Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College. All Things hillsdalet Hillsdale dot edu, or I encourage you to take advantage of the many free online courses there, and of course I'll listen to the Hillsdale Dialogue all of them at q for Hillsdale dot com or just google, Apple iTunes and Hillsdale Jority Leader Senator John Thune of South Dakota, Senator, Merry Christmas to you. I hope you get out of town soon, back to South Dakota. I suspect it's warmer there.
Yeah, Merry Christmas you. It's probably not warmer there, but it's always better to be there than here.
Right, yeah, I would say so, thank you forgiving me some time today. I want to look back at twenty twenty five and a little bit forward and mostly good news, some ongoing battles, and then a couple of disagreements I want to talk to you about. Let me begin with the best news. Since the reconciliation process came along in nineteen seventy four, Republicans have successfully used it only four times, including this year, So congratulations on that for the walks out there, including me.
How difficult was that.
Very You know, the nice thing about reconciliation you as you know, as you can do at fifty one votes in the Senate would typically take sixty. So it is an opportunity when you have unified control of the government like we do right now, House, Senate and White House, to do really big consequential things. And we used it for that reason. We got a lot of really big
consequential things done. But just getting fifty one, you know, keeping Republicans united to even pass something with a simple majority was incredibly challenging, especially something is you know, it has as far reaching and had as many moving parts as the bill that we passed last summer did. So yeah, you want to you want to make use of it in a way that creates policy that's good for a really long time. And most of the stuff that we did in there, especially on the tax side, we made permanent.
So those oh, thank god the clip what it kell. But for the people who are trying to keep score at home two thousand and one, two thousand and three, two thousand and seventeen, when it was Speaker Ryan and Leader McConnell, and then twenty twenty five, do you think there will be another one?
Later could be.
I mean, I'm open to that, and some of our colleagues are interested in another reconciliation bills. Well, we actually have a couple of vehicles available to us. The way the Democrats finished up, there was a they didn't do a budget that last year. So we took their basically
shell and legislative vehicle their budget and did it. So we actually have two that we could still do this next year if we wanted to, and if there's a reason to, if we come together behind some healthcare proposal that we think we want to make permanent and create
more affordable healthcare, I could see that happening. But I think there it's really important that you know the stuff that we did in this first one, which again you know, if you look at the kind of categorize it as safe streets, more money in people's pockets, and new opportunities to get a hit for the American people and on tax stuff, energy stuff, regulatory, you know, the newborn accounts, school choice, childcare, things that the Democrats been trying to
do for years. We were able to get done in this build, and only on our terms, and so it was really really a consequential piece of legislation, and we'll look for other opportunities if things come along in the tax space, from the healthcare space, and we want to, you know, do some things that can make policy that will take us in a different direction, particularly on healthcare, to make it more affordable than yes, we're open using it.
Well, I want to remind people what would have happened had you not. And reconcilation was very hard this year because the leader then had to work with Speaker Johnson. And not only is it fifty one votes in the Senate, I mean it's a close run thing. Everything in the House is. So you two may have the best working relationship in the years I've been doing this between the House and the Senate. Would you will you think that will stand up?
I do.
Mike Johnson is terrific in what he does and as just a he's a character guy and so I really enjoy working with him where we we have. He's got he's got a really hard job, as you point out, I mean talk about a narrow majority he has to navigate there. We have a similar situation, but this is even more I think complicated, frankly, but so we meet
every week. We're meeting later today. We talk regularly. I talked to him on the phone yesterday, and so it's a it's a really good working relationship you and one that is conducive to getting things done. But I can't tell you how hard and challenging and complicated it is with those narrow majorities, just keeping people together, you know, on on what are some very complicated and challenging issues.
And President Trump's not a shrinking violent he has opinions. Well there is that has opinions. Let me go to the second Big Deal, and again this is for want. You used the nuclear option, and I applaud that was a tough thing to decide to do, but you did it, and I'm glad you did it. Again, Let's remind people what you had to do right.
Well, and frankly, that was really hard to begin. You had to get people who were in our conference. We had to do it with fifty one days. We did all with all Republicans, and honestly, we held every way together, which I think was pretty remarkable. But we did a ton of education and reforming and and you know, the idea around how the nominations process historically worked and it's supposed to work, and the Democrats had virtually blown it up.
I mean they literally President Trump's first president of history not to have a single one of his nominees approved by the voice fold or unanimous consent, which is typically it's the expedited way of getting non controversial nominees through the process. And MS were just forcing us to vote literally on every you know, not just the top level people the cabinet level, which we do, but sub cabinet level and below. And it had change. Couldn't continue on
this pace. The president never would have got his people in place. So we came up with a rules change, you know, something refer it as a tactical nuke instead of a strategic nuke. But we did some things that created what frankly, had been the practice for a long time in the Senate, and that is on these non concert controversial noms being able to move them quickly in an expedite way. So we're now stacking him. We're going to move a stack later. Today there are ninety seven
and this bunch oh wow. Yeah.
Well, you, however, have a disagreement with the president, and I am on your side on this on preserving the legislative filibuster. Have you persuaded him yet that we really don't want to change that.
Yeah, well, good luck with persuading him, Hugh. He is he is very He has a strong view on it, and which I appreciate and I'm sympathetic to because of the obstacles the Democrat throw up against him. I mean, the the way that they're playing this, the Trump derangement syndrome is epic and real, and these Democrats are blinded by their hatred of the President and so they are not They don't want to do anything in any way that works with us to achieve his objectives or his
goals or his agenda. And so I understand the presence frustration. But I also know that at least historically, the filibuster and as you know, since its inception, unlimited debate has been a feature of the United States and then going back to seventeen eighty nine and then now, it takes a supermajority still to this day to do anything here.
And I think that makes sense on legislation. It forces collaboration, it gives a voice to the minority, and I think it's protected Republicans and conservatives in this country through the years from a lot of really bad stuff the Democrats would have done if they could have done in the fifty one vote. So I know it's controversial, but I think it's something that has protected Republicans way off more often any benefit we might get from getting rid of it.
And it's a defensible line around the Supreme Court. And I tell everyone, if they ever blow up the filibuster and they moved to expand the court and pack the court, we will have lost the rule of law. So the filibuster is like the first trench they have to get over to get to the court, and we can't have that happen now. To my surprise, Leader Throne, two Congressional Review Acts passed. I didn't even know that they were there. I thought maybe people forgot about it. But I listened
to Dan Sullivan. That really has saved our bacon in Alaska. I had totally forgotten about those things, and you got two of them through last week.
We did, and that makes twenty four for the year. And they're rolling back bard some Biden regulations that in many cases, and as Dan Sullivan points out, there were seventy if you can believe the seventy Biden regulations that went after the Energy industry in the state of Alaska. It was almost like he singled them out and it was just, you know, had a specific team of blowing
up the state of Alaska. So we've restored some sanity, particularly in the area of energy, but a lot of these Biden error regulations that needed to go by the wayside. We use the Congression Review Act, which is a legislative vehicle available to do that, and twenty two of the twenty four that we've passed through the Senate have now been signed in the law by the President. So it's a mechanism to undo a lot of the damage done
by the previous administration. We've used it, I think very effectively got rid of the California the EPA waiver, which would have required that electric vehicles be thirty five percent of the cars in the country next year and twenty thirty five one hundred percent, which is just virtually impossible and crazy. And California had managed to export that policeyat to eighteen other states around the country. So we came up with a fairly creative way of taking that down.
But that's also something I think as we look back on this past year as a real I think accomplishment, Republicans together to undo a lot of the Biden your damage, a.
Lot of legislative wins. But sometimes it's also important just not to lose. And you didn't lose. You didn't blink in the shutdown. I don't know if that was ever in doubt?
Was it?
Because you just couldn't blink there? And I'm so glad you didn't.
Yeah, I mean that's as you know, it's hard because there's a lot of pressure and you've got people, i mean people in our office. Every day you come in, you aren't getting paid, and it's you know, becomes a very personal issue. But what they did was just unprecedented and completely uncalled for. I mean, they got themselves in over their skis, and the left, the far left in this country, was calling the shots and Chuck Schumer was taking his orders put you know, walked us marshed us
into this thing. It was totally unnecessary, totally uncalled for, and frankly unprecedented in historic what they did, you know, and we, for forty three days endured it. The American people had to endure it. But if we had even given in and rewarded that kind of bad behavior, we would just get more of it. You see more and more of that. So it was important that we hold the line. And you know, it's a but it's again another indication of just the hatred that the left has
for the President of the United States. We see it playing out every single day here in the Senate.
I want to add another category.
You don't have to do anything when the war power is invoked by the president. I know the War Powers Act I think is unconstitutional, But when he did Operation Midnight Hammer, when we're doing the interdictions in the Caribbean and the flotilla and who knows what's been announced at five o'clock to night, you have led the Republicans in standing behind the president. I don't think we've lost anyone, with the exception perhaps of Senator Paul on a thing or two. Am I right about that?
Yeah, that's correct. I mean, there are others who were sympathetic to the argument that's made on that particular issue. But I think the presence perfectly within his rights as the command in Chief to exercise the authority that he has under the Constitution to protect Americans an American interest, and that's certainly what he's been doing with these targeting these terrorist cartels that are poisoning any American people with
the drugs that they've been bringing into this country. And so you know, there's always going to be questions around that, and of course, especially now because it's this president, the Democrats have really hypercharged their attacks on him. But he's had good support from Republicans here because we believe he's on the right track when it comes to protecting Americans and that's his peace. Whose strength is you know, the policy he's adopted and one that I agree with and share.
It's a dangerous world and this president is not going to shy away from doing what it takes to protect Americans.
I want to add as well. Anti Semitism is everywhere, and we saw it in Bondai Beach in Australia. I think it may have a role in the murder of the mit professor. I don't know any anything about Brown. I'm not ruling it out. But you've kept the caucus together and united behind our ally Israel. That's getting tough for every day given what's happening to the Democratic Party. Is that on the agenda for twenty twenty six.
It is And I think that notwithstanding what is happening to the and I don't understand, you know, with Democrats in this country, that used to be a bipartisan issue, but they have their political laugh. The Prohomas wing of the Democrat Party is ascendant right now. It's where the energy is and a lot of the money is in Democrat politics. You see it playing out in some of
these elections around the country. And that's really unfortunate because support for Israel is a time honored policy of this country and our greatest ally in that part of the world, and an ally with whom we have so much in common on you know, going back to faith, tradition, to the economy, to national security interests, into democracy. There are just so many reasons why our support for is needs to be on equivocal, especially to time when they are
constantly under attack. And so yeah, it's hard to explain where the Dems are. But we will continue here at least in the Senate on the Republican side of the aisle, with continuing a very strong message of support and backing it up with actions now later.
It's important for realize.
You not only have to move legislation and get the caucus there, and you have to get stuff done and stop stuff from happening.
But it's also important you got to look ahead.
You got to hold the majority, and that means Senator Collins next year, Senator Houston, Ohio, even Senator Sullivan giving their screwe voting system up there. And you've got open seats in North Carolina, Kentucky and Iowa. A great Mitch McConnell's stepping down, Jony Earns is stepping down. Tom Tillis is stepping down. How do you feel about who you've recruited and how it's going on those three vacancies in our three target Senators Collins, Houston, and Sullivan.
We feel really about where those races all are. You it's a it's a midterm election, and you you have correctly as you always be diagnosed where the races and where our challenges aren't vulnerabilities are around the country. But you know, midterm elections there's typically you're you're facing a little bit of a headwind. But these are really strong incumbents and case of Senator Collins has run against you know, so many times outperformed Republicans not only in her state
but all over the country. And Houston is a great new senator from Ohio, really accomplished, hard working, and and I think he's going to be in great shape there and really important too because of who he's running against. Democrats recruited Shard Brown and a far left Democrat and somebody we need to make sure that doesn't come back to the Senate. So we're gonna be working hard on that one. Of course, Ashley Hinson's a great recruit in Iowa.
Were really delighted that she stepped up into that race. We hate to lose Joni, but Ashley will be a great replacement. But it's going to take a lot of resources. And you know, clearly we need the President and being out there helping these folks and then also having a record of accomplishment to run on, which I think they do,
and then you know, we get those states. As you mentioned, we've got some pickup opportunities too, and we're gonna be working hard not only to protect and preserve our majority, but hopefully to expand upon it. But that'll take a huge team effort, you know, the President and our incumbents, our challengers, all of our supporters out there and donors working together to keep the team, to keep the team on the field and make sure you have the ability.
I haven't forgotten Michigan and Georgia, maybe even Minnesota, but that's for another time. You also have to start recruiting an n RSC chair for the next cycle, don't you have you got anyone in mind? Or you're talking to people, there are.
Some folks who have an interest in that. And yeah, we get some I believe it or not. I mean, it's a hard job. As you know, you're going out every day every week basically trying to raise resources to support the team, and takes an enormous amount of time. So but we get people who are really I'm so good grateful that we got people who really are difference makers here and see that as an important role. And I think we'll we'll have a good person in that spot.
Stand by.
I'm going to come back with the final part of my interview with Leader Thune in a little bit.
Let me remind you.
Angel Tree, we're running out of time. We are down to eight days, and we can take care of more kids. Of the one point five million children whose mom and or dad are in jail find bars. They get a bible, a present, a note from mom or dad, about the President, how much they love them, and most important of all, the connection to Angel Tree. You can call Angel Tree a triple A two oh six twenty seven sixty four.
Whether you give a.
Huge gift like my friends Carolyn jan did, or a small gift like many of you have sent ten or fifteen or twenty dollars. God sees, I see, we see, and more important, those kids receive on Christmas something from their.
Mothers and fathers. Thank you an.
Opportunity to talk to my guy, Governor, Glenn Youngkin of Virginia. I say my governor for another month. He's going to be my governor, and I no doubt he's going to run through the tape, but I wanted to get in line early for all the exit interviews. Governor, thank you for making time today. Good to see you, and Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas.
You.
Thank you for making time for me.
And I got to tell you what an honor it is to not only be with you on your great radio show, but also to have a chance to reflect on what's happened over the last four years, because it's been just amazing.
Well that is my first question here. What do you think are your greatest accomplishments and the state's greatest accomplishments. And I want to give you the runway because there's a lot that got done.
Well. Thank you for asking the question.
And Hugh, I think that the story of the last four years has been one of massive transformation. It's been one of competing and winning. It's been one of promises made and promises kept, and it's.
Been a story of Virginia leading again.
I was humbled the other day when I I heard someone described the last four years as the Great Virginia Renaissance. But you have to go back to where we started to really put it in perspective. Back in twenty twenty one, Virginia was struggling. It was stalled and coming out of the pandemic, we'd had twenty five thousand small businesses shut, more people move away. We were forty seventh in the nation and job recovery, we had a twenty year higher
murder rate. And by the way, Virginia was ranked top in the country and learning loss in fourth grade reading, in math because the schools were all shut. I mean, that's what we walked into and we went to work, and when Virginia's hired me. I told him that I was going to go to work to transform things, to change things.
And that's exactly what we've done.
We had to fix business in Virginia and open it up, and Virginia's had just a remarkable run. We've had one hundred and fifty six billion dollars of investment commitments from companies over the last four years, and Hugh, that's as
much as the last six governors combined. It's led to record job growth, that's led to record revenue growth for the Commonwealth, and it's been that financial strength that's then allowed us to turn around and provide record tax relief nine billion dollars, a tax relief to Virginians beyond anything that's ever been seen in Virginia before, and that I think has really led to the biggest shift, which is more people moving to Virginia from the other forty nine
states than moving away for the first time in a decade.
That's really the hearts of our effort.
But one of the things our record revenue allowed us to do was tackle I think some of the most challenging issues that Virginia had, which was education, and at the top of the list was getting parents back in front of their students and their children at the head of the table. I mean, listen, number one in the nation and learning loss in reading and math and fourth grade. I mean, it's just stunning where Virginia was with parents
being shoved out the door in their kids' lives. And on top of that, we'd seen the systematic degradation of expectations of excellence.
So we went to.
Work, and I have to say today I signed the bill to get the masks off of kids, to allow parents to take sexual explicit materials out of their child's curriculum, but on top of that, to totally transform the way that we accredited our schools so that now we know whether they are actually teaching the children or not. The work we've done to get cell phones out of the classrooms with bell to bell, cell phone free education across the entire state, and finally we've led the nation and
reducing chronic absenteeism. All of that HUE has really been part of re establishing expectations of excellence. And guess what, we made the standardized tests harder and the students did better.
How about that?
And finally, this last year we were named the best state in America. For teachers. So you know, education has.
Been one of our big, big, big opportunities, and I think we've done fonstrated that you can transform a broken educational system and for the benefit of students and parents.
Yeah, anecdotal evidence and evidence of anecdotes. Lawyers like to say that, But my anecdote is my four grandkids who are military kids, began in Virginia, went to California, could not wait to get back to Virginia schools because of the turnaround here and the emphasis on quality. I think I don't know firsthand, but I also think you have left a mark on Virginia higher education, the state university system here.
Am I right about that?
Yeah, We've gone to work in order to make it a system that's focused on merit, and to try to match curriculum to job opportunities, and finally to bring the cost down because it's so hard for families in Virginia to afford these universities. And it's really just been the bully pulpit the Governor's office.
I have really pushed them.
We kept touish flat the first year and it's been an average of only two percent increases the last three years.
Because there's plenty of money in the system.
But I've also been so proud of our ability to match degree paths to the labor opportunities in Virginia. I mean, we've created hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of jobs, and we need people to take those jobs. But to the blending of these two points is really important. We've created pathways for students to go straight to work, or go to college, or join our military, and that has
been one of our top priorities. There's not one size fits all colleges and for everybody, and so now nearly eighty percent of our students graduate from high school with an industry recognized credential, so they can go straight to work, or they can go through one of our great JROTC programs and immediately enlist in the military, which, by the way,
is such a backbone of the Commonwealth of Virginia. This idea that going to work or joining the military should be celebrated, I think is one of the big achievements of the Commonwealth of Virginia. That's not the takeaway from our great universities, but I do believe that there's a pathway that's unique to every single Virginia kid.
And we got to open it up and let them chase it.
Now you mentioned Billy Pulpit Governor.
I want to be the first, I'm sure among many who also want to thank First Lady Youngkin for many things, but especially one Pill can Kill campaign. I think she saved lives with that. I don't know where she came up with it, but it's been brilliant. Also, bet she's going to look forward to January eighteenth when you get a little break right.
Well, I have to say the First Lady has been extraordinary to serve with your wife and to see her do such amazing work. I mean, Virginia has led the nation in reducing overdose deaths from fentnol, and she's been at the forefront. She's been traveling around the state speaking with parents and students and coaches and pastors, making sure everybody understands the scourge of fentanyl. And then we've coupled that with a concentrated effort to interdict the drug trade.
We have seized enough fentanyl to kill every Virginia ten times over. We have tried to really attack the gang violence in Virginia. In our partnership with the federal government has been amazing. Through the Virginia Homeland Security Task Force, we have arrested thousands and thousands and thousands of violent criminals who are here illegally. We arrested the number three player in MS thirteen living right here in Virginia.
And so it's been this combination of.
The great work from my amazing wife Suzanne and law enforcement that has enabled us to bring down fentanyl overdoses in such an extraordinary way.
Well, Governor, I hope after you are done, you'll come back and we'll take some time to talk about the media. We'll kick Larry O'Connor around a little bit. But genuinely, honestly thank you, because Virginia is a much better place to live for years after your governorship than when I first got here. And I appreciate that you didn't have to.
Do this, and you did it.
Neither did missus youngkin so on my behalf of my family, thank you. We appreciate your doing the time.
Greg.
God bless you, Hugh.
I wish you a very blessed Christmas, and most importantly, thank you for hiring me. What an honor it's been to see Virginia become the state that we all know.
She should be ay'm en to that Merry Christmas, Governor. Be well, I'll be right back in America. Stay two. I've been a busy morning already, in a busy afternoon already, but I did want to take a moment to say. I woke up this morning and opened up my text my emails, then I go to my ex account. It's like a kick in the gut. Norman pod Hoortz had died. Now Norman pod Howartz is ninety six. His son is an acquaintance, a friend, a guest on this program known
for a long time. I've only interviewed Norman Podhwarts a couple of times, but he's a giant in the American antheon of intellectuals and for different people. I heard this, in fact, in real time. I listened to the commentary pod today and John wasn't there sitting Shiven, no doubt. But Abe Greenwald, Christine Rosen, and Eleanna Johnson were there and I was listening and taking notes. And they're all much younger than I am, right, so they all have
different understandings of Norman pod Hortz. For Abe Greenwald, Norman pod Hoortz the great editor of commentary magazine for forever, great New York intellectual. For Abe, it's the guy who introduced him to World War four, the guy who explained what nine to eleven was about and what it meant.
And for Christine Rosen, it was American intellectual history. And how much Norman pod Horts, who she got to know in person like I did not, how much he loves the country, how he always used we versus I was absolutely a patriots patriot. And Eleana Johnson, who is young enough to be my daughter, said about him, Look, he was an editor's editor. And then they got to talking about the fact that he was. He didn't need to
have credit for what the work he did. They told him a couple of funny stories I had not heard, including the fact that the famous Dictatorships and Double Standards article by Jane Kirkpatrick came in at one hundred pages, Harmon pod Hoort edited it down. Some magazines are writers magazines. I think Eleana makes this point, or maybe Christine, or maybe eight And you just send in whatever you send in and they check for typos, and they printed that's
not commentary commentary, was it? But I'm a different age and for me, Norman pod Horritz is one of the two key intellectual figures of sort of growing up. There's William F. Buckley and there's Norman pod Horitz. There's a National View and there's common Jerry, And I can't say this for sure.
About either of them.
But I think I can say it about both of them that if there hadn't been both of those guys, there wouldn't have been a Reagan. The Reagan Revolution was made possible by those two guys. And I'm not sure that Norman pod Hoorts that Reagan would have made it without Norman pod Hortz, because William F. Buckley had brought in and given voice to conservatives. But Norman pod Hortz
brought in the neocons. And Richard Nixon used to say all the time about Goldwater people, you can't win without them, but you.
Can't win with just them.
So Norman pod Hortz brought in the neocons and broke One of the key books of my intellectual growing up is Breaking Ranks, came out in nineteen eighty Already, you know, I sort of solidified who I was when I read Souls and Eatson. But to find out what the smart people that neo cons were thinking. I had Buckley and the regular conservatives, right, William F. Buckley, Catholic, Republican conservative Yale for many of us, kind of our guiding light.
And then Norman Podworts came in with the brass knuckles and delivered the blow to the jaw. And I mean, New York intellectual life is not for the faint of heart. And I only spent part of nineteen eighty there. But that's why Nixon, when he left San Clementy, I was working for him. Are n wanted to go back to New York because that's where the intellectual action was in the Cold War, and the Cold War went until eighty nine.
So for me, I picked up commentary at college sometime in the mid to late seventies and have never not been with it. But Norman pod Hoortz gave language to people, taught them out to think about the Soviet Union along with Reagan.
Gave Reagan language. I mean, he gave.
Jeane Kirkpatrick the job because he published Dictatorships and double standards. He published Daniel point Patrick moynihand he published James Q. Wilson, every great thinker of the seventies. In the eighties wrote for Commentary magazine and their symposium issues when they would put one question on the table and they would get fifty of the smartest people in the country to write about it, from all across the center right to the right.
He may be with Buckley the two most important American intellectuals of the last hundred years.
And I think I'm pretty comfortable saying that. More on him.
Go to the Commentary podcast today. Jay POD's not there today, but he'll be back eventually.
Read up.
I see Tom Cotton has written a tribute to Norman pod Ortz. One of the giants, really one of the giants. We shall not see their like again until people rise up to take on Jijon Ping in the Chinese communist parties.
Stay tuned, I'll be consumer.
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you use the code Hues. So whether you go to Consumer Cellular dot com, slash shoe, or you call eight hundred and four one one forty four fifty four, it's time to check no. My exit interview, My interview with John Thune, I get an EGIT interview with Glenn Younkin, and now I have my second exit interview of the day with Ohio's Attorney general and I think America's best attorney general, David Yost, who's been laboring at that or for eight years, and.
I wanted to check in with him before he left town. Uh, David Jos how are you in general and Jestic?
How are you?
Hugh? I'm good? Well, are we gonna win the National champion You're the real buck guy. I'm just a fan.
You actually went there, You get two rings.
We're going to have a great run at the National Championship.
All right, I'm going out on a limb here and saying it's going to be two rings.
General. A couple of weeks ago, before.
I get to what you're going to do next and what your greatest accomplishments are, you brought to my attention the City Club was going to cancel our friend Aaron Bear, and so I jumped on your bandwagon and they didn't cancel him. I guess they never even threatened to cancel them much. You're understanding of what happened there, but thank you for stepping into it.
Well. I appreciate you picking it up.
You put a national voice into the mix. Look, he had been invited. He's an interesting guy. He's built an incredible organization here called the Center for Christian Virtue, had been tremendously effective in the General Assembly. Doesn't win everything, but he's made a lot of progress here in Ohio. And the City Club, which fashions itself as a sitator free speech, invited him to come on January sixteenth and
address their Cleveland audience. I don't need to tell you that excuse maybe left of center a little bit a bit, and very appropriately he agreed.
And then the word.
Got out and some lgbtq IA plus activists started passing a petition and raising hell about the fact that this Christian activist was going to be allowed to come and address the City Club and asked for him to be deplatformed. Now, this is the same city club that had had a national speaker in on gay rights during Pride Month last year, So obviously they have already had that point of view in the BIGS. So it's a private organization. The First
Amendment does not apply it to them. But I urged them to not abandon their position on free speech and to not disinvite him, and that letter got out into the wild, and fortunately, after a few days of consideration, the board elected to confirm their invitation to airon He'll be talking there in Cleveland to that audience on the sixteenth of January. I was so pleased. I bought a table and I'm going to bring some of my friends to you. He at least has a couple of folks.
I will be talking it out because City Club's a good organization. I didn't want them to actually bend or break. And so good for you for leading the fight, and you've let a lot of fights. I wanted to talk to you about your eight years of Attorney General and then find out what you're going to do next, because you've won a lot of big cases, especially on religious liberty. What do you consider to be your triumphs in eight years as the age?
Dad Yost?
Well, I've got another year to go before I leave office. But you're right. I mean, we have been out there in the.
Trenches and some of the things are ones that have been national and we led the Amika's effort on the Wisconsin Catholic Charities case that was about whether the government gets to decide whether your charity work is sufficiently religious enough to qualify for a tax exemption.
Of course, Supreme Court said, no, government, you don't. You don't get to use your your determination to decide what's religious and what's not.
But I think it's maybe the stuff I'm proudest of, Hugh. It's the little stuff that doesn't make the headlines. A place called Dad's Place that stayed as a church in downtown small town here in northwest Ohio, and the powers that they didn't like them staying open all night and ministering to people who were homeless and some of them, you know, quite tragic stories, and tried to use fire code and various municipal building codes to shut them down
because they didn't want them there. First, Liberty Institute represented them, and I was proud that we weighed in as well at both the trial court level and the state appellate court level. That case was just remanded with instructions to the local court that they could not use these laws to harass Dad's Place in carrying out their their religious mission.
Yeah, or generally every time I turn.
Around again here in Ohio, go ahead, Yeah, well, every time I turn around your turn around ce Liberty.
You just did it again and again. I think you did it with the Toledo school system. I think you've done it Amika's briefs and you've been You've written a lot of letters to stop people from doing dumb things. And you do have a year left. You were going to run for governor and then you decided not to. Are you eyeing one of the new congressional districts?
No Congress is so broken, I don't want to go to Washington. Look, I'm going to stay involved in There's no shuffle board court in my immediate future.
But I'm going to be looking at some other options. Whether that's helping to.
Train young the next generation of lawyers to stand up for our constitution, or whether it's entering, you know, some sort of public interest law firm and doing some work there. When I'm done as Attorney General next year, I will stay in the fight.
Now, General, what I really wanted to ask you about?
And it's kind of sneaky, tricky, I add on the President's ais are. Yesterday, David Sachs and the President issued an executive order that I think it's unprecedented. And I asked David and he's unaware of it, of any president preempting state purporting to preem states from regulating AI out of their state legislature. They of course want to stop California from screwing up AI for everyone, just like they screwed up cars for everyone, but that had to be repealed.
You're a federalist, You're like, mister federalist, what do you think of that executive order? And David was quick to say, you know, Congress can did preempt under the Interstate Commerce Clause. I know that, but it's an EO from Article two. Just I don't know if you've even thought it through yet. But what's your initial reaction to that?
Yeah, So, actually, when I heard the first news about this, I was immediately concerned. I don't think there is such a thing as Article two preemption, but.
I understand the president's goal, and it's a worthy goal. I've got a.
Team that's tearing THEEO apart, looking at the potential legislation that we have in the General Assembly. Here at the moment, the federal government is not taking any action to prevent us from doing anything withholding any resources.
So it's a little.
Bit academic right now, But as somebody who plays an academic occasionally on the media, I have to say, I've got I've got some concerns about this.
That ultimately will be dependent upon.
How does the President attempt to.
Implement that EO?
And I question whether there's such a thing as Article two.
I've never seen one, and he can stand up task force the Department of Justice to sue for it takes to interfere with interstate commerce. But that bringing me my last question, and I'm hitting you with cold and if you haven't thought about it, you don't have to answer it. There are district court vacancies, there are six circuit vacancies coming up. Do you ever want to be a judge? You're always in the fight? Would you want to be a judge?
You know, I wouldn't have wanted to even consider that for most of my career because I'm an advocate.
I'm too passionate to be a judge, I've said.
But as I've matured a little bit, I think I might enjoy that work. Of course, questions in this day and age, are my years to advance to qualify? And I guess that's for somebody else to decide.
You know, I would say that Senators Houston and Marino. I'll bet you're good for twenty five.
Yeah.
My grandfather stayed on the bench until he was eighty eight or something like that. So he was a spiritual judge up in Jefferson County, in Ashonvilla County, in Jefferson City. And I think it would be great. And I'm glad to hear you not say no, not say yes. I want to do it, not say no, just that you would think about it. David Merry Christmas, thanks for your work on behalf of First Amendment issues and for the Center for Christian Virtue and for the Republican Attorney General's
Association across the country. And I don't think you're too long in the twoth I hope somebody listening. David Joes, thank you friend. Stay tuned, America. I'll be right back on the UWIT Show. Welcome back in America. I'm Hugh Hewitt.
Sleepy.
After the massacre in Australia, I immediately began to think of Andrew McCarthy, longtime prosecutor with the Southern District of New York. He put the blind shake fine bars and broke up the ring and convicted the ring that blew up the World Trade Center the first time. Then he wrote two books, one of them Willful Blindness. That was his first book. I interviewed him for c SPAN on
that book and then the Grand Ge. Then after the shooting at Brown I thought about him a second time, and then after the subway attack in New York, I asked Danielle, our booking producer, to please get Andy, and he's available on short notice. Andy welcome. How are you doing. I mean, it's kind of a bad day for everyone. Could Norman bot Hortz died, But how are you doing?
I'm doing fine. I was just telling General Listimo that you know, the world may be spinning off its access, but I'm fine. It's almost Christmas, so you know there's a silver lining here someplace.
I thought of you most recently before we get to the Islamicism resurgent, when I was asked to do Winners and Loser of the Week on Special Report. And I'm not a National League fan. I'm a Guardians fan, but I love the New York pet Met's New York Post cover. You gotta bereave. Did that hit hard?
That was stuff there.
That's almost up there with the Ford to New York dropped dead right.
I mean.
People the whole same.
People went out and bought three copies so they could frame them for each floor of their house.
What happened to the matter, Like, I really.
Don't know anything other than what Generalissimo tells me about the Angel and the Dodgers. I do not follow the National League. How badly bet how much did they lose?
Well? The I think the thing that frustrates most of us is that the big problem last year was the starting pitching, and that hasn't been addressed at all. I can't really you know, Searns is a smart guy, and if he looked at the core of the team and said this is not going to work, this group is not going to win a World Series, I have to say that you got to break it up. And because
that's the goal. Even though I love Alonso and I like Diaz and love Nemo, but you know, I think they're not addressing They're not addressing what the consensus he or his problem, which is starting pitching. So that's a little frustrating.
Well that's also the Angel. Even Dwayne can talk op air during the break. Actually I want to talk to during break. So next time, let's get to the key subject at hand. Bondi Beach, and then we had the New York subway incident, and in between them the shooting in Brown.
I want to go out of sequence.
What are your thoughts about the shooting at Brown Because in all the years I've been in media, it's thirty five years, there's never been a mass shooting that they didn't catch the purp within forty eight hours that I'm aware of.
Are you aware of any?
Off the top of my head, no, And I would have thought that if we were ever going to see that you I guess you know. Ramsey Usef got away with the right after the World Trade Center bombing, but we did manage to arrest some people. He was the mass of mind, but he did manage to get out
of the country. But off the top of my head, not only know, but you would think that a college campus, especially a modern American college campus, where their cameras just everywhere, you would think it would be inconceivable.
Do you think it is possible he is holding someone hostage or that someone is hiding him.
I think we can't discount anything, because it seems to me that even though they don't have a didn't have a good look at his face. With all the different technology they have, including for you know, detecting people on the basis of how they walk and other attributes, you would think they could have struck gold with that, with the image that they did have, even if it wasn't facial.
So you would hope that even though they're not, you know, they're holding back information, you would hope that they've narrowly got the circle now of potential suspects, and if they haven't been able to nab the person, that means that, you know, anything could be going on that we you know, it'd be vacant speculation. What worries me is that they don't have a suspect, and I hope that's not true.
Are you alarmed that they won't tell us what he was yelling in the room and everyone's speculating.
I'm not.
But he was shouting something and it appears he targeted a few people and didn't shoot other people.
What's that add up to you?
I am distressed that they haven't told us what the guy was yelling. I mean, I'm as aware as you are at the speculation about what it is and if it is, if it is indicative of jihadis terrorism. That's a piece of information that you would think they would put out. I have to say, you know, putting out the picture of the second person, I really hope they were very clear that that is not a person who's a suspect, that it's just someone they think may have
information or may have seen something that's that's relevant. But I must say, if you're going to put out that kind of obscure information to the public, and yet you have something he was yelling while he was shooting, and you're withholding that, I don't understand that at all.
Yeah, that makes there are I know, two real lawyers, you and Kurt, and they're on both coachs, and you both say the same thing. I don't know anything about criminal law or the FBI getting involved. By the way, do you think the Bureau is involved and they're just not telling us they're not at the press conferences.
I think you that what may have happened here is they really did kind of botch the first seventy two hours of the Charlie Kirk aftermath. And what I'm hoping is that they oh the aftermath of that, talked about discipline and message discipline and let's not say anything or rear our heads till we have something helpful to contribute, because otherwise they just look inept. So I think it would be if that was the after action review after
the Charlie Kirk comicide. I think that's the that's beneficial.
Okay, Now drawing the camera way out the three thousand feet do you tie up Bondai Beach with the New York City Subway? The Ani Semite's going after the Habadniks? Are we see an anti Semitism having its renaissance, its resurgence?
Yeah, see don't. I've never seen it that way. And you mentioned my books earlier. That interview we did almost twenty years ago.
I know it's remarkable about.
Eighteen years ago, but I enjoyed that interview so much because we were able to talk about how in the that was in the aftermath, even though the case happened in ninety five, it was in the aftermath of nine to eleven, and the big difference then and I still think it's true, is that in our courtroom, presided over by Michael Mukasey, then a district judge later President Bush's Attorney General, there wasn't political correctness, and we were able
to show the Drury a straight line between doctrine animating figures like the blind Shake and the effect that it had on young Muslims, and we were not forced to
shy away from the doctrinal aspects of this. In later years, the government tried to tamp down on the ideological basis for all this because they thought that we couldn't walk into gum like if they said this was an interpretation of Islam, we were somehow smearing every Muslim on the planet, which was ridiculous so to me because I had to go to school on that stuff back in the early nineties. This is Doc trinl. This is what the doctrine is.
And if you're going to have immigration policies and other policies that enable a critical mass of immigrants from fundament menalist Islamic countries and from hotbeds of radical Islam, and you're gonna let them collect in the big cities, not only in the United States but Europe, you're going to get it.
I'm going to talk with Andy during the break, we'll put it on the podcast, and then he's coming back after the break, so I'll saved Australian response for after that o'cock doctrines during the break stay tuned America Andrews McCarthy on x Andy.
In recent.
Months years, actually since ten seven in Israel, I've become quite a fan of Haviv reddhig Gore, and like you, he's always wanting to talk about the doctrine because it's his belief. You can't understand, i'mascuse me, or any part of the Jihad until you get Katub and the whole fundamentalist Wahabism down.
Have you followed him, I have.
I agree with him. I've actually listened to a number of your interviews with him, and through that became more of an avid follower. I think he's excellent, but I think what he would say, not to put words in his mouth, is that this is pretty straightforward. What probably frustrates him, as it frustrates me, is it's such an
obvious point. You know. I wrote a book called The Grand Jihad, which was about the Muslim Brotherhood ideology and its operations in the West, and I pointed out that the most successful project of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is almost in the United States from like to the eighties, on was dedicated to the flourishing of Hamas. Hamas is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. But the most successful project that they had in the West was the
Muslim Students Associations. In fact, they started with a handful of chapters in the mid nineteen sixties and they now have one hundreds of chapters across North America, in the United States and Canada. And that is not a social organization, that's a program. And my point is like, there are a lot of people who woke up after ten seven and they couldn't believe the campus activism. And I just shook my head and said, you know, if you let
this go on for three generations. And that program was so successful it gave way to another organization, the North American Islamic Society. I'm probably screwing up the name, but the thing was, the Muslim Students Associations were so successful they had to have a successor organization, which is now the biggest Islamist organization in North America because so many people went through the program. So don't I don't. I'm not remotely surprised by this. Which surprises me is that
people don't want to understand what they believed. If you can think about like if we went into World War two and we didn't want to know what the Nazis believed or what the Shinto Japanese believed, we would all say that was insane, that you couldn't protect the country without knowing what the enemy was trying to accomplish. And yet here it's like institutionalized and always has been that we have to put our head in this thing.
You know that that's very well said when you say it again on the other side, Andy, not wanting to know what the other side.
Believes is suicidal.
And I got a letter from Harvard yesterday, an email asking for money or telling me that Graver is going to be the president. And you know in that letter they said, and he will continue the efforts against anti Semitism and anti Arab discrimination. And I thought, good lord, nothing's changed. There is no anti Arab discrimination in Harvard. Not the problem. I'll be right back on the other side with Andrew C. McCarthy. We'll talk about Australia and when the when is it going to happen in the
United States. Stay tuned, Welcome back in America. I'm Hugh Hewitt with Andrews C. McCarthy, Fox News contributor, author of Wilful Blindness, The Grand Gid. He has also got his own podcast with Rich Lowry, The McCarthy Report. Uh Andy, it's I've got six minutes When and and Does an Australian shootout like the one that happened on Saturday in Australia at Bondey Beach happen in the United States?
Do you think.
Happily? I think that there's less chance of it. I'm not going to say that there's there's zero chances of it. But the big difference view I think between the United States and Europe, Canada and Australia is we don't have anything like no zones here. So far. The police, whether it's federal or municipal police, have not essentially surrendered sovereignty in particular areas where where you have cauldrons of jihadism.
That's where you would expect this stuff to blossom. And what they've done in Europe, you know, this was Shake Caradali's strategy. He was the shake use of Carradali was the kind of the beacon for the Muslim brotherhood. His idea was to tell Muslims integrate but don't assimilate, form up enclaves in major cities in the West, and once you get to a critical mass, agitate in order to
have Sharia autonomy in the local area. And once they've gotten to critical mass in a number of places, they're very hostile to the police and other agents of the States. And when you have an environment like that, that's where the thementalists preaching can take place, the recruitment, the fundraising, and it lends itself to an atmosphere where you can
actually train for Gihatti's activities. The difference mainly between successful and unsuccessful jihadist plots is training where you can have it. You're much more likely to have terrorist attacks. Where the police can infiltrate, you're much less likely to have them now.
And I know you've been a critic of the Trump Justice Department on a lot of different things. Do you think the Bureau and DOJ and State Attorney are they on my lookout for this? Are they still where we were on a nine to twelve. I think it's gone away, but I could just be blind to the fact that it's better than I think it is, and it's everywhere surveillance and infiltration.
Yeah, I think the FBI and the Justice Department in this administration are less apt to be captured by political correctness, and they won't be afraid to take a shot if there's you know, they won't be afraid to be proactive. I mean, I think this plot that they just broke up, the New Year's Day plot shows that I think they'll be active. I think this is the kind of thing they'll be good on. I worry about how well the
President grasps suria supremacism. You know, we're back to talking about the ideology again, because I think sometimes the President thinks that everybody has a price and everybody, you know, can look beyond ideology and other things they care about. And I think there's a lot of evil actors in the worldview that you know, they're just they're captured by evil ideology and they're not looking to make a deal.
Yeah.
I still ask first time guests if they've read The Looming Tower. I've been doing that since Lawn's Right wrote it. An astonishing number of people don't even know what it is. Some people have said they've read a part of it or heard about it and want to read it, But I I really think it's been twenty five years, right, yep?
Are we off our guard again?
Well, it's a natural phenomenon when you go through a spate of time, you know. I think it's pretty remarkable that we haven't had a reprise of nine to eleven, given how hard they've tried. But the one thing I can say, and I you know, we're looking for a silver lining, hear you, I'll say this, the cooperation between law enforcement and intelligence and the way that they take information from the public and move it up the chain is night and day better today than it was in
nineteen ninety three. And I think haven't had a reprise is because the guys on it, no matter what the political people are saying, the guys on the front line to do this, the intelligence guys, the cops, the FBI agents in the field, they actually do a good job and they share information with vital.
And the last silver lining we got thirty seconds. Do you think some of the Muslim majority countries are also all in with us and stopping the Brotherhood?
No, I mean I think that the regimes are, But like Egypt is a very difficult country for us because the regime is more or less pro American and pro Western, but it's a cauldron of fundamentalist Islam. It's the population, all right.
Realism is what we get with Andy.
I hope you take back the pen and I'll listen to McCarthy report this week when you and Rich get together, because it's going to be one for the ages. I think Andrew C. McCarthy on X the mccarthury Report wherever podcasts are, Thank you and a Merry Christmas, Andy, maybe the Mets will put a pitching a tree.
Under your tree for you. Thank you friend. Don't go anywhere America. I'll be right back. It's beginning to go up like Christmas, Ey, were you Welcome back America.
I'm Hugh Hewitt's actually beginning to look like the Bad Santa Movie. In the House of Representatives, it requires two hundred and eighteen signatures on a discharge petition to get a piece of legislation onto the House floor. Democrats have rounded up four Republicans to get a three year no
Questions asked extension of the Obamacare subsidies. Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania, Rob Reresnehan of Pennsylvania, Ryan Mackenzie, a Pennsylvania and our old friend maybe not any longer, Micha Lawler of New York. And so now the discharge petition has enough. I'm joined by Sarah Bedford, Washington Examiner, political investigative reporter. Merry Christmas, Sarah, how are you.
Merry Christmas? Thanks for having me.
I'm always good to see you. Can they take their name off that discharge petition?
Not once a discharge position petition has reached two hundred and eighteen signatures. If they had a change of heart before the discharge petition had gathered enough signatures, then they could have done so. But it's frozen. It's locked in once they hit the two eighteen number. And so at this point, no, none of those four Republicans. It doesn't look like they would be able to remove their signatures.
What if they quit, because it's just quicker they can get their office moved out sooner because they're all going to lose. I mean, I'm as partisan as they come, but when you screw your party this way, this is pretty This is like the guys who tossed on McCarthy, only on the other end of the caucus.
Well, there's a perennial complaint especially among conservatives, right that moderates do things that depress the base overall for everyone in order to save seats that they may not even be able to hang on to either way, So you
might as well fight for conservative principles. The way that the Republican Party has handled this moment with the expiration of the ACA subsidies is really baffling to a lot of servatives because they've had many, many years to come up with ideas to perform a healthcare program that they've been criticizing for more than a decade now, and yet they're scrambling at this last moment, and you have moderates like Fitzpatrick saying that a clean extension of the substace
is better than no extension, which is not a very traditionally conservative position, And yeah, it's really angering to a lot of other Republicans.
Yeah, there is not a prayer that it will ever get through the Senate. And I think these four were you know, I gave and so did a lot of people cover for them when they wanted assault cap increase because I understand the districts in the Northeast and all that, but then to turn around and vote for a dead on a rival bill, so all they want it's just really showmanship.
Right.
If there's a good case to be made for this, you can tell it to me. I am unaware of it.
No.
I mean, there are the more viable proposals in the House that have things like income caps or expanding hsas and things that would get other Republicans to get on board, and that wouldn't be seen as a sort of betrayal of principles. And this really does sort of look like a middle finger to leadership because Speaker Johnson had said he wasn't going to bring any of these compromises to
the floor. I Fitzpatrick said, you know, I really tried to get some of my bipartisan or you know, more centrist compromises to the floor, and when that didn't happen, then I had to kind of just be like, screw you, I'll go aside with the Democrats. And you know, Johnson was sort of put in an impossible position here, right because Trump and Jade Vance they didn't run on cutting.
Subsidies for people.
Right.
But at the same time, it is not anywhere in the conservative playbook to allow a COVID era subsidy like this to continue. To prop up a broken healthcare system, and so leadership the White House was in a really awful position here. But they really did get undermined by these marporate members.
I think it is the mirror of Matt Gates and his knucklehead caucus what they did when they threw Kevin McCarthy out, which is they wanted some attention, the attention economy. They threw a fit. They threw out the most effective fundraiser of the Republican Party they've ever had, and they got nothing. Mike Johnson is a wonderful speaker, is a good speaker, but Lawler is and they're not going to
get anything out of it. If there was any way that they would get anying out of this, I would say, okay, but it's not good politics.
It's terrible paulitics. They'll probably get a primary challenge, will they.
Well, the four of them are probably concerned about staying in Congress, right, And that's the only point of difference that I would say with Matt Gates, he was running in a very heavily Republican district. He never had a fear for his reelection prospects, whereas these four are probably quite nervous about what's going to happen in November, and confident that it would be really difficult for anyone to primary them from the right.
In those really competitive districts.
That they may end up losing no matter what they do, But that was likely. The calculation here is that they fear leaderships not looking out for their interests heading into upbraaking.
They think that the Republican Party had no choice but to support them because they're wrong.
Well, I think that they were.
Probably They probably don't fear a primary challenge from the right that would be extremely difficult in a district like Lawlors, for example, in New York, which is very competitive.
Come I got maybe maybe that's the case.
But come November twenty sixth, and the NRCC has to spend money and people want airtime and they're begging for help. Those four don't get any Sarah, I'll talk to you one more time. Be poor Christmas, stay well. No one else is Sarah Bedford.
Thank you, mich