Everybody's been through Hoffman as experienced that relevatory kind of experience of I am a being, and I'm not harnessed to my identity as a trauma source or a trauma vessel. I have an identity that preceded the trauma, and it's unaffected by the trauma. Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute.
I am Drew Horning, host of this short but special series with guests who are not graduates of the Hoffman Process but whose life's work is harmonious with the work and ethos of the process. As you settle in to explore this new terrain, just please keep in mind that the views and ideas expressed by our guests do not necessarily represent the views of the Hoffman Institute.
However, we think you will find these conversations very interesting, very thought provoking, and we're really glad you're here and hope you enjoy this conversation. Some of the conversations in this episode touch upon health and we want you to know that what is shared is strictly for informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice.
Please always seek the guidance of your physician or any other qualified health professional with any questions you have regarding your health or a medical condition. Welcome everybody to the Hoffman Podcast. Zach Busch is with us. Zach, it's great to have you. What a pleasure to be with you and your whole audience. Doctor. Zach Busch, I should say. I apologize. Zach works for me. Okay. You're a physician specializing in internal medicine, but you've also
written books. You're an educator, a thought leader around health and disease and food systems. Can you share a little bit about what you do? How do you describe what you do, Zach? I think, ultimately, I'm an
observer of nature. I I was trained as a scientist, and through 17 years of academic medicine, I was trained through the study of disease to to be witness to aspects of human biology that ultimately led me in a path after after leaving the university about 14 years ago into a deeper exploration of where health comes from.
And so I was able to turn that microscope around into really a telescope ultimately and start looking deep into the bigger natures around us and then out into the cosmos as well with these deep inquiries into how does life occur on a planet that floats in vacuum space? How do is it that the miraculous nature of nature occurs here? How has that unfolded?
And it's been a a real journey, through my biomedical background, which was really based initially in internal medicine, but then ultimately into endocrinology and metabolism, which was setting both the way in which hormones basically constitute and create a connected symphony of complex cellular systems, organ systems into a single organism? And then how is that organism powered by nature through the mitochondria, which is these tiny little bacteria that live inside of ourselves?
And so this organic garden of soil that lives inside ourselves powers us into our capacity for life. And so that was my background in, you know, studying cancer and the rest as to how the failure of soil inside of ourselves can lead to health or disease. And then, you know, as I exited the academia into nutrition world, started the concept of reversing chronic disease through nutrition was a new
thing for me. Practicing, you know, 40 years of science in that space in my clinic showed me that something had happened to the environment where that science was no longer working. The food was no longer working as our medicine as it had for, you know, 1000 of years before as as said by Hippocrates and 4000 years of Chinese medicine and the rest. And so that led me into that deeper inquiry of what have we broken in nature that's led to this this separation of health?
And the answer ultimately was a separation from nature. Yeah. You are the ultimate learner having started as a medical doctor and then moving into other things sort of building still as you go. So I wanna sort of start with where we finish at Hoffman. We finish in the unburdening of patterns, the freedom that comes with being connected to your authentic self, and the connectivity to all living beings. People feel a part of a larger community of what it means to be human.
They experience the freedom that comes with unburdening all their conditioning from the past. And that's kind of, in a way, if you think about it, where you come in because we can't only be permanent fix it projects where now let me think about myself again and in this way. Part of what you say, as I experience it on a broad level, is look outside of you. Look at the world around you. Look at the body you have related to the water and the soil we have.
There's so much larger connection. And so as we begin to step outside of our own stuff, where should we begin looking to? Is it really understanding our Earth and the roundup that has caused such problems. Share a little bit on the uninitiated. Where do we start? Yeah. I think for me, you know, starting at that point of cancer is an interesting spot because self link a cancer cell is
the loneliest cell in the body. Any cell that becomes isolated from its surrounding nature, so from the cells that share its identity, you know, the other colon cells that it's connected to, when that colon cell becomes isolated from that as well as the deeper immune system that sits right below the colon cell. When it loses that orientation, it becomes a cancer cell. And so what we continue to do through much of our work in organizations and processes, Hoffman being a good example of it, I
suppose. But if you look back at, you know, 9000 years of of yoga traditions or Ayurveda or chi gong or Tai Chi coming out of the east, These practices were really about that unburdening of self. And a lot of it was about understanding how the body as a vessel is a storage vessel for trauma. If you're not actively emptying the storage container, you're gonna accumulate this damage, and you're ultimately gonna create isolation.
And so at the cellular level, that can become cancer, but at the mental health level, it becomes anxiety, depression, you know, mood disorders of all sorts, sleep disorders, sexual dysfunction. Everything that's plaguing us today is really the result of a failure to unpack the trauma. So there's a huge service. And and everybody's been through Hoffman as experienced that relevatory kind of experience of I am a being, and I'm not harnessed to my identity as a trauma source or a
trauma vessel. I have an identity that preceded the trauma, and it's unaffected by the trauma. And I I'm really compelled by that because what we've uncovered in my laboratory over the last 10 years is that when we put human cells that are in that cancer prone state of isolation back in the frequency and communication network of the microbiome, literally put it back into the soil communication networks, the cell immediately expresses the connective proteins that
connect it back to the organism. And so to witness human cells reconnecting and therefore eliminating disease is a really compelling argument for what nature is capable of doing. And so what we are seeing is that the more diversity, the more biodiversity in soil systems, the more effective and fluent the communication network is between cells. It's somewhat stunning that the human body was not designed to have a human communication network at that cellular level, at this biochemistry level.
In fact, it was a microbiome communication network all along. In other words, human cells and their complexity emerged from the intelligence of an ecosystem. And so we are the result of 4000000000 years of innovation and adaptation cranking through iterations and iterations of life at each point, life getting more diverse and therefore more intelligent, therefore more beautiful. And so this
is the journey we've been on. And to see that happen under a microscope gives us a real sense of this is the pathway for the human society to start to head in. Because the isolated human that accumulates the trauma and finally shakes off all that trauma, but is not in an ecosystem in which connection can inherently happen, it's gonna become isolated again, or it's not gonna solve for that root problem.
And so what we tend to see in these communities and and, you look no further than every cult that has emerged, is that the moment of spiritual revelation without cultural connectivity leads to even further disease. So part of what you're saying is that wonderful work, Hoffman grads, that you're unburdening and doing the work. Congratulations, and don't stop there. Keep going. Don't remain isolated. Otherwise, you'll fall back into the cancer of isolation
that you just referenced. It's happening on a cellular level, but it's also happening on a human level. Yeah. And and I think, you know, Hoffman for sure, but I think for each step that we take in our own spiritual journey towards completion, we have to be in a resonance field if we're gonna maintain that. That then encourages us to continue to grow. Because the danger becomes you have that 1 week immersion experience at the Hoffman. You come out and you're
like, oh my gosh. I'm I'm enlightened person compared to where I was a week ago. And you look around and you see behaviors and tendencies and patterns that you've been stuck in as well. And there's 2 possibilities that are dangerous. 1 is you feel yourself somehow superior to those systems around you, those people around you, and so you develop a bit of a superiority or a complex.
Or you try to fit back into community with your new enlightened state and get bound back down to the patterns that are trying to trick you back in your patterns. So you see the decrement of your own journey, and you start to return to those patterns. How do you continue the work, I guess, is the question. Or what are you going for? And that continued journey, you know, for me happened through relationship. And
I think it almost always has to. Our higher self is always designing the next relationship whether it be a business relationship or romantic relationship or a child comes into your life. These things are designed to challenge you to basically unveil all of the codependencies that you've created at these at these lower levels of of identity. And what I mean by lower levels of identity is outsourcing identity. And so you take on a role as I am I'm a first born son of 4 kids. So that was one of my
early identities as well. I'm the oldest kid, and I'm I'm the first son, and these lingos are being used. And and I was also the the youngest kid in my entire little hippie church that I was born into, so I had all this social, you know, observation of, well, you know, this must be the next generation coming out of the rise of Aquarius, and this kid must, you know, show us the future. And so there's just all this weird social pressure that gets put on you very early at age. And these
identities start getting handed to you. And pretty soon you're a student, and then you're, you know, a good student or a bad student. You're on a soccer team. I would happen to be terrible at sports in group settings, and then finally found wrestling and did better in an individual sports. So then I was a wrestler and got my Letterman jacket.
All these little subtle things start stacking on top of you, point where you have absolutely no idea who you are before the world tried to start to define you or or hand you an identity. And these things can get more and more entrenched the more altruistic or the more celebrated those identities are in the community.
You do something really horrific due to this trauma that you're carrying, and you hurt somebody near you, or you end up in prison, or those are actually, you know, identities that can be really entrenched and dangerous. But they're also something that you can look at and be like, okay. I don't want that to be my identity. For me, the dangerous identity was I was a great dad and faithful husband and a doctor. So these things sound really good, and they're really celebrated by the world around us.
And so I was being told that I was winning the game. And yet by the time I'm 40, I have absolutely no clue who I am, and I don't have any idea why I feel like, absolutely hollow log walking around having emptied myself in service to everybody I knew because my wife, my kids, my job, I thought that that was what I was supposed to be doing, empty myself for these things that everybody's celebrating.
And so in some ways, the more altruistic or more heralded your right external identities are, the more difficult it is to break free. And so emptying your trauma body or the just trying to get to know your pain body is only the beginning of of identity. So you gotta get past the freedom of I am not my trauma to actually finding self. That's very disruptive because now you need to have enough distance in every relationship of your
life. For me, I had to leave the university and start a clinic and suffer financially for years so that I would be out of the the identity of successful doctor. I had to be a failed doctor and a failed clinic and I, you know, I had to really stack up the challenges before that became my preferred identity to ask who is this being and what is it trying to express. And that's ultimately what I found myself in for the last 15 years is, if I'm not expressing the new culture of Zach,
then I haven't found me yet. If I don't see something a new emerging around me that absolutely expresses a different beauty than I had ever been trained into, then I'm I haven't found myself. Because every being must be participating in a new culture. And that new culture has not been realized by any of us yet because it would require the loss of the ego. And that ego is our big protection shield against the split mind.
And as we drive down on what caused the split mind, just as we do under a microscope of what caused the isolation of the human cell, we find one common cause, and that's an abandonment disorder. We deeply, deeply believe as humans, subconsciously, that we got kicked out of nature. And we deeply believe that for that, we have a chronic scarcity problem. We have scarcity of resources. We have scarcity of food. We have scarcity ultimately of love and acceptance in this universe
from God itself. And so we built a bunch of religions that tell us that we are in fact kicked out, and we actually are too damaged to even approach God. And so we need to repair this vessel so that it can touch God, you know, so that it can be approached into this heaven. So we have we have these religious constructs that I was certainly raised in that come along, these these psychosocial
belief systems of abandonment. And therefore, with the abandonment, accumulating trauma that you guys are working to clear. So until we solve those deep, deep things of I am abandoned for nature, we don't get there. And so what I see under the microscope is the only way to get a cancer cell to revert to a healthy component of of a complex community of 70 trillion cells is nature. Nature, in its abundance, has to create communication network that allows that to happen.
In the same way, the only way I'm gonna get through an egoic expression of a split mind and believe myself abandoned from nature is to go back out into that nature. And the reason is is is largely we cannot see ourselves unless in relationship. And if we go into relationship with another human, we're actually not looking at a very effective mirror. And we can't see them. They can't see us.
Even if that person is unburied, all of its trauma and really cleared and is in their highest vibrational state, at best, we are seeing ourselves in that mirror. We're not seeing the other person because we still have that egoic split in both minds. And so we're in this interesting journey now of wondering, are we going to before the extinction occurs for our species, are we going to be able to have that split second moment where 2 humans can see each other?
And to do that, they're gonna have to lose both will have to lose the ego. And to do that, we're gonna have to lose the root wound, which is abandonment from nature. And so we've got to get back out in nature and do the opposite of what we typically do in nature, which is to gawk over the beauty. And I did this for years and I lectured on it. Go out in nature and see beauty and it will help you resonate in the frequency
of love. And I've seen much healing through that journey, but it doesn't get rid of the ego until you allow nature to see you. That's really the burden of challenge now. This is really compelling, and I'm noticing that I'm a little like, I can feel the energy here. So part of what we do at Hoffman is we do just that. Go out in nature. See the beauty. And it sounds like you too have, in the past, espoused that as an important step, but you're saying that's not enough.
There's another step to take, and, it's one that I've only been a few years into, but it has radically changed me as a being for sure. Radically changed my capacity to communicate. Radically changed my capacity to to understand myself outside of the constructs of human relationships, for example. And to really start to solve for what is a completed being feel like. How would I know if my masculine and feminine are able to actually come together and birth the child that I am?
How will I know that? So that pursuit is very fascinating to me. And the only avenues that I have found is go out in nature and allow myself to be seen. Trust that nature loves me so much that it wants to to witness me, and it's inspired by witnessing me. It sees something in me that raises the vibration of every tree I sit beneath.
And to feel that feedback loop is changing the way I interact with this planet, and I am starting to really reconcile the issue of I actually felt like a foreigner on this planet for the vast majority of my years. It's not something we openly talk about, but the more times I have mentioned that, I don't think I've heard anybody that didn't agree that at least for the majority of their life, they felt the same. And for the majority, as we continue to feel that way.
And it happened to me just a couple years ago. I was in the bush of Africa and 2 large white male lions. These white lions are about 30% larger than your typical yellow lions. They are just massive creatures, and they came for me at night. And I was alone, barefoot in the bush. And they really called me out there with their roars and inspired this curiosity and connection with me before I'd ever seen them. I had never seen a wild lion before.
And so it was in that moment of suddenly being seen by these creatures, and they had a potency of connection that I couldn't keep my ego shield up at all. They just shattered that right through, and they were staring into me. And they started communicating in some deep level. And that moment so reoriented my entire life, entire sense of purpose, my my sense of history, who I am. They could see things that no human has
ever seen. They they seen things in me that I have never seen in myself, had no idea of because they were showing me something that was not temporal. The human mind is so locked in its temporal, you know, commitment to timelines and and temporal realities that we can't see the past. We can't see the future when we're healthy. But in disease, I've seen people cross all of those timelines, Alzheimer's,
other forms of dementia. In almost everybody in the last few days of life, the biologic veil is thinning as biology shuts down, and they can start to be their etheric reality instead of their biologic reality. And they start talking to ancestors. They talk to future generations. They literally start blending into forward and backwards timelines because they're letting go of their commitment to the belief that what they see is real.
And so I think all of us will ultimately get to that point of seeing beyond that veil of a very temporal and limited belief of what's real. But we can do it when we allow nature to see us deeply, and it will will tear you apart and it will challenge you. It will end relationships. It will start relationships. It will, you know,
destroy jobs. It will birth jobs. Like, you will become somebody different because to date, you've only allowed yourself to be witnessed by other shielded humans, which is to say you've never been seen. I had never been seen. And to this day, I know that nature sees me on a daily basis now and I get to feel the feedback loop. Nature's obviously probably been witnessing me all along. But because I wasn't bringing my energetic awareness to it, there was only half a relationship there.
And so this is meeting the lover who's, like, looking at you in the hall for 3 years of junior high, but you never see them and so that you don't have no idea they love you. And so you're so shy. You're so socially shy in nature, as am I, that you can't be seen out there. And so it's about shaking off that shyness and and realize, I'm so in awe of this oak tree. I'm so in awe of that sunset. Why wouldn't that thing be in awe of me?
I am the amalgamation of all of the intelligence of earth speaking through a single neurologic system. We now know that. There is no such thing as human thought or human consciousness. There's only an ecosystem that speaks through you. And without the biodiversity in the human colon, we don't have human intelligence. Just to say that human intelligence is actually natural nature intelligence speaking through a single voice or creating vision
and creativity within a human mind. But it's the ecosystem speaking through you that makes that possible as you take antibiotics in your food in the form of herb herbicides, pesticides, or you take it in the form of your doctor prescribing it, or you're drinking alcohol that kills the microbiome, as you diminish the microbiome, you know, efficacy within your gut, the biodiversity there, you start to lose the creative juice.
You lose that creative capacity for life. And so it's this realization that we are only half alive for as long as we believe ourselves to be human and therefore somehow superior or separate or inferior to the rest of nature. And so the that's the journey, I think, ultimately. And it's it's one that's mysterious because nobody's asked you to feel what it feels like to the oak to feel you.
But you can feel it if you really to put a little bit of focus and discipline, lay underneath the tree, stare up at the sky through the branches of that tree, through the leaves, and let the mercurial fluttering of those leaves reset your nervous system. It sets you into a trance pretty quickly if you really resolve your mind to pay attention to the neural network of the tree. And then ask yourself, I'm gonna allow myself to feel the tree's reaction to me. 1st,
you can just feel the tree. But then, what is the tree's reaction to seeing me? I've never thought of that question before, Zach. And so that that I think is the opportunity. And and what we'll find is we we start to design a different culture. We will self express differently when we are seen. And certainly, the way in which I'm expressing myself today in human relationships or to my planetary relationships is radically different than it was 4 years ago.
And so I'm disassembling what was an enormous amount of codependence on other split minds. I needed other people to believe that they hadn't saw something in me that they couldn't get from nature or source, and therefore, I would feel special. And if I didn't feel special to somebody else, then I I didn't have an identity. I didn't feel any value in being me.
So your work has externally looked somewhat similar, but the way in which you're going about it is I mean, you shared something a little while ago is that you're tired of being seen by other people. Like, let's stop seeing each other for the fellow split mind that we are and instead allow ourselves to be seen by nature. And so what happens
when we keep that going? Because I think part of what I hear you beginning to talk about is that if we allow ourselves to be seen by nature, then there is some connection between what the natural world offers us in our gut? Help me make that connection. Yeah. So I think that what's emerging for me is that as we start to realize that we are so coherent as a being that an oak tree can feel us, then there must be nothing lacking or missing from us.
And so when nature sees you, you're going to start to feel more whole than you've ever felt before. Up until that moment, you have deeply, subconsciously, unconsciously believed that you were walking around with a set of good stuff and maybe a set of bad stuff, but definitely a whole empty gap of things that you you can't do yourself, traits that you don't possess.
And so for this, we have been looking at each other to find traits that we don't believe we can get from source, that we can't get from being part of nature. And we go and cleave onto or grab onto those traits and other people. A huge body of work called The Course in Miracles really details us out in in incredible detail back in the 19 sixties seventies when that unfolded.
Basically, it defines us a special relationship. It's that we look around, find that trade that we don't think we can get from source, cleave onto that, and then we will empty it out of that person until it is gone. And then we will leave that relationship. And I think we do that in our jobs. I think that, you know, a company can do this to an individual. Company thinks, oh, well, we don't have this thing, so there's a person that has that.
And instead of seeing the person and understanding it to be part of the greater organism of nature and and nurture, it will drain that trade out of them by thinking it can't get it anywhere else. And so they have a way of draining employees of their greatest skill until they feel unseen and unappreciated, and then they depart. The same thing happens in in human relationships
for romantic kind of things going on. And so we will see in a lover some trait that we just are so amazed by, then we will cleave on to that, not seeing the whole person for its wholeness and because we don't understand ourselves as whole. So in our belief that we are lacking, we will go and try ourselves as whole. So in our belief that we are lacking, we will go and try to fill our lacking gaps with that opposite. And you hear this
a lot. Like, oh, the best couples always have opposite personalities or things, and your weakness are somebody else's strength. So it seems like an obvious thing. Like, well, I'm on this half person and you're a half person. If we come together, we're gonna be a whole. So that's the whole premise of a special relationship. It's 2 halves created because of an egoic split. Therefore believing you you're not a whole person. You you're now reaching outside of yourself to complete these things.
And for that, you have to agree on a certain set experience. One is there will always be 2 dueling egos with different goals or different priorities. Because, you know, one's desperate need to complete itself is gonna look different than the other's desperate need to complete itself, and so they're seeing different paths to try to do that. So you have 2 split egos that are now agreeing that they're gonna be on different courses regardless of what's done. Second one is you have to agree on
friction and pain. The third one is you have to agree on death. Because if you can't get it from source, then you're gonna have to drain that person either to death or you're going to have to die before them. And so it's literally, you have to agree that something is gonna die in this relationship because in our effort to solve for our own belief paucity, we're gonna have to drain the other person.
And so it's not really until we create relationships, new that we're gonna have the opportunity to start to see one another and therefore create a human society that reflects the coherence that we see in nature. There's not a single oak tree in the forest that ever wakes up in the morning to the sunrise thinking, you know, I wasn't that good of an oak yesterday. I feel like I really didn't do so well. And, you know, and then there's that oak tree up the way there that's way
bigger than I am. So what the heck am I doing over here? And, man, that that aspen tree over there is so much more beautiful when it shimmers in the gold leaves, and I'm just an oak over here. Never. There's no doubt in nature. So where the hell did doubt come into the human experience? There's a number of indigenous peoples that I work with now that have told me that the only difference between a dream and your waking state is that there are no doubts in your dreams. I'm intrigued by that.
There's definitely insecurities in my dreams, but no doubt. And so I'm curious about that. Are we actually living in an artificial reality that we come to believe in and reinforce in one another because we're all sharing this belief of a split reality because we have split egos? And will we suddenly see something completely vastly different in ourselves when we lose that ego for a moment? And my experience is that it's actually not safe at all to take down the ego
among humans. You will immediately get hurt. And that is beautiful. And that's where I'm trying to really push myself out of my comfort zone on a daily basis of, like, what does it feel like to be hurt? I actually didn't really know before because I was so quick to put up that shield that only had the first inklings of pain, and then I would put up the shield. It turns out that if I let that shield down and let somebody full on attack me,
I can actually metabolize that pretty quickly. I can see it for something that's coming from outside of myself and it's not actually me. And understanding this external assault as an external phenomenon and not something coming from within, I can metabolize through that feeling very quickly. And I get to experience the whole feeling because it turns out that the feeling of of an emotional tack can send you on a a full spectrum of unconditional love ultimately.
Well, you find out that I understand where that's coming from in that person because I have seen that come out of me in the past. I can see it come out of me this morning. I know where that emotion comes from. It comes from this deep rooted belief that I'm separate from my mother or my parents or my family or my job or my boss. Whatever you're projecting that separation on, if you realize it's simply this realize, this deep belief that you're separate from nature,
you can solve for that. And and the more we solve for this, and the more we're willing to feel the pain inflicted by all light beings that are now walking around split. And if we, for a moment, somebody else feels you actually feeling them, just like the oak tree just felt you, feel them feeling you, you start to create these feedback loops. And it turns out we
are nature. And we are a forest. And we can metabolize through every human trauma, every human experience if we're willing to feel it all. And that for me is this huge introduction to the concept of unconditional love. Because up until this point, love, like everything else, was a scarcity. And as a scarce commodity, you had to to protect it and make sure that you were only giving it to those that deserved it. And only putting it in places where you would get fed back. Love.
That is a definition of a frequency of an emotion. And emotion, in my new experience, is a very distilled and refined purified food extract. It's not actually food. It's not actually nourishment. It's not actually a feeling. It's an emotion. So an emotion is a thin band of a complex waveform that we would call a feeling. And so now we've come to reduce feelings down to these thin bands of belief. There's joy. There's love. There's pain, there's rejection, there's disappointment.
And these little thin bands we're now looking for in nature. Is this a good day or is this a bad day? Am I sad or am I happy? And so you're looking for little bands of experience that last about 7 seconds in the neurochemical environment to define your day because you have been trained out of feeling
the entire day. And what I'm finding is that if I'm willing to be wounded fully without my ego, I can just say, I wonder if this person can absolutely kill me with their current trigger that they're firing off. I wonder if I could die right now if I let this feel all the way through me. And so far, I haven't been able to find anything that actually not only doesn't kill me, it does it doesn't even slow me down.
If I acknowledge this is a vibration of feeling, this is a vibration of feeling, and I can have all kinds of emotional bands that that show up in that. But if I I start to get really good at acknowledging and letting go of the those emotional bands being oh, yep. There's my anger. Yep. There's my fear. Yep. There's my shame.
My guilt. And you you quickly identify those in instead of saying that's some sort of state of being now, understand that the state of being is a feeling that takes you through the whole bandwidth. What I believe is gonna emerge is a state of unconditional love where you find out that life is only the frequency of birth and birthing that happens for a single bacteria or a mitochondria inside one of your cells or a human cell or your entire being inside of your mother's womb.
It's all coming out of a single vibration that is this somehow growth in life cycle. There's death and there's rebirth. There's death and rebirth. And every rebirth has an iterative extension of possibility where the biodiversity and the beauty and the intelligence gains.
And so even in the last few weeks, I've created for myself, not, you know, in my conscious mind, but somewhere in my higher self has created opportunities for me to get hurt worse than I've ever been hurt in just standard little communications that are happening in my in my relationships around the planet. Because I didn't have my ego down at that moment, or I had my ego down
at that moment. And because of that vulnerability, I felt things that I've never felt before, and I made myself available to the entire experience. Because somewhere in these last few months of life, I've become really agnostic as to whether I'm still holding on to a human body. I'm really enjoying the curiosity of feeling a day more than I've ever felt a day. But it's okay with me if I'm utterly destroyed by the experience of feeling now because I think I've experienced everything a human can
have. My kids grew up. I, you know, went and started companies. I I found out that if I put all of my energy into anything that I can see, I can manifest that thing eventually. And maybe it's a, you know, really successful thing or maybe it's an unsuccessful thing, but I can manifest that thing. And so it's an interesting journey ultimately to this experience. If I if I've done everything impossible, then what's the harm in letting down that shield? And so I'm ready for that thing to die.
And if my entire organisms can't handle life without an ego, then I'll die too. But I'd rather die with that shield down to find out what it feels like to feel completely even for a moment than I have walked around this half a century numbed out because of the shielding that I've had. So When you reference the earth and being seen by the oak tree, part of what I hear you saying, you
use the word metabolize a bunch. There's something about the way in which you describe the way the earth operates as almost what we want for ourselves as human. The Earth doesn't have an ego. The Earth metabolizes things. The Earth can handle wounds and regenerate. Is part of what you're talking about, Zac, becoming more earth like? It's letting nature be you. You know, letting yourself back into nature, letting nature back into you.
And then the Course of Miracles, it calls this a simple thing called holy relationship. When you find out that you were actually complete as an energy field and therefore completed a body, you manifested a physical body in your mother's womb without a template. There was no map for you. It turns out that a human cell and its genetics and all the proteins in there has no map as to where the toe goes and how many cells are there and where the toenail goes on that and the and that kidney over
there. There is no map in the biology. The map seems to be somewhere in the electromagnetic field of the vacuum space that's potential that's in the mother's womb. And so actually what's happening is you are an expression of an energy field that actually is vibrating at a frequency that cannot be perturbed by any human experience downstream.
This thing is so vibrant that in the midst of the womb of a mother who carries 40 generations of trauma and the genetics you're receiving from mother and father have at least 40 generations of trauma at the epigenetic and ultimately at the germline mutations within the genome, there should be no way that you you self organize a body with any sense of life or order.
You're coming out of chaos because you're born into generations of split minds and split egos that have separated themselves from nature, and yet you align perfectly in the wound. You've got 10 fingers, and you got 10 titties. Maybe you got lucky and got 11 somewhere. But the fact is your body perfectly formed because it wasn't coming out of the human experience. It was actually formed from the energetic experience that we call a soul. And I have seen those souls
detach. And my last subspecialty was in hospice and palliative care. I was associate medical director for a hospice for 4 years, admitting 80 patients a week to die. So you multiply that out, and you're you're seeing thousands and thousands of people dying. And I have never seen a death that looked like an endpoint.
As you get to witness in those last seconds of birth happen, you see an energy field emerge that is so potent that the last semblances of biology that are holding on suddenly say something that you cannot imagine how beautiful it is. And that one sentence coming out of the person, their last few breaths can heal generational trauma, can heal wounded and estranged relationships in a single word, not because the word, but because of the
vibration behind it. When that person looks without the veil of the ego at their child, and says, I have always loved you. They have not said I love you their whole life because there was trauma and there was alcoholism and there was abuse and there was all these things. And then suddenly the child feels the veil come down, sees the soul see it, speaks right to it. I love you. I have always loved you. And immediately that being goes on a totally different trajectory.
And so it takes a split second of the recognition, soul to soul, for this thing to happen. And I am convinced that there is a moment coming in human history. There's a moment in our future history in which somebody lets that ego down for long enough to be seen. The Course in Miracles says when that happens, that person will complete itself instantly, obviously. Because as the ego comes down, you can suddenly see yourself.
And when you see yourself holding, you will immediately become visible to those around you that have also taken that opportunity to pull that ego down far enough. And in that second that twos 2 beings actually see each other, there will be such a high acknowledgment or experience of beauty that the vibration of love that will be generated from that witnessing of beauty will change the entire species and actually even predict a change in the cosmos.
There'll be such an intense vibration on the planet. If that's even slightly possible, I'm all in. I wanna do that. And so everything I'm doing now with my companies and our journey of intrinsic health and all these things that we're putting together now, these these human experiences that we're doing together are all with that mission of, I don't know if it will be me, but can I create a vessel and a community in which people are starting to practice taking down that ego so that somebody
somebody just needs to pierce that veil? And just like the 4 minute mile, in the moment somebody ran faster, just 2 seconds, you know, or I think it was 0.2 seconds below that, within 6 weeks, people all over the world were starting to break the 4 minute mile. So something that happens, there's a threshold effect of our reality where the things that we think are impossible
can suddenly become possible. And so just one person needs to pierce the veil long enough to be seen by another such that it can happen for all of us, and we can all start to pop into unconditional love from one another. And we will stop trying to cling to each other in these ownership models of relationship. My company employs people, and those are literally like ownership contracts. And they have all these benefits, and they own part of the stock of the company.
And the thing is all this ownership. So there's all these expectations and the things, and it's a mess. Like, it just it can't actually operate in beauty. It can't be actually an element of nature because of all of its interlocked things. Buckminster Fuller saw a future in which there were no employees. Everybody will know their own sovereignty, and so every relationship will add value to every other relationship.
And so we have to start to lose these constructs within our companies, but perhaps most of all in our marriages, which was, of course, a pretty recent formation in human history that we had these ownership contracts, which were basically men being able to own women so that we could pass wealth through multiple generations. So we created these ownership contracts.
So if there's anything that needs to dissolve for us to really emerge as a as a human species, we probably have to dissolve the ownership contracts over one another. But to do that, we're gonna have to be confident enough that we're whole, that we're willing to go into life unowned. Because as much as we might wanna own another, we'd much more wanna be owned. Because we are so afraid that we're unlovable. And we're so afraid that we are incomplete. And we're so afraid that there's scarcity of
partnerships in the world. So we race around trying to partner because it's the only way to create a whole because we are all halves. Take a moment to acknowledge there's no way we're halves because we created a whole being inside the womb of our mother And so we began whole. And somewhere in the journey we were trained that we were half. And then for that we have created every relationship to our own families, to our own partners, to our own companies.
We have created special relationships, and for this, we are crippled in our capacity to complete the human journey. Zach, when you talk about dropping the veil down, dropping that egoic self, understanding that we are whole, we are not the split mind, and we are not split individuals that that is all available to us. If that happens, even between 2 people, the energy created there will spread. And so if more of us do that, what's the
outcome? What begins to emerge as a result of this journey of letting go of this idea that we're not whole? I'd love the metaphor of the 10 toes and the embryo forming without a map that there's some deeper There's a wholeness there. There's a wholeness there. So if we claim our wholeness, what happens next? It's gonna get more beautiful than you can possibly imagine. More beautiful than you can possibly imagine. It will happen instantaneously.
Zach, these are big ideas, but these are important ideas. Is there anything else in terms of where people can get more information or contribute or follow some of your work, where would they go? Journey of Intrinsic Health is the community we're building globally. So journey of intrinsic health dot com. You can also access that through my website, zachbushmd.com, to take a deeper look at the way in which human cells reorient their original math
in the way of nature. You can go to our website intelligence of nature.com, and you'll take a look at just how fast the body repairs when it has access to the microbiome and its communication system. So the real meat of this is that it takes community for us to move forward. And so everything we're designing are really about learning experiences, engaged learning experiences. And so I'm not so interested in educating anybody, which is kind of our programming. But
I want this to become your experience. I want you to experience nature in these ways that we've discovered under the microscope and immerse yourself in that nature and then feel into what it feels like to be alive at that moment. And I think it will be a beautiful journey. Doctor Zach Busch, thank you so much for your time. I'm grateful. Honored to be with all of you. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation.
And I'm Razi Ingrassi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves, in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hopmaninstitute.org.