Ep. 68: Dick Moves, Redefining the Hunting Narrative & Modern Huntsman's Tyler Sharp

of the missions of Minor Huntsmen. But before we do that, we had our new editor in chief, Anthony Lakata, on to talk about exactly that do we need to redefine the hunting narrative? Who gets to do that? How do we communicate that. It's a little bit of a complicated topic, but it is a good thing to aspire to, but it's a complicated thing to communicate, so we're gonna cover that.

We also started talking about not only hunting dick moves, but office dick moves, and our our engineer Phil gave a couple of really good ones, so you're never le's stick around for that. Um. But before we get to all of that. First Light has a really cool new film out called ursus Idaho. It's a spot in stock spring bear hunt. It's a really cool film. I just

got done watching it. Its first lights. Paul Peterson, he drew one of the most covered in spring black bear tags in the lower forty eight and Paul is he's a former elk guide um and as a Wisconsin native. Is his first bear hunt and it's pretty damn entertaining. So go to first Light dot com and watch that film ursus Idaho with Paul Peterson. It's pretty cool. I like it. I think you will too. So without further ado, we're gonna get to episode number sixty eight. Let's go.

I guess I grew up on in all the road bet do the medal though, did what I've told until I found out that my brand new clothes, the games that can have from the rich kids next door, and I grew up baths. I guess I grew up. I mean, there are a thousand things inside of my head I wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to a real bad dream of being a like I'm coming apart of the scenes, But thank you Jack Daniel seven Hey, everybody, welcome to the Hunting Collective. Of course, have been O'Brien,

and you're gonna be hearing this podcast on July. Second. We're in July. Placata feels like it. Sonny, it's Montana. Welcome to Montana, by the way, thank you. You're moving here like the rest of us, meet eaters. I am. I'm moving here in about a month, so I can't wait. Yeah, you have some young children that are excited to explore

all that Montana has to offer. Absolutely, took my kids out fish and this weekend they came for a visit check out the new hometown, and um, yeah, I just want to get here while there's still lots to do there very much until the smoke comes in August. Now we're not supposed to people tell me. I'm not supposed to talk so glowingly about Bozeman all the time. So it's also very cold in the winter. It's snowed two days before I got here earlier this week, so keep

that in mind. Yeah, I got pulled over by a cop two months ago, so it's you know, there's some bad things in Bozeman as well, So I just try to try to make sure everybody understands. It can be a terrible place. It's awful. It's awful. Don't come, you know, like the ski resorts are crowded. Yellowstone, it's just buffalo everywhere in the road even sometimes how do you even drive through? You can't drop to these buffalo It's terrible. Hey, Phil,

Phil's back. I'm back. How much hate mail did you get? No? No, haymail? Phil, Um, that's good. I was wondering if you got recognized anywhere your voice, you know. Oh yeah, I think I was just telling you beforehand. I was that was grocery shopping, and um, you know, I just I I asked the cashier. I told her I'd like some I like I'd like plastic bags. And she said, oh, hold on a minute, the hunting Collective. Yep, yep, of course she did. I said, you know it, you know it, lady, I'm Phil, It's

Mr Taylor to you. Alright, perfect, Well, that means you can stay on the show. That's it for you for the day. Thanks for joining us. Um, we're gonna talk about I would call some heavy topics, as we always try to do here on the show. Um, but I'm trying to figure out I was trying to figure out a thing we would do. It's the off season. There's no hunting going on, so we can't tell hunting stories, so it leaves a lot of dead air. Absolutely, I

can't tell fishing stories. They're boring. We just be like we were fishing and then we caught it fish that it's pretty much the whole story, So we can't tell fishing stories. I'm trying to figure out like a thing that I can do, like top bullets, top hunters of all time, to get everybody interested in debating about things, but I'm not. It's been a long week and I have no idea. I was gonna plan something. I don't have anything. Yeah, did you come up with in the

four minutes since you asked me to think about it? Yeah? Uh no, Right, it's uh, this is a kind of thing that's real hard to rank, but it's fun, right, it's fun to think about that stuff. I mean, uh, that's part of the fun of arguing about it. I mean, I have my like top stuff. I mean, I think top things I love to do. Whether they're what you love to do, I don't really care. They're might top things. I think they're the best Oh, that's the top reasons

why my things are better than you're right. Maybe top podcasts. I can think of five really good ones. They're all they're all on the Mediator Network. It's weird that they're all the best. It's fine. So anybody right into t ac it's meted dot com and help me out. I'm trying to them up with some real catchy things to ways to rank and debate about pretty inane topics over the summer when we're board, So please right in and

give us some ideas. I was gonna have. I was gonna whip out some real cool thing, but I just I couldn't think of anything. So I apologize. When you are stump, that's the thing. Make your audience do the work for you. That's right, exactly what it's called being resourceful people. And this is a weekly show. Sometimes I get tired, Okay, So thank your t HD at the meter dot com. Please please, um, we're gonna get We're

gonna start this conversation off. We have an interview. In the interview portion of the show, we have Tyler Sharp, who is the well dressed editor in chief of Modern Huntsman. Modern Huntsman is a glossy yah, wonderfully put together Hunting Magazine, which I believe is in its third volume, and that volume is on wildlife management. It should be out by now. You should be able to go pick it up. What makes it interesting is that it's stated mission is to

redefine the hunting narrative. Now, boy, that's a that's a tall task. Why not set your sights high? I say, big ambition, big ambition. I once maybe thought that I could be the one. Since i've I've thought better of it. Try to be funnier, maybe the feels so we're gonna we're gonna get into that. But we had a gentleman right in, and always the people that right in have um hard to pronounce last names, so that's upsets me.

But this fellow's name is Andy d Russo, sorry if I mispronounced that Andy, But he wrote in he said, you asked for some feedback, and here I am giving it to you. I hope you Ben will continue to interview people from the industry, even in different views from yourself and your style, Folks like Michael Waddell, Ted Nugent, Chuck Adams, Fred Eichler, so on and so forth. I've had fred Iichler on, So go back and listen to

that one, But the other ones would be interesting. More of these story is and these amazing people that have different perspectives and different ways of looking at hunting in the industry would be interesting. And Andy's from Rogers, Arkansas. Um, yeah, man, I'm into that idea. Yeah, absolutely, that's what it's all about. I mean, different perspectives. That's one of the cool things about what we do. Um, the way I do it and was raised to do it and do it where

I'm from is different from someone else's experience. That's right. And that's what That's why I name this thing the hunting collective, because I'm like, well, if we can if we can somehow learn the collective perspectives and understand different parts of our community, why people think the way they do, and why they act the way they do, and why they value what they value, then maybe we can be better at thinking about hunting and analyzing the way we

do things. So thank you frightning, Andy. And that's a good bridge to the topic of of modern huntsmen and the stated purpose of redefining the hunting narrative. And at first we could just say Look, how do you feel like we need to redefine the hunting narrative. I'm not even sure what that means exactly. Um, you know, is there a hunting narrative that we all agree on? Um? You know, does that mean really what we do or or how we explain it to people? I'm not quite

sure what that means. Yeah, And and Tyler explains it um from his perspective and explains it well. But I think that from his perspective, the narrative is the narrative that's being imposed on our community rather than the narrative that we've created. Right, So the narrative being imposed on our community has to do with trophy hunting, It has to do um with murdering animals, like the negative stereotypical things that are applied to hunting. That's what he's talking about.

That's redefining that narrative, but also redefining what hunting means inside the community. It kind of shined the spotlight around and seeing what's there, right, saying, oh, what's over there? There's a guy doing something that I don't like personally, don't like and don't don't aspect. Is it my job to call that person out or is it my job to to do what I think is right and show

by example. So we we run into I've run into this, I'm sure you have in your career kind of run into Steve's analogy, Ronella's analogy, which is shooting holes in the boat. If somebody's in you're in the boat with somebody, they're shooting holes in and you're certainly gonna make him walk the plank. And so you have that analogy with the other analogy is what makes you the judge and jury, what makes you the person to raise your hand up and say I'm right or I'm wrong, or this is

right or this is wrong. How how do we do that? Yeah, that's a really good point. It's, Um, I think it's obvious, right. I think that's the shooting holes in the boat is a very clear, a very smart way to think about it, right. But it does get a little bit tricky when there's some things that there are people who are never gonna like the hunting narrative. No matter what we do, we could do it in a way that, um, you know, we think is the best possible narrative for us, people

are still going to hate it. Um, that's not to say that we shouldn't you know, care about that narrative. We do. We all know that hunters are a very small minority in this country and we need the public to, if not support us, at least respect it and let us do our thing. Um, you know, so that that's yeah, it's embodied. We just had the super top secret content project that we did yesterday, and it's a body in the conversation around like where do we limit or how

do we limit our communication? And who can tell? Who is the one to be able to say like don't do that? And can we You know, I'm not a big grip and grand guy anymore. I was at one time. I am not now. Um, And I've said my piece on why I think that's that needs to be the way. But I think that argument just kind of embodies this conversation. Yeah,

that's right. It's it's a pretty tall order to to for for someone or a small group of people to say, hey, this, this is what the hunting narrative should be, this is what it should look like to the outside world. Um, as we said, as you said earlier, it's it's the hunting collective, right. We all come from different backgrounds and um,

cheating holes in the boat should be pretty obvious. But there's some things that, hey, it might not be my thing, but um, if it's done in a way that um is respectful to the resource, um uh, it's good for the environment. You know, kind of embodies what hunting is all about, even if it's not my thing. Um. You know, I don't know. Do we need to worry about what

someone else thinks about that? Yeah? Yeah, And and I think it's a generational you know, Tyler and I are about the same agement thirties, guys like it might just

be a generational thing. We feel the pressure, as you know, as folks whose parents didn't have that same pressure, and my dad didn't have the pressure of social media and the pressure of like, how are people going to take in this image that I've shared or this he didn't Right there was the bagboard at the local gas station and the act of his truck when he checked the deer in and then I never saw it in the

garage before they cut it up and ate it. So there just wasn't that pressure to continually think about how we speak about hunting or at what we do, and it can be a not I don't want to beat

people over the head of these ideas. But man, when somebody like Tyler comes along and you'll hear in a minute he says some things that, um, even for my taste, was like, WHOA, alright, cool, I'm glad, Like that's pretty blunt that, you know, to make an analogy of Like you know, sometimes when you get older, you stay on the porch and let somebody else figure out how to go forward. Um, I mean, that's that's people. I know

people will get prickly about that. When I when I heard him say it, I'm like, I know Tyler, know him to be a good dude, So I'm like, oh, he you know, he's making his point. He's making it pretty firmly. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a pretty tough thing to to say to people. Uh, you know who have been there before, you have been doing this a long time, who have um in one way or another advanced hunting and been the backbone of it. To tell him, well, your time has passed the way you did it, you

should just stay on the porch. Man. I don't know. I don't have I don't have the personal feelings I feel like I could tell anybody that. In the mission statement for for for Modern Huntcement, it says it's born out of frustration with the way hunting is often misrepresented today. This publication is told from the perspective hunting purists and the and the diplomatically minded, unaltered by the excuse of

mainstream media, corporate interests, or misinformed emotional rants. I mean that, yeah, what's your reaction, Uh, big ambition, ambition, it's you know, look without knowing. Um, that kind of sets you up to like you better have good arguments for for everything you're saying, and what's right and what's wrong. I myself, like, you know, I'm I'm pretty clear about what is good for hunting and what is and and doing things in an ethical, fair chase way and and always putting the

resource first, you know. But when I think about things that how hunting is portrayed, um or if it looks bad to the outside. UM, I feel a little uncomfortable making that call for someone. I mean, if if somebody's doing it the right way and someone takes it the wrong way, I'm not sure that I want to tell them not to do it. You know, my kids preschool, they have this Uh yeah, I'm talking about my kids preschool, right right, where's he going? Now? This is that's where

I get all my knowledge. Right. But they have this thing where they say, don't yuck someone else's yum. Right, some kid pulls out their lunch and some other kids like, yeah, that's gross, and you know the kid's eating it and he likes it. And I feel like that's kind of a way I look at things. There's some things in and hunting that aren't my cup of tea. Now I don't like to do them, but they are good. You know, they don't do anything bad. They don't shoot any holes

in the boat. And if it's something that gets people outside and that they enjoy doing, even if it's not my thing, I'm not gonna yuck their yum. Yeah, I mean you're gonna like that hashtag yuck my yum. I hope that's not. That's not hashtag yet. No, I like that, and I don't like I struggle with that all the time. Like as a person, I'm not I don't getting people's business. I don't want to getting somebody's business and tell them

how to better do the thing that they're doing. I'd be like, trust that they've thought it through and either will or won't find a better way to communicate if that's the goal. I mean, I think it starts. It starts with yourself, right, and I think maybe that that's what they're trying to do with minor huntsmen, right, And

that's great. And if you're going to be the example of how you think um hunting narrative should be to the outside world, great, but you do that by being an example and not necessarily by pushing other people back up onto the porch or whatever. You kind of lead the way. Yeah, right, Like I said, I mean, I don't, this isn't this is no way down and like you'll and you'll hear in the interview think the Mono Hunsban magazine is fans. Yeah, I do too. I think it's

very good. It's so fantastic and well done, well written, well photographed, well designed. It is it is well done. Yeah, it's it's really great and I have nothing wrong. I have no problem with that ambition right to do better. So we're always trying to do better, and we should as a community try to do better. It's just like how do you the question? And this could be seen as kind of frivolous. But the question is like, how do you express that feeling? Like, Dude, I see some

ship I don't like. I see some things I'm not real into. I think they're shooting holes in the boat. What what is my role in fixing that? You know? And so I think we all just take on different versions of that. The way I try to take it on is, as I said, kind of lead by example. I'm gonna do it my way. Um, I'm gonna tell people this is why I do it, and this is how I do it. I'm going to try to try to change the narrative that way. And if that's how

they're doing it, I think that's that's the right approach. Yeah. And my my thing for sure is, um, just starting the conversation. If I don't like something, I'm gonna go I'm gonna run right over to it. I'm gonna stand there and be like, who can I have a conversation with about this thing? And I'm gonna ask some tough questions. I'll probably um, my opinion will probably change over that time.

But the best way that I can think of to both understand the perspective of somebody you don't agree with and think might be shooting holes in the boat, but also too, you know, to make sure that there are any holes in your boat is to go over there and be like, what are you doing with that gun? Why is it pointing towards the whole I'm going to shoot in the air? Um, just questioning like, what's the motivation here? Why is it good? And I and then I think the next episode of the podcast, for a

future episode will have a vegan philosopher on. That's gonna be fun for everybody, hopefully. Um. And he asked me about trophy hunting, and I just said, look, it's complicated. He's like, what are you willing to say that all trophy hunting is bad? I'm like, boy, no, it's complicated like that. Am I Am I against all a holes? Yeah? Because because there he's just applying. All he was doing was applying the word trophy hunting to somebody that he didn't like. So if you say, Ben, are you against

all campers that litter yep? Right, yeah, sure, but that has nothing to do with the overall like acceptance of camping or putting a tent up somewhere and sitting out in the first and the hot dog. It's like, yeah, I'm if somebody just wants to cut the head off a deer and take it home, and I guess yeah. But the other point I made to him was why it's even more complicated because our system of game laws and are pretty much sets it up so that even if the guy is an asshole, he is still doing

good for the resource. He can't help it. Even if he's an a hole, even if he's all he wants to do is shoot a deer, cut its head off, take it home and show it to his friends, throwing the garbage. He's paid into a system that are going to make sure more deer are around. So we also have that to fall back on, because we we we we can't just kick out everybody we think might be you know that guy. Absolutely, I mean trophy hunting. We shouldn't even get into that because it's so complicated, right,

What does that mean? Because I like to kill big deer and have some some nice European mounts on the wall, that makes me a trophy hunter to this guy, probably, But he I also feed on my family on venison, and UM also feed um some good friend of mines of vegetarian who only eats the meat I kill, So I don't know that's technically vegetarian or not. But um, you know, venison diplomacy is as Ronella says, but um, you know to make that call is is pretty tough. Yeah,

it's how do you do that? What's it mean? This goes well into an article that ran on the meat eater dot com and this is way more insular, but it still has a lot to do with how do you call people out? It's called it is written by one Stephen Ronell is called the biggest dick moves a hunter can make. You should go read that over the meter dot com if you have a quick five minutes. It's a quick one. But he's got some examples here spots stealing. I mean that's pretty obvious spotting, spot exposing,

which I do on this podcast all the time. That's why I take a little bit of We have a segment called hot spot, cool dude or gal, depending on who's on the podcast, where I asked people to expose their spots and it's selfish. Is that is that a dick move? Are you? Um? Bringing more people into the sport and more opportunity? Dude? That was deep. That's exactly

what we're talking about. It's just how you look at I'm trying to be democratic, right, some people are mad at me because I'm giving their spots away, right, it will be selfish? Yeah? Am I gonna be selfish and keep this spot to myself? Or if I I know someone who's trying to get into hunting or needs to get out and has nowhere to go, and I tell him where to go? Um, you know, yeah, this is what the point of Pisces where I would like to

bring Phil and Phil what do you think? Uh? You know, I I'm not much of a hunting you know philosopher. Okay something your job is to say something profound. Okay, great, you hired the right guy. Anybody could be a hunting philosopher. Yeah, look at me, I I mean you you just said what Anthony said with profound it does it bring more people in and give them more opportunities. From where I stand, which is very far away from this, I'd say that that's a good point of view. Thanks Phil. Thanks, I'll

check back in with you a little bit later. Appreciate that we're gonna get Phil's getting I love you, Phil? Uh. Not cleaning game is one of Steve's dick moves. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah right, I'm want to change the title this to Steve's obvious dick moves. No one should ever even do sleeping in another one. Oh if that's like sleeping in, yes, I think he maybe is he arguing for sleeping in? No, except I will say, Um, I

know Steve's talked about this. I've heard it. Um, I don't sleep in when I tricked hunt because I feel like I want to be there at you know, before dawn obviously when the you first hear the birds off the roof, off the roost. But um, there was sometimes a couple of years ago where I could not hunt first thing in the morning, so that some things that had going on, and I killed more turkeys when I

started going at nine. As this is the truth. The truth about that is most turkeys are not getting killed off the roost like you. I've killed a few, but I've killed the ball of them at nine o'clock after they've gotten off the roost, got settled where they want to be, and then I can make a play or whatever. But yeah, hunt them off the roost is a get,

it's a game. But but it is cool to see the tree and just like I'll just get up under the I know he's gonna fly over there and I'm not gonna kill him, but it's cool to hear him in the truthy goblin And you know you can't sleep in as a hunter. That's the only thing I can really get up for. To be honest with you, I have a heart. Yeah, I'm wanna like if you're like, hey, four am, oh, there's a soccer game on London, I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not gonna I'm gonna hit the snooze

button kind of guy. Except when it comes to hunting fishing. Yes, I don't know. There's a couple other ones here. I I know I got one, which is just saying like I got this, I got this bird when you know you probably don't have it. Yeah. I mean sometimes you gotta throw a guy a bone when he's having a

bad day. Yeah you got it, especially especially a duck hunting when when two or three birds fall and he's like I think I got one of those, Like yeah, bro, yeah, A little pat on the back for guys, guy who struggling a little bit, you did it for you See, that's a non dick move by us brand new boots. Yeah yeah, and then complaining with no action, which we've kind of covered here, um a little bit. But those are all Dick moves. You have any other dick mops? Um? Yeah,

I think it's kind of a dick movie. Just bragg right when you're when you're bragging about what you did. Look, man, you have a great hunt. Whether that means you killed a big deer or really got back in there and got it done. That's good for you and you should be happy about it. But there's I don't know how to put it into words, but you know, you know what when you see it. When I was I was she hunting in the Northwest, terrices, I remember when I was in Nepal. Right, it was hard. See you brought

it up. Yeah, I do that all the time. I can't help either. I can't help it. I'm so I'm so great. Yeah I think I am. I think after recording myself for a year and a half, I just realized that I'm a dick. But but yeah, I mean you're talking to a guy no matter what you say, like, oh, you know, my dad and I we love to go feessant hunt yep, yep. By peasant hunt, Yep, I'm killing I killed my limit every time I go Hey, no,

I listen. This is my biggest dick move that I that bugs me is when somebody, whether it's a kid or a grown man or woman, kills a buck and someone says to that person, boy, he would have and something else in another two years lost. Man. You know, listen, I respect the idea of you know, hunting mature animals and proper wildlife management, and but that's an evolution that I think. Um, a lot of hunters have to go through on their own. And even if you never go

through it, that's all right. You know. My my father, Um, he gets out and not as much as he used to. And I mean he's gonna kill a small buck, and I'm somebody's gonna be like, oh boy, dad, that one would have been great next year. No, man, he's out there. He had a great time. Like when you say that to people, I just think you're you're taking a moment that was meaningful to them and you're kind of, you know, crapping on it. Being a dick. That's what you're doing. Yeah,

that's a good one. Let's see what I can think of one. Um, that's what. That's a really good one though, that may be the biggest. And then there's another one where like a guy might be watching a TV show and a and a child might kill a giant animal, and the first thing is like whatever, only because they're rich, because dad has money. They don't deserve that. What do you mean, right you? Weren't there a right that person?

You know, if my dad was rich and he took me run around the world to kill stuff, I would have loved it. Bring the criticism on all day. That's just jealousy, pure and simple. It's like just pure jel I can't whoa that that little kid didn't earn that kud? Well, what little kid earns a coup? No, But they're they're lucky to have a dad that would take him to do that. If you think, dude, if I could do that with my kid, I mean, I took my kid to Alaska two years ago fishing. That's awesome. I mean,

how dare how dare I? You just gave your spot away but unbelievable. Don't go to Laska. Don't there's bugs? I feel you have any uh any dick moves and just you can go since you're not a hunter. Just in general, like things people do around the office. Maybe maybe office that's a good Maybe that's a good office dick moves. Let's get that on. Yeah, well someone just left a bunch of Pickle Barrel sandwiches and the fridge.

Pickle Barrel is a local sandwich shop. Yeah, very tasty, notoriously smelly, very the onions are heavy, and they just left him in the fridge uncovered, and then the fridge smelled like like like onions, very very you know. But that was a light one light dick move. Yeah, I got I have to fess up. One of those sandwiches. Was they also they're big sandwiches, They're big, I can only have they are smelly. I was like, did you put them in uncovered? No? I did even something even worse.

I left my half eating sandwich on the conference table and left and someone else put it in the fridge. So yeah, that's a pretty dick move. Yeah, well I had another meeting. I'm sorry, listen, I said it was a light dick move, you know, Yeah that was me. Okay, I'll take ownership for that. Let's keep going. Let's Anthony's dumb.

I will say I did one. Yesterday. We were filming the thing, and you know, they have the lights on you, and it's all they want you to look good, and then they can if we ate lunch, and then we're continued filming. They gave us floss to make sure we don't have anything in our teeth for the filming. And I did the floss and then I set it down on the table and I walked away. Did you clip your toe nails too, that's nasty? Yeah, yeah, so and then Ronella goes, did you just leave your floss on

the table as a noe? And I put in my pocket and I walked away. Nope, won't me slowly shuffled away in shame? Any other office? You guys, you both are relatively new to the office, relatively new. Well, this guy keeps having me on his podcast and tries to get me to sound smart, and it's impossible you're gonna be a hunting philosopher. By the time, I was thinking that that was an obvious when you get this guy keeps putting on this podcast and try it puts me

in tough spots. It's really rough. Yeah, what other office? I like this topic? We're gonna probably cut out Tyler's and sorry, Tyler, We're gonna put you in a different We're gonna do another hour and a half just on office. What's the other you know, other office moves. People's dogs sometimes are just not We have a dog friendly office, and there's some people who know you know who you are. You're thinking, is he talking about me? I'm probably talking

about you. Your dog is annoying. Are you talking about the meeting we had earlier day where some of us, right in the middle of a really important point, the dog comes into the table biting her wrists. Don't She's trying to carry on with her point. And I don't want to tell you guys, but during the whole meeting, that same dog was licking my toes and I was like what. I was like, No, I'm kind of I'm not I'm not hating it. I'm into it a little bit.

Uh So, Yeah, there's that. That's one. The dog thing. The food thing is tough because we cook a lot of weird stuff. We cook crow with cook Mountain Lion, cooking bear today, and so it's a tough one. The smell because our desk Anthony are like right right in the danger zone for the if a guy was to

burn earned the meat. You know. Well, I used to work in New York City and one of my favorite cheap lunches was to eat meat you know called street meat, right, big plate of like um Middle Eastern food with the rice and onions. It was delicious. But man, everybody else like, hey got some street meat today, did you? It's coming out of your pores. It's going out of your pores. Yeah, all right, Phil, give us one more office dick move. Well, I was just thinking about the street meat because I can.

I can relate to that I got. I've only been to New York twice, but one time my one of my friends like, we're going to Halal guys at two am or whatever I was he ordered for me because I had no idea, and yeah, I couldn't get it out of my skin for about a week. It was. It's it's like, oh, yeah, I'm not sure this is an office dick move, but you brought it up by talking about the dog. Look at your feet. This is a flip flop friendly office man everybody has and like

slipping them off and some bare feet. Yeah I did say I did put my feet have we have a megadesk, you and I and I did take my flops off and put my feet on my desk. Was that today? Maybe? Yes, I didn't see that, thank you. Oh you weren't there there. But I mean I was actually chided by my co workers for not wearing flip flops soon enough. Well, dude, I came two days ago and I'm wearing my blunt stone boots that I wear all the time. I saw more than one person look at my feet in judgment,

being like, dudes not wearing flip flops. It's like six degrees that he should have flipp People in mind are so excited when the sun comes out, they're just like shirtless. I was like, it's forty eight degrees, calm down. Why don't wearing shorts? Bro? Like, I don't know, Yeah, that's that's not what we do. So yeah, there's a lot of judgments. Um, we've gone off the rails we have, which I really like. But I'm trying to change the narrow if the mediator office is really what I'm change refine,

So you're trying to redefine the mediator office narrative? What's the current nator flips and dogs flip flops and dogs, which there's only a few. If there's only a few ways that I could tell the story about the dog licking my toes in the office because there's not a lot of people here. Maybe you're listening to this in your office. Have you ever had a dog with your toes during a meeting when you're giving like some real impoor monologue about content and then there's like a dog

just down there. It's going to town. And then I'm thinking it's distracting me because I'm thinking, why is he licking my toes? What is all my toes that I took a shower? What's all my toes that shouldn't be there? Yeah, we're shoes. Yeah. So I'm gonna leave you guys with that that thought. What was all my toes? Right in and let us what you think top five things that you think might have been all my toes? We're really

going way off track. Um, all right, Well, if we're gonna get to the interview person of the show, all right, that is one of the best segments we've ever done. Uh, we're gonna get to Tyler Sharp and we're gonna go he lives down in Livingston, Montana and I went over

to his house. We had a really good conversation about what he does, um, what he wants to do, and his goals within the industry, and then some of his pretty cool stories from his time traveling with like some Jim Shocky and others filming and experiencing a lot of things and in a couple of a lion attacks story. Yeah, so that's cool. Where we got that going? So we're gonna transport ourselves in time to live me some Montana.

We're talking to Tyler Sharp, the editor in chief of Modern Huntsman enjoy I guess Tyler Sharp, what's up man now much? Just enjoying a Topo Chico over? Hey, maybe they would have sponsored the podcast? You think I would hope so, because it needs a larger presence in Montana. I think Topa Chico Now just came from Texas. I lived there for some time and it did enjoy it. And you are a dual resident of Texas and Montana,

which I feel is that's a pretty good combination. It is to have those two things, trying to maintain that, trying to be a fair weather resident in both places. So lay that out. Do you go down there during the wintertime and come up here during the summertime, because if you do, screw you, because that's awesome. I was here this winter, which was, you know, pretty cold, especially

out here. Um. But the idea, yeah, it would be summer here, fall here, and then maybe like you know, December through February or March in Texas, come back for spring here. Um. Finding that balance. But that's a fine that's a fine balance. I often tell people that if I could take the best of those two worlds, I would take it every day. And I used to. This winter in Montana wasn't so bad. Probably out here. You're out here in the in the middle of nowhere on

a beautiful ranch. I'm sure it was a little tougher out here than it was. It wasn't bad until February, and then there was a period of three weeks where it was fifteen below and we got three ft of snow, and so that that started to grind on me a little bit. But yeah, I mean, I went snowboarding and try to snowshoe and hike. But when you go outside and you're breath immediately freezes, You're like, yeah, that's not going to go for a run today, and you're where

are you born? Tell people you're kind of your where you're born? How you got to wear sung? I'm so little known secret and I hesitate to even tell the public at largness. I was actually born in Kansas City, Missouri, UM. When I was two, we moved to Austin. So grew up in Austin, and then we moved to Grapevine, which is in between Dallas and Fort Worth. Went to school there, uh.

And then I went to college at USC in Los Angeles, studied film and photography as well as psychology and Italian randomly. And then my first job was in Tanzania. So I'm moved to Africa and worked for a safari company and filmed and photographed hunts for six months. Uh. And that's kind of what put me on the trajectory of the hunting industry. So you explain that time in your life. I mean you you you talk about a lot of varied places, Missouri, Austin, USC and then over to Africa.

I want to talk a little bit more about Africa in this conversation, but describe that time where you first got to see that place and understand what it was it was, you know, everybody has their own vision. They've heard stories, they've read books, they've watched movies, and then you get there and it's kind of your own experience. And I remember getting there and and you know, it was way out in the bush, so we took a bush plane two hours out in the middle of nowhere.

And I get there. It's dark, and I meet some people in the camp and they kind of take me on this tour and they showed me the nice tents and and I'm like, oh cool. You know, I kind of put my back and they're like, oh no, no no, no, that's not your tent, that's the client tent. And they take me to the back at the camp, which is in the pitch black. I don't even know what the area looks like. And this is um in Tanzania. It's

it's called the Ruaha. It was the Usangu gamers Or, which is adjacent to the Ruajan National Park and um amazing area. And so I get out in this tent, They're like, okay, good night, and you know, I can hear hyenas immediately, and then I hear lions and I'm like, all right, well, maybe I'll just brush my teeth and go to bed. I literally step outside and I hear a lion roar. I'm like, you know what, I'm good.

I don't need to brush my teeth. So that first night was a little unnerving because I have never been there. I have no idea if a tent is safe. How close are those lions and hyenas? Um. But then I woke up and kind of saw the lay of the land. And um, I always say, I feel like I went there a boy and came back a man, because I literally, you know, no, this was before iPhones. There was no cell phones, there was no internet. There was a CB radio and a satellite phone that was it. And uh,

you know, we hunted for her own food. They had a shown by and Swahili which means farm, so they grew all their vegetables and we were eating everything that we grew and killed. And um, you know, I learned Swahili became like a family with all these people, learned how to track, could tell within ten minutes what time of day it was by looking at the sun. Um, and just uh it experienced this lifestyle that I didn't even know it was real, right, and then it changed

me completely. How could that not changeing. Yeah, and uh, I mean you want to talk about close encounters. I got charged by leopards. I had a lion come into my tent in the middle of the night and staring me down five yards away in a full don't don't pass that over. Tell both. Uh So the lions story, this is something I actually wrote about in in voyme one of modern Huntsmen. And um. So, it's an area called the Killing Barrow. Uh. It's a floodplain in central Tanzania.

And um, we were there hunting buffalo by river. You're in a boat with a triple decker, you know, observation tower, and a massia sits on the top and if he sees buffalo, he pulls the string and it rings the bell and the driver runs the boat. So you can't see anything. It's fourteen foot grass. Um. But lions are very present in this area and they're hunting these buffalo or whatever. Um. And the tent in our tent, the

zipper was broken on the mesh. And um it's so hot there that you can't sleep with the campus closed, so we were sleeping with the tent wide open. Of course, my bed is by the door. And um, Georgie Ferreira, who's this you know, half Greek, half Brazilian, Swahili speaking professional hunter. He's like man of the world. And he was like, oh, don't don't be a wors you know, it's fine lion. But so he's got the fourth four seventy double under his bed. He's asleep right feeling feeling

real good about that. And this is the last time I ever took um malaria medication. So um I And there's two different ones. There's malarone, which she is a ah, it's a daily pill, and then there's Larry UM, which is the weekly pill. So I that I had this weekly pill which gives you murderous nightmare sometimes. So I woke up in this panic like and my heart was racing, I was sweating, I was panicking and realized it was

just this well, you know, Larry medicine UM. And then about thirty seconds later, I hear which is a male lion right behind the tent. So I think, all right, do I have time to jump up, run out untie the flaps, close, the doors, zip it, jump back in. By the time I even flinched to do that, he called right next to my head outside the window just

so I'm like, all right, well, here we go. And um sat there and he walked out about to where that chair is, so less than five yards away, and six hundred pound male massive had this big mohawk may and it's a full moon, so it's super bright, and uh. I reached down to grab the bed frame because if he came, I was going to try to flip the bed on top of myself. Classic that that creaks like. And the lion just turns around and just stares me right in the eyes. And I'll never forget. It was soaked.

I mean I just got goosebumps thinking about it. It was deathly quiet, and I could hear the sand as he dug his paws in and started to crouch, and his tail started to do this, oh boy. And so I'm like, all right, well, goodbye world. Uh. And it felt like ten minutes, but it was probably only about fifteen seconds. And then he turned around, walked over to the river, rubbed his face on the fence, jumped in the river, swam off, and I was like, Georgie, wake up.

That damn lion was here, and you know, it gets up in his underwear. He's acting all tough like and the tracks were huge and so um he laughed. You know, we didn't see him. Next full moon, next exact month, same tent, same camp, Same lion comes back, but this time the door is closed and he literally lays on the porch and SAgs the tent wall in and he's like like breathing. I can like see the canvas moving

back and forth because he's breathing. And so at that point I kind of decided that that lion was my spirit animal because he just kept coming back and I had actually I forgot to mention this detail before he showed up the first time. As a joke, we shaved a mohawk into my head because my hair it was just too damn high. I was like, let's shave my head, and Georgie's like, lot's to a mohawk. First next day, the mohawk lion shows up on the porch. Uh. So, yeah,

that that was a close call. Um, the story of the mohawk lin. Yeah, and uh and that's in in Modern Hunts volume one. That was in volume one. Um, you know there's a couple other a couple, I mean, plenty of lion encounters, plenty of elephant encounters the leopard. One was pretty funny. We were in Zambia and we were, uh, we were hunting the kudo and sable and we, um,

it's noon. We're driving in this land cruiser, no windshield, no roof, no doors, totally open air, and all of a sudden, Lance Lance the pH slams on the brakes and he's like, let chewy, you know, and we all see it and it's trying to dig a word hog out of its hole. It's pretty rare to see a lepar in the middle of the day like that, and so we're like, oh cool, and we're like thirty yards away. So Lance is like, all right, I'm gonna try to get closer and so you can get a good picture.

So he turned sideways and the leopard kind of sneaks away behind this log and it was just watching us from behind the log with his paws up. And uh. I got some video footage of it, but it was kind of boring. It was too far away for it to be good footage. And um, so I was like, I'll take a couple pictures then we can go. So I take two pictures and as I clicked the shutter on the third one. He just comes right for me, and that thing covered twenty yards in two seconds, and

he got about this far away and veered off. So it was a mock charge. And I had a big, you know, seventy two lens. I was just going to try to hit him in the head with it. They they're gonna get you, It's just a matter of how bad. So I I like put my arm around my neck so they can't get your neck. And I was just gonna try to bash him with the lens. But it was a mock charge. So he ran off and I

looked down at Lance and he's sitting there. He didn't reach for the keys, didn't reach for the gun, laughing, and he just turns to me and he goes, did you ship your pants? Mate? Like I'm sitting I'm sitting here, you dude, you tell me? Yeah? Yeah, So there's you know, um, I think I I lived there. I lived in Tanzania for almost three years, you know, And what really got you there? I mean, you know, we kind of gave people the lily pond like sure, but what how did

you get to find yourself there? Yeah? So, um, really I don't know how to describe it other than just destiny. And that might sound contrived, but I was at USC and um it was probably three months before I was about to graduate, and um my dad at the time owned a store in Dallas that did screen printing, an embroidery and all that, and it was next door to a home video edit. It was called You Edit Video. And we were friends with the manager because I used

to run my dad's store. And the owner of the Safari company came in there and uh, I had a bunch of really crappy footage and he's like, I want to make DVDs from my clients and they were like, well, this footage sucks. You should hire somebody who knows what they're doing and get like HD cameras and the guy goes, okay, well let's do that. And my dad happened to be privy to this conversation and just said, hey, well, my son's about to graduate from USC, you should hire him.

And they said okay. So I literally got a call from my dad and he's like, hey, t I, uh I sent you that mail, and you know, we looked at flights and I think I got you a job in tanzan you when you graduate, and and so literally that's how it happened. So I literally when I graduated, I sold a bunch of my stuff, said by to my friends in l A, and moved back to Texas.

You know, did the whole like Cabella z R. I run got all my Safari gear, most of which is totally unnecessary, and went and then had this amazing experience. But when I was there, I learned about Dallas Safari c And so when I came back and side note, the company I worked for at the time, which I will not name, totally screwed me over. Didn't pay me. My visa expired. Um, they never got my work permit. The owner fled the country. So so I'm in the bush in November, right, and I'm like, how am I?

I don't even have a plane taket home. I have like a hundred dollars to my name, and I'm like, how in the US, it's kind of a big deal if your visa expires. And I was like, how am I? You know, I asked one of the guys that the at the office, like what am I? What am I supposed to do? He's like, oh, i'm ana, you just put the money in the passport. I like, you want me to grease the customs officer. He's like, oh yeah, I'm anasta banat visa and I'm so literally to leave

the country. I put a hundred dollar bill over my expired visa, hand it to the guy, opens it up, take some money, outstands my passport, hands it back and I went straight to the bar and get a double whiskey and made it back. And that's when I learned

about Dallas Fry Club. So I went. So this would have been January of two thousand seven was the first time I went to the show and throw together a photo book, UH, throw together a little DVD and just started going around all the outfitters being like, please take me back to Africa. I don't want to live in the world. And UH ended up meeting a guy named

Michelle Montiakas who's a a third generation Tanzanian um. He introduced me to the Knowlton family, which Corey Knowlton, and so I worked for the Knowlton family for almost three years and basically I would follow their UH employees and clients around. Corey was a booking agent. Larry would send a lot of his oil company employees and for those who don't know. Corey was a long time on the Professionals of Gym Shocky and they have the Hunting Consortium. Um. So,

so I've traveled around. I went to almost thirty countries in three years, all over the world. I mean, Pakistan, Russia, Nepal, fourteen countries in Africa and and and so I was actually the original producer on the So like me, Corey and I kind of came up with that concept together. And because the Outdoor Channel was telling Jim that they wanted him to do a second show, so we kind of came up with this idea. And I was like,

this was right when DSLRs first came out. I was like, we need to get a steady caam, we need to get a DSLR and so um. So yeah. I was one of the four original cameramen on The Professionals. And so if you remember that show, there's the Ibex jumping, there's the water buffalo falling, that the bearer running, that's all my footage. Yeah, And it's funny because I saw it. Yet he did a montage and I saw the Ibex show thing, I was like, that's my clip, um and so um yeah, so I did that for a little

while and just got just got burned out. Um, I was traveling. I was gone probably nine ten eleven months out of the year. Couldn't have a relationship, never saw my family. Um, and being a hunting cameraman's hard, it's rough, and it doesn't pay well. Um. I mean I would never trade that because of the riants I got and the places I went in the relationships I formed with

outfitters all over the world. Um. But then I so I came back to Dallas and uh, this was probably two thousand twelve, and UM, just kind of started to pursue more freelance stuff. You know. I I'm an avid writer, and so I started trying to get more editorial work and brand work. So I kind of started to pursue brands like Philson and and Stetson and Cabela's and ended up getting hired by Cabela's and worked with duchan Um

and uh. And that was kind of the shift for me because then I kind of I almost quit photography because I was like, you know, as you know, being an editorial freelancers impossible full time. Yeah, you can't make weddings. I was doing senior portraits. I was doing corporate head shots whatever, right should have you follow up your line story with like a senior portraits story. No, please don't

make me. Um. So I I almost quit, and I was like at the end of my rope, and I just thought to myself, Okay, if I didn't have to worry about money and I could just do the kind of photography I want to do, what would it be. And that's you know, kind of what we're doing now, right, Sporting life documentary, Uh, you know, conservation storytelling, um, outdoor adventure. You know, my mom's from Nacona, Texas, which is a pretty famous like Western history cowboy tant Nacona Boots and

Justin Boots are all from there. So I've done a lot of stuff with Texas Parks and I'm sorry Texas Historical Commission. Um. And so I just kind of said, all right, you know what from now and I'm not gonna take anything that's not this stuff. And UM, I managed to land a gig with Garden Gun and started doing some work with them, and worked with Cubby Rise

for a while. UM, and then just through this entire process, right, especially because Texas is a pretty hunting friendly state, that's right, right. But when I would come back from Africa, people would have these emotional reactions because they just for whatever reason, they've got an emotional testment to these animals, or they've heard something online. And so I kind of had these

two realizations. One that the hunting industry does an absolute terrible job of communicating with non hunters about why it matters about its rolling conservation um. And then the second part of that realization was that most non hunters are either not educated or directly misinformed about hunting's rolling conservation. And so, uh, that combined with my experience with other magazines and how I felt like things could be done

better UM. Highlighting the contributors a lot more, you know, promoting things online UM is kind of what led to starting modern huntsmen, I think. And when people see when you're expressly say things like that, and I've said these things before. Here's the problems I see with hunting, right, and the messaging. I don't have any problem with the

act of hunting, but the messaging being a problem. I think people there's some people that are immediately turned off, WHOA sure, well, don't tell me what's wrong with what I got going on. So there's a there's a there's a fine line to walk there. I think we try to walk it because we love it so much. You want it to be um beneficial for society and you want people that don't do it to understand it. There's

pressure there to do that. So with modern husband like, however, you try to walk that line because it is a it's a it's a thin one. It's difficult. Um, you know, I think we can all agree that hunting is in

a hole. And it wasn't you and me that dug the hall, right, So that's a hard conversation to have, right, And and I feel like we're in a really difficult position because I've intentionally positioned modern huntsman on the periphery of the hunting industry, because if we are perceived as deep within the belly of that, we will not be able to accomplish our goal, which is too communicate with people who don't hunt and improve their viewpoint of what

we do, right, which makes it hard because the hunting industry is so UM, I don't I don't want to say, you know, I don't. I don't know how to say this, but uh, they stick to their own right and I think you could agree with the story I just told, like, I've I've earned my chops, right, I've I've seen and been and done the hunting industry, and so I understand it, and I know that there's a lot of really good people who are really dedicated to trying to keep it

moving forward, to keep it alive, to grow our numbers. However, the tone that's being used and the methods they're trying to communicate aren't working, and it's a it's an us versus them, and I you know, I wrote about this in my editor's letter, like it can't be us versus them anymore. It's got to be all of us, both sides together against all of the conservation issues that we face. I think, and I think there's some there's some difficulties

in all this. And one of the main difficulties is how you just articulated like wanting to kind of position off away from the core, but then use in terms like we and like we who what's we? You know? What's that collective? Really? Because it's it's hard to define if you feel like, well, these people don't represent me, I need to represent something different than them or the way that they've done in the past, or at least

like a sea change a bit in the messaging. It's hard to come to bring that all together, right, I mean, that's that's that's extremely difficult. Like pulling the core hunting community that's kind of stuck in their ways or maybe cause this problem that you perceive towards your thing. That's that's hard. I think we've all found it to be hard thinking that, you know, thinking is that better falling apart because I can't. You can't. You can hear me.

If you can't, we're recording. There's something going on with this piece of machinery. You can hear me. Yeah, let me see is this this is mine? Here? It goes back and forth. Yeah, I wonder that is if it's connection. Just trying to check with it. Uh yeah, I mean I I've used this metaphor before, and uh I haven't. I haven't been blasted for it yet, So just keep

going with it. Um. You know, it's like you have a grandpa who's kind of hands e right, and you're at the birthday party and Grandpa maybe like grabbed your girlfriend. You're like, Grandpa, you cause some problems and we love you and you're a good guy, But just you need to sit in this chair for the rest of the party. And there'll be a time when you can come back, but for right now, we've got to fix this, right And so Grandpa, right, that's not a specific person, that's

not a specific organization. That's let's call it the old mentality, right, the let's let's articulate that, like what's the old well, well, articulately the old mentality, as you see, and then what modern hunts from represents. Sure, so I think that the old mentality in let's say the nineties, right, Um, there wasn't social media, right, and and there wasn't the global uh spread of information in a second, right, and so there was this kind of combative language that was going on,

right the US first, the antis kind of thing. Well, the antis aren't it's not as descript anymore. It is now because they've they're smart, they've mobilized, they've created media conglomerates. So now it's not just that organization versus this organization. It's whatever they want to say goes to the entire world. And they are much better at social media and and and media. I mean, like Cecil the Lion, Nobody in Africa knew who sees the lion was Nope, nope, that

was he was not a celebrity. But they were brilliant in their marketing and they came up with a campaign and they accomplished their goal. Right. And as a result, lion importation and elephant importation United States has been banned, which has had drastic effects on the on the African conservation. Tanzania has lost over fifty of its hunting blocks because people can't afford to manage it anymore. So I think that when I go, I'm gonna go back to the

US versus them thing. It can't be a fight anymore. It's okay, let me change that. It has to be a fight, but we gotta fight differently, right, It's got to be a constructive conversation. It can't be rock throwing anymore because's not working. It's it's factly, I think it's

getting worse if that's the path we continue down. And so um, it's a difficult conversation, right because these are these are people that I've worked with and respect and uh and and and it's it's hard in the same in any relationship, right to say, hey, listen, I feel like you're screwed up, right, and and and communicating that to someone in a way that's respectful, that doesn't um get their defenses up, because that's the key in anything, right,

So and and and I think that's the difference with modern hunts and where we are, how we are. It's working.

We're having conversations with non hunters, with vegans, with vegetarians, with brands like Patagonia, because we're doing it in a different way that I don't know if I want to say it's more respectful, but it's in a tone that isn't getting their defenses up, and and is making it more possible for us to actually have a conversation and point out the material in an educational way rather than a defensive way, because if it gets defensive, no one listens. Yeah,

is there do you feel like? I think specific when we talk about the messaging, there's no way to get around. It's annoying to me, and I'm sure annoying to you to continue to talk about trophy hunting scandals because some person took a picture with some animal that somebody didn't like.

It's it's getting to be real old, but it's still when you hear about hunting in the media effect, Uh, maybe what it was CBS just ran a thing about trophy hunting and had you know, it is the trophy hunting versus conservation, right, and that continually is a messaging and people like said, people that live in Chicago, they might of New York, this is the only thing they see. And so how do you change that part? Is there a way to change that part? Because that's we just

gotta change the word. Yeah, So in Namibia, So Byron and I were just over in Namibia speaking on a journalism symposium in a room full of mostly non hunters talking about African hunting, which was super interesting. However, Namibia has deliberately changed their term to conservation hunting. It's no longer trophy hunting, and just that right there, right, because when people hear trophy and we could we could spend

all the time in the world trying to describe someone. Okay, well, trophy technically means memento, right, and so if you are trying to harvest an old, the oldest, biggest bull you can, that's one of the best things you can actually do for the herd dynamics, right, But that's not what people think they think you're just going for the big antlers.

And some people are right, and that's fine, right, but we have to be cognizant of the fact that we live in a world where stuff gets spread all over the world immediately, and then there are a lot of people who are going to take that and misappropriate it and use it to their own gains for whatever financial you know, initiatives they have. Uh. And so do I think that people should be able to post their trophy photos because they they they're proud of it. Yeah, I

think they do. However, that's not the reality of the world we live in. And so I think that if you truly care about the future of hunting, right, you have to at least be aware of the consequences of doing something like that. And it can't be this and this is part of the old mentality like oh screw this, I'm going down with the ship. We don't want the ship to go down. We would like the ship to

stay afloat. And that's what I'm devoted to. And uh, we're gonna get chastised for it and criticized for it because we're not saying the same things. And I would like to. I have to you know, we have ties and alliances within the hunting industry, but it's not the majority I'm having to gain that and and and it's not a short conversation, right, It's something that takes uh sitting down and me being able to explain the chess

game that we're playing. Yeah, And I think give people a few examples of you don't have the name names, like times you've been challenged. Um, well I think that you know, for for instance, me personally, right, Um, someone goes to my Instagram account and there's not pictures of dead animals on there, right, And so I've been accused or criticized for not being a real hunter, right or

being hardcore whatever you wanna call it. But that's a choice, right because if I put that, there's a way to do that, right, Um, But if I don't do it the right way, then it's going to unravel all the work we've done. So Um. As a as an individual, I see myself as a diplomat, right, I see myself as as an ambassador for what I believe to be our you know, the virtues of hunting. And and I can't sit here and give you a list of like, Okay,

this is right. This is wrong because as you know, it's incredibly nuanced and there's a lot of gray area. But in the same way that we could both agree that honesty and integrity and loyalty and bravery are all virtues, right, they represent a moral center. That's what we're trying to promote in this book is the people and the places and the situations and the organizations that represent what we

feel to be are, you know, virtues of hunting? Presenting that in a visual format that could be could win a design Design awards um and that allows access and uh, you know, engagement from people who aren't part of the hunting industry. So would you say that, like, I'm looking at the volume three cover, it's a beautiful photo of a hunter. What's it? The water buffalo water buffalo arhem lands in Australia. It's a beautiful photo. Would you say

this represents like your proposed new way of thinking? And then if you were to look at another magazine with a dude sitting behind a big giant buck, and that's like the older way. There's plenty of magazines that we can call to we won't call him out, but this is like there's that and there's this well how do you see those two things? Right? I don't want to call it a new way of thinking because it's not

a new way of thinking. Right. There's been people throughout history who have tried to do things what they feel to be is that's your way of this version of let's let's call it a m you know, a different philosophy, right, one that's focused on I hate to use the word inclusiveness. That's kind of a buzzword. But uh, we're talking to a different audience than so the I'll give you, I will give you that because examples in volume three, Max low is in here. Yeah, a lot of people listeners

won't know who Max Lowe is. Max low is in the outdoor recreation industry is like a rising star. Yeah, climber his I would say, Stepdad is Conrad or Conrad anchor. So this is a person that isn't traditionally involved in what we do anything with hunting. Right. He tells and he tells the story to hear about some of that. But there's also guys like Jason Matt Singer in here who is core hunting um and guys like Charles Post

who isn't Jesse Griffin is probably not. So there's just a lot of different perspectives here, and I'll give you that.

I think that's that's in the work is reflected and I think that the difference right with a magazine with a big buck on the cover with the guy sitting behind it, that's that's speaking to a specific audience, right, There's there's people who that's what they want to see, Like they know how to score that deer, they probably know where it was, and and that's uh, it's a specialized thing, right, And so we're not talking about a specialized thing. We're talking about engaged ng with a non

hunting public. And I'm doing my best to maintain credibility in the hunting industry that we do have a balance

of people who are legitimate hunters. Um. But at the same time, you know, I think that, like we were talking about earlier, we're not when I say we the hunting industry are not going to survive if we don't allow other people who aren't considered core hunters into the space, because that number is dwindling and things are changing, number of populations are growing, humans are screwing everything up, right,

And so I think that Um. You know, a lot of the crossover we've had has been with the outdoor industry, guys like Chris Burk Card, guys like Ben Moon and Josh Murphy who are award winning filmmakers who do a lot of work with Patagonia, and and and every issue has been a progression, and we're now having conversations. Our next issue is a women's issue, and it's it's all. Every story is gonna be focused on women and hunting and conservation and you know, calling area and arts and

all that. And that is a really great access point for some of these outdoor brands who now see the rising interest in the female population or people. You know, we had a quote from Ivan and Um in the second issue that was like, people aren't just hunters anymore. Their hikers and their climbers and their surfers and their hunters Pagonies. Yeah, I mean you're right, and I do feel I will say, I want to let let you talk about your thing here. I think it's just it's

interesting and important. But I do agree with you. I feel I feel that as a community, we know we've got to grow. Everybody would agree with that, right, How we do it the way in which we message is something we can talk about all day. But I feel very strongly that if we if as a community, not everyone does this, but there are certain factions that do.

If we're going to push out people that think differently and look differently and act differently, if we're going to like typify a hunter and if you don't live up to that that thing, if we're gonna push you out or or downgrade your status in the hunting industry to do things like that, the people, then we're not going to grow. We're never going to have the chance to expand the way we think, expand the way UM other folks think about us. Like we're never going to build

a bridge ever. And so regardless of how of who's on either side of the bridge, if we can't bring someone in and say, okay, you're not you're in brand new hunter. You may be legit in this field, but you're not legit. Come over, let's teach you, let's learn from you, exactly Like, if you can't do that, you're never gonna nothing's ever gonna happen. So I do agree with that, but it's a it's an opportunity, you know. I think that that um a lot of people who

are experienced hunters, and especially out in the West, you know. Uh, I would say in a sense, they're kind of xenophobic, right, they don't Montana is full go home, right, which you know, you don't want gentrification, you don't want massive development all that.

But if someone's there right with a California plate and they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, that's an opportunity to engage with them and maybe teach them the right way, right, rather than have a confrontational experience that's going to make them feel unwelcome or turned off from now be you know, growing their interests in hunting and fishing, you know. And I think that that's a really important thing to do.

And it's hard, right because and I wrote about this in the editor's letter that in a way modern huntsman is meant to be a mirror that's forcing us in the hunting industry to think about the what the things we say and the things we do. And we're not gonna like some of that, right and and so I would my hope is that we are not blamed as the mirror, the mirror instrument of reflection by viewing something unpleasant about the way things are versus the way they

should be. And so I think that, you know, in the spirit of self improvement, I would hope that over time that these things can move forward and that this can be easier and and you've got let's let's think about you know, Dallas a Frai Club and sci right at these shows. Think about a non hunter walking into

those shows. They're like, what is this? You know, and I would like to see And this is a conversation I'm having with Corey at Dallas a Frai Club, is that even if it's a small section that that is presented differently, that it's maybe it's a gallery of some of this work, or it's you know, some films, or it's uh, some chefs, or it's something that's not just you know, the traditional convention center with a bunch of blown up to animals all over it with you know,

that that's what it's about. That the current because that currency is big horns, uh and and big hunts, and that currency needs to shift a little bit, right so that it's more about the experience. Because I think we could all agree, at least you and mean, I don't know about everybody, and that's fine if you want if you're just out for the score, But I don't hunt for that like I hunt for the experience, and that is that that is the way that we get other

people involved, because that's what you're looking for. Yeah, like I I feel let me I'll play devil's advocate for a minute because it's always fun to I wouldn't expect anything to go there. That's me. I'm the devil's advocate. But I really I would say one in this conversation, I want to let you just say what modern huntsman is and get that out there. How's having a conversation. I'm going next week to Berkeley, California. I'm going to

go to the Berkeley Animal Rights Center. I'm gonna have a conversation with some uh animal rights activists and then talking to them, I said, specifically about trophy hunting, what is it that you what is it that gets you about it? It's like, because you're talking about the motivation

of the individual, you're not talking about the benefit. Because if you're looking at the benefit of trophy hunting for African game and conservancies and when they were created, and the fact that there's more more game than ever, and it's more valuable than ever for the people that live there. It's kind of you can't really argue that when you really, when you look at the facts, you can't. It's hard

to argue. But if let's just say, if there's a small amount of people in this case, and indeed those those shows kind of typify or signify what that really is. Small amount of people with a lot of money who think a certain way, right, those you would never set up a stable conservation system in that way. A very small amount of people with a lot of funding that desire to go to a place that they that they

may or may not care about. It's not required to them to care about the economic or social and economic economic issues in Africa or any one country, or the wildlife populations in the place where they go. It's required of them to pay the money and get on a plane and go do their things. So we've not analyzed their motivations, which makes that relationship unstable, right, it's an

unstable relationship. You're relying on that small room of people that walk around a d s C or s c I and fund but it's a very important conservation initiative. So I think that I just think from a from a pragmatic level, from a even from a devil's avoca level, that's unstable. So you have that point, and then you have what's motivating that small group of people to go over there to kill those animals, because I don't think I don't think anti hunters or non hunters would have

a problem if that motivation was removed. If those people were flying over there, they happen to kill a couple of animals and eat them. But they were given that money to you know, a conservation organization, to a small government, or to some individual or group of people that could better the mission, and so it for for most folks, I think it falls apart with that motivation. So it's

hard to separate the motivation from the end result. Yeah, and I think that, um, that's something we're actually talking a lot about. Uh to boil volume three down to the you know, when I say it stated in like a one statement, it's there's a lot of amazing animals in the world, and for one circumstance or another, a lot of them have to die. Yeah, and thankfully they there are a lot of systems in place that make

sure that that is done. Responsibly, sustainably and financially. Financially sensibly, I don't know if you're gonna use two in a row, but yeah, so in that sense, right, the conversation I've always had about Africa, right, because I've filmed again are gamut. Right. Some guys save their whole life to go on a buffalo and like cried the first time they shot a buff with their four seventy double rifle, which was amazing, Right. And then I've got guys who just couldn't care less.

This is their twenties safari, right, And just like with any job, you keep your mouth shut, right, you bite your tongue and you say, you know what, this guy doesn't uphold what I feel to be are the virtues of hunting. And I feel like somebody should appreciate what they're being able to do right here, but they don't write. Thankfully, the system is in place where the money they're paying is going to the people who do care and are helping that continue. Um. But that's something that we're trying

to do, is show that there's a difference. Right there are the people who don't give a ship, They just want to kill, right, But that's not most of us. And so I think that creating that distinction for the public, right, because when they when someone looks online and they see sensationalized Facebook posts or some you know, you know, main media slander, they lump hunters all into that category, and that's the narrative. Let's bring no, no, no, it is

the mainstream. However you would define mainstream, that's the narrative base push, And it's often like push the narrative to the point now where there there's enough people questioning, okay, well what's the counter narrative? Right that even when you when you watch the New CBS thing or any of any of the documentaries, you find people embracing the counter narrative enough at least to address it exactly and set

up the two different sides. So I think that that's really the point is to show that, look this, there's more than that, right, uh. And and to do that requires a little bit of separation from that right and so, um, you know, not to say that one's holier than thou, right, but it's one of those things where um, I find I found myself being held accountable for someone else's actions. And I don't really think that's you can't say it's

fair because that doesn't matter. But you know what I mean, I'm trying to do something about it, right, to show that there are other people in this world who do things differently. And yeah, those guys are assholes, right, Maybe the one guy is a dick, but you know what, he does pay a lot of money and that money goes to the right places. So we can accept the bad behavior of Grandpa, you know, and and he can he can still hang out. But we just need to

know that, like, we have our differences. And I would hope over time that um, that the support of some of the and you know, I worked for a lot of um of of guys who are you know, Texas um kind of oil barrens, right, And there's some of the nicest, most humble people I've ever met my entire life. Um, but they're they're old school, right, and they're super conservative and so and I'm I'm not a Democrat or a

liberal by any means. I saw my entire life in Texas, but so I try to stay middle of the road. It's my job now to be an observer and understand both sides and try to find a solution, not a solution,

but at least progress towards a solution. And so the conversations I'm having with guys, you know, like like Larry or some of my former clients, is listen, we're all going the same direction, right, we all have the same goal, but the road that we've been on before isn't working, and so we were trying to go on a different road. And more than anything, we just need your help, right, and we need you to understand that this is not some infiltration, you know, greeny, you know, whatever you wanna

call it. This is it's a psychology move, it's a it's a chess move, and we need the backing. So you know, those are conversations I'm having with leadership some of these organizations is we need we need meat eater, we need you know, b h A, we need all of those, but we also need this too, because when you look at the spectrum, we've got to cover more than just the ground we're currently covering. And so that's

that's what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I mean, when you have those conversations with folks in those positions, because I think I've probably made a mistake in the past of condemning those entire organizations when I go. Now, when I go, I think Wild Cheap does a pretty good job of They've done a pretty good job. Great Thorte

and crew have done it. You know what I would would would say is a great job of understanding what's going on and trying to go to their show, and you really feel that they're they're making an effort to kind of see both sides of that, see how it was, how it needs to be, and really put that all together in one thing. What's the conversation with folks that like Fari Club or Dallas Fari Club? Do they see it when you talk to do they recognize it? Are they are they worried? Or or there is an insular

seeing it more? Right? Um? Because I mean it's a tune in seventy two page book. It's not something to be like, hey read this Pamplint real quick, right, and it's it's pretty in depth. Um. You know, I think that the hunting industry or a lot of these organizations, right, however good our intentions might be, in most cases, it's a room full of members of the same club, all agreeing with each other, and when that conversation goes outside of the room two people that aren't part of that club.

A lot of times it ceases to be productive because the communication is broke down, right. And so in the same way that you know, you can think about a PR campaign or communication strategy or a style guide, that's what we're trying to do is create a new method of communication, uh of of visual representation that is still is accomplishing the same goals. But again is is we're

trying to go around it. So when they see that, they're not thinking about Cecil the lion, even though we're going to talk about it and we're going to hit

him with the truth, you know. So I think that that's no matter what it is, right, um, because so much of the messaging of these organizations is is in interior, right, it's two other hunters, it's it's this or that which is important, right, because there's a lot of hunters who you know, could perhaps stand to to learn more about you know, public land or do more than just pay

the Pittman robertson tax right or get involved. Right. That's all stuff that's good, um, But like, like we all agree that those numbers are going down, So where's that going to come from? And I personally believe it's going to come from outside and the only way to accomplish that is to communicate in a different way. Yeah. Do you feel like, all right, I'm sure I'm guilty of

this is something level too. Do you feel like you talk so much about it and you think so much about it, and you think about and like you said, it's not a new way, but it's just like your way articulating what hunting is or what it could be or it's really it's value proposition for society, which I think what we're talking about anyway, Like is it valuable for society? Yes? Or no? That's what everybody wants to know.

It's hunting. We're in a different spot and we have human linkage like all the way going back to when we were hominids to to this activity. So there's no arguing that. But in the modern sense, our length, the links in the chain are starting to get get broken. Yeah, So is there is there a version of this where you're worried about pulling the wool over people's eyes, like, hey, this is how it really is, right, modern huntsman, is

how it really is. But people can can the people that I don't agree with can remain under the cover of what I've created to do the things they want to do, and not I. I do not in any way believe that this is, you know, hardline, this is the way it should be, right. I think that what I'm what what we're trying to do is we're not trying to be the experts. I'm not. I mean, I spent a lot of time in Africa, right, so I have a lot of experience that has given me knowledge.

But I'm not an expert, and I don't know you're pretty your expertise is pretty bona fied, Okay, but we're not talking about but I'm not a researcher. I don't live there, even though I have and there are Basically, if we were going to get put on the spot, I would not I would get somebody else who knows more than me there, right, and so on all of

these topics and all these issues. I'm trying to bring together a diverse array of perspectives that present what I feel to be constructive conversations, right, to show some diversity, to talk about it in a different way. Um. And it's not that I think that like this is the way it should be Charles always says the term best and could be better practices. Right, These are people that we feel like are doing really good work. Right, doesn't

mean that somebody else is bad. And we're not trying to point fingers slap risk, but showing good examples that we feel good about promoting, right, And uh, you know, it's it's it's one of those things that it's it's going to be ever changing, right because the whole hunting is conservation thing right now, it is right, hunting pays for whatever. You know, what's the person that's gonna go down,

you know, and so what's the alternative? Right? The alternative has got to be across collaboration with non hunting organizations, right. I mean in Africa the perfect example. I was just in Namibia and there's um, you know there there's these community based conservancies, right where a village gets to decide, they participate in the census, they get to decide who gets to hunt. They they vet the outfitter. Uh, they get community hunting privileges, they get the meat, they get

the money, they decide how to use the money. Right, they're managing their own wildlife resources. But these areas bump up against photographics so far areas right, and in most cases the photographic lodges were paid for by the community conservancy. So they're now having to have these difficult because these photographic clients come in they're like, oh, this is bullshit. I can't believe you would allow people to murder these animals,

Like well, first of all, murder means human. Second of all, this was paid for by that And so those conversations are helping them, you know, in and that allows them to hire more scouts, right, more anti poaching. Now the farmers are invested in protecting the wildlife rather than scaring them off with a pitchfork because they smashed their crops. And so that mixture, right of of non hunting and hunting is that's the only way I I feel like,

I don't know what that mixture looks like. But the conversations are starting now, and and those are conversations we were having in Africa, um and and it's something that actually we're probably gonna do a story on. Is is plant someone in these lodges an interview photographic Safari people as they come through, like, Hey, how do you feel about the fact that this place was funded by community

based hunting. You know, that's what I mean. Yeah, that's That's where I'm at two, And I wonder there's a lot of things where this manifests itself. The point that I'm making about wanting to say, this is the way I think about hunting. You should love hunting the way I love it. And then people come walking into, you know, the tent in which we've invited them to come into, and they look around there, Wait a minute, what's that over there? Like, well, that's kind of that's Grandpaul, he's

over there. And so that's manifests itself in a lot of things. We say harvest not kill. We like, we've watered down some of the things in an effort to better message, but we've also watered down the realities. So how do you balance that? Because I will do that all the time, But so how do you use this example before? Too? So think about if you're talking to your wife right and you're maybe you're feeling in the mood there's a friends and saying I would like to

make love or I would like to screw. That's true, okay, So think of it that way. The choice of words and the tone that those words inject and that's kind of the whole basis of this is do we need to apologize? No? Do we need to change our lifestyles? And in most cases no, do we need to change the way that we present ourselves and the way that we communicate with people who aren't in the hunt in industry? Yeah, absolutely, in a major way, or it's going to get worse.

And and so I think that, um, you know, that's that's kind of what it is. And and it's uh. And instead of saying, Okay, we're backed up against the ropes, we're gonna start swinging. Just get out of the ring for a second, be like, you know what, let's have a beer, Let's take a break. I'm not good at boxing anyway. So which isn't true, by the way, Yeah, you're telling me not. I think it's it's it's one

people who know me will know. It's a willingness to have the conversation, like the strength of conviction to know, like, I love this thing. I want to I want to have every single conversation I could possibly have to make it better. I want to show that in my actions. I would show that in my creative work, which which is um, which which is what modern huntsman is But like, continue to believe that this is good, believe that it needs better pr and believe that I, me, you, whomever

can be a part of that change. Is that change gonna is there gonna be some spasmatic pushback from any change or any kind of like stated purpose like that. Of course there's going to be. UM, but I think there's You've been tested. I've been tethering. People will test you. Do you really believe this? How much do you believe this? How much are you willing to stand by the thing that you said that's controversial with the thing that you said that not everyone agrees with. Um, it's tough. You

talk about being close to brands. I'm close to brands. We have people that help fund what we do or part of what we do, and it's hard to challenge cultural norms in that in that over branded environment. Yeah, And and I want to clarify, I don't I don't mean that every single person needs to do this. I think that, uh, that there are always going to be you know, individuals who choose to be the mouthpiece or the vagabonds or whatever it is. That this isn't like, oh,

everybody needs to become better. It's more about an awareness of the need for it. Right. And I know that not everybody is gonna agree with what I say or that is going to support modern huntsmen. And it doesn't matter what I say or what I do. There's gonna be some people who just hardline in the sand against

it for whatever reason, and that's fine. I would just hope that they would have the ability to understand what we're trying to accomplish, and in the same way that the diplomats and conservationists and statesmen before us had a sense of of classy competition, you know, to just I couldn't respectfully disagree, right instead of drag it through the mud or or debase it for for some reason that isn't true. Um, And that's still gonna happen, right, Um.

But you know, situations like this to be able to, for the first time ever, actually talk about this with you, um, about what what it? Why? Yeah? I mean, and I'm it's like I always beat this drum a lot. But I feel like the reason that that this is interesting to me, and the reason hunting and supporting ethics are interesting to me, and the reason that conservation other than it's tangible benefits. Is interesting to me is because as

a practice, it's always shifting and moving and growing. Ecology is that way. Ecosystems are that way. The outside world is that way, always moving, shifting, growing, changing. You always have to react to what's happening. You can't always manage wildlife in the way that you've always managed wildlife, and you can't always talk about hunting the way you've always talked about hunting and then and you can't always practice ethical boundary like place your ethical boundaries in the same places.

You have to move and shift them around based on you know, your personal experiences in your situation. So that's why they're there. Is it's endlessly interesting to me. It may it may never come to a conclusion, likely will never, but that's the that's that's what hunting is, honey. Is this this tangible activity that is always moving and always changed within who we are, what we do, our humanity. For Christ's sakes. That may be overstating it, I mean

it is. That's how I feel about it. Yeah, Well, and it's funny because I I always I had this realization. I think it was maybe two thousand and eight, two thousand nine. I had just come back from Pakistan where where we were it was a shock game. We were filming the Ibex Hunt up there, and UM we stayed.

I stayed for an additional three weeks. I'm gonna tell a site story and I'll come back to that with Corey's brother Buck Milton, who side note leak got noodling legalized in the state of Texas, and we stayed in Pakistan for another three weeks. One of the most to play amazing places I've ever been. Um. And we we had a little guide who took us around and saw museums and went hunting, and we had grown beards out and we were wearing the Shalwar kimies just to try

to blend in a little bit. And Um we were in Lahore, which is I believe, the capital, and um Brady and I will Buck and I were driving around and we were in like a Toyota cambri So and it was clean and it wasn't dented up, so it's a pretty nice car for their and this guide is driving us and we're going down this road and there's like donkeys jumping on cars and just madness, and this cop car just comes screaming up next to us, runs us off the road, screaming pointed to get out of

the car, aims his gun at my head, you know, shouting at me and Urdu and u and we uh, we had no idea what was going on. And uh it turns out there had been a terrorist attack. And I fit the description of one of the terrorists. Remember that famous national geographic picture of the girl, the Afghani girl, She's Patan, which is a re in Pakistan. Um. That just so happened that these gunmen were from there, and so I literally it was a green eyed, dark haired,

got light skinned guy. So I almost got gunned down on the side of the road in Pakistan and um and and after that, you know, we showed them our passports are like, oh hey, oh friendly at this point. So uh. And then I went home and I when I would try to tell this story, or actually I don't even think I ever told my mom that's that story. But when I try to tell any story or have a conversation, I think about my small town Texas mother.

How do I tell the story in a way that she will take something away from it right, that she can understand it, that can't be so in the weeds and and you know, jargon and big words and and based on individual experience only that it's got to be something that you know. And I and I need to I say this every time. I need to look up whose quote this actually was. But it was one of the classics, right, Galileo, Aristotle, somebody, somebody real, and they said,

what good is wisdom if the common man can't understand it? Right? And so I think that's kind of the goal, is to present what are otherwise perceived to be pretty controversial or complex topics in a way that not only the common person can understand from a storytelling point, but also somebody who has zero access, were very limited access to a background in hunting, you know, the way of a segment on the show called Damn Near Died. I was gonna ask you later on about it, but I feel

like you've given yeah, like three of them. I've there's been a lot. Actually there was one that happened two days ago. Okay, this this one's gonna be sponsored by federal premium. You possibly apply to the other three with this one, we're going to controversial. It's sponsored by federal premium.

But we'll see, so they'll like. I was in Yellowstone and I was fishing with a buddy, UM on Sunday, so a couple of days ago, and he left, he went back to Bozeman, and I was taking my time, UM, coming up from the West Entrance, up towards Gardner and past the Norris geyser basins, and UM, I wanted to stop somewhere and just kind of get out and enjoy myself. So I stopped. I saw this like nondescript pull out with no trail head pulled out and I could see

some steam coming from down there. I was like, oh, it's kind of cool. I've never been down the I'm gonna go check it out. So I get my binos, get the bear spray, get some water, go down there, and UM, it's this really cool, open, scalded white area with steam coming up everywhere. And I was like, I don't want to fall into a volcano. I'm gonna stay close to the tree line. So I follow the tree line. I go down there for twenty minutes, thirty minutes, kind

of explore, find this huge pool that's like spring fed. Like, okay, I should probably start going back, So I come back and in the same way that you can sense when a lion is close, Like, all of a sudden, I could feel that there was a bear like right there, and I froze and like grab the bear spray and hurt them right And I kind of started to sneak towards the direction I thought was the opposite way, and then I see another pair of tracks right there, and I go a little bit further and I see two

more pairs of tracks. There was four bears. And I was like, well, you know, I mean, I just got goose bumps again, and uh, and I was, you know, on high alert. I started kind of kicking rocks and trying to make a little bit of noise um and just I didn't run, but just started to briskly move towards my truck. And I get up the hill and I get back to my truck and this park ranger comes driving up slams on his breaks, like, oh my god, is this your tacoma? I was like yeah. He's like,

thank God, you're alive. I'm like, what are you talking about. He's like, we just chased this super aggressive female and her three cubs off the road down to exactly where you were and so probably with him thirty seconds this like piste off female and her three cubs came running through there and I missed the tracks by like this much. Yeah, they would have just kept running with you in the in their mouth probably, and so he was and then he kind of made light of it, you know, but yeah,

pretty much and your body. So yeah, that was a that was an exciting end to the Yellowstone Trip on Sunday. Well good, you got but like four damn near dies in one podcast. Then we've there's more if you need him sometimes yeah, well maybe yeah, maybe I'll have you called others like seed danger ship that you've done to them. But yeah, I mean I think all this man, all this conversation for me, I can I can get repetitive

for me. So it's nice to have you come here and just kind of explain what your mission is, what the purpose of Moner huntsman is, and your your vision for it. Because I've been I've been in journalism for you know, to eleven years something like that. Um, I think every print writer, every creative that puts together media would take a look at modern hunts and be like this is good, Like it's it's good for a lot of reasons. It's quality paper, it's good photography, it's all

thought out. It's a diverse um and and not only in its subject matter, but in its personalities and then the characters within it. So you know, that's what I think, and I thought that since the beginning, and so kudos for that. I think it stands out in that way above a lot of things that are done in its own way. So and it's and it's got its own personality, like it's got its own function within the world. It's

clear to me. Um, So thanks for that. I think there's no bad effort, there's no there's it's a net positive no matter how it chakes out well, you know, and it's one of those things where we're gonna stumble or and it you know how high the stakes are, right, So it's so difficult to move forward in you know, the way that you feel like it's the right way, because if you say the wrong thing, you do the wrong thing a lot of times, a lot of cases, you can't take it back right or it could be

the end. And uh, and so it is, you know, the stakes feel very high. And uh. And I remember trying to explain to my mom, and she was like, Tyler, She's like, it sounds like you're just having head first into controversy. Your mom's your mom's Texas was like pretty pretty much. Actually your thank you for pointing that out. What's wrong with you? Tyler? Come on? Actually, side note,

My first name is actually William. I go by William Tyler, and which was a pain in the ass growing up because you you know, you get called in elementary school and they're like WILLIAMS Sharpe. I'd have to say here, but I go by Tyler and then all the kids

make fun of you. Straight up. I asked her about five years ago, why did you name me William Tyler and decided to go by my middle name, and her straight answer she goes, well, I nine you William Tyler because I hope when you grew up we call you Billy T. So if modern Huntsman crashes and burns and I failed, you see this, I'm going to become an outlaw country singer named Billy. So look out, we look at release. Look actually, please don't look out, because that

would be a bad sign, would be terrible. Yeah, I want to look at some of the people that are in volume three Wins Volume three come out, so it should be shipping hopefully next week. By the time you hear this will be out in the world. So um go go pick it up. You got this is this is to to your credit. You have due perfect people tell people who do perfect. So they are five just friends from Texas who started making trick shot videos in

their backyard. And I didn't know this, but the first YouTube video they ever posted, Good Morning America called them the next day and since then they have become They fluctuated between number one and number two YouTube channel in the world. They got a show on like what Nickelodeon they did, They have a partnership with bass pro and all that. But I think they have about forty million. I'm sure it's more by the time we've done the interview.

But they're big hunters and so they have struggled with being able to communicate about their hunting. They they realized that dude perfects that channel. People aren't going to that channel to learn about hunting, but on their personal social media. Um. So it was a cool conversation to hear about. You know, what their plans are and what ways they see being able to use their platform to help further this mission. And and and they're, you know, very much aware of

the importance of tone and in their own content. So yeah, and they do. They're all texts boys, or at least some of them are, right. Yeah, no, I think they all are. You have our buddy Jesse Griffiths in here. Yeah. Yeah, Jesse's great, and it was cool to give him a platform to talk about his hog obsession and he's talked about it on this podcast. Yeah. I could listen to him talk about Yea, he has a forthcoming. Uh, it's like a cookbook. It's like it's a second So it's

a sequel to a Field and I think it. I don't know if it has the same name, but it's much more focused on Hawks. That's all I told. He explained it to me. This is I'm doing a book about Farrell Hawks. Yeah, which is awesome. I am. You have Simon Roosevelt, Yeah, yeah, talk about I don't think a lot of people know who Simon is. Talking about

your relations he's kind of a dark course. Um So, Simon is the great great grandson of tr And I met Simon at Dal Safari Club probably five years ago, and um I remember he was he's working on a book currently. I believe Andy Anderson shooting the book, and it's about hunting's role in conservation in North America broken into different regions and uh and and I was having a conversation with him at Michelle Montiaka's booth, my friend

from Tanzania. I had no idea who he was. I was like, oh, well, I'd love to contribute to the book if you're looking traditional photos. And he's like, yeah, yeah. He gave me his card and walked away. And I look at the card and it says from the office of Simon Roosevelt and Alison Rockefeller. And I was like, holy shit. And I look over and Michelle is like, you have some luck, my friend. So anyways, I ended up going on a couple hunts with him, photographing, and

this was way before we launched Modern Huntsman. So from the beginning he's been my main advisor and uh in terms of understanding the landscape and the history. And Simon, you know, is old enough that he's you know, been part of that, but he thinks much more progressively. And so when he saw what we were doing, he said, I really believe that this is something that could work. I would like to do whatever I can to help you.

And so he's been very instrumental in helping me introduce introduced me to people, but then also give me feedback often which is very harsh about you know, what we're doing. And so um, yeah, he's been invaluable. And uh, you know he he wrote a pretty strong piece in this one. He goes for the throat. I mean, he he goes into the long range and the can hunting and all of that. I mean he does, he throws down. It's called defining modern hunting. So we'll look forward to that.

And yeah, when you get in there, that's awesome. Man. Yeah, Like I said, you have guys like Max Low in here. I think that's a huge deal. Chris Burkhard and here explain who Chris is. Chris. Yeah, Chris is a pretty famous or prolific outdoor photographer. Does a lot of work for you know, surf surf brands and and ari I and and uh Patagonia and and I think he has three millions something Instagram followers, uh and uh. And Charles is a good friend of his and and so he's

one of those guys. I believe he's a vegetarian and he definitely doesn't hunt, but he believes that, you know, preserving wild places and things are more important than whether you're holding a rod or a rock climbing rope. So he's can he's you know, agreed to be a contributor of the last two issues and um, you know, help us promote in a little bit of way, which which

is amazing. Um. And so they had a story about their work in Iceland and it's a it's a really cool story about how Iceland was the number one geothermal or no, they were using hydro dams from these glacial rivers for aluminum production and then that massive and I cannot pronounce the name of the volcano the eruption and like what was that two thousand fourteen or whatever massive volcanic eruption that disrupted like of the world's air traffic,

and that at that point they shifted. Um. There, that's when tourism started to become big and people wanted to come see these amazing places and that success. So now that's the number one resource in Iceland, is tourism. So that country realized, you know what, maybe we should destroy our glacial rivers by doing aluminum production that we should support it. And so they're about to put in place an ordinance that would make of the island at National Park and and so that's kind of what Chris is

bringing attention to. And um, and then you know, we've got Gunar from Iceland who's a traditional Icelandic Arctic fox hunter. Yeah, let's let's this guy. I love this many many reasons because if you just posted the picture of this feller, he looks straight out of the show Vikings. Yeah, but also I think there's like there's hipsters that might also dress like this. So if you look at this, you're like, oh,

look at this guy. What a loser. But then you started to read about it, like this could could this heat? This is a man he ang men. So he's a I can't remember, third or fourth generation Icelandic Arctic fox hunter. So his grandfather taught him how to hunt. And he's got this massive red beard and he wars. The knit sweaters and this heal for boots and this is this

is real. This isn't like a fashion show. And he wrote this amazing story is my definitely my favorite one in the issue about the history of when the Vikings first landed in Iceland, they had to compete with the Arctic fox with the same food source, and so over time, you know, and a lot of it has to do with the eider eider birds right at which are endangered and or that they were praying on the livestock, which in Iceland like if you don't have your live stock

in the winter, you're done for. And that has evolved over time to a government sponsored fox management program. So he is professionally hired by the Icelandic government. He gets paid per tale to protect these eider birds settlements. So he literally camps out and snipes these foxes to keep the balance of wildlife. And you know, it's something that's controversial because people love Arctic foxes, but if you go to Sweden and Norway, the Arctic fox is endangered because

the red fox praise on those. So he goes over there and shoots red foxes. So he's got this like amazing relationship and and the the detail and the the depth of the relationship that he has with the landscape and the animals is unbelievable. And it's like you talk about a guy coming from the land and living a life of the land. It's not any better than this, and and and he's a he's intelligent, he's articulate, he's a talented photographer. His wife's a hunter. They're already teaching

their daughter about the ways of their life. And this is one of those things where it's it's tied up in the cultural tradition exactly that you know, it's sometimes clear. And I enjoy those folks the most, you know, and I've run into them, had him some on this show that hunting is they just emote this cultural sensitivity to who they are, what they do hunting is that du

Sean talks about that about his native country. Um, other folks like Wyman Men'ser and and Charles Rowdy and people have been on this show that that have They just it just comes out of them. They breathe it. It is them. And so because it is them, it's part of the culture that they came up in and that can be powerful. And I'm sure this can't wait to read it. I'm sure it's powerful as well. Yeah, he's an interesting guy. Should you should you should have him

on sometime? Yeah, hook me up. Yeah, I'd love to talk about dude. Yeah, Well, thank you, Tyler, Um and go go look at Modern hunts and volume three. There are two other volumes that are I'm sure still available and um, Like I said, I appreciate, appreciate your honesty and your openness about what you do and what you feel about your mission with this book, I think it's admirable. Well, thanks Ben, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on here. All brother cheers. I guess I grew up on an

all day. That's it. That's all episode number sixty eight in the books. It was a good one. It's always of this conversation We've had a lot on this podcast. Uh, it's really kind of the reason I started this podcast. How what's you know? What's our wife for hunting? How do we communicate that? Why? How do we talk about our motivations? How do we talk about the narrative to the to the broader public. It's it's something that will continue to talk about here. I try not to overdo it.

In recent podcasts. We we have talked about a lot of varied subjects, which is always fun to return to this because it really is the thing that I think we could talk about forever. So thank you to Tyler Sharp. Go pick up Modern Huntsman. Volume three, Monor Huntsman dot Com and thank you to Anthon Kat my new boss. Hopefully he sticks around his family moves in Montana. You're gonna hear a lot from him in the coming weeks. What else do we got? What else? Oh? Um? Go

to the Mediator store. You should do that all the time, every day that you can. There's a lot of stuff there. There is our I really want uh to highlight our new shirt relative and news has been out for about a month or so. Our Auto Leopold shirt. Uh, it's it says Aldo freaking Leopold on it, and it says that because he's a badass and he's one of the fathers of conservation. He's written some of the seminal works in our world. And you're gonna be walking around with

the illustrated picture of Aldo on your shirt. People are gonna ask you who's that and you're gonna get to tell him. So you're gonna be a messenger for that man in his great works that have inspired all of us. So go to the Mediator dot com, click on the shop and then go find that t And there's some other stuff there. There's Hunting Collective, Vietti Tumbler. There is the pro Nuance Anti Bullshit t shirts. There are some other logoed hoodies and hats and things like that there

that I think are pretty cool. I hope you go check out and pick up and what else. There's other stuff with this store. You're always gonna want to go there and check those things out. But I also want to address before we get out of here, um, the great feedback we got on last week's episode number sixty seven on the Lama Laryns. The Lama Laryerons are a subsistence hunting tribe on a small line in Indonesia. I've I've got dozens of emails here from people that really

liked that episode and really like about Clark. A lot of you had questions about his experience. I've sent some of those over to Doug and hopefully he can get back to us and we'll cover that on future podcasts or I'll just email you guys back and with his answers. So thanks for listening to that episode. We're gonna leave you on this episode numb leave you with some listener feedback and then old number seven, So enjoy see you next time. Bye. Hey, this is Andrew just calling to

give some of my feedback. Um, first off, I loved the interview with Charles Rodney. Um, such a cool guy, such a cool story. I love small game hunting. I loved seeing different types of people and um, how they hunt and what they do and what their heritage is. I mean, UM, it's just so cool to see something varying from the status quo and to see like an

alternative version of of American history heritage hunting. So that was a real treat and I felt like I was there with you guys, and what a great interview, So

thank you for doing that. Um. In in junction with that interview, you guys were talking about people of color in the hunting world and how there aren't a lot of them and how uh we want more and and you also sort of tiptoed around it while you're doing it because people had such adverse reactions to it, and UM, I think maybe we could investigate a little bit why why do people have such knee jerk reaction to the mere mention of people of color in the hunting and

how there you know, I mean, anyone with two eyes can see what the hunting world is. Come on, it's white men, you know, and and why is that it hasn't? You know, white men didn't invent hunting? Um, so why don't people of color have access? Or why aren't they welcomed into spaces? Um? You know, why don't they have as rich of a heritage of hunting as you know, the average white man? Might? You know? Um? I think it's it's something to investigate, and I think just the

emotions behind it are something to investigate. It would encourage people to ask themselves why doesn't make them mad? You know? Uh? Why? Why? Why? Why? I'm really truly baffled and shocked and honestly appalled. They say, don't read the comment section, and I honestly wish I wouldn't have had read it. But what's done is done, so I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks by hey man. This is Nate Schnick from Western Minnesota calling

it yea. I just want to tell you how much I appreciate your podcasts, really appreciating all the turkey content that you put out this spring. I am an adult onset turkey hunter. I've been hunting a lot of other stuff, mostly white tailed years, since I was a kid. This is with my first spring, turkey hunting went out with the d n R program and n wtf kind of joint program. Uh got a bird within thirty minutes of getting out my first morning and was able to get

a really nice time and I am hooked. Yeah, keep up the good work, keep it rolling. I wouldn't be a post and more turky talk during the summer. Thanks man, Thank you. Jack Daniels. Oh, I'm seven Tennessee. Who whiskey got me dragging in heaven and uh and just stopped. It looks good to me. They're gonna have to de bump into the far red. Oh, the far red. D farry d d he