Con Artists & Liars

is not believed to have killed anyone. This is the Pikes and Massacre Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode three con Artists and Liars. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. On the first day of the trial of George Wagner the fourth, opening statements for the prosecution clocked in at four hours. It raised some eyebrows among media and legal

experts for its length and amount of detail. After a lunch break, it was time for the defense to make their case heard. The defense attorneal here is Richard Nash. Is the defense ready to give an opening statement? Yes, you're I do so. It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth who is currently on trial, and his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Good afternoon, everybody. April the twenty second

and twenty sixteen. George Wagner lived on Peterson Road and that day started off like most days. Nash is in his mid forties, bald, with a beard and glasses. He wears a bright red tie. Nash jumps right into the defense's narrative of what happened in the morning after the murders. George knew he had one task that he had to do that day, and that was to disassembly building a wood shed, so to speak. That was the one thing

that he had to do. But before George could take off to do that, he noticed that Jake was often that new barn up on that hill on Peterson Road. Nash is alluding to a barn that sits on a hill above where the entire Wagner family resided at the time of the murders. At that point, nothing seemed suspicious to George, although again it was off that Jake was already up that day, and usually Jake is the second to rise while they were headed back home to Peterson Road.

Jake's cell phone went off there the caller was Andrew Carson. Andrew Carson said hello, Jake, and there he had a conversation, and that's when he thought he was the first to tell je that the mother of his child, Hannah, had been murdered, along with six of her relatives. Jake, according to mister Carson, put on an act worthy of an Academy Award, an act where he calmed Carson into thinking that he was the first to tell him as he wept and cried on the phone. And that is the

first time George learning about murders. It's at this point the whole world becomes privy to the defense's main argument, George was not there that night and didn't know about the murders until the next day. This is the first time we're hearing about this, let alone, at his trial. It's a pretty bold moved by the defense to say

he wasn't there period. My takeaway is that what George Wagner is attempting to do, which is a pretty interesting strategy, is remove himself from the culpability of even being aware that the murders were happening, and letting them happen, and it might work. I mean, the only evidence that we

know of that the prosecution has is the shoeprint. As we know, there's nothing really tying George Wagner to the Rodan murders the night of the murders, and this is a plausible work around that the defense has come up with or is possibly the truth. We don't know. That's yet to be proven. But wouldn't that completely discount what his brother Jake Wagner is saying. It would staf But what I think George Wagner is doing is thinking about

his own safety at this point. He's not worried about what Jake's plea deal is or what Angel has plea deal is. He's worried about himself. What a showdown that's actually going to be when you take this part into account as well. So for the first time, George Wagner is going to see his brother, Jake Wagner, but they're also gonna completely disagree on the story. Shakespeare couldn't have

written this better himself. I mean, we've heard how close these two brothers were for years growing up, that they stood by each other, that they protected one another. Now this contradictory story is really going to play out in court. And you know, we've been wrong before in terms of what our theories are, what we think. But I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that George Wagner did not know about these murders. Here's reporter

Anjeanette Levy. I think it's interesting that they say that George wasn't even there, and I guess they have to write because if he's there, he's going down for aggravated murder, so they can't concede that point to the state. But they've talked about in a pre trial motion in the past that Jake said that George went along at the last minute because he feared that Billy might kill Jake

at the end of the night. They've quoted Jake as saying that local journalist James Pilcher was also in the courtroom. The defense is clearly stating that George wasn't there, that the first he heard about the murders was the next morning, and that Jake had gotten up before him and was getting rid of the evidence that morning before he even got up. And that was surprising to me that they

would play that gambit. But really really hammering on the fact that there is absolutely not one shred of physical evidence specifically tying George Wagner to the scene of the crimes or that he killed anybody, So they are going to leverage that as much as possible. As this trag goes on, it's clear at this point that the defense is going all in against the rest of the Wagner family. Nash continues to separate George from his relatives. After some time,

BCI had narrowed down who they felt were suspects. In fact, it's worthy to note that BCI had interviewed Jake Wagner four times. BCI, conducting their investigation, also felt it was important that they interviewed Angela Wagner. The third person that they felt that was important to talk to in the Wagner household was Billy Wagner. George was right there. Not

once did they ever ask to speak with George. Earlier that day, during the prosecution's opening statement, Angie Knepper revealed that authorities kept tabs on the Wagners before their arrests, even when they were in Alaska. When the family decided to come back to Ohio, investigators were waiting for them at the US Canadian border. Imagine if you will, for individuals being surprised at a Montana border, agents putting them

in separate rooms and BCI walking in and questioning them. First, Billy gets in the vehicle, he's released first, and then Angela gets in the vehicle. Not a word, not a word about Oh my gosh, can you believe that happened? What they think we did this? No conversation like that at all, no conversation at all about what just happened. We find out later that there's a reason for that, because Billy had told them, you know, be quiet. The

defense tells its side of the story. We had special agents who had four different rooms where they spoke with all four family members. And George had an agent there speaking with him, special Agent Pagan, and he told George, your family has big problems. George, do you want to be a witness or do you want to be a suspect? Here again. James Pilcher, he was being questioned by the BCI when they came across the border in Montana, and he said, yeah, he had problems with his family, but

he never knew them to be violent. He couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe they would kill somebody. Needs at nine, Special Prosecutor Anti Kaneppa objects and she and defense attorney Nash approached the bench and huddle with Judge Deering. It is very highly unusual that the prosecution would interrupt somebody just five minutes into their opening statement. And at that point they went to the bench and argued for two minutes, and then went back into chambers and argued for another

eight to nine minutes. And then the judge says, you know, opening statements amount evidence. So clearly the prosecution was trying to say he's throwing this out there, and he does an envy proof for it, and he needs to be called doubt. You might continue your old Thank you, judge. So back to that interview room with Special Agent Hageman, he had just a few statements to make. Then he said, if I don't know who did it, then you all

go down for conspiracy. And so Hageman never received any information. And here George says, if I don't hear who did it, you all go down for conspiracy. This is a trial about the State of Ohio against George Wacker. It's not the Wagners, it's not Billy Wager. It's not Angela Wagner, nor is it Jake Wacker. This is all about George. There are certain things in life that we can't control. One of those things is our birth name. Unfortunately, George

cannot help that he's a Waggener. But that doesn't make him a murderer. They are clearly relying on the fact that the prosecution has burned over here they can just play defense and swat away anything, or that they can sit there and say, well, George didn't know anything, and how can you prove it. George gets more animated as

his attorney speaks, making eye contact with the cherry. The media outside the courthouse is quick to comment and what the defense has really done well out is really trying to paint George as an individual, an individual who happened to be part of a family who had kind of a sordid pass and a pass with corruption and other criminal behavior. But their argument essentially is just because his family is this way doesn't mean that he's this way,

and it certainly doesn't make him a murderer. As you hear the evidence in this case, there's five things I want you to pay attention to. The first is going to be what Jake says. Jake will tell you that George had nothing to do with the plan of these murders. Jake will tell you that George shot no one. Jake will tell you that George did nothing to destroy any evidence. Is clearly pointing the finger at Jake and Angela and Billy,

and that George had nothing to do with it. So do they just change their story because now they've seen all of the evidence and are just sort of making a strategy switch. Yeah, I think so. And I think what they're gonna do is just called the credibility Jake and Angela, because that's what this case relies on. The second thing that I want you to pay attention to

will be the credibility of Angela and Jake. The third thing that I want you to pay attention to is the incentives that were offered by the State of Ohio for such hin as crimes that Angela and Jake to get them to talk, to get them to tell a story. This is a family of con artists, liars, and deeds. He says that in the over and that Jake became the vessel for all of that, and George was not like them. George wanted to get away from them, and

it's up to the prosecution to prove otherwise. That second thing I wanted to talk to you about is Jake and Angela, who are con artists and liars. We've already touched on it some, but Angela's the con artist through and through. That's who the state has is the key witness, con artist and liars. Clearly, the defensive strategy is going to be these people are liars. Can't believe the thing they said. They've lied before. What makes you think they're

not lying now? The con didn't stop? Then it's content. It's who they are. They've called the state of Ohio into the mostainous crime, into a thirty year sentence, in the sentence most deserving of death, he escapes with life. The plea deal is what I'm speaking of. In order to avoid the death penalty, they must implicate George. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. As Nashley is into the rest of the Wagners, George

listens with a hint of sadness on his face. Going back to the morning after the murders, the defense lays out their story according to Nash, Jake was in the barn destroying cell phones, burning clothes, and breaking down the silencers and weapons used in the murders. There's no physical evidence George was at any of those murder scenes. There's no DNA, there's no prints, VCIU. He had no motive.

Outside the courtroom, Mike Allen comments, Sure, seems like it's a strong case for the state, But you know the defense. I don't think they'd be taken this to trial unless they thought they had something. So it's going to be interesting to see again two of the family members plat out two to give people backstory. That's correct to plat out. I think the States loaded for bear, But again, we

just don't know what the defense strategy is. It's going to be interesting to see the defense closes by once again highlighting the character differences between their client, George Wagner the fourth and the rest of the Wagner family. The last thing I want to tell you about is George is not like his mother, his father, or as a brother. He's different from them. George disagreed with the way that

his family lived their life. He disagreed with them so much he actually engaged in physical fist fight with his father. George disliked the way that that family functioned so much he was not part of them that as soon as he could leave that home, as soon as he got his driver's license when he was sixteen years old, he left. He ran away. George, like most sixteen year olds, couldn't make it at sixteen, so unfortunately he had to come

back home. We believe the evidence will show that George could not have committed these mothers, and it goes further. We believe the evidence will show that Jake in fact killed all eight, but he had to implicate his father in actually killing somebody. But the evidence will show that Jake killed all eight. We've heard mixed things about George over the years, but we also have heard that he was just very loved and had close friendships, had very

close relationships. I go back to our interview with Chris Newcome, who was Angela Wagner's half brother, and he grew up very close with Jake and George, and he explained to us he felt completely betrayed by George, specifically because he considered him more like a brother than anything else, and he couldn't possibly imagine that he would have had anything to do with this more than any of the other family members, And so I guess, I mean, is it

possible that George didn't do this and he's been roped into this awful crime by his family who was scheming to kind of bring him down with them. Either that or he's a really good liar. This is the outline, your bullet points. You're going to see this, this, and this. Now. The prosecution obviously went much longer. They have a much bunch,

bigger case. They have all this evidence that they've been gathering for four years, and I've been able to present anybody, and so they just bumped it all over the jury. Knowing what we know now about the opening statements, what has been said, is it becoming impossible that he could walk free or does that still seem completely impossible. It depends on how believable the jury finds. Jake and Angela. Is it possible that he walks free? Absolutely as possible.

You never can tell. The next morning, witness testimony begins. First up is victim Dana Roden's sister, Bobby Joe Manley. Bobby Manly and a friend found the first two victims, Chris Roden Senior, and his cousin Gary. That discovery was quickly followed by this English nine one one call, which was played for the jury. Yes, yes, forty seventy seventy thirty seventy seven, forty seventy seven. Okay, fot yer seven

seven Emil correct, yes on the black all over the house. Right, my brother in laws who says he looks like I beat the hell out of them. Okay, because but all his heart words, what's your brother in law's name? Christ warning? Gary right? And Frank and Gary Rodan starts times in head looks like the dad. Do you think they're both dead? I think the great dead. And I phone has beak to pop out of them. Okay. If there's anybody else in the house, don't know us. Okay. So doors was awful.

We got here, but on her he was and I went here and there letting on the floor and done. Okay, and enough starts right now. I'm okay to stay out of the house. Don't let anybody got in there. Okay, yeah, all right, we don't deputing overlay. Okay, I thank you your mother. I think it's always just worth mentioning. So many listeners reach at on a regular basis giving us tips, and we take every one of them seriously and do our very best to go down the rabbit hole on

each of them. We've also had listeners reach out to say they thought they heard something, for example, in the nine one one call, was there something else in the background that maybe we hadn't covered before, And we did look into that, for example, and ultimately we weren't able to hear anything that wasn't already reported. About anything that listeners send us, we put through a very strict filter of whether or not it's worth sharing on this platform.

We don't want to share any rumors or any mistruths because we know how toxic that can be for the family. But yeah, we always encourage our listeners to share and interact with the show. After finding Chris Roden Senior and Gary Roden, manly told Kneppa she and her friend checked another trailer nearby and found the bullet riddled bodies of Frankie Rodin and his fiance Hannah Gilly. Mercifully, a baby boy whom Hannah Gilly was likely nursing at the time, survived,

as would be expected. Bobby Joe still feels the trauma of that day last season, Jeff spoke with her niece, who was very close to Hannam Rodin to me and Hannah were only like six months and fourteen days apart, So you guys were up together. Yeah, we grew up together. We was pretty close her and my little brother was close to him, and Christopher wasn't very far apart either. When it first happened, Like, we was all really close with each other. And after the years started going out.

The only other time we gather is like when we want to do like a one release or a candlelighting for another year of them being dead. I used to hang out a lot with Bobby Joe, but like after everything happened, she just like completely changed. When Bobby Joe takes the stand as the first witness in the trial of George Wagner the fourth there is no camera coverage. You know, a lot of people were watching the live stream,

a lot of questions why was that? Why did that happen? Yeah, frustrating for people watching from home, frustrating for all of us covering the trial as well. It's because of an order from Judge Deering here that allows witnesses to either opt in or opt out. They can decide they don't want to be broadcast and that's video or audio. We fought it, but the judge has ruled officially before this trial started that that's the way it is going to be.

Bobby Joe Manly tells her story to the jury, the media furiously taking notes in lieu of the camera feed. Bobby Joe, the youngest Manly sibling, was the first to find the bodies. Chris was Dana's ex husband. Bobby Joe and a friend, Billy Morgan, found a trail of blood leading to the bedroom. Chris and his cousin Gary were

dead on the floor, covered by a comfiter. The prosecution also showed the jury photos from inside the trailers of Chris, Senior, Frankie, and Dana Rodin, including where the Wagner family is accused of dragging Chris's body back to his bedroom. There are three photos shown to the jury. The first is pointing back from the living room towards a cracked open front door. There's a vacuum and a child's play chair in the corner. On the couch or two camouflaged jackets. Kids shoes are

strewn about the floor. There's a stick on logo next to the front door that says simply family. Another photo shows what looks to be a kid's room with a crib. The final photo is of a recliner in what looks to be the living room. There's a one foot wide streak of blood running from the base of the chair across the floor to somewhere else in the house. Anjeanette Levy was in the courtroom for the first morning of

testimony for Bobby Joe being on the stand. I thought she did a really good job recalling some really horrific events in her life, getting up there and testifying to these really awful things that have happened to their family and finding them and all of the things that they saw. Also on the stands today was a Pike County deputy who responded to the scene. In fact, they got flagged down by Bobby Joe outside of Frankie Rodin and Hannah Hazel Gilli's house. I don't think anybody really wants to

do that. When you're in public service, it's your job. And this is the biggest murder case in Ohio history. I'm so mad about this whole opting out crap, Like if these family members can get up there and talk about these awful things. Is it's somebody paid by the taxpayers, you should be able to get up there too and show your face and talk about this. It's one thing to be fearful, if you fear retribution. I can understand being scared. In this case. I understand Bobby Joe Manley.

She seems like a very quiet person. I get that. When you have people in public service opting out, what message does that send? It also doesn't send a good message.

When this is a you know, an area that sees a lot of police corruption, or at least has seen a lot of police corruption, you would think you'd want to get up there and take a stand and say, you know what, this is the process, this is the accountability we can offer, and it's been done right, and we aren't going to allow this type of thing to happen in our community. Dana Roden and Bobby Joe Manley's brother,

James Manly, does not opt out. His testimony gives us the first word for word account of what happened that morning from the perspective of the surviving members of the Roden family. His words are few, good afternoon, How are you all right? Okay, can you please state your name for the record and spell your last name? Okay? Okay, And mister Manley, how old are you? Okay? James Manly has a beard and wears a black shirt. He sits back in his chair near the wall. Manly largely answers

ange Gneppa's questions with one or two word answers. I know this witness isn't showing much emotion right now here on the stand. However, I can't imagine what it would be like to come upon that crime scene and see all of that. I think he's amazingly composed in that he's describing probably the most horrific day of his life. And to ask him to go through that step by step without breaking down, without being emotional, I think he's

doing a really good job. This prosecut I think, can do a better job helping that witness paint that awful picture for the jury. If you have a witness that isn't as talkative as other people might be, the onus is on the prosecutor to then kind of get as close to a leading question as you can get, or as the judge might allow, because you're just not going to get it from the witness. Let's stop here for

another break. Andrew Kneppa coax is more information out of James Manley, the only son and a family of three sisters. He uses the present tense to describe a sister Cathy, and the past tense to speak about his late sister Dana Roden. No whit, dad, joke, I'll find her. Something was wrong? And then what did you do? Jumped in? Looks up and follow him up? Do it? And where did you go? Frankie house? Okay? When he gets there, he finds Bobby Joe Manley distraught holding Hannah Hazel Gilly

and Frankie Roden's baby. Ask her what can handle happen? Okay, you asked Bobby Joe. Bobby Joe breaks the news to her brother James about the four murders. Manly enters Frankie and Hannah Hazel's house. Can you describe what you saw? Blood everywhere? He said, blood everywhere? Okay? And when you say blood everywhere, can you tell us where? Specifics? On the body on the bed on the walls. Frankie Rodin

and his fiance Hannah Hazel Gilly dead in bed. Hazel had been nursing their month's old son at the time. James Manly then drove to his sister Dana's house down the road to tell her her son was dead. After you knocked on the door and it opened, what did you do? Put you out of her name? Then? What happened? Live? Kept you on her name? What dirt? Benjam. At this point, Manly is showing emotion. His face is flushed as he

describes finding his sister, Dana Roden's room is dark. He feels along the foot of her bed and touches her foot. He tries to wake her up. Man toward her head. And when you got to where you thought her head was, what did you do? I felt like a pillow of her head. I started picked a pillow up, and you feel like stup. So you started lifting up the pillow, but you could feel that it was sticking, yeah, stuck. Yeah, okay, And you said then you ran out of the house

or when I just turned around out? Okay? And why did you do that? Like? What did you think? Because I fire sure you did? Okay? What made you think that? Cause? Brother, did you hear anything in the house? He could hear his niece, Hannah May Rowden's new baby crying in another room. He just couldn't bring himself to look. She was dead there too, her brother Chris Junior dead and yet another room. The final testimony of day one is from Justin Wearing. He's one of the EMT drivers who gets to Frankie

and Hannah Hazel's house shortly after James Manley does. When he arrives, he sees kids in the yard. There were two. There was a young child that was probably four or five years old that was running around in the yard, and then there was an infant child who was around six months old. And did you notice anything unusual about the infant? The infant was covered with blood. His viber was saturated with blood. Images of an infant covered in the blood of his family are difficult to comprehend for

everyone in the courtroom. This is only the beginning of a long, dark journey full of the horrific details of what happened that night in Pike County. We are also getting a first look at the crime scenes and the Pike County massacre, and we want to warn you some of the images are disturbing. We don't really know the full scope of what the Rodent family faced. Does the prosecution hold back any level of violence or the gore of that, or do they just put it all out

there for them to see. Can you imagine the level of grief and despair they have to sit there and look at these autopsy photos. One of the issues, for instance, will be range a fire. How far was it from the end of the muzzle to a bullet hole in the forehead. I don't know that people can fully fathom what went on in those homes. It's monboggle. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.

The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Scott DeGraw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Twa. Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.