You're about to hear a conversation between myself and Chris San, a fellow hoffman teacher. Our interview is really the story of his relationship with his spirit and how with each crossroads that he endured, that connection got stronger and stronger, more and more pure. At the end of our interview, he shares a poem that just came out of him as he surrendered deeply to his spirit. Thoroughly, he laid down on the floor, took a pen to a paper and boom, this poem came out of him.
So I recommend listening all the way so that you get to hear this poem because it is powerful and profound. And for any of us that are listening that are in current crossroads or times of changes or maybe on the recent other side of a cross. This interview is a beautiful reminder of how important those moments are on our larger journey. So I hope you enjoy this interview with Chris as much as I did. Welcome to Loves everyday radius. A podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute.
My name is Sharon Moore, and I'm 1 of your hosts. And on this podcast, we talked to hot graduates about how their courageous journey inward. Impacted their personal lives, but also how it impacted their community and the world at large. So tune in and listen in and hear how our graduates authentic selves, how their love, how their spirits are making a positive impact on our world today. In other words, get to know their loves everyday radius. Alright. Chris, welcome to the show. Well, thank you,
Sharon. Really nice to be here with you. Always nice to connect with you, Chris. Thank you. So Chris, let's let's start with Hoffman. Since that is our connection here. When were you a student of the process? And what was going on in your life that got you there? It was a student in? November 20 13. It was the last of the original format of the process. And since has been rejuvenate. So I've gotten 2 pictures of the process. And what what was going on in
your life? What led you to come to the process. Lots. In in 1 way and, like, nil in other way, lots of change, tremendous change. I had raised 3 children. 1 was the steps on that came into my life when he was 10, but, most closely to my 2 sons, and they had basically moved up and out on their own or we're just right in the cusp bit I had gone through some career change, recession head... I was in a very difficult place in my life
relational as well. So in all facets, except for my good physical health, I was I was really challenged very challenged. Oh, perfect for the Hoffman teacher. These are these are the kind of students we like to get? Yeah. I was. And did you hear of it through somebody who had gone through the process and you saw change in them, or how did you how did you know? Oh, this is where I need to go? This is what I need to do for myself right now. Well, it came in 2 waves. Very close
in terms of source. At 1 of our, I've been in men's group, some now 20 plus years. And 1 of the members had said, hey. I heard about this process, Hoffman process It's... And he... He almost used the tagline. It's when your series about change. And he said, here's really intense and very effective. So 1 of the other guys, I'm sure I can confidently share his name drew, horn went through the process, and he said, he came back, and he said she
gotta go. This holds all of what you hold so dear in your life. And you gotta do this. So he helped me to make it possible to go to the process. Wow, And so since you're a teacher, I'm assuming this was a very impactful week for you to be a hyphen at the process. Because I was a teacher? No. I'm just saying because you... I mean, the fact that you were teacher I'm assuming, the hoffman process was indeed impactful and... And caused the change you were hoping for? It did. It was
so impactful. And like I said, I was so ready for it, and I was so eager for change I was very open to whatever was going to be offered or suggested that we try or do or experience. It was in the end, not only during a week, but certainly, for the rest of my life, highly influential and my happiness becoming happy. Is there a moment where if you think back the process a moment, a pivotal or magical moment where... That's where 1 of these, like, memories that you have from the...
Process, or was it just kind of in general? Well, there... Yeah, there were 2 of them actually. The... But 1, maybe 3. But the first 1... Process most immediate in my recall was when we were doing some vision and whereas we do throughout the process. And then following vision is an opportunity to write and reflect on the vision that we had during our guided. Visualization. It came me in that moment sitting out there on what was our cited white
sulfur springs. Now I was on the lawn, and and I thought of my future, and what would I do? This is a big question. What do I go from here? How do livelihood and making the best use of my talents and skills. So I was in... Really involved in that question, and boom, it kay. I'm going to be a hoffman teacher. Shortly after, I called Liza, And she said, you know for the first time in 7 years, put recruit recruiting for new teachers. So put your name in and we'll we'll get back to you.
I pastor her. I called her about once a week and say, how we doing? How we doing? I got it. Yes. She's so kind. Oh my god, but she let me know No in uncertain terms. I'm tracking and you were good. And that 1 thing led to the other and voila I got into my internships, my teacher training and internships. Yeah. Wow. So you had the vision of becoming a teacher while you were a student in the process. Yes. I was doing related work. I was doing leadership development. We were...
Taking, a Ct model of coaching and bringing it into corporate governmental agencies. I was doing some work with the Federal Reserve bank out of Kansas City and they're Denver and other locations, the the branches and other locations with national center for Atmospheric research, we... We're doing quite a bit of work with the ag department at the University of Nebraska Lincoln. Another commercial, xi
corporation, and other for profit organization. So I was I was accustomed to training, teaching, coaching, I intimate that I was a coach through Ct I was certified through Ct. I had all this this background, but boy. Watching these hoffman teachers and experiencing that was a whole new level of theft that I was drawn to. A quick aside is I was just in complete admiration at how this team of 5 people could pull off this week of activity in such structure and clarity.
Having done this similar kind of work, as I said, but their effectiveness was incredible. I had to I had such a similar experience where it's like, I had a moment where I looked at them just with, like, heart opening gratitude. That they invest so much in my experience being there that week, and it is... It now that I've been a teacher. It's just a beautiful coming together of humans who want to work with people, but also the production level is really fantastic.
Yes. That's what I'm talking about that. That combination of the tender openness, firm and guiding and in clarity and the production side was almost my. God, I couldn't believe. The fact that they're there and they're committed for 7 days. It just was stunning to me. I know. Hoffman teachers are cool people. Okay. So you said there's 3 moments. So that's 1 of. What are the other 2? Well, the other 2 were really around understanding my father's?
Childhood. And a a away in a depth and a, a compassionate manner that I never saw before I had a lot of resentment toward my father, but Also a lot of love I've constantly struggled in between, but I love this man. Do I reject this man and back him Finally, I could see him as a 12 year old child and understand what he was facing. His family system, and all of that, there's the times he was born in 19 31. And understanding all of that, I had this moment of tender ness. Put my father,
compassion that I never had experienced before. And then the second 1 came with my mother where I'd struggled to forgive forgive you did the... Did so much and went to that experience to up the road from white myself or Springs. And I remember how simple it was to release through forgiveness. You know I was like, oh, of course. It it was 1 was just, how easy this is. Or you could say
it's magical, but certainly transformational. I accepted my mother, for being a human on her own path separate from mine that I could then stand back and evaluate and meet with love. Instead of judge and can die or reject or get confused. I just said, oh, here's this woman. Here's me. I can love her I can be separate from those patterns I learned from her and understand her. That was so simple. So simple. Did you have the luxury of coming back to your life where or they
still alive? They were oh my god. And that that would point in the direction of, like, how did this endure quick vi of both instances with my father and my mother where I went real time with my forgiveness. Directly with the with my father, I called him at Joseph Sen is that, you know, he's first generation sicilian both parents from Sicily and I spoke a italian in home. And so he was recently kept the car quote the vest with just about everything.
And I called them and I said dad, I've been at a retreat to And I've been doing some thinking about our relationship, and I could hear you out long paul Was like, okay. And I said, I have something I want to read to you. In the past, I had met with him So generous to meet with me as therapist and clear some of the air on on things that... You know, grievances I had to him. So I'm Imagine he's thinking Okay.
Here we go again. Right? I read him the letter that I wrote the process, continued to write after. His long pause. He says I want you do me a favor. I said, yes, that. I wasn't. He's, I want you to read my eu. Okay. I'll do that in what, like, 15 years later he died. And I read... I did his eu at his life celebration event we held. That was really special. Really beautiful. So when he responded that way, what was it like for you? Connection, love, relief.
In in such a beautiful way. Like, okay Finally, You know, there's all this sort of maneuvering ring and guessing and withholding or avoiding or, you know, trying to be close and all of the kind of mach imaginations that can come in a lifelong relationship and it became simple in that moment for both of us. How luxurious and lucky that you had the... Opportunity to close that and still have 15 years together. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That endured.
And that as I mentioned, it was another experience similar with my mother, where I had written the letter, I had it on this day on my car. Is some 2 weeks, maybe 3 weeks after the process. I'm thinking I've got... I need to call mom and read her this letter. I've gone to a doctor's appointment come out and just as I'm about to get in the car. I looked down on the ground. There's a penny heads up on the paid it. That's
sounds there's a good luck. You know, It's look at my pocket at my car, my phone's on the seat and it's ringing, you know, beat the calls for mom. And there's the letter. I go, okay. It's go time. So she got on and made this similar introduction, mom. You know, I bunch to a retreat. Did love thinking about our relationship, and I have something I want to read you and I get your, you know, audible gu, like, oh, you know, it's like,
most my father anticipating the worst. I'm, you know, get the admin nominations or whatever. I started reading it to her and Was about 3 sentences in and she couldn't rest refrain her emotions, she was so related. If I could see her, I know I could see the expression in their eyes and but I had that moment of great release. Tension between the 2 of us and I too, I've broken its tears. And the 5 minutes later, I've completed reading her the letter, and she just kept saying, thank you. Thank
you. Thank you. And she said, well you will you send me a copy and, you know, absolutely did that. I did that for both my parents. That was life changing. Both those instances was life changing and really, I've done all the work for that, all the preparation to create that kind of change. By the process. I have to admit I'm a little teary over here. It's amazing being teachers, you and I are are hoffman teachers and... This never is the same story. It never gets old.
It always goes to such a deep level to be in the presence of somebody who closed this loop and then had... I don't know how many years it doesn't matter. Left to be in deep profound connection with their parents in our bodies in this lifetime. Like you said, it's a relief. The way you painted it is so relatable of Do I love him? Do I reject him, do I all that extra energy and suddenly, poof it's gone and we're just in connection with these really important people on our lives?
It moves me the tears. Well said. That's as simple as it gets, and as it should be. With compassion and love. Yeah. Thank you. I'm curious if you have grown grown kids. Have they gone through the process? Have you been on the receiving end of this? I've gently nudge the other son that... You should drive this in. He's open to it. He says, you know, someday day in his life, he's gonna probably do it. I've been lifelong friends with Drew morning. We always know him was Andy before he became
a teacher. This knew, Andy when he was 4 years old. So we go back a long way. My son's now 27. He goes, well, Guess I don't have a choice because of you and Andy, you know, it was tongue and cheek. But, yeah. He said that influence he'll go, but actually I think. Yeah. And in due time, everybody's on their own path.
I think about how I was 40 when I went, and and I don't think I was ready any earlier as much as I would have... I don't wish, but I see sometimes younger folks coming through the process and in a way they want to fast forward, some of the learning that happens by just being around in life in our twenties and in our thirties. And so I I think everybody's on their own schedule, and I think it's perfectly, you know, it's okay for him to come later on in life too. Louie
yeah. No. No pressure. You know. That's what not. To do. I've learned that that... Yeah. No pressure son if you're listening. Yes. Exactly. We're good. Now you mentioned something when you... Before you even came to the process, you had already been in leadership and in coaching and... In training. And obviously, there's a party that likes to work with people, whether it be the Hoffman teacher or beforehand. Can you tell me a little bit about what was your journey 4 you even got to Hoffman.
Before, I did a midlife shift. I was 38 years old and decided this, I can't do this. I was in commercial real estate on, consulting and and advising and that landscape itself, so nothing, but promise and continued financial growth and opportunity. I was highly qualified and was a certified appraiser in 9 states. I would... I had professional credentialing. I was senior member of the American Society of appraiser. I was I had a master's degree valuation scientist that's highly qualified,
but I wasn't happy. And I decided I need to change. I need to do something else. And I knew from my very first job out of college that it had to do with human services and really providing growth opportunities, mental health, coaching, whatever it might be. That calling never left me. I was always in coach with myself about getting back getting back And I tried to assert that through management and providing, you know, humane management systems and advanced management systems in our company,
but it it wasn't enough. So I found this doctor program at the Fielding Institute and decided to go for it, and I went for a doctor degree in human and organization systems. It was fantastic. And during that time that I was doing that, I also certified to administer certain myers spreads. And I've trained in mediation, and I completed my certification with the what's now called the coa collective training is institute back. I was coaches training as to your Ct.
And I completed that coaching certification. And then a couple of years after graduating, I met up with some folks, who were launching this new offering into the corporate field. The coaching was emerging, and we we're able to create a leadership development program based on coaching skills and coaches using this to develop other and support others. And it was wonderful. We formed a partnership, to 3 of us and did a lot of high level work with some high level
folks, and it was great. For a while, and then that wasn't enough. I do That must be more. Well right I'm gonna go into too much of the detail of it all, but long and short of it was, I later became a sole entrepreneur facing the recession in 2008. Oh, it was like an egg drop on the floor. All of a sudden it just ain't happening. Light became very very difficult. I had mentioned that my son said, ema from our care, it were moving out on their own.
I was alone, very alone. No relationship. I had ended a marriage, my second marriage and was very frustrated. Can know very down Very done. It's a very little opportunity, and then the along comes the halt process. And my life shifted. Do you feel like this kind of dark? Phase of being alone and frustrated and down? Did it provide space for some clarity. I mean, here's what I hear is you had this successful career that had all the things that
people might think would make you happy. This trajectory of growth, this success, all these certifications, all these qualifications, more and more more and more and more more more, and it wasn't enough, and you had the courage to leave. Then you went and did something else, Okay a human services. I did this, and I was in leadership development, but still something in you. Something kept saying, This isn't enough. This isn't enough. There's something else like knocking on the door for you.
And then boom this crisis. Absolutely yeah the crisis. It's out I'm firm believer and we have these pre moments for change in our life. And that the moments, like you said, it could come like a knock knock you know, it might be knock knock knock. And then if we pay attention, and we're responsive to those and sometimes we can get well ahead of. So we don't been here the knock knock. But that we move in a direction of our inclination, and and we don't need those pre
events to awaken us. But sometimes those... If we keep ignoring them long enough, was pre events become like a 2 by 4 on the side of the head. You know, our whack on the side of Add, done the 2 by 4 and then really more catastrophic things happen. Health wise, financially. And I think I was so overdue that I was getting the whack on the side of the head, 2 by 4, all of that waking me up in saint, Chris, you have to change. And pay attention to this part of you that is calling to you. Listen.
There's messages here that you're ignoring or convoluted or not trusting. Listen. Understand. And that's what the process helped me to do so well, was to find ways more deeply into that part of myself. I'd been doing a pretty good job of it before I started awakening to it, The the yi ching, for example, that the ancient Chinese oracle really helped me to understand it. To frame my experiences in ways that were very human and spiritual at the same time. So I didn't simply dismiss whatever.
I had a framework for understanding them. Also met a wonderful medium who was a very close friend and she helped me tremendously. And a lifelong medi I've been meditating since I 18. In those things is what helped me to become clearer, clearer and more aligned and more aligned with do I truly am. And so I can say now, firmly on my path, and I don't get those, knock not a whack on the side that had as much, but the pre events still comp. It's part of being human.
Right? It's a So if I'm hearing you correctly, there was a phase in life where you weren't as connected. So it kind of was the knock and then it progressed. The 2 by 4 and then rest of the w. But now because of all the work you've done, starting from when you were 18 mind you, you've been committed to this path for a long time, the At this point, obviously, our soul, our spirit keeps talking to us, but you have managed to find a way to lift into long before it gets to the 2 by 4 and the whack
on the head. Did... Is that correct? What I heard? That's right. Yes. And to have more dimension in the way that I connect to it. Listening closely to my spirit. The spirit has such a resonance, but it's at a different frequency than our rational logical minds and even are compassionate hearts are often att to. And so we miss it. It's in stillness. Stillness could happen. When we're walking or around
an airplane or whatever it might be. But if we create those moments of stillness, and when connect to the wisdom flows. And that's what I've been able to do and now get the pull answer at once. Like, okay. And what I do now and how do I strategize? I said, not that... It doesn't get that complicated. It's much more pure. And being able to resonate with that frequency and speak and have a dialogue with that spirit within us that's connected to the greater divine source and connecting with that,
that's what I've been learning to do. And I do it through meditation. I do it through yoga. I just did it when I was out jogging. I do it now through writing and allowing my writing to be led by that frequency. Rather than sit down. Okay. I'm gonna plot this all I'm and outline this. The book's gonna be like this. I tried that. Black on santa, not working, I published 2 scholar articles and peer reviewed journals and blah blah blah. But that ain't this, this is much different. Much different.
Sounds a little like the intellect snuck its way in there. So what what is this? Would tell me more about this thing that you're writing right now? On writing a book, the title of it begins with the word longing that each of us has within us, a call, that is constant. Will never go away. We'll never be solved for in this lifetime. And that our responsibility is to connect to that longing. And sometimes we feel it as mel common, or a wish, wish.
A target and a pull of loneliness, that kind of feeling that seems to come from a void within ourself, and we often respond to it or react to it with solutions. I'll solve for that, I'll go have a beer, or I'll get a new relationship, or I'll go by that house. That's perfect, and we'll be on the lake front and bubba, and it's all gonna do it. And we keep trying to solve for it instead of being with it and embracing that this can never be solved.
This is our condition. Our human condition is 1 of calling and responding, calling and responding to that. And not trying to solve or make it go away because as I said, it never will. Touching into that longing can be our source of inner leadership, and I believe that's our spirit calling to us in conjunction with our soul Our souls on a path, we att to our soul by att to our longing. Is we're here to complete something. Might be more than 1 things.
Each of us has a purpose, many of us have missions, we are here to complete either of both of those. And it's only by att to what's going on at that deeper level, pay attention to your longing. It's even painful sometimes. But a att to the pain is important. Pain is wonderful, and I don't mean to be like, you know, say this mas has kinda, let's suffer through life, but pain is a reminder that we are the of our suffering, and that suffering has connection to our longing and it's calling us
inward. And that you and I were talking about, you know, when you don't pay attention to that, you get the little knock knock, then you get eventually the whack of the side of hat or the bigger things that come, that's the pain accent. We have these dark out of the souls won't forget ourself, that's not a att to the pain. Once we started tuning to the pain, then the pain leads us to where we need to heal. And that's the call of the soul. So I thought I've learned it. To be.
So rather than try to respond with a solution, which might mean to stop feeling it to distract or whatever it might mean rather than doing that, or even give it meaning, like, oh, this is painful. I don't wanna feel this. I'm gonna go feel... Rather than doing that, we respond. So can you give me an example? Because it sounded like this longing is our window into something. And if we learn to There it is again. I'm gonna respond there it is again. I'm gonna respond. What does a response look
like? Wow, that's a great question. And and... I'll just start by answering it sort of a general sense that each of us has our own way. Right? Each of us has our own pain felt uniquely. It's often ci substantial, you know, look back to childhood or we look back to a catastrophe or something that occurred in our life of failed relationship. And so we can tie it to sources or causes, but it's uniquely crafted. It has been tailored. Those experiences have been tailored.
For the kind of pain we need to attend to what needs to heal within us. You know, so comes to become more and more complete. If I attend to that unique pain within me, then I can heal. And then there might be another 1 that comes. But the way in can be, like, trying to give you an example. I have had this opportunity to learn to trust. I really think trust is 1 of my main purposes in this lifetime is to learn to trust and be trusted.
And that can extend to all kinds of avenues of life, most fundamentally, it's to trust my spirit. And I need to trust my spirit. So I had had my trust violated early on in childhood, and I was violated deeply around trust. So I learned to be suspicious, cautious secretive and avoid anything that had to do with having to trust or trusted. I was I would, you know, learn to be hyper attentive at 12 years old and control my environment or attempt to. And yet, that wasn't enough. That was good to get
through and survive. But then to keep doing that, of course, doesn't pay well. Doesn't work well. Doesn't pay off for us and speaking for myself as I age, it has an obsolescence to it. So the more that I understand that, oh, what's this about? I have this unique pain that we repeats itself in my relationship and it repeats itself in my connection to myself and my spirit.
Oh, what is this under? It has to deal with t I had my trust violated as a child that called me into healing, at a deep deep level, that I think super seated me being human in this form, I really think I'd had to do with my soul, getting my attention to say we need to really learn this thing called trust. And I got to do it. I'm getting to do it in this lifetime. It's almost like your soul came in to this life,
knowing it needed to learn this lesson. And then these circumstances happen to force you to learn the lesson. And it sounds like this thing you painted of, like, okay, I protected myself and did all this that was the solution, which worked for a minute or, you know, metaphorically speaking until it didn't work. And now what you're doing is, you're responding. Oh, is this what it looks like to trust let me respond in this way. Is this what
it looks like? Is this what it feels like and slowly slowly next thing you know, you have a relationship that has deep trust or you are being trusted in your work or etcetera, etcetera. Did I did I get that? Correctly? Yes. Perfect. Thank you, S. Yeah. Well, it's very relatable because, you know, it's it's interesting because in a way, you're you're re educating us to what our semantics, what what is the emotion that
we have behind the word longing. And in a way, you're challenging us to look at it differently and go into it because this is the doorway. Don't associate longing as a negative thing. When you first said Lonnie. I was, oh you kind of have now gotten me kind of curious Like, well, whoa, wow. That's exciting. I should pay attention because it seems to me through this longing, you got to the core core core core journey. For you in this life, which is around trust and being trusted?
Yes. You summarized it so well. And and and that was my first... Reaction to the word longing, it was coming to me in the writing. And I said well, isn't this, like problematic, you know, we're end blown alert. Our mel colleague or this it doesn't mean we're depressed or so we're always longing, no. It's not. To reject it is the opposite of surrendering the spirit. That is surrendering the spirit and saying, part of being human is Eye long.
Eye long for something. And it's like, you know, when you go on a an adventure, maybe exploring a new country or going on hike or or wherever at my road trip. And you're that longing. I'm gonna find a place. Like did you get the ideas in your in your mind, and you start to... And then you move in that direction, and you go there and you go oh, you head that. Now I gotta find another place. And it gets to be cool because it's and and exciting and and ent and enrolling.
That's what I'm talking about. The life can be like that. And there's always that bit of little bit of tug. They're that longing or sometimes just more than a little bit. It's just a big yank. That says, here, here, look here, enjoy this. Go for it and enjoy it. Explore it. And when you say it comes to me through the writing, tell me what you mean when you say that? Well, the rational mind of the intellect jumps ahead and says, oh, here's what this... Gonna be
about. Let's do a research in Boom Boom. I had this. I was gonna write this book, and I had it all figured out. It was gonna be around... It's the human developmental sequence of stages of development, and the states that we encounter spiritually to ascend those levels of development. And so it's there states and stages. We have moments of change got awakening or a crisis or something that happens or love in a relationship because Pine is a beautiful
state of being. I wanna cultivate more of that my life, The more and more that we practice those states, the more and more we secure our movement into higher stages of consciousness. I figured I'd write this out in a scholar manner Doing my research in it, it was became very hard. Very difficult. Until I started yielding to... Alright. I don't know shit. And it was during Covid. Perfect. I'm not going anywhere 1 night, I just took a tablet of paper and a pen. I laid down on
my floor. Gotta away from the computer, gotta away from all the research post and just laid there and I go, okay. What? I was a little bit, you know, on dig it. Grab my pen just let it sit there until it started moving, and then it started writing. It seemed like Nonsense since at first, I started riding the poem, and I wrote this poem out. And then I said, oh, Well, what? And it started to make sense. It's kinda cool. Write that, Paul. And I
said what else could I write? And then I started writing more. And it started blowing, and I said. Okay. That was quan filled up like nearly a tablet of paper. And then I said, I'm Do this gun. It was 1 of those states. Right? I had a moment, a state like that. And it just kept calming. And coming and coming, Some is nonsense if I read it in,
you know, logical, rational mind. The more than I did it, the more than I started seeing a symmetry or and a revelation in the writing that I could then make it palatable and understandable for the rational mind. So I didn't try to force that too much, but just be open to what was evolving. And trusting that, trust. Right? Trust. This is total trust. Like, pan on a download of paper, and let's see. And my trust began escalating, becoming more and more powerful and stable, and
then I've... Now I'm having more and more fun with it. On Can I read you the poem that I wrote? Yes. So here's what first came. It is time. You know it I know it? Wide delay. Just this, fear, shame, rage, I mobility, condemnation, self destruction, Don't dance with these characters. They're not worthy of your god within. See them, know them. Welcome them into your house there to find peace.
Un address them, remove their mask to become naked, exposed, freed from deception and ser you to the inability of empathy, compassion, forgiveness and love of you, as will your true nature surrender to an unseen process. And and it did. Red yes. And it continues. This is a perfect example of, how to do what you're calling longing. Right? There was a party that long to tell the story that long to talk about the states and the spirituality, And then when you finally leaned in and said
okay. Kind of dealing like, what is it? Boom this poem comes out. That was a call and you responding? That was you trusting. And now again, another call and you're responding. And again another call you're responding. I don't know how many chapters you now have, but this is the expression of this longing that is expressed through a calling and a response, a calling and a response, a calling and a response. That's really beautiful. Yeah. Thanks, Ron. That's wonderful.
I I appreciate that. The other thing I see in your journey is your... Strengthening and clarifying your connection to spirit. It started when you were 18, and then you had little mini moments when you had the courage to leave the job that had all the money and all the bells and whistles and trust something else and go to school again, I don't know how old you were but getting a Phd and all the coaching and the myers
and all that stuff 1 more time. And then starting something else, but then it's still wasn't enough. Okay. Another moment where spirits was talking to you and you listen. And so on and so forth and here, you can see if I saw a graph. You can just see how that channel just got pure and strong and clean and here you are with a clearly much stronger connection to your own spirit. Well said, Thank you for that great summary. Thank you. Yeah. That's that's it. That's the
path. You know, staying on that path. Not looking for, like, the outside for answers, other people, events, finances, food or what all that is important part of life. Asked. That's not where the answers are. Those are all just support for getting our answers. The answers are inside that we hold the wisdom. We hold the wisdom. When we listen and we know how to listen. The wisdom that's inherent all of us, if it all came forward at once, it would overwhelm us, We would not be able to
to manage it. There is so much depth to each 1 of us. That's why it comes in trickle or sometimes flows and to get it all at once would be completely overwhelming me. Beautiful way to close and and I will say that for anybody listening who has had or is in these crossroads, let this be an inspiration. These crossroads are all feeding into something. They're are all part of the journey. You know, in Chris moment, he's in this moment where A, now it makes sense, but not all
of us have gotten there. So may this be a kind of comforting message to us of, okay. Continue on this path. I'm on my path. This is the right path of listening. Well, Chris, thank you. What what an inspiration? And I know we just kinda touched the surface here. But but what an inspiration and, obviously, this book sounds fascinating, whenever it's complete And let's not get attached to that. Right? We're not attached to that outcome. That's right. Yeah. That's right. It it will
it will be when it is. So We'll get it. We'll get it done. Yes. Right. But beautiful reframe for all of us in beautiful way virus by sharing your journey in your crossroads and. How spirit has always been there and when and how it showed up. So thank you, Chris. Well, thank you. Has been a never ties that express gratitude attitude for... For your clarity, and I also just wanna express once again, my gratitude for your compassion. And the safety, and I so trust you. It's been wonderful.
Thank you. No. Let chris. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Grass, and Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Ras Rossi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hop institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hop institute dot org.