This was a case with shocking violence. I, like everyone else, wanted answers.
Somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that turned out to be me.
We're strong and we're not gonna let whatever you want to refer to him as break up our family or make us cold or heard in our hearts.
This is the Idaho Massacre a production of KAT Studios and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode eleven. After the Headlines, I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Alison Bankston, and Gabriel Castillo. After Brian Coberger pled guilty last July, his name and face have slowly begun to fade from the headlines. News feeds every hour of every day have grown quiet. The horror he unleashed at the University of Idaho still casts a shadow, but finally it's
starting to drift into the distance. We've been reporting on the Brian Cobeger case since the very beginning, from that first breaking news alert to every twist and turn that followed, and now, as his story reaches its final chapter, ours does two. In this episode, we hear from Moscow mayor Betge on how his town once bucolic and quiet was forever changed on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and how
they're finding ways to move forward. We're also joined again by Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother Stephen, who shares what it's been like for his family now that the case is finally over. But first, Stephanie Leideker, crime analyst, Body Movin and I reflect on our own journeys throughout this story and how covering the murders of Madison Mogen, Kayleie Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin have affected each of us. Here's Body, I.
Think acknowledging the emotional toll that this has taken on everyone as important in that even if you're approaching this case from an analytical standpoint, as I have really tried to do and not get emotional, vicarious trauma is still a real thing.
It's really hard to believe that it was three years ago because I remember so distinctly exactly when it happened. I mean, I remember that the Christmas lights were still on.
I remember that the couch that they partied on was still outside, that the kids congregated on, and I definitely did not anticipate and could not have anticipated that it would end the way it did in the court, that it was a plead out up until the last minute, after all of the negotiations and glorious motions back and forth, that it ended with a whimper instead of a roar.
I think when we started this project, I personally set out to almost disprove that Brian Coburger could possibly be the killer. It didn't make sense. You know, a PhD student, as we've talked about so much, a loving family, someone who had a lot of opportunity, and you know, listen this particular case, it didn't check any of the very air quote common themes. It didn't involve greed, revenge, or heartbreak.
It just didn't check any of those boxes. And I think the fact that there didn't seem to be an obvious motive has always frankly kept us up at night. Brian Coberger has no real connection to any of the four victims, and to me, that remains shocking. And I think we were all scratching at trying to figure it out or trying to have it make sense. And I guess that's the unknowable journey that I guess we just
won't get to because there is no obvious answer. These are four incredible humans who lost their lives seemingly senselessly, and it makes us think about just randomness or you know, crimes of opportunity. What does that mean? How is it possible that the person who was studying crime became the criminal himself. We still don't have a clear answer as to why, and I think that's going to be a bottomless pit for so many. And listen, we talk about
this very often speaking of closure. It's it's this ripple effect. It's so many were affected by this, ourselves included. We're not related to any of the victims. You know, we don't know Madison Mogen directly. We don't know Kaylee Gonzalveez or Xanerkernodle or Ethan Shapin, even though our hearts are with their families. We've all been obsessed with understanding this better. And I guess the takeaway really is that we all care very much.
Often we attached to a case because it resonates with something personal like injustice or loss, curiosity, or even just empathy, and once we identify why it mattered to us so much, on like a personal level. Maybe we can redirect that same level of empathy to something important moving forward to help us even move forward. I think it's important to remember why we cared. I.
Like everyone else, wanted answers and was on the search. You know, we all teamed up pretty much immediately because it just seemed like this nightmare happening in some place so idyllic at such a perfect time in a young person's life, when everything is still ahead, that we all just got hyper invested. I think collectively, the whole country got hyper invested. This case ripped our hearts out, and that whole will remain right.
I think this was a case with shocking violence, and it had this small town like backdrop, and for the first six weeks there was this who done it kind of mystery, and you know, the sleuthing culture that I've been a big part of, and the combination of those things made this case and very intriguing. And then Brian Cooper gets arrested and we learn that it's a smart criminology student, and it took on a whole new role, and then you know, we have all this legal drama
and IgG being used in an open active case. It just made everything very intriguing.
The pure innocence, not that anyone deserves any death, but they were not out stealing drugs or whatever you would. I mean, just like perfect innocence on the absolute precipice of the beginning of their lives. And anyone who's had that kind of group of friends, I think there was a relatability and even watching the videos, here's another reason I think it blew up because there was so much of them on social media. You could see them, and you can see their loves and they're dancing.
One of the things that I think made this case blow up. It was this small town backdrop and this idyllic college experience that a lot of us really wish we would have had. This idyllic American town that has this amazing campus, the University of Idaho. Almost became the fifth victim because so many people that live in that town were being harassed and accosted by media.
And the trauma itself of the event, just knowing that something so scary could happen so close. Remember, this is a small neck community where people send their children because it's so safe. That's where you're supposed to romp and have fun at university is because there's this implied safety, So just the fact that it's not the case is also proof that this kind of thing can happen anywhere.
And then you know, you've got crazies out there like me wondering what's going on, probably calling the Moscow Police Department, incessantly asking for updates, wondering when the next press conference is coming, ceteracit et cetera. It must have been a lot for the City of Moscow to manage.
The town of Moscow, Idaho, took an unimaginable turn when the murders at one one, two two King Roade occurred on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. One of the people on the front lines was Moscow Mayor Art Betge. As the city faced an onslaught of national media attention in the aftermath of the murders and Brian Coberger's arrest, Mayor Betcky served as a crucial liaison between the community and
the outside world. We spoke with Mayor Betgy to hear his first hand account of what it was like to lead a small college town through an unthinkable tragedy.
When you became mayor, did you ever see your term going in this direction.
Oh heck no. I was thinking, geez, four years of quiet, just housekeeping things going on would be nice. And turns out I made it for eleven months and thirteen days, and then what I never wanted to happen did November thirteenth. It was kind of a mediocre morning, kind of like the snow that had fallen before was kind of melting off in places, and just kind of the kind of day. I was returning from a trip to Costco thirty five miles away. Driving off the road, phone lights up with
a text that said there's been homicide in Moscow. Four people have been murdered. And my first thought was, oh, brother, this is going to be really, really bad, And so got back to town and waited for more news. I didn't want to hinder the police in their investigation, so I just stayed right away from that and waited for more news to come, which it sort of trickled in for the most part unhelpfully.
And what were your big duties in those early days when everything was kind of come into a head.
Well, it's just provide the resources to the police that they need to do the investigation and make sure that the budget is freed up for the inevitable overtime and then stay right out of their way because they certainly have enough to do without having a politico looking over their shoulder. So after that it was turned into the point of somebody needs to speak for Moscow, and that turned out to be me.
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. After the murders at one one two two King Road, the quiet town of Moscow, Idaho, was instantly flooded with national and local reporters, along with countless social media sleuths and tik talkers, all searching for answers about what happened to Madison Mogan, Kaylie Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. In the midst of the chaos, Moscow Mayor Art Betge stepped forward to help manage the media onslaught
and protect law enforcement from its constant demain. Here's Mayor Art Betkey, joined by KAT Studios producer Alison Bankston.
Now to start with, I'm a biochemist, i am not really a professional politician, and I'm certainly not a crisis communicator, so things were difficult.
What was it like taking on this new role, especially coming from you know, working in biochemistry, and then all of a sudden, it's kind of like you're the spokesperson for the town dealing with this tragedy. What is it like to transition into something like that?
Horrible, just awful. But a transition to an event like this is a lot different than a transition to something about, ooh, we're having a big festival in town or something like that. The major problem was dealing with the national media. The local folks are all very good, They have a vested interest in the community, and there are neighbors already and they understand. However, the national media, I don't know what's
a good analogy. I suppose the national media is like a strip mine where they come in wreck havoc on the environment and then leave with a big mess behind them. And dealing with the national media, where they really care only for a SoundBite, is difficult. It's a daunting task, and trying to navigate that in a fashion that does not demean the magnitude of the event or harm those who are directly involved or even peripherally involved, is a
really tough task. I didn't know many of the details of what went on and people asking with the implication that I'm hiding something when I really I avoided getting involved with the investigation so that when I said I don't know, I don't know because I deliberately isolated myself from the investigation and the evidence. So it was really terrible to try to explain these people who are going, well,
we heard that, we haven't heard that. I don't know what to say, so you probably know more than I do, which was frequently the fact.
I can't imagine someone just being like, you're hiding something. Especially with these investigations, everything has to be so tight lipped to protect the integrity of it. Sorry you had to go through that, well.
Thank you. But I must give kudos to our police department. They weathered a lot of criticism. They were extremely tight lipped. They protected the evidence, they protected the case, They didn't say anything that would give away the direction of the investigation to alert the perpetrator, and frankly, they did a
bang up job. It was interesting watching the emails come in where people were impugning the police department as being a bunch of Keystone cops, inept, unable, overwhelmed, useless, botching the investigation, and that went on until about December thirtieth, when the rest was made, at which point the tenor of the emails switched one hundred and eighty degrees. Brilliant job they did, so great? What perfect policing things like that.
It's kind of people you all are just bonkers. And I don't think the prevalence of social media has helped one whit in any of this, where people can hide behind anonymous emails make the most egregious comments.
What was it like when ron Coberger was arrested? When that news was revealed in Moscow? Did it feel like a weight was lifted off of everyone's shoulders? Can you kind of take me back to the moment that you found out that an arrest was me.
I knew something was coming down the pike. I was alerted the day before that there would be something coming. Didn't say what, just prepare yourself. But when the news did come out, I swear there was a waft of a breeze coming down Main Street. That was a collective sigh of relief. And that pertains not only to the citizens of Moscow, but the students in attendance at the university here because after the Thanksgiving break a great many of them did not come back to town on the
campus out of concern for their safety. Were starting to get pretty worried about what is the attendance at the university going to be at the start of the new semester. And I will say that students make up probably about a third of the population of Moscow. Is substantial. And so when the thirtieth of December rolled around the arrest was made, as I indicated, the tenor of everything changed drastically.
And then when school started up the eight nine of January something like that, more students were back than had been in attendance at spring semester of the year before, and overall higher attendance at the university than in any of the past years. So really good. So having that arrest when it occurred, really changed the way people looked at things, and it was the start of some sort of return to normalcy for the city.
Absolutely. And were you surprised that it was Brian Colberg or someone from a neighboring college or like or what did the community really think when they had saw this guy, like this is the person?
Well, the first thing they said, well, who the hell is this guy? Nobody knew he wasn't on anybody's radar. It was just where did this guy come from? Everybody was bamboozo. So of course, the analogy I always use for this is from Lord of the Rings, where Sam and Frodo were marching across the plains of Mordor to ditch the Ring, and the Great Eye of Souran is sitting there looking looking all over the place, looking at him, looking at him, looking at him, you know, trying to
spot him. And then the guys show up at the front gate to Mordor, and the Great I of Souran flipped instantly. Same thing happened here. So we had all this media attention about how inept and stupid we are, And then as soon as Coburger's name came up as a student at Washington State University over in Pullman, which is a short six miles away, the entire media attention flicked and was aimed square at Pullman. And it was
a weird phenomenon. The amount of the jolting change that occurred at that point stunning, And I don't think Pullman I was quite ready for it, probably more so than we were when all of this happened. But still they got the media attention on them, and it was tough for them too.
I can only imagine and for Moscow, for the community as a whole, how were they all impacted by this tragedy.
The impact on the community was vast because Moscow is a pretty tightly knit town. So in Moscow you wind up with either you knew the students or you knew somebody who knew them, And so the whole town is directly or just slightly indirectly associated with the students who were murdered here. And it's something that you can't get away from. And so the impact here was vaster than it would have been in a larger city, right.
Yeah, absolutely, And then how does the community feel about the plea deal.
There's a bifurcation there where some people who are interested in retribution really wanted the death penalty. Other people who wanted the case closed were fine with the life sentences without a chance of ever getting out. Frankly, to me, a death penalty judgment would have generated an endless series of appeals which bring up the issues and the gory pictures and everything else again and again and again, inflicting
further misery on the families. Friends, acquaintances of the murdered students, And what is the point if you get a death penalty you appeal for years. We've got one guy on death row who's been there for something like thirty years, And really, is there a whole lot of difference between life in prison without a chance for parole and the death penalty when you get right down to it, other than tormenting the family and friends in appeals cases for
years and years. So I think the sooner that the key is thrown away and the perpetrator is in jail for good, that we can just scratch him off the list and say sit there and rot right.
And then, for you personally, it's been almost three years since this horrible tragedy occurred. What does it feel like to finally have this case closed, to have the perpetrator in prison, and the thought of a lumin trial finally passed you?
Well, I'm hoping that, like dropping a rock in a lake, you get ripples coming out, large ripples at first, and then they gradually abate, And I'm hoping for something like that. But I'm also aware that a case like this is going to spark media interest for a long long time and It's also going to be memorialized in a more
special way around town. I'm sure every November thirteenth at the Memorial Garden that was established at the University of Idaho there will be ceremonies and remembrances that go on there. So it's not going to be forgotten. But I think over time we'll have learned the lessons. We'll treat each other well, because everybody is going to deal with this and grieve in their own fashion, and we should let everybody have their space to do so in their own way,
and that's going to take time. The great Healer of all things, as it were.
How do you want people to remember Moscow after all of this?
Oh, I think we're resilient folks here and we will get back to doing what Moscow does best, which is providing a lovely, safe, inviting environment to everybody who lives here. And I do believe we'll get back to there. This isn't just a story. This involves real human beings, the families, the friends, and everyone directly and indirectly associated with these events. And just remember that and give people some slack to
grow within themselves, change and respond to it all. So mostly just remember these were people.
Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in a moment. Madison Mogen, Kaylee Gonsalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Shapin were bright lights, kind, loving and full of promise. Their lives were stolen far too soon by an act of pure evil, and still their families are left grappling with the haunting question of why Why were their beloved children robed from them? Their lives cut short without reason
or mercy. Unfortunately that answer may never come, and yet, through unimaginable loss, these families have shown extraordinary strength, finding ways to honor their loved ones and keep their memories alive. Here's Kaylee Gonsalvez's brother, Stephen Gonsalvez, sharing how the end of the case has impacted him and his family. He's joined by Kate Studios producer Alison Bankston, with.
Coberger taking his plea deal. What has it been like these past few months, just kind of coming up for air after living in this horror for almost three years? What is it like to finally be at the end of it, to just start healing.
Yeah, I don't know. It sucks. It never should have played out like this. I don't know. In some ways, we just I don't know.
I feel like I don't get closure from three hots and a cot, and this guy gets a gym membership for free for the rest of his life. And every time I go to work and clock in and clock out, those taxes go to him.
It's a joke. It's really unfortunate. I don't know if closure is the right word.
I guess the silver lining of that would be that he's not still out.
He can't do this to any other human or any family.
And how has all of this kind of changed you in your family? I am so in awe of the strength in your family and just you bound together and you got through this horrible, horrible thing, and you have so much resilience you in your family. And how has this all changed you guys? And where does this resilience come from?
Definitely my dad. I mean my dad raised us that way.
You're not going to complain about anything that you're not willing to change all kinds of lessons growing up, and you're not going to just sit there and complain. In general, it doesn't help anything. Get up, get off your ass, and change something. Whether that's the view or whether that's your job or whatever it is. That that's just how we're always raised to be strong, to be independent, to be you know, courageous or whatnot stand up for what
we believe is right. We're strong and we're not gonna let whatever you want to refer to him as break up our family or make us cold or heard in our hearts. It's just it's pick it up and keep going and do what you can. You better have some pretty fucking awesome stories to tell Kaylee when you get to heaven and you see her.
And what do you miss most about your sister?
That's tough.
Kaylee was always the person to find in new spot and we need to go, And then my.
Dad's like, yeah, we'll go. And then she's like, Okay, where's your car.
Because I'm going to book the flights there and I'm going to plan our tripe.
Well, she kind of liked them, not spokesperson, but kind of the family ring leader, saying, you know, let's do this together, let's do that. I feel like every family has one of those.
Yeah, definitely. I mean she was the middle child, so you know what about me? You know, if anyone brought up do you want.
To go here.
Yeah, Kaylee wanted to go and she had already planned it, so in a sense, yeah, definitely.
How do you want your sister to be remembered? Would you say?
I just remember Kaylee as the girl who graduated high school, went to college, went and liked the party, joined a sorority, did everything right, even a role model for some people. She meant as anybody would think, a lot to our family.
As this case comes to a close, our hearts go out to the families and friends of Medicine Mogan, Kallie Gonzalvez, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin their lives and the light they brought into the world will never be forgotten. The horror and heartbreak of that night will forever be etched in our minds, but so will the strength, the love, and the resilience shown by those left behind. Next week, please join us as we reflect on the case as a whole and answer some of your most pressing questions.
More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Massacre is produced by Stephanie Leideker, Alison Bankston, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design by Jeff Toois, music by Jared Aston. The Idaho Masacre is a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.