Angela Takes the Stand

and cattle whistle. You can have sympathy for somebody, but when you take part in killing eight people, sorry, that all goes out the window. This is the pike To Massacre. Return to Pike County season four, episode nineteen, and it takes the stand. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Laidicker and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not

guilty and maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. We've heard testimony from Jake Wagner about his role in the crimes against the Rodin, Manly and Gilly families. Today we're hearing from another pivotal witness for the prosecution and accused killer comes face to face with his mother for the first time since both were

arrested four years ago. Jurors today heard from both boys mother, Angela Wagner, looking somewhat frail and wearing a drab jail uniform. The fifty two year old Wagner took the stand around ten fifteen this morning, wearing a drab black and white jail uniform. Angela Wagner walks into the courtroom. James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter from Cincinnati now with Local twelve, was there and Angela arrived at court so one thing that her appearance was much different than in the past. Her

hair was much longer. One of the other interesting details is that she was shackle much like her son was, but the change were much lighter, so they made a much different noise on the floor and she walked by, it was more like a clank clank clink rather than clank clank clank. Here's Stephanie, who was also in the courtroom during Angela Agnes testimony. You can literally hear her with her shackles coming down the hallway, which was such

an eerie sound. James Pilcher described the atmosphere in the courtroom that day. The courtroom, you could have heard a pin drop, Jak. It wasn't like that, But when we're waiting for Angela, for the mother of the suspect who's on trial, it was definitely quiet because everybody has always thought that she was the mastermind behind all of this, and I think that was one thing that they were

anticipating coming out. And there was also the tension of knowing a mother and her son, we're going to see each other for the first time with her testifying against him, So there was a lot of tension and very very quiet in that courtroom when we're waiting for her to take the stand. When she sat down, she didn't even look at George, and George pretty much looked like he had his eyes down the entire time. Angela Wagner chose

to opt out of having her testimony recorded. Therefore, the only people who heard her testimony were the jury, the judge, the respective attorneys, and the family and media that were present in the courtroom. Here's Jeff speaking with annge Neette Levy, investigative reporter and host for Long Crime. They opted out because they could. They thought it was completely ridiculous. You're a cooperating witness, you're convicted, you should be forced to

get up there and face the music on camera. But he recorded all of these road and family members got up there and bared their souls and were recorded. And you know, why shouldn't he and Angela have to do the same. Does the jury know who opt in and opts out? No? I don't believe so, because the bailiff would go over and tell the photographer or tell members of the media who opted and who opted out. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. It's so very easy

to forget the Rodents. And I guess on a spiritual level of since this all kind of kicked off, I've always imagined every single member of that family in a spiritual form, sitting on the front row watching seeing if they're going to receive any level of justice, and this is part of that justice. These people whose poor, poor victims, They deserve to have each individual story told when it

comes to their deaths. This is a mass murder. You know, their lives ended it at the end of the muzzle of the weapon and cut short, every single one of them, every singing. They still be here where there's today. I have no doubt, you know, and they deserved their due. Prosecutor Angie Kneppa begins her opening remarks for the day.

We said that if anyone else came forward and could tell us something that was consistent with what we had just heard, that would do two things for us, and it would just be stronger corroborating evidence that another member of the Wagner family was giving us the same information without knowing exactly what Jake had said, right, And that person that came forward was Angela Wagner. Kneppa comes right out of the gate with the question everyone has been

wondering about. One thing that really stuck out to me was they approached her much differently than they did Jake. At the very very beginning, at the very opening of her testimony, they asked a point blank, are you guilty of taking part in these murders? Yes? Did you help plan them? Yes? Did you help prepare for or yes? Did you aid in a bet? Yes? Who else apart my husband Billy my son is George and Jake. So suffice it to say, all four of you were involved

in these homicides that night. Yes, she was out point blank, are you guilty of aggravated murder? She said, yes, we all are. That was a really key moment. Here's Mike Allen, attorney and legal analyst who's been following the case from

the beginning. I think the fact that Angie Kaneppa asked the question are you guilty and the answer from Angela was yes, That's a big part of her testimony and I think just getting that out up front lets the jury know that, you know, she's not messing around here, and she's admitting to her involvement in it, not necessarily firing any weapons, but she was in it up to her neck, and that was established early on in her testimony.

Special Prosecutor Kneppa asked Angela Wagner about her childhood here again Stephanie. Angela said, this is the first time I had heard this. She has sort of this messy relationship with her own father because she was feuding with him a bit about having sex. Then she goes to the military and is sexually assaulted, leaves there and gets married very quickly with Billy, and she speaks of frankly Billy and her grand babies and her son's in a very

loving manner. You know, she's really presenting today as a sweet, loving mother. On the stand, Angela isn't quite what we expected. She's soft spoken and as a bit of a baby talker, and instantly I was expecting a much bigger presence. Here's Jeff and Angeanette. What do you make of that? Do you think that's an act or do you think that she's kind of changed in jail. I think she was probably a nervous b doesn't want to be there. She may be feeling badly about throwing her son under the bus,

implicating him in these homicides. But at the same time, I think that she's a master manipulator. I think she's good at playing a role when she has to. So you don't really buy it. I mean, I don't buy the meat mild mannered part of it. I think maybe in that instance that was her, but she's just quiet and soft spoken. Obviously, that's not what we've heard from Angela Wagner on the wire taps, or what we heard about Angela Wagner from Tabitha's testimony or Elizabeth Armer's testimony.

As we've talked about incessantly, she's been this monster in our minds and certainly in mind. This is the big bad wolf, right this is her day in court, and this is the monster we've been talking about, and we know that is true. She's admitted it. We've heard helpless stories about it. I'm told it's coming. We're going to see the crack in her very soon. But right now, it's kind of like watching a movie in a way.

It's almost as though, what's that movie? Primal Fear? And Edward Norton has sort of an interesting dialect, and he has mannerisms that are very specific. And then at the very end when he's proven to be innocent and you find out that he's, ah, I was lying the whole time, and he doesn't have an accent. He was just pretending to be this completely different person. And it feels like she's that right now. And I have to be honest

with you, it's very believable. You know, we've been tracking this case so closely, and then you look at jurors and you have to hope they're not buying it. Here again, James Filcher. The juxtaposition between what you heard on tape and what she presented in person was much much different, much more low key, much calmer, much more meat. As for her demeanor, again, she's there to save her life but also the lives of her family as part of her plea deal, So she obviously is going to be

on her best behavior. So I think that was part of it. But I also think part of it she was probably on her meds and she admitted that. During cross examination, Prosecutor Kneppa asked Angela Wagner about when Jake

and George were children. Wagner testifies that she didn't think George and Jake were getting the one on one attention they needed at public school, so she and Billy decided to homeschool them, and they began by interrogating her about how she raised Jake and George, explaining that she homeschooled them both until high school while their father, Billy Wagner, allegedly taught them how to steal from trucks and trailers.

There's obviously a lack of socialization there. I mean, these kids were raised and when I say kids, Jake and George and this kind of upbringing where they were homeschooled and didn't really have a lot of exposure to the outside world. Of course, they knew people outside of their family, but not many. They didn't really have a lot of friends outside of you know, people who worked at the Flying w and things like that. So they didn't have

a quote unquote normal childhood. And there's questions about the curriculum. They were taught that they needed to be there deferential and polite, not to act up, things like that, but it was almost in a way that they were taught these things so that they could get away with crimes and not necessarily so they could be good human beings. We heard about some of this education in Jake's testimony.

Angela Wagner's testimony expands it on the family dynamic. She speaks about how the family would set fires to their properties and file insurance claims. That was one thing that the prosecution did too, and they did it with Jake, but they did it more with Angela, and that is they clearly laid out how Angela was involved and planned several criminal acts leading up to all of this, including

the arsons. They rebuilt the house again up there on Fredrica's property, and Fredrika said, well, I'm going to sell the property and you're not going to really be compensated for the house. And at that point Angela said, I don't want anybody living this dream house that we built with our own bare hands. So they burned it down for the insurance money, and they walked through all of that.

It's interesting because the way Kneppa did this was chronological, and Angela's towards the end of this trial, and so it's almost like she's confirming all the things that we've heard. They talked about the insurance for the fires, all of these pieces that we've heard about. Angela's like, yes, that happened, Yes, that happened, Yes, that happened. What do you make of that? I think miss Kannappa was doing that on purpose to show that the testimony, Angela's testimony job with the physical

call evidence in the case. And I think it was a good strategy because it did line up in her testimony, I mean pretty solidly. So I think that was a good strategy. And again, as I said, I think Angela came off as pre credible. The defense lean did on these planned arsons during cross examination. Here's James Pilcher, followed by Stephanie. The defense started its cross examination by leaning into Angela's previous criminal acts, including Arson's for insurance money, shoplifting,

and helping steal diesel fuel and truckloads of goods. I think it is going to prove to be very relevant. They're painting a picture of her, although she was very sweet and cute all day. At the very end cross examination happened, and that was a jaw dropper because George's defense attorney it puts on a pretty good display and kind of take us through Angela's early years and then they start getting into where she lives and how they ended up at the house in the end that she lived,

which was Pugs. What he was painting the picture for was that, Yeah, she has in fact burned down by Arson. Three houses. She had to admit to that today in the court of law. He was like, this house was very expensive. How did you get the money for this house? Oh? Wait, didn't the house before this house? What happened to that house? Oh, it burnt down, But how did you get the money for that house? Oh? The house before that, Oh that one burned down? So three houses, and I think a

garage all burnt down. You got insurance money for all of them. On cross examination, the defense asks Angela Wagner if Jake and George were involved in the arsons. Angela's response, yes, but who gives a damn? By the way, when all these arsons were happening, George was one time he was sixteen, one time George was fifteen, Like George was in the home during these shenanigans. Angela also testified about other crimes she's committed with Billy in front of the boys, including

pill running. Prosecutor Kneppa asks Angela Wagner if she's ever stolen fuel, before Angela responds yes, she was the lookout. Angela also testified that Billy taught the boys had a safe and fuel. I think that they see themselves as engaging in and just fible outlawry. If you, if you will that you know the government is all bad. We're really representative of the working people you know here in this community. You know it's cliche, but you know our

family has been here for generations. We know we don't know what the real story is here. We know that you're not going to get ahead in this world and this hardscrabb of life that we're leading. You're not going to get ahead in this world unless you you steal, going to some hard working families home or the farm and robin them, or burglarizing and taking what is not there and being able to justify that. It's you know, it's a real Lord of the Flies moment and its

survival of the fittists. And they've done that. You know, Lord knows how many people that had actually stolen from in that community. You know, you you think about things just uh, you know, two by fours and wood paneling and you know, going out to job sites and essentially robbing hard working people of the things that they need to get by on. It sounds like the Old West because they had even gotten involved in poaching and cattle rustling of all things, you know, student livestock. So that's

an operation. That's that's not a one man operation, is it. That's that's that's a lot of work. It's not like little Jake is just running around doing all of this stuff with this crazy father. You gotta have multiple hands on the wheel here. And I think that you know, this goes to George and this this thievery, this you know,

nefarious behaviors. It's like a virus. I think that just it spreads like wildfire through a family because you know, it's the children bear witnessed it when they're grown up in the home, and they know that this is just part of life, that they're involved in it, and you know what, it was probably normal for them to go and take food out of people's mouths. There's a question of whether this kind of testimony about Jake and George's

upbringing is making them sympathetic to the jury. Here again Joseph Morgan, followed by Angeinette Levy, for George an appoint in his life that he was at he was still going to be bullied by Billy and potentially by Angela as well. I think Angela is probably chief amongst centers here. He just couldn't get out of his own way. And so I guess if the jury can take away some bit of sympathy for George as he's you know, he's he's own trial there in the courthouse, I guess that's

that's probably where it would come from. There may have been a little bit of sympathy, but I don't think there was a whole lot. I mean, you can have sympathy for somebody, but when you take part in killing eight people, sorry, that all goes out the window. It might be an explanation, but it doesn't excuse it. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. The prosecution asks Angela about her relationship with her daughter

in laws. We've heard in previous testimony how George's ex wife, Tabitha was essentially cut off from her child by the Wagner family. We've also heard about how Angela claimed to love Hannah may Roden like a daughter, but there was friction over custody of the child she shared with Jake. We've spoken before about how Angela wanted to spy on Hannah Rodin's Facebook activity. Prosecutor Kneppa asked how she got access to her passwords to monitor Facebook. According to Angela,

she asked Jake and he gave it to her. Joseph

Scott Morgan. She controlled everything, and he controlled everything, even down to the relationships that you know that she had, that her sons had, you know, outside the home, you know, with these women that came into their lives, and when you're in a position of power where you can control people, to the point where their romantic interest is trumped by your ability to manipulate them, where you would be willing to, you know, at her direction, compel your lovers to give

over passwords and access. Just that one point alone is really eye catching. Angela used this access to social media to share screenshots about custody of her granddaughter with the family. She was also trying to get information on Tabitha, George Wagner's ex wife. This is not what she said, but she's intimating that she's just protecting her boys away from these bad girls. Essentially, he's a reminder of what Angela Wagner said when she was recorded by the BCI at

the Canadian border. So your relationship with Hannah was good. Now, I thought she was a sport wrap. But I thought she was a sport wrap because she really was. I mean, no, that's that she was her dad's ever get away with every n I WoT, she would give me looks and she would smarrow and she would tell Jacob was being mean, and you know, but that's typical teenager. Sometimes Mothera was and ye time and time again, Wagner would bring it back to how her family was everything to her. And

informed everything she did. But the prosecution brings up an incident with Tabitha that we haven't heard about before. Here's Jeff speaking with lawng Crimes Ajeanette Levy. She also said some weird things about Tabby. Angie Kneppa asked her about Tabby and said, you know, did Tabby ever try to poison you or anything like that. She's like, yes, and she was just adamant about it, just like Jake was

adamant like about certain things. She said. She described how Tabby one time put dog hair in her coffee, and she and Jake liked a particular type of vanilla coffee, and she said she had her coffee cup one time and Tabby had made this cup for her and she looked at it and she, you know, she said, Jake, is there, there's dog hair in this coffee. And she was serious as could be, and she said Tabby was

laughing about it. She described another time where Tabby had made some kool aid for George that he liked and he got really sick. So she has these like things that she kind of comes up with. The dog hair in the coffee thing was just astounding to me. She truly believed that. I don't know if it actually happened. I can't imagine somebody putting dog hair in somebody's coffee. Just seems like such a strange thing, But they believe it.

It's gospel. This belief in the untrue and the ability to convince her family of it, is one of Angela's strengths, according to forensic examiner Joseph Markin. You know, you think about Billy, and you know Billy's they're teaching young Jake how to hot wire car and sealing it. Well, she's doing the same thing. It's justifiable for you to betray somebody that you claim to love if it's for the

greater good of the family. And so it's amazing how you can psychologically leverage somebody with information like that, isn't it? Where you can be the driver that you have this endwelling inertia, you know that carries over to the family and push him in the direction which you so desire. It was one belief in particular that Angela held that helped set in motion the events that led to the

murder of the Manly and Gilly families. Angela testified she became worried her granddaughter was being abused while staying with the Roden family. She said, quote, I realized something was happening, some kind of abuse was going on that needed to be stopped. Agela Wagner was asked if she loved Hannah. She said, yes, I did at one point, but issues

made me feel like it was being sexually abused. Angela said she became concerned over signs of abuse and claims that her grandchild would often appear reluctant to leave and return to Hannah since they had shared custody. James Pilcher here's her direct quote. She said, I realized something was happening, some kind of abuse was going on that needed to be stopped. And she said she didn't trust child services or the law, our law enhorsement, and neither did her husband, Billy.

We've already established that Billy was a doomsday or Billy hated police. Billy paid his kids to spot police. Billy taught his kids how to be thieves, so this all fed into it. Although Angela didn't want to kill him, some of the ways she would answer, she was like, well why did you do this? We were protecting and she almost appeared like she was in a fog on

a stand. But then when it got to that, it was almost like she was razor white hot when she would talk about protecting that little girl, and then they talked about Angela's passed in the Air Force and all of this surrounding ever present fear of sexual abuse, and it became almost a paranoia and you could see it

in display clearly when she started talking about that. So the lead reasoning has been that she felt as though it was being sexually molested or was going to be sexually molested, not that there's ever been proof of that, but that was the reasoning, and that at some point she noticed that Frankie Rodin kissed on the lips saying goodbye,

and that felt a little strange. In fact, she actually says that told her mother, Rita Nookam, who at the time was living next door to her with her grandmother, that she was being touched inappropriately, and then Rita Newcomb repeated that to Angela, and then Angela repeated it to

Jake and the entire family, George and Billy. At that point when Jake found out about it, rather than talking about it with the Rodents or anything, they just started putting this plan together to protect her, and she had to protect the babies. But apparently Angela Wagner's assertions of abuse were not based in reality. This fear that the little girl would be molested. The prosecution basically says that was something they kind of whipped up in their heads

to justify what they wanted to do. They are entitled and feel that those children should be with them and no one else. There is no doubt that this family wanted those kids to be under Wagner and that's what this is all about. They had convinced themselves there may have been some abuse, but that was basically window dressing for their their belief that these kids should belong to them, regardless of any actual evidence of abuse. The idea had been planted in the minds of the Wagner family, and

Angela stoked the fire. I think that she's probably arguably the smartest one in the crew, and the reason I think that that's it's quite ominous. I think she knew what buttons to press with all three of these men in her life. You know, she's probably known how to control them their entire life her at least that portion

of Billy's life that he was with her. She knew, you know, where to press, how far she could go to attain her goals, if you will, in any of this and anything that she she set her mind to doing. And you know, she she wanted to be be the head hancho, you know, in the family, and she was. She told Jewors she suspected the Rodents were abusing, did not take her to the doctor. Said, we didn't believe in the justice system, didn't believe in children's services, she said.

By Nanuary twenty sixteen, her husband started coming up with the plan they had to be murdered. She said. She went to her husband, Billy, with her concerns, saying she wanted to turn in Chris Roden Senior for growing marijuana. Billy nixed that, coming up with an alternate plan. She said, quote. The plan was they needed to be murdered. Later, she said, her husband told the entire family quote, this was going to change everything. According to Angelo Agnes testimony, Billy came

up with the plan for murder. Billy ultimately decided that the only way was to kill Hannah, and that they couldn't stop short of killing Hannah Rodin, the mother of but they would have to kill Chris Rodan Senior because he ultimately exercised control over Hannah and the Roden family, and that other witnesses, other members of the Roden family would have to be killed for it to be successful. That's essentially what Angela testified, and that really was Billy

who was the driver here. Angela wanted to hern Chris Senior in for his marijuana and then that would get the family in trouble, and therefore maybe Jake would get more visitation rights or more control over the over the fate of his daughter and her granddaughter. Well, of course that cut too close for home for Billy, because Billy had been in business with Chris. Chris Sinior had tried to teach Billy how to grow marijuana. And then so she says, Billy came up with this alternate plan. Here's

the quote quote. The plan was they needed to be murdered. Yeah, and then it progressed from there that, Okay, we're gonna start talking about how we're going to do it. And she said that they would actually have conversations with the water running or outside in the carboard, with the car running, without the TV's on, with no phones around, because they're

so paranoid of being overheard. During one of these meetings with George and Jake Wagner in the kitchen, Angela asked her sons if they wanted to go through with the murder. According to Angela, they said yes. Joseph Morgan says that the accusation of molestation would get the rest of the Wagner family to do what Angela wanted. She was the person that had the thirty thousand foot view of the

entire family. She saw where all the weaknesses were, she saw where the strengths were, and she knew what the goal was in order to win, you know. And I think that her endgame has always been to have, you know, total control over the Wagner family. And you know, she was going to be she's a run her own ship, and she's she's the master of the ship as well, and all of these people are there to do her bidding. And you know, Billy may have had this thought at

a real primal level. I think that he needed to take care of the road. And but it was, in my opinion least it was Angela that was overlording all of this all the way along. In episode four thirteen, we saw evidence of how Angela manipulated Billy through text messages. I am moving on. You are more than walk to come bring babies and come on, Angela, well, they are not our babies. And I would never do that to George and Jake. I would have killed someone if they

would have even mentioned going away with my babies. And if you really missed me, you would do anything or go through anything for me. Billy. It's a fine mess, Angela. Well, maybe it is worth you helping me work it out, Billy. I got a plan if you just take one damn minute and listen, Angela. Okay, tell me, Billy when I see you. This is the last time I am going to try. If the three of you don't take time to listen to me, then oh well, Angela okay. Joseph Morgan,

isn't it amazing? A fun? You know? And Angela is certainly a fun example of this. It's very easy for her to rationalize and justify her actions. She doesn't necessarily do in court, but the lead up to it, when she's the driver behind all this, is that she's looking out for the greater good of the family. You know.

It's the women. The women are all women of ill repute, the kids that she does not have in her immediate control, run the risk of being sexually molested, that she needs to be one to provide watch care, and the family has to watch over him at all time. The rest of the world is evil, We're the ones that are right. And isn't that interesting how her worldview kind of parallels that of Billy's. While Angela testified it wasn't her idea to murder the Rodents, she did admit to helping plan

the crimes. Now well understand, Angela Wagner admitted to him staying at home on the night of the murders, but said she helped her sons and husband prepare for them. Here's Prosecutor Angela Kaneppa laying out what Angela Wagner bought to prepare for the murders. She admits to buying the shoes for her sons. We show Jake at least his awards card being used to buy seven, six, nine thirty two AMMO and a magazine for SKS. Also in April, there was a phone jammer purchase by Angela. A phone

jammer jams signals for phones. So say you're going to go murder eight people and you don't want them to be able to call for help. Then you have a phone jammer on your person and it jams the signals. But that was purchased and a bug detector was purchased by Angela. The financial records also just confirm what we already knew, which was they function as one unit and

pretty much everything they do financially is no exception. Angela said that Billy came to her with this idea, that they discussed it outside in this area of you know, like carpoort type area, and I'm trying to like envision where exactly that would be. But they were outside the home on Peterson Road, and Billy came up with this and then she said, you know that they included did the boys, But she said she didn't go along. She did order things. She ordered what Billy told her to order.

She said, Jake told her to go buy the Walmart shoes, and so she did, and you know, it was just kind of like she was the shopper Almos. This is what it sounds like. Billy took care, I guess of everything else, and the boys took care of everything else. So you know, it sounds like she was kind of throwing it all on Billy. Let's stop here for another break. According to Angela's testimony, Billy said they needed a vehicle

for the murders. Angela told George to get five thousand dollars out of their safe and use that to purchase the truck that would be used the night of the murders. Here's Stephanie. She was definitely saying it as though this was Billy and Jake Joy Orange's plan. And yes, she was kind of going through the paces to stick to their story. And yes she went and she bought the stuff, and the shoes were something that she actually purchased. Quite obviously.

They have her on camera doing it, so on the one hand, she's sort of just a bystander to it, and to this day claims she doesn't know the nightly details. Angela testifies that prior to the murders, Billy came over one night and was telling everyone quote, come on, come on, but apparently nobody listened, and so Billy got mad and left. Nobody was moving fast enough, but the next day Billy

Wagner came back. He told them to get ready. Prosecutor Kneppa asks of Angela knew who was going through the killings. Angela's response, No, I didn't ask and I wasn't told about the murder. To this day, she doesn't know the details of what happened that night because they've never told her and Billy never told her. All she knows is what the plan was, that she had to keep the phones and that at a certain time she would send out a text as she was supposed to kind of

place the phones at the house. When Billy, Jake, and George left for the road and households, Angela claims she was conflicted. Angela testified about the actual day of the murders, saying she saw Jake, George, and Billy Wagner leave that evening. She said she was overwhelmed with emotion after they left, fearing they might not come back or even what might happen. Angel also testified she thought about racing after them to stop them, but realized it was too late. Jeff and

Angeanette Levy. This is according to her. She stayed home that night. It was just really interesting to me because she did her part, and then she said she had taken an ivy prof and so she fell and then she fell asleep. So you know, she fell asleep as they went on this horrific mission to kill people, even though she said she felt bad about it and thought, oh, I wonder if I could stop it. But you know, oh but I had the kids here, so she didn't take any steps to stop it. Do you buy that

at all? I mean, I think she might have had some misgivings, but no, I find it hard to believe that. Your excuses, Oh well, I'm home with the kids, so I can't stop them from going and killing eight people or even one person. I mean, come on, if she wanted to stop it, she could have stopped it. As news coverage shows, the horrific events of the night unfolded as the Wagners had planned. The night of the homicide, she said, the three Wagner men left the house together,

returned together the next morning. She did not know who did the shooting, did not want the details. That night, eight members of the Rodent, Manly, and Gilly families were murdered. Angela testifies that the next day she heard about the murders on the news. George Wagner's mom did say today that while she knew what was going to happen six years ago, the homicide still shocked her. She remembers asking her husband Billy why so many victims? His response quote,

because they were there. During cross examination of Angela Wagner, an attorney for her son George, keet on two themes, Angela's lies and her paranoia. The defense team's goal is the cast blame for the twenty sixteen Pike County massacre on Angela, her husband Billy, and George's brother Jake, but

not the man on trial for murderer. We've heard so much about her, you know, we've talked about her for years, and she's been kind of like the center of all of this, and this is the culmination of all that. I mean, what's your take on hearing it straight from her mouth finally? Well, I mean, it's shocking to hear it really is. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on

Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pike and Maskers produced by Stephanie Lidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti Music by Jared Aston. The Piked Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.