If you ever been involved with something where you know it so well, You know it so deeply. It's in your bones. That's what I was feeling when Andy Mil, and I sat down for our conversation. He's been in this work. He knows the process so deeply the ins and outs. He new bob for years, trained with him. And so I hope you enjoy this episode as Andy reflects on his life reflects on his life teaching, the Hoffman process, such good stuff here, please enjoy. Welcome to Loves everyday radius.
Podcast brought to you about the Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horn. And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates of the process. And have a conversation with them about how their work in the process is informing their life outside of the process how their spirit and how their love are living in the world around them, their everyday radius. Andy Mil, great to have you on the podcast today. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Where are you talking to me from?
I am speaking to you from A, Mexico, which is a little village on the North shore of the largest lake in Mexico, about an hour from Downtown Guadalajara, which is the second largest city in Mexico, How did you get there? Well, I lived in Petal for a long time, and then 4 years ago, my wife and I visited here and loved it. And decided we would go on an adventure since we're in our 7 and, maybe It's the last adventure. We wanted it to be a good 1. So we moved down here. Fantastic.
Speaking of adventures, you've been a Hoffman process. Teacher since January of 19 91, 31 and a half years. Is that right? That's correct, and it's been quite an adventure. In many ways. And when you were living in Petal, and you heard about the process, you trained with Bob. Was Bob in your process as a teacher? He was. I wasn't living in Petal at that time, but, Bob was in my process as a teacher.
And given my patterns, I was yelling at him within an hour of the process starting where Pun he pointed some things out to me, in his unique style, and I settled down and got the work. Bob did have that unique way of confronting with love. Sydney, how would you describe his style? 1 1 word I would use is fearless. Fearless and totally committed to helping people get free of their their patterning. Well, Andy, how many processes, have you taught over those 31 and a half years. Do you know?
It's in the the low 2 hundreds, I think. I'm not sure at this point. What's it like to be a hoffman teacher incredibly general question, but what is it like? The first word that comes up for me, it's it's actually a privilege and an honor to be able to stand with support, guide our students who are baking a tremendous commitment in time, money, energy to to change. Since our our tagline is
when you're serious about change. So, you know, I know that when they get to the process, they have made a serious commitment in preparing, and I'm gonna do everything I can to support them in getting at least, what they think they wanna have the process. And the reason I say that is because most of the time find that people get more than they they think they're gonna get more than they expect and more that they even know they want.
I'm wanna ask a question about that because I agree it does seem like they get more than they even thought that they could even put into their consciousness. Why do you think that is? That's a really interesting question, You. The the process for me is and has always been a combination of, I'll say science and I'm not sure which word to use magic or mystic. It is grounded in science, which has been confirmed over the what 55 years since we... Since it started.
But the other part is is hard to explain how the, the structure of the process supports things that I cannot understand at times. And also that I as a teacher sometimes can show up in a way that is not something I've thought about rationally or I'm planning or strat. It's just the... It the magic of the moment that allows openings for the students and breakthroughs. And dare I say, and I use this word a little bit cautiously. Dare I say miracles.
I'm thinking of 1 student who came in a young man who was about 28, came in tattooed, spiky red hair, I'm depressed. That's who I am. And at some point in the process, that identity that false identity that falls self just dropped off and an energy and a light came through him that persists because even after the process, he's continued
to do coaching with me. I think it's about a year and a half now, and that was totally unpredictable to me in meeting him and supporting him the first couple of days of the process. So to me, that's a miracle. That's pretty cool. You got your trio of M's magic, mystic, and miracles. Wow. Miracles. Yeah. But meanwhile, it's all grounded in science. And psychological theory. That part that's part. It's really clear. It's the spirit... The spiritual aspect that that to me is the mystery.
The magic and produces miracles. And spiritual. I I don't even know what that is. I say the word and you know, where does it come from? What's the connection? All I know is it exists. I have seen it over and over again? It was something I was very step about when I when I did the process as a student, given my family patterns or are around spirituality.
And, you know, to me, the the evidence is inexplicable, but real, very real in terms of the effects on people and impact Andy do you mention your family childhood patterns around spirituality, take us to your childhood and you growing up? Where did you grow up? What did you learn? What was unique to your childhood?
So I was born in in New York City, and my family lived outside of New York City in a a suburban community, lived there till I was 8 and then my father decided to move the family down to Puerto Rico to open up a factory because the the tax lawyers would beneficial back then. So I went to the rest... I went to grammar School, Junior high in high school in Puerto Rico, graduated in 19 66, and then went to Tu lane City in Orleans, and got my Ba in 19 70 in English literature psychology.
For a few years after that, I was dealing with the draft, and then then started law school in 19 72, but my family my pattern at that time was not to complete things. So I left and went into business with somebody I met. We, we had an accelerated learning and reading program there. So I was in the education business for about 4 years and that started to get successful, which triggered some more of my patterns around sa success.
So I just took off and headed out to California in 19 79, on a 3 week trip that turned into a 6 month trip. And then went back to New Orleans backed up my staff and headed out west, and I was mostly out west. Ever since then. When did you begin working at Hoffman. I know you were in the enrollment office for years. Well, I was a teacher for a long time. And then there were some changes in the enrollment department, and there there was a need for enrollment counselor. So I said, well, let me
let me try this. And liza was open to it, and I came in and at that time, that was 2012. There were just 3 of us in the enrollment on the enrollment team. And we've worked pretty hard and we had a lot of fun and and it was great being in the office and supporting people who were interested in learning about the process. Helping them if they wanted to enroll, helping them prepare, and then also at times getting back into, you know, getting into teaching people that I'd enrolled.
So that was a fun for a couple of years, but I I don't feel like I'm in the office types a ninth of 5 was not what I love. When I had a chance to teach more when there was a need for me to teach more, I definitely took it, and was full time for a few years, and then the last few years, since I turned, I guess, 70, I've been reducing my teaching load. What did being a teacher for so many years? And then in the enrollment office, how did that change your vantage point on on the process?
I don't know that it did except that I just had a different relationship with the students because III knew a little bit more about how they got to the process. And what it took for them to get to the process. So that might have contributed to holding the students with even more
honor and respect, than I had before. But at since the beginning, since the beginning of my teaching, it was always students first to know, the fact that they they were, like I said earlier, committing so much time energy money, etcetera to doing the work I was there to support them to do it to get the most out of it. And how have you seen
Hoffman change over the years? You've been So intimately involved since 19 91 and as a nonprofit and as a small organization, especially in the last 10 years, it's grown so much. What have you noticed? Well, that's a fascinating journey to consider because when I became... When I started training, I think there were 6 trees. And Bob was actually preparing to retire at that time. So I got the joy and terror of training with him.
It was a very small organization processes were between 10 and 15 students for the most part. Then a few years later, they started to go over 20, and then we we started training more teachers. We became a non nonprofit. And I believe 19 98 or so. And then the... Like you say the enrollments really explode in the last 10 years to where process is At White sulfur Springs before it burned down. We're we're full at 40 with a waitlist list. And now at our new center, we're full at 32 with a 6
month wait list. And as far as number of teachers what we're over 30 now or something. It's gonna be over 30 teachers next year. So the organization really changed from a a small, I'd say internet group where I talk with the same people very, very often. In fact, 1 of the things in the beginning, there were there are usually 3 teacher teams and it was 1 man and 2 women, because most the teachers were women. So I learned a lot in those first few years
sitting around the Dining room table. I learned a lot about scarves and choose and accessories from the female teachings. Good exposure, good education, more more than I wanted to know, considering we spent... We have 21 meals together. It is quite a thing to break bread with your colleagues as often as we do as you mentioned 21 meals together. How has that journey been for you in the colleague world of being a teacher. Well, for the
most part, it is... It's wonderful that we're all aligned with doing work that that's important to us that we believe in that's contributing to a, hopefully contributing to a better world. You know, Bob's mission was peace on Earth 1 person at a time. And so the impact that the process could have. But I don't say, that we the teachers do that but the process has on the world is is what holds us sec all aligned. And yet there are, you know, personnel personalities
is involved sometimes. So, this is not personal to any of my colleagues who I love, but by the end of the week, I'm really looking forward to some quiet time. I think that's my introvert side that comes out by the end of the week. I was thinking that it most of us are extra, a few are introverts, but for introverts, it must be a little more challenging given there's so much output in interaction with other people.
Yes. And 1 of the things I realized since I became a teacher is that I have patterns of being an ex and that as I release those and I've gotten older, I become more introverted, and I still have the skills of an extra extra in terms of, you know, what I needed to teach and to to participate. But as I said earlier, Drew, but by the end of the week, I'm really looking forward to quiet. I love that you're you're digging into inter version and extra version because
when you say patterns of an extra... Will you say a bit more about that? Yeah. You had asked me about growing up. And in my family, there was a a very strong external orientation, social orientation, image orientation. You know, the the expression that I guess, says it pretty su is when a family. When anyone was gonna take a picture was smile for the camera? It's like, what if I didn't feel like it. But I didn't feel like I had a choice back then because I have to
fit into my family. I'm and below and loved. So in order to be loved and accepted and belong and fit in, I have the smile for the cameras. So I look at pictures of myself as a kid, and there's the blank eating green on my face. That's pretty consistent through the years. And I don't think it it always reflected my essence by off my authentic self. So I've had I've had to learn that balance between the the pleasure of interacting with others and being social.
And being out there and the balance of just needing time to to just be with myself and and be looking inward. And Andy, you you mentioned that although you are introverted, you do have extroverted skills And so I think it's just interesting for listeners to consider that while we might be good at 1 of these, it can also not be in alignment with our essence and our true nature. Right. It's really important to piggyback on that and say that you don't learn the skill when you break the pattern.
Patterns are compulsive automatic. And once you break the the need to act out the pattern, the emotional physical connection to the pattern, you still have the skill and you can use the pattern, rather than have the pattern use you. Oh say that again, Andy. Well I'll give you... No. I'll give you a specific example in terms of being a teacher, and I share this with my students very often
during the week sometime. I have a pattern of hyper vigilance of looking around, make sure everything's, you know, what's going on. Is it's safe people taken care of. So that's a wonderful skill for me to use when I'm teaching the process. To be aware what's going on in the room, What what what do you need? But is they... What do they need? How do I make sure they're safe, you know, what patterns are showing up? And how do I address that? So I use that skill during the week.
When I go home, it's like I retract antenna from my head. So I can just relax and be with my wife and people I care about and not be always look it around and and having to to look for danger and point that patterns? The conscious choice to use a pattern in service of the situation, whatever it calls for is a kind of presence and a kind of choice as opposed to the pattern emerging compulsive automatically that hyper vigilance showing up when you don't, wanted to show up.
Right. And and very often what I hear is that patterns that help people and I'm gonna generalize a little bit here and say, especially men be the patterns that help men be successful in business do not serve them and being successful in an intimate relationship. Do you have examples of that in your own life? Because Andy, I think it's important to understand, can you share a little bit about the work you and Joe Nina have done and this chapter in your life more recently,
which has really been about intimate partnership. You mentioned Joan and nina and Joan in is my wife, showing in a cuff. We initially met about 32 years ago, and we kinda saw each other in passing for 20 years before I guess you could say the timing is right. She might say, I grew up. But we did not consider each other potential partners for 20 years, and then something... The timing
was right. And we got together. I was what 6 was 63, and we fell in love and we had a couple of years where we had to deal with some patterns on both sides, what I'd call family Karma. And then we we got married. That was in 2014. And we continue to to see relationship as both a growth path and a spiritual path. And it's not always easy because frankly, she's smarter in me in a lot of ways. And I don't always like that.
So Well, I just thinking the accountability of partnership is so much about where the... A, rubber meets the road, isn't it? Yes. And she she holds me to an accountability that sometimes, my dog side is not thrilled about. You mentioned dark side, Andy and story goes that you actually have named your dark side. Yes. Yes. My dog side's name is Spike. And, occasionally, in fact, 2 weeks ago when I was teaching,
I got to do the... Lead the piece where we draw the dark side, and I got the draw spike, and he's just just as spiky as always on paper. You know, we're human. We all are born into a common humanity where we learn patterns And as we described in the process, the dark side is the energy system of all the patterns that takes us back to the past, it doesn't change or learn or grow. And we have to be vigilant about it. I don't mean obsessed, but still aware. We
have to be aware and present. You use that word earlier and accountable. For when I'm going on automatic for when I'm I'm I'm acting out an obsolete identity. That's when Joe Nina is very present to point that out, and I have to surrender, and that reads... Well, I don't have to, but it works out thing things turn out a lot better when I surrender and listen, and I'm willing to recognize that, oh, yes. You're right, dear. I, I was being defensive or I was being argument.
Because spike spikes very legal. So he likes to build a case. Be be a little self. Righteous. I know my... If if there's any of my students listening, they can't imagine me being like that in at any point. But my colleagues though. You know, and you... Your humor has always been a part of the work that you engage with. In your student work and in front of the classroom, just tell me a little bit about how humor plays a role in your life. The jokes or the prank or the the the guy who's cracking
funny things that make... I don't know. Whenever I'm teaching with you, I always feel like I'm giggling at things you say and do. It's it's quite fun. Well my hope is that it it's balanced enough so that the points. The serious points that I'm trying to make come through. But I think for me, personally, it is a balance to certain patterns of
possibly over seriousness. That was my mother and kind of fatal and despair, which is both by parents, And my intention has been especially in the last 13 years since I've been with Joe and nina is not to use humor to deflect or to minimize or to avoid, but to actually contribute to a situation. And I'm not always successful with that, and she points it out. But. I just wanna say she points to that lovingly most of the time. I wanna shift gears a little bit and share that. It wasn't...
Until just recently maybe a year or so ago that I realized, you wrote a a part of the hoffman process, and it's called I am we are, and it's at the very end the very last piece we do, and I wanna just share a personal anecdote here in my process all week long as a former therapist, I could not get over how all the things I just talked about in my sessions, were actually experiences in the process.
Any idea that I just bat around with my patients was actually an embodied cellular journey in the process.
And I felt that throughout the week, and I felt it so fully in that last experience because we could share about leaving and goodbye and whatever that's like, notice what you're feeling, say goodbye to your classmates Our work is complete here and yet what you created on that last day in that last session, is such a a physical example of what students are experiencing that every time I lead it or am witnessing it.
I'm just struck by how wonderful and powerful it is that they are embody the experience of ending their week. Tell me a little bit about it how you got in a place that you wrote this beautiful piece? Wow. Well, first of all, thank you for telling me how it impacted you. I never know what what the impact of what we do is in... Of a lot of the specifics and, you know, that piece is kind of close to my heart. So I appreciate that true.
So I think it was about 19 97, and I was married to someone else at the time, and she was also working for the hoffman stood as a registrar. So she'd come up the first day in the last day. And she came to a process and at the end, and we went home. And we were talking about it. She said, you know, there was something about this group that that felt... And they felt kinda of sticky with each other. And it looked like it didn't... There was something off about it.
And we talked about it. And the next process I was teaching is wisconsin in. And we got towards the end, and I asked 1 of the other teachers, asked both the other teachers, I said, Can I try something at the end just to just to see how it works? They said, well, what is I? It... It's basically something around in ind to leave the prop assess, but also feeling connected to the group and the group support. So I I improvise this thing and I ended the, you know, with this I am, we are.
Which felt like a good way of stating it. And as you said embody it, the energy of I am and we are and and letting the group feel that. And the other teacher said great write it up. So I wrote it up, and then, County stock helped edit it a teacher at the time. And we... I guess they put it in
process. It's been there ever since. That it just It just feels like a way of balancing that individual energy and the amazing group energy that's created every week that to me is 1 of the surprises of the process for most people. And an important distinction, I imagine that as they leave 1 another and leave the site that helping them understand and take back and take with them, their energy and all the work that they've done.
Yeah. So 1 1 of the things I just wanna say that I have I say in every process to the other teachers to whoever, and you probably heard me say this to you, whoever is gonna lead that but it's a celebration, mat dir. Yeah. It's time to leave and you've got your own energy. And you're strong in that energy and you also have this other energy that's available to you. But you are part of that you've contributed to and that you've been contributed to you. And how would you describe Du?
That they're just... Oh, it's so sad that we're all... We also close and now we're leaving each other. And in fact, it's a celebration. Well, this conversation has been a hell of a celebration. I'm grateful for this time. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Rossi. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Ross S, Often teacher and founder of the Hop Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access
to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hop institute dot org.