Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast drew warning with you This is our hundredth episode. When we started, we're not podcast. We were figuring it out as we went.
Here we are season 5 on our hundredth episode, kind of an citing milestone to hit, couldn't have a better guest than ian salvage, a Hoffman teacher therapist, listen along as iain starts in ut, and then moves through his experience as a enrollment coordinator at the office all the way up to his present life as a teacher in a therapist.
Actually, in the moment what it's like to be in this conversation with me talking about his life, really a full spectrum story of what it means to be a hoffman teacher part of why it works is there are no Guru. There are just real humans as teachers walking side by side with the students on their journey of healing. Please enjoy this episode. Our hundredth with ian salvage. Welcome to Lu everyday radius. Podcast cast brought to you about Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horn.
And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates of the process and have a conversation with them about how their work in the process. Is informing their life outside of the process, how their spirit and how their love are living in the world around them. Their everyday radius. Hey, everybody Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. It's ian Salvage that is on the show today, ian welcome. Thank you, Drew. Glad Glad to finally be here. Glad to be finally having this conversation
you and I have. Yeah. Been trying to schedule it, and I'm just really looking forward to it. Ian, you have a master's degree counseling psychology from the right Institute. You're an associate marriage and family therapist. You specialize in Somatic therapy. And your a hoffman process teacher. It's great to be having this conversation with you welcome. Yeah. I appreciate that. I'm actually a licensed to family therapist now. So that may have been some old information you might have there.
To be licensed a it's not a small thing. No, thank you. So tell us in a little bit of your story of who you are. I am 1 of 7 children actually. And so mixed in there is a couple step brothers and, 4 sisters, so a really big family. Well when I was thinking about getting on this interview with you. I mean, I actually had I ask myself, Like, what is my story? You know? I'm like, who am I? I'm not really a big share. You know? I'm much better listener.
And so it was nice to kinda look words and say, hey, like, you know, what is my story? You know, where where where am I coming from? And the couple things that came to mind, You know, When I think about my childhood had, my story kinda started, like, all of us obviously in Ut. Meaning, you know, when I was my mother pregnant with me, she was severely severely depressed, like, really, really depressed. Even suicidal idea allegations. Like, she was really going through a lot. And so, you know,
what of I first, like, somatic memories? So, like, the memories of my body is, you know, really kind of being in some really deep deep emotional pain. Like, in my nervous system. And, you know, it took me many years to kind of kinda come to that. My mom's is able to share a lot with me. But you know, that it was AAA big thing from me you was, I was learning at a very young age and throughout my life that emotions were overwhelming. You know, they're really, really big.
I'm bigger than what I was developmental ready for. And, you know, moving and, you know, when I was born, my parents have divorced was 5, and, you would have lived in some poverty. And, you know, there is a lot of lot of love and also, you know, a lot of trauma. And I learned this really amazing strategy called dis, learning how to actually not be present with emotions because I was learning that they were too big for me. Too big from a little body to handle. Now I had, like,
a panic attack when I was 5. Like, there's was a lot happening. And in that amazing strategy to survive and dis associate throughout my life, It was very hard for me to be present, very hard for me to to be connected and that really led me on my journey to heal by trying to come back into my body.
Trying to make my myself, you know, remind myself that I'm safe and that I have tools and this is kinda like a vague story here, but it was in that that really led me to my journey to heal is really coming back to present and coming back to in a adult nervous system. Even you do such a good job of explaining the value of patterns that we learn early on in our childhood. Certainly, dis associating can be problematic in adulthood, but I really get a sense of value of it in childhood it.
It helped you not get to overwhelm by life. Yeah. And I and I I say that with purpose, because I think we often we have this idea that, you know, that these ways, these patterns that help to survive are, like, they're bad and they're negative. And the truth is they they really helped, but as an adult, man hasn't it gotten in my way, and I've had to really learn to to rewire that way of being. And hop was
a big part of that. So this 5 year old who has the panic attack and then learns to dis associate, although it doesn't have the terminology for it. What happens then as you move through your grade school, high school college experiences. Well was interesting. You know, when I was 5 years old, I remember specifically, I was coloring a coloring book, like, the color purple. I remember that. And in order to actually color into create, and we have to open
up our right brain to express. It's a it's a different part of our brain. And so as I was expressing through color, I was, like, flooded with emotions and feelings that there, wasn't much of room for me to express when I was young, knew my childhood. So they kinda came out in a really traumatic way. So I learned... Oh, you know, emotions are scary. Emotions are too big. And in dis associating, not really being present in my
body. What happened was? So, you know, I grew up in a dojo, I think listen to my sister's podcast. I have 4 sisters and out in the process by the way. All 4. Yeah. All 4, which is pretty cool. And Olivia and Katie Had been on the podcast. I think they both talked about growing up in the dojo. My dad's mastering in Kung. Describe a little bit of what a dojo is. Yeah. It's basically a Martial Arts studio. And most dojo and and masters in control like my father.
Like, you're you're basically there from, like, 7AM to 10PM. You know, you're kinda living at the Dojo. And so... At a very young age, I learned how to use my body to to move to fight to express. And why I mentioned that is when I turned 20 years old, was a pretty athletic young man, and I was running track and feel at my junior college. And I had this really bad interest strain. My Hip flex are really bad. And for some reason,
this injury wouldn't heal. Mike, I went... Yeah, I went to all the doctors all the physical therapist and it wasn't getting better. And as I was trying to go through rehab on this physical part, know, my groin area, yeah, I was beginning kinda to dis associate, like, a lot of emotions were coming up.
And eventually, you, my body kind of shut down, and it was... I think it was my spirits way of saying, hey, you know, it's kind of time to look at what's what's inside because I was using activities and physical movement, you know, there was, like, my escape. And when that got taken away, I was kinda forced to actually really go inward. I remember when I was 20, I went to Europe backpack packing for 3 months, And I just had this awareness of, oh, like, it's time I actually
look inward. Like, it's something my body has shut down. I can't get better. I need to look about what's happening for me. Part of what you're saying is your body said, although you've done all this physical activity playing basketball, running track, all the athletics you've done. Enough is enough. I'm not gonna be the, escape portion of your life for you time to go inward. Yeah. And I can't tell you how many stories I hear about, you know, the body keeps the score.
Our bodies, our nervous system will shut down eventually. And then in a sense, I was kinda lucky enough that my body shut down early because, you know, I probably would have tried my best to avoid. Like I had been doing the whole life. And so... And it looking back, it was a blessing because It made me really look around how my trauma, my patterns that pain I was carrying inside was impacting every area of my life. And it it kind of took away my coping mechanisms, and I had to to do the
work. This part of your groin area wouldn't heal And so what did you do? Did you go to a therapist? How... What was next? Yeah. So, you know, so... I I was working with this A, man named William Lewis. Actually, he's an energetic healer, an amazing practitioner. So he worked with the body and works the energy of the body.
So I went to go see him. Was maybe 21 years old, and I was in a lot of pain, like, a lot of physical, like, chronic pain for my body being, like tight and not being able to to move like I really wanted to. So I I get... I... We have a session with them. I know this kinda woo, but he kinda energetically reads your body and reads your movements. And he said, hey, you know, if you don't look at this at this deep wounding
from childhood. And if you don't look at this deep sadness you've been caring, Your body's is gonna shut down even more, and I can kinda and already tell. You're gonna get test cancer. And this man works all around the world with people with with diseases and he He's, you know, there's a lot of work around this. So anyway, that woke me up, and I started my journey of going to therapists. Starting to really start to work on the things I wanted to avoid.
And when I was 17 years old, you know, going back, my mom went to the hoffman process. And she had a big shift when she came back. And I had dropped out of college at this time. Something I was 24, I dropped out of college and my mom said, hey. If you're gonna drop out, go the hoffman process and just see, you know, see how that can support you. I did that and my journey has been starting since then. And you've had a interesting Hoffman
relationship. You've done so much, tell us a little bit about beyond that first time, how did you get involved in enrollment? Yeah. So, I did the process when I was 24, and then went back, graduated from college, And hoffman was hiring as, like, a program registrar. And someone sent me the email was saying, hey, You know? You know what we know... Yeah. I got my undergraduate it was in psychology. So I figured hey this could be a good place to start, and
I applied. I was completely under qualified by the way for this like job that really needed you to be able a multitask and they organized. But Liza and Gracie Bless sole, our Ceo. She saw something in me. Hired me and been working in enrollment for maybe, maybe 7 years after that. I've done the process 3 times. So Get the process I 24. And I think 2013, the hop process, Scott rejuvenate from 8 day process to 6 and a half day process.
So myself, some other people in the office, other teachers, we kind of did the hof process again, to kind of test it out. So basically, So it was we're kinda like, the the dummy tests. And then in my second process, I had this deep understanding that the healing work I've been doing, but I have a capacity to help others. And it was in that in that process that I really after that start looking at graduate school and looking at my capacity to to be healer and to be a support.
And then at the same time, Hop was hiring for me to become hiring new teachers. And I was young enough and dumb enough to do grad school and hoffman teaching training at the same time but it was an amazing experience and then, you, kinda here I am. Of your 3 processes take us a little bit into the experience, what what stands out? Do you have some memories of some moments in time, and I asked that question in part because it is such
a cellular journey. You mentioned be vendor coax, the body keeps the score. And so for you, where did your body unlock and open up to some of the healing during your week. I think about that often, and I think when I was 24 years old, I know I was and a lot of pain, you know, highly dis associating a lot. But 1 of the big things from that from that first time under the process was, you know, as a child, I felt bad. And since children, we internalize our experience.
I made sense of the world was, oh I feel bad, therefore I am bad. So I had this big shame message my whole life that I was bad. How you know, because I feel bad all the time, there must be. But that must mean and I'm bad. And man that soak through every part of my life. My relationship to myself to others, just this big shame message that I was innate bad inside. Some point in the expression work at Hoffman. I don't remember which 1 at this point. There was this release that, like, that's not
true. Like, I'm good. Like, to my bones, I am good. Bad things may have happened to me, but I am good, and it was it wasn't like, a... It wasn't that someone told me that or that I was... Hearing about it. It was... I was using my body and I was disconnecting, and I was saying, like, this is not who I am. And I think that was the... Probably the first step to my healing journey was just the awareness of oh, that's actually a lie. And in that, I was able to start asking for help.
I was able to treat myself with more kindness and rewire that belief that I carried with me. You know, probably before I can walk. Align my body to align and to align and connect to have my intellect thought and new to what my emotional self felt and to what my spiritual self is, like, that my body was the was the missing piece to that alignment to knowing I was good. To feeling deep down, I was good. And and to remembering and embody my spirit, which is good. And
that's been my journey. You know, that's been a big thing from me is having that alignment and carrying with me in my life. Beautiful. And you will you share some specifics of that? In other words, how does it show up in in relationship or around identity, what's been some of the specifics of your journey? In the granular sense of how life operates. So, for those listeners, Don't know who I am. So I'm I'm half black half white. So my my father is black. My mom is is white.
Going back to childhood, when my parents divorce, I live with my dad, and my slow sister lived my mom. My dad came from, like, really really deep poverty in his life. And I grew up on poverty with him for, a certain part of my life and childhood. And my mother grew up from the East Coast with a family that were mostly middle upper class. An the interesting thing happened, and I'll tell
you how this is gonna relate soon. But as a child, my black side of the family rapport, the white side had money. And again, because children internalize the environment, I had this belief that oh, the black people are poor, Therefore, they must be bad. Like, my little brain at like, 4 or 5 years old trying to figure out the world Was like, oh, black people rapport and poverty maybe... This must be because we're bad. And white people have money. That means they must be good.
And it's such a... It's such a youthful young thought, you know, to to try to make sense of that of that. But it related to that shame message that not only did I did... Did I experienced in my childhood, but the world was also mirroring back to me on some level that I was less than that I was bad, because the color of my skin. You when I talk about that shame message I'm bad. It really also relates to how I see myself. And that I can look at my body that I can look at
my skin color. I can look at the man I am with love and compassion. And and again, a knowing how lovable and good I am, But looking back to how my childhood and society had really done a good job at shaping my identity of how I see myself and how I move in the world. And that's been a... It was a really, really big healing for me is to rewire that shame message that came from multiple aspects from my life. The process was in that journey?
Yeah. The process was integral in understanding that my shame message was not true. You know, the process doesn't necessarily talk about society and and racism, but it talks about the shame that we take on from our families and also how society is impacting our families. And that was know, that was a that was a big healing and still the stay, moving through that and navigating how I see myself. When you came out of your process us is, did you
engage family members? Your dad, your mom around this discovery around race and all you were learning and un learning? Yes and no. Yeah. I again can I I have some patterns are not necessarily expressing myself much? So as I was navigating that, I'm I'm not sure how much I shared with it, but during Covid, you know, 2 years ago, there's was a that the big black lives matter movement.
It really kinda gave me more permission to speak about my experience and more permission to tell my story and also invite invite people into My life to help help them hold me in a suffering and shame that I carried. That really kinda helped me move in that direction. I wrote like a short essay, and has titled 9 months that I wasn't black. And what happened was, I took a vacation during Covid. I was supporting a bit the the black community I was kinda getting burned out. I needed
to just escape. I took a vacation to Maui, and then never came back. I just stayed there I to work remotely and so I was able to kind of stay in Maui. And 9 months after that, I did something that I've never in my life done before. You, if if you look at me in Hawaii, he place me in Hawaii, many of the locals and the tourists think the I'm native, Hawaiian. Because of my skin color, I I kind of can blend in to looking like a native Hawaiian.
So most people don't actually don't think or no I'm black. Long story short, I was walking to this park, and a police officer was driving by. And I did something that was ingrained in me to never ever do my life. And I actually... I waived to put to the police officer as he drove by. And I almost was in shock that I did that. And what I realized so I was, oh my god. Like, I feel safe the police officers are also native Hawaiian, and they they see me as 1 of them.
And it was such a big, big awareness of Oh my god. Like, growing up and not necessarily feeling feeling totally safe in the world. And how that's attributed to again, you know, how that shows up in aspects of my life, and even my shame message. And so it was just a really big awareness of kinda the detriment of that, but also, the freedom that I have, I have choice to to hold myself worth more care.
And I love that story. You described not being good at expressing yourself and that 1 of the things you're learning is to allow people... I forget how you set it, but to share yourself so that people can you can invite people into your life to hold you. I mean, you described emotional intimacy in a way that I've not heard described before. Will you say a little bit more about what that journey is like for you given that's not your direct impulse.
Yeah. Well, there's a there's a quote that I always kinda come back to you, and it says, it's in relationships that we were hurt and it's in relationships that we heal. I think as I've developed, and I've grown. And honestly, becoming a hoffman teacher has really helped me with this. It's a it's in community that we heal. It's it's in telling our story, letting others hold us and see us, see our cr pains, your hurt. It's in that experience of being seen and held and loved. That we heal.
You know, I was becoming a hoffman teacher. Well Was when I was a training, when I was in training for it, You know, I think, like, my first internship, I was trying to be a hoffman teacher. I was trying to trying to teach. And what I've learned was when I'm there, if I can just share myself. Not sure my story necessarily, but just be in the authentic vulnerability of the human experience. You know, say, hey, like, I'm here right with you. Like I'm right by your
side. I don't meet... I may not know your specific trauma and suffering, but I know it, like, I know what that is. And just being side by side with people, has helped me become more vulnerable with with other people in my life. And I think we learn I learned that it's through that vulnerability that the real healing occurs, and that's been a big gift that I've learned but from being a hoffman teacher. I love your vulnerability here in this conversation.
Will you contrast a little bit your work as a Hoffman teacher and your work as a licensed therapist, what do you notice in these 2 roles? You know, 1 thing I wanted to share earlier that I'm... Not gonna I'm remember. So the hoffman process, it's it's 1 of the most most amazing experiences I've ever been a part of. And the integration, which meaning like, the time afterwards is probably the most important part. So it's really the time after Hoffman that we really integrate and heal
and transform. I mean, the week is amazing, but the real work begins afterwards, which I think most graduates can tell you. So as a hoffman tea, I mean, as a as a therapist. III work... I do a lot of work around the inner child.
Like reconnecting and learning to have more intimacy in connection with our inner inter child using the body to help us process trauma and help us connect to our truth you know, had a great supervisor and in grass cold called Kathleen Dunbar, who is a H coma therapist, and it's really about inner child work some somatic work. But what I can do with a client in 3 to 5 years, they'll probably do that at Hoffman in a week. Because of the group aspect, because of the community around it.
And because they're there for a week. And... But my work is very much similar to to the hoffman. It's just helping people remember who they are. Like, remembering who their spirit really is. Like, we have all these areas we take on. We have all these patterns that get in the way of us actually embody who we truly are. So my work really is how can I bring people to their spirit?
Like, how can I bring them to their authentic self, Their why self, their true self, and that's really kind of, in my hope and my intention? You know, Ian, you you've said a couple things. I just wanna highlight. The the first 1 is that the the time after and the integration of the work
is really where it all begins. And, you know, that can be challenging for students who've just worked their tail off during a week, and they feel so good to think that that's just the beginning And so you just share a little bit about what makes a post process integration go well and what makes it go off the rails. What I've seen both in my personal experience and just being a hoffman teacher I think what stops us from integrating and healing
is this belief that... Oh, I've done the work therefore, I should be perfect and fine and completely healed, you know, or whatever that means. The real healing is in the relapse. Meaning like, you go the hoffman process have this amazing week. You go home. And then you find yourself in patterns. You find yourself in these old coping mechanisms. You find yourself getting caught lost in negative patterns. And the real healing word journey is how do I now
come back to my truth. Like, how do I see this, hold myself with love, ask for support and come back to my spirit it's in that kind of getting loss and coming back, getting loss and coming back. It's in that pen punctuation that we integrate and heal. And I think many I think As many people aren't aware that it's in that journey that we we come to our self, we come to our truth. I made a lot of mistakes after Hoffman, I'm gonna continue to make mistakes.
And the way I hold myself with love and come back to my truth. Is through real work. And I'm kinda repeating myself, but I think it was really important lesson than I learned there. I do think there's value in in what you're saying because many graduates think that the... You know, they've... If it's no secret that post process, you feel pretty good. And sometimes the goal really sort of the unspoken goal is to maintain that feeling.
And in fact, part of what you're saying is while that might be nice, the real work happens when the dark side attack occurs when we struggle when that feeling goes away and we're hurting, say more about what should happen in those moments when when it's not going well. I can tell you for me, growing up, if I made a mistake, or, you know, if I did something wrong. In many ways, like, you know, I was punished. Like, I I was learned, oh, change is motivated through punishment.
Yeah. After often and the therapy have done, it's like, okay. When I'm hurting, How do I motivate myself through love? Like, how do I hold myself gently? Like, how do I love myself through the change? Rather than criticizing shaming and gil myself to motivate change. I think many of us learned to do those things. If you shame, criticizing and guilt ourselves, taking that's gonna be the way to motivate and sustain, change and the truth is, it has to be through love. And it's
hard, man. I'm... I took a 2 year self compassion class because it was the hardest thing for me to hold myself with love when I was suffering. I mean, that was such a big shift, in it was almost impossible to think to do that. But I think that's that is the real work because holding yourself with love, asking for help. And allowing yourself to be human? What's it like to be a human on your journey forever learning in always humble and yet quite powerful.
I see you in front of the room and your work with students and I think you embody presence in such a deep and profound way, I I look at you in your in your work as a teacher with such awe And as I told you, you're good medicine for me because you're so present with your students whether they're 30 of them, and you're in front of the classroom or whether there's just 1 of them and you're in a breakout session. Well, I I appreciate that.
You know, I I tell people I had a lot of good teachers and a lot of good therapist in my life. You know, to to help me get to this to this place. And I I think what 1 of my intentions was and and on this podcast was for people to see, like, I'm many ways, I'm in an authority position when I'm teaching around as a therapist, but I, I'm on the journey. You know? Like, I I struggle with anxiety, and I've
struggled with depression. You know, like, there's moments, lots of moments where I feel like I'm lost and, you know, there's no hope. In my journey I'm realizing that that's part of being a human being. And I'm allowed to be mad at god, I'm allowed to have a bad day. You know, I'm I'm allowed to to get messy, and that's doesn't make me any less lovable or less worthy. And I think I was really hoping
that people can can take that. Like, oh, like, you don't have to be perfect like this this is the journey you can still be loved. So, like, that was a big, big big lesson for me in my life. Yeah. And it was even preventing you from sitting down with me for this conversation? I remember, I came back to you again and said, would you reconsider after your first couple of nose And and what did you say? Because I thought it was it was quite profound.
Yeah. I was so thankful for that experience because you asked me to be on the podcast. And my first thought was, oh, wait. I haven't made it yet. I haven't healed. I haven't gotten there. I'm not enlightened. It was this idea that my story had to be complete that I had to have fully healed myself and, like, been in this place. And it was such a good lesson for me because I'm I'm now realizing, oh, it's it's in the journey. It's in the story.
That we help motivate people. You know It's in our vulnerability vulnerability that we inspire, and it was such a good less. I also grateful that you asked me and I said no for so long. And I asked myself, why am I saying, no. And I had this idea that I had to... I had to have all figured it out, and that's just that's so not true and I don't think, you know, that's how people get inspired. So what is next for you? You're still in Hawaii and still teaching and in private practice.
But what's next? What what do you notice as you look towards the future? I think my journey is to, honestly, to continue, like, loving myself. You know? Like, honestly, I think that's continue to do that because it's when I do that that I... That I'm really present them in the world. So who knows what's there was to come, but I think my my journey, my my life lesson is gonna be really holding myself with love, which I think many of us can relate to. I am
at the Hoffman retreat side. I'm about to a process starting tomorrow morning, and 1 of the things we talk about is surrender and what it means to surrender to your spiritual self and surrender and let go. And I think you just did a great job of describing that. I'm not sure what the future holds, but I do know that if I love myself through it all that I'll be okay with whatever happens. I'm so grateful that I have.
Learn that... Oh that I'm learning that lesson, and that I'm bringing into practice and that I'm... And sometimes I really suck at it. You know. But I I believe... Many anyways ways, I became a teacher and the therapist because I wanted to heal. You know, I think every time I teach a process a part of heels. Every time I'm... I support 1 and someone in my therapy a part of me heels. I don't use it for that purpose, but I think that my journey has been in helping others in the work.
I'm gonna be able to continually help myself and vice versa. Ian what's it like to tell your story, and reflects so deeply on your ongoing learning of how to be a human. Yeah. I'm wondering if I'm gonna have, like a... Vulnerability hangover after this. But it feels right, and it feels important. And I'm I'm glad that again get myself the opportunity. To share my truth and to share my human ness. I again, I guess in this moment I feel grateful that I've had so many people in my life.
Who've helped me get to this place where I can actually articulate and express myself. Yeah. There's just gratitude at this moment. Ian, thank you so much for this time for your heart for this conversation. Hey, Drew. Thank you. Thank everyone. I appreciate you all. Thank you for listening to our podcast My name is Liza and Grass. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Ras Grass, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hop to
foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hop institute dot org.