In Their Own Words

In their own words, I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Hayti Studios, along with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's been a revealing, gut wrenching trial thus far. While the jury has heard reams of incriminating evidence against Shake Wagner, we must remember that Jake, who's already played guilty, is not the one on trial. Thus far, the testimony against George Wagner himself has been far more scant. There's no DNA evidence that puts George at the Roden's homes on

the night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. There's also no evidence that George was implicated in Jake's custody battle with Hanname Roden. On the other hand, the defense has thus far failed to produce an alibi for where George was during the night of the killings. It's important to note that George Wagner the fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff.

It appears that Angie Kinnebre, the special prosecutor, is really telling us a story right now, painting a picture about the lives of the Wagners, how they were incredibly a mesh together, But so far nothing very specific that implicates George specifically to that night. What the prosecution is trying to do is really paint the picture all four of them were in on this together from the start. And look, we've heard a lot of different stories about the Wagner family.

They technically operated like a mob or like a cult in that Angela Wagner was very controlling and had a very odd relationship with both of her boys, specifically George. But again, those might paint a messy picture of a family, But does that mean that George is guilty of mass murder. I have to assume there's more evidence to come. That kind of piggybacks on a point I want to bring up,

which is just how many witnesses there are. As we have seen, the state is really telling a full story from start to finish, which includes a lot of people that don't on the surface, have anything to do with the actual night in question. I spoke to legal analysts and expert Mike Allen about this, and he said that the amount of witnesses is completely up to the prosecution.

They can have three or three hundred, it's all up to them, and all they have to do is provide a witness list to the judge and defense during the discovery process. There has to be some level of jury fatigue, right, so three hundred witnesses would be pretty extreme if we're telling a peripheral story. Judge during did have to approve each witness, so he clearly thinks that something about it

is acceptable enough to be allowed in the courtroom. It's just a really interesting spot to be at in the trial. Where is it one thing to hear bad things and to know that, frankly, the wagoners may have just been very bad people. Is that enough or do we need to have more evidence, specifically putting George at the scene. I'm so curious about how that plays out. The following testimony digs deeper into the Wagner clan and also uncovers testimony that for the first time, shows that George was

in fact in his family stall. Good afternoon, How are you good? Can you please stay tr name? And why don't you go ahead and spell your first name and spell your last name? Alan Holdron pseudo r E Y h L d Rien Corey. How old are you be? Thirty next month? Nine? And can you tell us where you live? You okay? Corey Holdron was Hannahme Rodin's boyfriend at the time of her death. When they began dating, Hannahme was pregnant with her daughter, who she shared with

ex boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Corey Holdron committed to Hannah because he wanted a family and was in love with Hannah Me. She's no love with man's in love with her. I mean, she's the best thing about me really was in our relationship. We never thought. She helped me through everything. And can you tell us at the time that you started seeing her did you have an addiction prob Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll try and to paint pills. And she laid by my side, said on the side, through the whole withdrawals

and all the everything, you know what I mean. Nobody would do that. Nobody does that unless she loves somebody. And she did got me through at all. And and you did you make a commitment to her unborn child as well? Yeah, because well she wasn't with Jake, she was separated from him, and she said it wasn't his. She told me who he was whose It was Charlie Gillies, which Hannon's brother. I was dying for her family, you

know what I mean. And I told him that if he agrees to step back and just let me, you know, don't all of us, that I would take care of her and I would name her. And so I did. I named her Britain cut of I cut up in bill upboard. I was the first one to hold her. So you stayed with her rap for pregnancy. And you were actually at the hospital when she gave her yeah,

up to the day water actually yeah, yeah, um. And did you also go to some of her appointments with her prior to Yeah, According to Corey Holdron, Hannah May was also a devoted mother to the little girls she shared with Jake Wagner. This is your great mom. Yeah, she's really moment and ever senior odor and every senior hat or nothing like that. Corey continues speaking about when Jake Wagner brought the toddler he shared with Hannah May

to see her newborn sister in the hospital. During this visit, Jake implied that the baby could be his because she had a toe shaped like him and his family members. I didn't make a fussing out or anything. He was just all the different though, dark hair, dark black hair,

like I don't know, it was just different. He's got a holder and everything like like it was it like it was his thought ye like like I don't know he thought it was his maybe Okay, And do you remember any comments um that he made about any of the physical characteristics, something about her toe like like something wages wagoner thing. I don't know what was wrong with it. I hadn't seen hithing wrong with it, but commented something about her toby and a Wagoner thing. Yeah, we're going

to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. When Corey Holdron learned from Kenneth Roden's daughter Kendra, that the love of his life, Hanname Rodin, was killed. He was in shock. I got a It was around eight maybe it was literally than that, but I learned. My sisters and me and her wife got in her truck and we went to Quarter Lmber. Like I kept seeing like helicopters and like cops and like crazy like passing us going back the other way. I think nothing of it,

you know what I mean. I've went to the quarter, we got the Carter Lamber and by the time we got there and pulled in, Kindred called me and said that something happened that I needed to get to her house. Now. She went up from telling me really what happened, She said, they're gone, what's up? Mant? So I had my sister's wife turn them around and go there. So we went down Instead of down thirty two, we went down seven

seventy two the way the backside, you know. And by time I got on her road, they stopped this right by her brother's house. And I've seen her grandma and her grandma to me, she was going all right, just got of froze, like I didn't and I feel anything and I understained it. Yeah. Corey explained that he, Hannah May, and Kendra all went fishing together before the night of

the murders. It was a rainy afternoon and Hannah was all smiles as she railed in a big catfish, but the mood soured when Jake Wagner texted Hannah to see if he could watch their daughter for the night. Here's Anteinette Levy, reporter for Law and Crime. Hannah Mae had just given birth to her newborn daughter and apparently wanted to get out of the house, so they had someone watched the newborn and they were out fishing and Jake Wagner actually she said, which I thought was pretty stunning.

Kendra said that Jake texted Hannah May and offered to keep How chilling is that? Here again, Stephanie and Jeff, we've heard a lot about Corey Holdron over the years, have never personally connected to him. We have reached out over the years, but respectfully didn't want to push so hard. So his testimony is so interesting to me. First of all, we've always heard that he is so kind and so nice and so sweet and was so in love with Hannah May, so you can only imagine the destruction that

has come for him thereafter. We've heard over the years multiple times the story about Jake Wagner visiting Hannah May in the hospital with her newborn baby, but to hear it firsthand with Corey Holdron on the stand in the courtroom is a much different experience. Following Corey Holdron, another witness came to the stand and offered explosive testimony, this time very focused on George Wagner, the fourth. It was the first and a critically important juncture in the trial

where George's character came under scrutiny. The witness is Tabitha Clayton, George's ex wife. She had a highly volatile and trema of history with the accused murderer. Like Jake and Hannah, Tabitha and George were embroiled in their own custody battle over their son. Tabitha and George met when Tabitha's mother was working for the Wagner matriarch, Frederica at her Flying w farm. Pierre married in two and twelve, had a son in the summer of twenty thirteen and lived with Angela,

Jake and Billy Wagner. Tabitha and George ultimately divorced in twenty fifteen. Tabitha explains how being with George came with a litany of rules and restrictions that came down from Angela Wagner life was taxing. Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa, examining Tabitha on the stand, if you could just tell us with the family dynamics, word they are when you lived with the Wagner's very strange and controlling. Okay, So you said previously that you were not allowed to visit

your family and your family was not permitted to visit you, correct? Yes? And who made those determinations? It was Angela's house, so's hurdles? And so are you saying that it was Angela's choices? Yes? Okay? And did George go along with those choices? Yes? And can you tell us you said Angel's house Angela's rules that apply to anything other than just your family coming

and going. It applied basically everything, So tell us about that cooking, cleaning, laundry, and what do you mean by that it all had to be done the way that she wanted it or you have to either redo it or she'll just do it or something. Angela Wagner had a ban on certain types of sex that should be allowed within George and Tabitha's marriage. In contrast, according to

she also crossed boundaries with her son George. According to Tabitha, every night, Angela Agner would kick Tabitha out of the bedroom she shared with George so that Angela could have some alone time with her son. She would scratch his back while they caught up on the day. What were the rules that Angela had for the types of sexual relations you could engage in with your husband. He wasn't allowed to give blow jobs because you'd go to hill and you had to only have sex to have children.

And is that something that she said to you? She said it to me and George wooth okay when you were together. Yes. Where would you be when those conversations would occur, usually at the kitchen table or in the bedroom? Whose bedroom George's okay? And would you stay in George's

bedroom as long as I was allowed to? Yes? So when you say, as long as you were allowed to tell me what you're talking about, well, towards the end of the night, she would you usually have me leave so she could sit there and scratch his back and talk about the day. So Angela would come into the room that you shared with her husband, Yes, and she would ask you to leave, and then she would scratch his back and talk about the day. Yes. How frequent

of an occurrence was that every night? And after she was done with that, would you return to the room. Yes. After you had your son, where would he sleep most of the time? He would sleep with Angela and Billy? And again was that your choice? No? Where did you want your son to sleep with me in my bed or at least in the crib that was bought for him? Okay? And where was that crib located next to my bed? And who made the decision that he would sleep with

Angela and Billy instead of with you? George and Antela? Can you tell us, or I guess I should say, had you ever shared with George that you had been sexually abused as a child? I did, but only because he had found up by somebody else. Can you tell us what was George's reaction to that? He was mad. He said he was going to go kill him and I told him know and I said on him until he had come down the Wagner's rules tightened around Tabitha

after they learned she had cheeved on George. From Tabitha's point of view, her infidelity was a reaction to the family suffocating way of life. Was there a time when you were unfaithful to George after you were married? Yes? Okay? And was it during the time that you were working at Crystal Springs? Yes? Did George and the rest of them we only find out about that. Yes, you ultimately told them. Yes. And at that point did the restrictions in your life get even more sitier? Yes? Tell us

what happened then? I had gotten let go for my job. George took my phone from me and factory he said it, gave it to his mom. I wasn't allowed to answer the house phone, or check the mill, or go outside by myself. And when you informed them of this at that time where you pregnant, yes, okay. So you remained at the home with the Wagner's Yes, And then you remained there until profimbly a year after your sent was born. Correct. Yes. Did you feel when you were there that you could

parent your child in the way that you wanted to? No, tell us about that. Every night before we went to bed, I would be made to go take a nap while angel would played with Misson. So again, just more of the her spending time with your child that you want to to spend time with. Yes, okay. Did you ever tell George or have any discussions with him about wanting to have your own place and no longer living with the extended family? Yes? Okay? And what was his response?

That we lived on a farm, so we needed to live together. He was not interested in moving out. Here's Stephanie. We met Tabitha's sister and her mom years ago and they've always think of this picture about what life was like for Tabitha. We've also reached out to her over the years. This is a very big moment hearing her testimony for the first time. Now finally hearing from her. I mean, imagine she's facing the person who is on trial,

her ex husband. She's going to have to lock eyes with him and really tell some stories, perhaps for the very first time. Again, it asks the question if Angela Wagner had a very strange relationship with her sons. You know, we've always heard this over the years, that she would cuddle with them and she would alienate the women who came into their lives aka Tabitha also Hannah may rodin what does that mean? Does that matter? If George didn't

commit this murders, then none of this matters whatsoever. He was perhaps a bad husband, but again that doesn't make him a murderer. But if he did do it and is convicted, this certainly paints a very clear picture of a destructive and dysfunctional home. But none of it really guarantees that George was there, or that George was a trigger puller. Let's stop here for another break. One night thing spun out of control. After Tabitha didn't do the dishes that Angela had told her to do, George Wagner

turned physically abusive. Tabitha says, this is the first testimony we've heard about him being violent. Tell us, I'm Tabitha. We have talked a little bit about how long you stayed there, what made you leave? When you left, me and George were in an argument in the slap okay, And if you can tell us, first of all, do you recall when that happened? A couple of months after son's first birthday? Okay? And when was your son born? Again? Is that July of twenty thirteen, you said, a few

months after his first birthday? Yes, And can you tell us what led up to that argument? Me not cleaning the kitchen after Angela had made lunch. After Angela had done what made lunch? Okay? And so tell us about that. How did you know you were supposed to do that? She told me to get it cleaned up while her and Hannah went to pick up a toy for the kids. And did you do that? Why not? Because my son would woke up, so I led with him to take

a nap so he could take a nap. Was your son already napping at the time that, Yes, Angela asked you to do that. Okay, And we are where the rest of the people were, with Jake and George at that time. They were I think Jake was with Billy driving the truck and George was building the shed that is beside the house. Okay, Angela and Hannah come back and see that it didn't clean up the mess. So what happens then when me and Angelis said, don't argue, okay,

did you explain to her what had happened? M And what happened then George didn't like that I was yelling at his mother? How did you know he didn't like that? What happened? He came in and started smacking me with a boat. And we are in the house. Were you at that time in the kitchen doorway? And what happened? Then we went to the bedroom and when you see me, who do you mean? Me and George? And what happened there? He abjected your honor or basics? O? Um? What happened

in the bedroom? Um? I was gonna go out and sit on the porch so I could calm down and not be so angry. So you wanted to go outside to just be by yourself, calmed down and not be as angry? Yes, okay? Were you permitted to go outside? You know? How were you not permitted to go outside? George stood in front of the door and went let me okay? And what did you do at that point? I beat him and try to ribe his nuts off.

When you say you bit him? Where did you bite him on his arm up towards his arm, pitt okay? And why did you bite that area at his arm? What was he doing at that point? He had his door and his arm against the door. Not let me go through it. Did he let you pass? At that point he grew up a hold of these nuts, so his arm moved, So that's whenever I ran out the door. And then what did you do? I started walking through the yard, and then George and Angela came outside to

try to tell me to come back inside. And what happened outside? I told him that I was not going to go back inside, that I was going to leave, and so Angela threw aboard at me and then told George that she's going to go inside and get a gun. When you say she threw aboard at you? What kind of a board? All right too? By four? And both Angela and George were outside with you at that point, yes, okay, and then Angela says she's going to go get a gun. Yes.

At any point outside, did George have physical contact with you? Yeah, before the argument got really worse, we were outside and we were arguing, and he told man, I needed to stop screaming. Where I was going to smack me, and so I screamed out and so he smacked me. And where did he smack you in the face? And then what was your response to that? And I told him that he just signed his divorce papers. That he just

signed his door papers because he smacked you. Yes. So when Angela says she's going to go get a gun, what do you do? I continue going to on the yard and through the fence, and I hid underneath the George's truck. And to your knowledge, where were for angel At? I assume they were going in to get whichever gun they chose. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram

at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wieterer, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff ta Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.