Devil in the Details

is still life and death. This is The Piked and Massacre Season four, Episode four, Devil in the Details. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. We've been following this case moosly for almost five years, and it's surreal to see it all begin to unravel in a brick red nineteenth century courthouse on Second Street in Waverley, Ohio, a cozy town

of four thousand on the Siota River. It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth who's currently on trial, has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. George Wagner the Fourth says he has absolutely nothing to do with the eight murders. His brother Jake and mother Angela have

pled guilty too. But the prosecution believes they can put George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings, or at least prove he was part of the murder conspiracy. Soon, Jake Wagner and Angela Wagner will take the stand against their family. Here's reporter James Pilcher. It depends on how believable the jury finds Jake and Angela, and is it possible that he works free Absolutely as possible. You never can tell. Jac has previously testified that George Wagner did

not kill anyone. What he and his mother Angela will say on the stand is anyone's guess. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Keep in mind, the prosecution believes that they can put George Wagner the Fourth at the scene of the killings, or at least they feel they can prove that he was part of the murder conspiracy. Prosecutor Angie Kinnepp. But you'll remember agreed in December twenty twenty ones hearing that

George Wagner the Fourth didn't kill anybody. However, unique to the state of Ohio, someone can be sentenced to death for an aggravated murder conviction and step It's an interesting distinction that we really want to make clear because it means that you can be convicted even if all you did was help plan or cover up the crimes. Jake and Angela have been proven to be liars in the past. Remember after the murders, they claimed their innocence and then

years later, of course, changed their story. So why should we believe them now. Pike County Sheriff Tracy Evans chose not to be recorded while testifying, which is rare for an elected official. We do know Evans told jurors he was the one who determined Dana Rodin had been shot to death after removing a blanket and pillow that was

covering her head. One key witness who agreed to be recorded was Miranda Cable, a registered nurse and paramedic who responded to the call at Frankie Rodin and Hannah Gilly's house. She's one of the first responders to testify about the crime scenes. Initially, Cable thought it was a domestic violence dispute where somebody was possibly killed. She was then directed to a second location, where she learned they were only

to seize people on the scene. She then returned to Hannah Gilly and Frankie Rowden's house, where the couple was found brutally slaughtered. Their six month old baby had been discovered alive, covered in their blood. We were asked to go back to the first residence to transport a child. And do you know that child's name? Yes, it was Rod Okay. To protect the children's identities, we will beat the use of any miners' names used in court. Do you know how old Roden was at that time? Six months? Okay?

So five minutes later basically okay. And do you recall the condition that you found in. He had blood on his head, on his arms, and legs, in various parts of his body. He didn't appear to have any visible injuries, showing you what's been marked as states Exhibit Q two. Again, if there appears to be blood on his legs and feet and head and face, is that consistent with the condition you found him in? Yes? Okay? And can you tell us when you were exam meaning hand, did you

personally take care not to clean him up? R and he getting at that time, Forensic investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, the fact that Miranda, that eunt had walked in and she was essentially handed over like this still living legacy, if you will, that stained in blood swaddled the child. I would imagine blood stained diaper, you know, and has to make sure and at that moment, you know, you

can imagine. I know that I've been on scenes before that were very dramatic, but in that moment time you're getting a sense that everybody's been wiped out and this little precious angel is still cooing and alive. The defense did not cross. Timothy Dickerson, former Pike County Police officer and director of Pike the Emergency Management, also arrived on the scene. In his court testimony, he detailed entering Dana Roden's house to find the bodies of Hanname and Chris

Roden Jr. It was a grizzly spectacle. Actually did my vehicle went into the home, I didn't turn right, went into a room and found a deceased male. He was in the bed went from there out through I guess would be the living room in the kitchen area, to another room where a deceased female was located, and then made a right and found a third deceased female. While Dickerson was in Hanname's room, he heard a sound and saw a baby's arms extend up from the bed in

which her mother had been shot to death. Who was the baby's condition? From what I remember, I just remember the diaper having blood on it. It was a traumatic scene in a large scene, and when I discovered that the baby was alive, I was very thankful for that. Did you have a fear that the baby might not have been alive? Yes. Dickerson later learned the baby was only four days old. In his words, she was very

very tiny. The jury on day four was shown numerable evidence photos of inside the home, bloody drag marks, blood spatter on the wall, and other forensic material. All of this might trigger a jury to respond in anger. The defense questioned whether all these grey exhibits were necessary. Here's

James Pilcher. They dove into the third crime scene, which was the house that belonged to Dana Manly Roden, and that's where she her son Chris Junior, and her daughter Hannah Roden were all found shot to death in their beds. There was a newborn infant found alive next to Hannah, her newborn daughter. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff in court, they've been showing these autopsy photos of the victims and the crime scenes. As we've been hearing, very graphic and

very disturbing. And due to the graphic nature of all these pictures and walk through, the defense has tried to move for a mistrime. Basically, how it works in the courtroom is behind the witness, there's a flat screen television and when pictures are shown of the crime scenes in autopsies, etc. It goes on this big screen, and of course the jury is moved emotionally by the graphic nature of it,

and the defense is saying, hey, that's not fair. It's not proven that George has done this, so humans in general are going to feel angry toward anybody who might be associated with these photographs. And on the flip of that, prosecutor Angie Kneppa is saying, look, this is what happened. To not show these photos is also a crime. You have to see the graphic details to really know the depth of these crimes. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Defense attorney Richard Nash

drilled Dickerson on where Dana Roden's home was located. Was it in Pike, Adams or Sciota County. When Dickerson answered Pike at first, the two got into a heated exchange. This was a case of an old motion rearing its head again that the trial venue was in proper and search warrants invalid because Dana's home was not technically in Pike County. James Pilcher, I think if anybody's familiar with old school basketball, this feels like the old four corners offense.

By the defense, they are just playing stallball. They are trying to make this thing last as long as they can get as many jurors frustrated as they can with the prosecution. After Dickerson, prosecutors called Gary Michael Mosley, a former Piked In officer who responded to the scene along with Dickerson's team. Mosley opted not to be shown on camera, but consented to an audio recording. He says he and his fellow deputies responded to a shots fired call at

Dana Roden's house. They searched the property with extreme caution, Gunstrawn fearing an active shooter was still on the premises. We had no idea how his audio is a little bit difficult to hear, so Jeff's going to read from a transcript. Guns were out. We had a plan. Once again, we had no idea. The house was designed the way it was, so our plan was just to go in and set up security base once we make entry and

go from there and secure it. Bit by bit. We opened the door and the door swings inward to the right, so as I came in, I do what's called a piegraph cut. I'm an active shooter instructor, and I was taught that. So we come in. I spin from this wall to this wall, constantly looking to see if there's any threats in this room. Another key witness who took the stand was Sheriff's Lieutenant Adam Ball, who was the

first officer on the murder scene. Ball had no idea what he was responding to when he pulled up to the property. He also opted not to be recorded, but Ohio Fox nineteen reporter Mike Sell relays the gist of the lieutenants testimony. The first witness opted out of being recorded.

He has Pike County Shars Lieutenant Adam Ball. He testified that he was the first officer to enter the crime scene at forty seventy seven Union Hill Road where the bodies of Chris Rhoden Jr. And his cousin Gary were found.

Lieutenant Ball, who was a corporal in twenty sixteen, says there was so much blood when he walked into the front door that he had to climb over a treadmill and other furniture to avoid disturbing the crime scene and get to the back bedroom where Chris and Gary Rodan's bodies were found lying together on the floor at the foot of a bed. Chris Senior's fate was particularly heinous. The arm he held up in self defense was blown

off at the elbow. Here again, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Chris Senior's arm was so just absolutely mangled that she stated that many of the major muscleberts were visible, you can see fracture bone, and she could not make heads or tails. At what point the bullet entered his arm and what pointed exit. That's important for us because from a forensic standpoint a scene, because that goes to the dynamics of what's happening at the moment. It's not like

you're shooting at a fixed paper target at a gun range. Okay, if Chriss rotated slightly to the left or to the right, that could give you an indication that he had an awareness and he was being shot as opposed to straight on where he's staring down the muzzle of this weapon. Here again, James Pilcher, he would have bled to death from the shot in the arm. The shot to his stomach. He might have survived for several hours without treatment, but it would have caused sepsis and other things, and it

hit liver and all that. The shot to his chest hit his heart, he would have died within a couple of minutes. And then of course there are the six shots to the head, and they said that four of the shots to the head were clearly he was already lying down and not moving, so these were just on top of everything else. They shot him while it's on the ground, Bang bang bang. Lieutenant Ball was also the

one to discovered the Rodents marijuana grow operation. He described it as quote extensive, taking up a garage and outbuilding an a semi trailer. He also discovered that the Rodent security cameras had been dismantled. Lieutenant Ball actually went outside after clearing the house because they didn't know if anybody was still around. They didn't know if somebody was still

on the property killing anybody, or armed or whatever. So after clearing the trailer, Chris and Gary later they went out and cleared the property and at that point that's when they found the open marijuana grow operation. And they went upstairs and that's when they found, hey, there's cameras and wires and no DVR. The defense exploited the operation to suggest that the murders could have been cartel related,

a theory police have long dismissed. At one time, there was a speculation that a Mexican drug cartel may have been involved in the murders, but then Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said it was not a factor. The motive was a custody dispute over Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodent's

two year old daughter. It's obviously too early to surmise how this trial is skewing, but one glaring omission from the defense is this George Wagner the fourth attorneys have yet to offer up a clear, solid alibi for where George was on the night of the killings. Again, James Pelcher,

they've been kind of vague on this point. They have not come out and said and actually this was they were about to say something along those lines, and they're opening the defenses opening, and there was an immediate objection and they went back in the chambers. Five minutes into the defenses opening, you get, you get ejection from the prosecution.

It was really really strange, and they kind of intimated that George stayed home and was asleep in his bed and he was going out and he found it really weird that Jake was up before him working. He wanted nothing to do with his family and he wanted he's trying to stay away from him. But they never came out and said he has an alibi. That never came out and said this is where he was. And that's going to be the difficult thing for the defense, especially

when you start seeing their funds were commingled. They even have him on recording telling his mother, I don't want to leave. We're all here together this place as a moneymaker. This is after they moved to Alaska. I know him jumping and have myself. But there have been evidence produced since the first stages of the trial that have indicated

that George was still part of the family. He didn't want to leave, like the defense has indicated in their opening statements, and the prosecution is specifically tailoring there evidence towards what the defense set in the opening statement that George wanted to move out, George wanted nothing to do with the family, and they're introducing evidence piece by piece that that was not the kiss. Joseph Scott Morgan weighs in on the challenges the prosecution faces to place George

at the scene of the crime. I think that there are a lot of circumstantial issues regarding the planning. I think that he had an awareness obviously, and for all I know, he was very well in the vehicle, you know, I mean, you know, who am I to say, but to physically put him in you know, in the trailer with for instance, with Chris and Gary that night when that hole was blown through the door, or you know, when that wood was splintered and sent into Chris Senior's face.

You know, you really think you know, was he there? You know, was he physically there while it was happening, or when the bodies are being drug from one room to the other, you know, Which is kind of an exclamation point in all of this because it goes to the kind of the ghastliness of it all. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. At this stage, it seems that the main question is was George Wagner there and if he

wasn't was he a part of the planning? And if he was a part of the planning, is he equally culpable. It seems like what the defense will try to do is hammer away at this story and argue that yes, he came from a bad family, but that doesn't make him a bad guy. So, as we learned last season,

the opinion of George Wagner is a little mixed. Some people were shocked that he was involved with the murders and had a very hard time wrapping their head around it, and other people were not surprised and thought he was very much a part of the Wagner clan. And so I think it's just going to be fascinating to watch all of this play out in the courtroom. The prosecution

has its vulnerabilities. Also among the media pool, there is definitely a sense of questioning about the prosecution strategy and when are they all going to tie this together? When are they going to point to George being part of this conspiracy because none of the physical evidence presented so far.

They're starting to get into some of the other evidence on the wire taps and so forth, but they even stipulated none of the physical evidence they found that the crime scenes had any of the wagoners to any of these crime scenes. Joseph Morgan theorizes about how the lack of DNA evidence will be a possible blockade improving George the Fourth was there the night of the slaves. It's tough nowadays. You know, maybe ten years ago it wouldn't have been tough, but we're in a brave new world.

People have an expectation that, oh, they're going to get you and talk about DNA. I've seen that on television, and you get up there and it's a big fail, you know, as far as the jury is concerned. But just because you have an absence of something doesn't mean that something hasn't occurred. It's just that that's what many people expect. You know that we can conjure up DNA and you can't. It's either there it's not, you know, and I think that that's significant, and it's also significant

relative to fingerprints as well. Let's stop here for another break. With eight bodies and four suspects, this is a case with a dizzying number of moving pieces, and there's a real risk of the jury being confused, allowing reasonable doubt to seep in. Here's long Crimes legal analyst Terry Austin. The more complicated, the better for the defense. The most complicating part of this case is keeping track of the

names and the relationships. I mean, we know already that there are eight victims for defendants for different crime scenes, and all of those individuals have people who were involved in terms of finding those individuals who were killed, and so the biggest issue for the prosecution is going to keep everything straight. You want that jury to follow your story. In the case of prosecution trying to pursue the claims against George, it's going to be difficult to establish that motive.

They have evidence against, you know, obviously Jake against Angela, but I think it might be difficult and all you have to do, as you know, is have one juror who has reasonable doubt and doesn't want to convict and where you have it. So we'll see what happens. But I think there could be some doubt in the case

against George here. And remember, this is a jury of his peers that's rooted within our family documents, and his peers consist of those that live in that small slice of the world up there that they see each other day to day, you know, Walmarton at cafe and everywhere else that they go up there, they see one another and they know one They raise their hands one another, they're driving down the road and wave, you know, and

that sort of thing. It's that kind of community. And I previously said and I'll continue to say that the level of brutality that is involved in the pike and massacre, in the murders of the road and family, again, it is something that is going to live in infamy in this corner of the world. It's the type of thing that one hundred years from now, kits will sit around campfires and they will tell horror stories about this is

what we're dealing with in that world. And so it's on the shoulders of this jury to weigh the evidence and decide, you know, is somebody going to be made to pay. But they've got a hard decision, I think, and it's still coming and they're not there yet, but they will have a hard decision to make it by George. So look at it this way. TV has sixty minutes, maybe two hours, or a movie to tell a story about a trial. You can only fit so much evidence.

You can only fit so much dramatic moments into that. But when you're dealing with the actual rule of law and how you can introduce evidence and what kind of questions you can ask and all those things, all that stuff you see on TV is out the door. So what we're seeing is the very slow incremental process of justice and the law. In this case, Lady gentleman, a jury, we're going to know a journ for the day, could be going home, could be taking your badges with you.

I'd be leaving your notepads chairs. As Day four wrapped up in the face of all the brutal evidence, presiding Judge Randy Deering took a moment to remind the jury of their weighty responsibilities. And you know what else I'm going to say, you not to discuss this case among yourselves or with anyone else. You're not to permit this case to be discussed with you or in your presence. You're not to form or express an opinion concerning this case until it is finally submitted to you for deliberation

and verdict. You m read, listen to, or view any reports or accounts of this case from any source whatsoever. Even though many witnesses are opting out of being recorded, the Katie Studios team and experts are there. In the coming weeks, the pieces of a devastating and complicated puzzle

will finally come together once and for all. I would say they are trying to shock the jury at this point with the violence of it, for sure, because they showed the pictures of people dead in their beds or on the floor or pulled into beds time and time and time again. I can't imagine. Can you even put it into words what it's like or slop living in hail?

Really well, I was trying to get home my father, and I want a will get GREGI to let him know that his brother and his niece and nephews and stuff has been killed, Luke, said their dad, Billy Wagner, once threatened violence against his dad and his uncle, Chris Roden Senior. Luke said that while his dad and uncle were doing a good deed for Billy Wagner, Billy told Luke that a dust up between the three of them would not end well. Marma worse. This case is about

to blow a wide open. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Greeves, Alan Wider, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.

For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.