Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College. All Things hillsdalet Hillsdale dot ed or I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there, and of course I listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue, all of them at hue for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple, iTunes and Hillsdale Good morning, or ain't even greats America? A good Monday to you. I'm to you at on the West coast for a few weeks and what a remarkable weekend. And my head is off to the American military.
Some were wounded in this and prayers for their quick recovery. According to the government of Cuba, thirty two Cuban security forces were killed in Operation Absolute Result, but we haven't had that confirmed by American sources yet. But apparently a couple of the special forces that entered the Maduro compound to take the dictator and his spouse out and put them into American custody, get them to Brooklyn where he appeared in court earlier today. We're wounded. Our prayers for
their family. More detail on that as it occurs. First thing I want to say is it was absolutely legal. Now I realize we have Steelers fans, and then they might even be sober yet because of the way that they won yesterday. Article two, Section one, first sentence, The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States. Article two, Section two, first sentence. The President shall be the Commander in chief of the Army and the Navy of the United States. You know what that means.
That means he runs the Department of Justice, which had an indictment against Nicholas Maduro and his wife for many years now. So it's a law enforcement operation wrapped inside of a military operation that got it done, and it was absolutely legal. But for the benefit of the people who've been listening to mainstream media and a little bit
confused about can the United States do that? I could take you all the way back to Jefferson ordering the Louisiana purchase when he named they it was constitutional for the Congress and he to agree to do it. But let's just stay in the last fifty years. Gerald Ford in the Maigias incident May twelve through fifteenth, nineteen seventy five,
no prior authorization from Congress for grabbing that boat. President Carter ordered Operation Eagle Claw on twenty four April nineteen eighty It did not succeed the famous Desert One debacle, but he ordered it without telling Congress, President Reagan and the Grenada Operation Urgent Fury October twenty five, nineteen eighty three.
We could talk about George H. W. Bush in Panama, and I have, as many people have in December and January nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety to get mister Norriega out of there and into the US jail. We talk about Bill Clinton's seventy eight day bombing campaign of Serbia in March to June of nineteen ninety nine. We can talk about President Obama bombing Libya, though he was quote
leading from behind in words attributed to him. Those air strikes began on March nineteenth, twenty eleven, Operation Neptune Spear May Tewond of twenty eleven to get Ben Lauden again didn't tell anyone before we did it, and of course he could do it. Some people we'll say, well that at the AUFM behind it, but f and they are right. But it does demonstrate we don't have to tell Congress.
The strikes on Solomoni and albag Dottie which the President Trump mentioned from his first term in Saturday's extraordinary press conference. Both of them, you don't tell Congress. It's absolutely the use of the armed forces. It's covered by the Constitution. President Biden ordering Syrian air strikes in February twenty eleven,
again no notification of Congress. First, the Donald Trump effect Trump derangement syndrome has completely shattered the ability of the American media and the Democratic Party to cover the obvious. He's a bad guy. He's an evil guy. He ran a cartel, so did his wife. He looted billions of dollars from Venezuela, which we'll try and get back for
the Venezuelan people. Moreover, the three most important things that were said in the press conference the President did on Saturday morning, which I listen to live while I was trunneling down at Huntington Beach. Number One something, Secretary Rubio said, President Trump does not play games. Number Two something President Trump also said on that day, Secretary Rubio said he didn't play games. President Trump said life is a deal, and by that he meant everything is on the table,
and I'm negotiating with you. I make you a couple of offers and you don't take him, you're stuck with the consequences. Iran learned that with Operation Midnight Hammer in June of last year, when their nuclear weapons program was destroyed by RB twos after the Eleven Day War begun by Israel with Iran during the course of the larger war that Israel actually had launched against it by Iran
and its proxies in October of twenty twenty three. But I would point out all of this is absolutely with precedent. It's not unprecedent. It is an unprecedented level of complexity as far as I can tell. Listening to General Kin, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I was astonished by the number of moving pieces here, and I'm astonished
in State secret now. Apparently there are reports that both the Washington Post and the New York Times had heads up of the operation, but were requested by the Pentagon and the President not to say anything, and they didn't because they would have put our men and women in
the armed services at great risk. The element of surprise was essential to grabbing the cartelista, and mister Maduro pleaded innocent today, right, we don't believe that second thing that the president said after he said life is a negotiation. Life is a deal. He said on Air Force one yesterday, when asked by one of our terrific reporters, what happens next, he said that depends. Of course, that's the right answer. You know, we don't know what the regime, which has
not been changed. We grabbed Maduro and his wife and the ability to do that, to blink out Caracas at night, and to take out their air control system and to get special forces in and out in two and a half hours. Sends a message to the acting president, who is Maduro's flunky, to the Interior ministry, and their interior minister is not like our Doug Bergham. He's not worried about the national parks. Their interior minister is the secret police,
and there's a lot of secret police in Venezuela. I'll talk with Dan Rundy about that later. What does he do, What does the head of the military do. Maduro depended upon both of them to secure power through two elections that he lost, and so he's a corrupt dictator. When the president says he took our money, he means he expropriated American assets and did not pay for them. Any sovereign country in the world can expropriate anything they want,
but they have to pay for them. And we've had We've seen this many, many times since nineteen fifty nine, and Fidel a lot of people expropriate assets Iran expropriated American assets in the nineteen seventy nine Iran revolution, the one that's coming undone in real time. And I'll keep you updated throughout the course of the show as to what is happening in Iran where the protests and the
riots have gone on. At least sixteen people have been murdered there by the moolas the thugs over the weekend, according to Reuters. I'll keep you posted on that throughout the day. But to go back to what the President said, when it depends if Venezuela is talking to Secretary Rubio and Director Ratcliff, who runs a CIA, as well as
of course people in the White House. Secretary Rubio is also the National Security Advisor, and I have former National Security Advisor Robert O'Brien on later in the program, Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Centator Cotton on later in the program. If they are talking to American officials and saying, here's what we're going to do. We're not going to shoot dissidents. We're going to hold elections. Chevron can begin
to upgrade all the installations that are here. We're not going to steal any more money, and we're not going to kill people in the streets. And the Chavista movement, which is twenty to thirty percent of the population, is not going to ride and try and kill America. There are twenty three thousand Americans in Venezuela right now, twenty three thousand. So the word has gone forth, do not threaten or injure those Americans. And I would be worried if,
of course I had a family member. I don't, but I had a family member in one of the many industries in America has in Venezuela. If I have a cruise ship in Venezuela and cruise ships do call on the islands of Venezuela, I would be worried, but only if they're morons, because and they might be, I don't know that they're not. Iran has turned out to be full of morons. If they're morons, they will threaten an American because you know Donald Trump won't put up with that.
The Donro doctrine is if you're kill an American, will kill you. Most recently isis in Syria killed two American soldiers, one civilian, and we kicked the living day lights out of them for two days with air strikes. If they threaten an American, that threat will be dealt with. That's Operation Midnight Hammer. The Donroad doctrine is pretty doggone clear. Do not kill or threaten American. Do not send drugs into our country, do not send terrorists into our country.
Because we had a long arm, we got a military that is second to none in the world. It's so astonishing the complexity of that operation. And unlike the Biden administration, we have the will and the ability to use the military that we are blessed with. Unlike the Obama administration.
It's not all tak talk talk talk talk dot talk talk talk talk talk talk blah blah blah blah blah. It's action after an offer negotiate. Many offers were made to Maduro, been widely reported. Now he turned them all down. He's a billionaire who can't get it was billions. His son's got a billion dollars, allegedly according to some of the reports.
I'll cover it all with people throughout the day, beginning with bethleing Seandark right after the that's her X handle. It's Bethany Mandel from the Mom Wars just got back from Israel. I wonder how she's reacting as an average American mom who's watching this and wondering, what's it mean for Israel, What's it mean for China, What's it mean for Russia? What's it mean for everybody who would play with the American people or their military anywhere in the
world or take our people hostages. It means Donald Trump's got your number, and if he calls, answer and listen very close to you what he says, because, again the quote Secretary of State Rubio and National Security Advisor Marco Rubio, Donald Trump doesn't play games. I'm Hugh Hewett. I'll be right Backstay two. Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Ewett. Joined down by United States Senator Tom Cotton from Arkansas. Senator Cotton is chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee as
well as of the Republican Conference. Senator Cotton, welcome, Happy New Year to you can I start with just your reaction to Operation Absolute Resolve.
Happy New Year to you, Hugh and all your listeners. It was a very happy New Year achievement early Saturday morning, an amazing operation by our military and intelligence professionals to remind not just Nicholas Maduro but every bad guy around the world that the long arm of American justice is long. Indeed, it's hard to overstate how exceptionally well executed this operation was, but that's really become kind of the hallmark of President
Trump's military operations over five years in office. If you think about the raid to kill the ISIS leader in Syria, to kill Iron's Paris mastermind in Iraq, to blow up Iron's nuclear program last June, and now to capture Nicholas Maduro. All were flawlessly executed and involved no loss of American life,
and greatly advanced to America's national interest. This actually may be the most impressive of all when you hear how General Kane described so many different elements of our joint force and the fact that the capturing and exiltrating the target is in some ways harder than killing one or destroying something. So kudos to all those who are involved I don't think in overstate what a great operation it was.
Now, Senta Cotton, you are a part of the Group of eight as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, along with your House counterpart, the ranking Democrat. I think it's Mark Warner and the ranking Democrat in the House and the leadership of both parties in the House of the Senate. When did you first get notice that this had happened? I know you weren't worn beforehand for security reasons, but when did you first find out?
When missus Cotton, who's a lighter sleeper than I, began elbowing me in the side on three point thirty Saturday morning Central Time and saying, why is Marco Rubio calling you? And I said, I don't know, but I bet it's exciting.
So he used to do what you are.
I mean, he used to be in the Group of eight. He was the chairman of the Intel Committee. Do you consider yourself timely and adequately notified by the executive branch of what they ought to do?
Yes, no question you and they have kept me in my committee and my other committee, the Armed Services Committee, apprized of the operations we've had in the Caribbean and the Eastern Pacific all along, and I think within twenty four hours, gosh, you less than that, Probably within maybe twelve or sixteen hours. I had spoken not just to President Trump, but every man that was on stage behind
him Saturday. That's his core team, the people who are the architects of this policy and who carried it out. Marco Ribio, Pete Heexas, General Dan Kine, John Ratcliffe, Stephen Miller. Had spoken every single one of them before Saturday night. I did not get advanced notice or correct nor what I expect to ever advanced notice about such a mission.
This is an operation, as we heard from the President, General Kane, that was heavily dependent on contingent factors like light and weather conditions in Venezuela and precise knowledge of Maduro's whereabouts at any given moment. That's not the kind of thing that you expect advanced notice to Congress for, nor for that matter, do expect advanced notice every time the executive carries out and arrest of a drug trafficker,
whether it's in Venezuela or in Arkansas. Again, just in the ordinary course of affairs, that's not the kind of thing that the Executive branch calls up to the legislature and gives a notice.
Of now, Sarah Cotton, the President's setting Saturday morning press conference. Congress leaks, and we know by that that sometimes political actors leak. But I also thought the Chinese and the Iranians are heavily invested in Venezuela. They probably try and monitor our electronic activity and our signals intelligence. I don't I think that there's even a risk of leaking by people who don't intend to leak. If they just say the wrong thing and the wrong cell phone, is that part of the issue.
It could be hugh. And you don't even necessarily have to know what people are saying all of a sudden. If there's a flurry of activity of you know, calls going out to certain key congressional leaders, you can probably figure out that something must be up if you've had
access to that knowledge. I don't want to confirm or deny any such access, but I think it's the best when you we've invested as much time and effort as our government and tracking the Duro's movements in putting the forces in place to affect this arrest, that there's under no circumstances you want to risk operational security, and what incredible operational security we had what's going on for more than four days.
The other thing that's incredible is the level of unfamiliarity with special operations by our national news anchors yesterday, and Secretary Rubio spank them all. But my question to you is, when President Trump was asked on Air Force one, what happens next, he said, it depends, which I think is
exactly the right answer. What will you be looking for from the Venezuelan regime which is still in place, including their interior secretary minister is not like Doug Bergham, that's the secret police down there, head of their military, and their new acting president. What do you think they ought to be doing right now?
It depends heavily on their actions. As Secretary of Rubio said just before me on facination yesterday, we're not going to listen to what they say in speeches or press releases. We're gonna or what they say to us privately. We're going to monitor actions. And until just two days ago, those folks that you just mentioned, the Vice President, Interior minister, the Defense Minister, were I to the hip in league with Nicholas Maduro. They've been sanctioned, some of them have
been indicted like him. It's always possible to turn turn over a new leaf. We've seen it in Syria with Akhmad al shara, a former altia Isis leader. We saw it in Libya with Kadafi after he came in from the cold when we scared him straight after the Iraq invasion. But those cases involved concrete, clear concessions to US interests or a longer track record of moving in the right direction.
We don't have either of that yet in Venezuela. So the Venezuelans need to take certain actions, I would say, to prove that it's going to be a new day in Venezuela. They could release all political prisoners today, kick out the worst of the worst, the Iranians, the Cubans has Belah Loss and so forth. They could welcome back
the opposition and guarantee their safe passage into Venezuela. These are all actions that could be taken immediately that don't prejudice any future actions on the nature of Venezuelan's government, who's going to lead it, when there might be elections, so on and so forth. Those are things that they can do to prove that they got the message that
it needs to be a new day in Venezuela. And as President Trump said, if they don't, well, he reserves the right to do something to Rodriguez and anyone else, just like we did the Maduro. It may be worse.
Now, last question, Senator Cotton, the President has threatened the Iranian regime if they murdered dissidents in the streets. What ought they to be thinking right now? If they're the molves or the IRGC or the head of the army.
We got one minute, well, I mean, Hugh between the President's threat, which I welcomed very much, to stand up to the Iranian regime if they massacre their citizens protesting unlock what Barack Obama did in two thousand and nine. You can add they're great concern when they saw the American military swimp into Venezuela and now Venezuela's legitimate dictators. I imagine they're a little antsy in Tehran today and I would urge them. As Secretary Ruber said, to take
Donald Trump seriously. Don't believe he's bluffing, don't believe that you can play play him in this, and don't massacre your own citizens soon effect the changes they're demanding.
Center. Tom Cotton, Chairman of the Intel Committee, thank you for joining me on a busy day for you, and I appreciate the time. Happy New Year to everyone. If you get those calls in the middle of the night, try and answer them and let your wife sleeton. Thank you, Senator. I'll be right back in America. Pache even grace in America.
I'm due huit. Joined by Ambassador Robert C. O'Brien, formerly National Security Advisor to President Trump in term one of Donald Trump's first term as president, is now the Chairman of American Global Security and I'm so glad to add Mona after this incredible weekend. Ambassador O'Brien, welcome. Let me begin with getting your reaction to Operation Absolute Resolve.
Well, Hugh, was good to see you in Happy New Year to you as well, my friend. There was an exquisite operation performed brilliantly by first of all our choir professionals, the CIA guys who were prep for the battlefield. And we're down in the in the jungles and the urban
areas of Venezuela for months prepping this thing. In the Intel right laying the ground where for you know, traders and treasoners and treesons u Venezuelans and and patriotic Venezuelans who wanted to see that the regime change to cooperate
with our guys. And then Delta Force assisted by the hundred and Safety Airborne or Air Air Assault Regiment and Aviation Regiment, the n Ice Soccer's getting down there and into Venezuela in the middle of the night, and and Holly Maduro out of his fortress and brand of justice in America. Just one hundred percent exquisite operation from start to finish.
Do you believe it is legal to have done this?
We got, we got There was a warrant out for his arrest, It was indicted for drugs. This is not There was a lot of political reasons to do it, but this was a strict enforcement effort backed by the Biden administration when they were in office, and it was one hundred percent legal. He's now facing justice, and look, he's pretty lucky to be in a New York court when New York courts haven't been very generous to Donald
Trump over the past few years. So well, you know, he's got a fair and impartial Clinton appointed judge, and we'll see how the case goes. But it looks pretty rock solid to me.
Asked on Air Force One yesterday, what happened is next, President Trump answered that depends I think that made a lot of sense to me. But what do you think it depends upon? Most ambachelor O'Brien.
Well, it depends on how Delasi Rodriguez in the Tough East as the decided to play this. Look, they're a political party in Venezuela. They have some support, maybe twenty thirty percent of the votes in Venezuela. They continue to participate in the process, have free and fair elections and maybe have a role in a future sure, or they can be debathified like they would like the Saddam Hussein
loyal in Iraq. And I think what President Trump and Marco Rubio and John Radcliffe are looking at is in Pete hayesith is what happened in Iraq, and we disbanded the Iraqi Army and disbanded the government and then that was chaos and isis arose and I think they're looking for a reasonable transition. There's a very well forward opposition in Venezuela led by Edmunde good Gonzalez, who was elected president with like two thirds of vote and just last
year he's in Spain. He'll be coming back. You've got Ridam Machado, the Nobel Prize winner. You've got Juan Guido, who is the acting president and the foreign president of National Assembly. He's an excellent he'll be coming back to Venezuela. So that is a very strong opposition. I'm sure they're learning into the negotiations with Elsi Rodriguez, the current vice president, and we'll have a transition government and then get onto the business having framefare elections.
Now the Minister of the Interior and the head of their military have not changed, but I assume they are involved in conversations with Secretary of Rubio and perhaps the agency. Is that your assumption as well, That's my assumption.
And they'll be doing those negotiations in Spanish. Marco speaks fluent Spanish. They'll be negotiated with him, and he knows the regions very well. He's got a great team of people, including folks like Murca clopp for Coron who used to work for me, was the envoy for the region for a while. And they they'll take care of business. And look, they understand what happened to Maduro. None of those guys
want to be seen in the New York courtroom. So they've got an opportunity here to play ball and cooperate and potentially preserve a political future for themselves in Venezuela.
Secretary of Rubio on Saturday and that extraordinary press conference. President Trump does not play games. End of quote. You worked with him closely for two years or his NSA at the end of his first term, how do you how do you read President Trump does not play games?
Well, Marco is exactly right, and he's got my old position as well as means Secretary of State, the first person since Senator Kissinger in the whole both offices, and the poor guy's working his tail off. But he's doing a great job. And what he means is this is Donald Trump always presents the parties with a fair deal. He's an incredibly reasonable, pragmatic man. And in this case,
he offered Maduro several off rams. He could have gone to Moscow or Beijing or Havana and left and and you know, left on his own terms and turned things over. He decided not to decided to play a tough guy with Donald Trump, and he looked he thought he could leverage us with his illegal immigration, send in Trinido aregised to the United States, sending cocaine and fentanyld under minus, inviting Hezbollah and Iran and China into the region. He
thought all those things that'd give them an advantage. They didn't. Donald Trump doesn't play games, and he called his bluff and he Maduro is now in a Brooklyn jail, in a New York City courthouse, and so you know, he Trump. Trump gave him a lot of opportunities. He didn't take them. And look, this is what happens. It happened to Bagdaddy, it having to soul the money, happened to a lot of others. And when they didn't take the deal, they lost. Having the eye toll was a few months ago with
the Operation Midnight Hammer, with the nuclear program. Trump said, look open your facilities to full inspections, and you know, stop making a bomb and we'll leave you alone. And the Iranians gave us the middle finger, and they saw what happened.
Now. The most extraordinary statement in that press conference I listened to it live, is there's no transcripts. I'm doing this from memory. He either said President Trump either said all of life is a deal or life is a deal, meaning everything is the negotiation. Is that the essence of Donald Trump right there, very very much.
So, I mean, look, he's and it goes back to my comin. He's not an ideologue. He's a very pragmatic guy. He wants what His only ideology is a deep love for America. Donald Trump loves America like no nobody I've ever met, kind of kind of like Ronald Reagan, and he wants for it's best for his country, and he'll he'll cut deals. I mean, look, he's he's shown that, he's shown he's been He was very reasonable with Kim John.
He was very reasonable with cheating pain. Recently he's offered Puttin a great deal and Putin's refusing that deal, which is kind of surprising to me. So he's he's always willing to make a deal for peace and in the killing and he he war with these raids are a last option for President Trump. He even farwaver for doing the deal and doing things peacefully, and I think we've seen that. But if you push them too far, like Maduro did, you know, he found out what happens.
I won't come back to Venezuela in a moment. But the President has also made a threat to Iran that if they kill protesters, and fourteen people are alleged to be dead according to Reuters over the weekend, as Iran convulsives with protests, he will take action. What should the Iotolhamini and the IOGC understand about that threat.
Well, look, I saw today that the Iotola is already making plans to go to Moscow if President Trump enforces is s edict. So that's very good planning. Surprisingly, you know, the Iranian people who should be wealthy and doing well, have had a very difficult time economically. They can't get water, they know, they're lacking food stuffs. They said the Iotola has got ninety five billion dollars story away that he's going to take with him to Russia, which is crazy.
But so I think the Iatola and the moles are already making plans to get out of Dodge if they cracked it on these protesters, which they apparently are doing. There was some open source information in the news. I don't know what it means that a lot of the one hundred and sixtieth Aviation Regiment, the Nice Soccers for moving to England and moving to Europe, which they did before the last attack on Iran. So you know, we'll have to see what happens. But I don't think the
President's going to sit back and watching this. Some people be killed like Obama did in the Green Revolution when he signed with the Moles and ad Toolls or the people of Iran. I think that the president live r other side of the people of Iran over the Moles and the Iatolls.
Okay, let me go back to Venezuela. The last American oil company operating there is Chevron. The others were expropriated and they were screwed. They won international arbitration awards. It is a country's right to exppropriate industry, but they have to pay for them, and they've been screwed. What do you think Chevron ought to do? I to be standing by and willing to rebuild that what has basically rushed it out twenty five years? We got a minute left bachelor one hundred percent.
Chevron Ceo worked is a very smart guy. Chevron's hung in there under very difficult circumstances. A lot of people criticize them for it. I was actually in favor of Chevron's staying there and keep an American presence, hoping that something like this would happen, so Chevron can be the league, and I think the other American oil companies should get in there. But again, this is not to take the oil from the Venezuelan people. This is to produce the
oil from the Venezuelan people. Make Venezuela great again, make Venezuela rich again, make the people healthy, wealthy and happy, and at the same time given the American oil companies a chance to produce and then make a profit as well on the contracts that they owned.
A bachelor and Roberts the O'Brien, former National security advisor to Donald Trump, still a member of the Presidential Advisory Board on Intel and the chairman of American Global Strategy. Thanks for spending time us on a very busy newsday. I know you're in demand everywhere and I appreciate the time, Old Brent, Ambassador Robert O'Brien, thank you. Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. There are two stories going on in
the world that are major. Of course, the United States capture of Maduro and his spouse, and in Iran there are convulsions on the streets. To talk about the latter, and maybe in a comment on the former, I'm joined by doctor Michael Urn, former Israeli Ambassador to the United States. He's also the founder of the Israel Advocacy Group. Doctor Orrin. Welcome.
Let's start with the latter. How do you react to the remarkable operation conducted by the US military on the wee hours of the morning Saturday morning.
From an it's really perspective you great news, that's great news.
Listen. Generally speaking, Israel has an interest.
In having in America that is willing and able to project power around the world, even if I would even prefer a president who is critical of Israel but willing to project power over a president who made love US an unwilling to protect power, because that's America's interest. And I think it's not just That's interests also not just Israel's interest. It's every ally of the United States, Germany, South Korea, Japan. We all want that strong, tough projecting America.
And that's what we've seen now in Venezuela, and.
That increases, that enhances the security of all of us, all of us, and then more specifically, Maduro is a great friend of Iran, a great friends. His Bolah, his Bulla operates out of Venezuela. It operates it's drug trade out of Venezuela. It's a huge blow to Iran, and it sends an unequivocal message to our common enemies, whether it be mister Petro in Colombia, the Cubans, everyone's unnotice. Now you don't mess with this guy and mister Trump meaning and.
That redounds to our benefit.
It certainly does, and it directly related to what's happening in Iran today.
Let's go to what's happening in Iran. I am hungry for news, and the only place I can find it about up to date news in Iran is actually at the Times of Israel, and even it's a little bit behind AP and Reuters gives us a detail here in a detail there. What sort of a crisis is this for the regime in Iran that they're going through right now?
I think we have to distiguis between what's going on in Iran in the last few days, what's going to happen next couple of days, and what's happening.
In the longer term in Iran.
Okay, we've seen this film before where people come to the streets and the Iran regime has an m where they let people sort of blow off steam for a week or two. A couple dozen people may get killed, but finally they're going to come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on this revolt. That's the way it was in two thousand and nine. That's the way it was in twenty twenty two with the women's revolt, which was very brutally suppressed. And we're going to see because
this regime has tremendous power at its disposal. It has the IRGC, the Revolutionary Guards, the it has the army, It has a a group of thugs called the Besiege who come out with baseball bats and beat these people over the head. They haven't come out with their big guns yet, and they're not going to go quietly into that dark night. I guarantee you. There's a question whether they may want to pick a fight with us in order to detract attention from their domestic woes.
Maybe try to rally the people.
That's possibility, and we have been very vigilant about that. Okay, so what's happening. They may succeed in suppressing this revolt for a week or two, but the fact of the matter is the longevity of this regime is now very much in question. They have been humiliated by Israel, humiliated by the United States. They have no electricity, they have no water, their currency, the reality has lost sixty percent of its worth. Women are no longer wearing headcoverings in
the street. It's days are numbered one way or the other. And Iran's not coming back. They've now just lost this ally in Venezuela. They've lost Syria, They've lost Lebanon, They've lost Gaza. What's left? What's left for this regime?
Not much? And the quicker it goes, the better.
So how do you believe the Mullahs in the IRGC understand President Trump's threat to intervene if they kill protesters. What do they hear when they hear that.
I think they not just hear it.
They saw what happened with Maduro and they're going to take it very very seriously. And you know, if I were there, I could be making my travel plans to Moscow.
Now there is a element in the West, especially in the United States, arguing that we'll make it worse if we get on involved in Iran in any way, for example, strikes on the IRGC or the besiege headquarters, or if Israel does the same thing. What's your response to that, You only make it worse, crowd.
You know, it's like that bag. You know, there was an old.
Holocaust joke quote unquote about too Jews about be executed by the s S and the s S officers making fun of them, and says, you know, any last words, and once you raises his hand together, Jude puts his hand down and says, well, hey.
We're in enough trouble as it is.
Okay, And it's true of many things, We're enough trouble as it is. I generally speaking, I think it's good that the Israel keeps a low profile.
For the time being. We can help the revolt quietly.
But the United States is a superpower, and I says, can wield his power in ways that even we can't. And and if it would bring about the fall of this regime by some kinetic intervention, I think that's certainly within the power and the proven record of this president.
Now they've executed almost two thousand people since the Twelve Day War. Do you think they are afraid of people within the ordinary Iranian army, which is separate from the IRGC, or even the IERGC deciding maybe Hamani and the Mulas are not worth the trouble. We want to keep our thing going.
I think after last summer they wou'd be foolish not to be afraid, because Israel knew where those scientists were living, they knew where senior commanders were living, they knew where so many of the.
Rockets were situated.
The degree to which Israeli intelligence, to say something of American intelligence, had penetrated Iranian leadership and the Ilana military and the r GC is certainly reason for all of those Mullas to be shaken in their boots.
All right, last question, Ambassador Orn, what did you make of the Netahu Trump meetings last week? How were they received in Israel?
Well, they're very well.
Listen.
I was personally surprised.
I thought that the president would be more constrained, giving what's happened inside his own White House, inside the MAGA movement, with the you know, the criticism that he has not lived up to what he had promised to his voters to be put America first, as if you know, getting rid of a brutal drug dictator or even helping Christians in Nigeria who are threatened with Islamic extremists is not putting America first. But leave that aside. I thought he'd
be more constrained, and he surprised me. He kept that credible military threat on the table. And Hugh, that is the key to everything that's going to happen in the Middle East from now on. Keeping that credible military threat on the table means a week that Israel could have peace with Lebanon, peace with Syria, who knows, maybe in peace with the Iran and certainly peace with Saudi Arabia.
We're in a region where people respect strength and that's what the America is showing here and thrue strength will get peace.
Doctor Michael Urran, thank you for joining me. Follow him at Dr Michael Lauran, Doctor Michael Oran on x. The Azeril Advocacy group founded by doctor Oran also worth your attention online. Don't go on in or America. I'm de Hewett, Morning Laurin. Even Grace America from the Relief Stock Relief
Factor Studio West. I'm Hugh Hewett. It was like the Winter Olympic bad takes in the aftermath of the American Operation Absolute Resolve that got Nicholas Maduro in his spouse out of the military base in the middle of Caracas and to the United States, where he's under a wrist in a waiting trial in Brooklyn, and the bad takes mounted up like so many books in a library. Luckily, I am friends with Dan Rundy. Dan is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. He's
the author of the wonderful book The American Imperative. And by the time it was noon on the West Coast, I've gotten an eight page briefing paper on Venezuela from Dan on Saturday morning. It makes it sound like he's the desk officer for the Agency for Venezuela.
He's not.
He's just actually pretty smart about South America. Dan, welcome, when last week we met at our favorite watering hole in downtown d C. In December, you gave me the rundown of South America. The good guys are Argentina, Bolivia, and Chile right now. The bad guys are Cuba. Always Nicaragua and Venezuela. So with that taking off point, what do you make of what happened on Saturday in the early morning hours of Saturday and what gender still on
the table? You got a lot of runway run with it, mister Rundy.
Thanks, thanks a lot you. I'm happy to be here.
It was like a late Christmas present to see what happened to Nicholas Maduro and his wife.
These are very bad people.
Uh.
You know that Venezuela is a complicated place, and a lot of people can can justifiably talk about all the complexities of Venezuela. But President Trump, with this amazing action, with the with the help of our amazing military and our amazing intelligence services, cut the Gordian knot, cut the complexity and made it simple again. May He's created a new scenario for us to operate from. He wants five things from Venezuela. He wants us to stop he wants
Venezuela to stop the drugs. He wants Venezuela to cooperate with justice. He wants to see the country stabilized. He wants the enormal energy operation, normal energy pol I see in Venezuela. It's been run in a crazy way, and they and President Trump wants Venezuela to stop exporting chaos. I was so happy to see this happen, and I thought the operation that was carried out over the weekend was one of the best things that that I've heard
in a long time. I mean, it's been a year of a lot of good news and foreign policy, whether it's the the operation in Iran and now what's happened in Venezuela. And so I think we owe a big debt of gratitude to President Trump, our amazing military and our amazing intelligence service. And he he has created new leverage on the remaining Maduro regime in the in the hands of.
Delsi Rodriguez to say, look, we've got the top two copos of your mafia state under arrest, and we're also holding your oil exports under embargo until you make some changes.
So he's got a lot of leverage. And so I think it's really an exciting moment. I'm really gratified to see where we are.
Dan Rondie, let's ground this in the reality of the complexity that you mentioned at the beginning. You immediately told me, Hugh, remember there are twenty three thousand Americans there. Do you think anyone would dare touch an American in Venezuela right now from the security services? Would they not be asking to get blown up?
They're asking to get blown up.
We talk a lot in the foreign policy world about resetting deterrence. President Trump with this action really reset deterrence. That's just a fancy way of saying you better not mess with us, and that there's a credible threat. After what happened over the weekend, there's a credible threat. So if they messed with American citizen in Venezuela, it would not be a really good idea for the security services to do that. It is a complicated place. It's a divided society in many ways.
Did you freeze on me there, Dan, Yeah.
Are certainly at the very least right. We want what we want to see is behave, certainly behavioral change. You know, I know that Senator Cotton was on the show earlier today and he talked about this on the Sunday shows, that we want to have behavioral change in Venezuela. Like I said, stop the drugs, cooperate with justice, behave like a normal country, and that you know, Venezuela, you used to be a really wealthy place. It was wealthier than
places like Chili forty years ago. It was a stable place. It was an ally of the United States, and under Chavez and Maduro became a partner of Iran and let in Hezbealab partnered with the Russians and the Chinese Communist Party. These are and then you know, had this very mobbed up relationship with the Cubans. It's a very bad place.
Now, Dad, Runny. One of your data points you sent me and I do people should have like Dan so you don't have to talk through your hat. I got this long memo from Dan on things I needed No it was great. I knew what I was talking about on kill Me last night because I'd read it. I had no idea that between twenty and thirty percent of the population actually considered themselves Chevistas. Who are they and why are they Chevistas?
You know you.
I made a trip to Venezuela in twenty twelve and one of the things that shocked me this was during right after Hugo Chavs had died. And what shocked me when I was in Caracas Venezuela was that you drove around and you did see some signs of support for the Chavez Maduro regime. It's not the majority of the people, but there is a percentage of the people in the country that support this government. Some of it is because they give them jobs, some is because they give them money.
Some of it is because there are poor parts of Venezuela that maybe had been overlooked in the past, and this government had done given them free stuff, if I can put it that way, and had sort of bought allegiance, if I can put it that way. So there is a percentage of the population that does support the regime. It's not a majority. It's probably twenty percent. It could be as high as thirty percent. Nobody knows because it's
an authoritarian regime. But with President Trump's action over the weekend, we have the opportunity to have a different future for Venezuela. The vast majority of people don't want this government.
And the Interior ministry.
If you have there were elections, sorry, go ahead.
The Interior minister there and not like Doug Bergham, right, he's not taking care of the national parks. He's the secret police. What are the odds?
Yeah, there's a whole series. Yeah, there's a whole authoritarian regime setup. There's the military, there's the secret police. They also have armed citizens that are aligned with the government. That are these are you know, sort of like your local neighborhood militia, if I can put it that way. That's you know, that's on the payroll of the of the the Chavistas. So this is a very it's a police state, it's an authoritarian regime. They have repressed human rights.
They have cheated on elections multiple times, including most recently in twenty twenty four. The person who won the election at Mundo Gonzalez was not allowed to take possession of the government.
So you've had this a very.
This is a thug thug regime, it's a narco terrorist state.
What do the other countries of South America think about this? Obviously Colombia has gone left, Bolivia has gone right, Chile has gone right, Argentina has gone right. But within the region, what do they think about swooping in and grabbing the top narco and then getting out.
So most of the countries may how about this. Many of the countries in the region, our allies are relieved to see this happen. Argentina has supported this, and is you've had Paraguay and.
Bolivia supported this.
So serious countries with serious leaders have gotten behind President Trump's action. You have a crazy person in the President Petro of Columbia who's insane. Now, thankfully you he is leaving later this year there are elections in Columbia.
He can't run again.
I do think him having a fight with President Trump helps the cuckoo left candidate who's trying to replace him, And so we need to be a little bit careful of kind of playing into President Petro of Columbia's getting into fights with President Trump because there's some percentage of the Colombian population that you know that supports crazy President Petro. But he's you know, he's a substance abuser, he's a PHO, makes a lot of bad personal choices. He's nuts, so
he's not a serious person. Unfortunately, the President of Mexico has also chosen to take a similar position to President Petro. But overall, it's you know a collection of loser countries like Cuba, Nicaragua, who you know, who've screamed. But really I think there's significant relie if you look at the joy in the faces, and then you've seen dancing in
the streets by ordinary Venezuelans. Venezuelans, eight million Venezuelans you had to flee the country because of the mismanagement of this narco state in Venezuela.
They've all left.
It's one of the largest refugee populations in the world are Venezuelans who've left Venezuelan in the last twenty years because this wealthy country was driven into the ground by this this mafia, this mafia group financed by drugs.
All right, when we come back, Dan Rundy's going to stay here and we're talking about the three c's, China, and Chevron, and Dan's going to have a memo ready on the implications for each of those three and he's going to have advice for Chevron on what to do next. And then he's going to tell us about Nicaragua and Cuba. Don't go anywhere America. Rundy knows what he's talking about, which is unlike about ninety five percent of the people I've seen on media this weekend. So stay tuned to
the qq At Chef Welcome back. I'm quq At. Dan Rundy is my guest senior fellow at the Center for Strategic International Studies in Washington, d C. And one of the few subject matter experts on Central and South America DAN. A few years ago when Secretary Pompeo would hold his Madison dinners, especially missus Hewitt, and I went and I sat across from Michael Wirth, who's the CEO of Chevron, and I just thought, this is the smartest guy in
the room, mother not named Pompeo. If you're running Chevron, you've obviously got subject matter experts and country experts. What ought they to be considering right now in the aftermath of the Maduro expatriation to the United States.
So Chevron is the only American company operating currently in Venezuela. It's it's been granted a special license by the previously the Biden administration as well as.
The current Trump administration.
Other American oil companies like Exon Mobile had their assets nationalized in the last fifteen years, and so it's been a risky and complicated arrangement for Chevron to operate in Venezuela. And there have been a number of reasons for that given what happened over the last three days. Chevron's in a unique first mover advantage because it has assets on the ground and has maintained a relationship that hasn't broken its relationship, either with the United States or with Venezuela.
Now, the.
High water mark you of oil production in Venezuela was nineteen ninety and I think it was three point five million barrels of oil a day. And there's lots of what's the price of oil, and a whole bunch of other things that would be needed. Right now, it's about a half a million to a million barrels of oil a day is sort of what they estimate for Venezuela.
So to get back to that kind of level is an enormous amount of money, and you'd need there's a bunch of there's a whole complicated string of things you'd have to unpack, like who controls these assets, did they promise these assets as part of loans to people? Is it safe to invest in the country, is there some
level of security, et cetera, et cetera. But assuming you you could get all of those things that the estimates are fifty billion dollars one hundred billion dollars, nobody really knows, and it could take five or ten years to get back to the levels of production, back to the high water mark of oil production in Venezuela. So could Chevron do something like that potentially.
Yes.
They spend about twenty billion dollars a year on big investment projects. They have a number of big investment projects in places like Kazakhstan and Angola. They do a lot of energy investing in the United States. Think thanks to fracking, and you know the the energy miracle we've seen in the last ten years in America with fracking, and we owe cheve run a debt of thanks for all the They're.
One of the folks that have helped make fracking possible for America.
So if they're doing a whiteboard and no doubt they've been whiteboarding exercise all weekend. I've been at CSIS when Dan Rundy is one run one of these seminars, and I'm astonished by what kind of factors they have to take into account before they make another dollars worth of investment. What's on their whiteboard Up in northern California where Chevron is, I don't think they've left chat what's on their their whitebo I think.
There's several things.
One would be is what, you know, what they first want to talk to the United States governance say, are we you know, is this something you want to you know that you know, to make sure that they're following the law, and they want to obey the rules of the United States. They always you know, they're they're they're a good citizen, they're a great company. Then they'd want to make sure that if they invested that they weren't going to have their assets nationalized later. What kind of
guarantees are they for that? And what kind of government are we talking about? And then uh, you know, so I think there's any number of different questions like that. I mean, there's a lot of the debt in there's a lot of debt in Venezuela. Some of that debt is associated with the energy business, whether it's to suppliers or whether it's saying hey, please lend please Government of China, lend me some money and I'll use this collateral this
oil well or the assets in this oil field. So they'd want to understand, like, well, if I drill in this oil field, is this is the are the the assets are kind of spoken for? In some loan that they've loaned to China. So there's a whole series of complicated things like.
That, Well, who is going to be driving the day to day bus on this over at the Department of State and at the Central Intelligence Agency? Do you expect that there's a task force and what I'll call normalization of relations with a bad actor regime? That's what we're trying. It's like Libya following the invasion of Iraq. They opened their kimono and then we went and got their WMD and we did a deal and was very secret. Where will that be run out of dan? Who's going to
have the lead? I know Secretary Rubio can't do everything. He's running everything right now, but.
No Secretary Rubio can't do everything.
But I expect this is going to largely fall to the Department of State, but there'll be an inner agency team.
I also think what's important to you is.
I think all of the folks in the Trump administration are cognizant of the experience of Iraq, which I was supportive of the US invasion of Iraq and I supported what President Bush did, But I think that from maybe perhaps in the minority, but I would at this point, but I would say that there were are. I think
many people saw it as a cautionary tale. So I don't think we want to get I think they're they're seeking not They're trying to entice and work with the government that is currently you know, in place, to try and do behavioral change on a number of front stop the drugs, as I said, or rather cooperate with justice, stabilize the country, normalize the energy sector. And so I think part of it is going to be working trying to work with the existing illegitimate government, if we can
put it that way in place. My hope and expectation is that this is a trend. They've been using the word transition, that this is ultimately a transition government, and that over the next period of time, maybe over the next six to twelve months, we either have hopefully new
elections and the good guys win, you know. Ultimately, I think ed Mundo Gonzalez, who's the who should be the rightful president of Venezuela, and Maria Corina Machado, who won the Nobel Peace Prize who should be the rightful vice president of Venezuela, will get a chance to run again, and that we give a chance for the Venezuelan people have real, free and fair elections as a result of what President Trump did over the weekend, and as a result,
we have a government that that's a legitimate government that we can actually work with. That would be my hope. But it's maybe that, maybe six or twelve months down the road.
You mentioned the time, we have to work with this, this these thugs.
You mentioned to me that there are a lot of guns in Venezuela in the hands of a lot.
Of different a lot of guns.
So we don't want to send a bunch of Americans in there with guns because they become targets like they did in the Sunny Triangle after the invasion of Iraq and we weren't ready for it. Do you expect the internal security services there to turn over a leap? Is that the best case scenario that they talked to But they don't want to end up in a Brooklyn jail.
Right exactly.
I think they saw what happened to their head Coppo, and I think they're thinking, hmm, maybe I don't want to get droned, or I don't want to have door kickers come for me in the middle of the night. I do think that's an incentive, and it's it's a way of which to concentrate the mind on behavioral change.
We've heard this over the last several days.
From supporters of the administration, and I'm very supportive what the administration did. I thought this was phenomenal. Is we want to change, have behavioral change with this, admit with this regime, with this, with these really bad actors. Now, do I think we want these people to.
Be in power forever?
No, we want these Ultimately we'd like to see I think we ought to want to see these people go and to have a return to the kind of Venezuela that we had forty years ago, which was a which was a stable, prosperous country and ally of the United States that wasn't exporting chaos and it wasn't exporting drugs.
I'll be right back, Dan Rundy. We turned to Cuba next, and then China. I'm really to run to the side I think today, But don't go anywhere because Rundy actually knows what he's talking about, and that's very rare in media today on the Venezuelan talking as I've seen this weekend.
Stay Tube, Welcome back to America. I'm Hugh Ewett, blessed to have Dan Rundy with me, Senior advisor at the csis one of the Keystone think tanks of Washington, DC, and he's the author of the book The American Imperative, which is really a remarkably excellent book. Dan let's talk about Cuba. Secretary Rubio mentioned it in passing that it's run by semi incoherent ninety three year old Rauel Castro and a current dictator. They get their energy from Venezuela.
Their security services didn't prove to be very good. What does this mean for Cuba?
Okay, So Cuba used to get a lot of substats from the Soviet Union and on the Soviet Union and fell. There was like a ten year period where they didn't get any help from really anybody and they were in deep, deep trouble. Then Chaves showed up and bailed out Cuba for about twenty years. And as time has gone on, because the Chavistas and Maduro folks have mismanaged their economy and driven their economy to the ground, they had less and less to throw free oil to throw.
Around, subsidized oil to throw around, and then with.
Sanctions that the US has imposed, including in especially with the Trump administration, it's been even harder and harder to get a discounted free oil even if there was any to give out from Venezuela to Cuba.
So they they have a broken economy.
Thankfully Fidel Castro is dead, and I think Raoul Castro has also did. It's run by a guy named DS Canal, who's sort of like their chosen thug, you know, communist leader.
They've thisy ideas.
Canal recognized that they're in deep trouble in Cuba economically, they've had a drop in tourists them.
They don't have the kinds of they.
Have a broken, fake failed socialist economy because socialism doesn't work, as you know you and so they have had an ideological and security partnership. So the Cubans provided bodyguards to Maduro. And I think you saw that the Cubans are having two official days of morning because they recognize that our armed forces killed thirty two of their security.
And we've got a yeah you're back, Dan, go ahead.
Yeah, sorry, can you hear me?
Yep? Go ahead, yeah, Just.
That you know that Cuba, Cuba and Venezuela have had and mesh relationship for twenty five years.
Venezuela's ran out of oil to give them.
As Venezuel's ran out of oil to give them, Cubas in deeper and deeper economic trouble because Venezuela was sort of cuba sugar daddy for a long time in Cuba and return provided security and intelligence services to Venezuela. And as you saw the thirty two bodyguards or the security folks from Cuba that were killed by our armed forces because they were protecting Maduro, it says a lot.
So I think hopefully Cuba's on its last legs.
And can you imagine you if in the next twelve months we had some kind of state, we have a stable transition to something a heck a lot better in Venezuela, we have the mulahs leave town in Tehran, and sometime in the next twenty four months, god willing, the bad guys exit stage left in Cuba, all because of the actions of President Trump.
It's amazing.
Now with the embargo that is there, do you expect the United States Navy to maintain it's armada and to continue to attempt to embargo the export of hot oil? From Venezuela.
Certainly.
I mean President Trump is always thinking about leverage, and so you heard Secretary of Ruvio talk about that they're going to continue to you, just as they have the illegitimate leader Maduro and the first Lady, both indicted criminals, basically both indicted subjects. That that's one formal leverage, is to have these two thugs in Brooklyn. To have an embargo on the energy is also another formal leverage that
we have over this illegitimate thug regime. So absolutely, I expect now whether or not that aircraft carry and I know you you and your listeners have become very educated on the navy because of I'm a longtime listener of your show that you know, you've had a lot of naval experts on your show. At some point, the aircraft carrier will probably have to go back into port, I
don't know, sometime maybe in the spring. But we have a lot of military assets in the Caribbean, and we're using assets like their airfields in Puerto Rico, et cetera. And so I think we're going to continue to have all the assets that we need, whether it's an aircraft care or else. Others to to maintain leverage on the on energy. I don't expect us to release that anytime soon because it's a it's it's a form of leverage, and President Trump likes using leverage strategically.
Do you think, Dan, we got thirty seconds and then we'll come back and talk about China that the President will name the equivalent of the fella we sent to you Rock in two thousand and three, whose name is escaping the area grammar right.
Do you expect CTA?
Do you expect one of these sort of super beer?
No?
No, No, I don't because I think I think what they're trying to do is if I can use the term empower the current thus leaders to do the right thing and try to use behavior change.
Dan, buy one more segment coming up, Don't Go Anywhere. Rundy is on tap for one more segment on the view A show, Welcome Back in America. It's my final segment with Dan Rundy, Senior Fellow at the Center for Strategic International Studies in Washington, DC, author of the book
The American Imperative. Dan, it turns out China gets about four to five percent of its oil, a very specific kind of oil from Venezuela and it's refined by independent refiners in China called teapots, and it's used in heavy construction that's now going to stop. What do you expect the Chinese reaction to this to be and what kind of impact will it have on China.
Well, you've got a really thoughtful audience. But I was surprised to hear this, and maybe your audience will be surprised to hear this. I was talking to someone in preparation for this session talking about China, and it occurred to my friend, and I agree with my friend that because kinda sees the world, they're the middle Kingdom.
You know, people have heard that expression that they're the center of the world.
And they sent a delegation of a senior ambassador to visit Maduro. I think like six hours or twelve hours before. There's a photo off of him, you know, receiving this delegation six or twelve hours before. They were still in their beds and they couldn't they couldn't mobilize or do anything during this time. And so I would not be surprised that the Chinese thought the Americans quote unquote did this, especially around a visit of our high level delegation.
Now, I know that sounds.
Crazy, but I can tell you that the way they look at the world and they see themselves as the world of revolves around them, that we somehow.
Did this as a signal to them.
Now, there is some truth to that in the sense that they buy a lot of oil. They buy some oil from Venezuela. The oil from Venezuela is this grungey, dirty crud.
It's hard to process, as you were describing.
And they, you know, they also have lent ton of money to Venezuela, some of it they had hoped that Venezuela might be part of the Belton Road initiative. Your listeners know that China's got this big initiative to build roads and infrastructure all over the world, and instead they've had, they've gotten, They're getting less than buying less oil from Venezuela. The Venezuelans owe them something on the orders of magnitude of something like forty billion dollars.
It's going to be hard for them to pay the Chinese back.
And we were talking earlier in the segment about Okay, under what circumstances will people invest in Venezuela. One of things we've got to sort out is like how much debt does Venezuela currently have and a lot of it's owed to China, And will the current debtors be willing to take what's called a haircut and reduce some of the amount of debt that they have, or instead of paying back the debt in twenty thirty, be willing to pay the debt having them the debt paid back in
twenty fifty so that the amount of payments drops. So China's got a debt problem with Venezuela. China likes wants to buy oil from Venezuela ran in Russia because they don't if they ever wanted to invade Taiwan. They want to have a series of sources of supply that circumvent global sanctions on oil, and so Venezuela is one of their sources of supply that was sort of let's call it semi sanctioned free if you will, if they ever and so losing the Venezuelan oil is a headache for them.
Not getting paid back their debt is a headache for them. And also the fact that they had some Chinese military equipment there that didn't work that well in this recent operation that we saw. So they're embarrassed and they've got some headaches, both economic headaches and they've got some energy headaches as a result of what's happened.
I think that's all to.
The good, because I don't wish the Chinese Communist Party well at all.
What's interesting, Dan, and we'll wrap up on this, is that there are a lot of outcomes from this operation, which is a in and out two and a half hour masterpiece of special operation. And adamal mcgraven was on the program last week. He said, we've been doing special opps for twenty years. We're getting really good at it. He wasn't talking about Venezuela, but he was talking about special ops. That one of the second order effects has
got to be China worried about its supply. But Tehron's got to be worried about Donald Trump threatening them if they start mowing down the centers in the street. Do you think that they take that threat more seriously on this Monday than they did last Friday?
Absolutely.
I mentioned earlier you this concept and foreign policy called de terrence, right resetting to terrence. It basically means like making credible threats. Donald Trump is making credible threats. He has basically said, he says, he says he's going to do something, and then he does it, as opposed to when President Obamas that I'm drawing a line in the
sand and didn't do anything. This resets deterrence, similar with the actions that the United States did with their allies Israel against the thug regime in Iran earlier last last year. So I think absolutely, from just even from five days ago, there's a much more credible threat on the Iranian regime of I and I think, thank goodness, President Trump came out last week and said, if you mess with the protesters on the ground, We're gonna mess with you, thug regime Iran.
I thought that was great.
Compare that the President Obama you where he basically encouraged protesters but then didn't protect them and didn't do anything.
And so I think President Trump has been.
Willing to to step forward and say I'm willing to protect the protesters was a phenomenal act. And what happened in Venezuela makes it very very clear that he's he's willing to back up those words with force, and thank goodness, he's willing to do so.
Now, last question, Dan, should we be willing to spend American dollars to help Venezuela stand up a stable government transition and then uh, free and fair elections in a free market. Should we be willing to invest if the bad guys realize that the clock is ticking like it ran out of time from Maduro and they want to work with us, ought we to spend American dollars there, not soldiers, but dollars.
Yeah. I think this is a great question you.
I think there's a belief that there's a lot The largest amount of oil reserves in the world are in Venezuela. The largest amount of gold reserves in the world are in Venezuela. Now, assuming they haven't been pillaged and been able to kind of get a real sense of what's going on or how much that's been spoken for with you know, borrowing money against it, et cetera. There's a lot of resources Venezuela and theory should be a rich country.
So I do think certainly we should be, at least on a lending basis, be willing to provide some money on the front end to say we're going to help get you back on your.
Feet and lend you some money to do so.
I think President Trump is right to say we should be we should participate in the upside of a prosperous Venezuela. That American workers in the American companies should be at the front of the line since we've just helped given them a new opportunity. They got the best shot in twenty five years. President Trump is providing the best shot in twenty five years for Venezuela.
That is that is a wonderful way to conclude, Dan Rundy, are you nde? I hope you write this up for people other than talking heads like me, so that every American can read that. It's great to have an expert on hand who's willing to spend an hour with me. Thank you, Dan Rundy. His book is the American Imperative. It's imperative that you get and read that if you don't understand what's going on in the world. State ture folks.
So many people I know are disheartened that our country seems to have forgotten the importance of citizens and they wonder how a strong sense of citizenship might be revived. And so my friends at Hillsdale College have produced a free online course on the topic American Citizenship and Its Decline, taught by historian Victor Davis Hansen. The course traces the history of citizenship and explains how it is undermined in America today by open borders, by identity politics, by the
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is back, Vic Maddis, Happy New Year to you. I was your New Year's Eve party.
Happy to do you to you, Hugh. It was a great party.
I did make that picture of Manhattan's that I mentioned on your show previously. That would be forty ounces of bourbon and twenty ounces of vermouth, sixty ounces.
Good to the last drop.
Oh the words of Teddy Roosevelt, all gone, Oh God, the night now, Vic, I got to say about the last episode of Getting Hammered, I was a little bit disappointed at the fact that you were mocking the pop Tarts bowl.
And I myself have never had a pop tart, not one, not in all of my years on this planet. But I still think they're a staple of many homes. Right, Yeah, that's correct. I mean it's something, well, at least when I was a high schooler.
You're on the go.
You know, you're usually crashing on something, you know, homework that you haven't done, a paper that's due, and you know your mom is probably busy doing other things. Maybe she's making a lunch for you or not, who knows, but you don't have time to sit down for full breakfast. Sometimes you got to get on the road. You got to get in your car and get the school. Grab the pop tart, pop it in the toaster.
It's good to go.
That's what leads me to mister and missus Maduro, who've had a change in circumstance. Whether or not they like pop tarts doesn't really matter anymore. What do you think? What do you think he's thinking in his Brooklyn cell right now? I don't know.
Maybe he's thinking what.
Would Manuel Noriega do at a time like this, you know, I mean, this is what everybody's thinking. They're channeling back to the Manuel Noriego's you know, the collapse of his regime and his takedown which took several days from for the US military for that exfiltration operation. And I think Noriega did spend about seventeen years in a US prison before being sent out to I think France.
And and Panama. I don't know if he can get out of this.
On the other hand, he might be hopeful that they have a very old judge who is very quirky in his ways, and maybe he might throw a wrench in this whole operation. He is maybe hoping that the Trump administration gets caught up in the fervor and forgets something on the final you know, on the dotted line to fill out properly, and he can get somehow released. But
I don't think that's going to happen. I think there's mounds of evidence that have been compiled since the twenty twenty indictment in the Southern District of New York, the narco terrorism, the drug trafficking. There's a lot to connect him to and he has to worry about that. He'll get his legal representation. This is the United States of America, after all. But if I were him, I would not be thinking I'd be heading back home any time I'm soon, nor would I think would he be wanted back home.
Well, I got to ask you, Vic, I'm a little bit surprised that the a District court judge in the Northern District of California has not yet ordered his return to Venezuela, as they have done with a bregup. Right, there got to be a district court that will, you know, direct the Trump administration to reverse what they've done Somewhere. It won't stand, but someone will do it.
What is the ACLU doing at this moment and where are they filing in a state or a city that's sympathetic to their cause and to leftist causes. This is how they've been able to, you know, obstruct the Trump administration every step of the way, even going up to the Supreme Court when it came to things like tariffs.
So don't we.
Should have jinx at Hugh? I mean, will hold our breath now? I think you know there's still tomorrow.
I think it makes every American abroad, whether in uniform or not, safer. I think that every single America and benefits from what happened on Saturday. Do you agree with me?
Yes, whether or not they like to admit it.
We're talking about the reduction of fentanyl entering into the United States. A lot of people, you know, have died because of the fentanyl overdoses, and it's coming out of Venezuela largely. Maybe a lot of listeners know people personally. I certainly do people who have died from fentanyl overdoses. It is a terrible thing, and you're looking at a reduction already in a drug overdose opioid deaths in twenty
twenty four. That trend will probably continue, and it's not unrelated to the drop in both illegal immigration across the southern border and of course what's happening in Venezuela.
Now I am surprised, I really have to say, I am surprised by the number of people who've gone on the air to pronounce that it was illegal and that Congress needed to be known it wasn't illegal, and Congress didn't. Senator Cotton was just on the air with a saying he's perfectly satisfied with the Collie got at three thirty in the morning on Saturday from Secretary of Rubio, who used to have the job that Senat Cotton has now chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee. What do you think
of these people? Do they just reflectively because Trump didn't have to be against it.
That's part of it, Hugh, definitely.
For example, when the Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy said that people should dress better on airplanes, just to stick it to Trump, people just even slobbier than they already do.
So that was one thing.
If Trump says water and air good for you, they're going to do everything in the power.
To say it's bad for you.
So that's one part of it, and the other part is something that Mark Halpern had said recently, which is, say what you will about Trump arrangement syndrome. One of
the things that causes is amnesia. And so suddenly people do people to forget about Obama droning an American citizen he didn't, you know, get a charge with a warrant for that, and certainly going back to let's say Bill Clinton, you know, and launching strikes in Serbia, or our involvement with boots on the ground in Somalia, so suddenly those things are forgotten or they'll say that these are very terrible precedents, including Panama, that were you know, having to abide by.
But the fact is there are precedents.
Lots of president and that brings me finally to Chuck Schumer and Democrats. Does any Democrat other than John Fetterman, have you seen one come out and say, good for the good old USA? Then zeelans deserve freedom, free frequent and fair elections, and free markets. Have you seen any Democrats say that?
No, they seem to be in lockstep, as you were mentioning, with the exception of the Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman, who's on Fox this morning talking in fact about how you have to, you know, give credit to where it's due, regardless of the president, regardless of how you feel about President Trump, having him.
Removed is a good thing.
And there are for example, James Homan had an editorial in the Washington Post saying this is a good thing, and of course their readers went ballistic over that position because again, if Trump did it, it has to be bad.
But they don't realize.
That if they take a step back at how foolish that makes them look. And there are Venezuelans who are saying, have you talked to us people in Durrel, You know, not the protesters in New York, but the people at Venezuela and here in this country, they are happy.
Yeah. I think Florida got reader over the weekend, very very much. Lots of Venezuelans in Florida who had to go there because of the tyranny of Nicholas maduro Vic. Madis good to talk to. You follow him on ex Victoryina Madis, go and like and subscribe to getting hammered that he and Mary Catherine Ham bring you at least cleekly and stay tuned w right back on the UUs Show