The Many Faces of George

they will harm you or kill you. If George would have just let me go outside to cool off with it, then we would probably still be married. All I wanted was five minutes to cry outside alone. This is the piked to massacre Returned to Pike County season four, episode eleven, The Many Faces of George. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katy Studios, along with Stephanie Laidecker and Jeff Shane.

It's important to note that George Wagner the Fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty to all charges. We're picking up where we left off last episode, with Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa examining Tabitha Clayton George Wagner, the fourth's ex wife on the stand. Can you tell us what time of the day this argument first started? And I don't mean any exact time, but was it the afternoon?

Was it the evening? It was near evening? Yeah, it started to get dark, okay. And did you have any more contact with them while you were still there hiding in the George's truck. Did you see any of them? There were flashlights you said. They were flashlights plural, more than one flashlight. Yes. And at this point where were you? I was still underneath the George's truck, okay, under the cab basically okay, grab in the front tires. Did they

find you? Did they eventually give up looking for you? Yes? And what did you do it? At that point? I got out from underneath of the truck and went to the barn and got my bicycle. And you got on your You got your bicycle, you said, And what did you do? I left? I went to the gas station up the road by McDonald's. And can you tell us at that point. Was it dark? Yes, okay? Approximately how far is that to the gas station? Driving? It's about five or ten minutes? And can you tell us why

were you hiding from them? I didn't want to get shot. And did you make it to the gas station? Yes, okay. Did you encounter anybody along the way? Yes? Tell us who George and Jake in their red suburban And what did they say to you? They were trying to get me to get in the car so we could go home. And did you agree to get into the car, What, if anything did you say to them? They told him that I wasn't going to live with film if they're going to hit me? And what happened then? Or did

you tell them where you were going? I taught him that I was going to go to the gas stations so I could call her mom so she can come and get me. And is that what you did? Yes? Here's legal analyst Mike Allen, followed by Stephanie and Jeff. This is key testimony for the prosecution because, unlike so many of the other witnesses, this really kind of centers on George and she sat the prosecutors painting a picture of what kind of a person George was and you know,

according to her, he wasn't a very good person. We've never been able to connect with Tabitha personally, and we've spoken to her mother, we've spoken to her sister, and hearing her accounts firsthand of something that we've we've heard versions of this story of that night when she had to run out of the house, but really hearing it out of her own mouth was something really powerful. He's living in an event that is nothing more and nothing

less than traumatic. Picturing her even just biking away in the night, trying to escape, and then the boys pulling up in that car telling her to get in, you know how trap she must have felt. After the incident that Tabitha described on the stand, the Wagners ended up filing a domestic violence claim against her, claiming that she dragged her baby across the floor. Now they later dropped

these charges. Tabitha and George were married, therefore, George had automatic rights in the state of Ohio because they were married, so she literally had to write her rights away and did whether she knew what she was signing or not. It was around the same time that Tabitha was becoming close with victim hannahme Rodin, who as we know, was having similar custody issues with her ex boyfriend Jake Wagner. Tabitha ran through some of the Facebook messages she and

Hannah had shared at the time. She begins by counting an exchange about being able to share her son with George Wagner. Hannah Rodin asked me if I've gotten to see lately. I said, no, not yet. Every time my set a day to see him, George has something to do or somewhere to go. He tells me he will message me back when he gets home, but then he never messages me back. Hannah says, oh, I wouldn't be really upset. I would say I'm scared to death that they are going to try and take I said, all

I am, and it kills me. Well, you know, since y'all was not married, she goes to you automatically, and he is the one that gets to see her every other weekend or whatever. Hannah says, yeah, I know, but they could fight that. I said, yeah, but a judge ain't gonna take her away from you. You have a good home and people to help take care of her.

She says, I know, I'm trying to get me a place as soon as possible in a job, I said, I mean, if George would have just let me go outside to cool off of that, then we would probably still be married. All I wanted was five minutes to cry outside alone. Then there was an incident in twenty sixteen, right before the murders, during a visit with her son at the Wagner's, Tabitha's newborn daughter was seemingly poisoned. Was there another time that something happened after you had visited

your son at the Wagner residence? Yes? And can you tell us do you recall when that would have been? Was around mos Day or Easter? And what year would that have been? Recall two and sixteen? And can you tell us what happened? My six month little daughter became unresponsive, so we took her to the emergency room where they did tests and found the jugs in her system. Tell me, first of all, this was a child of horse. Yes, she was six months old at the time. Yes. And

had she been with you at the Wagner residence that day? Yes? And tell us what kinds of interactions she had with the other people in the home she had stayed on my hip for a while until Angela had asked to see her, and so I gave her to rosts so she could see her while I went and use to the restroom. Other than that time period where you win the restroom? Was your daughter out of your view while

you were at the blackness? And did you make get back home before you noticed that about your daughter as far as her physical condition, yeah, I had made it home, okay. And when you say she was unresponsive, what do you mean by that? She was just laying there staring out into space. I went to pick her up and she was as limber as a new one. And what did you do as a result of that? I had worked my husband and we took it in the emergency room, okay. And Drewy Hall where you went the SMC and you

indicated that they did some tests. And do you know what driveway found in her system? Zan X? Were you prescribed xanax your husband? No? Do you have any xanax in your home at all? And have you been anywhere else that day? No? And as a result of that, was there a children this investigation? Yes? Okay? And did both you and your husband submit to tests? We did, but they did not do them at the hospital, okay.

Did you volunteer to do them at the hospital, yes, but you did take tests later about a week later, okay? And were those negative? Yes. It was all very shocking testimony for the prosecution, showing that George might have had violent tendencies and was also tightly bound to his family. But the defense mounted a strong cross examination. They began with Tabitha's affair with her friend Whitney's father, Jay, and the trust issues are created in her marriage. And who's

Whitney's father? Do you know? Yes? Who is your father? Cecil Smith? Cecil Smith? Yeah, how do you know? How well? Do you know? Very well? Okay? And Cecil also goes by the name Jay, Is that right? Yes? Okay? And at some point you had some revelation to tell George about Jay, right, Yes? What was that? What was the reason? Well? Yeah, what was the revelation? What did you have to tell him? I had told him that I cheated on him? Okay, with with Jay? Right? And in factas was more than

just one occasion, right, yes? And how old is Jay? Not twenty five thirty years older? You were about seventeen maybe at the time. No, I didn't get back with George until I was about eighteen nineteen. Defense attorney Richard Nash also points out that Tabitha and her siblings had been sexually abused by her mother's husband, Dave. The defense sided this as a quite reasonable reason why the Wagners did not want Tabitha bringing their grandchild around to family.

The perpetrator, the person who victimized you. That's Day, right, Yes, And Dave is your mother's husband was is dead now he's dead? And when did he die? About five years ago? I think? Okay? And your mother was aware of the things that Day did to you. Yes, And not only did he do these awful things to you, but he

did him to your sisters. Yes. Now, when you left the Wagner home, we'll get to this more in depth, but that's where you went, was the home with Day, right, Yes, And George did not want his little boy living in the same home as Day. Is that what he told you? Yes? Okay, that seems like a pretty rational thing to not want your child around the child molester. Right. Yes, you don't fault George for not wanting his son to be there, right,

That was a no? Yes, that was a no. I don't blame him, and your mother was an enabler to these things that had happened to you and your sisters. Yes, the defense also killed Tabitha on her mental health and whether she was doing enough to tend to him. Now that I have refreshed her recollection, do you recall telling David Jenkins you had a perfect life with your husband, yes, and who you're referring to as George, right, yes, Okay.

Now back to George and living with him, He had various jobs, right, yes, For a while he worked at Bennetts and Medford, yes, okay, and then for some time he was hauling cattle right yes. And where he would haul cattle, he would be gone for like a week on or a week off. Yes, okay. Now back to that situation where you had cut your arms? Did you ever seek any help for that? The only reason I done it was because George and Angela won't shut up

the man. You learned about getting back on zoloft, even though I told him the last time I was on zooloft it didn't end well. Zolo Okay, So you have been prescribed zoloft, is what you're telling us? Yes? And for what reason are you prescribed zoloft depression by poland. Okay, and you have said you would agree with me that you've said that you don't like taking medication, right, not that one enough, okay, any other medication you didn't like

taking mndelina. Then there were the continued claims of different ways that George has been abusive. But the defense took this moment to dissect and try and undercut Tabitha's testimony. I ask you about that incident when you had left the Wager home, if I'm not mistaken, Well, first off, you have discussed that incident with the BCI agents, right, if I'm me leading about we got in my arm

about the incident when you left. You've been questioned about that, and you and you told them what happened, right, Yes? Would you agree with me though, that when you talked to the BCI agents you told him that you and George were horse playing, playing around with about yes, okay, and it's Michael, I don't hear that. Well you said what now? What the belt? Yes, with the belt? But okay, now you would agree with me that you never told any BCI agent that there was playing with a belt? Right?

What you never mentioned a belt to a BCI agent. Right, it's part of that night. I'm pretty sure I did. Okay, all right, But you've always said that it was just the two of you horseplane or plane around, right, Yes, at first it was okay, So maybe I misunderstood your testimony on direct examination, but it sounded to me as if you were saying that he was like assaulting you with a belt. That's not true, right, That's not what I said, okay, And I may be wrong, but I'm

just making sure that I understood you correctly. You weren't testifying that he was assaulting you with a belt, right, No, I did not say he was assaulting me with belt, okay. And it was just you guys, we're playing around right in the beginning, yes, okay. And then Angela, I guess I wanted you guys to stop, yes, because I yelled at her precious baby okay, um, all right. And you wanted to leave the house, right, yes, And when you went to leave, George had put his arm on the

door so you couldn't leave, yes, okay. Now this was in November, right, yes, okay. And when you left on your bicycle it was dark, right, yes, okay, And so how much time went by from when you're trying to leave and when you actually fled on your bicycle it was dark. I don't know, maybe an hour now, I'm not clear about this. This agreement you went into, you had to go into a courtroom in front of a judge before you could divorce dissolve your marriage, right, yes.

And when you stood in front of that judge, the judge changed you that you were agreeing to George being the soul customer, right, yes. And the judge also made sure you understood that all visits would be supervilent, right yes. And you were asked if you understood that. You said yes, yes, okay, And there was nothing in there about changing these things at a later time, right no, okay. And so it's fair to say those were your wishes, right exactly what

the judge had made sure you understood. No, that's not my wishes. George told me that it was only temporary, that's what was supposed to have been done, and whenever I got my own place, in my own job, then I could have him back and would do the fifty fifty thing. I think that if we may out and then we would probably still be together because I still love him. I really do. I always have and always will. But I couldn't tank having to ask to do something

with my own son. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. As the defensive cross examination continued to pay Tabitha in a more uncertain light, it was hard to know exactly what to make of her accusations. Here's long crime reporter and Jeanette Levy, she

has been through a lot. And also you know the fact that there are Facebook messages between her and Hannah Ma roudin days before Hannah May was murdered in which they talked about this issue of custody and how the Wagoners wanted Hannah Ma sign over custody of her daughter that she had with Jake. And it was kind of sad to hear Tabitha say that, literally, she still loves George.

I mean this was back in twenty sixteen, of course, but it sounded like she still loved him and if they had ever been able to move out on their own, they probably would have still been together. She said she had told George she wanted them to move out and to get their own place. She thought it would help their relationship, and she said that George said, we're a farm family. We have to live together here again Jeff

and Stephanie during cross exam. It really painted a picture of Tabitha versus the Wagoners, which, as we know at the time, Tabitha was a young woman in her late teens early twenties, and the Wagoners were kind of a force to be reckoned with. It seems like she kind of just wanted all of the turmoil to end and just be a mom to her son, and somehow signing this paperwork and doing what the Wagners want it seemed

like the path of least resistance to her. I think this testimony seems relevant to the charges that George Wagner the fourth is facing, because not only does it paint a picture of George as someone who is abusive and cruel, but also the fact that he really moved in a unit with his family, which then, as we know, is what the prosecution is saying happened with the planning and execution of these murders. And it also speaks to a bit of a pattern, a pattern in custody. Correct, does

that mean it's a pattern in murder. I'm assuming those links are still to come Aside from Tabitha, the jury also heard from two other key witnesses, both of whom opted out of being recorded on the stand. The first was Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend, who he shared a child with. Here's Anteinette with insight into that testimony. I think the jury seemed really interested in testimony since she had a

relationship with Frankie Rowden. She is the mother of his his oldest son, and you know, she had some things that were interesting that she was able to tell the jury. You know, she talked about getting a phone call from Hannah May in twenty fourteen, which sounded terrifying. That she said that Angel Wagner ran out of the house and chased Tabitha out of the house with a shotgun, and that Jake and George and Hannah all followed, and that Jake told her not to leave the house. If she did,

he would chop off her legs. I mean, that's terrifying. After a meeting in his chambers, Judge Daring emerged to tell the jury that the phone call between Hannah and Frankie Roden's ex girlfriend was probative evidence only. This is to say, it's meant to prove a relevant fact in the case, but could not be used to cast a shadow over the Wagner's character. The second witness is Jeff Tackett, a one time friend of Billy Wagner's. The pair became

friends when they were just thirteen years old. Jeff worked at the Wagner family's farms and once when hunting with the entire Wagner family. According to Tackett, George Wagner flew into a rage when his father killed a deer. Before he did, George went home early. Tackett testified that George was moody and erratic due to the pain pills he took. These are pills that Angela allegedly plied him with. Tackett was also with Billy in the days leading up to

the murders. After the massacre, Tackett believed Billy had something to do with it and started working with the BCI. He agreed to wear a wire and inform on the Wagner's Mike Allen, he was a lifelong friend of Billy Wagner. He cooperated with the BCI, and he actually wore a wire.

He saw Billy Wagner days before the murder in a room filled with weapons, and that is I think very relevant, again a peripheral relevance maybe to George's guilt or innocence, but in telling the tale and telling the story of the Wagner family, it's important. He worked sometimes at the Flying w Farm, which was the family farm, because he

was helping to break some horses. He knew Christinior, Frankie Hannah May, and Chris Junior and said that he warned Chris Senor that if you had trouble with them, they will harm you or kill you. Here again, Anjeanette. Jeff Teckett described the Wagners as being very close, like a cult. He's been around the Wagners a lot. He's been around

Frederico Wagner a lot. He talked about Frederica Wagner even gave him a percocet for pain one time because he was having an issue, and he said it made him feel dizzy, and he told her never to give him something like that again. So he didn't want anything to do with that, but he did provide a lot of interesting information about the Wagners and the fact that he believed that Billy Way was involved in these homicides. After seeing all of those items in his bedroom. Let's stop

here for another break. Here's Angie Kneppa examining the next witness, Samantha's Daley. Samantha is a longtime friend of both Jake and George Wagner's. She has appeared on the podcast before and has a history with Jake Wagner. What fare a time when you were intimate with Jake Wagner? Yes? Okay? And can you tell us who's who inditiated that he did? Okay? And if you can just tell us what his purpose was? So one summer I got a phone call he did not know how to have in a course, I guess.

He asked me if I could help him out, Being young and dumb, I guess I said sure, why not? And it was all one time flying. So we just did what we did, okay? And do you recall approximately when that would have been, I know, a summer, I'm guessing around two twelve, but that one night stand aside, Samantha felt more drawn to George in comparison to Jake. George seemed to have more of his own personality. She found him to be effusive and always cracking jokes, whereas

Jake was always plotting and devious. At one point, during his battle with hannahme Rodin, Jake auss Samantha to dig up dirt on Hannah to help his case for soul custody. Samantha refused. George, Samantha says, was much kinder, nicer, and in her words, more bubbly. So, in my opinion, my eyes outlooked. George would always go out and do his own thing. Jake would always have to get Angela's opinion before he would go do anything Angela didn't approve. Jake

never did. George, on the other hand, would just do his own thing. And as I understand it, when you were very young, you felt like your mother and Angela would kind of pushing you over towards being with Jake. Yes, and that you really didn't care for too much. Is that right? And actually, as the years wore on, you were more attracted to George. Is that fair to say? He actually made me feel like I was wanted? Honestly? He was nice to you, right, Yes, and that continued

into a dawn put right yes. And in fact, I think you just told us a story that when you were kind of on a rough spot around Christmas time. I think you described, he came over and brought toys for your trial. Yes, and gave you cash money to help you pay you with the bills. Yes. How would you describe him when he was very young? He's bubbly. Here again an Jeanette. Samantha Staley said some things that

were actually helpful to George Wagner. She painted George Wagner out to be somebody who was very nice to her. She said that, you know, there was a Christmas where she didn't have money to buy Christmas gifts for her children, and so George Wagner met her somewhere and gave her the presents and gave her money to pay her electric bills. She said things nice things about the Wagners. Her father had had a medical issue, and she said, Frederica, you

paid to keep utilities on. But after the road and murders, Samantha said, George's demeanor markedly changed. Frankie Roden was her first love, so she was already shaken by the news of his death, but George was less than consoling. Can you tell us after the homicides occurred, did you ever have contact with Jake or George or Angela or Billy after the homicide of the murders. I got my car in May of twenty sixteen. I had went fishing with George a couple of days later after getting my color.

Maybe a week after that, I'm sure if it was a couple of days or a week, Okay, so approximately a month after the murders had happened. Yes, he went fishing. Yes, And who went fishing with you? Myself, my husband, and George. And can you tell us, first of all, if you noticed anything about George during that time? He wasn't the same George that I knew. He looked very sad, very hurt, very lost, very dead inside. He didn't have the crooked smile that he always had, so you knew him to

be more Joe vile or happy or bubbly bubbily. Yes, and how did that strike you? That night when we were fishing, we were going to stay there all night. Um, it actually started a lightning and he said, I don't fish in a lightning. So we honestly started to pack up. I had said something Frankie had popped in my mind. I don't remember exactly what I had said, and I just started ramlingle and started questioning. You know, can you believe this has happened. They're gone, They're never coming back.

I was pretty much told to shut the f up. More on that next time. For more information on the Cave some relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wheater, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production

of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.