On the Eve Of...

is extremely rare for family to testify against family. Will he face the death penalty they killed the mother of the girl they were trying to get custody up. Or will he walk free? I think the defense knows something that we don't know. We're there tracking the case in real time. I don't think I've ever seen photo zach graphic before. Join the nearly thirty million listeners as the mystery unfolds. When a jury sees a human bodies and ripped shreds, they want their pound flesh. This is the

Pipdon Massacre. Trials begin season four, episode one on the eve of I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. After following this case for years, trials are officially beginning in Ohio's largest criminal investigation in the state's history. It's been more than six years since the events of April twenty first, twenty sixteen, when eight family members were shot dead in the middle of the night, some were sleeping and others. Based on

crime scene evidence, their final moments are unimaginable. It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, and his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Prosecutors say the Wagner family planned the killing for months. I don't know that people can fully fathom what went on in those mobile homes, But when the full force of that hits the most important people in the room, which are going to be

those jurors, it's going to reverberate. Two and a half years later, four members of a prominent local family who knew the victims very well, were arrested and charged with capital murder. This was planned and plotted four different homes where these family members were slaughtered, absolutely slaughtered, and for this family, God and when this happened. Think about this shock and confusion. Who takes out a whole family and

why would you do that? Matriarch Angela Wagner, her husband Billy, and their two sons in their early twenties, Jake and George were the arrested parties. Since then, Anchela Wagner and her youngest son Jake have taken plea agreements in exchange for testifying against George and Billy Wagner. We've spent years chasing clues trying to unpack the mystery of what happened

that night. Since we've been following the Pikes and Masker for so many years, Stephanie and I decided the only way to make sure we got the whole story was to get in that quart room for the trial. Here's Stephanie as this trial finally approaches, there are a lot of questions that we still don't have answers to and

are desperate to know more about. It was noted in one of the motions that accused older brother George Wagner, who is the one standing trial, only joined the murdering spree very last minute that fateful night, and we don't understand why. It says in the motion that he was only going to protect his younger brother, Jake Wagner, from his father. What does that even mean. I also want to know if he accused mother, Angela Wager, was actually

at four murder locations. In her plea deal, she claims that she was quote home babysitting, but previous reports say otherwise. She also has a burglary charge, which would say perhaps she was at the location before or after the murders. It's yet unclear. And what a showdown in the courtroom. This is actually going to be think about it for the very first time in years. Angela Wagner, the accused mother, and the youngest brother, Jake Wagner, are going to face off.

They're going to see George in the courtroom. They're gonna lock eyes, and that's going to seal his fate. We desperately want to be there for that. The courtroom where the Wagner's fate will be decided is in the Pike County Courthouse. It's a three story red brick federal style building in the middle of Waverley, Ohio, about twenty miles northeast of where the murders took place. It looks exactly like you would imagine a medium sized Midwest county courthouse

to look. The anticipation is extremely high. I've been involved in this in this area Southwest Ohio trial work for years, and I've never seen anything like it. Like every other step in this case, from the crime scene itself, through the investigation and shot and guilty verdicts, the word everyone uses is unprecedented. The fact that it's holding true even leading up to the actual trial maybe shouldn't feel surprising,

but it has been a pretty bumpy, unexpected start. Initially, opening statements were slated to begin on Tuesday, September sixth, the day after Labor Day. We booked a trip to Pike County, only to have to cancel it due to the delays. Jeff spoke with reporter James Pilcher about how local media was getting set up to cover the trial. Tell me, so you're in Pike County right now or where are you? I'm actually in the first floor of the courtroom the courthouse, sitting right below the courtroom in

the media room. I'm going to be spending a lot of time here over the next four weeks, five weeks, six weeks, and so what's the feeling like in the courthouse and around the courthouse. Well, today it was a lot of hustle and bustled with that. There were a couple other TV stations. We're here dropping off their equipment. We're installing all of our stuff, getting everything set up. Do you think that Waverley Courthouse is ready for a

trial of this magnitude they're trying. They've actually installed higher speed internet, They've installed free Wi Fi for us here in the media room. I think there are some you know, there's some businesses that are actually looking forward to it because there's gonna be so many people in from out of town as part of this. Over the past year, we've gotten glimpses of the prosecution strategy based on arguments made by lead attorney Angie Kneppa during pre trial motions.

It seems like they will attempt to paint a picture of a tight knit family where everyone was in on the plot. The defense's main argument is that the family isn't on trial here, George Wagner is, and that he didn't actually kill anyone that night. How does defense get out from underneath the legal standard of aggravated murder, which states in Ohio you don't have to pull the trigger to be convicted of murder if you help plan it, and if you help cover it up, and if you

helped execute it. So that's going to be the very big challenge, and I'm very interested to see what the defense says. The wild card is what Jake and Angela may say while on the stand. They have not seen each other since being arrested in twenty eighteen. How common is that for family to testify against family in a case like this. It is extremely, extremely rare for family to testify against family. Mike Allen is a legal analyst who's worked on the defense and prosecution sides, and is

also a former judge. Maybe I've seen it two or three times in all the years I've been doing it, and never, never, on a case of this, magnan dude. It's like two family members against two other family members, and this is a family that is reportedly extremely close. That's going to be something to see because it just doesn't happen very often. We can assume that what Jake and Angela say about George is not going to be favorable. They're not going to say that he didn't do anything

wrong right, quite the opposite exactly. I mean, yeah, the prosecutor is not going to put them up on the stand for them to testify. How wonderful you know, George is ain't gonna happen. They're not gonna be able to play around up there and play footsie with the prosecutor. I mean, they have to testify, truthfully. Can you talk to us about what the possible end results are for George? Could he walk? Are there lesser charges or is it guilty on all? What are the options? Here are the

options for George? I mean, obviously one of the options is a far him not guilty to the aggravated murder. But even if that were to happen, he's still stuck with four counts of aggravated burglary, three counts of tampering with evidence, two counts of unlawful possession of dangerous ordinance, single counts of conspiracy, forgery, unauthorized use of a computer or telecommunications wire. So even if he's not convicted of the homicides, there is a lot here that can put

him away for a lot of years. Could all of those together equal a life sentence or is that totally unknowable? Oh? No, it could he easily equal life sentence. Meanwhile, jury selection, which began on August eighth, is underway. The first hurdle is finding an impartial jury in a small town for the largest case in the history of Ohio. Here's retired

prosecutor and Flanagan. You have to usually wait until you start to see the jury and see if you can't come up with a number of people who indicate they can be fair and impartial. But it doesn't really matter if they've had some information come through its will they listen to the evidence and the rulings and the matters that have been brought to them in the courtroom, set aside anything else they might have heard, and then make

the decision fairly and honestly for both sides. I always talk to a jury and say, you know, at the end of the day, you want to go home, and you want to be safe in your own heart and mind that you have only done what you've been asked to do because you want to go home and be able to sleep tonight. To find a jury, Pike County sent about a thousand questionnaires to locals asking for volunteers. Two hundred people responded, and the court is in the

process of whittling them down. Seventy perspective death qualified jurors reported to the Pike County Courthouse. This is where final jury selection is beginning. Death qualified means it's already been determined that these jurors are willing to implement the death penalty if it's warranted. Local crime reporter Anjeanette Levy has been our Eyes and Ears on the ground in Ohio for several seasons of the podcast. I spoke with Anjeanette

about what it's been like. During the week preceding the trial, seventy death qualified jurors showed up at the Pike County Courthouse. Fifty one of them were women and nineteen of them were men, And so George Wagner, the Force attorneys, they filed a motion saying, this whole panel, the whole veneer should be stricken because it's too many women, and there were working class jurors who were excluded for financial hardship

and they shouldn't have been. So that's discriminatory, and so they thought, you know, we should start over with the whole thing. Well, the judge said, no, I don't think so, and denied the motion. So jury selection continued and we were all wondering whether or not they'd be able to really seat this jury, and they were able to do it. So the jury consists of nine women and three men, and then the panel of six alternates, and that's five women and one man. So you have majority women who

will be hearing this case. Wow, with having so many women, that's unusual, right, you know, I don't know if it's unusual. I think we've seen trials like this in the past where it's waited one way or the other. I covered the Johnny Depp trial in Virginia. Different trial, obviously a civil case, a defamation case, but the majority of the jurors were men on the panel. Sometimes that's just how it shakes out. We're going to take a break. We'll

be back in a moment with the jury chosen. In less than a week before the trial is said to begin, Presiding Judge Daring drops a bombshell on the media. Late today, Judge Randy Deering issued his final rules on what can and can't be shown on camera or online. Judge Dearring is going to allow each witness to opt out of being photographed or recorded that includes any audio of their testimony. So if they choose witnesses can only be seen or

heard by people inside the courtroom. The judge will also extend that right to the Wagner's younger brother Jake, and his mother Angela when they testify for the prosecution. When the witness comes to the stand, he's going to say, yeah, the right not to be shown on television, and then we have to turn the camera off, and he's going

to do that. Furbu single witness. Why you know, it's going to be very difficult if they all say no, and we still haven't gotten any clarification and whether or not we can at least play the audio of their voice. We're still kind of up in the air and when this whole thing is going to start, how we can cover it all of that. Here's reporter and Jeanette Levy speaking with producer Chris Graves. In the state of Ohio, witnesses can opt out of being videotaped recorded in any way.

So we had to file something, so we're probably going to have it hearing next week. If they deny this motion that you guys are filing, then everyone gets the option to turn down being recorded. Correct, they have the option anyway? What We're more concerned about is Jake and Angela being on camera. We don't want them to be able to opt out, and any other witnesses who want don't want to be photographed. We want the right to

record at least their audio. You know, there may be lay witnesses who are fearful of testifying, and that's understandable, but we want to at least be able to hear what they're saying. We all pitched in, like all four Cincinnati TV stations to Cincinnati Inquire, lawng Crime, and Court TV. We all are represented by the same lawyer, Is it yeah? Jack Rener. Media lawyer Jack Griner represented Local twelve and several other outlets in the effort to get better access

to the trial. On his website, Grinder calls himself a reporter's lawyer and is a well known champion for First Amendment rights. We've spoken about him before. He's the same attorney who sued for access to the autopsies in this case. We had hoped that we get a ruling that would really go towards maximizing the public stability to participate in this trial, at least in the sense of observing it. People can come to the courtroom, but for many people

that's not possible. With George Wagner the fourth facing twenty two counts, there's going to be a lot of evidence to go through point by point. Also, since there has been so much that's been protected and redacted in the autopsies, this will also be our first opportunity to see the crime scene photos to find out exactly what occurred that night. Here's Stephanie. Those are going to tell a very specific story. I just want to see the accused, Billy Wagner in

person and see how his demeanor is. I mean, think about it. It's been alleged that Billy Wagner, George Wagner, and Jake Wagner all attended the funerals of people who they murdered. I mean, can you imagine the level of composure that must take and what kind of psychopaths actually attend the funeral and pretend to be mourning the people

they actually murdered. This will also be the time when we find out if, indeed these eight murders the sole motive behind them was for custody of the daughter, who was shared between confirmed murderer Jake Wagner and the victim Hannah May Rodin or were many other things at play, and more importantly, God willing the Rodens, the Gillies, and the Manly family that they'll finally get some justice as

the child gets closer. There is another surprising development. The jury boarded a school bus and then they were taken to some of the remote locations where the crime scenes actually happened. In both Piketon and Reardon, Ohio. Jurors visited all four crime scenes, looking closely at run down buildings now partially covered in overgrowth and the vacant ground where the road and mobile homes once sat. But a reminder that the jury view was not to be considered as

evidence for the jurors. Rather, it's to give them a better understanding of the arguments here and really kind of give them a lay of the land, if you will. And Neette Levy and the rest of the media are allowed to follow the school bus full of jurors and via the proceedings from a distance. Chris Graves and I spoke with her about this. We followed along as the school bus in the motorcade went around and we went to all these sites from nine thirty in the morning,

till about seven at night. We also went to places points of interest and drove around a lot of roads where you know, they determined it was like the routes they said that the Wagner strove that night. Did they show them in the order that they thought they had been killed? We believe. So it started out at Chris's house, Chris Senior. Then they walked a path down to Frankie Roden's house that he shared with Hannah Gilly, and then they went down to Dana Roden's home but didn't stop.

So it was very interesting. It makes you think, did they start at Chris Senior's, then they went down to Frankie's, they turn around, they see that, you know, whatever's going on at Dana's house. Maybe they didn't stop. Maybe they went down to candets and came back. We don't know that for certain, but it's certainly a possibility because there was a discussion that Dana had worked at double shift

that night and worked later than anticipated. Oh my god, is the implication potentially with what you just said, that they knew she was working a double shift and therefore didn't want to go nor as she wouldn't be there. That was the conclusion we were drawing. That doesn't mean we were right, but it seemed strange that they would drive down to Dana's and not get out when you're

on the same road. Why why do that? I don't recall a case where the jurors and this includes the people the twelve and paneled and then the alternates are loaded up in a school bus and driven out to these locations where these events took place. Here's forensic death

investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. You think about, you know, as the crew is moving down the road and they've essentially wiped out one portion of the family, are they talking about, you know, what they're going to do next on Unihale Road? And that kind of puts it in perspective at that moment, Tom, does the jury have a sense of that was the prosecutor or the detectives board that school bus is kind of acting like a tour guide, if you will, and telling them it was at this point that they picked

up the car. It was they we believe that they traveled in this direction and you're getting an idea of this pace and you you contemplate for a moment what these folks in the vehicle or we're talking about doing and what they did, And I think that that's that's certainly a note that the prosecutors want to drop into the ears of the jury members all of these sorts of little details like that, which can I think you know, after this trial, these trials are said done. This is

something that will be studied for years to come. This Pike County Sheriff Impound lot is a key stop on the jury view. Remember, the rodents were found dead inside their mobile homes and camper and this lot is where those vehicles were hauled and are still being helped today. They took them to the impound lot at the Sheriff's office, where the trailers are now stored and where the pickup truck that we believed said they purchased to commit the

murders is stored. They were taken to ten locations over two days. To our knowledge, they were not taken into the actual trailers. We were not permitted to go into the actual structure where those trailers are housed. So we should have been allowed in there. It's public property, and according to the precedent, even if it was private property, we should be allowed to go on it. But they kept us out. Stephanie and I have been too piked in numerous times over the past few years, but this

time the stakes felled higher. The last time you and I were here, it was snowing and raining and dark and dreary and so cold, And now it's sunny and bright, and it definitely has a different feeling. We had to the courthouse to meet up with reporter James Pilcher to find out the latest about media access. The most surprising thing about this whole enterprise is how quickly the judge turned from being media friendly to all of a sudden, the most restrictive trial however, any of us have ever

had to deal with. Ever. Why do you think we don't know why? We've asked, why, we've asked for a meeting with the judge, we've gotten no answer. Technically, if you're a city official, you work for the city. So if the city is you know, air quote, standing sitting jury and watching and wanting to see how taxpayer dollars are getting spent for me, it's more of a transparency public record. This is the most complex, most important murder trial in the history of the state, and yet nobody

can watch it. I don't know unless we want to push it to another appeals court or the Supreme Court. There's nothing we can do. Like I kind of get it for retribution purposes if you're somebody who's speaking out against the accused wagoners and you're fearing that someone's going to come put a hit on you. On Friday, they started erecting a fence around the parking lot of the courthouse and the entire courthouse, a chain link fence. We

had ever seen that before. This is an old, old courthouse, and George Wagner has to be brought into the courthouse from the outside. There isn't an underground tunnel or any other type of entrance, so they've erected defense. Is that concern for his safety? I would assume it's a safety issue. They don't want people just kind of walking through there that shouldn't be in there. That's my interpretation of why they did that. Hopefully we can get cameras in there,

that's really the goal. Yeah, right now, I don't know. Man kind of looks a little bit shaky. What do you think the feeling is for the prosecution, for the defense for everyone in Pike County right now? You know, any time before trial, you get butterflies, no matter how many of them that you've done before, you get butterflies. Let's stop here for another break. On the morning of the first day of trial, the media is alerted to

another development. Opening statements were expected and slated for today, but there has been a delay. We were supposed to be an opening statements right now that we got word that somebody involved with the trial has become ill and needs some time to recover. It's a temporary setback in a process that has taken over six years to begin. As of right now, we're planning for opening statements on

September twelfth. That's next Monday. September eleventh is a date etched on the consciousness of every American today, at least this year. In Southeast Ohio. It's the day before the biggest trial in the history of the state. We're on the leave of this and these lawyers have been eating, sleeping, livingness for months now, and I think we're starting to see, you know, exactly what each side is going to be presenting.

James Pilcher. For me, it's a culmination of paying attention to this for the last two and a half years. I'm glad it's actually happening. There were some doubt in my mind as to whether or not it actually ever would happen. I'm really really interested to hear the opening statements from the prosecution, because I think they're going to lay out their face and start talking specifically about the

evidence that they have. But I think the things that we're going to look for are how does the defense present George as a quote unquote innocent bystander on all this? And one of the things we've heard is that potentially George only went along to keep Billy from killing Jake. If the evidence shows you was there, if the evidence and the wire taps, and they have recordings of him talking about this, which apparently they do, how does he get out from underneath the aggravated murder charge even if

he isn't necessarily one of the trigger men. But if this is a slam dunk for the prosecution, why is the defense going to trial? There's a strap how to cheat there that I don't think we've seen yet. I haven't seen it, at least I think the defense probably knows something that we all don't know. Do you think there's some sort of break in the case that will come out in the courtroom that no one is expecting. Yes, I do. These are experienced defense counsel They know exactly

what they're doing. So I just think, before this thing is over, we're going to know quite a few things about the case that we didn't know before. I think one of the big things. And if you come to all these hearings, you see the Rodent and Gillie family survivors who are here every single time. I think this is finally going to give them some closure, finally some

actual justice. More on that next time, the defense table sits right in front of the witness box, so he's going to be looking right at his brother, and his brother's gonna be looking right at him. I don't think I've ever seen photos that graphic before. When a jury sees a human body and ripped the shreds, there's that thing within them that ro was stuff and they want their pound flesh. For more information and case photos, follow

us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piketon Masaker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti, music by Jared Asten, audio mixing by Ken Novak. The Piked and Masker is a production of Kati Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.