What stands out to me is just the sheer massiveness of this thing and the absolute brutality in his thing. These were real human beings who lost their lives, and it's not just what happened to them, but they were actual people. Legal fireworks are upted in court as George Wagner the Force attorneys trying to put a sudden end to his trial and the Pike County massacre we would ask for this trial basically gruesome photos that shown to three.
He knows these photographs are coming, So I don't know how much of this was rooted in legal practice and how much of it is rooted in theatrics. This is the Pike to Masker Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode seven. Everybody Has a Story. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's the middle of George Wagner the fourth trial, and it's important to note that he has pleaded not guilty
and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony from investigators and relatives has painted a very real portrait of what the crime scenes look like. But on this day of the trial, no one could have imagined the gruesomeness they would face. Listener morning. This episode covers a particularly graphic portion of
the court testimony. Discretion is strongly advised you soldomnly swear or from that the testimony you were about to give Hill your truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Did you show answer? Unto God? Who? Prosecutor Auntie Kinneppa and her team called doctor Karen Lumin to the stand. Lumin is a forensic pathologist who carried out autopsies on all eight of the victims. Wednesday, she talked about examining Chris senior son Frankie Rodin, and as fiance Hannah Gilly.
Both were found shot to death in their bed inside a mobile home, with their infant son left alive between them. The eight deceased members of the Rodin family were discovered on a Friday. Once investigators for BCI were done processing the crime scenes, the bodies were removed and transported for autopsy, and that you did the females first. On April twenty third, that seems Saturday, Yes okay, And would you have done that first thing in the morning? Yes, okay? And what
time is it? Says six o seven am. Here's James Tilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local twelve. She got the call firsting Saturday morning. She starts in she had to do eight autopsies in three days, but she actually did three on one day, and then another four on another day, and then another one on Monday. And these weren't just you're running the mill autopsies. I don't
know what she must have gone through that weekend. And knowing they're all one family, we're all like talking amongst ourselves, how are we going to handle our own mental health through all of this? I can imagine what she's going through. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. You're talking about
multiple gunshot wounds and lots of evidence trace evidence. To recover each one of these autopsies would have taken a couple of hours because it would have been X rays, external photographs, removal of clothing, searching for trace evidence on the clothing in place, documentation of the clothing, documentation of the holes in the clothing, the defects and the clothing, the bloodstains on the clothing, all of those measurements. And we haven't even made it to the body yet. Just
let that sink in. So can you imagine how exhausting this would be and how draining this is psychically? Based on a quick review of doctor Lehman's work, she does not shy away from emotionally challenging cases. She has performed autopsies and testified in many murder trials, including those of toddlers. On the stand, she appears relaxed and direct. Can you tell us what we are looking at? This is a photograph of Hannah Hazel as we open the body bag.
That's a picture of Hannah's chest showing her bra and she has a maternity bra and the hooks for the front of the bar open and her breast is exposed in that photograph. And do you see libermortis in that picture? There is some livermortis in the picture. Yes, here again, Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, when you begin to think about libra mortis, it's probably one of the most solid fallback positions when it comes to judging post mortem interval. And
the reason is is that it's totally gravitationally dependent. It's not impacted by temperature setting. The blood is impacted only only by gravity. So the blood will actually pool in the lowest depended area. And it's very simple to explain. Just just think for a moment. If you've got a cup of water. If you pour that cup of water out into the sink, well, what's it going to seek. It's going to see the lowest point of gravity, and in the case of the sink, it's going to be
the drain. So just imagine, if you will, there's a body line flat, which we would call the sup hind position line flat on the back face upwards. Well, the blood is going to pool into those dependent regions in the back on the posterior. We can tell how long someone has been down within two to three hours essentially, when we apply all of these components, whether it's the rigidity of the body, the temperature of the body, and
more specifically the postmorum molbidity, the settling of blood. Can you tell us if the liver mortist that you see in that is consistent with her laying mostly on her stomach kind of to the right side on the right, Yes, on the right side. Yes, what parts of the body did you notice injuries too? I'm miss Gilly Hannah Hazel head injuries only to her head. How many gunshot wounds did Hannah Hazel have? Five lumin examines an X ray of Hannah has Lagilli's head and explains you can see
the round orbits where the eyes are. You can see where teeth are at the bottom, and then you can see four relatively larger white radio opaque things on the right side of the head. Those are bigger bullets. They are deformed, so you see their funny different shapes. They're deformed because they struck the bone. And then you see there's tiny little pieces of metal above those four pieces. And on the other side by the left eye, those are all tiny little fragments of bullet. Joseph Scott Morgan.
You know they won't show certain photographs in court, or they'll because the defense will say they're prejudicial. One of the most beautiful things that you can do is show X rays. Because X rays don't have blood, they don't have gore. You don't see bodies blown apart. You might see fractured bone, but it's black and white. And then anything that is radio opaque. You see that, and suddenly the snowstorm appears before you, and they look like little
white dots everywhere, and those are fragments of bullets. And that is powerful when the jury looks at that, and everybody knows their brain is in the top part of their head, inside of their skull, and you see it. You know, white bulb goes off and said, oh my god, look in the brain. You can see the little dots where all of that the bullet fragment and just ripped this body to shreds. But photographic evidence follows warning. Some of this discussion is incredibly graphic. In that photograph. I'm
looking at her left eye. There's some clotted blood that you see along the margin of her eye. The blood that's in her mouth is not an injury. It's blood that's there because of the fractures to the skull. It actually fractures the sinus bones and then the sinuses bleed down the back of the throat passively. Hey, and it almost looks like her tooth is black, but that's actually blood that's clouded blood. Yes, there are a lot of people that you know, want to turn a blind eye
to the horror of this. You cannot escape it. There's no way to. You know, Church this up within the context of the graphic detail lost the story, and you know people as desperately as they want to turn away from it, you have to stare at it. You have to stare at it and assess it. You have to get past the horror of it. But you have to understand this. Every person that died deserves deserves to have their story told. I think that it is unmanageable for
the family. Hearing this graphic testimony from the corner, and also hearing Joseph Morgan's take on it, we forget they too are human beings who are seeing carnage and blood and bodies so regularly. We assume anybody who works in this space get used to seeing in that level of gore. But that's simply not the case here Again, Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa, do you have an opinion as to whether or not her eye would have been opened or closed at the time that she was shot her eyes because
it at least got part of her eyelids. I believe her eyelids were mostly closed. The fact that it didn't get the upper eyelid, it could be. You know, some people sleep with their eyes slightly open. It could be that our eyes are slightly open. It could also be their eyes are fully open. And it only got the bottom lit so it did not go through the top eyelid. That's correct. So I can't tell technically if she was
asleep or awaken. And did you ultimately or can you tell us what distance did you determine that was because we could see stipling. That's an intermediate gunshot wound. Okay? And that intermediate again, is that three inches to three yes? And do you have an opinion as to the effect that would have had on Hannah Hazel? Yes? And what is that opinion? She would have been immediately unconscious, okay?
And why do you say that the bullet not only causes injury, but there's also kinetic energy that travels with the bullets. It's shaking up the brain. It takes a lot to break the bones in the skull too. There's a lot of concussion trauma. So not only is it damaging her eye, but the brain is damaged as well, and so she would become unconscious. This is only the description of the first gunshot. The bullet ended up in the frontal lobe of the brain. You can also see
she's got some blood coming from her left ear. That's a sign that the bones inside the head, especially the bone where your inner ear is broken, then you bleed outside your ear. So that's what you're seeing. Kneppa and Luman go through each individual round, all five shots, and the damage each bullet did to Hannah Hazel Gilly's body. Here's legal analyst Mike Allen. What stands out to me is just the absolute brutality of this thing. I mean, it's stunning how brutal it is. Shot in the face.
I mean, testimony about a baby nursing at his mother's breast and she's shot. I mean, you think about Hannah laying in bed with that child, and just the pravity of someone doing that. It's really hard to imagine. All in all, doctor Luman extracted four bullets from Hannah Hazel's head. The fifth grazed her skull, creating a whole and a partial bullet wound. During testimony. Reporter James Pilcher reported live from outside the courtroom. Frankie was shot three times in
the head. Earlier Wednesday, Todd Fortner with the Oha Bureau of Criminal Investigation finished testifying about processing that crime scene on Union Hill Road, saying he found five spent shelf casings in the couple's bedroom. Frankie Rodin was lying in bed with Hannah Hazel Gilly a pair of blue boxer shorts the only clothing he was wearing. They were soaked with blood. Doctor Luhman holds up a paper bag with this evidence inside, but does not open it. She then
picks up a box. This is our bullet box where we put all of the projectiles in. I have it labeled from the head for Frankie and those represent the projectiles that you recovered from the head of Frankie Rodin on eight sixteen. And can you tell us did you notice any differences or similarities between those projectiles and the projectiles that you recovered from Hannah Hazel Gilly. Yes, Frankie was lying face up and was shot through the cheek, left temple and ear. Hannah Hazel was at his side
facing him. The shooter came into their room, facing the left side of the bed and opened fire. Despite the graphic nature of the work at hand, there were only positive reviews of Lumen's testimony. Here again, James Pulcher. I can tell you, at least from the feedback I've gotten from watching her, that she has really a lot of respect in the community for the respect she's treated the victims and their bodies and the autopsy and everything else.
But the next morning, it's not Lumen's testimony that is making news. Legal fireworks are uped in court as George Wagner the Force attorneys trying to put a sudden end to his trial and the Pike County massacre. We would ask for a mistrial based on gruesome photos that have been shown to the jury. Photos are only missile irrelevant disputation.
George Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker claims continuing to show the jury gruesome photos of the crime scenes and autopsies is inflammatory, specifically since the actual facts of how the victims died are not in question. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Here's Jeff speaking with James Pilcher. The defense is asking for a Mistriald, What do you make of that? Is that it's something
that's valid? Could they possibly get one? They are pulling every trick in the book that they can't to try to get this to start over, to delay it, to get the juryman to do whatever the latest thing. They don't want the prosecution to be able to show the pictures up on the screen. Here again, Joseph Morgan, What is kind of out out of left field is the idea that the defense attorney would ask for a mistrial
based on the nature of the photographs. Most of the time that that kind of stuff is handled in pre trial motion. You come to an agreement as to what photography is going to be used, and in the free trial motions there'll be a hearing. And they knew this was coming. This is not it's not like they just fell from the heavens and they're unaware. They know that these photographs are coming. So I don't know how much of this was rooted in legal practice and how much
of it is rooted in the address. It appears that Judge Deering agrees with the request for a mistriald denied. The prosecution moves on to crime Scene three, the home where Dana Roden, Hannah May Roden, and Chris Roden Junior were killed. The prosecution recalled BCI special agent Todd Fortner to the stand. Fortner had already testified earlier in the trial about evidence at Chris Senior and Gary's trailer. He took many of the photographs at Frankie Roden's house as well.
One n caught the eye of both the prosecution and defense was an open window on the backside of the home. As you look at State and did at B one thirty five, you testified about that air conditioner that appeared to have some grass on it out back. Can you see that air conditioner in that picture? Yes, just outside the window. The back of Frankie Roden's home has two windows. The open window in questions, it's about five to six feet up from the ground with two HVAC units blow in.
Interior photos are so next show the jury where that pictures taken from the what you're to packing in that picture. This again from the doorway here looking into the bedroom. You can see the clutter and the open window. Here Stephanie looking at these photographs and picturing this room and
where these windows are. An interesting detail too, I thought was that there was a bathtub and they must have been raising baby chicks because to keep them warm, there were little wood chips in the bathtub where the chicks were growing. And right beside that there was a toddler's pack and play, which we've all seen before, just kind of a haunting image against the grizzliness that took place
soon after. Also, you know, it raises the question there were so much stuff in and around where the windows are, it seems like it would have been very clumsy to get through that window. Special Agent Todd Fortner. And when you initially viewed that picture, did you think it was unlikely that anybody had to come from that window? Yes, so I felt it was less likely that someone came in without disturbing some of these items. However, it was
not impossible. Okay, So clearly somebody could have come through that window, but based on the way that those items appeared, nothing was knock over or disturbed or upside down. That correct. Correct. He gave it some thought and listened very carefully, and he opined that he didn't believe that that was case.
He said, it's not off the table, but you know, the space is so tight this window, you know that you would gain access to and there is no underlying area to kind of leverage yourself up onto the window seal. The defense tries to drive a wedge between the certainty of the prosecution and Fortner alluding to one Wagner who could have fit through that window, admitted murderer, Jake Wagner. You prepare to report in this case, right, Yes? And in your report you discussed looking for points of entry.
Do you recall that I do? And what is it you said about that as a potential point of interest. As I've already testified, I said, with the items there inside the window, I felt it was less likely to be a point of entry because it's such a tight squeeze to get through there and not disrupt those items. Even though you said it was unlikely based on your observations, was it impossible, No, it was possible. Like I said, it would take somebody smaller and more agile, but not impossible.
When he said that, I went back and kind of reflectively looked at the images of Jake, you know, back during that period of time. On some level, he's bulk here now, but back in sixteen he was a smaller person. Jay pit have made through it back then, but I think it's highly unlikely. There's another point that we have to consider here. If you go through a window, particularly one, you have to leap up to and kind of pull yourself through there, there would be some remnant of you.
Potentially a much higher probability is some remnant of you left behind in that small space you're trying to wiggle through. You testified that you didn't do any swabbing or DNA of that open window area as part of your work out there on that day. Is that correct? Correct? But did you find out or do you know that later as part of the investigation eventually that area was swabbed for DNA, Yes, it was. There was no DNA and
no fingerprints were covered in or around the window. Every contact leaves a trace, So everything that we do physically within the construct of a crime scene, if we touch surface, we're gonna leave some element of ourselves behind, whether it's an early fingerprint, whether it's a bit of fiber, whether it's a bit of touch DNA which is shedding skin. And to my way of understand, they didn't find any of that. The next morning, another attempt by the defense
to shut down the trial. Here's Judge Deering. A motion was filed earlier this morning, motion number one eleven, entitled motion for a mistrial. Thursday began with another attempt by Wagner's defense team to get a mistrial in the case. But as you did wednesday, Judge Randy Deering overruled that motion. Here again, Mike Allen on why the defense would file motions on back to back days. They're making a record. From what I understand, it was an oral motion the
day before yesterday. It was put in writing yesterday and filed and the judge heard the one that is in writing today. It's all about making a record in case there's an appeal again, Joseph Scott Morgan. If George's fauld, it's immediately going to go up on appeal. And I can promise you this is going to be a point which they're going to argue on appeal. They're going to say these photographs were so prejudicial, so over the top, that it's swayed in an inappropriate manner. A pain in
my client is some kind of monster. Soon after the exchange, Hamilton County Chief Deputy Corner Doctor Karen Lohman returned to the stand. Doctor Lohman, can you tell us what we are looking at there? So this is a side X ray of Dana's head. You can see she has some fillings in her teeth and she has one, two, three, four, about six large pieces of bullet and blood fragments in her head. Kneppa, seeing the graphic nature of the photo, pauses for many awkward seconds. Luman grimaces and looks down
while Kneppa decides what to do. She asked the judge to remove the photo from the in room screen. I'm gonna can you minimize seconds. I'm going to approach the exhibit with this next photo. If that's okay with Cord, I'm going to approach the victim with this next From here on in, she only shows doctor Lumen and the jury printed photos of the autopsies. Doctor, can you tell us when you did your examination of Dana Roden how
many gunshot wounds had she received? Five? Matriarch Dana Rodin was in a nightgown in bed when she was shot, and can you tell us we are was gunshot wound number one located on the diagram. Number one is on the far left. It looks like it's on the right forehead. It's a little more on the side of the forehead. It traveled across, following a relatively straight path to the left side of her head, struck the bone on the left side of her head, but did not exit and
then fell inside her skull to underneath her brain. And gunshot wound number two were that located, that is, closer to the center of the right forehead. Shot three was similar. The other two grazed her skull and shattered her jaw. And can you tell us do you have an opinion? Were the bullets in projectile that you recovered from Dana Rodin?
Was that consistent with the bullets and projectiles that you removed from Frankie Rodin and Hannah Hazel Kelly, Yes, okay, and inconsistent with the bullets and projectiles that you recovered from Chris Senior and Gary Rodin. Yes, that's correct. When initial photos of Hannahme Rodin in a body bag are presented to doctor Luhman, Angie Kaneppa immediately draws attention to a tattoo. There is what appears to be a tattoo close to the underwear line or the bikini line. And
can you tell us what those initials are? The initials are EJW. Kire Stephanie Hannah May Rodin on her body. She has a little tattoo with the initials E J W. On her hip. Those initials of course afore Edward Jake Wagner. That's Jake Wagner's legal name, and it just paints a picture. At one point she was deeply, deeply in love with him. This is a side view of Hannah's head. You can see that this long believe gated piece of metal and
a shorter one there. Those are the earrings that we saw previously in the previous picture, and then you can see some small radiopaque white pieces of bullet in her head. And when you conducted your examination of Hannah rode In, how many gunshot wounds did you observe her to have? Here? Again, Reporter James Pilcher, Hannah was the main target because she was the one holding up the issues with the custody. And yet she only got shot twice and the rest
were you know, Dana got shot five times. It makes no sense. Hannime Rodin was shot in the upper left back of her head and behind her left ear. She was found resting facing away from the door to her bedroom. So, if for instance, somebody comes in through here, this individual sees that person and then turns away either instinctively to because they see a gun and order to protect the child that's laying in better with them. Are the injuries and the pathways that you saw to her head consistent
with that? Yes? Did you observe the shirt to be any certain position? Yes? And what was that position? The shirt was pulled up over the right breast. And did you actually have some other abnormal finding when you did the internal examination of Hannah Rodin or an additional finding? Yeah, not necessarily abnormal, but yes, additional findings. And what was that?
One of them was that she was lactating and the other was that her uterus was enlarged because she'd just given birth several days before, so it takes a while for your uterus to shrink back down. So I could tell that she had recently given birth. Back in twenty sixteen, the weekend after the murders, Karen Lehman returned to the mark on Sunday after spending an entire Saturday with the bodies of Dana, Hannah Hazel and Anime. Chris Junior was
the first body she examined that day. The fifteen year old was found lying on his stomach covered by a comfiter. There were four shots to the right side of his head and face. And is that consistent with the body being positioned this way and somebody coming up and shooting him from this side? Yes? Yes, Did you observe any exit wounds to Christopher Jr? No? Did you collect the projectile that you recovered from within his head? Yes? Okay, showing you what it's been Marcus dates exhibit K ninety
three if you can tell you about this. This is a bullet box labeled from the head and it's holding all of the bullets in one box that we collected at all topsy here again, James Pilcher seeing the crime scene photos of Chris Junior about mam me cry. I'm a parent of a fifteen, sixteen year old and to see him just lying dead in bed with a boothole on his forehead and purple was just not something I'd
ever want to see again. That afternoon, court adjourns for the week after hours of grilling testimony about crime scene. Three jurors who will decide George Wagner's Gilbert innocence have a lot to think about this weekend. Let's stop here for another break. Monday morning comes quickly for a tired panel of jurors. Doctor Lumin arrives for her final day of testimony. It's the final day bearing witness to the most grizzly details of how an entire branch of the
family tree was chopped off in one night. In a previous episode, we analyzed Kenneth Roden's crime scene, known as crime Scene four, in depth, but Karen Lumin adds additional detail. We had not heard about Kenny Roden's murder. Do you have it a painting within a reasonable degree medical certainty as to the cause of death of Kenneth? Yes? Hey, what would that be? Doctor? There was a single gunshot wing to the head. His eyes were closed because the
bullet went through his eyelids. This is where we found the bullet. It is a refrain she touched upon across her testimony. James Pilcher the moment said she could tell many of the victims died in their sleep. It became apparent looking at where the wounds were that it seemed that many of them were shot multiple times and never moved, never appeared to have reacted to other people in the house being shot as well. Here's Jeff speaking with Mike Allen.
It's more detail than we've ever gotten about the brutality of what happened to the Rodan family, and you know, there didn't appear to be much of a struggle, and she said, that's not normally the case. My guess is that there they probably were asleep, because I mean, if you hear a gunshot, or if you see somebody coming at you holding the gun or anything at that time of night, I think your suspicions would be raised if you didn't have any defensive wounds and nobody really resisted. Yeah,
it's it's it's hard to like picture it. I mean, I for sure it's many points too that that Jake was not alone in shooting them, Like there had to have been more than one shooter. I mean, if you think about if everyone was in bed, if you go to Dana's house, it's Dana, Hannah, and little Chris. So were there three shooters at the same time, you know, all counting down or could there be another reason no one woke up. They're getting further and further away from
tying it to the actual defendant. Here, we really got to get to the beginning when the plotting and planning in real conspiracy took place. And this is a fired bullet, A forty caliber. So the focus of testimony now is ballistics, the bullets that were found at each of those four crime scenes. It's part of a number of experts the state will be calling to show the jury the evidence
to tie it to the Wagner family. They have to show this because we learned today there was no Wagner family members DNA at any of those four crime scenes. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta
Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Maskers a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.