar, UM, and she achieved that.

And UM feels incredibly, incredibly proud to see where we is. You know, three girls have all landed and um, it is my life's mission to continue to make her proud. Well, I'm sure you are. You are incredibly inspiring. It's this is been such a fun conversation and I've learned so much. Thank you so much. Likewise, thank you guys. Mm hmmm mm