- When you've checked all the boxes externally of what society and the world says will make you happy and it's successful, et cetera, there's no more boxes to check and you still feel that there's something missing and the only thing you can do is go inward. And that is both exciting and at the same time, very daunting. - Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute.
I'm your host, Sharon Moore, and I hope that you enjoy today's conversation and that the stories shared by our graduates impact move and inspiring. Hello everyone and welcome back. My guest today is Blake Makoski. Blake is the founder of Tom Shoes, a philanthropist in the psychedelic space and a huge supporter of the Hoffman Institute. I'm very excited to have him. Blake, welcome to the show. - Thank you for having me. - So we're on the Hoffman podcast, so let's start there.
When did you do the process and, and what was happening in your life? What brought you to the process? - Well, I did the process in 2017. We had just had our first child and I was also in the process of running my company, Tom Shoes, and we had brought in a new financial partner, and so there was a lot of changes going on at the company.
I mean, basically just, there was a lot of change going on in my life period, you know, having a new kid, you know, having gotten married, you know, five years earlier, having a new financial partner at the company, lots of changes and I just was feeling a little untethered and a little bit, I think just lost, you know, just a little bit lost with like how much had happened so fast and how complex my life had become.
My, uh, wife at the time had gone to the process about five years earlier and uh, it was very beneficial to her. And she had been encouraging me to go for multiple years, and so I finally, uh, decided to sign up. I think I had signed up like four times before I actually went , you know, so I, I'm sure that I'm not the only person that's done that, but I finally took the time away from work, decided to go, and boy am I glad I did. It was one of the most life-changing experiences of my life.
- Had you done things like this before or was it a totally new experience for you? - It was a totally new experience for me. I mean, since then I've been on many retreats. I've worked with plant medicines, I've worked with many great therapists, done a lot of inner child work. You know, Hoffman is really the, the jumping off part to having any relationship with my inner child or my, my spiritual self, um, emotional self.
I, until then had just been a hard driving athlete and an entrepreneur and really left no time or space for looking inside myself. - Wow. I can imagine patterns had a lot to do with all that drive. - Yeah. , we can go over the pattern list whenever you're ready, but yeah, there's a, there's a lot of patterns connected to drive, you know, needing to be the center of attention, you know, needing to be the golden child.
It's very clear to see, you know, how I became who I became, you know, what drove me. And it all makes total sense with, you know, looking at the kind of negative love syndrome and, and all my patterns. - And so how has that transition been like going from somebody whose patterns in a way brought you to this success and brought you to being the center of attention and, and so high achieving and then really seeing that pattern for what it's worth and shifting must have been quite a shift for you?
How have you navigated that? - Yeah, it's interesting. I was kind of looking at my Hoffman workbook, which I still have before the podcast, and I was looking at some of the notes in day one and day two and I forgot how angry I was at my teacher. I was really angry at Hoffman and at the teacher because they were trying to tell me that these patterns were negative in my life. And I was saying, hold on.
Without these patterns, without this pressure that I experienced growing up both externally and internally, I never would've created Toms. I never would've done these things that had helped so many people around the world. So how can you possibly tell me that these patterns are in my way? And boy did I have a lot of resistance to looking deeply at these patterns and how they had had some negative influences in my life.
That was day one and day two I'd say, as you see my, uh, my transformation, I would say through the process you see me really recognizing and reconciling with how these patterns did serve me for a time, but ultimately they were keeping me from living my most authentic life. - Yeah, Hoffman teachers, why are you telling me my patterns are negative? Come on. I love that.
- Well, and especially, you know, attributing 'em back to my parents is really hard for me because, you know, I grew up with very loving family, thankfully no, you know, kind of capital t traumas, you know, my mom is a stay-at-home mom, you know, picking me up from school every day, you know, making dinner every night. My dad was home for dinner every night, you know, working hard at the baseball games, at the tennis matches. I mean, you know, by many standards.
Uh, I had this idyllic childhood, you know, when I was told to kind of get angry at my parents for these patterns, that was really difficult for me. - What would you say was the turning point when you started to surrender to this process as opposed to resisting it like this? - I think when I started to see that my parents had patterns and that they were the result of their parents' patterns and I started to have a lot of compassion.
There was a day, I don't know what day it was, where you really developed compassion for your parents in the way that they are and know the way that they had influence on you to develop these patterns. And that really was the turning point for me. - Do your families, uh, members, have they also done the process or is this something you can share with them? - Yeah, so my brother has done it and my mom has done it. My dad has not done it and my sister has not done it.
And I would say almost every single one of my friends has done it by this point. I mean, I think I've sent, uh, you know, probably 30 or 40 of my closest friends and then I've sent, you know, hundreds of other strangers through the scholarship program. - And so this was in 20, you said 2017. So how would you say this still is alive in you?
- You know, I think it really is about that pattern recognition and when you see that you're starting to go into a vicious cycle through a series of patterns kind of coming up and playing out, you know, I don't catch it every time, but I do catch it most of the time. And when I do, I'm able to really see that I'm not my patterns and there's a right road that I can go down and there's a wrong road. And that that choice is really up to me.
You know, I think that that's the thing that I really see is that like having the awareness, you know, really allows me to eventually have compassion for myself of what's going on. And then with that compassion gives me a choice to act on the right road. - And you see, given that choice, you still could be a driven athlete and a driven entrepreneur, but you have the choice, you're not doing it out of pattern and autopilot.
- Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that I'm struggling with to be completely honest right now is I don't have a big project I'm working on. I don't have a company that I'm driving or uh, anything that is creating kind of a public identity, which has been beautiful for the past, you know, six or seven years since I sold the company. But now I'm living in Marin, California, very close to San Francisco.
Most of the people I'm meeting are working, they're building things, they're entrepreneurs or venture capitalists. There's a lot of, uh, identity based on what they're doing in the world. And I am trying to figure out how can I exist with just being in the world and do I have to be doing something to feel okay? I almost feel like it's time to go back to Hoffman because there's a lot that I need to work with there. There's a lot of, um, uneasiness I have.
I even go as far to say insecurity around like who am I if I'm not what I produce or what I do. And that has been easy to do or easy to not worry about the last six or seven years since I sold the company because I've been living in places like Jackson Hole and Costa Rica and you know, just been able to kind of lose myself in all these adventure activities.
But now that I'm here, I'm kind of forced to look at like who is Blake when Blake isn't identified as an athlete or through these kind of activities that I've been so engaged in and without a company that he's running or starting or founding. And so a lot of these patterns are really starting to come up again and and really challenging me to deal with 'em.
- I love the honesty in that and I think it's actually important for us as graduates and even successful human beings who also care to be whole and continue to evolve as humans to name the fact that these things are secular and they don't go away. It's just we now know how to respond to them better. We have a toolkit. I really appreciate the honesty in that. I had a thought as you were saying that, do you end up catching yourself going back to an identity that already exists?
Like, I'm the founder of Tom's shoes, or, oh, I'm the athlete that did X, Y, Z or in real time. Do you just sit in the discomfort of it? - I think it's a little bit more the discomfort of it. I definitely have no desire to rest in the laurels of the identity of Tom's. Like yes, that's how most people know me and that don't know me and that just the public or people I meet from time to time that are new acquaintances, that's how they typically know me.
But I don't really have a desire to be known by that. Like I think it's more the discomfort that I don't have something I'm known for besides that , you know, besides a dad to my kids or a husband to my wife. What I'm really searching for is to feel enough.
That's the thing that I think we're all searching for in some way or fashion is that like, I'm good enough just as Blake, like I don't need to have the mask of the founder of Tom's or one of the largest philanthropists and psychedelics or these different things that have been attached to my Wikipedia page, if you will. I can also just be Blake, a guy who's just trying to get through the day and do some good and be kind and have some laughs and some giggles and enjoy the changing of the season.
That is the goal that I have right now. And that's really, really hard. - It almost feels like the metaphor I'm getting is like a monk who goes to the mountains and does the inner work and then goes back into the world. Is that monk able to stay connected to that purity, to that authenticity.
You know, you had the adventure chapter where you were able to really integrate all that inner work that you did and now you put yourself in a community that is surrounded by high achievers and people with titles, et cetera. And here you are with kind of seeing, okay, how do I get to be both this person that's done the inner work now in this setting where it's very seductive and tempting to wanna hide behind an identity or an accomplishment?
- Yeah, I think the thing is is as much as I would love to strap on another identity or dive deep into another business adventure, I just don't think my soul is allowing that. Like, I think that there's a reason why I'm not excited about anything right now. You know, many people call it the dark night of the soul, and I really think I'm going through that because I'm being called to do more inner work. I'm being called to go deeper into who am I outside of my identities, my patterns, et cetera.
And it's definitely one of the most uncomfortable phases I've ever experienced in my life. At the same time, I deeply believe it's happening for a really strong purpose. And so I'm trying just to, with the discomfort and at the same time not let it overcome me so that I can't experience the basic joys of life. So it's a, it's a dance right now. - Dark Night of the Soul is usually very uncomfortable.
Have you had other moments where you feel like you had versions of Dark Nights of the Soul, or is this one of the first times, - You know, since selling the company that was almost seven years ago. I've had some of these experiences usually around this time of year, late fall, end of the year type time, nothing to this intensity.
This feels like almost like, you know, God or whatever you wanna, you know, wherever you attest to a higher self has been kind of knocking, you know, very patiently off and on the past few years saying, Hey, it is time to go deeper. It's time to really, you know, meet yourself in a way you've never met yourself. And I think that I was able to say, okay, great, but I'm gonna go surfing for four hours today and then play with my kids and then, you know, have a nice dinner and go to bed.
And there's not a lot of time for that now I'm here. There aren't the physical distractions that I once had and I'm forced to really sit with, you know, myself. And I think that's causing this to be a more intense experience with regard to the dark night of the Soul than I've ever had. And it's so interesting, we're doing this podcast right now because I mean, I'm right in the middle of it.
There's no way around me sitting here and bullshitting you and saying everything's great and Hoffman changed my life and I'm so happy. And I do my quadri check every morning and listen to my river of life, uh, meditation on the way to work. That would be a just a complete lie. The truth is, is I, I'm really struggling right now to find peace without jumping into something that will give me immediate gratification or identification.
- And yet you're holding yourself to sit still right here in the, in the discomfort. - I don't feel like I have a choice. . Yeah, I mean I guess that you always have a choice. I mean, there's always a way to distract, you know, with substances or other things that can be destructive in your life. Thankfully that's not the path I'm going down.
I am trying to use this time to read and learn and go deeper, but it really seems like if I had not been to Hoffman before, this is the time that I would go to Hoffman. So for people who are kind of listening and maybe thinking, okay, should I go to Hoffman or not?
You know, if you're feeling any of this discomfort or questioning or challenges that I'm feeling like this is a great time to go because you can learn tools that can really help with this and some of those tools today are still helping me. - I'm also struck by Hoffman was in a way your entry and since then you've done retreats and plant medicine and you know, it was the beginning of, it seems like a lifelong devotion to inner work.
Here you are at this level of depth that quite possibly you've never been at. And the dark night of the soul feels darker than ever. And like you say, I don't have a choice, I have to sit through this. There's a part of me that feels like, yeah, it's because you've done your inner work and that's why you can't not sit in this.
I also just on a macro level, I feel that I don't know a lot about you, but I can tell that you're drawn to do good in the world given the combination of that plus the deep work that you're doing, plus whatever awaits in our world and who we need to lead us and be kind of good vibrational forces in our world seems like there's, there's a set, there's something happening here that is larger than us. - You know, I have to believe that.
I think that is what gives me solace in these times is that what I'm experiencing in the pain of it, I can't imagine that it's without a larger purpose.
I think that if people are looking out at my life from the outside, they see, you know, someone who built a company that really, I think changed the world, changed business, you know, helped millions of lives and he gave away a hundred million shoes during my time at Tom's inspired other businesses to incorporate giving beautiful wife a lovely home to live in, four amazing children, you know, with my adopted son from Ethiopia as well.
And I think that they would say like, this guy must be the happiest guy in the world. The truth is, is why I have great joy and great gratitude for the blessings in my life. I'm still feeling this sense of emptiness. I think the only thing that that points to, and the reason why that's so valuable is it requires you to keep going and to keep looking inside to fulfill whatever is eating at you.
Because when you've checked all the boxes externally of what society and the world says will make you happy and it's successful, et cetera, and there's no more boxes to check and you still feel that there's something missing and the only thing you can do is go inward. And that is both exciting and at the same time very daunting. - And you happen to be in the right, in the thick of it in this very moment. - Yes. - Do you feel alone in these moments?
Do you isolate or where do you go to get support, get a sense of belonging? - You know, I've really been fortunate that I've cultivated some incredibly strong male friendships over the past 15 years. Uh, we had this group, we call it the Rugged Adventure Club or the Rack, it's about 15 guys that we try to do a trip every year together. And in the middle we also do a lot of text messaging.
And they have been incredibly helpful, very aware of the challenges I've been facing and they've really have been supportive, you know, in times when I really needed that support, they've encouraged me to believe that this is just a passing time and that it won't last. Just kinda like the weather going through. And uh, I'm extremely grateful. Most of those guys have been too Hoffman, by the way. So they've been very supportive. My wife has been incredibly supportive.
I've had to lean on her a lot during this time. She has also been to Hoffman, she's a recent grad. She went about a year and a half ago and she's been really supportive and encouraging that this is just part of the journey, really seeing that this is not happening to me, this is happening for me. And I've been really grateful for that. And my immediate family, my parents, my brother, my sister continue to check on me during this time.
You know, I think everyone knows that I have chosen this path of being a seeker, of being an explorer of this inner adventure. And what comes with that is some really challenging things to face with yourself. I don't think anyone's surprised that with that choice comes some really challenging moments. And while myself and probably everyone who's supporting me wishes that this storm would pass, they also recognize that there's a reason that his descended upon me.
I have faith that in time I will understand that better and better, and because of that I'll be able to help others and that storm descends upon them. And I think that's really kind of what the whole journey is about. - That's beautiful. I get a sense that helping others has always been something that's been important to you. Is that right?
- Absolutely. I mean, I think I got that from seeing my parents being charitable through church and through other local organizations and my dad being a doctor and my mom writing a cookbook to help people with their nutrition. It's just always been kind of a part of our life. I think serendipitously through Tom's, I got to experience so much of that in such an intense way all over the world. I got to see such joy from children that we gave shoes to, or nonprofit organizations that we empowered.
And it really is something that if I could do anything every day, it'd be to wake up and to help others relieve their suffering. Figuring out the next way to do that is something that is always top of my mind. - How did you create this model of giving when you started Tom's? Where did that come from? - You know, the interesting thing is, is it was like just a random idea. , there was no business plan, there was no like epiphany moment.
It was just like, Hey, I found these shoes in Argentina and they're really cool and I've never seen anything like 'em. And at the same time, I know there's a lot of people who are very impoverished down here and don't have money for school uniforms or shoes. And I see a lot of kids barefoot in the street and why not give a pair every time we sell a pair? You know, we can afford to do that. The shoes aren't that expensive.
And that way when people are wearing our shoes, they can feel good that they help someone. That would be kind of a cool idea. Let's, let's do it . And that was it. And I had no idea that the world would respond the way that it did and the effect it would have on small and large multinational businesses. I really feel that God was using me as a mouthpiece to show that business needed to wake up and to really look at a lot more than just their shareholders.
Really look at what some people call it, the tri bottom line or higher consciousness business, or I was just a vehicle for that. And the company was really a, a way to motivate people to think that way. And I think that's really our, our Tom's legacy way more than the number of shoes we've given away is how many businesses have adopted the giving philosophy. And it's something that I'm very proud of and I see emulated every single day.
- Yeah, I I like the way you said that, that God was using you as a vehicle. I get a sense it's about to happen again and not necessarily in a way that we can imagine in our, you know, human limited visioning, but the fact that you're in this dark night of the soul, the fact that you're so, like you say, I don't have a choice.
Like you're in, you're on the ride, you're committed to doing this inner work and yet you know that you have this channel, you know that you've experienced what it feels like to be the vehicle and to change the trajectory of something like the Western business model that's pretty big. It makes me feel very much like, ooh, something really is about to happen here.
And I don't mean to project an outcome, but it does feel that there is a connection between you and you use the word God and you're doing this deeper work for whatever lies ahead. - Well, that encourages me, . I'm glad that you can see that. I've had other friends and family members say the same thing. It's hard to see it when you're in it, and that's for sure. And at the same time, I have a sense of humor around it because it sometimes I feel like that's the only path forward.
I can't imagine that, you know, as long as I don't give up, this is not happening for a very divine purpose to serve many people or just a few people. The initial use of me as a child of God and as if someone who is put on this planet to make a difference really was a one to many. It helped millions of people and it helped change kind of the way that business is done. But maybe this time it'll be to help one person or two people, or three people like I am.
I never feel and never felt that being used for a greater purpose or good mattered, how many people are affected. I'm really staying open to this idea that I might be going through all of this to save one life with that one life. There's a real purpose to that. And there's a real divine plan for that life. Or it might be to speak to millions of lives to get, I'm not quite sure, but it is a thing that gives me the encouragement to stay with it, to not distract, to not avoid as hard as it is.
And as much as I would just love to do that, I'm being called to do some real work right now, this time is you're catching me right smack dab in the middle of that. And it's an uncomfortable and challenging time, but I know that I don't have a choice. It whether I like it or not, I'm having these feelings, these this deepness, this sorrow, this sadness, this hopelessness at times that is, uh, unshakeable. There's nothing externally I can do to change it.
And that is telling me that it is it truly an inner journey. - Yeah. And, and one that, like you said, you're not, uh, avoiding or turning numb and you're even putting a microphone in front of your face and showing up to a podcast in this authentic state. That's courage. That's authenticity. - Trust me, I, I thought many times about canceling this podcast. - I bet I can imagine. - There was multiple times in the last week I saw it on my calendar and I was like, I don't wanna do this right now.
But then it was interesting today I was like, well, maybe this is part of it, maybe even now when I don't have the solution, even now when I'm in the depth of it sharing that I am and it's possible. And at the same time I'm not giving up and I'm holding on to hope that this is happening for a larger purpose. You know, maybe that in itself is part of the purpose. And so I decided not to bail.
- It's huge that you showed up for this and the ears that this will land on are meant to hear this story and meant to hear your current and authentic and raw state. Because I'm certain you're not alone. And I'm certain it'll be comforting for people to know that you too are experiencing something like this. And you too have to do the dance of come on, stay, stay with it. I know there's something bigger here. I know there's something bigger here.
I'm surrendering, I take my hat off that you did it. And if you really want to make positive impact, I, I feel strongly that this will do exactly that. So I wanna ask about one thing that you mentioned, which is that you have an adopted son. Yes. Tell me more. - Yeah. So his name is Tu. He is 26 years old. I met him when he was 12 in Ethiopia when we were, uh, delivering shoes in a remote village.
Now you can't legally adopt a 12 year old in Ethiopia, so I guess you would call more I'm his guardian. He has eight brothers and sisters and parents in Ethiopia still who are very supportive of our relationship and how I've taken him under my wing. But, um, yeah, I've been supporting him since 12.
He went from, you know, not speaking any English to graduating top of his class at Wake Forest and now he's at USC Film School and he is making amazing films that are getting nominated for awards already. And he is truly one of the most inspiring human beings I've ever met. It's been such a joy for me to see this young boy who I met grow into such an amazing man.
- So where, where my growth mind and heart go is you must have seen so many people, kids, communities, and given who you are and how connected you are to doing good in the world, how is it that you, I feel like you could, if you had your way, you would've adopted 500 little beings . Um, how did this in that he was the one, - You know, it's just one of those things that was a great mystery in life.
We met, we played soccer with a bunch of kids on the top of a field in Ethiopia with a ball that was made of trash. And we walked to a school that was being built by a friend and he stayed by my side and spoke a little bit of broken English to me. And it's such a long story of how it happened.
And there's actually a beautiful, beautiful article if someone wants to read it, if you Google Wake Forest, his school that he went to, and Tu W-E-B-E-T-U, you can read the whole story 'cause there's a beautiful journalist that wrote a story about it in the tu in the Lake Forest magazine. But I gave him an opportunity to contact me through a business card, which he had no idea what that was or no understanding of what an email or a computer. He'd never seen one before.
But I explained to him if he took that card into a city, which he had never been at, 'cause he could find me, and if he wanted to go to school and his parents were okay, then I would help him. And that was kind of the beginning. And, you know, weeks, maybe a month later, he found himself journeying to a city to give this card to then have an internet cafe send me a message. And that was the beginning of it.
Um, which was a very improbable because everyone in his village, including his family, believed that everyone outside the village were cannibals. And so he was horrified to leave his village for the fact that he might get attacked. So it's, it's really a story that is, it's really hard to believe, especially when you meet him now and he is making award winning films. But, uh, it's been truly one of the great joys of my life, having that experience with him.
- I mean, it feels like not only did he have the courage to believe this man, hold this card, go into a city all these first times to follow this card, this business card, and reach out to you. But you also answered that email right. In a sea of inbound emails. You answered it. - Yeah. I'm so thankful that I did. - We'll definitely make sure to include the link of that article in the episode notes.
And, um, I just wanna close out by saying you have been so incredibly raw and soft and vulnerable and honest. I'm so touched by your presence and, and your courage and I thank you for sharing with me and of course all the people who will be listening.
- Yeah, it's, it's been a beautiful hour and you know, I had no idea that this was gonna go in this direction at all when we started, but you know, I think that my work has started in 2017 with Hoffman and has been, you know, kind of continued with so many different modalities and experiences. I think that one thing that I've realized is like, life is too short, not to be honest and vulnerable and just be where you are at.
And it never gets you into trouble because oftentimes there's so many other people experiencing a very similar thing. And one of the most important things when you're struggling or suffering is to feel that you're not alone. And I don't believe any of us are alone on this journey. - Yeah. And I bet by you showing up this way, you've just validated for so many that they're not alone in what they're feeling. - Not alone. And we can't give up hope.
We have to believe that there's a bigger purpose to any suffering we experience is leading us. It's leading us somewhere beautiful. I believe that. And that's why I don't give up. - Like I say, we stop right there 'cause that's beautiful. Perfect place to pause. I'm, uh, so grateful. I wish you a lovely evening and I'm so excited for all the people to hear what we just experienced, this beautiful conversation. - Thank you Sharon. - Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Rasi.
I'm the CEO and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. - And I'm Rasin Rossi Hoffman, teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. - Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love - In themselves, in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to Hoffman institute org.