Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College, All Things Hillsdale Hillsdale dot ed or. I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there, and of course I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue all of them at HU for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple, iTunes and Hillsdale So America.
I asked promise.
I'm joined by Kareem Sajafor of the Carnegie Endowment. Kareem is one of the belt Ways genuine experts on the Islamic Republic of Iran, and he has been tutoring me for at least a decade. A mutual friend introduced us over dinner when I moved back to Washington in twenty sixteen. Had the occasion since then to get up meet with him a couple of times and dig deep into the Islamic Republic.
And boy, you're in demand right now. Kareem.
First of all, it's good to see you. Thank you for doing this. I know how busy you must be right now. Is the phone just ringing constantly off the hook?
It is indeed a very busy time, and I appreciate you inviting me.
Back to well welcome back.
Can we start by alerting the audience telling me background. You went to the University of Michigan. We're going to overlook that here at Ohio State Headquarters. But tell them your background and how you came to specialize and all things here on.
Sure.
So, I was born in the United States, but my parents were originally from Iran.
They immigrated to the United States.
Most Iranian families in the United States came here nineteen seventy nine or shortly thereafter when they were nineteen seventy nine revolution happened, but my parents had immigrated to the United States a decade prior to that, and so my father was a neurologist. We grew up mostly in Michigan. I went to University of Michigan and Arbor. I played soccer. The first person I met in freshman orientation was Tom Brady friendship, which in hindsight, I should have cultivated. And
you know I lived. I grew up speaking Persian in our kitchen. I call it kitchen Persian. I wasn't formally schooled in it, but I grew up with English in Persian, and then I spent several years living abroad in college and even in high school, I spent a year living in Mexico. I lived in college in Italy. I wasn't really interested in the Middle East until I felt that
things started to change in your own politically. It looked like there was a political opening in the late nineteen nineties, and so I started to I went to After undergrad, I went to graduate school at the Johns Hopkins School of Advance International Studies. I focused on the Middle East, and the first week of my grad school, nine to eleven happened, and so that was when it was obviously very clear to me that I wanted to dedicate my
career to this topic. And Hewett, had you asked me in two thousand and one whether the running regime would look the way it does today, I would have said, no, it looked like your own even back then was a country which was on the CUSCOP change. And so I was based in Tehran with an organization called the International Crisis Group.
I was based there for several.
Years until I was nearly imprisoned. I was one of the first of the dual nationals that they warned, you know, I came back to the United States, and I hated that warning. I didn't go back to your own. But many of my friends, perhaps more than a dozen, tried to go back to your own and they spent time in prison.
And so for the last two.
Decades now, I've I've been focused on Iran at the Carnegie Down for International Peace. I'm a contributing writer at The Atlantic, and I teach at Georgetown University.
So grim I've told my audience many times, I watched the Iranian Revolution unfold on a couch in the Western White House with exiled Richard Nixon and Ray Price. We were the writers. The former president was doing the book The Real War, and we'd watch every afternoon because the news would come on three hours earlier, and we saw the revolution unfold in real time. Where were you when the revolution unfolded?
So I was a young boy.
I was born late nineteen seventy six, so I was just about two years old when the revolution was happening in the state of Michigan. And you know, it obviously impacted our lives in different ways. So much of our extended family had to flee Iran. All of them had ben and Iran, and our home in Michigan was kind of the safe harbor for many of them. So they fled Iran and they would come to stay with us and Michigan for period until they were able to kind
of resettle elsewhere. And I think in my parents said they probably thought maybe the one day they would go back to Iran. But then when the revolution happened, you know, we stayed in the United States, and my father was someone who he was a neurologist, but he was someone who we loved the United States, deeply patriotic American, but he also loved his heritage and his culture.
That duality was very much part of our.
Childhood that we used to always tell us, you know, you guys live in the best country in the world, in the United States. But he was so proud of his heritage and Persian poetry and culture, which is so rich because it's you know, it's got twenty five hundred plus years of history.
I've only had one other diaspora member on that hadn't been Talablue from FDD.
I neglected to.
Ask him how varied is the Iranian diaspora, Does the regime have any supporters within it, and has it become increasingly militant about making a change in Iran?
The regime has virtually no support among the certainly the diaspora in the United States.
When polling is done, I think you.
Probably see less than one percent support because if you're a supporter of the regime, you know want you live in Iran, you don't want to be in the United States. And I think for many years there's been not really a diversity of opinion when it comes to people's desired endgame in Iran.
Among the dads for Ironians, even.
Outside the United States, I would say, vast, vast majority of your Oroonians want to see some form of secular democracy.
I think the debates have been.
About the means to get there, and whether, for example, economic sanctions is a viable or useful tool to try to reach that end of secular democracy, whether military action is a means that people would accept to get to that endgame.
And obviously the.
Last month the events in Iran, I think have really altered that debate. Whereas one month ago, two months ago, probably those who supported some type of US military action inside Iran were in the minority, I would argue now, and I haven't seen polling, so I'm not This isn't scientific, but just anecdotal. My guess is that the majority of those who are in the diaspora would like to see
President Trump make good on his work. President Trump threatened on eight occasions that if you're on killed protesters, the United States was ready to protect them and take action. And obviously the Runan regime drove a giant truck through President Trump's redline. They killed as many as thirty thousand protesters. And so I think both with an Iran among the protesters and in the diaspora, I would say there's probably a majority consensus, a majority support for some type of US action.
Kareem, Were you shocked by the level of barbarity that the regime employed in the last three weeks. I was one of those eight occasions where the President said help is on the way. Cape Marching takeover. He was very adamant that we are going to help. So I think we are going to help. But were you shocked by the level to which violence they descended. It's just Bobby are nineteen forty one match part thirty three thousand Jews
in Ukraine by the advancing Nazis. There hasn't been anything like this since that.
You know.
Unfortunately, Hugh, I wasn't terribly shocked by the brutality of the regime because at the end of the day, this is a regime which has no friends in the world. They have no great plan b. So, in contrast to the SHAW, who didn't want to use a lot of violence against people to stay in power, and both the SHAW and all of its political and military elites, many of them were educated in the United States and Europe. They spoke foreign languages and so they could remake their
lives and Los Angeles or London. But the elites of the Islamic Republic and Natola Harmony himself have provincial backgrounds. They are not people who are are worldly. This is a regime which is virtually friendless. You know, it's long time allies, like I said, regime in Syria, Maduro government in Venezuela. Those guys have been deposed or they're out. They have partnerships with countries like China and Russia, but those are not secure partnerships, and so for that reason,
they have a killer be killed mentality. And unfortunately, I wasn't terribly surprised that they were willing to employ that kind of brutality to stay in power, because you know what I say about this regime, and iula homony in particular is that they're homicidal, but they're not suicidal. What's paramount for them is to stay in power, and so that applies here when I don't want to preempt your questions, but you know, as they're facing potentially existential threat from the United States right.
Now a minute and a half to break correct, what are the spectrum of collapses underway for the people who are actually living there. They're not part of the regime. They're Persian, they're running just trying to get along. What do they con with right now? One minute?
So this is a regime which is politically, economically, and socially authoritarian. Every aspects of people's lives are disrupted because they're living under a totalitarian dictatorship that polices their personal lives. There's routine power outages, water shortages, and I think people
are just so exhausted from this reality. Is the most sanctioned country in the world, and I think people are desperate for a transition from an ideological regime to a nation state, the government that prioritizes economic and national.
Interests before revolutionary ideology.
I will be right back with Kurama Japur of the Carnegie Endowment right after these messages Police State, welcome back in America. I'm Hugh you at Kareem zad Japur is the equal of any Iranian analysts in the United States. He is, of course, very very much in demand right now, and I thank him for making time for the program today on the Sale News channel on the Salem Radio Network.
Kareem can the regime? Is it possible it would just collapse without outside pressure in the Pharma military force given the spectrum of failure as we talked about, you.
Know, anything is possible with these dictatorships here.
There's an old line.
That all dictatorships look good until the last five minutes. Any of these authoritarian regimes that look so strong before, you know, collapse fairly abruptly. So it's my view that even if the United States doesn't take military action, this is a regime which is this current status quo in Iran is not tenable.
So there's one hundred and fifty thousand members of the Iranian Revolutionary guardcore, tens of thousands more in the besiege. They're paramilitary, para police thugs. What about the Iranian military it's ordinary military. Is it radicalized as well, or is it a military military like the American military.
So the military is a conscript military, so it reflects the Iranian society. I have one kind of personal anecdote about that. Years ago, when I was living in Tehran, I went with a group of friends to the Caspian Sea and I saw there was some military folks from the regular army conscript army who were just kind of walking down walking along the shore of the Caspian Sea.
And I initially kind of.
You know, when you see military folks, especially revolutionary guards and passiege and you're on especially back then, you would freeze and hesitate a little bit. And my friends kind of continued as they were, including a young woman who wasn't properly covering her hair, and I looked at them and they said, no, don't worry about it. These guys are These guys are for the money that one of us,
you know, from the army. The way there is lonal Republic has managed the regular army is that obviously the top commanders have been hand picked by the regime, so up until now they've always been loyal. But the body of that military are reflective of Iranian society at large, and I would suspect for the most part, deeply unsatisfied with the status quo, deeply unsatisfied with their lives.
So that takes me to my question about if there is a military action, what should the United States target and what shouldn't they target? And I'll follow naturally should they leave the regular Iranian military alone?
Listen, I don't want to pretend to like I'm a military expert, and I obviously haven't. What we've learned from so many of US military actions over the last two decades in the Middle East, including in the Iraq and Afghanistan, so much of it is the execution, and to our credit, to our military's credit, they've done in an exceptionally good job, oftentimes with execution.
But on first the question of.
Whether to target the regular army, it would seem to me that would be a bad idea because, as I mentioned, this is a conscript army for the most part and reflective Iranian society, and you don't want anarchy, you don't want total disorder. We saw what happened in Iraq when the Bathist army was disbanded, and I think everyone fears that possibility of anarchy. So I think you would want the regular army to remain intact.
Would you want if the United States strikes, what would you like them to strike in what order? I know you're not a military expert, but everybody is talking about this. Adaal Montgomery gave me a very long target list yesterday. But you're the fellow who studies the country. What do you think might bring regime collapse closer?
So let me say a couple of things here.
One is that one of the things I would have liked to have seen happened already in fact early days and the protests would have been to lift this iron iron curtain that the regime has subjected people to. They've cut off Internet, satellite connections, they've cut out cellular connections, and connectivity of the country has been about one percent,
So they've slaughtered people in the dark. So to the extent we have capabilities, whether it's kinetic or cyber capabilities, to tear down that digital.
Iron wall, that might be, that's very very important.
Even if that means, for example, because the regime has their own intranet, their state television is functioning okay, their officials are doing TV interviews broadcast to the United States, and so in some ways, you know, one one option is to take out their Internet systems, so then they have to plug into to to the system that everyone else uses. So that that's one thing that I would
have liked to have seen happen already. Second is, uh, you know, the organs of repression in youron whether that's a command and could roll out posts of the revolutionary Guards. I think that there's Raelis will certainly want to target their their their missile stock well, because Iran is a country which you really can't control its own skies right now, and you would want to prevent them from from replenishing
their missile capacity. Then we start to get into much more sensitive questions and obviously the most sense of the one arguably, I think that the current the Trump administration is probably debating as we speak, is whether to target
the Supreme Leader. And you know, I've spoken to folks who served and the first Trump administration who are still close to this one, who believed that if military action is taken, they are likely to target the Supreme Leader eighty six year old al Alia comedy the Only Notes of Caution, And you I think that you know, I don't want to claim to speak for people inside Iran, but I think most protesters, those who took to the streets again the regime, welcome some kind of military action.
The only note of caution I'd make coquere is that we know historically that when authoritarian regimes collapse or when they transition, about four out of five times they unfortunately don't transition to democracy.
About four out of five.
Times they transfer, they transition to another form of authoritarian regime. Soviet Union is a good example of that. We went from Soviet Union to Putin's Russia. The Iran in nineteen seventy nine is a good example of that. We went from the shaw to the Islamic Republic. So I'm not making the argument that military action can transition Iran to Denmark.
But I think what people want to see, as I suggested from the asset, they want to see a government that is a national government that puts the economic and national interests of the nation first, not death to America and death to Israel. They want to an government whose ethos is long livey wrong.
So, Sadia Poor, where do you place the probability now of a military strike by the United States on Iran, And do you have any fear that Iran will take a first preemptive strike on, for example, Israel in the Gulf oil fields, in the GCC countries.
No, I'm skeptical that they will try to take preemptive action because, as I said, this is a regime which is homicidal, not suicidal.
And right now the.
United States has convened some of the most elite facets of the American military, whether that's warships or fighter jets, and I'm skeptical that they will want to.
Test President Trump. Given President Trump's history.
With your own you have to remember you, and you remember it better than anyone. Twenty eighteen, Trump pulled out of the nuclear deal. Twenty twenty, assassinated busts some Sulaimani, you're on some military commander. Last summer, he dropped bunker busters on Iran's nuclear program.
In each of these cases, people feared that it could be World War three.
And in each of these cases, I think President Trump feels that his decisions were vindicated. So I don't think he fears Iran, especially now that they don't control their own skies. He thinks they're a paper tiger. So I would argue that the likelihood of him acting again, I would say is perhaps six seven out of ten.
I'll be right back with Kareem zadupor don't go anywhere America. Very rare you get an expert like this, So listen very closely to what he has to say.
He stay tuned to the Huhwit Show. Welcome back in America.
I'm Hugh Hewitt spending this hour with Kareem Masajapoor.
He's the first generation of American.
His parents emigrated from Iran ten years before the revolution, and he knows the diaspora, and he studies this at the Carnegie Endowment. He's much in demand right now, and I appreciate the time Kareem.
Iran only hard tarreancy comes from oil.
It is exported from cars Island and from two other oil terminals. There's a debate among people that I read and listen to as to whether or not the United States and its allies ought to target those facilities in order to impoverish the IRGC and the Ayatola and his cronies.
What do you think.
My sense here is, and if the President has alluded to this, that the kind of template or strategy they have in mind is similar to the Venezuela playbook, which was essentially economic stranglehold, and you know, going after oil exports, going up to these ghost fleets of oil ships. And my sense is that that is a more likely outcome than going after bombing Iranian oil installations or refiners, which you know, could cause real economic devastation to the population.
But obviously in the Venezeul strategy that that strategy of you know, economic stranglehold was a prelude to what became a political decapitation. And I do think that, you know, based on what the president is said publicly about it. I told a homony, calling him a sick man. I told it, Homedy. We know from from you know, FBI statements that Iran has been trying to assassinate President Trump
during the ten uere of President Biden. And so, you know, my sense is that you will see more likely this kind of major economic stranglehold and the.
Hopes that that will lead to.
Either Iran capitulating or some kind of action to force political change in your.
Own now, kareem, after thirty to forty thousand people have been mowed down in the streets and the becasion. Revolutionary guard are going to the hospitals and shooting people and the bodies are left on the sidewalk with little we have.
Is horrific. That's gotten out.
What the can Is it even fair to expect the Iranian straight to rise up a second time after that kind of a devastating blow from the regime.
It's not likely in the immediate term, because people are in retreat, you know, they're just in shock. And as I mentioned from the outset, their communication ability is very limited, given how the regime has throddled the internet and satellite television and cellul their communication, and so I think they're
in retreat. But as I point out to people here, the nineteen seventy nine revolution was a thirteen month process and essentially began in January seventy eight, and Jomini didn't arrive in Tehran until February nineteen seventy nine, and so we're only really one month into this process. And it's it's strongly my view that whatever the United States chooses to do, Iran is a country on the cusp of some kind of transformation, because, as I said, not only
the society has realized, but even within the regime. They've realized that this status quo is not tenable.
Krim, How are they even eating that commerce in and out of the country is down to nothing, The real is worth nothing. I don't know what the farmers are doing. Why are the reports you're able to get on the quality of life for the average lower to low class individual in terms of income?
It must be horrific.
It is horrific because the middle class has been totally decimated. The currency has been totally decimated, and it's there's no rock bottom. It keeps sinking. I'm sure others have pointed out, and you show that the Iranian currency visa VI the US dollar has depreciated something like ninety nine point nine percent from nineteen seventy nine to the present. So people are scraping to get by. And what we oftentimes see, Hugh,
is only what's happening in Tehran. But you know, perhaps only a quarter or so of the runnings live in the capitol, and I think both the economic devastation and the brutality is much greater in the places that we don't see with the same frequency as we see Tehran.
Last question before this break, and then one more question. Do the people believe any of the theology that the Iatolas put forward Koreem or have they just view it as words.
You know.
I think it's very similar to late eighties Soviet Union, in which not only within the society but within the regime, you have very few true believers left.
In the system.
In fact, a friend of mine who was a professor in Tehron said, at the beginning of the revolution, the regime was eighty percent idiologues and twenty percent Charlatans, and now it's the reverse. Only perhaps even within the regime only twenty percent true believers. So in society, I would say it's even less to that.
I'll be back with one more segment with Kareem Sajapur. You can follow them on actually at k Sajipur, and you can read them in the Atlantic. You've got a great new piece in the current Atlantic as well as at the Karnegie Endowment. Stay tuned, Welcome back in America.
I'm hughe Hewett.
I wanted to save the most delicate issue for the last Kareem, which is the role of Israel in anycoming conflict between the United States and Iran National Security advisor the equivalent of National Security advisor in Iran said, if there's any conflict with the United States, we're throwing everything we got at Israel. What do you expect their role to be? What do you want their role to be? Does their participation make it more or less difficult to topple the regime?
Well, Israel obviously showed over the last couple of years that militarily they're far superior to Iran, even though Iran is seventy five times larger as a nation state.
And so it was Israel which paved.
The way for the United States to take action because they took out Iran's air defenses. And going back to what I said earlier, Hugh about restoring connectivity in Iran, you know, if Israel, which has a very sophisticated cyber capability, but Israel was able to help restore connectivity within Iran, I think it's something that would be greatly appreciated.
But they have.
Because they're within missile range of Iran and it's a much smaller country, things are much more delicate for them. And so that's why that's among the many reasons why you have a huge US presence now in the region and everyone is on alert because ultimately Iranian missiles are not going to reach the US home land, but they could indeed go after Israel and cause some real damage.
So kareem to wrap everybody in DC talks to you about this. So I'm just curious, off the record, what did the other countries in the region not named Israel in the United States, Key, Saudi Arabia, the United Ara memorates got her. What do they want to see happen? Do they want this regime to stay there? It seems like it's an endless source of woes for a region that ought to be booming.
You know, I think the only country, major country in the world which benefits from keeping the is Lomar Republic iround is Russia because as long as Iran is isolated, it can't exploit its vast natural gas and oil reserves. It doesn't compete with Russia as it should in global energy markets. It's a thorn in the society of the United States. It can't compete with Russia and its historic
sphere of influence Central Asia. Obviously, you know, smaller countries like North Korea like to keep it around as well, but the regional countries, I don't think any of them like the status quo of a country on their border that is so deeply ideological and destabilizing. But a lot
of them, for various reasons, worry about conflict. They worry that they be retaliated against in the case of our golf partners in said Arabia and the UE, the country like Turkey worries about chaos that could spill over refugees into their territory. So everyone is watching this very carefully.
But I think most of those regional countries, if they could push a button and have a clean transition to a nationalist government in Iran rather than an ideological government in Iran, I think the vast majority of them would do that.
And is there any worry on your part that Iran is play sleeper shelves In the United States? They sent people to assassinate people here before. They've tried to kill President Trump. We know that, But what about a widespread has the law or related network.
Have you got concerns there?
I'm not too worried about that in the United States. In Europe they have carried out operations and usually here it's not Iranian nationals that are doing that. They pay European Russian criminal gangs or Pakistan any radicals to carry
out these activities. So that is, you know, certainly a possibility, but at the moment, you know, I think that given how the news is tightening around their neck, and as you mentioned from the outset, even the Europeans that prescribe them their Revolutionary Guards as a terrorist organization, I don't think the first instinct is to want to create even more problems for themselves.
Very last question, what is the ceiling? We know it's hit rock bottom and they keep digging a hole into which they can fall off the floor. What's the ceiling for Iran if they were run by even a minimally competent nationalist government.
That's a wonderful question, and it is something which I think is obviously in the US national interest. Kissinger once said there are few nations in the world with whom in the United States, and the United States has more common interests and less reason to world than Iran. And it's my view that given Iran's enormous human capital, it's enormous natural resources, it's rich history, this should be a G twenty nation. It should be you know, Saudi Arabia, Turkey,
ar G twenty nations. Iran should be in that category. You know, in nineteen seventy eight q Iran's GDP was are on the same level as Spain in South Korea. You see where those countries are now and where Iran is now, and it just shows you what a profound difference leadership makes. And I do believe that this country, once it has proper leadership, it could have one of the highest growth rates in the coming years.
And I have bonus question does the United Nations contribute anything to Iran? Are they are they protecting world historic sites? Are they doing any kind of relief? Have they been any help at all in Iran?
Not terribly when it comes to the politics. You know, Uron used to have a large Afghan refugee presence and so United Nations UNHCR was helpful there. And I do want to give a shout out to the new head of UNHCR, the former president of Rock But I'msali was
a brilliant and wonderful guy. But to your question, National Geographic Magazine once called Iran the world's first superpower, and so there are enormous, amazing historic sites in Iran and it will be hopefully one day soon a great destination for Western and American tourists.
I hope you are right, Kareem Sajipor. Thank you for joining me for this extended period of time. I'll continue to read and follow you on axtly. You can do that, by the way, America at k Sajipor you cannot miss it. And his new article in the Atlantic is not to be missed as well. One of those experts that you can really trust on everything having to do with Iran. Thank you, Kareem. Welcome back in America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Lucas Tomlinson is one of the best war correspondents I know.
You go abroad wherever Fox News send him. Seen him a lot in Israel. Recently, though, I was on this and he beamed in from Greenland, and I thought to myself, I've never had a guest from Greenland before. He's back, Lucas, welcome to the u UH Show. When were you in Greenland and what did you find out when you were there?
Well, Hugh, thanks for having me. I just got back last night. I spent a week on the ground in Greenland when things were getting a little serious about people thinking that President Trump might use military means to take Greenland. Of course, At the World Economic Forum in Davos, President Trump walked that back, said he has no intention of using force, but the Danish government to controls Greenland, they
were a little nervous about it. You know, they spend about six hundred million dollars a year on Greenland territory that they have possessed. It's been in the Danish realm since the eighteenth century. Boat's notable Hugh Denmark has a population of just six million people. That's about twice the population of Brooklyn. To control an area of Greenland that is three times the size of Texas, he had a pop elation that could fit into the seats of any
NFL stadium, just fifty seven thousand people. It's very strategic. You've been hearing President Trump many others talk about the importance of the Arctic. The President wants to deploy the Golden Dome there. As you know right now, US missile defense it's pretty limited. Just forty four interceptors in Fork Greally, Alaska, and just four interceptor missiles Vanderberg Space four space in Santa Barbara, California. Maybe not far from where you are
right now. That's just an intercept a rogue ballistic missile from Iran or North Korea. There's no system in place to be able to handle a large scale nuclear missiles straight from Russia China. Also, what missile defense experts tell me with Golden Dome is that other targets would be in play, hypersonic missiles, drones, cruise missiles. That is why
President Trump wants to deploy the Golden Dome there. Of course, when you're at the top of the Earth above the Arctic Circle, it's two thirds of Greenland is it's a much shorter distance from Russia and to any targets in the United States. So that's why President Trump thinks Greenland is so important and why he wants to expand the
US military presidence there. Today, there's less than two hundred troops at one single US Space Force space in Patufic that was about nine or and thirty miles north of the capital of Nuke where I was. It's the same distance from la to Seattle View.
Now, Lucas you were in Greenland for a week, I assume you got to talk to a lot of the native Greenland theres more than ninety percent of Greenlanders are anyway, What do.
They think about that?
I'm sure you probably talked all fifty seven thousand in a week.
What do they think about this?
A lot of the Inuits, the natives, even many of the Danes I spoke to Hugh, they just want to be left alone. Now, a majority of Greenlanders, Greenlanders as they refer to themselves, they want to be left alone. They do want to be independent, though they are not wild about you know the Danes who they live under. You know the Danes. You know, it's a welfare state. They spend about six hundred million dollars US a year for Greenland to take care of the education, uh, you know,
police hospitals. It's about twenty percent of their GDP comes from Denmark. But many of the people I spoke to not only they want to be independent, they really want to be left alone.
There.
They were not used to the media attention, as you can imagine. They're really it's a a territory of hunters and gatherers. I mean they hunt polar bear seals. You know, muskox might have to google that one, and.
I have no idea what that is.
It's a giant ox, big hairy beast in essence, and I actually enjoyed some reindeer meat muskos. I ate raw seal liver at a market.
If you're wondering, as he correspondent, look, by the way, do they have a costco?
No costco in Greenland?
How about job.
No trader Joe's. I'm not going to local little grocery stores of the whale. I had a little bit of whale the norwall, a popular delicacy up there to you.
Yeah, you don't want to be around when a narwal comes through the ice. Tell me, look at at least I read. That's what I read an endurance, the book about a Shackles Shackleton. Yeah, tell me about how you were received your big time. I don't know if they get cable. I don't know if they watch Fox News. They've seen you in Israel when the bombs are coming down? Did they know who you are?
Do they watch Fox News?
Some dude?
But I was notable that when the Greenland's Prime minister held a press conference, he was almost doing the Joe Biden routine. He was going down a prepared list. I noticed CNN got the first question and then he was going on and on down his list. I'm like, wait a minute, I traveled all the way here from Washington. I'm getting a question at this press conference. I moved my seat and he looked up at one point and called to me, which was very nice. I saw I
could ask him if you would welcome who white? Question should welcome a great Yeah? My question was, would you welcome a greater with the military presence in Greenland? Would you welcome the Golden Dome? As you can imagine. A very diplomatic answer, he said, it's discussions he'd love to have. He didn't rule it out. You know, it's notable. A nineteen fifty one treaty between then President Truman and Denmark says, you know, the US military can have a presence, there's
no limit on that. At the height of the Cold War Queue there were ten thousand US troops stationed in Greenland. And I don't know if you ever heard of Project Ice Swarm, but it was a plan to bury thousands of nuclear missiles under the ice in Greenland. It was never completed, but it was worked on for years.
That's doctor Strange love stuff tell me.
Is the military base that has ten thousand people still got the barracks that they still have the infrastructure or all the pipes frozen and burst.
Pipes frozen in burst. There's ten thousand troops. At the height of the Cold War was spread out over seventeen bases. Today Q there's just one. It's that Betuf Space Force Space in the far north, the high north of Greenland.
How many how many towns of size do they have? Lucas and I consider a town to be five thousand to ten thousand people.
Just a handful nuke is about thirty thousand residents. About half the territory lives in the capital. They refer to settlements as anything, you know, eight hundred and fifty or less. They have dozens of those, but they do not have many big cities. You can imagine. In fact, some of the settlements to the north they're only supplied, you know, a few times a year. And you can imagine anything even coming into the capital has to come aboard ship. Very little come from the.
Air, of course.
Looks, have you packed your bags for israel I?
Have you know?
I told my boss, my bureau chief, that I'm ready to deploy to the Middle East. He goes, why don't you get back from Greenland first? And then we'll talk.
But would it just be Israel or would you possibly go to uae Bahrain cut her. Do you have any idea where you'd be.
I would prefer, you know, Israel would be great, of course, I would prefer to the Middle East, because if we do see action in Iran and the government where to break down, it might be a good time to get into the country.
I'm glad you're a young man. Might be a good time to be careful of.
Lucas Tomlinson, you're a friend and it's you're very kind to come on and give.
Us the first person report from Greenland.
Lucas Tomlinson, you can find him on X I think if Lucas Fox News on X.
Thank you, Lucas. I'll be right back in America State Tune.
I'm glad to kick it off with former United States Senator Jim Talent. He represented the state of Missouri. He's now a senior Fellow at the Reagan Institute for the Study of Peace through Strength. Senator Talent, we were talking off there about Admiral Montgomery yesterday, who was fabulous. But you're you've been in the defense business as long as he has. Do you think we are on the cusp of a very violent war.
Well, I wouldn't call him. I mean all war is violent. I think I think we're we're on the cusp of a campaign that will be a much more campaign sustained campaign than we had to do to take out their nuclear arsenal.
I heard Mark.
Say ten to twelve days, which to me seems about right, because there's two objectives here.
The first is to enforce.
Our red line and thereby enhance our credibility in the Middle East and around the world. President's going to do that beyond a shadow of it out. The second is to further degrade Iran's ability to aggress against its neighbors and destabilize the region, which is against our national interest. Again, if you read the national security strategy, so the logical thing to take out is their missile capabilities and the anti air systems that protect them to the extent those
are still left. And in order to do that job, well, it takes a lot of soorties.
You're not going to do that today.
So one interesting question which Mark talked about is whether the Israelis are going to join in. I would love to be a fly on the wall when Trump is talking with Netniew about that.
What do you think the preference of the president is. I think he would prefer that they not, But I don't think he's going to hold him back if one missile is shot at.
Them, right.
Look you well, with regard to the Israelis, it's a complicated question. I mean because Israel has moved from a containment policy in the region to a preemption policy in the region, and Netyaho has been very, very decisive about doing that, and I think he's got the Israeli people behind him, so the Israelis can send the message here too. I mean, in the past they've tried to do hands off on this sort of thing because they felt more vulnerable in the region. If he joins in, I think
it's a good way of sending the message. Look, we're the hedge amount of the region and we're going to act like it when our security is at stake. So I think they ought to do it. I think Admiral Montgomery was right go ahead and join in.
I was with a client back in my law practice days in Nevada, big swinger, Jewish man, big sport of Israel. When Israel did not respond to Saddam's scuds, and he couldn't believe it. I was in his office. He could not believe that they were not responding. But of course Secretary Baker and George H. W. Bush asked them not to respond. I don't think Donald Trump's in the business of asking people not to respond if they want to.
And I think President Trump adjusts better to changes in a strategic in strategic positioning. In other words, in the past, Israel has acted sometimes like they can't act, they can't be a normal do what a normal nation would do in a normal situation, Okay, which is to take advantage of this to attack and degrade their chief aggressor. I think the Israelis are done with that, and I think Trump is fine with it. Trump is not burdened by thirty or forty years of assumptions about the Middle East.
I mean, he's rethinking the region, He's rethought it, and I just think, to look, anybody.
Else in Israel's position, with Israel's.
Power, would join us in this attack, and so I'd like to see him do it now.
Again, there are a.
Whole lot of factors working that you and I don't know about, So maybe they won't. But we're certainly going to use their intel, particularly if we go after command and control with the IRGC, They're going to tell us where everybody is.
Would you expect any of the Golf Coordinating Council countries to join in?
No, accepted defensively. When the Iranians respond and you, I would reassure people, we're very good at this kind of mission when we have time to build up, to plan, and when the environment is basically noncompetitive. I mean, this is not the South China Sea right where there are thousands and thousands and thousands of anti ship cruise of ballistic missiles along the coast of China. This is a
basically uncompetitive environment. We're good at this, and so I'm not saying that we can't take any casualties, but I feel pretty confident in our force protection package.
Jim, you and I are the same as here. I think you can remember the build up to the nineteen ninety one war, which kicked off I think on March one or thereabouts nineteen ninety one, and the projections of the dead on our team on our side was going to be in the five digits and people were horrified at that, but it was going to be five digits. Men lost their lives, but it was in the hundreds. It might not even been over one hundred. I can't remember.
In the Panama Canal invasion in nineteen ninety one, we lost twenty three some soldiers were killed on Heartbreak Ridge in Granada. And then when the two thousand and three invasion happened, we thought chemical weapons and everything was going to rain down on our trips and didn't happen. Do you think the false premise of four wars with relatively low casualties as Americans complacent about the risk our troops face right now?
Well, we had a couple of wars after that, you where unfortunately we took a lot of casualties, so relatively speaking, compared to those other engagements, we took a lot of casualties.
So no, I think people are worried.
I think Donald Trump is uniquely reluctant to use American military power in a sustained combat type situation. Now I don't know what we'd call ten twelve, fourteen days all that sustained. So this is a president I think who uniquely and sometimes I worry about it. Sometimes I think maybe he's too reluctant. So We're not going to go in until we're ready, until we have in place what we need to protect our people as much as they can be protected. That's why I say I have a
fair amount of confidence. I mean, you never know with war, and he's got to pull the trigger. It's just a question now of when. And I've been saying this on the show and on the pod now for the better part of a month, so I should be careful, but I've got to believe it's going to be soon.
The podcast that center Talon is referring to a Twain's World on which he appears every week when Dwayne gets together with the Senator, and it's great national security stuff. What do you expect follows a sustained campaign, even if it's two weeks more Mula's more IRGC or perhaps a different military general. And the way that CC took power back from the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.
Well, I heard one of I think it was Dan Senor's Interviewees. You know, he has so many good ones. I can't remember exactly which one, but he said, the next leader of Iran is not going to be wearing a turbine. He's going to be wearing a military cap and I would really expect that when it happens. I don't think we should necessarily expect that to happen as a result of this campaign, though, because I don't think
the purpose of it is to achieve regime collapse. What I would expect we'll do after that is really go after their oil shipments, their shadow oil fleet. I think that's a better alternative than carg Island, which you've talked about.
You because we don't want to cripple the nation.
We want to cripple the regime, and you can do that by going after their oil ship and so, assuming we have the assets to do it, we can do to them what we're doing to Venezuela now and choke off revenue further from the regime.
Do you think that they are in touch with the reality enough to know what happens where they do inflec serious casualties on American troops And I mean, if they got a destroyer, I think Donald Trump would go through the roof.
Oh yeah, no, I don't think so.
You I think this is the collapse and they're going to be very This is kind of like Hitler and the Bunkers. What I think I mean, this is the collapse of all their ideological and scatological pretensions, I think, and they'll be desperate to do anything to prevent it. And the question is, which the Israelis may know I don't know, is are there regime factions that are drawing back from that kind of a scorched earth policy, who will act if necessary. I think they've been waiting for
the Supreme Leader to die, which makes sense. I mean, that's the time for a transition to something new. So, but are there forces that are prepared to say at some point, no, you know what, We're going to hurry that along. You know, we'll bring a pillow to his bedside in the bunker and we'll get changed before that. And I don't know. I don't know that anybody knows. If anybody knew, it would be the Israelis.
I'm watching his son.
His son is a master that fortune of many, many hundreds of millions of dollars outside of the country. And that's not the action of a confident next in line supreme leg is it.
No?
And I've got to believe that there are people close to him who aren't quite as willing to die as he may be. I mean, there's a limit to how much you know the top leader is one thing or the people immediately around him. But I've never thought that that when you broad it out to the RGC generals and the rest of it, that they're as willing, you know, to meet their maker as the supreme leader is.
So if it.
Happens soon, if regime collapses, collapse happens soon, that'll be what will cause it.
We will look for that move against.
It, and we will look for Center Talent to be back next week. He's also a frequent guest on Dwayne World. I don't know how often Dwayne.
Are doing that.
He's thinking about me kindling the aftershow. Be careful, Jim, he'll cut out the end of that on a daily basis. Don't go anywhere America. Thank you Senator Talent for him on at Jim Talent. It's really the best tex handle out there at Jim Talent from the Reagan Instuit for the Study of Peace through Stank State tuned Jim Garrity. He is of course National are Youth Senior. Of course,
hosted the Three Martini Lunch. She's of course a contributor to The Editors podcast by Nashal review and he's the father of Robot Boys, and so I don't know if he's smart, but his wife must be. The Robot boys interest me a lot more than you, Jim. But someday they'll come on and talk to me about what they're up to. Have they been set back? Can they get a robot to shovel the snow?
That has not done that?
But this has been you know, here in Fairfax County where they are metaphorical snowflakes over literal snowflakes, we got real snow and we were shoveling out.
Sunday in between the football games.
And there was you know, like in our driveway there was still like a layer of ice on top of everything else. So schools were close Monday, that was a guarantee. Wednesday's a half day. Thursday and Friday are off because it's the end of the quarter of the grading period, so off Mountain Day schools canceled get Tuesday. Tuesday afternoon, They're like, what are we doing. There's no way we're sending the kids for half a day for the week.
You're off Wednesday too, So usually my son is like thrill day, snow days, No wants to get into the school to work on the rob robots line schedule. Yeah, the first competitions are in like ed the February, so you know, they get the assignment in January.
This year.
The robot's going to have to like take a ball probably with the size like a volleyball, slightly smaller and shoot it up into a basket and the question you get points for how well your robot can do that. It also has to go over a ramp. This is the first robotics competition for anybody out there who's like, what is this, you know, bizarre thing that my kids get to get into and get really competitive about. So they're into it, but they have to know the first
they got like one more month. They have the design, they have the basics. They got the robot that can roll around by remote control and stuff. It's got to be autonomous for I think thirty seconds. This year they increase that, so you you program in the software. Robot's got to be able to do it by itself for the first thirty seconds or else you're not scoring any points for the first thirty seconds of like a two
minute thirty second competition period. So they got their work cut out for him and couldn't go into.
Any day this week, which is making things a little more complicated. It made really loudy.
Statatics advisor came and opened one door and let the robotics kids in.
Hugh, that is an intense topic of discussion. I'll just put it there. And I don't want to get the illustrious faculty advisor, who's a terrific guy.
I don't want to get.
Anybody in trouble, all right, So nobody starts snooping around one particular at company wants high school.
Okay, goodenough, all right, Jim, let's get serious war, no war.
What do you think, Well, it certainly seems like we've got more and more forces going into that region. I had been frustrated that both on your program in early January and then a little bit more than two weeks ago, and Trump had gone on truth social encourage the Iranian people to rise up.
He says, keep track of who the torturers are.
Help is on the way, Miga, and I assume that means, you know, make a ran great again. And I was very supportive of that is what I wanted to see the president do. And then time went by and not much has happened now. Some of this was getting the Abraham Lincoln carrier group out to the Persian Gulf.
Oh.
By the way, I saw news that Iran, China, and Russia plan on doing joint naval exercises in that neighborhood in the coming days. Hugh, do you think the timing of that joint naval exercise is a coincidence?
No?
But I'm also not particularly worried about the Chinese and the Russian navies getting together. I'm afraid what they'll do is right into each other. They might hit is by accident.
But if the.
Ukrainians you know why the Ridian remember the Ukrainian sidney.
You know why the Ranian navy has glass bottom boats?
Right?
Yeah, Operation Operation Praying Manage.
Well, I was gonna say that way they can see the old Iranian navy.
Okay, but I think they're something's going off here.
I'm just on record. What do you think.
I think the president it would look really bad if nothing happened.
Now.
I want to point out that we have a variety of ways to undermine the Iranian regime. Could be cyber, could be covert action. I think getting as many starlink links and other ways to get communications going on would be helpful. I think trying to jam the communications or disrupt the communications of the Iranian regime might be helpful to the people trying to throw up to overthrow the regime.
So I'm hoping we're doing something already, and I'm hoping that there is more to come, because, as I'm sure your listeners know, Hugh, the estimates of the death tolls among the protesters. Some have it in the ten thousand range, some have it closer to twenty thousand, some of us as thirty thousand.
That's like ten times nine to eleven, like.
Like the figure that they think since Bobby Are in World War One, when the Nazi's wiped out thirty three thousand Jews in Ukraine in two days, it's the biggest two day massacre since then.
Unthinkable.
But Jim, I have talked I think pretty much every Iran expert inside the Beltway over the last two weeks since the President made his remarks on this show, and they all tell me that you cannot bomb.
The IRGC out of power. They're too deeply dug in.
All you can do is candaten create conditions of extreme opportunity for the street. If it takes that opportunity, they may be too shocked.
What do you think, well, open I used open source intelligence shortly after the president's comments to look at which parts of the IRGC are most involved in doing things like putting down protesters, riot control, you know, that kind of stuff. And then I figured out again through open source intelligence, I don't have any spies working me or anything like.
That where those facilities are located.
So when I wrote about the president, like two weeks have gone by since the President said help is on the way, what's you know, What's what's the deal here?
What's going on?
Some people said, Jim, you don't You can't criticize the president without saying what he should do.
Well, I dive everything.
Short of the coordinates and the street addresses for these locations.
And I kind of have this.
Feeling that if the aspects of the rg I RGC that are most involved in buying the proto, if their barracks suddenly explode, that's not going to help morality.
That's not going to help, you know.
And I figure that would be a great shot in the arm for the protesters. Now, is it a legitimate concern about if the Americans helped, does the regime then say, ah, they're all the tools of the Americans, They're all the tools of the Israelis.
Yeah, but the regime is going to say that anyway, like the regime.
That's the one thing I take. There is no support for the regime inside of Iran.
None.
Yeah.
The other thing, and I know other guests in your program are likely to talk about this today. The main impetus behind these protests in this uprising is that the Iranian economy is a mess. The currency is becoming completely devalued. We think we got problems of inflation in this country, it's way way.
Worse in Iran.
Right, So even.
Leff they can somehow kill a whole bunch of people, and even if they can somehow, you know, simp stamp down every Iranian who dares raise their voice, you're still stuck with the economic problems and this regime is not going to be able to fix that. It would require wholesale changes in all of their policies, and they'd have to deal with corruption, and they'd have to deal with all the bad load.
Like, there's really no way for them to get out of this.
So one way or another, the Iranian regime can't continue the way it is. The question is do they hang on by their fingernails for as long as possible after you know, a blood bath of massacring protests, or do we give them a little shove and somebody else gets to run the show and we hope that they have a you know where they're more amenable to our long term vision as you know something and with the long term prospect of the Iranian people.
I had rear Admiral Mark Montgomery on yesterday. He actually run a strike group and he ran through he's retired. He ran through the amount of firepower we have and the number of defensive forces we put in there. But he also noted they're not a regime for walking away if it begins this time, it's not just a discreet insular target that the nuclear facilities at portoh where it's
a bunch of targets. Does Trump risk hemorrhaging support in the United States by getting into well, let's even say, half of a Yugoslavian campaign that Bill Clinton ran, or a third of the Libyan campaign that Barack Obama ran.
Completely fair concerns And one of the things I would note is that the Ayatola theoretically could fly off to Moscow. There are all these reports they've been flying gold bars to Moscow and bringing in weapons back on the flights and stuff like that. If you are the first of all, if you're the Ranian military, you know, maybe some of these of their units are going out and oppressing the people. There are probably some Marianian military folks like I don't
want to shoot my fellow countrymen. I don't want to shoot people who are protesting because they can't afford food and their.
Money has become devalued.
And if the United States starts bombing you know, military targets that are not associated with hitting the civilians, you know, if they start hitting like naval you know units or something like that, I could see the.
Iranians saying, what are you doing, America?
Why are you shooting you know, my brother who's defending our country. Idea, So you got your target selection matters a lot. I have no idea about how difficult this would be, but I do figure if you could do anything akin to a decapitation strike, if you could take out the iotolf, you could take out the top commanders, then there'd be a question for the Iranian military.
Whose side do you want to be on?
And do you want to get into a fight with the American Americans or do you want to say, you know.
What, new group of people in charge, we're going to try. It's a new, fresh, new day. Let's leave all this best flit behind us.
Oh, we can pray for that. Jim Garrity, good luck, get into the school. Remember it's illegal.
To break and enter even a robotic competition. Follow Jim on Acts of Jim Garrity, Read him in the Washington Post, Read the Morning Jolt at Nash Review, and come right.
Back to the Qquit Show on the Salem News Channel. Welcome back.
I'm here here with Noah Rothman, Senior editor way at National Review. No I'm from northeastern Ohio, where tonight it's going to be minus five degrees in Ashtabula, minus eleven degrees in my hometown of Warren, and minus twelve degrees in Youngstown.
Do you have any idea why my wife won't move to Ohio?
I hazard of guess it is so cold you and it has been so cold for so long. There's this little quirk in my bathroom shower where we have a rain headed shower head that just doesn't work under twenty degrees. I don't remember the last time that thing has worked it is. It's driving me quite batty.
Well, I New Jersey with getting in the short end of the stick as well. But if you're marry a California girl, those are unacceptable numbers.
No, let's get serious and hurry to talk a lot. Do you expect a war with they run?
I expect strikes on a run. I don't know what the scale of those strikes are going to be.
I think the president set himself up to the degree that he has to follow through with his red line. It has been flagrantly violated, and the President himself has said that this was a terrible decision for Barack Obama not to follow up on his own self set line. I think there has to be strikes. I hope they're not symbolic. They very well could be. There's a variety
of scenarios that we could be seeing. I'm not sure if the president wants to see a strike so broad and so big that it could actually collapse the regime, although I think that's probably desirable, but it could be calibrated in a way so as to avoid triggering an Iranian response that looks like the response that we could expect if it was an existential threat to the regime, which could take many forms, the most scary of which would be a real concert effort to sink a US warship.
That would take a lot of drones, a lot of one way attack drones, missiles, boats armed with suicide attackers. It would be a concentrated attack in order to achieve something real, not just a demonstrative display like we saw in the wake of the Operation Midnight Hammer where they
targeted the base in Qatar. It would be something very different, But that is my nightmare scenario, not just loosing all the missiles and seeing where they go and hopefully they have some kind of an effect in a message, something really designed to demonstrate that the US is vulnerable.
And this is how you know the British Navy when they invaded successfully the Falklands to take them back from the Argentinians many many years ago, Thatcher senate the Argentinians sunk a British ship, to the great shock of the Imperial Royal Navy that an exo set missile could do that. So there's there's no guarantee, and there are a lot of basses. I asked Admiral Mark Montgomery yesterday retired were admiral from the United States Navy.
He thinks the greater threat are to our base anywhere.
With that GPS, they're not so good at the stuff that moves that, they're pretty good at finding the bases.
Noah, Yeah, And this would be for the regime to take on that kind of an operation. It would be an all or nothing sort of situation. That's that's when the claresy believes that the game is really up. I heard my colleague gim on your last segment say that there's the possibility that the Iranian Clarity could flee to Moscow. I think that's pretty remote, just based on their own mythology with the Shah that fled a great shaw that slaughtered people in the streets, and we're not like that.
We don't do that, even though they obviously are doing precisely that. So there's something of an element to this regime from the founding that maintains that this is around, we are around, we die with Iran or we live with Iron.
So I don't expect them to flee. I expect them to fight.
No, the older generators also don't want to face the rests of their own people.
Yeah, the younger generation listens to Richard Dawkins. The older generation thought the iron I rock war for ten years and walk through minefields. So they're not going anywhere. My question is in terms of what Trump said. But the President said on True Social, then on My show, then to Sean Hannity, then to CBS News Tony ducoppol, then on True Social again. I think he said eight times that a price will be paid if they harm the demonstrator.
He has to do it, but it's just a question of I don't think he has to do it until we're as safe as we can be, and I accept that as an excuse. We're still flying fads in How long does he have until he is rightly subject to criticism for erasing a red line like Obama did.
I don't know.
That's a good question.
It's already too late for me, and I suspect that it was a material deficit. We talked about this at the time that our assets were tied up in the campaign in Venezuela and we did not have the assets in place to make good on this historic opportunity. I think that is a real missed opportunity to Poste already will not look at kindly, but he doesn't have much
longer to wait. I think the protests, we don't have a lot of great information coming out of around, but I think the protests have already relatively fizzled out, and we're starting to talk ourselves into the notion that the best case scenario would be a military dictatorship to replace
the regime ousting. I imagine the IRGC and the Koods forces, the religious police, the religious character of the regime would be replaced with something much more like the regime now under cc Or Mobarik in Egypt, something very military in nature and very undemocratic. I think we shouldn't be talking ourselves into that as though that's the best case option for us. Right now, we have The violence that we saw on the street was a result of an outpouring
of I would call it democratic enthusiasm. I don't think I'm shy about saying that that was a liberal movement at its root, and it's something that I.
Have cream side you pour on in the last hour, and I'm going to ask him because he knows you're on at least as well as anyone inside the belt Way without a classified access to information. What is the ceiling for I run? I think it's really high. I think it is very much. It's a first world country. The Shaw had it on the White Revolution path and it's just gone backwards for forty seven years. I think it can reclaim growth pretty quickly. They've got everything there.
I think it can too.
There's a lot of X factors there, including the repression of Iranian minorities.
Over the course of the last fifty years.
How would the Azeris feel, the Kurds, the Blukes, the marsh Arabs, how would they feel about a military dictatorship? Would they simply roll over for it? Or would they have to be suppressed and pacified?
Now, let me ask that out.
The case learning after the break up, play my appearance on America Reports this Minke, which was right after America's newsroom, right after home and got done speaking, and I began by saying that was a masterful class in communication.
Did you watch him?
I didn't watch it.
I read transcript or elements of the transcript, and so I can't comment on it. I can't comment on a dramaturgy of it as a theater critic, but I can say that the substance of the remarks were powerful, impressive, and exactly what the moment called for.
Again, I've said this couple of times.
I don't know if I said it on your show, But a tactical retreat, which is what they're engineering here, is not the abandonment of the campaign. It is the prosecution of the campaign on more auspicious terms and better circumstances.
And that's I think with this administration.
The better part of prudence compelled this administration to do that, and I'm very glad that they took that opportunity. That the temperature in this country is quite high right now.
And even though it looks like a retreat, indeed the second in as many weeks if you count the off ramp that the President took in Greenland, but that is a prudent leadership, commendable leadership, and a d escalation of the conflict that this administration sought and waged and secured many success in the prosecution of it and de escolating is important.
His dad is a cop, his grandfather is a cop. He's been in law enforcement for forty years. He did not raise his voice. Cops know they do not want to be involved in officer shooting. Most importantly, he didn't raise his voice. He spoke calmly throughout. I wish everyone in America would learn. You don't persuade anyone by shouting. Do you think that that message is going to get across to anybody?
Well, he does get across to almost everybody who's not engaged in political combat on a daily basis. I mean, to those of us who are involved in this business, we're the weird ones. We're the ones who think that, you know, domestic politics is an existential fight for the very soul of the nation. Most of the country doesn't think that way, and so they wouldn't behave that way in a very high.
Strung and theatrical manner.
But those of us who would do this do politics as entertainment sometimes lapse into that, and that can find its way into the political cast. It's good to see that permanent bureaucrats like Tom Holman or get at his job, just reject that form of theaters as say.
Craft, may it spread Oh Noah, no c Rothman read him in the National Room and listen to him on the Editors and come right back to the Hugh Hewit Show. Welcome back America. I'm join Maleana Johnson on the Hugh Hewitt Show. She's the editor in chief of the Washington Free Beacon, a contributor to Commentary podcast. He is also a native of the Twin Cities. Eleana, I want to start with the Twin Cities. I haven't heard the Commentary podcast.
I was in the dentist chair for two days and not dancing around listening to you and the fellows and Christine over at Commentary. What do you think of Tom Homan's remarks this morning and of the situation in the Twin Cities?
Now, well, you, I just listened to your remarks on the Fox program and I totally agree with you. I thought he gave an absolutely lucid presentation. And I will say, as a reporter, I love somebody who goes up to the microphone and says I was given talking points, but I'm not going to use them. So that that was fantastic. And the one thing I thought he did, I know you said you appreciated one of his remarks in particular, but something else caught my I you liked his remark
about no comment on the video. I appreciated something else, which was his explanation very clearly that minimal cooperation from local law enforcement will allow that will allow ICE to
draw down quickly and why? And he explained that for ICE, picking up a criminal illegal immigrant from a jail requires much less manpower than doing an operation to pick up a criminal off the streets or in their home, which requires a big team plus a team to follow to deal with all of the rioters whose main goal has been not peaceful protests, but to interfere and prevent the administration of federal law enforcement. And I thought that was really important.
It was And again I heard that too, and I thought, point point point Elianna, do you think Donald Trump has a unique way of communicating? But not many people, if anyone else, can do it that way, because you have to be a celebrity, you have to have a bit of the developer in you. You've got to have ten years of reality television training to communicate with that range.
I think the Homan approach, call them quiet collected, ought to be passed around the cabinet table and people ought to be told to study.
It's Marco Rubio's way. It's the way of Doug Bergham.
There are only a few people who want to hit ranges that are outside of their vocal expertise.
There are a number of good communicators I think that the President has on hand for this mission, which is a serious one. In Minnesota. Tom Homan, whose background for years in law enforcement, his sober, mean and deep knowledge both of the mission and of the law, I think was perfectly suited to Minnesota, as was Marco Rubio's yesterday in the Senate, which was a masterclass in diplomatic.
In diplomacy and.
Of back and forth.
And they had different styles, you know, rub Rubio was funny and charming, and I wouldn't say home and was either of those things. But they were both wonderful in their respective venues.
Here's a third approach from today's cabinet meeting. It's Vice President vance cut number sixteen for a Leanna Johnson.
I just want to thank.
Everybody for being my cabinet has been amazing. I like this much better than going around for three hours. We'll pick on other ones. Pam, you're doing great. We're all doing great.
JD.
You'd like to say something you can would you like your Really, he is, after all, the vice president, so.
I'm here for the free coffee.
I just say it's an honorous server with this group, and that understatement Eliana is also a good trick for people, don't you think.
Well, particularly when you're sitting next to or across from the President and he's in the room with you. I think Vance really showed his range and his utility on the campaign trail where he came out of the gate
and had a rough go of things. But he's really been fantastic doing battle with the media, particularly on these Sunday shows, and he really shines going back and forth with the mainstream press and has showed he's a real asset to this administration where when he does a Sunday show, the headlines that come out of it, particularly with Margaret Brennan on CBS News, are of the Vice President pressing the administration's case and owning the respective hosts, and I
think the President came to value that both on the campaign trail and in the administration.
I've called it with John Wick of the Sunday shows, i think he is the John Wick of the Sunday shows.
Now, let's go to war or no war? Eleana Johnson, What do you think you know?
Hugh.
It's funny we talked about this a week ago. I was sort of the outlier on the commentary podcast saying that I thought the window for action was still open, and that's where I still am. I do believe the President will act. None of us know what's going to happen. I could be wrong, but with the assets in the region and Trump renewing his threats, he's laid out his
conditions for a deal. They are abandoned the nuclear program, limit ballistic missile capacity, which remains formidable for this regime even though it was weakened by the Twelve Day War in June. Israel and the US really did not touch ballistic missile capacity, and stop the funding of terror proxies. It seems to me that those are conditions that the Iranian regime will not agree to, and so I think we're going to see action because.
Adam Crado figured out what the war plan is yet. Because Adam usually has the scoops over at the Washington Free Beacon.
I wish trust we'd have that on the front page if we knew it.
He is a remarkable reporter. I don't know how long he's been at the Beacon, but he gets scoopy. He can know a lot of your people.
He's a twelve year og and I would point your folks to his wonderful report yesterday morning that well, the PA president claimed to have suspended pay for slave programs, they were merely shifted into another organization and continued. All the while a confidential, non public State Department report to Congress showed, you know, once a terrorist, always a terrorist.
I also want to compliment the free Beacon. I hate affirmative action. It's unconstitutional to use race to award and gender to award benefits or to inflct punishments. Absolutely and constitutional. You guys stay on that is that like a beat at the Beacon.
Our star superstar reporter, and we have several of them, but our reporter Aaron Sabarium is on that, as are a few others. And I would note that the Justice Department weighed in in a case on UCLA that was brought by Due Noo Harm against UCLA Medical School, and the Justice Department weighed in on do No Harm's behalf just yesterday. So we're seeing concrete action from this administration on this matter. And The source of it is impactful reporting.
Last year, a former member of the UCLA Board of Advisors told me that two years ago, do you how many Jews were admitted to UCLA Medical School?
Two years ago?
One one one Jewish doctor at the UCLA Medical School class and two years ago? I cannot believe it.
Elianna, Good to see you as always.
Follow Eleiana on exit Eleana why Johnson, Read the free Bacon at freebeacon dot com and come right back.
To the Qwitt Show. Hi, it's you, Hewett.
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Walking Back America. I'm Hugh Hewett.
Vic Mattis is the weekend unditor and arts and culturtor at The Free Beacon. He's also co host of the Getting Hammered podcast, my go to podcast for Root canals.
Vic.
I don't know if you heard yesterday's program with Mary Katherine Ham, but I listened to the latest Getting Hammered yesterday. Well, they were pile driving my back bowler to get rid of a root I.
Didn't now I had left.
No, I did not know about that.
Hugh.
I'm very sorry and yet very happy because getting hammered is a form of anesthesia for many people.
Well, it was, but it was easy.
I kept pain.
I was laughing, especially at the fact that the winter storm has caused you to add some pounds and your wife doesn't like watching you work out.
Yes, that is correct.
You know, we get into this hoarding mentality when, especially in the Washington d See area, you hear a storm's coming and then you know, everybody treats the local supermarket like it's the Soviet Union and all the you know, shelves are suddenly bare. And then you're suddenly eating three meals a day plus in between snacks because you feel like you have to. As if again, like I mentioned on the show, it's like you're living at the Overlook Hotel in the shining Yes. Again, it's a couple of days.
It's not the end of the world. I eat less when the weather's.
Nicer, Vic tell me if I asked Mary Catherine, yesha, and she said d C was leading Virginia in the Disaster Olympics. Because snowstorms are snowstorms for about two days. Then they become failures of government or success stories for government.
Which is it in d C?
And Maryland?
H yeah, well for DC definitely. We're talking about again the nation's capital. People are coming into the city as we speak. They're flying in, they're taking the trains. I had to meet with a friend of mine, Tunkuverdarjian of the Wall Street Journal, and he had to hop around. He said it was very pair in Washington's capital. He thought that was a little bit unnerving and disturbing. I said, that's come to be expected.
So it is a mess. And Muriel Bowser, the mayor, is blaming.
The situation on the unusual circumstance of sleet and snow, which she claims has never happened before.
But everybody, including.
Our friend Tim Carney, has been saying for a long time, get out there, get the shovels out, get the trucks out while it's still soft snow, before the sleet hardens and you have these giant sheets of ice rock. Of course they didn't do that, and now we have the mess where we have literally one lane going in and out of some of these main thoroughfares. I'm here in Arlington, Virginia, and honestly, it's not that much better. The road to get over to key Bridge is one lane. Normally it's four.
That's a bit of a mess, and I don't know when they're going to change it.
Back in nineteen long ago and far away nineteen eighty four and the fetching Missish and I had an apartment in the Envoy at the corner of California and Connecticut, and for to go from there to Vienna, Virginia is a straight shot out the sixty six about fifteen twenty minutes. Took us seven hours to make that trip because of sleet and ice. That was unexpected. It wasn't forecast. Why people aren't ready with sand I mean Ohio right now is tonight my hometown will be minus eleven degrees.
And they know how to deal with that in Ohio.
Muriel Bowser blaming someone who I'm shocked shock that the government official didn't stand up and say I failed to prepare.
Well, I'm actually shocked that she even bothered to sort of give an excuse, because you know.
She's on her way out. She's not running for reelection.
I made a comparison the other day on getting hammer to Marion barry be California, you know, during the Super Bowl and saying hey, I called during halftime, you know.
And they always make sure the mayor's street gets plowed. But that's about it. And so I am shocked about that.
And of course this is a big test, for the first of any big tests for Abigail Spanberger in Virginia, and I honestly don't think she's doing a great job at least when it comes to the snow cleanup, let alone the taxes.
Now, I want to go back to the getting hammered portion of the discussion. I and twice in my long life, twice have I been approached by someone yelling at me in a public if we get the boo boo boo from Princess Bride, Because apparently someone did the boo boo booed at getting hammered Mary Katherine Ham and she marched right over there and talked to the individual. I've been accosted twice, but I was so shocked that I neither got mad or I just kind of that's it.
So bit has it ever happened to you?
No, I'm trying to think about this, and I've been I've done a lot of you know, speaking gigs over many years. I've been in this business now for what thirty years now, You and I've dealt with hostile audiences. But that was sort of anticipated, especially during the Iraq War, and so I expected hostile questions at the time when I was at the weekly Standard. But walking into a place and getting booed, no, not for not for the
circumstances that that Mary Catherine found herself in. But of course being Mary Catherine, she you know, she likes a good conflict. And you sort of stun your opponent when you beat them to the punch. And this person obviously had to take a step back and realize that, you know, maybe they were getting a little carried away.
You know, have you ever been to Aspen? No, I have not been to ask The airport's not very big. You have to fly little airplanes in there, and it's kind of a quick descent. I got off the plane and Aspen and a younger fella, probably thirty at the time, got up in my face and me and right in my girl, and you're kind or not wanted here? And I thought that middle aged white men can't come to Aspen, right which kind of which kind is? Like, I like the most of all peanut butter and jelly guy in America.
What do you mean we can't come here that's like half the country.
Yeah, yeah, no, that would be very disturbing. I'm sorry you had to deal with Oh it was fine.
Yeah.
Now tell me what you thought of Tom Homan this morning. That could not be on getting hammered yesterday because it was yesterday.
That's right.
Again, we talked about the ice situation yesterday before we knew that Homan was coming in and he was going to replace Paveno in this situation to sort of calm things down.
And I really do think he did.
So.
He had an eight am press conference bright in early our time on the East coast.
And look what he wanted to do is he spoke to the authorities.
He spoke to the you know, Minneapolis politicians who matter, and he wanted to have a reset because let's let's stop for everybody's sake and ask ourselves, why is ice here in Minnesota or in any state, what it is exactly that they're doing, and why did the situation become become so dangerous? And I think he did a very good job about explaining what the role of ICE is. The people they're apprehending, the number of arrests, the murder
rate is down in this country, all these things. Again, life would be so much easier if they were able, If ICE was just able to retrieve illegals who do a criminal wrongdoing in the jails.
I give you thousands of agents.
Well and quick cut number five from Tom Hummon this morning.
So target enforcement operations wave, We've always done it. I think we got a wait for a little bit, and we're going want to make sure we do target enforcement operations. And I look at I will say it again. You know we are not surrendering our mission at all.
Do you believe him?
Madis Yeah?
I think so. I mean, you know, Trump very much campaigned on this. Holman is a very serious, sober guy.
They can if they can reduce the presence of ICE agents on the street, than fine. But in terms of getting very dangerous illegal criminals off the streets, that's something that they are going to continue to do.
Great. I'd like to see that continue.
Obviously, the big question is Jacob Fry talking both sides out of his mouth, because on the one hand, behind the scenes, I mean he spoke to President Trump and he spoke to Homan. Uh and there seems to be some level of understanding about what ICE needs to do.
And again, what do they have in common here?
Both sides they say they want they want the community to be safer, But obviously Jacob Brian tim Mots can do a lot more to make it safer by helping Tom Homan and.
Ice, and he got Keith Ellis and the Attorney General is not very sharp on the law at least going to help I get the detainers that are.
Their release from prison.
Victreno Madison X's also the co hosts of there Getting Hammered podcast.
But there's wonderful that for the Denner's chair and anywhere you go. Thank you, Vitt.
I'll be right back in