Our foremothers, they might have taught us to be some a a particular way or or do something in a particular way because they knew that we would have to have that protection as we went out into the world. So I never wanna discount that. I think it's a really real thing with all people, and I think especially with those of us who have marginalized identities. Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute.
I am Drew Horning, host of this short but special series with guests who are not graduates of the Hoffman process, but whose life's work is harmonious with the work and ethos of the process. As you settle in to explore this new terrain, just please keep in mind that the views and ideas expressed by our guests do not necessarily represent the views of the Hoffman Institute.
However, we think you will find these conversations very interesting, very thought provoking, and we're really glad you're here and hope you enjoy this conversation. Podcast. Nyla Blades is with us. Welcome, Nyla. Hello. Thank you for having me. We are excited for this conversation. Nyla, you are a leadership and life coach, and you help people tap into their power build lives that are whole and good and full of possibility, and you also integrate the outdoors.
Lots of your work is about being outdoors and using the outdoors to help people, I guess these are my words, come home to themselves, the power, the possibility of their lives. And you specialize in working with women of color, black and brown women. What else would you add to that introduction? Yeah. You know, that's that's exactly it. So really just helping women, especially women of color to, I you know, exactly what you said,
come home to themselves. And I think that there are so many things in our world that take us away from who we are at our core. So really supporting women to be able to reengage with who they are, and a lot of that I do through the power of the outdoors. So how did you get there? Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and how this became the thing you do? Yeah. Absolutely. So I I became certified as a life and leadership coach. Oh, gosh. It's been over a decade
now, which is wild to think about. And I went through the certification process because I was at that point where I had felt like I had checked all the boxes. Right? So I had done all the things. I had gone to school. I got good grades. I went to the good college. I got a good job. And still it just felt like something was missing. And I just started to do a lot of soul searching and just really trying to
figure out what was going on. Why did I feel so empty when I had done all the things you're supposed to do to to be a a successful person? And that brought me to coaching. And I saw as I was doing research, a lot of the people who I admired and a lot of the people who I was like, gosh. I think they're living a life that I would like to live. When I started doing more digging, I found out that they were coaches in some way. So that's what brought me to coaching.
And what specifically brought me to leadership coaching was that at the time, I had a really awful manager. So that was it just made me really curious about what does it take to be a good leader and what does that look like. So I I started doing a lot of just interrogation and thinking around that. Went back and got a master's in communication and leadership studies, and that's what really helped me to bring leadership coaching together and kind of sit down that path.
And I think the kind of third piece of that puzzle is the outdoors. And I have always been, you know, I think kind of an outdoorsy adventurous person, but I think it really solidified for me when my family and I, we moved from Southern California, where I primarily grew up, to Salt Lake City, Utah, which you could imagine is a huge transition, a really big cultural shift. And I think the really beautiful thing about being in Salt Lake City is that they do have a tremendous outdoor culture.
And I think when I got here, I was like, I could either be sad and I could be moping at home and be upset that I'm away from my family and friends and everything that I knew, or I can really dive feet first into this culture and start to explore and start to make it my own. And as I was just exploring my new home, I just started to really recognize the impact, the positive impact that being just being outdoors
had on me. And just a lot of the things that I was trying to, you know, think through in my brain and and start to figure out, they kinda just came really naturally the more time I spent outdoors. So that was how I kinda started to infuse the outdoors into the into the mix as well. Do you have a a moment in time in the Salt Lake City area where you remember what you saw, where you were as a kind of beginning point of waking up to the outdoors?
Yeah. You know, I think it was it really was just, you know, going on a hike in the mountains near my my home, and I had been just thinking about so many things. I had felt that I had gotten to a point where I was building this business again, a feeling that, like, why am I not feeling as fulfilled as I should? And and really it was just that, you know, the way I was building it and the way I was chasing after success, I was kinda just building another job for myself.
I was really trying to figure this out again. So I was at another moment of, like, what's going on, and and how can I really get back on the path that feels a lot more fulfilling and a lot more in tune with who I am? And I just remember being on one of the hiking paths and things just feeling a lot more clear, just getting a lot more clarity, just feeling that kind of reconnection with, you know, who I really am and the path I should be taking, and it
felt really easy. And I that's when I kinda had that, like, this is part of it. You know? This is this is helping me to get to that, like, meditative space and to get to that space where I do feel like I could tap back into to who I really am without a lot of the noise. You know, in the process, the Hoffman process, we talk about engaging and using our bodies, being connected to this part of us that's really important, using our voice and using our body expression
is such an important piece. And part of what you're saying is that all that thinking that you had done prior to being outdoors didn't get you where you wanted to be, but that on that path that you were on outside of Salt Lake City in the mountains, it all just sort of crystallized, fell in in kind of a more natural, easeful way.
Exactly. I am so good at thinking, and I did all of the thinking and the and the journaling and the talking and, you know, listening to to other experts and all of that stuff that's up here, you know, up in our brains. And I was very disconnected from my body and my voice and, just all of those things that we naturally are as humans. And getting outside really allowed me to drop back into my body in a very effortless way. And that's when things started to just, like, click into place. And I was
like, oh, there's something here. There's something about getting outside of our our homes and our offices and getting outside of all the noise and really being able to drop into our bodies. And and like you said, like, think about our voice and hear our voice and feel our bodies and just really feel all of those sensations. Nyla, why black women? Why is this such an important piece for for everybody, but in particular black women?
Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's an important piece for, like you said, everyone and then for women. And then I think, especially for, women of color because we are working with a lot of different layers of marginalization. So it's like, you know, as a woman, I'm I'm going through the world, and I'm experiencing a lot of the things that are causing me to, you know, kind of like subdue my voice or not not be as loud or not be myself. And, there's lots
of conditioning there. And also as a black woman, there's an additional layer of that conditioning and those just kind of like calls to shrink myself. And especially being in Salt Lake City, which is not a super diverse place, being able to recognize what was going on with me by being outdoors. And I was like, other women, other women of color, especially in such a a white city need this as well.
And so I think that's why I really focused in on women of color and leaders of color was because I really felt that outsized need for them to also be able to find ways to reconnect with who they are and tap back into their voice because I think that we just live in a world that kind of excels in helping us to tamp that down. So I think any way that we could find the ways that we can really step into who we are and step into ourselves fully is really important.
And I think also just the symbolism of, you know, the outdoor space is a very white space as well, or it's been marketed as a white space. I don't think it actually is. But the way that the outdoors is marketed and we think of, you know, white guys in Patagonia puffy, zip ups and things like that.
So I think that there is something very symbolic and very powerful about taking up space in a space that's not traditionally, you know, quote unquote for you and being able to say, here I am in the outdoors, you know, as a woman of color and, you know, taking up this space and being able to translate that back into our our day to day lives. You know, I'm thinking about you leading these trips. Is that part of what you do?
Will you describe a little bit about what it looks like when you take black and brown people, women of color into the outdoors? Yeah. So it is a lot. There's lots of different ways that I approach the work. Some of it is I've had a meetup group for years, and it's just a free meetup group. And we just go on adventures. So we just go on hikes or we go snowshoeing or, we do all these different
things. But the way that I also work 1 on 1 with people and then also in groups So if I'm doing a retreat, it's definitely going to be in a place where we do have access to nature, and we are able to really, connect to some of these things. Also, having the adventures, having the space to explore outdoors, having the space to try something new that you maybe haven't done before. Also, doing that with a group of supportive women who understand, you know, they kind of
get where you're coming from. And then also having some of that one on one coaching space. So it really is, you know, the group aspect, the outdoor aspect, and then also 1 on 1 coaching. There's a piece of belonging that this word is coming up for me so that this is their space too. This is yours. This open space that we've worked so hard in this country to create and preserve, this actually belongs to you too, ladies,
feeling that it's theirs. Do you have that sense of a shared ownership when you lead these trips? Yes. Absolutely. And I think, that is something where it's, you know, we belong here too. This is also our space. And, again, you know, there's so many barriers to entry for, just people of color and the outdoors. So there's structural things. There's systemic things. You know, there's historic things that have happened in our country. Historically, the outdoors have not been a safe place
for people of color. So there are lots of real barriers to entry. There are lots of real reasons why people of color, women of color might not feel safe in the outdoors. So that's not to disregard any of that. That's very real. And we also belong outdoors. Our ancestors were, you know, outside. They were outdoors. They worked the lands. They had this connection with nature, and throughout history, it's gotten severed.
So there is that sense of belonging that we belong here too, and this is also a space that, you know, we should feel free to be able to occupy. Nyla, you're working on both the personal one to one level where you get close and intimate with people as you help them transform and change.
You're working in small group environments where you're aware of the group dynamic and leading people in a group setting, but you're also working systemically, battling against historical forces, rewriting the story on a larger level as well. Do you see those multiple layers that you're fighting this journey? Yeah. Absolutely. And I I, you know, really do you know, I appreciate you bringing that up, and I really do think about the community aspect. So I think it is kind
of a a one on one. It's small groups. And then I really do believe that just by me being able to do this work and being able to touch, even if it's a handful of women, but then those women go back to their communities, and they're able to to share, and they're able to take their kids or their nephews or their cousins outdoors or or just community members. And I think that it really does have a ripple effect. So even by one of us being able to say, like, yeah, you know,
I belong outdoors. I'm I'm kind of reclaiming this back for myself. It has those ripples. You know, I myself, I have 2 small children, and that's something that I've always been really cognizant of is by doing this work, I'm helping to create a world where it won't be necessary. You know, I'm kinda hoping I can work myself out of a job where they get older and they're just like, yeah. This is just
a part of life. It's a part of life to be connected to nature and be connected to the outdoors and to see other people who look like me as I'm outside enjoying the space. So I think that there is a little bit of that ripple effect and that kind of community building by doing this work. It's an interesting thing to have as a goal that at some point, you won't be needed anymore because you've fulfilled why you do this work in the 1st place.
Yes. I hope so. I hope that from, you know, kind of that outdoor and and that representation space that I'm able to work myself out of a job. And I also hope, just a standpoint, you know, as a coach, that my services become less necessary because, you know, I think so much of the work that I'm doing is helping people to unlearn things. We are born and we're perfect, and we're these beautiful little beings when we're smaller, and then we take on so much
stuff. You know? We take on stuff from our family, from our parents, from our siblings, from society at large, from, you know, school, all of the things we take on. And it, I think a lot of times, especially for those of us who are socialized as women, we take these things on and it it makes us smaller and it teaches us to be small and not use our voice and not to show up as ourself.
Personally, as as a mom to to small kids and then also as a coach, I feel like a lot of that work is me supporting people to unlearn these things and kind of go back to, you know, what was that kind of natural programming that would feel so natural to you
that got subdued for some reason. So I think that as a coach, it also excites me that hopefully in the future, we do have societies that support individuals to just show up as who they are and that we're we don't have to do this deep work later in our lives to unpack that and to get back to that that core being. I appreciate you bringing up the unlearning.
Many people talk about, you know, the need to learn, the need to shape the future, But an important part of that is the unlearning of the historical stuff that prevented you from doing it in the first place. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's a big part of personal development is really just,
you know, being able to say, hey. How can I actually just step into my strengths and step into my story and, really step into who I am when I don't feel like I have to protect myself or I don't feel like I have to live up to someone else's model? When you said have to protect myself, that's an important thing to highlight here, isn't it? That women of color have been very vulnerable historically in our society.
Yeah. Historically and and even currently, I've been really vulnerable, and we we have these protection measures, and and that's why, you know, I I never want to take anyone's protection measure away. You know? These things are there for a reason, and and we do have to learn have that awareness that they're there and and what they're doing and say, oh, hey. There's that protection mechanism that's popping up. What's going
on? And then we could have, more of that awareness and that intention around shifting it when it feels really safe. But I think those things are there for a reason, and they show up culturally for a reason. And a lot of times our, you know, our our foremothers, you know, they might have taught us to be some a a particular way or or do something in a particular way because they knew that we would have to have that protection as we went out into the world. So
I never wanna discount that. I think it's a really real thing with all people, and I think especially with those of us who have, like, marginalized identities. And so when you're out in the wilderness on those trails, I imagine those protection measures might show up. Do our people afraid, afraid of the heights, afraid of sounds, afraid of animals coming? I imagine for first timers out in wilderness, that can be a scary experience. Yeah. You know, the outdoors are scary. There's, there's
animals. And, my family and I, we just went to Wyoming for a camping trip, and that's bear country. You have to be bear aware. So there's always that sense of, like, okay. You know, I have to make sure I'm I'm doing certain things to protect myself and keeping an extra eye out, being vigilant. And I think that that does translate to when people go outside, outdoors for the first
time, that vigilance is very high. So they're worried about things like animals or or, like you said, heights or cliffs or getting stuck somewhere or other people? You know? Are you gonna run into someone on a hiking path that has ill intent and is gonna cause you harm? So I think that a lot of times, a lot of that work both kind of pre, like a retreat or an event, and then also during is saying like, hey. I understand. We all understand.
We feel like why your vigilance is high and why you're protecting yourself, and, you know, here are ways that we can support each other in that so that we can still get outside and have a good time together. In group things is helpful for that as well. So just knowing, like, oh, I'm going out with the group and not, like, I'm trying to venture out on my own for the first time, I think that that helps to bring a lot of that down just naturally. Their nervous systems calm down a little.
So, Naila, I'm so curious. Take us into an experience where you've brought these women out. The angst is there. They're afraid, and they push through it, and something magical happens. Can you sort of give us some examples of some of the moments in time where you've led these women into the wilderness and some beautiful change has happened?
There's just so many beautiful changes. I mean, I think one really thing that, stands out in my mind, and it was had to do around just the concept of rest and the fact that we're able to take the time to rest. We don't always have to be working hard and striving hard and showing up. And I had a woman come to one of my retreats, and she, you know, she was a pediatrician. She had 3 small kids, and also she was a military spouse. So she had a lot of things on her
plate. You know, we were really focusing on that rejuvenation and rest and how we can get that from being outdoors and unplugging. And that was a big theme of the entire retreat. And I remember her saying, at one point, we were just having kind of, like, you know, just downtime. So there wasn't anything planned. You could kinda go off and do what you want. And she went and took a nap.
And later on when I just followed up with her after the retreat, and she was, like, being able to just decide to go take a nap was really, powerful for her. And it sounds like such a simple silly thing, but, because we were focused on just that power of rest and the power of the connection that comes with nature, she felt empowered to be like, no. This is what I need for myself. I'm just going to go and take a nap. And I thought that that was really special.
You know, other things that we've seen is just I host a ski event. So it's a woman of color ski event. So we come together. We go to a a really beautiful ski resort, and we take a ski lesson together. And then, we spend the afternoon kind of like skiing or playing in the snow or, drinking hot chocolate. Just kind of, you know, being in connection and and,
community with one another. And I always hear such beautiful connections where I've had women say, like, I was going through a really hard time personally and being able to do this thing. You know, get on skis and ski down a mountain and, like, you know, learn how to do this thing that felt so difficult and so foreign, helped to translate that into their just regular life where it's like, oh, you know, I can do hard
things or I can figure this out. I'm powerful in this way, and I you know, I'm able to do these things. So I always love those kind of connections where it's like, oh, wow. I didn't think that me learning how to ski or me going camping for the first time or any of these things, you know, on the face of it, it just seems like, oh, that's a, you know, a very isolated
fun activity that we're doing. But a lot of times, I hear those connections of how women are connecting it back to their their regular life, and it's really exciting to see. Nela, I wanna ask about your kids. I'm imagining them loving the outdoors. You were in Wyoming. You've probably gone other places. What's it like for them as little people to head out? Do they just love the outdoors? They do, which is, it's so fun to see.
You know, they are they're just great. So I my daughter is 9 and my son is 6. So they're, at a great age now where they could kinda do things on their own. It's really beautiful to see. I think we've laid a really, wonderful foundation for them where they, you know, they love camping or and we'll go camping and they get dirty and they, you know, they're just running in the trees and they just feel really free and,
and excited to be there. And they don't need their devices, and they're not thinking about, their friends or, you know, anything like that. I love seeing them in that state because I I'm hoping that it's creating just this really strong foundation for the rest of their life. That they know that they can always connect to the outdoors in that way and that they can disconnect. They don't always have to be plugged in to our world.
You know, as a white guy, white hetero male, I'm curious about what you wish people like me got. Is there something that you might say to white men out there, like, regarding the work you do, or it's something you wish we understood? I think it's just that basic level of empathy so that, you know, you can understand that the work like this is necessary.
You know, I think that a lot of times the thing that I come up against is people, like, you know, white men or even some white women, less less white women, but, you know, saying things like, oh, the outdoors already belongs to everybody, or, you know, yeah. All you have to do is get outside. Like, just kind of downplaying the importance of what we're doing. And, you know, there's other groups and other coaches who are doing similar work to just, kind of diversify the outdoors and and have that
understanding of, like, hey, we belong outdoors. So I think just that that kind of level of empathy to recognize that people have different experiences and things are difficult for other people depending on all types of reasons and that this work actually is necessary. And it's not just, you know, the silly thing. It's not always as easy as saying like, oh, yeah. I'm gonna claim the outdoors. That doesn't always come easy to
people depending on all types of things. So I think just that understanding that it is necessary for all types of reasons. And that it's not as easy as just saying, well, it's yours. Claim it. Go do it. That there are historical barriers that have been in place that make it a lot more challenging and that as white men, we should have empathy for those experiences. Yeah. I think it comes down to it
that. It's, you know, having the empathy. People just have different lived experiences and it impacts people in different ways, and that's okay. So I think having that base level
of understanding of that. Have you encountered people, non women of color, on trails and in the outdoors where you can see some shifting in their perspective that coming across these women in this group experience has had a positive impact on the white people or the people who normally take up space in the outdoors to have them have a positive experience in the interactions they've had with your groups? I think so.
You know, I think definitely, like, when we do the ski event, I always go to the same resort because I love it, and it's a little smaller. It's, Sundance Resort here in Utah. But I definitely think you see that realization in their eyes. Like, oh, wow. I've never seen such a big group of women of color coming out to ski or, same with hiking or, you know, any of the things that we do. So I think you definitely see that, like, that realization that, like, oh, this looks different than what
I may be used to. So I I think I've definitely seen that before in, people's eyes or just their reactions. A lot of times, you do get those questions of like, oh, what are you all doing out here? Which is always interesting because it's like, well, why wouldn't we be out here? You know, there's lots of different groups of people who are are out here, experiencing the outdoors. So sometimes we do get those questions of like, hey. What's going on?
What, you know, what is this? Is this something different or special that you all are all out here? Naila, where do you get your inspiration? Writers, poets, musicians, you mentioned that there are other leaders doing this work with women of color, but but I imagine you're somewhat of a pioneer in this field. Where do you get your inspiration?
Yeah. So, you know, I think I get a lot of inspiration from people like Bell Hooks and Audre Lorde who talk a lot about just this concept of rest and what it means for black women to really reclaim rest and and restoration and to be able to just be. So I know I get a lot of inspiration from, you know, authors and philosophers like that. I also get a lot of inspiration from, an author, Adrienne Maree Brown. She talks a lot about just kind of, like, emergent strategies and biomimicry.
Essentially, how can we live in ways that are a little bit more emergent, and how can we kind of dream into a new future for ourselves. And and some of that does go back to things like biomanry where it's like, you know, the world and plants and animals. They're all doing their thing. So how can we kind of look to that for inspiration, of how we can be looking moving forward in our lives?
There's lots of other groups who are doing similar types of work, whether it's like Outdoor Afro or Latino Outdoors. There's a group called Unlikely Hikers. There's all kinds of groups who are doing similar work, and I think I draw a lot of inspiration from that knowing that there are communities of people who believe in this work and who are, excited to support others as they kind of start their journey on it. Is there a conference or a workshop of those facilitators, leaders coming together to
connect in their own way? There isn't, but there should be. I mean, that there isn't one that I'm aware of. But I think that a lot of times will come together at different types of events, but I don't think there's one specific to those leaders. But that would be a really wonderful experience. I I would love that. I would love to be able to just sit and talk with other people about this type of work. What else do you wanna share before we wrap?
Yeah. Well, I had the the just honor and pleasure of writing a book. So I had a book come out earlier this year. It's called Joyful by Nature, and it's all about, supporting women, women of color to, come back home to themselves through outdoor adventure. So, yeah, just love to to hype that up and pub that, and that can be found basically anywhere books are sold, both the physical copy and also the ebook version. So definitely would like to to shout that out. We'll put that in our show notes,
a link to that book. By the way, it has a fantastic cover. It's so colorful, and I don't know. I was immediately drawn to it. Oh, wonderful. Yes. Yeah. So the illustrator did a beautiful job that that had nothing to do with me, but they did a wonderful job. And, there's lots of illustrations throughout the book as well. And also just lots of exercises so that someone who is on this journey to just kinda come back to themselves and rediscover themselves, they can use the book as
a launching point for that. Nada, what's it like for you to do this work to facilitate these retreats, to bring these women together? What do you notice happening inside you as you do this work? I feel really privileged. I feel really privileged, and I have a deep immense of gratitude to be able to to do work like this. You know, I think that this is the work that I meant to be doing.
And I know that not everyone has the opportunity to do that to, you know, really be able to do kind of like their souls work. And I really believe that this is what it is for me. So I I just always feel very privileged, whenever I have that opportunity to to work with people, whether it's 1 on 1 or on a group or when I hear that something that I've said or written or done has had a positive impact on someone, I just yeah. Just a deep, deep immense gratitude.
And I feel really privileged and honored that I'm able to do this. And I don't think, you know, when I was sitting in my cubicle way back when trying to figure out, like, hey, what's going on with me? What is this? You know, I don't think I could have imagined this in my in my wildest dreams. And I think it's something that's always evolving and, you know, I'm always learning and doing
different things. And I just don't think that that younger version of myself who had felt so unhappy and so disconnected and so unfulfilled, I don't think she could have imagined this. So I I think it's really beautiful to get to this point. That's fantastic. You have some great posts on Instagram. We'll put those in there. Nyla, speaking of gratitude, I'm grateful for this time, this conversation, your heart as you reveal it to us sharing the work you do. Thank you. Oh,
thank you so much. This was so beautiful, and thank you for having me on. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Razi Grassi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves, in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hompaninstitute.org.