Season 2, Episode 3: "Fertility vs Responsibility - How to Navigate Personal Issues That Impact Work Performance"

We are all foreign , most of us European , but we also have some people from Australia and Asia . Being a manager of the international team is a challenge , especially because I'm relatively new to the role . I can feel a lot of pressure coming from the central office and also some of my supervisees are older or with similar work experience .

I think that I have been doing well as a leader up until one of my employees found out that he's going to be a dad . I was very happy for him , as I know that him and his wife have been trying for a baby for many years .

All good and jolly , but there is one issue Because the pregnancy is so precious to them , the wife is super anxious and she doesn't want to go to the doctor's appointments on her own , which I totally understand .

What it means is that my employee will frequently take the time off to be with her , and normally it wouldn't be a problem , but we are near closing a very important project and we are under the pump . We really need this guy to be present .

I tried to mention this to him , but he immediately got super defensive and concluded that I don't care about his family . Now his demeanor changes . He's a bit short or avoidant with me . I don't think I handled it properly . Is there a chance to repair it ? I don't want this situation to turn into a conflict that will jeopardize the success of our project .

Oh wow .

Okay , so let's have a think about how we could tackle that , how we could approach this situation . Okay , so I think it's really worth thinking about what we have in here , what sort of information we were given by that letter .

So what I'm hearing in here that we've got that leader who is in a very complicated situation a lot of internationals , a lot of pressure on that leader . He works for the company with many branches . I suppose there will be maybe few different leaders above that leader's head . So that's this complexity , okay .

So the structure of the of the company uh , obviously , being away from the headquarters , as much as I understood that these , it's somewhere out there in the world . Um , we've got that employee who's obviously emotionally charged because there were , there was a lot of trouble in getting pregnant and they succeeded , but now they are worried about it .

So that's another reason that the author of this letter is so distressed . It looks like they

already had a conversation , some sort of conversation , and it didn't really go well . Right , we have a bit of a disruption of relationship in here . Right , we have a bit of a disruption of relationship in here . Okay , so many elements there , and the first thing that I would say is the person asked the question is it possible to repair the situation ?

Is it possible to do something about it that we can get on the same page , that we can feel comfortable together ? And the answer to that is yes , absolutely , absolutely . A little caveat in here it's going to be hard , my friend . It's going to be hard , but it's possible . So that's the good news .

I'm always curious about your experience , emma , in the way that have you ever destroyed accidentally , I suppose any relationship with your employee ? Not completely , but have you ever disrupted a relationship with one of your employees ?

However , the frame of mind that I was in , I would say , did come from an immense amount of pressure that was on me and a huge workload that I was trying to cope with and obviously wasn't coping really with it . But I'm not one to say I need help or I'm not coping . It's too much .

That's just not in me to say that , because I think I can do it all okay , we need to tackle that in a separate episode .

We're gonna go back to it yes , so so I can definitely appreciate , yeah , how he might feel that maybe they didn't handle the situation , probably because I've done exactly the same thing and it really affected a relationship that I had with one of my people that I work with , I get that Okay .

And I think it's worth being very clear in here , letting everyone who's listening to this episode , letting everyone know that if you made a mistake as a leader , you can and you should work on repairing that mistake and it's nothing shameful . You are a human . You will make mistakes . Some of them will be gigantic . I will destroy the whole company .

Hopefully that never happens to you . But some of them will be minor . Some of them will be still annoying and difficult to work around and they will still impact how people see you .

But let's remember that we cannot really make anyone think anything specifically about us , because it will be still impacted by their own perspective , their own bubble , as we call it in human savvy . It will be still impacted by the background of the person .

However , we can still do our very , very best to make the amends to just show that we care about the quality of the relationship that we have . So , our dear leader listening to this episode , our dear author of this letter , it is okay , don't beat up yourself too much , you can come out of it .

So let's talk about coming out of it , because that is the thing that is the most important in this situation . I think we need to truly understand the immensity of emotion that is present in this particular case .

We've got two people , one person , that leader having so much pressure on their shoulders , being under the pump , like they said , and we have that dad-to-be or that already in early stages , who is super worried not only about the team but also about wives .

So there is such a huge amount of emotion there that of course there's going to be a clash and we talk about that in previous episodes a few times that when we get very , very stressed , we become a little bit tunnel visioned , right . So we naturally more selfish if we want to choose that word , because we want to survive .

That is our nature , our human nature , so we want to make sure that we survive . So we start focusing , narrowing our focus , and we are less likely to empathize with other people . Now , thinking about that dad-to-be , he is probably carrying the emotions of three people . The leader is carrying the emotions of 20 people .

So it's such a complicated situation and I think understanding what both parties in this conflict because that's conflict , what they truly want and need is essential . I have a question for you and I know that I can ask you . We talk about that . You gave me a permission to ask the question because we talk about those topics in the past .

We know that this dad is very stressed and his wife is very stressed because pregnancy is very precious . It took them very long time . Um , I know that you yourself had a pregnancy that wasn't straightforward . Help us listeners understand what sort of emotions might be happening for that couple that worked so hard to get pregnant . Help us understand , please .

So we ended up doing eight rounds of IVF before having to recruit an egg donor , which we were very lucky to have someone very special to us become our egg donor , which is amazing , and obviously everything you know went really well moving forward from that and we now have our beautiful daughter , which we're incredibly thankful for .

So I can definitely understand and empathise where this employee is coming from and one thing it probably depends on the type of person you are . But one thing that does happen , I think , with any trying to conceive journey is that it becomes all-consuming . It's an obsession and I think , yeah , absolutely , and it's something . It's because

it's all you think about . It's often as husband and wife or partners . You know you talk a lot about it , you know you're fearful because you worry is it not going to happen ? So emotionally it's really heavy and it's it is all consuming and it can sort of make you forget about other things or you prioritize other things less .

So I think sometimes what can happen , which can potentially be difficult for the people around you is that it becomes your number one priority . But it's not everyone else's number one priority , obviously , but sometimes you're so deep in it that that's all you can think about . So so , again , I can kind of understand that .

If someone then was to say not something negative about it , but , you know , just sort of maybe insinuating that you know you're not a hundred percent present in the job that you're supposed to be doing , I can understand why you would .

Someone would get defensive about that because it would be a bit triggering , because they're and I think , especially for the husband or the partner . You know they're trying to be the support person .

You know , obviously it's the woman that's going through all of the injections , all of the procedures , all of the ultrasounds , you know , and they're uncomfortable things , and I think the poor partner is trying to do what they can to support that person and I think that actually sometimes it's actually harder for them .

So it's like they're carrying maybe even more of a burden . So , emotionally , I mean , it's a huge , a huge roller coaster and , yeah , can be really challenging to deal with .

They can't grow that embryo . There's not much agency there right .

So you can absolutely understand and I think the leader completely understands where they're coming from and why . You know their wife is so , so anxious , but it is terrifying For sure , for sure . And I think for anyone that's pregnant , not just someone that's , you know , had a hard journey to conceive . I think the same goes for anyone who's pregnant .

But as much as I'm hearing in general , I suppose , all those very difficult emotions they will bring a lot of needs that this employee , this dad has the needs .

And we know that every workplace has those relationships between the leader and an employee and there are always some needs , requests and there are the offerings that we always go back to , that give and take .

Even my coach yesterday was chatting with someone and they were laughing about like , oh , I could hear his voice give and take , give and take , give and take . Even my coach yesterday was chatting with someone and they were laughing about like , oh , oh , I could hear his voice Give and take , give and take , give and take . I'm glad it works .

So there is that give and take that always happens and what this that needs . So the take would be a certain list of things . So please help me , Emma , with that . What do you think that person needs from their employee in that situation ? What do you think ? Let's collect it together .

What they do really need is to be given the time to go to those appointments with their wife and that's a tricky one , right , because there is that much time available .

This is every time when we analyze the situation , dear leaders , when you're listening to it , whenever you analyze the conflict that you are in or your employees are in , think about what is it that is missing and how could I fill up that gap ? What could I give to my employees , fill up that feeling , that gap ? What could I give to my employees ?

What can I ask for to make sure that there are no gaps that suck out the energy from everyone and make us really angry with one another , that there's that animosity in a room , in a relationship . So what is it that we are missing there ?

And we are probably missing two things in here Definitely that time , which is a very practical aspect of it , but also , potentially , the space to be a little bit defensive , to just not be our best selves , which would be that understanding , which would be compassion towards that , am I correct ?

Let's think about the leader . So what are the emotions of this leader ? And we also had a few little details in that letter that would be very interesting to go back to . I would love you to kind of remind us what this person said , because I am hearing a bit of potentially maybe self-doubt

or impostery feeling . Could you just give us a little bit of that part ?

But are the employees questioning , do they have the experience you know to be in that role ? That was definitely one , and then the other one was that this leader was concerned that they didn't handle the situation properly .

job , and then in the second part they mention , kind of like a proof that they are not smashing it , that they are not really good at this job , at least from their perspective .

So I can imagine for that leader it's not only being under the pump , but there is some sort of need , I suppose , to prove that they are good , that they deserve to be in this position .

So there must be some external and internal pressure to show that I'm not an imposter , I deserve to be in this role and I can handle situations like this and other difficult situations . So imagine that , that you are in this position , emma , and suddenly you have a lot of self-doubt , a lot of self-criticism .

Maybe it's even true we're not going to get there at the moment , but let's say , let's say you have loads of that self-doubt every day and then suddenly there's something that kind of hits you on the face , telling you you know quote unquote that , oh you suck , you actually are not good at this .

So let's think about the emotions that accompany potentially accompany that leader . What do you think , emma ?

We don't know , but we need to take that into consideration yeah yeah , okay . So yeah , I'm hearing self-doubt disappointment . Anything else ?

Are they going to have to rearrange schedules , and obviously that puts more burden on the leader . So maybe some sense of frustration for sure I think would be would be definitely something they're feeling .

So when anger comes to your mind , it is the amygdala , that emotional brain response really . So it is fear that can show up as anger . For sure , it's the self-protection , self-preservation , as simple as that . So this person might feel anger , but I would say that anger is a secondary emotion in this case and is kind of on top of the deep fear of survival .

Just to put it simply , I don't want to lose my job , I don't want people to laugh at me . It's lack of safety in here as well . This leader does not feel safe because there is a pressure coming from every possible angle . So I would say that there is definitely fear there as well .

They are both , I suppose , men , and they maybe do not want to admit it , they don't want to show it , they maybe are not even kind of allowed to show it that they are terrified , but they are and they both need a little bit of support , reassurance and a bit of tlc . Yes , one another and organization , absolutely For sure . That's so interesting .

This is why I love kind of disassembling those things . It's kind of like a jigsaw puzzle , you know . But once you get to that thing that people have in common , you've got this . You can resolve the conflict .

For those of you listening , leaders , who need to resolve conflicts , when you get to that point , when you can see what connects people , what they have in common , you've got this . You've got it sorted out , because now you can be guided by that finding . So let's get into the needs of the leader .

Everything that we talk about , all the emotions that leader is going through and all that pressure and fear . What does the leader need from the employee in this case , emma ? What do you think ?

So if you know when your appointment is , if you let the leader know , then that obviously allows the leader to , you know , potentially be a little bit more open about giving that time off , because you know they can plan for it , they can work around it , they can not schedule meetings for that particular time .

So , yeah , giving as much advanced warning is definitely a need , you know , because then that then helps the leader support the employee .

this is a multicultural organization , the leader is new to the role and there suddenly boomed that gigantic issue . Do you think organization could help that leader , even approach the situation ?

But I guess the other thing is that does this leader have a mentor that they can talk to or reach out to ?

I'm sure this is not the first dad in the company . At least I hope so , because otherwise our , like the future of our planet is in trouble . There's like no place . Oh , so , definitely a mentor . There will be someone who knows how to approach it or at least can give some sort of advice .

So what this leader needs is not only information , but a lot of support and reassurance and maybe information about the policies that already exist there around , what is allowed , what is not .

Policies that already exist there around , what is allowed , what is not , Because this leader will be probably terrified that someone above his head will ask him how could you allow that person to be away for such an amount of time ? They will have a lot of issues with that leader .

The more clarity we have , the more we know about the policies that are there , the calmer we can feel because we know that , okay , I did everything according to our little laws that we have in this company , so no one can blame me . So that information comes from the outside as well and from within the relationship . I love that word that you use .

That information , that's fantastic . What about emotionally ? So , going back to the relationship between the leader and employee , is there something that , emotionally , the employee could give to the leader ? Is this something we can try to create between one another and has to come from the employee ?

So I suspect that this leader is not sure if he can trust this employee , that this employee will do everything that they can , everything within their power , to actually be present , that , in other words , that they do prioritize work , that it's obviously not the same priority as the pregnancy but it's still very important .

So I suppose if the employee gave a little bit of reassurance to the leader , being very open about it . Let's say Steve , listen , I know that you're under the pump . I know that I'm adding stress to your pump in here . I hope that you understand how stressed I am and how much I care about my wife and this child .

But I can promise you , I promise you that I care . It is still important to me . Does it make sense , emma , what I'm kind of trying to draw in here ?

That the leader is truly taking into consideration all the conditions and they make the decision that was very considerate and that took all those factors into account . So that mutual trust I am giving you everything I can and I am giving you everything that I can . That is very important .

But if we never talk about it , if we never talk about what we need from one another and what we are willing to offer it , it's going to be unsaid . It's going to be just like do you see how that mind feels ?

He's just like they got got pregnant . They don't need this job anymore . They do it , maybe on purpose . All those terrible stories , right ? So , guys , we need to talk . These are difficult conversations , but we need to have them , and even if you try to have them and it didn't work , we want to restart .

So let's boil it down to that kind of clear guidance , kind of a skeleton of the conversation that we could have in that situation . How does that sound , emma ? Should we Perfect ?

the time in your schedule and you meet there in a privacy , you have enough time and to literally take a piece of paper and a pen and write down your names on that piece of paper , make a bit like a table , and one column will be Steve and one column will be George and we put you know like two little like rows , needs and offerings .

You can make it very simple , very visual , and have a conversation guided by that to talk about . Okay , steve , I'm really worried about this situation . I think we

had a conversation that did not go well , that I feel that we need to understand one another and just make a plan together because we are in this together . It's not me against you .

This is what I need , and don't be afraid to be vulnerable and granular in there to say , steve , I need to have information from you , which means this , this , this , and that I need to be able to trust you , which means this , this , this and that . Would you be able to offer that to me ?

Is that something that we could agree on and we build that together ? We talk about ? How does it look practically ? So do I let you know ? I don't know . Every week I tell you if we have any new appointments , maybe even every day if something changes . Um , you guys will know best that .

The author of this letter will know what sort of conditions are at work . But we need to have it practical , palpable . We know exactly what we're doing in there . And the same goes to the other person , to our george .

I probably mixed up the names by now , by now , but let's say , george says to the leader listen , I need to know that I can trust you and that you trust me , that I truly , really care and vocalize that I still care about this job , but obviously that pregnancy is incredibly important and this is what I can offer .

So I can make sure , and it's my responsibility to be truly aware of all those meetings that are coming , all all the appointments with the doctor , and I will let you know . I will put them in a calendar the way you see them . I will do it timely . If anything changes , I also update it timely .

So there might be a lot of things that they can establish between one another to achieve that goal . The practical goal is to make sure that that time is given but the job is still done .

Maybe it would be some idea coming from George or from the dad that you know , one of my colleagues is actually fantastic at one of my duties , so we could potentially temporarily delegate that part of my job to this person , because leader might have no idea that this is actually an option , you see .

So george needs to sit down and think about all the things that can facilitate the situation , and the same goes to the leader . Both of them need to think about it . So the practical outcome is to have that time and have the job done , but there's also the emotional outcome .

We always think facts and feelings , both of those for the feelings , so that they both can minimize the fear and frustration . How does this sound to you have I avalanched . I love it .

We talk about the problem , but let's come up with some solutions and this is really solutions focused , and obviously having or creating those solutions together again is going to go a long way in repairing that relationship , because it's showing that you have that mutual respect , that you do care about the organization , you care about employee and leader .

So , yeah , I absolutely love it .

So we make a social contract , as it's called in psychology , between you and I kind of like SOP on how we treat one another . And you mentioned before that one of the needs of the dad will be to have a bit of a space to be defensive , to have a bit of a space to not be their best self in that situation .

And the same kind of goes towards the leader . The leader is under the pump , so they , they should try to manage their emotions as much as they can , but they it will be hard for them . So , in other words , they kind of need to sit down and clearly establish between one another that , mate , I'm gonna cut you some slack , I'm not gonna take it personally .

Yes , the compassion , that we're going to be compassionate towards one another and that we also describe how it looks practically . It could be very , very concrete , simple ground rules that , for example , I don't complain about you and I don't moan about you to my colleagues , that that's our , our sacred space and relationship .

When we don't create gossip or judgment or destroy somebody's reputation outside of this relationship , um , we can really protect everyone in a team from like a big dose of potential incivility and negativity that could come out of it . Um , so let's remember everyone that solutions are super practical , but they're also the emotional solutions .

They're concrete steps , actions that support our emotional health . Love it , okay . I hope that it helps our dear listener , emma . Would you be keen to try it out in the future ? If you had some sort of conflict with your employee , would you at least sit down with them , take a piece of paper and talk about it ?

And we really hope that you can grow through those conflicts that you have , because you will have conflicts in a team . You will need to resolve them as the leader , but that will help you to grow , grow , grow and become very much a human savvy leader .