You know, 1 of the biggest things I remember from Hoffman and whether it was the process or q 2 or even the couples retreat is the laughter. Like, just cracking each other up, and it was just so simple and so funny, and we were all, like children together, and I just loved that feeling of that deep connection and laughter or enjoy. And you know, it's just no pretense Welcome everybody. My name is Drew Horn, and this podcast is called Lu everyday radius.
It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute, and it's stories and anecdotes, and people we interview about their life post process and how it lives in the world radiating love. Everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. The elaine Duncan is with me. Welcome Elaine. Pedro. It is great to see you great to have you here on the podcast. How are you feeling? I'm feeling good. You know, it's a beautiful day here in Colorado.
We they're finally into spring. Fellow, Colorado that you are, and we are together. You know, you and I were recently at an event they're And at that event, you had been giving me incredible resources. People connecting me to people who own retreat sites, connecting me to guests who'd be great on the podcast, connecting me to possible students who wanted to talk about coming to the process. I mean, so many wonderful connections, and most recently a couple of connections for the podcast.
And then as we're talking I looked at you and I'm like, wait a minute. I need to interview you Elaine Duncan, and you were like, Okay. If you think it'd be helpful. And so here we are. I actually I remember saying, like, really? Aren't there more important people out there that It was something like that because I remember you being, like... You sure. But here we are about to have this conversation. So tell me a little bit about who you
are. Tell us your story, Elaine. Well, I grew up in Baltimore, Maryland, about 8 months after I was born, my younger brother was adopted, and my mother was a social worker, and adoption was a really important thing to her, and something she was incredibly interested in, especially international adoption. After the first brother, she adopted a baby from Korea, and then that led to a 2 year old from Korea, and over the years, they had adopted 16 children, and I was her only biological child.
Wait, wait. Sick. Did you say 16? Yeah. 1 6. But it's kinda funny, Drew because, you know, my parents got divorced when I was 20, and my mother got remarried, and we didn't see her for a little while because she went to Africa. And she married her second husband and together, they adopted, I honestly don't even know how many children from Liberia But when my husband and his family met my mother, my sweet little mother law's said, to my
mother. I just think it's so fascinating. How many children do you have? And my mom said 37 without skipping a beat. And I I remember thinking like, that's interesting. I'm not sure where that number came from, and I'm sure she wasn't necessarily, you know, not being honest, but in her mind, she had adopted 37 children. So the oldest and the only biological. Child of your parents grows up, what happens
in your childhood. What what's happening in those formative years that becomes g for the mill and the eventual hoffman in Enroll. Well, I was I was the first born, but I wasn't the old. I was oldest for about 4 years. And then they started adopting, you know, children with special needs and older children. So I kinda went from the oldest and the only girl to the oldest and a sister kinda to the middle to kind of be bumped around in the middle until I was 18.
We also had foster children occasionally and foreign exchange students. So there were it was a very, very active house and my mother, you know, again, with her passion to go overseas. She was rarely home, and my father was always working. So we kinda raised each other. But I did have the opportunity at a very young age starting around 7 or 8 to travel internationally with my mother. I'm working
orphanages and things like that. So in some ways it was incredibly hectic and very stressful and complete chaos, but I also did have those special moments, with my mother seeing the world, and I knew how lucky at was because she reminded me all the time. You know, how there were, you know, starving children all over the world and that sort of thing. So you know, there was a lot of, like. People thought it was just this unbelievable family. This was back in, like, the
late seventies drew. When adoption was just becoming a thing. And, you know, my mother was really kind of a trail place with that, you know, she was on Don, just Just was back when Oprah was an anchor in Baltimore. Now Oprah did a story on us before she was Oprah. Do we have references? Can we put link in the show notes that people could watch those episodes? I haven't
been able to... Find them. In fact, I started writing a book about 5 years ago and I and I really kinda went in and I hired someone to try to find me these links find They couldn't find it. Yeah. Okay. So you you have this experience of the both and some gratitude and appreciation for the gift that is your childhood and some awareness of the chaos in your childhood, with all those kids running around 16.
What happens as you merge into adolescence and into young adulthood, Well, I think, you know, we always had so many people at our house, and we had a lot of friends over all the time, and it was actually, our first house was... In a little suburban neighborhood, and it had 4 bedrooms as the kids came on and again, it was over a span of years, and some were sibling sets also, which as I grew older was a little complicated because there were, like, families within the family, But my grandmother
really kinda raised me. She took me home from the hospital because my mother had a an emergency surgery. So I kind of imprinted with my grandmother. And my grandmother did not agree with, you know, the first... 2 or 3 kids, it was different and fun, and it was exciting. But as it went on, she was very upset with her daughter, my mother. And then my mother converted us to being Latter Saint when I was 8 and my grandmother thought that was a cult. You know, missionaries came to our house 1 day.
And I think my mother was always a seeker, and I kinda have that too. But I think more than anything the church was so supportive of our family. So she could go do whatever she wanted, and they would bring us food, and they would bring us clothes. And I hated it because it made me feel like such a charity case because, you know, I had this home life
And then I had my grandmother's house. And my grandmother was a member of the country club and shopped at Hut and Cohn, and you know, made me dinner and did my laundry, and, you know, I was there all the time. So I kinda had, you know, 1 foot in this, world where I was treated, like an only child. I mean I was my grandmother's favorite. All the cousins even still say that. But then this other family where I was just kinda like lost in the mix. And, you know, I was always told, like,
you're very special. We love you, but we love all of our children the same. Just So I was never really treated differently, and I was the only called caucasian of my family. So the irony of I was the 1 that actually didn't fit in. So what happens next as everyone continues to grow up in that family? I mean you can imagine that many kids, it was pretty heck... And I and I started to tell you about the 4 bedroom house. My father just kept building additions. So there were 4 small bedrooms in the
basement. There was an addition off the stick side. They built an addition on the garage, and I remember hearing in my neighborhood. And this is like Be Maryland especially back then, there was no diversity, and it was just a very kind of almost, like, lower mid level blue collar, you know, kind of area, and our neighbors...
Everybody thought that it was, like a foster home, and it kinda was but we kinda got, like, moved out of a the community, and my parents had done some research about Columbia, which was the first planned community in the in the country. Columbia, Maryland where, you know, it's very diverse. Multi generational couples could live together. All the schools were 1 floors who accommodate handicapped children, and we thrived there just because we weren't that diff... We were still different, but there
wasn't the racism. There wasn't the same kind of judgment. And I can remember though when we move there, you know, in high school, I played a sport every season. And mostly because I wanted community, and I also started working when I was 14. So I've always kind of had these... All these different communities with, like, sports. And I was really active in drama. And I started working young and a couple
of my other friends did. In fact, I'm still super good friends with a lot of the girls I went to high school with, But it was always about fitting in. I mean, I can remember in ninth grade, like do shop lifting because I I had to have guest jeans. In Be, we were wearing Jordan jeans. In Colombia, they were wearing guest jeans. And Sweaters and the limited, and I didn't have anything like that, and I wanted to fit in so badly. So I've always kind of had these dual lives of just playing a role.
And a lot of what I learned at Hoffman actually is to really kind of let go of those masks, and I didn't even know how. So so let's go there. What led you to go to Hoffman in the first place? Well, you know, honestly, it was a... It was a... A good friend of mine, my friend Ed. We were really good friends and he said, and I and I didn't really
understand what it was. I mean, I had been in therapy and good you know, things like that, and I wasn't completely void of therapeutic methods or, you know, and I got sober when I was 20, so I had you know, a framework of Aa and other 12 step programs and but Ed thought that I should meet Ras and Liza, And Liza, and I had a few really beautiful conversations, and she said, you know, I really think you should do the process and we have an opening, like, in 2 weeks. I think you should come.
And I did. Now what I didn't realize though was, you know, I was getting ready to get married. To my second husband, and we've been together for a little over 10 years. Now, but the blended family stuff was triggering me all over the place. There was a lot of similarities with mother and the grandmother and his daughter and and I really didn't understand what was happening. So it was such a gift that fell out of the sky, and I actually you know, you and I've talked about being
a connector. And I think 1 of the greatest things that has come out of that in my life is not necessarily people that I've helped have helped me, but I really believe that if you just keep putting stuff out there, all the little beautiful surprises have all been because I knew someone who referred me to something or said says you should talk to a elaine or that sort of thing, and it was the same thing with Hoffman. It was a it was a friend that said, I think, I don't
know. I just have a feeling that you should meet this couple. And I had done landmark, you know, back when I was 20, my mother was actually friends with Werner Air hard, she knew I had challenges, but and she always wanted me to try new things, and that right and so so the hope concept of it wasn't scary or anything, and I was really open to it. I thought, I'm gonna meet so many interesting people. This can be so cool. It was truly 1 of the best experiences
of my life. So take us into your process. Where's a moment in time where... A shit hit the fan or you remember even now. Well, I I actually kinda showed up with this... Feeling that I was kind of invited, and I was curious. And so I didn't really dive all in I think the way some of the other participants may have... And I had 2 weeks
to plan. I mean, I remember doing the the pre work, And David and I were driving somewhere, and I was doing it in the car, and I just was crying, and I and I think, I remember saying to him, This isn't like a weird question, but it's the way they ask the question. I was especially affected by the questions about my parents. And so that was really all I had going into it. Like, this is gonna be interesting.
And then Ras was my teacher, You know, So I I do remember the first day, you know, we sat down, and I honestly did not know what I was getting into. I really didn't... Putting my phone away for 7 days was terrifying because I'm, you know, always on my phone because I am a connector, and he said, how are you feeling today? And I was like, I'm good. And he said good not a feeling Here's a list of whatever, a hundred and 50
feelings. How are you feeling... Remember looking at that list being like, you know, in feeling like the hive is breaking out of my chest because I didn't know the right answer. Because no 1 ever has to me how I was feeling in my life. When I was a kid. And if I did get a green and say how, it was feeling, I was cold selfish and hateful. So I wasn't really allowed to say how, I felt,
about many things. So that was the first piece and then I can't remember if it was the second day or the third day, but we did this very deep meditation, and it was hard for me to settle down. Sitting in those chairs and I'm listening and because I've always been kinda high energy. And I've really settled, and I went very deep into it. It was about remembering things, and I had a panic attack, and I've only had that happened 2 times in my life. And they were both pretty traumatic situations.
I was in a very safe place with people that I felt like I had known my whole life, and that happened, and it took me off guard and it was very scary and I felt like I couldn't breathe and I was so grateful because you guys are so wonderful with, like, watching after your small group and, you know, being aware, emr ras came over and very quietly took
me out of the room. So this was back at White sulfur springs we went into the cafeteria, and he just sat with me and talked to me for about an hour and we really kind of unpack. What was going on. And I and I really didn't under... I had not read the body keeps the score. I had not read any of monte stuff. And nothing. So I didn't really understand what my body was telling me. So he he is 1 of the most important teachers I've ever had.
Once I could understand what was going on, with my body, then we could have a very thoughtful conversation and we did. And I think after that conversation, I was all in. Is there a motion when you talk about that moment? Yeah. You can probably hear to my voice. What is it? It's... It really did feel like it was the first time in my life that I had actually been seen. You know, for people who don't know Rats. He my father's age.
My father was a really young father, and he was very kinda c dependent and let my mother just kinda run a mock. And so I never really felt safe at home. And my father didn't make me feel not safe necessarily, but he was just never around, and he certainly didn't have the level of empathy and responsibility that I felt he should have as a parent. So in that moment, Ras saw you in ways.
That you hadn't been seen before. What what's that like and what happened as a result of being vulnerable enough? To let yourself be seen by your teacher. It was incredibly uncomfortable, and it was ugly. I mean, it was... Blowing my nose. It was crying. It was... I've always had a reaction in my body when I feel stressed or really angry or scared or whatever. I get hive and I could feel them coming up my chest.
I I love that he very gently took me to another place, We were in a very quiet safe place. The vibe up there made me different. It settled my nervous system down, and I trusted him. It felt very safe. I mean, the person I feel safe with this my... Is my husband, but even with my first husband, I didn't feel safe, And it wasn't because he was me or I thought like that, I had just never experienced unconditional love like that with no agenda. She needed nothing from me.
And that was uncomfortable because I don't like to owe anybody anything. So once we got kinda passed all of that, it was a really beautiful moment, and I became a lot more open to really exploring what was going on with me. And so you finish the process, you graduate your leave white sulfur springs. What happens? As you emerge to the world in the following weeks months years.
Well, I guess the first thing was... 1 of the things that I think is so magical about hoffman is is how people change, and I witnessed it in others, But when I... My husband picking up from the airport, he said your eyes looked different. And I have green eyes and they were bright green. They did look different. You know, I thought everybody should do this.
You know like, you know what the the the last talk when they're like, you know, just be gentle with it, and, don't tell anybody really, you we want the nap own experience, and I was like, so blown away by the whole thing. And I just thought if everyone could do this, the world would be different. So once I kinda settled down, and I remember my husband saying, like, I'm so happy for you. I'm so glad this made a difference. You grew up in a complete shit show. I'm good.
And I was like, okay. And he did it to 2 years later and thought it was the best thing he's ever done. So, you know, I'm really grateful that I'm in a marriage. Where we both have had this experience because I think that it matters a lot when you can be, use the tools that I learned in Hoffman that I really didn't have before. I mean, I masked my feelings with drugs and alcohol, and I was medicated
and you know, whatever. So just to be able to be completely sober with a community that I felt so safe with and the friendship that I made. I'm still friends with all those people. You know, was really it was very life changing for me, but it did change, like, I understood what getting triggered met. I understood what transfer met. And I can remember I did quad checks like every single day for a really long time after, and I could get to a place even
in a work environment. This was back when everyone went to an office, where if someone triggered me, I could go into the restroom and just kinda sit there and be like, okay, who is unhappy? Is it my spiritual self in my emotional self? You know, I just really gave me the tools to sell soothe that I never really had before. So how did you become or maybe you always were the connector. You transition from telling everybody they should go.
You calm down, but then you develop this ability this unique ability to bring people together. Can you share a little bit about how you develop that skill and why you do it? So I think I developed the skill when I was younger. I mean, my mother was for all of her fault. I mean, we had dinner with presidents. You know, we were in the slums of India. You know, there was always this dichotomy.
And I had to learn how to move in and out of these things, and she also would prayed me out sometimes at these big adoption conferences, to talk about how great my life is that I have all these siblings, and that's sort of thing. So, you know, I started, like, going to conferences us with her and traveling and meeting people and all of that at a very young age. And, you know, she was kind of a master weaver as well, because in order to get done which she wanted
to get done. She had to kind of use people, and I don't mean it necessarily in a mean way. But you know, she had to work a network. So I think I really kind of learned it from her, and then I had my grandmother on the other side who was this very elegant woman. Who, you know, was kind of the... I I can remember sitting on the umbrellas at the pool at the country club, and my grandmother there was in the middle of all of it, and she loved to entertain.
So I think I've always really like to entertain and bring people together and and I also in the pretty empathetic person, and I can kinda tell when someone's unhappy or needs community or is just a little stuck and it's just always been easy for me to do. You know, I was in, like, the S g student Government Association when I was in eighth grade, and it was important to me to stand out. In fact, you know, my singer super was best dressed. And I was so proud of that. I
didn't care about my grades. I mean, I just like... To stand out because... That didn't happen in my home. And so, you know, I think it's a combination of organized sports I... You can really tell a difference of women who played organized sports and how they work with other women. So I'm grateful that I had that experience. My first job was at a country club that was kind of near our house. We weren't members, but, you know, being able to, you know, talking to people and my tips depended on it.
And so that went into being a bus girl and then a waitress and then a bartender, So in order to make... And I had to pay for my own college. I to pay for all my own stuff I bought my first car all of that. And that's how I did it. And the nicer I was, and the more I listened, and the more I made people feel special, the more money I made. It made sense. Right? You know, speaking of buying your first car. I was at another event with you recently where I was having a conversation with a woman,
and I said, how are you here? She said, oh, I sold Elaine a car. I said, wait. Wait. What? She said, oh, yeah. We're we're best friends, but, a couple years ago, I sold her a car. And we just connected and ever since then, I get to go to all these things that she brings people together around these causes that she supports So I wanna ask you what what inspires you to bring people together to connect people? What are you passionate about these days? Well, I think community has always saved me.
You know, there's a lot of books written about this and nothing about what I'm about to say is is my original thoughts. But You know, it's the antidote to depression. It's the antidote to addiction. It's just this feeling of connection that I never had. With the family that I grew up with. You know, I had to kind of learn by default how to create that for myself. And be a part of that. Especially since we moved to Colorado and we live right dab in the middle of nature.
And I'm, you know, currently working on a I've had a lot of opportunities to really think about that, and I don't like to feel lonely. I also don't want other people to feel lonely. I think that the the most honest answer I can say is, like, just this constant wanting to fit in and wanting to fit in, and now, you know, I'm a 54 year old woman, So I don't necessarily need to fit in anymore, but I like to be around interesting people. I'm very curious about people. I always wanna
learn new things. I have... Lots of different communities. I have my hoffman community. I have the kids I grew up with, You know, that we all went to high school together community. I have my college community. I have other therapeutic methods community. I mean, you know that, you know, I'm really active with the star house. So I've got that community. And in my thirties with in my first marriage, we were in that political scene in Dc.
So I also learned a lot by watching masters and just observing and like, who that worked and that was easy. And So I kind of, like, created mentors all over the place and some of the people that I call a mentor probably I don't even know that they were a mentor of mine, but, you know, watching people who had what I wanted. You know, that ease and that grace and being able to talk to anyone. And, you know, but I do think that 1 of the biggest skills that my parents gave me,
and I... Didn't realize until recently, was this ability to move in and out. So I have lots of different circles of friends, and they're all over the map in terms of what they look like, How much money do they make where they live, bubble blah blah. And all that other stuff has not ever been as important to me as as connection. And are you still trying to fit in or do you feel like now? It sounds like you belong because you're... Part of the human experience, common humanity.
Yeah. I mean, I think we all have that in us. I think it's a human thing that we wanna be loved. And we wanna fit in and and contribute. I don't necessarily feel like I have to prove myself so much anymore. And I think that's just up by virtue partially of, like, where I'm in my life, you know, just being happy with all the many blessings that I have. I do think. I mean, III still wear a mask sometimes. I mean, I just had an experience, a work experience on another continent.
But it was difficult for me the first couple days, partially because I blew up my hair dryer. I blew up my curling iron, just because of the electric current, I didn't feel like myself the whole time. And I was really uncomfortable even though the people I work with are some of my best friends, and you know, but I just was I was very uncomfortable, and I was in a different country in a very different culture, and you know, someone very gently and lovingly kinda noticed it, and I was honest about
it. Like, I'm uncomfortable. I never used to be able to do that. And I still can't say Uncomfortable and On I'm these 5 things, you know, I'd have to pull up my list, but, you know, just being able to just be human and let... All that other stuff go, that was such a part of my life before. I mean, I cared deeply about who I work with what my title was, Death that the doc because that was all the things that defined me.
And I think Hoffman was the first with time that I really started to think about those things don't define me, how I make people feel defines me. You know, and that's a lot of weight to carry around constantly? Like, am I gonna fit in? What should I wear with la la? And now I just... I'm I'm just very grateful for my life and things don't have to be perfect all the time, and gosh, it's such an easier way to live. Yes. Elaine, do you find yourself thinking back to your process
over 10 years ago? Does your mind float back? To those days, a in white sulfur Springs in the classroom on the grounds with your teachers, your classmates Well, I... I'm really fortunate because I really do. I mean, I keep in touch with every single person that was in my small group. Every single 1? Yeah. In the small group. Wow. We were pretty. Mean, that's 8 people. I mean, it's not big yeah. We in and a couple of us have actually gone on vacation together too, and probably half
of them have come to visit me. And when I go to there, places. I visit them. So, you know, they're really deep, very real friendships. David and I did the the couples retreat I did. I was so excited because what I did the q 2, you were 1 of my process teachers, and Matt Bran was, and he was my q 2 teacher, some of the folks from our process, we we went Q 2 together, which made it super special and I just...
Know, 1 of the biggest things I remember from from Hoffman and whether it was the process or q 2 or even the couples retreat is the laughter. You like, just cracking each other up, and it was just so simple and so funny, and we were all, like, children together, and I just loved that feeling of that deep connection and laughter or enjoy, and, you know, it's just no pretense. And so it's affected my life in a lot of ways. I mean, I I still do quad checks probably once a week.
And I think if anything I kinda pause now. Before I react. I think I was... I've always been kind of a reactive person, and I'm not as much that way anymore. And I listen to my body a lot more. I don't think I knew how to do that for 4 Hoffman. So good. Anything else you wanna share? Do you know, I think so much of being a connector, and it really has served me a lot in my life, whether it was my personal
life or my career or even... You know, in 12 step programs, sponsoring women and being sponsored and, you know, all of those things, it actually came from so many, experiences, growing up college, career, the restaurant business, all of that. But at the end of the day, I think it started unknowingly as trying to be relevant, you know, feeling like I was seen and heard that wasn't happening in my family.
So I think all of us just as a as a human race need those things, and it's really important for us to see each other and help each other. I mean, life is brutal sometimes. I mean, people lose jobs. They get divorced... And I've had all those experiences. So because of those experiences, it's given me a very highly tamed empathy. I'm really grateful that, you know, I do have this skill and it came out of rising from the ashes in many ways. But we've
all done some really fun things together. And, you know, most of my friendships are a lot like me. Like, we're curious. We like to try new things. We like to do new things. And so I'm just so grateful for the community that I'm part of, you're part of and hoffman played a really big role in in opening that up. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Grass, I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation.
And I'm Ras Rossi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access. To the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to Hop institute. Dot org.