You know, when I listen to Ryan Miles, describe his childhood, in rural Idaho, and the religion under which his parents practiced. I'm aware of the power of that immersive experience for him. And perhaps, in no other episode, do we get a sense of before during and after, Ryan reflects on life for the process a bit of his life in the process, and spends a fair amount of time reflecting on how different things are. Outside of the process. Is a timeline there that's pretty cool.
I hope you enjoy this episode this vulnerability this honesty of Ryan miles. Welcome to Loves everyday radius. Podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horn. And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates of the process. And have a conversation with them about how their work in the process is informing their life outside of the us, how their spirit and how their love are living in the world around them, their everyday radius.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast, drew Horn here. Orion miles is with us. Ryan welcome. Thank you, Drew. That's great to have you Ryan is the owner of peak imports. Peak euro technically. Peak euro. They are in bend Oregon. He's the owner and the Ceo, been a business for 15 years. He's been married for 23 years. And he has 2 children and he's also a graduate of the Hoffman process. Ryan, it's great to have you welcome. I'm am very, very grateful to be here. Thank
you. I'm excited for this conversation, and I'm aware that Well, let's just say people sign up for the process for a lot of different reasons, but 1 of them is that things aren't going too well. They want less of something and more of something else. They have certain pain points that drive them to want to take a week off and do some deep dive into their internal world, what were your pain points? That's a great question. That's a huge question. Don't try to summarize.
Most recently the pain points that drove me toward Hoffman. I think there are lots of pain points, but I had really come to notice that I was very alone in my life that the reason that I was alone is I I couldn't really I couldn't really work up any empathy for anyone, and therefore, didn't really have a lot of friends, including in my immediate family as he said, I am married. And for 23 years, probably the first 20, pretty clueless as to why it was up that way, what was really
going on. And I just didn't know what was causing all of that? And I think probably through a lot of searching and personal development work started hearing about Hoffman through, actually, some pretty abnormal avenues through a trade group that I'm not part of. But the empathy part was a big challenge. And even in my pre process paperwork. As I thought about it. That was really the deal. And I didn't... I just didn't know why. If that makes sense. You know, why am I
alone? Who were you at lacking empathy for your kids, your wife describe a little bit about that? What I noticed Is it was it was all of those people. What did that look like, I guess? Like a kid would, my son would fall down. He's an active guy he's 11 now, But, he would fall down and and get hurt, get a get a cut and I would look at him and I would notice he was hurt, you know, a bit, and my wife would come by and look at me and say, pick him up. What what are you doing
just standing there? And I'm like, what, what am I supposed to do? It would show up in ways like that? I just felt that I genuinely did not care for other people. I guess that's moment moment of transparency there, Drew, but it it was the honest truth. I would see people, and I would want to care for them. My wife. Yeah. That sounds sad. What you're saying. That would kinda be the end. And so of course, that led to being alone and to unfulfilled relationships, and, you know, that extended
into work as well. Of course, it did. But I didn't know why. So going on the journey of finding out why through counseling and other, you know, personal development tools, books and meditation and on down the line. And so like, you tell me about if it created a disconnection in your parenting. I'm imagining... That also didn't work well in your married life? No. It wasn't working well at all, but as I've come to realize now
what had had essentially happened. The many times we marry our parents, and my wife had agreed to do just that, to marry the person that her father was to her through me. She just found another 1. And I was plenty willing to to play that role, even though he's a much more empathetic fellow than I was at the time. So we had really just grown a apart, been together a long time we're pretty young when we got married. She was 20. I was 21. You know, just kids starting out, and
you certainly don't know yourself very well. At that point, I didn't and, you know, certainly don't know anybody else at that point very well. So the way we went on that journey, but it just wasn't working. We live separate lives under the same roof just getting through life, Of course, we're growing a business for for years, so that was a perfect American culture excuse to just be busy and wait for happiness, happiness as a someday, doctrine. So
you hear about it. And is it true that you were sharing earlier that you were deciding who was gonna go first and and you you got the nod, and then you said to her if it works, and you can go to if not, I guess it was worth a try. Definitely. Like I said, the 1, you know, the 1 with the bigger challenges or... I I guess I would say I hit bottom first, thankfully. It got pretty bad for me in 20 19 in the fall of 20 19 just in my personal life and my view of myself.
All the things I was just describing becoming more magnified to where life was. Was just very frustrating, even though I didn't feel like I would ever act on it. I really wish that I could could cease living as Ec totally said I really felt I could no longer live with myself. So really started getting serious about personal development and finding the answer to just happiness. I think just the very basic. Quest that we all have. Just why can't
I be happy right now right here. So I had been doing a lot of that work and fast forward to end of 21, Had decided that 22 was going to be a big year of just focusing on more personal development and our family, healing our family, and that's when I learned of a friend who had been through Hoffman a hoffman graduate and
seeking in that way. So when I presented it to my wife, I said, hey, I'm gonna go to Hoffman, but I think this is a pattern of mine of being pretty selfish, and I've been doing all this work. Taking all this time away to heal our family, would you like to go first? So that's how that came up. You know, she's a pretty wonderful lady. She's somehow in a really kind way said, well, you know, I feel that maybe it would me most... Valuable to all of us if you went ahead and went first, and we'll
see how that goes. And I'd be happy to go, but valuable In a kind way, she was basically like, look. You're the 1 that got the biggest challenges. Why don't you go face it first. So we didn't really had no idea what was gonna happen. Just went in with the open arms. So those open arms go into the process, take us there. You you bring your struggles of disconnection of loneliness of unhappiness. And the process begins. You've done your paperwork. You're sitting in your seat, it starts,
take us to your process. How was it? What is there a moment in time even? Yeah. Well, many. So from the first day of the process, I knew that it was going to be a difficult but worthwhile journey. And I knew that I was in the right place and even more than that, I knew that I was safe. I was very afraid to do the work. As we rolled through the process and got into some of the expression work, especially, I realized that I had a lot of quite a lot of anger, and it was...
It was... I would call it a righteous anger. It was okay to have anger, but it was very misplaced. Who was placed directly on myself, and then on my parents, and I just had never had the tools to realize where where that should be actually directed that it was that it was training that it was pattern and as we went through all the different cycles of transformation and awareness especially and then going into expression, it just started unfolding,
peeling like an onion. And so after day 2, all of a sudden I really had a felt sense that the reason I didn't have empathy for others, and therefore compassion, is is that that was the piece that was missing for myself first and it's an ironic thing about being someone that considers himself quite selfish. It's that your self view is so small that all you can see is yourself.
And that's what I started to realize. I had always thought my whole life that I was inherently bad and that goodness had to be earned at the end of day 2 in the process, that paradigm had completely flipped, and I realized that that was just simply not true in my experience that I was inherently good, and all of the patterns in and learn behaviors that I had taken on to to try to make my way in the world, those were the false
false realities that I was living in. So I think as many of us speak about the process is about undoing to come back to home. And as I was reviewing my notes getting ready for our time together, Drew, that was by the end of day 2, I realized that my whole philosophy on love and how we work what had had just been backward my whole life. And you definitely can't give what you don't have. I could not, so there was no way for me to have empathy or compassion for anybody else because I hated myself.
And if hate is what I have, then hate is what I have to give. It's all I have to give. That was a big turning point and so very thankful that it happened early on in the process, and it's still happening. You know, the process was recent for me not long ago. So just a month. I think we're a month. Yeah. Ryan, take us to your childhood. What you've referenced your parents briefly But what did you come to terms with about your upbringing through the work in the process?
Well, I was raised in a conservative evangelical, Christian home. We were part of a denomination called Wesley. And the way I received that religion was that, I was born of in nature. That was what it meant to be human.
I was bad and that my hope through salvation and Jesus believing in him dying on the cross for our sins was was that I could be made whole through that through accepting that I was born evil as everybody is and that the world is a fallen in place and that through Jesus, there Would be hope that at the end of my life, when I died, I would I would then go to heaven instead of going to hell, very common and can be very valuable. I just wanna speak from my experience.
This is how I received it. So Yeah. Going along, you know, cruising along as a little guy going up on a farm in northern Idaho home, wanting to be good. The youngest of 4 boys. I wanna do great. I wanna make my parents happy, make god happy, not go to hell, and you know, I just lived under that paradigm, I'm all growing up. And even at the process, many would to ask, didn't that seem strange to you that you're this bad person to which I realized no. It didn't seem strange, It was all I knew.
It was actually just all I knew. If it's all that I know how can it seem strange if my parents, they didn't, but if my parents beat me every night, how would I think it's strange. It's all I know. You know, the beauty of belief systems in my experience is it can lead back to the truth.
And in this case, it did because the way I received this belief system didn't work in my life because I could never earn it no matter how part I worked or, you know, how many times I re received Christ into my heart and and all of the aspects of this specific religion. It just didn't really seem to work. Life was evidence that it wasn't working. My mental state was evidence that it wasn't working.
My my personal life, my spiritual life was a disaster wasn't if I wanted to end my life, I was missing something. So I'm so thankful for that path because it brought me to the place of figuring out what the truth actually is. The pain pushes until a greater vision pulls on 1 side once. So that's what it was like. Growing up, be good, do good, and someday you'll make it, and you'll be safe. Common, I think. I don't think I'm alone.
Ryan, what were some things that reflected some of that limited view about being bad and the strict rules around how you had to be in the world. Yeah. So, you know, it showed up in a lot of ways. 1 of the things, of course as we learn through Hoffman is you're young. Your young life kind of pre 12 year old where you're really just seeking love and acceptance, very impression. That's when it showed up for
me. Remember 1 time specifically, and and as it related to even parts of the process, it's probably in fifth grade, we we had a band teacher as rural school. We always got a new band teacher every year because nobody wanted to teach out there. And This fellow was a wonderful guy. He had the great idea that we were gonna have in band 1 day, Duke jive day. He called it. And Duke Drive Dave meant, you could bring in your
favorite tape. You know, this was in the eighties, bring in your favorite tape, and he play some of your favorite songs. And we would all have a dance at school. You know, it's just kind of pre junior high dance, days, but I knew that dancing wasn't allowed because, you know, it led to I don't know. Who knows. What it actually was supposed to lead to. It was just a sin. You weren't supposed to dan dance because it led to having sex, I suppose.
Anyway, I, a fifth grader, and knew I wasn't supposed to dance, but all my friends were there. So when it was time to listen to music and have... Fun, like, kids would. I just couldn't do it. I just froze and just broke down sobbing, uncontrollably Ironically, though, as I said earlier about being thankful for all that struggle, that was probably the first time in my life, where somebody showed me unconditional love. So
this was a scene. You know, it was like, That was a a tall kid and and stood out in the class, and, you know, so here's this giant kid crying. Are all eyes on you as you're crying. Oh... Of course. Everybody. You know? Come on. Hey, Ryan. Come on join in, you know, literally physically, like, trying to pull me out on the dance floor and I just... Again, locked up. I'm balling with, you know, crying beg gets crying. It gets worse and worse and worse and eventually.
You know, and, like, hyper and this band teacher pulls me outside, and it was in a little modular trailer in the back steps we sit down and I think he was pretty confused of somehow he had triggered me in that way. And he was just so incredibly kind. Just show compassion thinking back through a lot of work that went on in the process of going back to childhood, that was 1 of the very
very few times. It was shown, like, absolute compassion and just unconditional love from this guy who was actually very unacceptable in our society. So that was 1 event that definitely stuck with me. Of course, I did must up dancing later in life when I was heavily intoxicated, and even once at my wedding, but Yeah. It was revoked, you know, So it wasn't something that that you could do, which some of the beautiful work of the process just going back to childhood and realizing the
value of play. So it was a beautiful journey, and I think that, even the impact that had on me for many years, I was embarrassed of how big of an impact this this dance stage J Jive day had on me because it wasn't that big of a deal to most other people. But as I'm sharing today, it's just my experienced. It's how I experienced it. And it was crushing to me. Had a huge impact on my life for a number of years.
So it sounds like it had a kind of a double w in the sense that it was painful in the moment. And then as you grew, the breakdown became painful and shaming for the huge scene it caused. Is that right? Absolutely. Yeah. That's the that's the power of shame sadly, that's how shame works. Shame beg gets shame. It's a part of the vicious cycle.
You're ashamed to be doing something against your parents will, then you're ashamed for not doing something to be accepted by your friends, you're denying your nature to, you know, I'm denying my nature to just have fun and jump around. My brain laid down the same.
Neuro pathways that fun was bad and I was bad because I wanted to have fun and be accept did with this group of other people that were bad, which was everybody else in the world that didn't go to church with me because, you know, none of those kids did. So, Ryan take us to your process and people know that fun is part of the week. What happened for you when fun started to be integrated into the... And this is in quotes into the work of the week.
What was that like for you? Take us there, Well, immediately, it was sheer terror, of course, because the 44 years of training leading up to that point was still there. Even though there were new ways of being being opened up right in front of me, but very shortly, number 1, I realized that I wasn't alone. Other people had been traumatized by childhood experiences. I wasn't alone and most importantly, I wasn't bad, and I was already accepted, that it never really was about dancing.
It never really was about that. Say more there. It wasn't about dancing? No, Of course, not. Even back in the in the trailer in in fifth grade, it was just about being known, being loved, and joining in, just being apart. Right? So the same challenges were there. Was 44 year old guy getting ready to walk into the deep circle of death as it felt in my, you know, my mind, my intellect and my emotional, side or freaking it out, but my body didn't care. Been waiting too long to just have fun.
So It never was about dancing. It was about all these other factors going on. I'd love that. My body didn't care. My body didn't care about, of the past. It wanted to both belong. It wanted to express itself. So what happened as you stepped into that circle? You know what's amazing is the main thing that happened is just acceptance.
All of the doing, all the building up of those patterns of fear shame and Guilt and just started to dissolve as, you know, 31 of us there just Laughed and cheered each other on and imitate each other's goofy dance moves and, yeah, it didn't care. For that moment, we all went back to, you know, being 9 year old kids dancing in a circle and getting in touch with, that inner child and bringing the inner child into the the current present moment and just enjoying it. Was really beautiful.
Don't totally really remember exactly what happened, but Most importantly, it did happen, and real high fat and had a great time and was then able to encourage others to take that courageous step forward and be a kid who were meant to be. And other moments in your week, Ryan as you as the week war on past date 2? Yeah. There's another time. Where I truly was able to forgive my parents, that part I didn't know how that was gonna pan
out. I think my gut knew or spirit that you know, forgiveness is is mandatory for healing.
And at first, I felt very frustrated, that I'd been taught this negative belief system and of course, there was a lot of mis directed anger there toward toward my parents themselves, but as I went through the process, and I was able to see my parents as un children longing for the same love and acceptance that I was longing for on the Duke jive Dance day and at Hoffman, I could see that we weren't any different.
So I I just couldn't blame them anymore and I could actually have compassion and I could actually have empathy for that. And with them and in the mind's, if it will, you know, come right alongside them and embody that experience
as kids. So learning to forgive my parents, forgiving them there and then, being able to, we recently just came from visiting my parents and just being able to tell them I love them, I was pretty powerful and came actually mean it instead of saying it out of duty so that, you know, they didn't feel bad, but just mean it from the bottom of my soul. I love you. Yeah. It's wonderful. Ryan, how do you feel as you and you talk about forgiving your parents? I feel incredibly happy.
Even though if they're still pain there because haven't forgotten. I just have no an toward them and that was a gigantic step. It was so beautiful to just pull them and say, I love you. I love you. Thank you. And that's that's a pretty huge gift. Pretty huge 1. So Ryan, the... Well, 1, I'm just grateful for your honesty for your vulnerability. There's a raw to it, It sounds like. Is that true?
It's definitely true to take an entire structure a whole way of being for my whole entire life and discover that love was waiting there all the time is very powerful. Obviously, even as I speak about it now, Yeah. I feel vulnerable, and I feel emotional about it, but I think as someone said, tears are just fully expressed emotions, and it's it's from just pure bliss and happiness now. It's like seeing something that can't be unseen.
Now I've seen how powerful love is and that love is a a birthright for myself and for everybody else and love is waiting there at home, just just write inside us inside me whenever I'm ready to come home to it. So, Ryan, a a lot of people might question the relationship between the childhood work that we do in the process. Which is certainly part of the process.
And life post process with a job and kids, and a marriage and all the stress that life creates that don't relate to childhood, so how was it for you? Post process. This, Ryan, miles heads back out into the world. What was it like for you? Thankfully, what is it like? Is like nothing I've experienced before. The work that I did in the process was the most valuable work of my life. When I say that, it's because this way of being never existed for me.
Living authentically out of love with self compassion. I I literally thought I had to wait until the end of my life. For that to be a reality. You know, as as we say, it's very likely that the life you built before the process will still be there when you get out, that is true, and that's okay, and that's where the self compassion piece is so valuable that I am a human living in, a world full of humans and the thousands and thousands of decisions I made before the process.
Based out of fear and anxiety and guilt and shame and hopelessness still have impact thankfully, I wasn't all bad. You know, there's probably some sad start sad parts in the story and, you know, that's the beauty of the journey. But lots of things were going right. I just couldn't see them. I didn't have the eyes to see them pre process. Life was a contradiction to the lie that I was living in my in my thoughts and in my emotions, just all disconnected. As a disconnected quad.
So post process, every single part of my life has changed experiential. And what I mean is, of course, I still have a business and responsibility to my employees I still have responsibility to my community to take care of their needs in that way. So that capacity is still there, but all the pain and the hard work has also allowed me a bit of freedom of time to do this personal work. Spending time with my family and goof off and camping and dance parties, and we've got back from a big rough trip,
I could not overstate this anymore. It is a life. I have never even dreamed of experiencing. And every morning I wake up, and I just say, well, I wonder what happens today. We're gonna find out how this shows up today. And it does. When you're looking for it Love is everywhere, who's talking with a customer on our front counter, a few days ago and Hoffman came up, this person does addiction recovery work locally, and she was just
amazed. We work in auto repair, so it's not generally a heartfelt industry, stereotypical typically. So she was just really amazed that that we cared about doing work on on self love and compassion and that anybody in that industry would care about what I call real things. I don't know the the things that actually matter, the things going on inside of me and inside of
everybody else. So I don't know where it's going, and I also don't care where it's going because I am happy right now and you know, that was the goal was to come home. Ryan, that... That's a a level of surrender that, I mean, I have to admire, how do you get to that place of waking up in the morning I wonder what's gonna happen today and letting go of not knowing where it's going. How do you how do you get how'd you get there? What's that like to be there? Well, I only have my experience.
How I got there is life sucked so bad. The life that I created that I didn't want to exist in it anymore. And the beauty about realizing in our trade group, there's just saying good news it's your fault. And so much of my life. My discomfort, my anxiety, my shame, my guilt, all the stuff that I was carrying was my choice. The only way I was able to get there was through the opportunity to step back, like an experience like Kaufman, and say, oh, my gosh. I get to choose right now.
I get to choose. I can be happy right now. There will never be a better time than right now to be happy. I think the gift of all the suffering that I created in my life is what gave me the motivation to move forward. I think we move forward when the fear of the unknown is less than the fear of staying where you are. That's when I moved forward. Like, I don't care what's ahead. III do not care. Because I know what it was behind me, and that was hell. Ironically, that was the hell I had created.
I didn't have to wait to go to hell. I made 1. So so then I can un uncheck it. That's the beautiful work of Hoffman. It's coming home. The answer is within me. I didn't need to go anywhere or do anything. It's... It's just a needed the opportunity to come back home. And realize I'm okay. Ryan, you referenced that at the beginning, and I wanna circle back because you said I knew I was safe at Hoffman. And so I guess I just wanna ask,
how did you know that? How did you come to trust that the experience was a safe 1 for you. I think there's certain people that you know that you can trust Maybe that's a loaded question, Drew. Number 1, I felt safe because you told me, I was safe. Number 2, I think we're born with a sense of if we're if we're listening, life will tell us a lot of things and it just felt safe. I... I mean, I had a lot of fear going into it. It's not hard to stereotype that
situation. I'm a farm boy from Northern Idaho going to a spiritual retreat in San Francisco. There's a lot of lot of challenges in that 1 sentence. I think just the energy of of spirit being in that place of love of careful attention to our needs as we were as we were there. I think also is just so broken, that I just felt like it didn't have anything to lose and and maybe I felt that right away because that's what I was looking for with safety
Ryan. What's it like, to reflect on, well, I guess, your your childhood? Your life before the process your life in the process, and then your life outside after the process. What's that like for you here in this moment? It's a it's a complex mechanism. I'm a nerd, I'm recovering, Gram 1. So you know, of course, I wanna answer that
correctly, Drew. What it's like is a new way of being, you know, b do have is a, good philosophy, and it's the most beautiful thing because sometimes, sometimes I can forget and get busy and pattern returns, of course, daily, and, you know, old ways of being come in and and self doubt comes up. But so very quickly, I keep saying coming home, but that's what it feels like. It feels like being on a journey where I never fit in, that was never accepted Nobody understood. Nobody cared.
And by nobody I I mean myself as well. All the challenges started at home and me. And I was a child, I couldn't choose, you know, in lifetime 1, I couldn't choose. Just was accepting doing what I could to get love. But in lifetime too as an adult, that as my adult emotional self, I can choose. So it is like the best thing ever it is like if we had more people making this choice the world would be a very wonderful place. And I see
that more now. It's like, I I now have the the eyes to see that in the rest of humanity as well and to draw that out. It's kind of what it's like. Ryan, I'm smiling. I'm am grateful for you for this conversation. Thank you. Thank you, Drew. I appreciate the chance to share. And that brings the conversation.
With Ryan to a close, and as it ended, I do what I always do at the end of a recording is I pushed stop recording, and then Ryan started spontaneously reflecting on why he did the interview and how it was such a moving experience for him, and I said, wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. I went back, pushed record, and here's what he had to say. Yeah. Why do it? You know, why do the podcast? Because doing the podcast is loaded with pattern as well?
Self doubt chain, self criticism, all of those things came into play ego, would I do this so that someone would think it was important. I had to answer a lot of those questions because those was very fear based answers that first came up. But number 1, I decided that the reason I would do it is because it's a part of my healing journey. And even though I care very deeply for others, I do understand that I have to care for myself first.
And I knew that it would push me into a place of discomfort, which is where healing happens. Number 2, I don't wanna waste the pain. The pain of my journey is too good to waste and we just scratched the surface of
it today in this podcast. And I really feel like there are many other people that are having the same experiences that I did and I had to overcome those fears of patterns of, you know, feeling special or wanting to be wanted and just put that aside and say, hey, this is my journey and trust the the process of sharing it. So it was valuable work to be able to come on and face the dragons and just move forward in this new way of being. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My
name is Liza And Grass. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Ras Rossi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hop institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to hop institute dot org.