Quick question everybody. 19 31. What comes to mind? Maybe you're thinking about American history, but 19 31 was the year Jack Raf was born. He's a guest on this week's podcast. He took the process, the when he was almost 91. His wit is sharp his humor is present, he references his physical ability to navigate so many of the expressive and cath work. In the process. Jack has been involved in personal growth for years, Jack c. Please enjoy this powerful episode with Jack Raf.
Welcome to Loves everyday radius. Out casper to you about Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horn. And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates of the process to and have a conversation with them about how their work in the process is informing their life outside of the process. How their spirit and how their love are living in the world around them, their everyday radius Hey, everybody, Jack Raf is here with us. At the Hoffman podcast. Jack, how you doing? Fine. Thank you.
Jack, you have been so much a part of personal growth throughout the decades. You've developed multiple techniques that help people grow and change your part of the founder of Est, a early transformation movement program. You've been in this field of growth and change and transformation for a long time having you. Yes. I have since 19 71. Actually, yeah. I was involved in doing things. Before that. But with s back in 19 71. 5 decades in the field.
I guess I would just ask, what's that like to be involved in the personal growth field that long? What have you noticed? I was always interested in people. And and I was in a night nightclub business for a long time. I worked for Did you a nightclub business? Yes. I worked for a gentleman in San Francisco were starting in 19 53. And he owned the club and then eventually moved to 2 bigger locations, So I was kind of a people watching.
And know, I was interested in people and watching them, but I was curious about people and, you know, how how... What I thought... The term I used was how people were wired. What it caused people to do things. I had read a few books early on psycho cyber and things like that. And and I was really interested in that, so so when s came along with something Thought. Okay. I just dove right in.
And and I got the opportunity to meet so many great people there and along the way And If you sit down with people that allow them to just open up, it it's it's amazing. How resilient people are... The love that they have that they don't always express, but that so was there and I don't know. That just there just a lot of things about about people that are interested and a lot of things are along the way that you find out about people
that are were inspiring to. And Jack all along as I've been prepping for this interview, I thought you did the process back then but then you revealed to me, you did it a few months ago. Yes. I did it the May 28 to do third, May 20 eighth to June third, and how held old were you when you completed it? I was 90 Hours was 3 months short of my 90 first birthday. 90 years old doing the hoffman process. Jack. What do you eat for breakfast? What is
the... What's your secret there? You know people ask me that because a lot of people normally me for years say I looked the same, and then I looked back, you know, 40 50 years ago I looked the same. And I I don't think I really do, but I looked close to what I I haven't aged that much. And when they ask me what it what it is it, my only answer is my friends. I have the best friends in the world. I'm gifted with knowing some wonderful wonderful people who love me and support me and that
sustain me. It's... And that's the only thing that I could look and see the reason for how I feel at this age of 91 years old, you know, we'll... Maybe we'll put in tooth the show notes, some research around how loneliness really can be deadly. And you represent the opposite of it, connection creates longevity. Well for sure. I I really believe that I mean my... My friends are but... Right I tell them on occasion 1 what 1 it arises in
the conversation. Now how they sustained me whether I'm with them or not, whether I haven't seen them for a long time. III know their connection to be, I know that they care for me and love me in that, and that's... I just live in that. Well, Jack, let's let's go there for a second because you know, we can know friendship is important, but creating community is a lot harder. So how have you been able to create sustained lasting deep friendships that have nurse you so much? Yeah Like first...
Thought it is I don't know. But certainly it's certainly important to you isn't it? For sure it's important to me It's... Maybe the most important thing to me. And the relationships I have with with my friends are very intimate that and that is, you know, they share themselves. That's what intimacy is people think Intimacy is getting to know somebody else, but it intimacy is really show yourself, and my friends all show themselves,
and then they're... They're that type of people who who were who willing to be vulnerable and show themselves that express themselves in and are supportive. It's like a no brainer that doesn't take anything to be able to create a community when you have people that are that willing. Well, maybe part of your secret? Is that you choose wisely you surround yourself with people who wanna reveal themselves to you Yes. I'm sure that's part of it, but but it's also they choose wisely to. You know?
I really have only a few friends I consider that I only have a few friends. I'm not open with the hair cutting friendships with people who are negative or who waste their time being in the past talking in the past and when have stories. I'm just not interested in those kind of people in that. And and as I say that I think that that's not a nice thing to say because, you know, there good as anybody else. They're doing the same thing everyone else in the world is doing
they're... We're doing the best they can with what they have. It's just I I just don't choose to relate to those people, but I don't think that there's anything wrong with them or there anything less than than that my friends. It's just not the way I like to raise that's all. When you are with people, and you are with your close friends. I mean, I didn't expect to go here, but since you mentioned friendship was so important to maybe your vitality and your longevity.
It seems worthy of pursuing a little bit. What does it look like if you're hanging out with your friends? It looks like a lot of fun. Well my friends have a good sense of humor. They're sharp. They're not afraid that you know, dirt my leash and they they don't mind if I jerk their leash. My friends have such interesting, backgrounds also.
The and it's so knowledgeable knowledgeable in so many different things that and the stories they tell or just fascinating to me, you know, you look at somebody and you and you you never know what's going on with them. You'd never know what kind of a background they have what kind of the life they live within in friends at all him very Rich lives. I love the the idea that you can tease each other as a part of a good friendship.
Yeah. And and when I say jerk the leach, I mean, if you if you say something and it's really off. They're gonna, you know, the jerk your leash. About it. That then you have to look at see? Oh, okay. You yeah. I missed I missed on that 1. So when you say... Jerk Least You mean a kind of calling out with love, a kind of accountability? Yes. Exactly. I like the... I think it's
necessary in a relationship. A lot of people can't get there because they're they tick things personally and you gotta get to a point where you don't think tick things personally. You just... And you understand that the people that you're relating to the Always have, they're always dealing with you with goodwill so me seem... A little bit blatant to other people when you when you know your friends are dealing with your with you with goodwill, that's not blatant This.
That makes sense simply what I'm saying. It does. Lots of lots of trust. It sounds like that you've c created with your friends over the years. What's what's 1 of your longest friendships that you've sustained with people in your lives? Well, ras is 1 of my long as matter of fact. Res and grass. I've known ras for 51, 52 years. And we were roommates on couple of different occasions at couple of different houses, and we're very close, and then we've moved we've moved the like distance away
from each other. But we've always maintain that connection. And that's 1 of the things that was so great seeing him, I spent the 2 days after the process with Ras and Liza, and liza is another deer friend Liza, I've done maybe 45 years, then I worked for Liza. Liza is just incredible. The world seems like it's the way it should be, you're safe. Everything is working fine when you're wrong or that... That's... What she what she brings. Is that is the feeling I get. When I
see her, I know everything's is okay. If you've known Ras 50 years. And liza 45 and you know they have led the Hoffman process. What brought you to it now at 90 rather than so many years earlier. They offered for the a scholarship, like some time ago. And I had some very dear friends that that have taken the the process, and everyone just rave about, First of all, I knew if ras elijah were doing this an had extraordinary. I've just good at extraordinary. Now
I knew going. When my friends, who have done a lot of work on themselves, set out valuable. This was, like, the of the... That seems got just gonna be incredible. And I took me a long time to do it, and I and I don't know I can't tell you why I procrastinate. Apartments because it's in my nature, I think, but it took me a long time to come out. 1 of the things I really appreciated the ras and my did not reach me. Did not push me
did not do anything. They just let me do this on my own time, and it so happens. That everything happens and it exactly the right time. It was so interesting because I had done so much work on myself and got myself and what I consider really good shape. And not that, you know, nothing that I'm trying have arrived any place because you never arrived, but but I'm in good shape.
So I thought I was gonna take the hoffman process and tweak some things Well, you know, that went out the window in the first 15 minutes of the oil process that did just not be out... If it just... It was the best thing I have ever done it totally changed my life, I was a different person when I left that rule in all the personal growth you've done, it was the best. Yeah. I saw things to about myself that I have never seen before. I thought that I... Know, I've gotten into myself very, very
deeply. But it appears to you it when you're get yourself. So what's it? Okay. I guess you kind think that you, you covered all the ground that they you seed everything, you've looked at all these parts of yourself,
you're not missing anything. And I guess that's I've kind of powered it lived with me that I found so much there through hoffman process that I wasn't aware of and not only Whereas as I am aware of it that I can give it a name that I named to myself, given the as ascend as a name, which gave me more control and power over them and also the processes that hoffman been gives you to work on these thing, already, I disappeared. I don't know, 3 or 4 things.
And other thing is just keep fading way, you I I know they'll be gone just quite amazing. When you say you've disappeared things, can you share some examples and what that means? Yeah. It comes to me it's something that I became. Aware of that I was not aware of was that... I don't know III think it's trying to be clever and trying to look smart it'd be intelligent that looked like I've got it together. Now, I knew fits a little bit of that there, but
it seemed like no problem for you. But I saw what a big problem for me it is. And it all came to me when it was a realization. That this is what I did with my brother because I was a really a good boy. I just realized that that never went away. What I do is I'll even lie, I'll, hedge the truth. I'll do anything to look good and to to look intelligent and to look like I've got it together. Now this... Like I said, this is the right... I do this every day, and I
see, that's part of it right there. See, just when I started to say, was part of it. I I will going to clean that up by tell you. I don't do that every day Matt, and I caught that. I would have never caught that before. It would've have given you some explanation about... Well, I don't do that every day, but, you know, to to show you that up that I've still got together. There's some awareness there to catch yourself in the moment. Yeah. To and that's what Hoffman gave the
ability to do that. So Jack, take us to your your process your week, What do you remember now as you look back on that experience? Well, I remember that that that I had resistance? To some of the processes, 1 particular process. Like, I had resistance to it because I've never liked doing any kind of a process like that. And then when I did the process, I realized how valuable was if after getting into it, brit micro resistance doesn't stop me from doing
it hundred percent. I relay... If I'm there, I'm gonna do it as good as I can, whether I like it or not. So so that was the 1 thing. And many of the processes that are that are done...
I just love. First of all, the quad I think is a beautiful way to explain what a human being is and the teachers, we have 4 teachers, and you could see these teachers speak to you through through their bodies, to their intellect through through their spiritual self through their emotional self, you could see them speaking through all those 4 phase individually. They're very individual, it's not what you see a lot of...
Sometimes you see people that are traders or or teachers of and they're all kinda clones of 1 another. These are really individuals who are they're totally in support of the people there and it was so great to be in their hands and I could kind of watch and I'm interested in watching teachers and these are the best I've said, they were so easy to listen to or kind so well in explaining things. I just loved it. And the people in the room their comments about things
this... That's another thing I noticed, we started up a... What's that. The thing that people share, I'd watched people share for years and years and years. Mostly, man. I think more times than not what they... When they will share something after having a positive experience and taking a course, and then sharing something that that was negative or something where they had a bad experience what they did was they followed that up with some story about it to kind of mitigate the experience.
But with the hoffman people, every time people shared something negative. It was just they shared area. That was it. They let it go. And I... And that's a very important thing for me. I don't know whether I'm making this clear enough to you. It's the difference between just talking about your experience and leaving that go as opposed to talking about the experience and then then having a story about what you just said.
There is something about, honoring the reality even if it's painful, speaking truth to what's hard and then moving forward into the light as well, not rationalizing it or storytelling it? Correct. And that and that is something that I've know that they've got through the Laugh process. They came away with a different kind of awareness about things that that allowed them to do that Yeah. That's profound for me. Jack, what did you notice as a a 90 year old in the process? How was it?
For you, certainly there's a lot of movement, a lot of walking, a lot of expression cath work how did you deal with all that? Well, it it's it so happens of the about year and a half or 2 years ago, I got a really bad pain in my left leg going from my hip down, and I talked to my doctor about it, and he says he thinks it's from my back because the bottom part of my back is kinda scrunch down, and I guess all the all the nerves maybe your...
Getting jammed up down there or something. So he's he thought that pain was from down there. So I couldn't do a lot of things, but, like, sitting on the floor was painful for me walking was painful for me. This so so that was that was bothers some other than that they let me sit down on a chair and do some of the some of the other words by sitting on a chair, And then that helped a lot. And by the way, I've I've been going to a a woman who does Ac pump, where she was trained over
in China. Does Ac, but that pain is totally gone now. But anyway, that was bothers for me. But other than that, I could do everything, and it was. It was ar, but it was all great and and there's such a big payoff after you do those processes that However, while them maybe while you're doing that, the payoff is so big that you forget about it immediately. I love your referencing it as a payoff. So for the listeners, can you describe a little bit of what that payoff is, what what happens?
Yes. And I don't know this how this came about because I I I've been sharing the whole process with quite a few people. As a matter of fact, I had 2 people who who were going to a role and the that I know so far. And there's a third person who may. But any case, I don't know how to explain this, but I'm just hyper conscious fit? Jeez... It's so hard for me to explain it. It's not enough to say I'm aware of things as I wasn't aware before. But what is that? You don't what this up mean.
And I really don't know how to talk about it yet, all I could say is, like, some kind of a hyper awareness. You that I didn't have before the that I I can see what I call when I'm off. The you, for me, it's either being in the posture of love or not. What I wanna be is the posture of love all a time. The only reason why I do anything is to be a more person. So you have to be present all the time in order to do this
and you... And what I wanna do is be present and be present in a posture of club not be present to, some negative thoughts or things in gone. Wanted to do that, you have to be present and pay attention and I had this ability to do that better after a off, but I don't know how to talk about it. I just... I think you're doing a great job. Speaking to it. And I think there's something really sweet that it's such an embodied experience that you're struggling to find words
to represent that feeling. Yes. I share a whole lot of things with people when I talked to them about what the value... When I come to that where I I'm stuck for words all the time. And I tried to explain it in some way. And I I haven't said it it's a way that I think is really get got because I don't get it. Jack, you, you certainly described it well when you said in the past of love in the posture of love?
Yeah. That's a that's an expression I use in the courses that I do And I talked to people about that as a way of saying what it means to be present to love. Jack. You referenced that liza Nr have known you. You've had friendships for 50 years and yet they never pushed you to take the process. And and I think that's just something we should acknowledge that this is not something where you go out and recruit friends you go push the process. If you love your friends, then you'll tell
them about the process. We just don't do that, people come to it in their own time. Yes. I have another mutual friend. This the ras. I have visual friends that we spent thanksgiving with without a los Angeles occasion. They ever pushed me either and I really appreciate that because coming from my background had asked that its things were very different there. Was there a lot of... Recruiting in those days at est. I wouldn't call it recruiting. But they call the sharing. If you're
doing it. Correctly that it is only share. But people just got carried away, and they would push people. It just got best the sharing state for some people that in pushing people. I see that only as cause its people's inability to to really share I feel that if you share anything with the property you're really willing to open up about it and be vulnerable. The people will get it. Then you just gotta leave them, under of the won't self terminate. Wanna ask about scholarships.
You know, we, at Hoffman. Provide more than 400000 dollars worth of scholarships each and every year and over 22 percent of our students our scholarship recipients. And you mentioned that you were able to get a scholarship, what did that mean to you? Was very important because of Covid and everything, particularly that my finances weren't what they had normally been, and that mental ought me to be able
to do it. Otherwise, they wanna kinda put it off plus longer, and then who knows since Was taking a long enough time in the first place and then Harry, the additional problem of having to come up with the extra money, you know, who knows what would it happened. So that's really appreciate that. You know, obviously, it made such a big difference in my life, but, I support that program
a hundred percent. I did As a matter of fact I did a... I wrote a little thing for 1 of the, when they were asking for for people to bought the program, I wrote a little thing about my experience. Every time now that I've get some extra money. That's where it's going. Occasionally, I've heard some cars in the background. Are you in the city? I'm in Sherman Oaks and I'm right off the big bull and can we put some links in the show notes to some of the work you
do? I've been doing, of course, Colby article lady for 42 years yeah. Now there's a good friend of mine Maggie. We took the hoffman process. I don't know that she took maybe 10:15 years ago old. She knows a woman, who she told me couple of months ago, you've... Gotta meet this woman. I see the 2 of you doing something together. So she introduced me to this woman Lia. And it turns out that Took the Hoffman process from Bob Hoffman back in, I think 89.
We hit it off and we're going to do the next course together, and we're calling it born to love, and it's gonna be in about October fifteenth and sixteenth. You're gonna c lead a course. Yes. It's about relationships. It's about love, and it's about being present and fifteenth no. In the past, Jack, I'm grateful for this conversation. How you feeling reflecting... On your work, your life, your Hoffman experience. It feels really good.
The... I just rave about ultimate thrust because it's every part of it is put together so so well to serve the people that that go there to to change their lives. It's quite miraculous. It really is that I'm so impressed that I'm so indebted to that process for changing my life for the better, and bring you more love in the my life. Well, I just love it. And I love the talking about it, and any cheap chance that I get to talk
about it to people I made. And if I see at open if I see that it may be something that they would be looking for. I, you know, I open up the conversation about. Think you've done a you've done a great job, Jack. You are truly a a wonder with so much energy and vitality and taking the hop process at nearly 91 years old, fantastic. I am bet from have some new friends through the Open process. Some of them live here in Los Angeles, some of them live other places, but but I have new dear friends.
That's great. And they pair really well with those old friends of 50 years, don't they? Yes. For sure. Jack. Grateful this for this conversation. Thank you. Drew. Thank you so much. I appreciate. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza and Rossi. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Asking Rossi. Often teacher and founder of the Hop institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access.
To the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to Hop institute. Dot org.