Today, I got the pleasure to sit down with Seam Mu whose list of accolades and accomplishments in the food and restaurant industry is beyond impressive, But what was even more impressive was his vulnerability and wisdom as he shares more about who he is. He speaks to the power of the process and how compassion and forgiveness has impacted his life in small ways. But most importantly, bringing healing to his relationship with his father, which he shares so beautifully in today's episode.
Enjoy Welcome to Loves everyday radius A podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Liz Sever and on this podcast, we engage in conversation and learn from Hoffman Graduates. Will dive deep into their journeys of self discovery and explore how the process transformed their internal as external worlds. They share how their spirit and light now burn brighter in all directions of their lives. Their loves everyday radius. Welcome everybody. Today, I have Seam Mu with
us. Hi, Seam. Hi, Liz. Thanks for having me. Of course, I'm super excited to be able to sit down and talk with you. And I'm hoping you could share with us and the list a little bit about who you are and what you do in the world. I am a chef by training. I spent 20 plus years working in restaurants. I owned an operated restaurants for a long time. And in the past 10 years, I've kinda of transitioned more into focusing on how food impacts our well being
and our health. I'm a Quick author, and I consult a on a number of different projects both in the hospitality world, but also in the world of Health and Wellness. Yeah. I live in Southern California. I'm a very active guy and, recently got back from the Hoffman process, which I think we're gonna talk a lot about. So I guess that gives you little idea of who I am, what I do. Yeah. Awesome. Well, and I think selling yourself a little bit short. Not just a restaurant tier.
Right? You were a very accomplished chef with some very successful restaurant and Tv appearances, and you name it. You've had it in the in the restaurant Foodie world is what I what I know of I've is that correct? Well, that's very sweet view say. I mean, I we've all kind learned about what the world of restaurants are like and Chefs are, like, through Reality television and there's some truth to what you see it. It's a pretty
hard driving and tough lifestyle. But, yeah, I I really did focus for a long time on on my career And unfortunately, I sort of paid the price with my health. You know, I focused on driving and building my career while, my health was deteriorating. So it got to a point where I realized that I had to make a shift
I wasn't gonna be around. But, yeah, I've been in this world, and for a long time and really hoping that we can make some changes and broad strokes around our relationship with food because I think so many people in the industry as I'm in. You know, I don't have a perfectly good relationship with food and unfortunately, that is the... In my opinion is 1 of the foundations of our well being. I'm interested. In know, what got you into cooking and interested in all the culinary arts?
I grew up on a small farm in Vermont, and I was always around food and cooking and cooking was sort of, like, I can't remember time that I didn't cook. From early childhood. I was cooking with my grandmother, and it was just something that we. It was another another chore that my brother and I had to share with the rest of the family. But I I think I learned pretty early on that if I made really delicious food, people liked me.
So it was It was very self serving, and I think it continued that way for for the majority of my my professional career where I realized if I make good food it made people happy and then people in turn like me. So it was a lot of... It was the positive mirroring that might have been missing from my my early childhood I got through food. What's 1 of your dishes? Your favorite dishes to cook? Oh, you... Good, lord. What what to say? I know. I mean, I I...
Anything that's fresh in seasoned and full of flavor and un complicated. I'm always of the opinion that most chefs need editors to edit talent a number of ingredients in the dish. If you really wanna pay homage much to the ingredient, You do as little as necessary to make it shine. So okay it could be something as simple as a beautiful ireland tomato and in the height of the summer with some really good olive oil, drizzle, good vinegar and fresh herbs, and that's it. And
it doesn't mean very much. Mh. And do you think that kind of the upbringing small organic farm in Vermont kinda led to some of the simplicity that you that you love the whole ingredients that approach? Yeah. I mean, without a doubt, I I was... I think a lot of people of our age and our generation have an aha moment where they taste an heir room tomato over the first time, and they're, like, holy
This is what manage it tastes like. And my experience was kind of the opposite I grew up with really, really good produce and when I went to into school and first grade. And we had a hot lunch program. I remember having a tomato that was, like, crunchy and had 0 flavor. I didn't even know what it was. So I sort of had the inverse the inverse U aha moment where I realized what the rest of the world was eating. So I I definitely have been steep in very good ingredients from early age.
I think that that was certainly a part of the reason why I chose the career that I went into. And you mentioned earlier, kind of your own... Health, journey and healing journey, relationship with food, care to fill us in a little bit more about that. I was a pretty athletic kid and in high school, I was really athletic. And then in college, I started to not feel so great. I I got all these... I'd get these sort of mysterious.
Attacks and different joints, and that progressed and got worsened into my twenties to where... I was feeling chronically pretty crappy, and I didn't know what it was and and it was I didn't have any specific symptoms that were clear enough to come
to diagnosis. So for several years, I would just have these added aches and pains that come and go, sometimes I would just feel like I had the flu and I was really run down or low energy, and it got progressively worse to the point where I was going into the hospital pretty frequently to the with these horrific attacks in my shoulder or in my in my ankle or my knee, and the joint would swell up, and there wasn't really any
reason why And them injury. And and eventually, I was I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, which is a chronic inflammatory autoimmune disease. Once I was diagnosed, and I kind of had this diagnosis to hang my hat on it, did give me sort of a sense of relief that I wasn't it wasn't all in my mind. It wasn't nuts, but it also... Gave me a pass to not really be responsible for my well being. Well, I'm just sick, You know, I'm a sick person and I'm gonna take these meds and just do
the best I can. And I followed that conventional path of Medicine for many years. And it kind of took me down on a pretty dark pathway. It just... I was able to manage the symptoms for a long time, but I just got more and more chronically ill, and I gained a lot of weight, and I just felt terrible. In... I would say about 12 years ago I had this moment where I really I was kinda at the end of my rope. I I had a near death experience.
I I got bacterial meningitis as a... I mean, literally, my immune system was just extremely suppressed by the I antidepressants I was on to try to control Ra. And as a result, I got... Infection in my brain and it nearly killed me and that's realized that what I was doing to try to treat this disease was not working.
You know, I was very fortunate to meet a doctor of functional medicine who helped me understand that the lifestyle decisions are choices I was making a daily basis Were impacting my health, and that I could actually do something about it. There was there was something pretty empowering about that. Understanding that I could make choices that would directly impact this disease I was living with and he helped me also understand that I wasn't sick, but I had an illness,
and it was a very different mindset. Once I was able to kind of separate myself, from this illness, I started to chip a away at, and through changing my relationship with food I mean, I I totally revamped my whole life, and over the course of the next year, I slowly started to see all these symptoms... Disconnect disappeared eventually, I got to the point where even my biomarkers for the illness were gone, and I... Technically it was in remission, but if ask
me. I think a lot of autoimmune dysfunction can actually... Because these are modern illnesses it can be... They can be reversed. In my case my opinion. Symptom free for over for 12 years, and and I feel really great. That was the physical journey. That's sort of a gloss over, but it was a it was a pretty remarkable experience to go through. Having sounds profound, and I wanna circle back to what you just said, that he helped you realize I wasn't sick. I had an
illness. And can you speak to the distinction that that helped kind of create inside of you? I think for a long time, and and this is not... Uncommon. I think folks that are experiencing chronic pain or or even sadness or in my case, it was all lumped together. It was there was an emotional component, but there was also... There was just this chronic physical pain that I felt. I started identify with it, and it became a defining element of who I was.
I fell into this this role of being a victim, which is very hard to get out of and also somewhat comforting to be in. Because it really feels like you take away the responsibility of for your own well being. And I think that this is something that a lot of people struggle with, and it happens, like, with trauma for, So if you've been through a traumatic experience, it is most definitely not your fault that you experience this trauma. But if you want to move beyond it, it is your
reasons. Responsibility to acknowledge it and to work through it. And I think that for me, I kind of embrace that sense of being a victim I'm like, oh, why me, you know, I don't deserve this. This is... You know, and it's says it's like, not my fault. But at the same time, let me just kinda live in the space as being a as being a victim because then I don't have to do anything about
it. And it can be really daunting to try to move away from that and then sand that the responsibility of dealing with you either are going to identify with your illness and live in it or take responsibility for the way that you're leading your life, and try to make change. And it took me long time, but I got there. And that makes you think of those 2 posters if you remember, from your past. Us that hang on the wall. My life is my responsibility, and I am not my patterns. And I
think it just underscores... Yeah. Those 2 2 powerful statements. Yeah. That was 1 of the first things that that my eyes just gravitate to towards my walked into the classroom was looking up and seeing I am not my patterns. That was, like, a really powerful thing to realize that we so often define ourselves by pattern behavior. So if like, if a pattern is to be a victim, you perceive yourself as a victim or if a pattern is to be sick. You perceive yourself as sick or defective.
That was like very high to realize that holy shit. That's stuff that I've done for a really long time. Yeah. 1, and where we went there? Hoffman? So what brought you to hoffman? I think in a lot of ways, as much progress as I have made in my own physical health. In many ways, I still felt... Very much like I was stuck in the past and mir in the past living with with resentment. And that was keeping me from truly living in the present and progressing. And my mom died really suddenly 2 years
ago, And I... That really just messed me up. And I was really close with her. But I think I also struggled after she died with resentment that I still held towards her. And that con... Internal conflict of how can I be angry towards this woman that I love so much and who now I lost and it created a lot of internal conflict
for me? Where I knew that I needed to focus on there's some work that I needed to do, and I didn't know exactly what that work was, and I had several friends that kind of all showed up in my life and had gone through the process and spoke so positively the process that I was really interested and I applied for, but, of course, being Covid, there was a really, really long wait list, and I kind of forgot about it. Honestly.
I made a lot of progress and I did a lot of good work, and I actually was in a much better place, not in, like, a state of internal conflict crisis nearly as much. And then I got a call from the folks that at hoffman saying, hey, we have... We might have a space opening next week. We'll know by this afternoon and we'll need to know from you if you can do it by tomorrow or something like that. It all kind of happened really quickly and I just... I I talked with my with my
partner. She's like, no I think you should do it. As things happen in my life often, but everything just kind of line that I... Happen to have a light enough week that I could be flexible to following week to move things around and do it. I know for most people that involves a tremendous amount of planning to be able to set us aside any days to work on yourself, I happen to be really lucky that when
this opportunity popped up, I was... I... 1 of out of 52 weeks of the year that I actually have the flexibility to be able to do it. It happened to be the right time. And so I said, you know what? I'm gonna do this. Out And I kind of went into it without... I mean, I did all the homework the weekend before, which was a lot of writing. And I have to say too, like, in doing a lot of the homework. I was a little I talked to a true my teacher about
this before getting there. I was a little, like apprehensive because I felt like a lot of it was... Focus on early childhood and is all work that I thought I'd already done. And even the first few days of the process, like I got there and focus was a little resistant because I was like you, I I think I've already done a lot of this work. And Drew kept telling me, you get it in your head, seam. I want you to feel it. I really want you to to feel it and connect those 2, And I think that was...
When my head and my heart kind of connected, I think on day 3 or day 4, Things really started to make a lot of sense. It was a really powerful moment. Do you remember what experience or or win that was for you when you're head and hired connected? Well, without saying too much, I would... There there was a moment in the process we're recording going through compassion and forgiveness in the in the cycle transformation, understanding compassion. And forgiveness not only for others, but also
for yourself. And 1 of the exercises that we're doing and for me, this became a really powerful tool was letter writing you know, writing letters as a 12 year old to my 12 year old father, but having this of, like, omni visibility into the the entire lifespan of both of us. I was able to really understand that my dad and even his dad to go generations, deep to see that. They're just these patterns that are... That we repeat from generation to generation.
Holding on to resentment it's almost like blaming the individual for their pattern, and I guess that goes back to that poster in the
classroom that we are not our patterns. A lot of the resentment that I'd held towards my parents from my early childhood I was identifying them with their patterns and incapable of separating them from their patterns and sort of going through this process of developing compassion understanding, What they had gone through and understanding that my parents were just repeating that the patterns that they had experienced from their parents.
And because I happen to know a lot about both my mother's parents and my father's parents and even their parents. I was really able to it's like this this Aha moment when I was like, holy shit, Of course, my dad didn't know how to be a present dad to me because he he was raised without a dad, and his dad was raised without a dad, And, you know, there's this sort of generational trauma that would... You just sort of, you end up repeating the same sorts of patterns that you
have experienced. Or else you develop other patterns in, reaction to the patterns that you've experienced. That was really amazing moment for me. And then from there going through this exercise of forgiveness realizing that. And this is probably the the thing that struck me the most. About the process is truly understanding that forgiveness is not for the forgive, it's for the forgive.
And when I was able to truly, have compassion for the experiences of my parents and grandparents, and then forgive them, it wasn't to ass swag them of their guilt or responsibility but rather to free me of the resentment that I was holding on to. And that was a incredible moment. I think we talked about this quote that resentment is like drinking a poison expected be enemy to die. I realized that that kind of played back into what I had learned in my physical transformation of being a victim.
I was still kinda holding on to I was able to let Go that in this physical journey that I went through and going from being really, really sick being healthy. But I hadn't quite gotten there, that in the, you know, the emotional component? Yeah. It's beautiful and so well said. Right? About how compassion has to come before... For forgiveness and so by, leading you through that dialogue writing, you were like, I see him on the dad so much clear.
And then you were able to step into that exploration of forgiveness and releasing the resentment? Yeah. That was a really remarkable experience to go through because I... As much as I knew about my father's childhood, and my mother's childhood. I hadn't ever really embodied it with them, Like, for people who haven't been through the process, 1 of the things that we do is letter writing you really spend a lot of time kind of sitting with your parents and what you don't know about them. You can
surmise from from what you do know. And to me, it was... I I literally was embody experience of being my dad as a young child, as a young boy teenager. And realize that, ultimately, you know, we're all to a certain degree into the degree to which we're we're willing to acknowledge it, there's, like, a part of us that's always just a a scared child and seeing that as a scared child will be develop all these sorts of patterns to
kind of... To survive either to pretend that we're not or to go deeper into it, you know, being able to really sit with both my my mom and my dad and see their variances made me really see them in a different light and accept them for who they are as flawed and beautiful and loving people. Experiences So Shu is, I'm curious to hear if the deep exploration that you just mentioned around your parents, you know, the understanding. The compassion you found if that translates into or has shifted
into current relationship. So has your relationship or dynamic with your father shifted at all? Yeah. You know, it's funny that you should ask. This... You know, 1 of the things that we talked to about on the process is afterwards to reach out to family and to connect with them. And I did that, I reached out to my dad, and I invited him to come and visit me in California. I mean, I and my dad hasn't thrown out of his way to visit me in, know, forever.
So it was nice to say, hey. It pops would be great if he came out and maybe we can go camping, we can hang out spend some time together. And he was really... He was very grateful and excited to do that, and he booked a ticket and came out. We spent about a week together. And the first first few days were great. I mean, I 1 of the things that I've been able to really do since the process is to just in the act of forgiveness.
To really let go of that resentment that I'd held on do for really long time in my relationship with my dad and just accept him for exactly for who he is and to even see him just as a wounded in her child who was scared a great great visit. He he spends time with me and my partner in Southern California, and then he and I drove north to the bay area where I had some work. And we went camping and super fun. And after, like, I don't know, about 3 or
4 days. I could feel myself falling back into some patterns of left road patterns of bail. Snarky and a little passive aggressive towards him. And I caught myself, you know, I used some of the... Some of the tools that we learned in the process to to recycle that and reframe what I was feeling and realize that the things that were triggering me in him you know, it's up to me to decide how to react to that. And a trigger is only trigger if you allow it to
be. It's just information and how you wanna hold onto. It's gonna determine how you react to that. And so I was able to kinda let go of it, which was great. And there is this... This is something I wanna tell because it's it's kinda. So there's this this interesting... Situation that came up with my dad. My my dad's, my aunt. My dad's sister lives in the Area. He hadn't seen her in many years. And I suggested that we see her that repair visit. And he was really resistant to that.
He said well no, no. You know, She's really pissed me because I I forgot to call her on her 8 birthday. You know, I said to a down let do this. And I kinda wrote out a script form. We're gonna call her, and you're just gonna say, oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. I can't believe I forgot your birthday. But just so happens that I came out to visit Seam So We made an last minute decision to come up to the Bay area, and we're nearby. We'd love to see you Is there way we could drop by and and have
breakfast. And so he did Eddie called her and I heard on... I could hear her on the phone. She was so excited to hear that 1 that he reached out and 2 that we were nearby, and 3 that we were gonna come combine and visit them. We did that, and then we went and night, you know, we had to get some ingredients to make her breakfast and bring over some bring some nice things over and have some house warm gifts, etcetera.
And we went over and had breakfast with her and made her breakfast, and she was so incredibly happy to see us, and she, you know, she started crying and she's, I I had made peace with the fact that I thought I would never see you again but for Eye and seeing you this is the greatest gift and he felt great they had a great visit and, you know, was really nice for And then we went to the beach and we hung out on the beach and had a long talk at the beach and I said,
you know, how do you feel about that data? I was he said it was so nice to see. It was great. You know, thank you so much for making this happen. I said, do you feel how leaning into this release you from that guilt that you felt and how that was eating you up? He's was like, you know, I'm an old dog, but I can't still learn there's a lot of learning still in me. And it's this thing that I've learned a friend of
mine told my watches is super smart. I said, everything in this world is born, it lives and it dies. But we stupid humans don't let feelings die. We hold on to them, and we keep them alive when we keep s them. And if we can just sort of accept them, even if they're bad, they will pass too. And I think that that was something that my dad really struggled, but it was really nice to be able to see that so much of what I had learned in the process. It was now affecting somebody so important to
me in my life through osmosis. I was seeing my dad change. Oh, Seam. I don't even have words. I mean, that is such a breath bounce. Story it. Is it cool. I mean, I don't wanna take a thousand percent credit for it, but I do think a big part of his being able to reconnect with the sister.
Who we hadn't spoken with hadn't seen in years and had definitely has had a challenge relationship with came from also accepting her, giving her, forgiving himself and having compassion for both himself and for his sister, and he just needed a little bit of about encouragement to do that. Well, absolutely. And how incredible that you get to be the person that through your own work found compassion forgiveness for him and we're able to then extend that.
And make real life shifts. I'm always curious. We spend a lot of time at the process talking about parental relationships. And, you know, as teachers, we don't always hear how life shifts changes beyond that or especially with that dynamic. And so just to see how your vulnerability came out and was able to lead him in a in an active courage and mona already in and of itself is incredible. He has been able to perceive a shift because he he's known, you know, for my
entire. In adult life in most of my childhood, I have held on to a lot of resentment at anger towards him for the relationship that we had for my early childhood for shit that I just went through. I had a pretty, I think, a a challenge unusual upbringing in anyways. And I holding on to that was really holding me back. And this a big part of why I went to the process in the first place and really have felt like I've been able to let go of that. My dad obviously, felt that he's... He's like,
I've noticed incredible shift. It feels so good to not feel like I'm walking on egg shells around you when I call you. It feels good for me to too not to feel triggered or to slide to passive aggressive left behavior when... He does something that I find annoying. I just rather accept like nuance who he is.
He's not gonna change and if I... Am hoping that he becomes something, that he's not, then I'm gonna perpetually be disappointed, but if I can just really just embrace who he is, and also have compassion for the trauma and pain and shame that he's carried his whole life, then I can I can get on with my life and live a a fuller life, Absolutely? Just the reminder that it never in too late to rewrite your story or get a chance to change and shift relationships is
beautiful. You know, there's nothing really remarkable. I think people are always worried about how they're gonna be perceived after they go through some sort of transformation their own. When you show up differently in in your relationships, how people respond and there's nothing remarkable about, Like, you just can't
have a 1 side argument. When you've... When you let go of resentment, and are able to objectively see things that may have triggered you in the past and just sort of accept them and let go of them. Then if you find yourself in an ad material dynamic with someone who maybe it's with a parent or it's with with a partner rather than being triggered or meeting their conflict you just sort of our you're able to show up differently because you've learn new tools.
It's amazing how patterns ends up naturally manifesting in the dynamic a relationship and the person that you might have been historically in conflict with, there's conflict takes to people. And if you're not meeting that conflict is sort of, like it just merely. It's the whole idea of falling on your sword in good partnerships, both partners are constantly for another sort. As a reminder that we need to do that. And sometimes, it takes the first person to do that for the dynamic to shift.
I reminded the story of the Buddha. The Buddha, you know, was traveling around this very wealthy bra came to the Buddha and said, oh, you've been telling all these people that you're enlightened to doing all this great stuff. And I think you're a fake and you're a phony and the buddha at to the wrong world. If you invite me to your home, and you
cook for me, whose food is that? He said, well, it was mine, but now it's yours, and the buddhist said, what happens if I decide to tell you I don't want that food and I reject that food. Who what is it now in the balance of well it's mine. And he said, I reject your anger, the moral being that. If you don't accept someone's anger, there is no conflict.
So if you don't meet it, there is no conflict and that's it, I'd always think of it would like these, you know, the kung movies from the from the sixties and seventies. You're sort of, like, you just move out of the way and the conflict stops. The conflict goes away. It disappears like wind. That's something that I've I've really started to learn in my own life post process.
Which is that if you kind of get away from that, he said she said or that Ping pong match of conflict and just step out of the way, you'll realize that there is no conflict. The conflict totally manufactured often, and I've seen that play out and in relationships and partnership and even in traffic. You know, it's it's pretty remarkable.
Yes. The ability to move out of the way, but also the ability to meet, it in a new way of being, being brave enough to try on a different quality or different way of being and and seeing how it shifts the ripple effect begins. Yeah. Exactly. People are often worried about, what is the dynamic going to be if you shop differently in in your relationships? And you don't know. That's the beautiful thing of about life is like, you can't control it. So it's gonna be what it's gonna
be. And chances are, it's probably gonna be better. But I'm curious if you found the group environment of Hoffman to be healing or helpful in that compassion piece. I was so resistant to the idea of group work before right off. But I was really... I didn't like the idea of over sharing. I didn't like the idea of so and so gonna just, like, dominate and talk about themselves and like, it just seems all too, like, we're ruin 2 new Ag for me. Surprisingly, it ended up being something that I
like most about the experience. I I don't think it can happen. Outside of a group setting. There's an amazing cam or f alternative so already whatever you wanna call it of the universal of the human experience that realizing that all of the insecurities and all the fears and all of the pain and the hurt that I may experience you experience too. The human experience is universal.
We are all thrust into this world, and we go from being in 1 same safe place and in the womb with our mothers to suddenly being rejected. And it's sort of a series of rejections throughout our childhood and whether what helps us either cope with that or reinforce that sense of of shame is parenting. But it's all it's there to differing degrees for all of us. And being in the
group setting was... Is pretty remarkable. It's super cool just to see that I'm wanting to see the growth in other people, but also just to feel that there's something comforting and knowing that you're not alone. There's a moment where we have these courageous conversations where you... Approach someone and bring up a moment over the course of the week where they've reacted to a
pattern somehow, you have triggered a pattern. And this is something else that was really seeing as learning about this idea of triggering. And then realizing that the feeling was totally endogenous to yourself, it was not something that someone else had had imposed upon you for and the guy who came up to me. Is was great. You know, he realized early on the week that he'd had seen me and it triggered him. In his mind, I was walking and all these people were talking to me and he was like, here's
this guy. Really... He's out calling and have been likes and blah blah. But then I realized, Whoa, that's really weird because that's exactly how I felt about him. But I went and... And I told him that afterwards and he was, like, are you kidding? I'm like, no. You're like, we could have a hundred and 80 degree conversation and the shoe could be
on the other foot. And isn't that wild how, like, we all walk around with these insecurities, and we just assumed that everyone else has got it all figured out. And I think to agree degree like the world that we live at operating now, especially in the world of social media where everyone's portraying the best version of themselves are the fictitious version themselves. It's very easy to I think that we live in a life where we're, like, insignificant or less than because There's always
someone that is... Has better abs or smarter or wealthier or has a hotter boyfriend or a bigger house or a fancier car. So we never feel like we measure up. And I know, that was just a really a really interesting experience for me to see. Yeah, the power of transferring can be healing all in of itself. Another thing I wanted to... Talk about though was you mentioned, previously
that part of this journey you... At Hoffman you had realized that you had been out sourcing both your joy and your sorrow. And I found that so profound, and I'm hoping you could shed a little more light and share with us. What you meant by that. Yeah. It's something that I didn't realize that I've been doing for most of my life. And I think outsourcing my Sorrow. I sort touched on with this side idea being victim. It's. Like, okay. This is... These these things have happened to me. Therefore,
I am... I'm a victim and I'm unhappy or I'm in pain or whatever. And that's like, like outsourcing the responsibility other rather than taking ownership, you know what I'm saying, I am not my patterns. But then outsourcing of my joy is really... I think a big part of that is comes from not feeling mirrored as a child. And I truly do believe that children need to be loved une unequivocally just for being who they are.
Not for what they do, not for what how they perform, not for how they behave, but just for being, that's a very, very important part of childhood development. And when kids feel like they have to perform, or that love is conditional, it really creates some very damaging patterns that I think a lot of us in up upholding for majority of our lives before we're not able to actually acknowledge it and work through it. I think for a long time, I did outsource my
my joy. Meaning, I was dependent upon seeing myself reflected and the others as being good. If you were to ask me what are, like, my deepest securities, you know, there that I'm an idiot that I'm I'm lovable. Anybody who knows me he would say, don't be silly. Mister you're ridiculous. Here, You're of course you're lovable. Of course, you're smart. But, of course, that has been my internal monologue
since since our early childhood. And it's only through realizing that I have been dependent upon others around me telling me. No. You're smart. You're not idiot. You're you are valuable. You are worthy rather than turning inside and actually feeling that bleeding it myself, and I think that... No goes back to that that idea of self compassion and also self forgiveness. Self forgiveness means forgiving myself for having those negative feelings that I've had towards myself.
Overcoming that eye idea of being dependent upon an external input to feel and value, which is something that I think goes back to early childhood, and I think children really need to... It needs to be enforced and children that they are a value and they are lovable and they are deserving of love. Just for showing up, you know, just for for being there. And then the other stuff comes
from that. Like, then everything else is figure audible, if the sentiment to the child from early on is that only a value as long as they do XYC, then they're gonna have to perform or behave or c, they're a reflection of what they've done to feel a value. You don't have to throw a stone very far to hit any number of people that in in the public iowa, you know are dependent upon external inputs to feel a value. The lack of sense of self worth that I think
is an epidemic. I think I experienced that throughout most of my life, which was just really having to... Again, words that term that I brought up, outsource my my joy and outsource my sorrow rather than taking ownership and responsibility for the trauma and pain that I'd experienced and realizing it's my my decision whether I wanna live in it, where I wanna change and the same 1 for for my joy.
But if find so interesting in all of this is live I always describe it to students as, we're peeling back the layers of an onion. Right? And it just you get deeper and you get deeper and you make... New insights, and new connections. And even just what you're sharing about, you know, these shame beliefs, these shame messages that live in you and how 1 of your earlier kind of reflections back to you was through cooking.
You know, you got people's love and attention through what you made for them, what you did for them, how you cooked for them, and then that is something that you carried and create and built a whole life around. Yeah. I mean for sure, it's no it's no accident that I went into a, a career that would give me a lot of mirroring. You know, I said that at the the top of this conversation that... I think I went into it because I was desperate to get that.
Validation and sense it worth because I just didn't... You know, from a early on, I didn't feel it. Am I getting a hit of that. A dopamine hit of feeling like, oh, you know what? If you do this, people like you. So do more of this, it... I think it's a big part of why I went into the career that I went into. And what are some ways that or, you know, we could offer to people or that you've been? Sort of trying to fill this self love?
We've we've hinted at it. Right? But what are some ways that you've approached self love recently or even after the hoffman process to sort of build batter or fill your cup of rug back up. 1 of the things that I I think about a lot is this idea that, you know, we think about... Illness is being contagious, but we don't often think of love or health or well being as being contagious, And I think there is a positive contagion. And some of it is internal and and might require a little bit of a of
a bump start. Like, you gotta roll it down the hill a little bit. You gotta fake it till you make it sort of thing. The process of self forgiveness and self compassion thing is hugely important. So just accepting that it's okay that you're totally fucked up because we all are... Except that that's okay. Don't expect you yourself to be perfect. Understand that, like, your flaws are part of what make you wonderful.
And then, like, for me, it's been doing things that genuinely for myself that are really truly for myself that bring me joy. And building on it. And when you start to experience that internal joy, the contagion is wanting to experience more that. And then also having forgiveness for yourself, when you have a hard day and when you when you have anxiety, I wake up and I feel overwhelmed, to understand is okay that I need those dark days for the light days too. The sun can't always be shining.
And this is something I think about every day, and I know it's super silly, but I have survived 100 percent of the worst days of my life. I'm here now. I've been through shit, and I'm still here, and there is a sense of accomplishment in that. I learned a really important lesson. When I was 9 years old, and I've kinda carried it with my my whole life. My... My grandfather's best friend was a Japanese card. His
name was Tat. And they were in world war 2 together, Tesla was his translator, or they were Dozens Japanese American, and they remained friends till they both died in their in their seventies. I remember when I was 9 visiting my grandpa, and Tat was gardening in their gardening and he was on his hands and knees, and he was crawling backwards. And I thought it was just so weird that that was how he worked he. Always
just crawled backwards. And I said to him as... I was like, That's so why why do you why do you work backwards and he... He took his gloves off. Like, he was about to give me some great life lesson which he was. And he looked at me and said, well, Seam. That's that's so I'm never overwhelmed by the daunting task ahead of me, and I just always inspired by all that I've accomplished. That's something that I've tried to keep with me and in that idea practicing self. Like, look what I've done.
Look at what you've accomplished, not... Oh my god. This is so overwhelming this task ahead, but look at everything you've gotten through. And that little practice, it does help reframe what can otherwise seem overwhelming. And it's nothing it always works, but it's certainly for me has been helpful. Well, I think there is no better place to end than with the words of thoughts. Because that is quite, quite remarkable and profound just just in that
and taking that sentiment forward. So Thank you so much, seam for for sitting down and talking with me today and sharing with us about life and hoffman and everything in between. My pleasure. Thank you for having get this correct. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Breath. See I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Ras Rossi, Hoffman teacher and Founder of the Hop institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access
to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to Hop Institute dot org.