Linda Har is the embodiment of love. She leads with her spirit in all of her interact. She has an innate ability to hold space and create safety. She believes that everything that wants to be seen wants to be heard can be healed can evolve all through loving presence. And before we begin, a portion of this episode makes mention of sexual abuse, rape and trauma, but in broad not graphic terms, but because of this may not be suitable for all audiences.
And I hope though through this conversation, you can get a sense of the love that Linda ema. Welcome to loves everyday radius. A podcast brought to you can by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Liz Sever and on this podcast we engage in conversation and learn from Hoffman graduates. We'll dive deep into their journeys of self discovery and explore how the process transformed their internal at external worlds.
They share how their spirit and light now burn brighter in all directions of their lives Their loves everyday radius. More highlander, Hi, Liz. I'm so excited to have you on today as I beloved coworker, and I just remember. First time ever met you you were the embodiment of love, And so I'm so happy to have you on today and get to experience that with you. I I wonder if my partner would agree. I'm sure. You are many things. I know that you mother and grandmother are definitely at the top
of your list. And you've been a hoffman teacher for how top she teacher and coach for how long now. Well, I started my training in 98, so that's, like, 24 years with the institutes. But but I'm actually... I actually... Officially retired in December of of 22. So just, you know, a couple months ago, but I'm not sure we've accepted that yet. You know, We're we're we're not letting that happen quite yet, But, yes. I'm a guest teacher. So I I still keep my toe in the water.
It was not an easy decision, but I am ancient and so... When, you also have a... You've been... I know you've been very active. Active in this world of healing and tell us a little bit about your background. Yeah. Well, so it's it's a long life at this point. Right? I'm I'm 75. So been a lot a lot a lot of years. But if I go way back to the very beginning, You know, I sort of grew up in the sixth. D's in the consciousness
revolution. So that launched me into really being fascinated by human consciousness and healing and I started out. Kind of hard to believe at this point as a do. It wasn't even called to do back then, but But I attended a lot of births, and I had a lot of children in the meantime. Right? That was 1 of the side effects of being A do.
Was I mean... Children and I had 5 kids, and I trained as a Waldorf of teacher and had a little nursery school for a while, but I really found my love with trans personal psych, and psycho, and had a private practice for many, many years, and then I encountered the process. And that was the love of my life. I think when I did the process. Despite the fact that I have done so much work.
As a therapist, I went to every workshop and read every book and was fascinated by transformation, and all of my clients were, like, teachers, you know, that everybody was so fascinating to work with but I never really could move past my self loa. No matter what I did, and the process, just came at the perfect time, and I walked out of that week, my life changed, and I wanted that for everybody. So that's why my private practice limp along for a while, but I was traveling
so much. I couldn't really sustain it, and I went fully into being in a hoffman teacher and coach, and a program designer. I worked with youth at risk, Now called unlocking futures actually. And just had a really full full full career with the Institute. I loved it. I loved it. It was my community. So now I'm back in private practice. Oh, well, and when did you take the process? I think it was 96.
Pretty sure it was 96. The teacher training started in 98, so that was back in the day when it was still 8 days. Instead of 7, I took it in Rhode Island at a wonderful site on the ocean, which is no longer a site But how did you hear about the process? Because, I mean, I I didn't take... You know, I took it several years ago, but even when I was looking for these things, I still felt like I had found this secret. I just... I hadn't heard of anyone
that I didn't hoffman. So it always amaze me to hear about people that have done it, you know, 20 something years ago. So how did it first come into your awareness? Some people may know Sharon Kennedy. She's another teacher. And Sharon and I were at bad point in time, we were at the psycho since. To do in New York. She was a year ahead of me. And we were getting certified in psycho, which is, it's it's similar to internal family system to which is so popular now.
We were in a pure supervision group together, and there was a a John bradshaw event. They called them. For people that never saw John Bradshaw, he was kind of almost like a television evangelist for trans personal psychology. He would bring hundreds of people into a room and do this deep inner her child work, and you'd have a room full of people weeping and crying and and they wanted a therapists to volunteer in case there were any...
People that needed assistance. And so Sharon and I volunteered, we were very curious to see John Bradshaw, and Barbara and Connie Were there. And Barbara still teaches. Connie was my teacher, and she retired some years ago, But they had been with Bob pretty much since the very beginning, and they were out there. We had an East Coast coordinator at that point in time, and they were out there at this event, and we met them, and they told us about the process.
Sharon went, And at the time, I thought, oh, I can't possibly afford this. I was going through divorce, and I can't possibly afford this. So... So I didn't go. Sharon went. And then some 2 years later, we were still in peer supervision. And she made the comment. I'll never forget it. She said, there's never been a day since the process that I haven't loved myself. And I thought, whoa, I can't even imagine what that is like. And I was in a new relationship, and he paid my tuition.
And the rest as they say as history. And taking us back to Rhode Island back to your process. What what do you think it was about the process that allowed you to unlock or look into this as you were as you were mentioning, this the self loa that you were curious about. But what do you think in the process was it for you? First of all, I think that the... Process is just a brilliant
design. It's right. And and I've heard this from students again, and again, like, Gi, I wish we were going to fill in the blank, and that would be the very next thing that was gonna happen. You know, there's a there's a a flow in the process that is so magical, and and just perfect So it was the whole thing, but 1 of the things that I I think was very powerful for me that, frankly, I would have never gone to the process. If I had known that we were going to have to do
Cath authority work. I would have not gone. It was there in the print, but I didn't see it. Even as a therapist, I had encouraged people to do cath work, but I'd never done it myself. It was so dangerous. In my young family had a very difficult mom, very wounded mother, and it was dangerous to feel any anger whatsoever. Let alone express it. Oh my god. That would have been really dangerous. And so I was terrified. Of allowing myself to express the rage that I've been bottling up on my life.
And I remember when I finally let go into that and just released all this anger that I'd been carrying for... I was 47 already. That I've been carrying all my life. And after that, when we finished the cath work on mother in those days, we had 1 day for mother and 1 day for father. And when I finished the work, there was so much energy and vitality and joy in me. It was like, III couldn't believe how much energy I had used up battling and holding down these feelings.
You know, and here I was with all this inter... I mean, my body was tired, but I had so much energy and vitality, enjoy and freedom, and I was felt so celebratory. And then all of that beautiful energy that was released was now turned toward compassion, and love, and it was amazing. It was perfect. And just, you know, recognizing that everything that is arises within my own consciousness.
Right? Within the sensations of my body within the emotions of my emotional self, my thoughts, my beliefs, my spirit, my sense of my own awareness, my own spirit, my own presence, all going on inside of me, and I love that. I love that. I love my life. It was a moment of really recognizing my own organism and my own being and how much joy and alive ness and just everything. Is in that. And all that self loading they just kind of melted away and. It was like, whoa, all that stuff is just
learned. It's all learned. It's not who I am. And so I I could separate from it and see it, and then recognize how in a funny way that all of those patterns and and all of that self all of that self monitoring. Had been like, a distorted form of loving myself by keeping myself small and safe. Right? That was well outgrown. Well, well, well long outgrown, and then it was no longer about safety. It was about expression and savor being alive and all of that. So it was a huge huge change.
That took place. I was just ripe for it. It was perfect. Perfect timing. Was beautiful. What I'm curious. I've... I love the honesty. You had been telling others to explore cath work and just hadn't explored it for yourself. Over the years, what have you found is helpful in enrolling students in cath expression work? That's a good question. I think the most powerful awareness that I've come to in watching students through the years. And I I will often say this when I'm teaching.
Is the genes are really afraid to their parents, Right? I mean, there are many things. But that 1 thing, I I will often ask that question. Like, you know, how many of you have this. Belief that you should honor your mother and father. And I really can see how keeping all that negativity all that learn behavior, all those adaptive strategies, all of that stuff that we adopt from our parents, doesn't honor them at all infected honors them.
And if they could do anything that we wouldn't continue to keep their negative legacy see alive. You know, what honors our parents is to is still live our lives with love and expression and fullness and enjoy, That's what honors our parents. And I'm a mom. Right? I have 5 kids, and I can see patterns that I have actually... Moved beyond that I've transformed them, please. Tell me ever imagine that I've transformed them all, but But but some of those patterns that I've...
That I've really cleaned up are still alive in my kids. And that's heartbreaking, and I would do anything and did, you know, every 1 of them went to the process. I would do anything to see them not have to carry the weight of those things that I used struggled with for so many decades. I was young when I had my first child that was only 23. So, you know, my oldest child is burdened with a lot of my insecurity, and all of them, I watched change when they went through the process.
You know, none of us are perfect, Of course, but huge change, some more than others, but every 1 of them, shed a lot of stuff when they did the process. So so... Yeah. So I think that's... You know, we don't wanna keep that stuff alive, why keep that stuff alive? You have to get it out. And even if you can find some understanding and even some forgiveness on an intellectual level, it's kind of like frosting over garbage really.
Because underneath it is still all this hurt and anger and it a child that needs somebody to advocate for them and actually see them and validate, yeah, that was really hard. That was really hard and you didn't deserve that. And all of those messages that you're un or that you have to be this way or that way, in order to connect and belong, you know, that was all adapting to your environment, and you can let that go now, and your parents were wanted to. In the same
way you were... And they did the best they could. You know, it's like you can come back around with a much deeper understanding and forgiveness because we're all in this boat together. Without pretending that it didn't happen without saying, oh, well, I understand it, so therefore it doesn't hurt anymore, understanding doesn't make the hurt go and you have to allow that child to have a voice tell their story and get seen and heard by yourself.
So in this beautifully safe and ben prevalent environment. Thank you for that, Linda. What I'm curious, you started off. As a do. I think that is so fascinating. Was it just the... What drew you to to to that? Well, It's interesting. I never thought I wanted to have children, probably because my own childhood was so fraught, and painful and difficult. And I didn't think that I would be able to be a good mom. But, you know, at my age, I got married in
19 68. You'd get married have children. That's what you do. In my generation. That's what you do. Right? So I got pregnant. And, of course, that was when people were first starting to bring in this whole era of natural childbirth before that, it was a nightmare in my with birth. And I so loved the experience of giving birth. It was, yes. Of course, it was painful. But I remember when my daughter was born and they handed her to me. And I had this... I would call it a mystical experience really.
I had this experience of energy of a lance of energy, just come right through the crown of my head and w into my heart, and my heart is blew open with love for this little baby. Oh my gosh. It was... It was truly an astonishing experience. I just fell in love with the whole process of birth of bringing this... Being in and and, you know, who is this being And who will she become? And, you know, how will she unfold? And I just loved that.
And I really wanted to support other people to be fully present for their births. And so There was an organization a international Childbirth Education Association, and they wanted to train a lay person. Because they found that the medical people were kind of hovering around the machines and not paying much attention to the do the woman giving birth And so I was a pilot program for them to train a lay person.
And this was an Ann arbor, Michigan. So there was a lot of freedom for me to go into even cesar sections and hospital birth so with women who had no understanding of what was happening, completely clueless about what was happening in their bodies and home births, the whole range, every time, every time, It was like the spiritual world just filled the room with the birth. I it was, like, magic. The spiritual world right here present all around us in this amazing sacred moment of childbirth.
I loved it. Well, what a gift to get to have that be your job? Yeah. And then that launched me into curiosity about... How to raise children in a way that wouldn't shut down their imagination or need them free to become who they are, and that that took me into the Waldorf of teacher training and the Waldorf of education, and but I had enough kids of my own that I never actually todd. I worked with the inner children of my clients in the therapy work. I was just gonna say I would have
loved to been able to go... You would have been the most precious loving Waldorf teacher. But I... What I'm also hearing is this was all before Hoffman and negative love syndrome. Right? We talk about that concept over and over it's the the lens which we do the work, and it sounds like you were already aware of that well before the concept was even introduced to you through Oh, yeah. I wouldn't have had a name for it. You know, it's funny. I I actually... In the psycho,
we worked very much with parts. Much like they do in internal family systems, and you would see the shamed child or you would see the angry child or you would see the critical mother or the ina please love me. All these different sub personalities that then during the process, we named just patterns. And even the awareness of the spiritual self, in psycho. It was simply called the higher self, I believe. It was the anger. I was just
so angry. I was so angry with the way that I had been treated so angry with my mother, and I was so afraid to express it or admit it. So I I do think that was the piece that was so really missing for me. But again, it it was the flow, the flow, how 1 thing followed another and all weaving through the process beautiful visualizations that would take me into a deep connection with my own spirituality. And, you know, I didn't really have a
a religious connection. I had broken with the religion of my childhood when I was 11, actually. When I was told that there were people in the world who were going to go to hell because they they've never... I don't know. Maybe we shouldn't go there. It just broke my heart. You know, I
have cousins. Our missionaries, and it just broke my heart that they believed that if they didn't convert people that they would be doomed to it felt so unfair and so unjust, and I had a big sobbing experience with my sunday school teacher, and she she couldn't help me, and I just stomped out and that was that. At 11. Yeah. That is pretty profound and powerful. That at 11, you saw something that felt so wrong to your inner world that you... Well, said no. No more. Really wrong.
Really really wrong. I just could not justify it at all. It it just didn't make any sense to me. But then, you know, as a young woman coming out of the sixties and the university and all of that. And and I became involved then with self realization fellowship and You know, the the whole influx of the eastern religions and so on and, like so many people that I got molested by my guru.
Which sent me out of that and on a spiritual odyssey, which has continued throughout my life of of just being fascinated by all the iterations of spirituality and how it's conceived in the paths and and the ways and means and all the different doors that that I think all open to the same place. Yeah. And even today, it seems everything that comes out is kind of red dressing what's always been so in in different words and different metaphors and different clothing.
And so it doesn't really matter whatever path harmon or or speaks to people. That's the right 1. That's the right 1 for them. 1, take me back to... I'm still on this an 11 year old standing her ground. Would you say that was 1 of the defining moments of you starting out on this quest I mean you spent your entire life and still to this day. Wildly dedicating to your own healing, but also
to the healing of others. And so it sounds like was that sort of the beginning of it or did it happened before that? Where did this fire get started? Well, that was the beginning of it in the sense that I was a really religious little girl. And I used to embarrass my father because he was raised by evangelical and he had a a strong anti religion streak in him, and I would embarrass him because I was so religious.
And it threw me out of that, and I went full full steam into my teenage years as a very wounded, you know, the mother daughter relationship was extremely wounding to me. It sent me into my high school years as a an a vowed atheist that only cared really about boyfriends and and shoes, and parties, and all of that, you know? So typical hormonal teenager, And it wasn't really until I got to the university of Michigan and in the sixties, and all of the the revolution that was going on on every
level conscious. And sexual and educational and political and social and encountered psychedelics, of course, that they were still legal when I was there, And in this whole world opened up to me and re reopened my love for the outer reaches of consciousness. Right, And I've been exploring that ever since, in many, many different ways. Very long time with Buddhism. I love. Buddhism. I love Buddhist psychology. I love people like Jack Corn and Tire rock, and...
Yeah. There's there's just so much out there. It's so rich. I just have to ask you because it... All of these years. I mean, so not even just... The 24 years of of being a hoffman teacher, but the decades before that. Right? Being in practice and dealing with other humans what have you learned about humans or about suffering about healing all these years? It's a really deep question. Will, I know what I have learned is that every single human being
Let me put it this way. Working at the process, what I really loved about the process was that as a teacher. Was that every single person that came through that door. Whatever they came in with, I can remember Sometimes I think, oh my gosh. Am I really gonna be able to spend the week with this person. Right? By the end of the week, and well before they end into the week. I could see that beautiful spark of spirit, their authentic self in them
and how truly beautiful it was. And by the end of the week, I used to say to my students. My gosh. I fallen in love with with 8 more people this week. I just would fall in love over and over and over again, and I went to the congo for 5 weeks. And worked with some women in the congo, 90 women and at a place called City of Joy, who had been in the conflicts around Lake, Ke and all of them had been raped and some dis dismembered. I mean, terrible trauma, terrible. And I was so moved.
So moved by the resilience and the spirit that was still intact, in these women. And I've worked in prisons too. I I worked with alternatives to violence for a while. And and just reliably, again, and again, and again, and again, when you really make a safe space for someone and you really listen to them, everybody wants to be seen and heard. And when you start seeing and hearing them, it might be very raw. But if you if you stay with them, and you really look and you really listen.
Eventually, this beauty emerges. I wanna tell a really quick little story about the congo I had no idea what I was gonna do with these women. No idea, and nobody would tell me what they wanted. They said just come and do something. And it's like, okay. Never been to the congo before. I don't... You know... So so really a long way from home and nobody's Spoke English, They spoke Sw in French, when I don't speak either.
Unfortunately, I had a translator, which was an amazing to Go experience because you have to really craft what you say. There's not room to just bla on and on, which I I kind of have a gift for doing and so you really listen deeply. So I was working with the the women 1 day and trying to think what to do, what to do what to do. And I pulled this little game out from my prison work. It's called jump in the circle. In fact for a while we played it at at Hoffman. Jump in the circle if
you're wearing black. Jump in the circle if. You have a sister. Right? Like that. And gradually, you kind of up the intimacy of it. Right? Jump into the circle. If you've ever felt worthless. Jump into the circle if you get ready for this 1 ever seen a family member of murdered. Right? So gradually, gradually, gradually. All these women. All of these 90 women, there was such a stigma around rape that they didn't know that they had all been raped. They hadn't
shared that yet. And they'd been there for 4 weeks already, and they had been expelled from their villages because of the stigma of rape, That was terribly heartbreaking to them, by the way, of course. Maybe worse than than the trauma itself, So finally, I get to the point where I say, oh, and by the way, my translator who was a man, he had to jump into and so did I? So to create safety. So nobody was feeling like, you know, there's an expert here on the outside who's judging us. Right?
So finally, I said... Jump in the circle if you've been raped and very hesitant looking around, they jumped in. They all jumped in, and what happened then was so beautiful. So beautiful. They all started to cry. They all started holding and hugging each other, rocking each other, singing to each other, the out pouring of compassion was just gorgeous. It was heart stopping. And I just stood there and I w and watched these women form a community of love and compassion with each other.
It was just amazing from that, the healing began, and the power... Their empowerment began. They're kind of a, you know, a grassroots movement, for women's empowerment in a place that really doesn't treat women very well, and it was just, wow. The power of compassion is like nothing else. It is the mother load of healing, energy on this planet is compassion No question about it. It was something else. Thank you for sharing that story Brett goosebumps and tears and and everything to me, and
I... You know, you started that by by saying just this ability to be seen and heard. Right? And then that rolls into this... Beautiful connection of compassion. And I'm curious what advice do you have for people, to see and hear themselves. Right? This this self compassion of of giving giving that to ourselves, what advice do you have? Well, I think first of all recognizing that that voice inside that so un kind. That's so self monitoring and critical to recognize it is something that's learned.
If you can see it, you're not it. Right? You are the field of awareness and it it's the... Content of your awareness. So to bring your mindfulness to that, to notice it, not to shame it or sc it or say, oh, I'm so messed up that I have that negative voice going on all the time. That critical voice going on. See if for what it is. It was developed as a way to keep us safe. You know, like, if I criticize myself for being this way or that way, then maybe I can check it before it leaks out
and I get in trouble. Right? So this is just a very old early voice that we learned and we've been practicing for decades to keep ourselves safe by not showing up. By staying small. Sometimes staying small is acting big. It isn't necessarily shrinking. You know, sometimes it's covered with
blu or whatever. But to begin to see a voice for what it is and not shame it, Or make yourself wrong about it, but recognize it just as what it is and have some compassion for all that we had to become in order to secure the connection and belonging we needed. To survive and hopefully thrive, and that is just outdated now. It doesn't make us bad it's it's just part of being human, and we have survived and we have thrived and we have connection and belonging, it starts with ourself.
To belong to herself. And, yeah. So to have some compassion for all that we had to learn instead of a shame and blame Maybe could have said that more clearly, but, yeah. See there's my dark side. You didn't say that right. You could have done that better. Everybody's judging you. It's just it's just so strongly in our neuro pathways. Right? And it's just what is. I feel so incredibly honored to be able to have had this conversation with you, and I just through hearing all of your stories. I
just... It... Strikes me the number of hearts, whether it was guiding people into this world, whether it was guiding them through their journey. It incredible the amount of love that you, 1 person has brought to this world. And I just I really wanna thank you for your honesty and your vulnerability and your love. Thank you. Liz that, that's true of Everyone who goes out, You know, you take your love out. And it ripples. You love this person who then is able to love that person who's
able to love those people. And it just... It just ripples out and out and out and out. I wanna say 1 thing in in closing. I think we're probably out of time, but there was a moment in my teacher training that that I thought I was going to quit. It was just know, it was like, oh, my gosh. I can't take this anymore. I can't take this anymore. And I I sat down in the hotel after the process. Before getting on my flight, I spent the night in hotel, and I was sitting there and I I've had...
If I don't get a sign right now, from my spiritual guide or my spiritual of I'm quitting. And then I got mad because I got quote unquote distracted of by the c of faces of students that I had encountered in my teacher training and their faces just blossom into themselves into joy and love. And and I got so mad. I I can't even focus here because all of this distraction, and I went off to dinner, and I was sitting at dinner in a house and I went... Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh.
That's the sign. It's not about me. It's about the people that are coming to the process that need to experience what I experienced and go back out into their lives and love. You know, that was it. That was it I got over my doubt about being a teacher. Well, I think that is a beautiful place to end because it's it's just a who you are. You are love, and I I just so appreciate it. Thank you, Liz. And for anybody who who thinks that that is, like, 24 7. Please
understand. We weave in and out and in and out of patterns and presence. And that not a bad thing at all. Just human, all of us. Thank you. Beautiful questions. Thanks, Linda. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Rossi. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Asking Rossi. Often teacher and founder of the Hop institute
foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of life have in themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hop institute dot org. I