Mountains of Evidence

not the most horrific knight of this person's life. This is the piked and massacre returned to Pike County season four, episode six, Mountains of Evidence. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Laidecker and Jeff Shane. Thus far, George Wagner, the first child, has been both mundane and shocking. It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, has pleaded not guilty and

has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. The prosecution is making its case methodically, with hours of testimony occasionally punctuated with gruesome new details of the night in question. The defense has been mostly quiet, seemingly waiting for Angie Kanappa and her team to present anything. Dying George Wagner to the crime safely college. Next witness,

shall please raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you were about to get shall be the truth, the whole truth? And I think that's the truth that you shall answer unto God. Yes I did. Shane Henshaw was one of the lead agents for the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations or CBI. He arrived unseen hours after the bodies of Chris Roden Senior and his cousin Gary Rodin were discovered. This morning, Andrew

Wilson is asking the questions for the prosecution. Let's talk a little bit about your background or your employment history, taking you up to your current employment. So when did you start out in law of force. I was basically commissioned as a peace officer in nineteen ninety. The first fifteen minutes of testimony highlight Hanshaw's qualifications. He has years of training and crime scene reconstruction, ballistics and blood spatter analysis.

When I first arrived at saying you can see here that there's a lot of buildings, there's a lot, there's a lot of things that are primary focus of that. The prosecution displays a large photo of Chris Roden, Senior's property agent Henshaw point out the front yard. A tow truck sits outside the home Christina lived in where Gary was staying that night. There's an eighteen wheeler trailer and an eighty sedan with the front half missing. Henshaw began

his investigation on the lawn itself. As part of your work in this case, did you pluck the mountain dew can it's depicted that picture. Yes, I did. In addition to that mountain dew can, did you find a couple other items out front of boards or seven seven union hered Yes, sir. Once again, you see my plaquard number two, the scale plaquard, and you see a cigarette butt or a partial cigarette. But there when it comes to testifying,

it's clear Handshaw as well practiced. He listens intently to every question, then turns deliberately to address the jury face to face. As part of your work in this case, did you collect that cigarette butt? Yes, sir, I did. From everything that I've seen, and heard did an excellent job with it. No question about any of the avidacee thatd been not propered by the state, and I think

that's a large part because of BCI's professionalism. The Mountain dew can and cigarette butts contained traces of Gary Rowden's DNA. Next Handshawn Fortnan moved on to the exterior of the trailer. Tell us what stood out to you when you did that initial look. I noticed that there were multiple bullet holes in the front of the house. There were six bullet holes in a line moving progressively closer to the door. You notice the screen door had bullet holes, but the

front door did not. Was that correct? Yeah, I've seen that. That led me to believe that the front door was most likely open when the blood lighting event had occurred on the evening of April twenty first, twenty sixteen, it was clear and breezy and piked in temperatures win the low seventies until about seven pm, when the wind picked up, dropping the temperature to the high fifties. The open door likely provided Chris and Gary with some welcomed fresh air.

Stephanie and I talk about some of the photographs shown in trial and the details they revealed. We've heard a lot of reports over the years that Chris Senior, Frankie Rodin, and even Chris Jor Rodin worked at Big Bear Lake at various times. They operated big equipment. We know that Chris Sior was said to be building patios in and around the area, but we've never been able to substantiate

those claims, essentially until now. Gary Roden, Chris Senior, Roden's cousin, also worked at Big Bear Lake, specifically when he was staying with Chris Rodin, which he did on occasion, and this was one of the times that he was staying there, you know, working just to make a living. Looking at the crime scene photos, we can see the clothing that Chris Senior was wearing when he was murdered, and he's literally wearing a hooded sweatshirt that says Big Bear Lake

on it. The question as to whether Chris and Gary road and knew their attackers or whether they were taken by surprise still remains. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. They had to neutralize Chris Senior and Gary the positions that they occupied in the family. Chris was known not

to back down. If they did not neutralize them, if they just say, grazed him in some way and he was able to retreat, or Gary was able to retreat, access to phones, or maybe he had an ability to get out of that trailer, they could blow the whole show them way, because the next thing you know, Dana is aware of what's about to happen, Hannah is aware,

and her trailer were what's going to happen. They couldn't run the risk of allowing one of these people to get to jump on them or to alert anybody else. So I think that that's why they went to Chris's house first and neutralize Chris Senior and Gary. At the same time, Prosecuting Attorney Wilson brings up photos of clean exit holes on the interior wall of the trailer. There are torn bits of woods circling the holes. What does

that indicate to you? It indicates directionality. First of all, that whatever object calls that would have appeared to be coming from the outside end, because this is on the inside, or every bullet will be tract had characteristics and appeared to come from the front of the residence toward the residence and then away from the residence. And again, will these consistent with path through type shots. Yes, sir, some of the bullets went clean through the trailer and out

through the opposite wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well, first off, you're talking about a mobile home, which is obviously not the most robust structure. Anyway, You've got a projectile that is traveling out of the end of that muzzle, and it is supersonic. That means that with a hop powered rifle, it is actually traveling faster than speed of sound. That little paper thin wall within a mobile home is not going to stop one of these high velocity rounds.

It's going to travel through till it strikes another area or a person that it would have sufficiently slowed it down, and so it would have been I think a moment of total chaos and confusion. One photo shows an exit hole right next to walart that says, quote love less Forever. The jury has shown a diagram of where bullet shards were found inside the trailer. There are two on the front porch and a bunch around the chair. In Chris Senior's living room, a bullet is waged a stereo speaker

as well. In addition to that projectile that you just identified from inside the wall, there were there are other projectiles in different areas of that living room. Yes, okay, there's a stack of tan pouches and boxes in front of Agent Handshaw. At this point, George Wagner fiddles with his goatee. His defense attorney checks his watch. Every bullet chart that was collected is painstakingly taken out of its corresponding envelope and confirmed by Hanshaw as evidence he bagged

six years ago. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean a lot of us in the media and in the Lake community laming not lawyers are like, why can't they speed this up? Why are they going through every showcase. I think they're trying to cut the defense off at the knees as much as possible to say, we exhausted every avenue and came up with this conclusion.

And we looked at every cigarette butt, and we looked at every DNA sample, and we did everything we could. You know, we live in a faster world people. I think it even extends out to courtroom. They want things delivered to them immediately, and sometimes it takes longer to prepare. It certainly takes much longer to make your way through it, and that's the case with us. We're talking about eight

dead bodies here, eight in four different locations. Was there any evidence that you saw with your eyes based on your knowledge, your training, your experience, that led you to believe that any shots had originated from inside of that trailer. Going outside of that trailer, I found nothing at all that would indicate that any shots were fired from within the house. Going out of the house, my opinion was that the shots did occur from outside. I felt that

they were from the front yard area. Agent Todd Partner was brought in to use what is called a Pharaoh three D scanner of the entire crime scene, including the exterior. Here again Joseph Scott Morgan with the Farrow technology. It is a laser that is set up and it's kind of hard to describe if folks have not seen one. It sits on a tripod and it is a can to something that you would see along the side of

the roadway. If you've ever seen an individual doing surveying, only the scene is automated, and you have the lasers that are being essentially blasted out at one portion of the unit, and the unit itself is spinning around as these lasers are kind of firing off in every different direction. The laser is shooting over ten million different points as it spins around, and you can capture height, depth, width, all of those things that we could normally do with

a regular SLR punement scene. So it really breeds life into this when you're taking a look at it. And so when the jury members see this in that courtroom in Pike County, Ohio for just a few moments, they're transported back in time. Walk us through, what do you remember about scanning that scene. We did one scame from outside out front where you could see kind of the

whole front yard. There were bullet holes in the front of the trailer that subsequently we placed trajectory rods in and to measure those we place years on those rods that then the scanner can pick up to measure our angles. Trajectory rods are poked through bullet holes, giving investigators a general idea of the path of the bullet as it passed through a surface. He pulls a three D model of the entire yard with long lines running into the

front yard. Based on the angular measurement data. We take the horizontal angle the vertical angle, and this is just a line drawn between those two spheres, a straight line that then can be extrapolated back to a possible origin of those shots. Based on the data that the Farrow scan was telling you, was it believed that those shots that went through that front door came somewhere from the area just behind that bushold They point to a spot in the ground about twenty feet from the front door

on the front lawn. What we do know is there are strikes in the front of the porch, so it had to be at least there, and where the trajectory lines end on the groundswood couldn't be Joseph Scott Morgan. These rounds appear to be going from below to above, so they're rising up essentially from the ground. More than likely they would be in a kneeling position. I think folks would ask, well, why would you be in a

kneeling position to do that? Well, you would want to try to secure your person as solidly as you possibly can because the recoil and with this particular weapon. There is a tremendous amount of recoil because this is such a robust round. You're going to feel it from the moment you engage that trigger until that energy transfers through the bud of that weapon and into your shoulder. Here's Stephanie. We've also heard reports that Senior was expecting Billy Wagner,

the accused dad, that night. They were apparently going to have an important conversation. So what does that mean? Does that mean that Billy went up to the door and knocked on it and Chris answered, Could it be that they were just surprised? Does the idea of there being a person kneeling in wait outside of Christinior's home in the dark near the woods is such a terrifying thought. But we still don't know who that person is, which one wasn't. We're going to take a break. We'll be

back in a moment. At this point, testimony moves to the inside of the home. In the galley, members of the Rodent, Gilly, and Manly families prepare themselves for another day of horrific photos. Geneva, Chris Senior's mother, sits stoically in the courtroom. Her daughter hands her a tissue, even though she isn't crying yet. I'll talk about blood or biological evidence at this scene, they start with the pools of blood and an around a recliner in the living

room inside the front door. Just from what we saw, it's obvious that you can see what you could consider to be origins or a place that a person was in when the blood lighting event occurred. Did you take some swabs of the blood in front of that chair, Yes, sir, I did. Handshaw meticulously documented shoeprints in the dried blood in and around the area as well. Is it more likely for a shoeprint to be tracked or picked up in blood when that blood is wet or fresh as

opposed to dry and pool Absolutely. Yes. You said when you very first observed these footprints, they were already dry in the blood. Is that correct? Yes, they were. So you talk about preserving it, documenting it. How do you go through actually photographing it and then ultimately collecting any shoe runs in this scene? Yes, they we're all photographed and documented as they were as they were when they

were found. And when you talk about detail, what's standing out to you where you're like, Oh, they may be able to do something with this. What's actually standing out to me at that particular time was the fact that can I stand again, please, in this area of the shoe, I'm not seeing any kind of wear pattern at all. That meant something to me. The supernt evidence could not be shown to anyone outside the courtroom because Judge Steering ordered media not to show any photos that included blood.

Sitting through this testimony, victims families are of course emotional. One family member looks down, not wanting to see what comes next. Here again, James Filcher don't want to shock the jury, but they also don't want to offend the family. There's been some serious tension between the media and the family and the prosecution that's borne out on some of these motions and some of these other things that we're seeing because we think everything should be shown. I mean,

blood is blood. They're bloody crime scenes. This is what happened. You got to know how these people died. You got to see it. I mean, it's part of a murder trial. And there's eight victims, all shot multiple times, so it's part of the deal. In this same area of the living room, you identify that as being on the floor. Did you also find what appeared to be blood splatter on the wall? Yes, we did. Is there anything that sticks out to yether with respect any directionality of that

blood or anything like that. First of all, there's a lot of blood stains on this wall, and in my training that all of these stains from what I see are descending stains, which means they are traveling down when they struck this wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, that is an indication of a lot of anger, because you would think that anybody that was familiar enough with firearms that would show up into some counenvironment would also know

what kind of forces being brought there. With just one shot, you should be able to recognize that you don't really need that many. But for some reason, the perpetrator found it necessary to lay into Chris Senior, specifically to make sure that he was totally completely eradicated that he would not rise again. How did you take that swab? Where'd you submitted to and was that eventually submitted to the

lab for DNA testing? I believe that eventually it was submitted for DNA testing to determine actually which victim's blood. This was the swabs from the staining contained in that exhibit. The living room of four zero seven seven Unionville Road, also depicted in photo ID number eighteen, tested positive for blood and the DNA profile of the blood from this swab contains Chris Rodent Senior's DNA. One family member barries are facing their hands, another covers her mouth and whips

of tears. If Chris Senior was still alive lying on the floor at the next bit of evidence may explain what happened in the last moments of his life. As you were doing your examination of this area, did you also find a projectile strike in the floor by that rocker recliment, Yes, sir, It was quite some time later before I felt that we were at a point in our processing and our investigation that I was able to

move that chair. When we did move the chair, that's when it was we noticed that there was a bullet hole or suspected bullet hole in the floor right next to the chair. It appeared that it was going from above down. We knew that it came from inside going down toward the floor, and assumed that it may have exited under the mobile home. Todd Fortner explains further, and at some point, did you actually use rods to try to determine the angle that that bullet may have gone

through that floor? Yes, it's a fairly steep downward angle, so the muzzle of the weapon was fairly close. A second hole was found here, and the rod then will extend downward through that hole. And did you find again that second hole to be in line or in trajectory with that first hole that you expect the riding Yes. Were you able to track that hole through that joice beneath that trailer, yes, we were able to track it

down into the ground. At that point, another agent, Durst, crawled under the trailer and recovered one of the bullets. What did you notice about that projectile? What it was a hollow point. Appeared to be a pistol projectile that had not expanded. Basically, the way a hollow point bullet works is a softer substance. Human tissue is designed to go in and expand those metal pedals out in order

to create a larger wound track. Joseph Scott Morgan. Most people when they think of a bullet projectile, they'll think of will refer to as a ball ammunition that's a bullet that kind of has a rounded nose on it. That's kind of the traditional image that you think about. So if you have a forty caliber round that's being fired out of a weapon, forty caliber is pretty much what you're going to get with ball ammunition that can deform and all those sorts of things, But the diameter

of a round is not going to change that much. However, when you start talking about a hollow point, what happens is that once that round passes out of the end of the muzzle and it winds up on its targeted area, these little the only way I can really describe it, are these little wings essentially kind of deploy. You have a forty caliber round that suddenly deploys out upwards a forty five caliber. Fortner explains why the bullets they found

didn't deploy. If it hits something hard for instance, would concrete, potentially even bone, before hitting enough of a quantity of soft tissue to expand, it will basically just dent the front of it and it will keep going and it will basically become a non hollow point projectile. Of the training experience that I didn't hit like soft tissue. Yes, the bullets themselves kind of speak to you. As a

Cromp scene investigator. I do recall something where the actual sequencing of the gunfire tells a story this vividly because you get an idea of when this horror is just visited upon Chris Senior along with Gary, there's an awareness, I think you know that the world is kind of blown apart inside of this home. His arm was mangled, and so he's writhing in pain on the floor, and then you see these other rounds that come from another weapon and they pump them into his body. His life

andrew right there on the floor. Sadly, it seems Gary Roden suffered a similarly terrifying end. Agent Henshaw found his glasses and baseball cap nearby in the kitchen. Hanshaw opens another envelope and pulls out Gary Roden's bloodstained hat. As you examine that hole or perforation from the outside, did you notice any blowout or any frame of that hole on the back there that indicated that it was an exit wound as opposed to an entrance hole. Appeared to

be what I initially thought it could be. Okay, let me ask you this at some point. Did you later learn that when that idol is being examined, a possible piece of a projectile fell out of it? Yes? Were you able to look at that hat and possibly track where that bullet had actually come out at the front of the hat. At this point, George Wagner's face reddens and he clenches his jaw. And again, does it appear that that area that hat has been pulled or torn

or ripped away from the hat? The bill area there? Yes? Sor it does here again? And instigative reporter James Pilcher, followed by medical forensics examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. Somebody shot Gary rode it in the back of the head. The bullet went through his head and then knocked his cap off, and the bullet lodged in the bill of his cap. Once hell begins to rain down, you know where all of this is occurring. The door bust open. How did he react at that moment? Top? Was he in total shock?

Did he have an awareness? Did he know that Chris Senior screamed out as his arm was kind of blown apart? Did he rush to his side? And we don't really know that part, but in my mind I'll imagine that, you know, the same person that exerted dominance over Chris Senior. Potentially it would have been very easy, as Gary is kind of tending to this dear family member, is for somebody to have just simply ended his life execution style as he stands over this round into the back of

this head. Can you tell us what we're looking at and where we're heading there A two, one, four. We'll be standing in this general area again this seeing the kitchen chairs here, and you're beginning to see blood patterns. At some point, did you continue to move through that residence back towards the back bedroom where the bodies were, Yes, sir, I did. He found Chris and Gary at the foot

of the bed covered in a blanket. After taking photos of the entire room, Handshaw carefully removed the blanket to further document the bodies. You tell us what's depicted in this picture and what you're trying to show, trying to show the original position of the hands of the victim. The victims family members are having an incredibly hard time with the graphic photos. Someone allowed them elves to look up at the screen where the photos are being projected.

Others weep openly A four to fifty once again as a photograph of our victim's hand, showing obviously blood and some the condition of the clothing as well. Okay, when we're talking, victim is just the big first victim, Chris rod Yes, it is. When you look at his body position, did you find his arms would be up over his head and his sweatshirt rolled back over his head. Yes. When they got to Gary and Chris Senior's bodies to do their examinations, their hands were above their heads and

their shirts sweatshirts were pushed up. Now for us, that's an indication that a body has been drug Yes, this would be the arm of Gary Rodin, and it extends out parallel with the bed and there's saturation stains or a large amount of flood on the exterior of the jacket. In that photograph, you can see a lot of blood around the mouth and those discoloration around the eyes, and then what I thought appeared to be a bullet hole

near the ear. And did you continue to document or get closer pictures of what you believed to be a bullet hole? Yes, sir, I did. What is the purpose of taking those pictures with respect to that body at the seat. I want to document this as much as possible. I can't control what anybody else does after these bodies are taken out of my care or after I'm going, so I want to document them as they were, as

I found them. To essentially settle back and understand. Anything that I do with the bodies, I can move it slightly and it takes it completely out of context. So he was probably direct to tell your people to take the bodies out this specific way, and you know, when it comes to Chris Senior and Gary, that's important. Hanshaw testifies that along with the photographs, his team took hundreds of blood sample swabs from the home and the bodies of Chris and Gary Rodin. They also used what is

called a forensic vacuum. Tell the jury what a forensic vacuum is and how a forensic vacuum works. That's relatively sample. We have a small vacuum that are designated for that purpose, and that purpose only would be able to look for trace evidends such as hairs, fibers, anything residual that might have been left behind. From there, we would seal that bag and then I normally would put that bag in another bag and put my label and my signature on it.

If I'm wearing a mask of hood and gloves, is that going to impede my DNA from going somewhere where you're going to vacuum up with your forensic vacuum. Yes, it can. If Andy Wilson drags those bodies to the back of the bedroom and I've got gloves on, Am I gonna leave touch DNA? Most likely not, But you do that anyways just in case. Is that correct? Yes, at that particular time, you have no idea if a suspect was wearing gloves or not wearing gloves. Here's Jeff

speaking with Joseph Scott Morgan. Here we are a couple of weeks into the trial. The prosecution still has this a DNA problem. The more cases that cover, personally, the more I hear this cry, you know, from the public, where's the DNA? Was the DNA? Jurors walk in and they are expecting DNA and every single case and I'm sorry, that's not accurate. It's not going to happen every single time.

You know, if you have a barrier between your hand and the surface that you placed that hand upon, there is not much of an opportunity for you to shed these dead skin cells that will have an incomplete strand of DNA in them. It makes it difficult for the prosecution. Let's stop here for another break. After hours of testimony centered on blood and projectile evidence in the home, the prosecution turns to Chris Senior's garage and the space above it.

Investigator Henshaw was initially drawn to the security cameras we thought it appeared as though it were pointing toward the residents. Okay, at some point, did that pe your interest to try to go find a DVR or recording device that might be linked to that bammer? Yes, we attempted to look for any kind of according device that would have maybe documented what happened or given us some idea I would trace the wire's back. They led inside and we found nothing,

no recording device connected to this system. They tested the disconnected wires for DNA in case the perpetrators had handled them. There was nothing. But the door into the building also stood out to h and Handshaw. Did you examine that door a little more further for other evidence or the possibility about two things stood out to me? One as it appeared as though there was fourth century, which would be consistent with the door handle lying on the upper

surface of the porch. And the second thing is that appeared to be a transfer, a small transfer of blood on the exterior face of that door. This doesn't look like a spatter pattern. It looks like a transfer pattern. The difference would be a transfer would be if I had blood on my hand and I touched this paper or something else and then moved it away, I probably wouldn't leave blood that I transferred from my hand onto

that surface. Did you eventually take steps to identify that according to your BCI numbers and try to collect that blood for further testing. Yes, those swabs were sent to the lab for testing that stain. Are those swabs tested positive for the presence of blood and the blood contained in those swabs contained the DNA of Gary Rodent. The defense has a few questions for either of the BCI agents,

but they do offer one final stipulation. When things are stipulated to, it is an agreement that's entered into between defense counsel and prosecution that they will stipulate to that bit of evidence that they're not going to argue it am not going to debate it during this time. The parties have another stipulation. All right, put that on the record.

Then yes, the parties will stipulate and agree that with respect to four zero seven seven Union Hill Road, none of the evidence collected or examined with respect to that scene contained any DNA that was linked to George Wagner, this defendant, Jake Wagner, Angela Wagner, or Billy Wagner. That's crazy. That's the voice of Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson, conceding there was no DNA evidence linking any of the Wagner family to the site where relatives found Chris Roden Senior and

his cousin Gary dead in April twenty sixteen. There's no DNA evidence. People who are not involved in the system. It's the first thing either their mouse well, d have DNA anag well for me, the shoeprints tell everything. We've been using shoeprints for over one hundred years now. I mean, it's been accepted in courtrooms in a lot of different places as valid science. It was a massacre, but it didn't seem as though they went back to kind of

cover their traces. I think they did take a lot of steps, but there's no such thing as the perfect crime. The term criminal mastermind is kind of an etymoron because criminals generally aren't masterminds, and they often make mistakes which lead to say that conviction, and this is one of those examples. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram

at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Masaker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Scott de Graw, Andrew ar Now, Gabriel Castillo and me Whertney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tis. Music by Jared Aston. The piked In Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.