That 1 point in this episode, Gerald Harris refers to his life growing up in the south and what it was like for him in the very rural area of Georgia. And then he talked about what life is like for his kids growing up in Northern California. What's in the middle life's should say is Gerald. And he is the transition from his rural southern up bringing to his northern California life and the upbringing he gave his kids. Gerald has been a board member for years
now he's on the advisory board. He's so integral to the journey of Hoffman Institute and in this process. He so beautifully reflects on his own journey. Please enjoy. Welcome to Loves everyday radius. Podcast podcasts brought to you about Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horn. And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates of the process.
And have a conversation with them about how their work in the process is informing their life outside of the process, how their spirit and how their love are living in the world around them, their everyday radius. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. My name is Drew Horn. Gerald Harris is with us this morning. Gerald, it's great to have you here. Thank you. My pleasure. So Gerald is an energy economist.
What is an energy economist?? Yeah. Right. So an energy economist is those people who are in the backgrounds who are helping determine what energy assets are built, and that could be power plants pipelines, transmission lines, refine and resolve that kind of stuff that we use in our energy, you know, lives, But you gotta figure out who owns that stuff and how they make investments decisions around building it. And that's what I do as a profession been doing it for, over 35
years. Joe, you are a father of 2 boys. That's right. A fire? That's right. And a teacher. In fact, he my youngest, my youngest is a teacher is gonna be a kindergarten garden teacher all that. So I tell people if you wanna send me the great parenting award for creating a fire man and a kindergarten teachers just, you know, drop it in the mail. Wow but Hoffman helped a lot. I'll I'll go through our hoffman up a lot. So. I I didn't get there because I was a
great guy. I can assure you I didn't get there because I was such a great guy. So what led you? You did the process in December of 2002. 20 years ago? That's right over 20 years ago. Wow. Right. So what led you to take the process? Well, at the time, I was in a committed relationship with a with a person who knew about the process. She was professional therapist And, you know, I think she actually cared
a lot about me. And she would observe certain things, but I think 2 things came up for me. 1 is the whole era of emotional sensitivity. Because of my background, particularly bang a sort of, like, heavily academic kind of person Depending on in Hoffman Language my. It's intellect a lot, and it got me a long way. But to some degree I think I was overly dependent on that, and I would experience times when I just lost track of where people were mostly. And I would realize that I was just
out of the conversation. I was out of what was going on there. And then the other thing is I had been abused as a child by my parents, particularly, especially my mother. 31 who has a great mom. Some of those moms weren't Exactly great. Right. I think that you know, damaged me in some ways that I wasn't completely aware of. And I think it was affecting what kind of father I. And so, I got a copy of the paper on the quad process. And I read that paper, and I put it down. I thought, oh my god.
It hit so many things. I was triggered so much just for reading the paper that I knew I had to do it because I... It became clear to me. That patterns I had gotten from my childhood and from my karen was showing up in my life. Is that the Bob Hoffman, it's the 1 that's actually the written no, Son Hoffman website. It's because that's a quad process. Payment. Yeah. I'm not sure... I do have a copy of no one's to blame.
But this was just a short paper as maybe 15 pages or so that lays out sort the hoffman for Quadrant assess, and I thought, oh, man. I mean, it it just blew me away after already. Yeah. And so you you take the insight you got from that paper and then step into the process, knowing some initial stuff around overly emphasized into life. You know what when I came into it, I just decided I was gonna to fact someone said, you know what? Why don't you just take a week away to work on yourself.
And that was my whole attitude come into it. Okay. You're roughly in your mid forties here. Have you ever spent any time working on your yourself? Because certainly, all these problems I've had in my life since I was the 1 who was there. Okay. I must have been contributing to these problems. I'm kinda wait. Right? So I thought, oh, this is a great. So I kinda went into it really open, but then the
the the pre work, you know, we... The stuff had to fill out and the background material that was a lot of thinking going in. I thought, yeah. You know, I was remembering things. You know, I hadn't any thought about any years. About my father about my mother about my
grandparents, you know? So in fact, during the process, I I had so many, I guess, deep memories stuff that was sort of buried in that came up in the process that explained so many things to me about how I thought about life and how what decisions decisions I made and that kind of stuff though. Yeah. So lots of reflections during your process. What do you remember? Do you have at some moments in time? Oh, yeah. Oh my god. 2 experiences that I'll share with you
during the process. Right? So remember I had this super intellect. Right? And I mean, let me be honest with you. Okay? I was a 5 beta capital graduate from college. Had a full tuition and make the scholarship to college. From there, I went to the university of Chicago, which 1 of the hardest schools in the world, getting into my whole end language is super pumped up. Right? So right in the middle of the process, I'm not
This is early on. I'm really not to something we, I'm I'm I'm observing the process. Right? Since I decided, I would critique the process. And why do I teacher's said... So why do you think you should do that? And I went. Oh my god. He's right. Okay. There's your inner way. There's your control thing. There's your... You have to be the smartest guy in the room. So many of my patterns were just sitting there. I went wow. Yeah. You're right. The other 1 that got me was the exercise on projection.
Right? Where someone During the process comes up to you and says, you know, when you did x, I perceived you as blah blah blah blah blah. Right? And I was like, well, anyway. I wasn't even trying to be any of that. Right? And then I did that to someone else, and they were like, oh, no. That, you know, wasn't really where where it was at all. And so then it got clear to me that when you add the intellect, projection when I'm projecting something onto to someone else's is not them.
Oh, that was huge. That was huge. I mean, that that helped me totally to be a better listener, the importance are being patient, the importance of asking questions that real importance of respecting the other person at a deeper level as opposed to my chest, You know, this is what you are. I'm naming you. I'm judging you. I'm I'm projecting on you. That was huge for me. That happened happens later in the week where people have a chance to understand how they relate to each other in process.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, let me add 1 more thing about my background here. So, you know, I grew up in the deep south with a people now would call it conservative Christian holy roller background. So here you have this kid that's trained to think that There is a right... There's a wrong. People commit sense that to be punished. I'm that whole, you know, head trip. The whole self righteousness of all of that.
Well, that was stacked in there too. So not only could I just sort of say, you know, you were wrong. Well, I would probably say you're wrong in God sees that you're wrong. My god, by the way, not yours, but still Mean So I'm totally, I'm totally wound up here. Share a little bit about where you learned that and your parents and Yeah how you grew up in that environment. Yeah. Yeah. III tell people that. There is no place in the United States. I don't think that's similar to where I was born.
Because Was born in the outskirts of Atlanta, a little town called it Hate, Not Hate, HAP, Hate ville, Georgia. It's famous for being the home there were up the original chick for life. So all, you chick lucky fans. You know what I'm talking about. Right? But there was a little town on the other side of the railroad track where black families had settled coming out of share cropping, in rural Alabama, and that's where my parents and grandparents came from.
So we were in these little ragged little houses with no indoor plumbing, no, indoor, gas or anything like that. I mean, really dirt poor people. And for the first 5 or 6 years of my wife, that's where I grew up. But the thing about it it was it was a village. And everybody knew everybody. And everybody was related to everybody. So my cousin, my aunt, my uncle. Right? And so it was... Even though we were rapport, you know, when you're a young kid, you don't know you poor because you just...
This is what it is. Right? So if I was out playing with my cousins, My neighbors or climbing trees or eating, you know, peaches off the tree or... So pecans from another tree or whatever. I didn't... You know, it it was wonderful for me. You know, it it's a really small little little place, and you know, lived there until was really 7 or 8 years old. And both my grandparents
were there. In fact, I tell people, when I think about history, My grandfather was a illiterate, and both my sons have college and Greece, and I have a master's degree, That's how fast the change what. Your your grandfather was. Both your grandparents. Were... Both my grandfather were illiterate. My my grandmother, on my father's side graduated from high school. But that was because she was like an Obama. She was half white, and so her white family made sure she got her. High school diploma.
And that made a big difference in my family. But... Yeah. We're... I'm from way back there, But then, When I was about 5 6 years old, there was something called the great migration. Where African Americans were going into the in industrial plants in and in Northeast, Chicago, my my mother decided to go to Chicago, in the middle of winter in December drag me along. So you could go and work on a lighting factory on an assembly line. So this great migration where...
Black people move from the south and the farming. Yeah. To the manufacturing That's right. Of the northeast And at at had minimum peace kinda of wages. Right? So it's still, you know, you're still dirt poor. But for me it's a child. The trauma of moving out of Atlanta just Chicago and the dead of winter. It was so cold. You know, we had Atlanta clothing. We didn't have Chicago... Our clothing was, like, this little thin cotton that we were in the South. Mean, I mister froze
the death. Right? But from that mall on, I knew the first thing I did when On... When I grew up I wanted to get out of Chicago. It took me a while to get out of there. It wasn't as bad as town as I thought, but as a child it was really trauma out. You mentioned that as a child, you don't know your poor. And I'm curious, you mentioned also about being abused by your mom. Did you know that you were being abused by your mom?
This is such a great question because, you know, in an African American community, mothers are on pedestal. They're on pedestal. Yeah. I mean, in fact, if you wanna get into a fight, to on the by money mother. Right? So connected in the deep south. Right? So I actually didn't face up to that completely until until the process because I was an only child raised by a single parent. So she did everything she could to, you know, raise me as best she could into these poverty conditions. Right?
And she was a Christian. She taught me a lot of good Christian value. She wasn't all no one's all mad. Right? But, you know, people believe then if you spare the rod spouse well the child at whatever they term is. But you basically You got a whoop for everything. You you forgot your gloves. You gotta remember that. Whatever it was. Right? Now as I look back on, I realized it was it was abused. And I... You
know, even in my... Even in my family, they kinda knew that because very often when not I grew up, people would take me away from my mother. My grandparents were come and get me and take me away. As a way of helping you protecting you. Yeah. Right. She they knew they knew she was, she was over the top? How did your process support you in navigating your relationship? With your mom. Well, when I took the process, my mother at passed, but it made me take her off the pedestal
knew a serious assessment. And then also look at what patterns of a hers was I repeating and raising a children Now, my children only got 1 spanking for me in their entire life. I got, like, 2 or 3 week. You But What I realized is that, oh, wait a minute, the fact that I felt justify. And punishing them, really came from that pattern I got from my mother. Right. How old were your kids when you took the process? Oh, they were probably oh, 7 and 12. So you're right in the thick of father
hook. Oh, totally. As you take the process. That's right. You... You understand a lot of what happened with you as a child and your mom? Totally. In fact, we had a we had a... 2 hour session with a therapist. Me and my sons and a therapist, 1 on 1 on this exact issue. After the process? After the process. And what was that about? It was about me explaining to them who I was? How I grew up. Why I was that way, and why I was wrong? And I'm sorry. And how did they receive it? Change everything.
Changed everything. They understood me better. You know, it's interesting. You raise your children but sometimes they don't know. Because you don't explain yourself. You know, my my son's now say, well, that between how you grew up not only on, you know, rural Atlanta, but gang infested south south of Chicago, we grew up in the hills of mon Claire with, you know, a house being driven the school and back, you know, by our mother wasn't working and we had at everything.
That we didn't have the life you had. So now they have a whole deeper understanding. Did they go on to take the process? Neither 1 of them have but we went through years of therapy. And III told them both when you're ready when you want to let me know, and I would hoped that they would do it prior to getting married. I think it make a better husband. How did the process support you in having that conversation with that therapist? For that hour and a half.
1 thing that the process never will tell anybody does is it gives needs for me. It gave me a heart centered way of communicating. A heart centered way of communicate. Right. Not an intellectual. Mental way. Of communicating. That's a whole different thing. Communicating with an open heart not only makes me about a listener but it makes me more emotionally present during
the time. Which opens up space, who whoever, and particularly with my boys it opened up a space for them to share how they were feeling without, you know, watching for some Intellect, is gonna analyze and judge. It had a huge impact on your parenting as a father. How else did the process support. Yeah. I think it made me a better... I would say consultant employer, worker, the you know, when you're trying to help people in business, make decision. They're not all intellectual.
I mean, that's a certain amount of analytical rigor. But at the same time, people need to be heard. They have different backgrounds to give different points of view. And so learning how to be a little better listener and then learning how to ask questions in such a way to allow people to come out to come forward. In the business, I... I mean, I spent a lot of time doing what's called scenario.
Creation, which is creating me various stories about the future, and then you you take your strategy or your company and you place it in these different worlds and you saw it works so like that's or what I do in terms of scenarios. So let me just get this straight you create projections of what the future will look like. That's right. And then see your company's role. That's right. Within that... That's right. That's right.
And with all these scenarios, and it's saw like AAA narrative story that says, oh, well, in 10 years, these things are gonna happen with the economy. Things things may happen in your markets. These things may happen with your competitors and all sudden Here's this world you're if you're living in. Right? And here's your... Here's your company. And we gave you 3 or 4 though. So they're all different... And now you have a different way of thinking about oh on these circumstance we would do
this. These kind of risks might be over here. These kind of opportunities might be over here. So some really open thinking process. But there's a certain amount of deep listening, emotional emotional sensitivity to bring that out. So for example, someone may have a crazy idea about the future. Your job is not to say it's crazy.
You can't say that. Right? Your job is say, oh, you know, tell me more about that And how how do you think that's going occur because As we know, the future is unpredictable, and a lot of crazy things happen. Right? And you may have someone that as really thought about this. And it may expose some real opportunity or risk that you need to think about. So by by allowing more emotional sensitivity. And less intellect, you actually deepen
the understanding of that future projection. Right. And and you allow people, the space to put forth their idea. And and without judgment and criticism without judgment and criticism systems, which might have come from the intellect totally. And there's plenty of room for that. Right? You know, the other place I would probably say that the hop process helped me outside just intellect the emotional space of the spiritual space. Tell me a little bit about your
relationship with your spiritual self. Yeah. So remember, I was his holy roller saying you know, you gotta go to hell. We're gonna go to having an, you know, kind of person everything was black and white. You know know, The kinda thing... You know, there's a part in the process where you contact or or create this relationship with your deep spiritual guy, you know Now, when I grew up, being a Christian, of course, that deep got God had to be Jesus.
When I went into the process, I had began to to reboot his thought in other kinds of thought. Right? Or when I came out of the process, what became clear to me is that the fundamental right and wrong there. The fundamental ability to be compassionate toward another to forgive another. That really is not real... There's not tied to any particular religion I need to free that from this sort of cast of christianity. Not the Christianity is bad. Right?
But I had to open the thing because when I really began to think about... My deep spiritual guide, it was like, well, you can't go around saying because this person's a, you know, some other religion, that they don't deserve... They don't know you need to change them all kind of business. Right? Forget all that. If if I'm coming from my deep spiritual space, which is really about love, forgiveness, kindness, compassion, justice. I just need to hold that base.
And so the there's there's parts of the process. Right? That I realized, oh, that's really what this is. And more importantly, it became a deeper part of me as a person. Irrespective of what was written somewhere... Somewhere else because I had to now go out and live that had to treat people that way. How do you contrast that with somewhere the holy roller. Oh, the holy roller since in judgment, man. Man, the holy roller says there's a them and an us. It's us over here,
we're the good people. And everybody else over there who doesn't believe when we believe is a them over there. That's the problem. What was it like to transition out of that modality out of that orientation and into this more deeper connected to... Oh, it it led to years of reading wide range of different text I actually joined a a new thought searched associated with Michael Beck with, you know, out of La. You know, start reading his stuff, just, you know, opened up my whole
way of. In fact, I still work on it. You know? I mean, I still in my meditations or my readings or whatever. I'm still at a place where I want to being in connection with that spirit guide. So as I'm moving through life. If I face a challenge or an opportunity or whatever, that I'm in connection with that in a way that it allows me to see better I'll just use that word. See
better. Yeah. Beautiful. So you must have been continued to be inspired by the Hoffman process your experience because in 2007, you join the board. In 2012, you become board chair. And then for the next 10 years from 2012. To 2022, just a cup few months ago you resigned as the board chair after 10 years and now you're on the advisory board? Right. Is that right? Coming into the advisory board.
That's right. Yeah. So what was it like to fill that role in being a board member of this nonprofit called the Hoffman Institute. The good thing about the Hoffman board. The entire time I've been on there is is managed to attract a high quality of really good people. And importantly, it it doesn't attract people who have an agenda. It attracts people who really wanna give back.
Particularly because in most cases when in all cases, we have to have done the process to get on the board in the first way. And so more people come out of the process where, you know, it change we of the world. And in fact, I... Most people probably don't know this, but you know, all hop and board meeting start with a meditation. I was curious Yeah you're sitting around the table of
about Right graduates. No. No. We start with a meditation because, the whole point of that is to get people understand that what we're talking about here is not widgets. Alright? We're not... It's not manufacturing here. Tell you people, you know, what we're we're in we're in the business of of of changing the human heart and human psyche. That's that's not a widget. So you gotta be on a total different frame of mind. And that's what your business
is. So the good thing is we've had... I mean, I the I've had the pleasure of certain with some wonderful people, like, on left the board a few months ago is because we had got such a good tumor of people. And I think, you know, let someone else beach here. Let someone else. You know, work closely with the management team, and and we mean, have so many so many good people who make tremendous contributions to the organization, But but what I say about the Hoffman board experience is that...
Because the core of the hoffman process is about giving the participant a way to make their lives better, it it's about serving... The person is in the decline. So it's not profit driven. It's not oh, you know, we gotta have more of this. It's not some, you know, money, gru, van going here. Right? And other thing is, like, I'm we're just is not a cult we're not trying to convert you to something, so you send us money forever. You know. And Not try to do any of that stuff.
Right? We don't care about that. Right? That that makes it a whole lot easier because of the cleanest purity with what hoffman is actually all about. Well, let's see You're on the board almost 15 years. Mh. What have you noticed over time that's changed for the Institute? I think 2 things I think that's changed since since I've been here. 1 is the diversity of the teaching core. Now, lot of different kinds of people there.
We sort of right around the edges, modernize the tools and stuff in the process became more culturally and socially relevant to, you know, this current group of people, And then of course, know, we did survive fire, you know, that burned the place down. Was, you know, was quite a past there. But, you know, now, we've got a new location, so that was, you know, clearly a a huge challenge. I mean, I... There few things out side of my family that have ripped my heart out, that was 1 of them.
When I saw the pictures, I was... I think I must have cry for at least in a 15 minutes as a 67 year old man. Right? And then I just... I was... I I couldn't... I could barely talk. I mean, I was just so Mean I had so many memories there. I mean, as a board chair, bear in mind, you got a lot of, you know, graduation ceremonies and that kind of thing you're hear. Incredible life stories and you meet people and just all of that was just tied up in that in that place in that experience.
I wanna ask about, you mentioned your experience growing up in the south and and as an African American, what is the venn diagram of the Hoffman process and what it does around healing with race and your own upbringing Mh. As a black man in this country. How do you see those 2 relate? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's... You know, that's something I I continue to give some thought to... But but let let let me say this here's why I think it... I think here's what I it overlap.
I think it overlaps in the heart space. If you read doctor King, and I went to Moo house college with Doctor King. There so of course, went big doctor King Fan. Right? When you really hear what he's saying about the United States and it living up to the true meaning of its creed, You know, That king loved the America. He loved people. He loved black people as well as poor white people. A lot of what he was talking about was for the poor. So that, miss because I think he had a
He had a heart. He had a and he saw the tragedy of the things that people were going through. Right? Well, Hoffman is also a heart centered process. So I will say this. If you go through the hop process and have a genuine experience of it a genuine experience of compassion forgiveness that cracks your her, then You should be uncomfortable, blatantly discriminating of mist treating someone, because of their race or their sexuality or
whatever. Because something in your heart is gonna tell you whatever that deep guy is gonna tell you, like, hey, you know, thumbs wrong with that. Now you can ignore it if you want to, as you know that that's the bad idea. Right. But, see, I think where these things come cross at is in that hard space. Right? Because diversity, inclusion and acceptance. Means I accept you as a person. Well, that that's because I'm... I have a open heart I have a open mind. And I'm not judging you based on some
external thing. I wanna know, hey, Drew. Who are you? What are you thinking? What's your background? What was your life earns. How do you see this? What what knowledge in special skills you have. Right? So that has nothing to do in any exterior turns It has to do with the totality of you. And so if you come out of the hop process with a totality of your own cell, That shouldn't that make it easier for you to accept the to totality of another person, and it increases that curiosity.
Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. So I I would say that I don't think Hoffman is the cure. To raise anything like that, but I think you can make a big contribution to it. Even if I go back to my Christian holy roller kind of thing. 1 the thing that's really true about that is it talks about a conversion and a transformation you have to make to become a true christian. Right? The Jesus is in your heart. They say you are saved after you've given your heart to Jesus,
and you've had this conversion experience. Right? That's why you can baptized in this water. Well, hoffman is a conversion experience too if you do it the right way without the water. Gerald. You say a little bit more about that? I'm smiling here. It's like, I see the relationship? Yeah. The the Christian foundation of the conversion experience. And Hoffman is that as well? Yes. Right? It's a conversion experience in the sense that... Well, let me give you a classic example.
If I can forgive in the process, the abuse of my mother, If I can forgive in the process, the abandonment of me as a child by my father. Because he wasn't around. And then I can go through a compassionate way of thinking about both of them. Well, what was it like when they were 18? And they had this little kid, and they were in the south, and they came out of poverty. Maybe there was only so much they could do, Maybe there was only so much they had.
So now through this process, there's a whole level of compassion understanding that's evolved. Out of there. Well, that's a conversion experience. Right? Because the conversion has to be in the heart and the my, it has to have a new understanding. To me, that's ultimately what genuine Christianity is all about. But I'm not gonna argue with these Christians about all these things, so please leave me. I mean, that's is my personal view of. Yeah. Joe, I wanna ask because in the
process, we talk about cheap forgiveness. Oh, yeah. Where you go to forgiveness too quickly. And so at the beginning, there's a piece of using your voice standing up, saying what you couldn't say as a kid. So do you remember in your early part of your process during your week of speaking a truth that perhaps you couldn't speak as a kid where you got upset with your parents and called them out and held them accountable and said things
for sure. I mean, I can say process are taking my mother off the pedestal. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I... Sometimes, I talk to people. I say, well, You know, my mother was crazy. Right. I said people... Well you mean my mother was crazy. Right? And I said, what was a part of her was that was crazy. Because you you shouldn't go out and Find a branch off of a tree and beat a kid till a kid bleeds because they left their gloves at cool. Come on. No. And even to then find compassion,
Right. In the midst of that kind of behavior towards you as a little kid? Well, because you have to ask yourself. I mean, 1 thing about going through the process and going back to when you were 4 or 3 years old, not only are you going back to when you were there, But what age were your parents? Where were they at? What were they doing? That's what me where? Compassion comes in and it's like, oh, wait a minute. My mother had me at 18. To mean she was pregnant at 17.
She dropped out a high school in 10 gray. So what does she know? And I'm pretty sure she wasn't trying to get pregnant. If you hit my drift, because my father at the time had left and gone and join the army Come back but finishing his degree in college. Right? And all of a sudden, his old girlfriend from the old neighborhood is bring. That's me. Right? So you think about any oh, jesus me Oh, no. And you're setting not what they were doing? Then ain't... This is this is no. No.
What it like to remember all this and reflect on your childhood and your process time and your life as a board member? Where I use it is and 2 things. 1 is why do I see this the way I see it? Why did I decide that whatever I be really honest with someone about what I'm thinking? Right? And where it comes from. I mean, I I have a guy working with for about a decade. And sometimes we're dealing only me some issue
with a client. And I will say, oh, Richard, the reason I'm thinking this is because I got triggered by this thing over here, and That's affecting. Thinking about this. Right? So this is not about you. This is really about me being triggered by this particular thing. So now I have that conversation I can be opening honest about that. The other place I use it is every once in a while still. This a human? I get mad. I explode. And Was like, oh, god. What was that
triggered? There's was a button there? To someone press. And I have to go back through the steps of my process like, okay. So what was that? In that time to your processes ongoing. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely I do elevators, probably at least once a week, I'm an elevator or something like, like I know well doing, you know, what was thinking there. Or I will go back and do look at a pattern that I have and... Oh, you know what? This is that pattern
is playing out. Now, how do I rep process that how do I convert that onto the right road. On the right row. Right? Because, you know, I I gave an example of what I got really upset. This this happened a couple days ago. This what happens to you. So everyone gets these calls from of these scam artists, who are trying to tell you that, oh, you know, we're from Amazon and someone just bought an ipad on your account. We're we're
just trying to get it all straight. It's like, first of all, I never bought anything from. I don't have anything out there. I have nobody like that. I know this is a scam. Right? And so I just went off on the guy. And look, you... That Curse has got, like, you better stop calling here. And I said, you know, Joe, you can't do that. For my own health. Afterwards, you said you can't do that. Right.
But I realized that I had got triggered because, you know, if I think if someone's trying to cheat me? Okay. But where does that come from? And why do you have to get so upset about it? Okay. Even though this guy is certainly a scam artist. I mean, they happen all the time. Right? I could just hang up and block this thing and move on. So there was something in your reaction. That's right. That had you said, let me take a deeper look at
this. Right. But and particularly to... For self protection because... I don't really need to have, like, anger explosions at my age because, you know, heart pressure, blood pressure all kind of stuff, you know I man, you can take yourself out with some of make yourself really sick with this that right. He's completely unnecessary. Yeah. You know, Be careful about that. Gerald, I'm grateful for this conversation. And... Oh,
thank you so much. And fine. As a Hoffman teacher, I'm grateful for your service on the board and the stewardship of the organization. My pleasure. It was a it was a gift to me. I tell that. As this is, the wonderful people I met the wonderful experience working with with Liza and Ras who was just... Tip top people, the the the members of the board, the people have met. And
just an opportunity to to give back. I enjoyed every minute of it, and I hope to still be you know, around on the advisory board or, you know, whatever else stuff you may need admitted to themselves now. So thank you so much. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Rossi. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Asking Rossi. Often teacher and founder of the Hop institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access.
To the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hop institute dot org.