My guest today is Felipe Jane. Felipe is a psychiatrist a researcher, a neuroscientist scientist, a professor at Harvard Medical school. The list goes on and on. Tell you what. What I'm most struck by is not just his accomplishments, but his ability to be both macro and micro to be both spirit led and science led and to both embody and witness.
In this episode share some transformational moments in his life that guided him to develop, science backed guided imagery techniques that have helped many people reduce stress and increase happiness. Tree is an embodiment of presence in of being, and he is a treat to share space with. I hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome to Lu everyday radius. A podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Sharon Moore, and I'm 1
of your hosts. And on this podcast, we talked to Hoffman graduates about how their courageous journey inward impacted their personal lives, but also how it impacted their community and the world at large. So tune in and listen in and hear how our graduates authentic selves, how their love, how their spirits are making a positive impact on our world today. In other words, get to know their loves everyday radius Alright, Felipe, thank you for being on the
show. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. You know, I was curious, how did Hoffman come into your life? Well, I have a very close family friend who had been involved with Hoffman for many years and he always had recommended to me that at when the time felt right for me, that it was something that he would like to encourage me to do. And then at 1 point, how did you know it was the right time? So a lot was going wrong at that time. A lot was going right
yeah. The lot was going wrong, both simultaneously. And I realized that I really needed to look at things from a different perspective, and I needed to take a break. I needed to take time away from where I was, which was at Harvard Medical School at the time. I was 30 year student actually doing a year of a research fellowship. And my emotional life just wasn't working. I was very driven. I was very ambitious. But, relationships with significant others were particular challenge.
And I just knew that I needed some way of looking at things that would help me. That's so interesting. I I don't know how long between these conversations that you had with this family member and when you got to this moment. But for me, I had a similar situation where I had heard about the process, and I kinda put in my back pocket for this moment in life when I don't know if it's... I'll feel that it is right or that I'll have the courage to go to that depth. It's probably
some version of com... Of a combination. But I too kept in my back pocket for at least a decade until that time felt right. Well, for me, it was about when I was 25 years old, which for men is about the time that their frontal lobes mature. That that brain transmission really comes together. That's a prime time to be able to do something like the process and to be able to benefit from it when when those circuits have big become my and neuro
transmission is is working really well. And you also have more of a sense of who you are and what your emotional life is like and how things are going. You've had your chance to to explore how life will be for you on your own, and then you see... Well, whether you need it... Is it some additional help? And if you have the courage, you go and get it. So you were, 25 years old when you took the process. Right. That's that's amazing. I was 40. So I guess it took me a little bit longer
to to figure that out. And now something that I found very interesting in our previous conversation is that there seems to be a thorough line in your life. And that is meditation. Can you tell me more about that? Sounds like that was in your life from from early childhood days? Yeah. Absolutely. So meditation has been central to my entire experience really of life. My parents both lived in meditation Os under the guidance of different teachers.
My mother actually lifted in Os in Los Angeles and my father in India and then traveling around the globe with his teacher. And at some point, they decided for themselves that the monastic life was not for them. And I think that was the time that they met each other. And I understand my dad fell from my mom that created some kind of scandal, within the the spiritual community he was involved with, but, they left their respective paths to form a new 1. And got married,
started having kids. I was number 2 out the door. And so as I grew up, there was... There were always pictures, for example, of Indian guru on the walls, which were quite... Embarrassing for my siblings and myself, growing up in a, rural, white neighborhood, I should mention my parents also, my father was from India end of relatively dark skin, and then my mother of Portuguese background,
in very fair skin. So we were somewhere in the middle and growing up in a white neighborhood, and we had this very different experience of of life, both from, that standpoint of meditation as well as, simply our ethnic background. And so in regards to the meditation, was it a household activity? Was that, like, family meditation time? How how was... What was that like?
Well, 1 of the earlier things I observed was my mom teaching yoga and meditation classes to prenatal women, so women who are who were pregnant and who are looking for ways to relax and to stretch. And then also observing my mom, develop programs for older adults within a nursing facility that she worked as an activities coordinator. And then on my dad's side, it was a very personal practice for him. Whenever he, came home because he traveled a lot for his work.
He would meditate and spend a lot of time in his room as well doing all kinds of various yoga poses in con ending with about 30 to 40 minutes of meditation. And he also brought us to a meditation Os in the Bay area where we could go and be a part of a community and learn to meditate under the guidance of the teacher there. Did you ever rebel against this? I can say that it didn't quite appeal to me until I was about 13 or 14.
That's when it really started to sync home and that it became something that for me was a source of solace, a source of refuge. And even a source of opening of of of feeling, different feelings. So feelings that I hadn't necessarily experienced as much previously, like, peace or a deeper compassion. And and so it it really opened me up and enabled me to develop different aspects of my personality. At age 13.
Well, yeah. Well that was the initial, kind opening experience experience of being really connected to something larger than myself within meditation. And then that unfolded over time, and I went to meditation centers and meditation, os during my summers, during high school, and then even into college. And so it was a really important and central of practice activity community from me. Wow. And it's still something that is central in your life. Correct?
Well so now it's it's really changed and transformed in inform, and it is still central. So the kind of meditation that I did when I was growing up was very much focused on me. Was very much focused on my mental processes how I've viewed the world, my sensations, even my sense of connection with others or with nature. But from my own perspective, from the perspective of my own mind.
And now meditation for me has shifted and it's become a way in which I begin to embody others in which I begin to embody nature. And to feel connected to others by trying to grasp more and more their perspectives on life. Their the experiences of life and similarly to attempt to imagine systems, systems within... Society systems within nature, systems within our universe and how those systems come together and form a unity, and then how I exist within that. So in a way, kind of looking back at
myself from that... Those larger perspectives. Do you get insights about... The world or people in your life or as you say the systems or broken systems that exist, and what do you do with those insights when they come? Well, absolutely. So it helps me in so many ways. I'd say the most basic way. So I'm married. I have 2 children And, as I'm raising my kids, there are times when I get frustrated or I get angry about things, for example, the kids are.
Taking too long, Right. Too long from my perspective to brush their teeth and get their pajamas and go to bed, and I can become irritated in that kind of situation as the night drags on, and there are other things that... I have to do.
So 1 of the things that the meditation does for me is it helps me to better put myself, in my kid's shoes within those moments and what my kids experience of life is like what their mind is like what they're bringing to that moment and how they're observing things. And so it really does help to to soften me and to to react in a way that that is more open to them, not necessarily. Discarding all limits or allowing them to run the show. But to have my perspective be
more informed by them. And, you know, I developed this this set of techniques really because I was interested in in this. As I as I had mentioned at the very beginning, you know, I did the process because of...
Relationships and gaining greater insight into relationships. Since I develop these meditations as well that I am describing to you in order to to really gain greater knowledge and connectedness within relationships And I did so on the basis of, psychotherapy or talk therapy principles I was learning in my psychiatry residency, and then in some ways also informed by some of my process experiences, and then also informed by my meditation background, and my my long experience with
meditation. So all of these came together. And within this, it it, you know, it can just... It continues to help me. Right? I continue to see. Okay. So here are the the can hear here are my limitations. You could say the limitations of my ego, Right, which I would describe as this fight flight system developed by evolution over the course of millions of years of evolution that has a particular function, particular purpose in this by very focused on doing and on surviving.
And to a certain extent, is focused on relationships and empathy within relationships and understanding them. But I I think it's clear from both the state of our world as well as everyone's experiences that this system sometimes breaks down, we have difficulty. But with those em emphatic processes. And so this is a way that helps me, it's a way that teaches me within that very intimate relationship I have with my children or my wife.
Now, within the work setting, trying to, imagine the perspectives of others, for example, within, my research group or within my clinical practice, and to understand how they're experiencing things and how they're viewing me and how our interactions have this back and forth play, or within the context of nature, really understanding we're experiencing more of how I'm connected with nature, which is an an experience that you could say goes beyond that sense of a personal
sell for the personal history, personal identity, and enters a space that's it's not and not being, but it's... You could say an ind being or as as Lau describes in the Did da cheng an ancient Chinese text that water that flows underground that you can't see, but that nourish is the ground it's like a connection with that state of deeper being. The you said you developed a set of techniques. These techniques you do yourself, and this is part of the,
impact of it. And then you also offer this to, you know, you said you have... You see patients. You're also a professor and a researcher and a neuroscientist scientist. Are these techniques also offered to people in your path in any of those avenues?
Absolutely. So I have research grants right now from the National Institutes of Health, the National Institute on the aging to offer these techniques and practices within the research setting in order to better refine them and adapt them for older adults, who are in a situation of extremely high stress.
Their lives have often taken a left turn, you could say because a relative has become ill with dementia, which is a chronic and progressive syndrome of memory loss and behavioral disturbances where people progressively forget facts in their lives, people in their lives and also how to do the kinds of things that they needed to do in order to take care of themselves. So that's when area in which I teach
these techniques. And actually, we have some very promising data that has been now published just this year in 20 22 in the psychological journals, as well as I teach these techniques 1 on 1 within the setting of my clinical practice with some of the patients with whom I not only prescribe medications for conditions such as, depressive disorders or anxiety disorders or post traumatic stress, etcetera. But for whom I also do psychotherapy.
And so within the setting of psychotherapy, I will also incorporate some of these techniques. And the people you see in your clinical practice. Are they... There a a specific... I think when when you were... We were talking earlier, you mentioned, these are people who have been resistant. To other medications and techniques. Right? And that's when you start to work with them? Often that's the case. So I work at...
The Massachusetts General hospital, which is a tertiary hospital, meaning that it's a place that people get referred by primary care clinicians or by psychiatrists in the community when their treatments are not working. And so that's the normal pathway by which a patient may come to me. And how do you especially somebody who's so empathetic? I can tell just by talking to you? How you keep yourself healthy? I can tell you care so much? I can tell you're living a life of doing good.
And here you work with this audience or even the other audience you mentioned, which is the caregivers, the family caregivers. How do you care for yourself as you continue to have such a positive impact and be in service to these people? So that's the that's the easy thing for me because within any of these clinical encounters with patients, there's a connection that forms a connection between me and them, and more often than not, we are able to make progress, and we're able to help
them. And that's a wonderful and inspiring journey to be a part of is to see someone who, for example, had to stop school or take a pause from school because their depression was so bad and then to be able to get them onto the right track where they can think about re engaging and ultimately, re engage or someone who's having difficulties with work, And even if we can't cure them or heal people all the way, we often can make some small contribution. And those small contributions are essential.
Even if someone improves by 5 or 10 percent, that's something that they didn't have before. And so I find my work to be extremely re rewarding and to be extremely fulfilling. I feel like that's a there's a there's a wise nugget in there for all of us. I think in today's world, unless it's a quick fix. Or if it's from 0 to a hundred, we sometimes forget that those incremental steps along the way are so important that 05:10 percent you didn't have that the other day. That's worth celebrating.
I think that's a really, really good reminder for us. Yeah. It's definitely important for myself as well and and having self compassion for those moments that I do become stressed out. Or worried about any range of things, whether it be my patients in the hospital or it be about my... Research grants or studies or my kids and what's going on with my kids? Well, it's interesting because you say that's...
The easy part. And then when we break that down, what I learned is that there's there's something in you that is able to see the the 5 to 10 percent movement and pause and celebrate that versus the 90 percent remaining theoretically. Right? So it's it's it's kind of like glass half full to to way overs simplify. But what I'm seeing is somebody who knows how to honor and appreciate the incremental movement and so much so that to you, that's the inspiring part, and that's the quote unquote
easy part. I think that's because you... Frankly, we look at the wrong things in our life. We constantly... Look at how we're doing based on how our work is going, how people are reacting to us or how they're treating us, and our own subjective, measures of success, objective measures, bank account, close, whatever it may be, whatever is our measure. And that's absolutely backwards. When you learn to pay attention to being to that basic facility of existing.
Everything really does appear as a newness as a creation from nothingness, and if you really think about it about what we are at route. You know, from the physics standpoint, we are... You could say at the... At our current level of understanding we are these subatomic particles, these quirks, moving around at nearly the speed of light. More than 300000 kilometers per second.
Right? And that's making us up and we're connected with everything else around us within a unit fabric, you could say of existence and which I believe human beings experience as being as as existing. Is that very sense of simply observing of listening, of feeling.
And it's what many people refer to as mindfulness of being with what is within that moment, and really learning to pay attention to being for me, you know, has been transformative, but it's it's not just being, it's being in the context of shifting perspectives to incorporate others.
Into that being. So trying to to create both within myself, a better you could say mental understanding of of where I am of what I am of how I'm connected to others of how their minds are going and responding to my mind of what I'm perceiving and what they're perceiving. And so it's this back and forth that it's actually very refreshing. And what it's happened for me over the course of of my years of doing this. So You know, I'm
I'm 44 now. So you could have been meditating for 30 years, and I began to develop the current techniques that I've been working with. About 10:12 years ago. And so what's happened for me is that that sensation of being has really become primary within my mind. And I get pulled out of it by stress. I get pulled out of it by, you know, all of the day to day things that I have to do as a father as a researcher scientist a clinician.
And so forth. And then I return back to that, And and then everything becomes magical. You know, everything becomes new. And so so that's a very refreshing experience. Well, yeah. III think not only have you been meditating for over 30 years, but You have this very... I don't know if I think it's unique, balance of being a scientist.
Also, So in a way you're able to look at it through the lens of science of the tiny bits and pieces that create the whole system that create the whole feeling and an expression of how you do this so naturally in my opinion is you talking about celebrating the 5 to 10 percent, the movement. That that... That's when III really understood when you said that, wow. Something magical is here for somebody to to really celebrate that movement and say that's the easy part.
That's what makes my my work rewarding. And boom, then you opened up into where that comes from. And if that isn't a for a lack of better term quote unquote sales pitch for meditation, You know, again, in the practical sense, I think there's something very beautiful about that. Yeah. Well, and what what... That brings to mind for me as well as that 1 of my practices that I do when I wake up in the morning is as I I'll get out of bed.
And just very slowly and gently, move my wrists, move my hands in a circle. And as I'm doing so, just remember where these hands come from. The the millions of years of evolution that make this movement possible, the ability of the brain, to communicate with the wrists. And then that... Just that basic ability, just being able to move the wrists.
Becomes a celebration, becomes something that it's actually deeply meaningful, deeply meaningful as in it took this universe 14000000000 years to create that you know, and it created that because it likes it. You know? That's that's my... Right. That's my own prospect perspective. On it. Is that, you know, that the universe likes creating. He likes this, you know, mister this movement this ability to do things, ability to to make things. And so that that becomes a a beautiful experience.
You said your meditation has transformed from my perspective to the perspective of others and nature and systems, And here again is a is an an expression of that. You move your wrists. From your perspective, it's wow. My brain is telling my wrists to do something and oh, there you go, it did it in the physical space. But then you also inter weave the macro level millions of years of evolution has gone... Have gone into this.
So once again, it's that both of those perspectives showing up in your daily practice. Correct. And, you know, I think... We just don't take advantage of all of this knowledge that we have enough. You know, science for so many people. It's like this scary distant thing that's outside of them. You know, it's... These scientists over there are coming up with discoveries and, you know, isn't that so cool. But it's not how we experience science. It doesn't become a part of ourselves our our
day to day or... And it has so much to contribute even to the sense that, like, we're valuable. You know, we're we're connected Were the were these incredible creations whether you wanna say that it's intentional or whether you wanna say that it's due to the mystery of nature. I don't think that really matters.
It does certainly doesn't matter at the level of being at the level of being, it's simply that that truth of what is going on, what is existing what has been manifested, You could say over the course of all these years and then ultimately, what will change form, and we'll see as to exist. Right? As as another aspect of that of that time dimension. Like you said, it likes to create it likes to change. This is what will keep happening. So now you said you took the process when you were 25.
I know that wasn't yesterday, but I'm curious if you can, remember was there a pivotal moment? Was there 1 of those magical moments that still lives with you today in your life? Well, absolutely. And there were several magic moments in the process.
But when that, I remember as being particularly transformative for me something that I still remember to this day was an exercise in which we were standing And we were imagining our spiritual selves in front of us, and our emotional child emotional self on 1 side and intellect on the other side and having them converse with each other and 1 of the things that I noticed was that my emotional self was wonderful and beautiful in a way and fun in a way that I had never experienced
it. It was like it. It felt like it was the best part of my personality. You know like it was like, I was It was amazing to just experience the magic of this of this child. It could be who was expressive who was joyful who was playful, and what was going on was that my intellect? I could just really see that my intellect was shutting it up. You know, it's basically dominating and saying, no. We've gotta do this. We've gotta do this. We've gotta do this. We've gotta do this. You know, this is the
right way to do things. This is the right way to do things and just all of this conditioning. And it was that conditioning that got me to where I was and, you know, I was highly successful. But I was very inhibited in my relationships. And I think also just being able to have the emotional child and intellect, converse and emotional child stand up for herself and say you know what? I'm good. I'm wonderful. And then the intellect, and, I could see just dom.
And I think what enabled me to really see this was was that matt light of the spiritual self that light really defining the characteristics of these various parts of myself And it was really this, this shifting of perspectives into different aspects of my own self that I then brought forth within my own research as I started to learn more about psychotherapy, talk therapy and very basic principles of how we understand ourselves and how we understand other people.
And to be able to shift perspectives better into them, Right? Which is, also another thing that we did in the process was, imagining our parents as children, for example, which was which is also very beneficial for me. That imaginative process.
I was able to adapt, adapt and to utilize to help people within some of their present moment relationships and me within my own present moment relationships and even to adapt that to to nature and imagining how you could say in quotes, nature experiences things or you know, me shifting within into to nature to to embody or experience various characteristics, for example, of, you know, a natural place
that I've... That I visited, like, the woods, the trees, the earth, the blue sky, and to really embody all of that, and within myself. So the process in those techniques of imagery and the perspective shifts have absolutely been foundational for me and, and I can definitely say that my relationship with my wife who's, you know, wonderful and open and enthusiastic person.
You know, absolutely was made possible by the emotional liberation, the emotional freedom within the process so that I could live more fully and and and experience greater dimensions of myself and of her and have... Greater permission for those dimensions of self within our experiences. Yeah. There is a theme of these shifts that happen in your life. And this clearly is 1 of them. And I was gonna ask, so is your emotional self still free in your life, but clearly, it is.
Certainly sounds like your emotional self has maintained its seat at the table for most of your life. Absolutely. So... That's a something that I've grown into more and more over the years, and there's certainly still work to be done. And I'm very grateful for the work that the process did initiate in me in that regard, Wow, beautiful. To think that the process initiates shift transformation. And then and then it's on you and now you get to look and see what
you've done with it. You have this relationship with your wife. You have relationship with your kids, relationships, period, connection to nature, the work that you do, etcetera, etcetera. So it's It's beautiful to think of, where these things started.
Just to to bring this to a kind of tangible clothes, these techniques that you've been speaking of that incorporates so much of your knowledge and your and your training, and and just the 30 years plus of meditation, been They are available to not just your patients that are in the clinic or your students they're available to any of us in the public. Right? How how do we get there? Yeah. That is true. So I am a scientist. Right? And so I I really do believe in the scientific process
of development and testing and so forth. Nevertheless, during Covid, I really did see that these techniques that they're not available to people. And so I put up a free website that's called fern hills center dot org. And this free website has the... Techniques as well as some written explanations on them. And you could say, it is a beta website. For some people, it's not all that easy to navigate. But nevertheless,
the essentials of the techniques are there. And 1 of the things that we found in... Through our research is that, for some people, just online delivery of the techniques is enough. It really helps them. For example, an elderly man, 74 year old man who participated in a research study that was purely online. Was assisting his wife who had developed dementia memory impairment he was very stressed out about the process.
What he said that he gained was the ability to see her as the light and as the inspiration in him. And his anxiety decreased, depression decreased in terms of their symptoms. And so, so that is that's profound. And then on the other side, we see that there were some people within...
That online will only study who found themselves somewhat confused by the techniques because frankly, there is a lot going on and then there's sort a lot of guided imagery and instructions that take a person and through the process. And so it wasn't exactly right for them. And I think actually, that this is really important for people to grasp about meditation, medi techniques, guided imagery techniques, is that not 1 thing is right for
everyone. You know, oftentimes you need to go and really give various things a try, and then sometimes you get various things a try more than once before you find things that are suitable for you. And so I really think about different kinds of meditation as being, like different tools within a toolbox. And the things that you focus on in the meditation develop your brain in different ways.
And so these particular techniques have really been formulated with the idea of helping a person to Well, first of all, health have self compassion and to really hold themselves in a different way to reduce. Those experiences of shame and guilt and, and depression and anxiety. And then also, to hold others in the non judgmental space from their perspective so that 1 can connect with with others, and then
finally with nature. And so, that that process is as you can imagine, it's it's something that does take learning and it takes time. And so I believe it is ideal to learn these kinds of practices. With an instructor and we are moving toward that we're moving toward being able to deliver these techniques to a broader audience and hiring more staff. So here's a plug, You know, She you are in the state of Massachusetts and clinically licensed and would like to join a group such as this.
You know, we have opportunities for you europe. If you're research or and you wanna join a research program, doing this kind... These kinds of studies, you know, it's it's it's open for you. So we're moving toward this, and it's clear that there's there's something beautiful and important and profound. With this work, but it it definitely is it's, like the baby has now been born and basically a a toddler, you know, travel. So that's our stage right now. Yeah. And I would also add to the plug.
If you are a person who wants to approach life the way you're hearing, Felipe, how how he approaches his life. Let that be the inspiration. Check it out. Fern center dot org. And and I like what you say. It's it's it's a toddler. The baby has been born. It's a toddler. We're learning. We're adding this we're gonna transform like you said, the universe likes to change and create. So this is now on its way to changing and evolving and creating and continuing to grow.
But most importantly, continuing to impact people in a positive way, and like you say, it's not just the individual. It's then all the people around them. It's then the people around them and ripple and ripple and to the systems to the nature to the universe. So really beautiful work that you're putting out there in the world. And and also you use the word and body earlier, and I I find your just energetically, you really truly embody what you're talking about.
And that's beautiful to to be around. I really never knew that the body could embody this. My own personal So you you could say trial and error, which in a way is a sort of a scientific experiment with a a number of 1. Right? 1 1 participant, but I never knew that a that that I could embody things like this as well. But, you know, that was that was a surprise and a beautiful thing. What a living inspiration you are. And by living, I don't
mean alive. I just mean I can tell you are this essence that's going to continue to evolve and change, and that's genuinely inspirational. So thank you so much for for sharing of yourself, not just in this podcast, but in what you do every day in your life. Thank you. Well, that... What... It is that you're seeing is something that's connected with you and is connected with every 1 of the listeners and all of the other people and things that are out there as as its basic essence.
Felipe, thank you so much for being with us today, and, for being a part of community and for you listeners. Thank you for being here, and we will see you all next week. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Rossi. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Ras, often teacher and founder of the Hop institute foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the
world. To find out more, please go to hop institute dot org.