When people show up with curiosity, I mean, real curiosity, only good things will eventually happen. Andy 10 is 1 of those people who embrace this curiosity in its life. He's a writer. He's a director And he has so many questions about his past about his present and throughout his week, he just kept discovering over and over again new insights, new information, it was a joy to watch him learn about himself about his life, about his past, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Andy 10.
Welcome to Loves everyday radius. Podcast brought to you about Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horn. And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates of the process. And have a conversation with them about how their work in the process is informing their life outside of the process us, how their spirit and how their love are living in the world around them, their everyday radius. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. My name is Drew Horn. Andy tenant is with us today.
If you don't recognize the name, you will when I share a little bit about his work. He's a writer and a director, he has written and direct did ever after a Cinderella story fools rush in, Anna in the king suite home, Alabama, hitch fool gold, so many good things that he's been a part of in Hollywood, and he got his start as a dancer in greece and greece 2, way back 1. He also is a husband and a father of 4 with triplets in that 4. Welcome, Andy. Thank you.
Glad to be here. And a hoffman process graduate. Indeed. So as someone who has been through it. I'm just curious about your early impressions of it. Like the first day, the first evening, what was going through your mind in those early moments of the process? Well, driving up from Los Angeles, I I wanted to turn around 2 or 3 times. I I was excited to go and curious, and intrigued on my way up, but as I got closer and closer to, I I just started thinking what am I doing?
Why am I going? This is stupid. I I don't need this. But I I mean, all all of those thoughts, were just bump, you know, bouncing around in my head. And then I got there and I felt all of my classmates, you know, all 27 of them, I think. We all kinda felt the same way, and we all were very cordial and and friendly, and we had this kind of opening night dinner before the process actually started, and I think that made me feel better that we were all very, very nervous and
it was... We were definitely gonna go outside our comfort zone. And so I thought, oh, I've got this. This is gonna be fine. And then the next day, it was a wall and a shock. Take us to that wall and a shock. Because it's in a it's it's an immersive experience as you look back now, what was happening for you with that wall up in shock. Well, I remember passing you on the on the road, the pass, back to my room, after that dinner, feeling like, oh, everybody's here.
This is gonna be... You know, this is camp for adults. This could be great. And you you mentioned something to me in passing. I was just kinda like, you know, Okay. And then I kept walking, and it just stuck with me And I got back to my room, and, obviously, you know, we didn't have our phones. We don't have computers. We didn't have anything like that. But we do have... We do have writing
pads. And I remember going back and starting to write, and I think I just wrote and wrote and wrote and then the next day when it all started, I personally really wanted to surrender to the process. I I wanted to you know, I was there. I was I was full in, and I think by lunch, I was, like, so happy that I was there. So by the time lunch came around was like, okay. On day 1. I was just, like, number 1, I think
because there are... There were 4 teachers, and every 1 of them was so dynamic and compassionate and articulate. And inspirational that it wasn't going to be some magical cure to anything. It was just going to be a time to to stop the world, I wanna get off, and I wanna know and I wanna understand what's going on with me. Andy, you know, a lot of people at times can assume
the process is about mom and dad. And certainly, they are in charge of our care giving, and we receive patterns from them and get part of your process was about your sister. And and I would love if you could share a little bit of the evolution of that and and what happened and how the process supported you in your healing. In fact, the the the night before the process started and you, and I passed each other,
I said, you know, we have to... Everyone all the students have fill out a a very comprehensive, a questionnaire that, you know, takes hours and hours and hours to do. And and you kind of while you're doing it, you just think or what do what am I doing? But I remember, you know, filling out the the multitude of questions and and being, you know, completely honest and can't and having lots of can and what what that was for me. But as we you and I passed each
other Was like, hey, Drew. Hey, any good see you, you know, we'll see you tomorrow morning, You know, have a good night. Have a good night, and then you'd said to me, Think we're gonna have a lot to talk about with your sister. See And I like, yeah. Sure. Yeah No. I kept going. And that it just landed, and I'm walking back to the dorm con... What did he mean by that? I don't understand what's going on? And
and it got me thinking. I got me writing and ultimately what Hoffman did for me was they talk about the negative love syndrome, and that Shame is the mother of all patterns and and and and it's really the the core of of so many things and through the process, I began to realize that I carried my family's shame, because of my sister having a, inc relationship with my father, and it was this kind of horrific thing that I only found out about when I was out of college.
And lots of dramatic revelations came about by sister, was incredibly self destructive, because of it, she died early, I mean, it was just it's just horrible, and I have always, I think, not even knowing it until I really went through the process. That that I just had tremendous guilt and shame about it and was embarrassed by my sister and the person that she turned into without ever knowing what had really happened to her.
And then when it did happen, feeling incredible shame and and guilt about I'm not rescuing her or saving her in some way, and it just was an incredible revel kind of week where so much of what I think I was carrying had to do with my little sister. The Hoffman experience for me and the the expression of that awareness and the the expression of the
bashing, everything else that came with it. I think had such a profound effect on unlocking and breaking down that all the stuff that's behind the anger, all the stuff that's behind your intellect, all that's all the things that are hiding and that it's like that joke, you know, it's like, cartoons where you open the clause and all sports stuff comes tumbling out. That's how it felt. It's I didn't realize
how angry I was. I didn't realize how much I had been holding on to and denying and ne and justifying. So that was that was for me. That was a that was a big issue. You know, therapy is so help full, but you're you're speaking to the second step of the cycle of transformation expression after awareness. That it doesn't end with awareness that the expression piece is critical. What did that do for you?
I it was so revel for me. I kind of started discover beneath all that kind of intellectual just certification for not doing something or my anger at doing something. I I found so much unbearable grief And that that to me was the the kind of it kind of unlocked, like what else am I hiding? From myself, how what other shame do I have? And and I think I... In my family, I believe I carried the shame of the family in a way and became sort of an enabler where everything was fine. I made jokes. I
was funny. I kept my mom happy. You know, I was very close with my sister. It it was just all that kind of stuff that all started to come out as I Beat the shit out of that pillow. So for me, the... That was sort of, you know, it's was like, pulling the string of something again going ahead on. What what does this do. And then it just took it just unravel everything for me. So I was able to... Once I sort of unlock that to part of me. It felt like I could bash my father. I could bash my mother.
I could bash my wife. I could bash myself I can bash my God. Everything about how angry and and that that to me was so scary at first. If And then what was beneath that with all that sort of grief and shame and outrage. Forgive me, But it was, like, popping an emotional z that just exploded. You know, and it was like, oh, there's so much relief. You know, when you describe that, part of what I hear is that once you understood what was happening.
Oh, and when you say bash, you're just talking about engaging an expressive cath work, using different people in your life, as a way way to heal yourself. So we're not we're not harming these other people we're talking about. And then, but something happen for you, it sounds like because once you understood, oh, this is how this works, there's grief underneath this, does Oh, I get this. It sounds like you doubled down a little bit and went after even more. Yeah. No. I did. I I... My hands were
bloody. I'd lost my voice. There were days and I've talked to my other... My fellow students about this. But you know, there were days of bashing where, you know, you get to lunch and you're like, I I have nothing left. There's nothing left. I'm done. I'm... I'm I've I have no more anger. I've no more
grief. I'm completely fine now. I'm healed. And then the afternoon would come and we'd be bashing something Else Would be like, I have nothing left and then low in hold, I'd have a ton more to deal with. I I think that's the sort of the beauty of the process is the the orchestration and the and the the chore of what the process does is so you cannot anticipate what's the next thing. And so it keeps you completely vulnerable to
what is gonna happen next? And and I think that's that's part of the... That's part of the process is just to keep you from using your Intellect to try to outs smart the process when the process is is is far smarter and and and far more aware and I had to you. I think after all of that cath work, it you had some powerful deepening, healing experiences in the compassion and forgiveness days. Did you not?
Oh, yeah. I swear to you. I would have bet my house that there was no way I could ever forgive my father. Subsequently, there was no way I would understand and really see my mother and my father's relationship the way it needed to be seen. I fully committed, but what happened was I started to do it for me. I started to understand that this was this was about self love, and all the negative love syndrome stuff that had been built up around it just just to kind of
destroy all that. And and I found myself really visualizing and seeing my parents marriage seeing what happened to them when they were children using the the the line. I I can't remember exactly how it was, but but but the the kind of psychic line between my grandparents to my parents, my parents to me. When I finally got to know my emotional child, was pretty revel for me. It kinda knocked me on my ass. You remember where you were? I think it was up on the hillside.
I think those 2 hours alone in nature after all of the exercises, all the visualizations, all of the small the small group chats, everything. I think that's when I really met myself and forgave myself and forgave them. That that to me was my... Was a bit of a a rebirth. It sounds like there was a comm of the 3 of you, your sister, your dad and you? Yeah. When I say profound, I don't... I almost don't mean it in sort of this sort of heavy way. I almost feel
like it was profound in a... Or almost like a so. It was so gentle in its power. You know, it wasn't a lightning bolt. It wasn't that. It was this gentle release of decades of stuff, and it has sustained And the reason it's sustained. And the reason I feel so, you know, we're comfortable talking about it, it's effortless.
Now. To just wake up and be grateful and be happy and it's not any kind of k. It's just that all the darkness and all of the shame and all of the the self loa thing and the I am un unbelievable and all of those things just... They're not even part of my my being. And it's... III don't think I'm being... I mean, I know there's a dark side. I know there are things that can come up.
But when they do to have the ability and the grace to know it and not fear it and not give it, not give into you know, it and and and deny it its power. It it really does just become your your truth, andy you know, to heal to let go of that shame. I mean, we're applying words right now. To a journey that is almost cellular, almost ind But if you had to put words to it, what is the process like of healing around the wounds of your sister.
I've told people that it was the the most difficult, most profound. Most emotional most incredible spiritual week of my life. And and and that's not hyper. It really was. I've never cried so hard, but I've also never laughed so hard, and I think that all came from a release. Of so much stuff that, you know, that I didn't even know I was carrying. And that, you know, obviously, that was, you know, my sister was just 1 of the, you know, multitude of things that I dealt with,
but it just... It's like peeling an onion. I mean, you ultimately, your your the layers and layers and layers of your protective mechanisms, and the the way you can you can shift your your dynamic to you know, to to, rely on your intellect over your your emotional child and your your heart and all of these things combined, it was just such a profound discovery process. I mean, it sounds cliche, but it was incredible. It's the best week of my life, Wow. And you've had some pretty good weeks I
mentioned. I've had great weeks, but I... But I have been living... You know, under a... And then I I'm, you know, I'm speaking for my my entire class, you know, all my classmates. I mean, I think ultimately what what you also, discover in the process is that you're not alone that you're... That everyone's got their shit. You know, it all it can all be different, but it's it still is a profoundly affects who you are and how you navigate your life.
And for the most part, you know, I would say 99 percent of the people there who, you know, successful, accomplished, fun, smart people. But they all had stuff, and it's confusing, and it it wasn't confusing once you go through the process, but it is confusing when you equate your value as a human being to your accomplishments, and it just is a... Empty way to go through your your your life because that that inner critic still knows who you are. You know, as a as a child and
you feel like you're living a lie. Yeah. The power of that inner critic is pretty strong as it? Smarter he's smarter than I am. He does how to manipulate me in in a multitude of very subtle nuanced ways. And as you talked about stripping away those layers peeling the onion, I imagine you get to a very tender place, certainly in my experience as a teacher, and many people wonder Can I handle that? Do I want that kind of exposed vulnerable part of me out in the world?
Is it scary, too scary that 1 can lose all ones. Defenses, And I'm just... I don't believe that, but some people believe that, and that's why they don't do the process. So what would you say to people who have that argument? Yeah. I mean, I think, in know, in a in a general sense, the headline of the Hoffman Institute is... For people to get out of their own way. And not not
to be gl. It's just that it it is about becoming your authentic self and if you don't understand the patterns that you're living, and you don't understand why certain things you know, we're happening. You know, people who come to the process want to change, want to understand, want to, have clarity. And you know, I've I've heard and I think this is such a miss mis. You know, it's, you know, somebody somebody once said, you know, it's it's like, 10 years
of therapy in week. And I'm like, that's so not even close to what it is. Not therapy at all. I mean, it's not that kind of thing, and it isn't Yeah. Being vulnerable is 1 thing, and there are people who go to diff... You know, can go deeper or go to certain levels and some people have... You know, significant issues to deal with and others have very private issues to deal with and what I would say to anybody who's nervous. It's like you have every right to be
nervous. I was nervous. I wanted to turn around or not go. But it's so nurturing. It it actually is like a, you know, just like, going back into the womb. It's very nurturing, very fun, very liberate. In a way. And I think the the beauty of the and the craftsmanship of how you guys have scheduled the the week. If if you never know what you're gonna do in the next
hour. You can't anticipate the next thing, whether it's a visualization or it's a bit of a of a talk or it's a bit of sharing or it's this or it's that or it's a game or it it's so kind... It keeps you so off your off your... You know, on your toes that, you know, this is what is it a hundred and 65, a hundred and 70 different exercises that that you do in that week. That to me is that is the beauty of the process. And it is a process.
It's that you don't know what's coming and so you have to ultimately surrender to the whole thing. And there are people who, like, on day 2, you feel very self conscious about doing something and part of the expression and you're, like, I don't know if I can really get into this and then suddenly the year into it, and then, like, I'm done with that and then the next day you do it again. You're like, well what I... I'm I'm already done with all that expression. And
then you find out oh my god. The the it's a... The well is deep. And it keeps coming up and it comes up, and it's it's it just becomes a a fountain of self expression and discovery that is that's when That's when you get to the part that is just inspirational and such a relief to to finally be able to understand it and know it and face it and then forgive it and move on. Understand it, know it, face it, and then forgive it and move on. I love the
outline of the process andy 10 style. I I have a question about Hollywood and your experience as a writer and a director, and someone who creates characters and Molds characters. I mean, you're in a way in the people business. And certainly, you have created characters that experience change and growth and when and people move on the screen emotionally it's inspiring, so you know this work.
I'm just just kinda curious the difference between Hoffman, and your work in creating characters that certainly have multiple layers as beings. I make fun movies what I'm more interested in is movies that explore the human condition. There are days I wish I was Sc or David Finch ventura, or Quentin and Tara. And, you know, and and and I and I love a lot of those movies too. I just...
It's not me. You know, And when you think about what you're gonna spend a year and a half of your life on, whether you're writing it and then directing it and then editing it and then putting the soundtrack to and the score and you with London Phil harmonic and you're you know, it's like, why am I doing this? And for me, it's trying to make people laugh and make people
feel. You know, it sounds corny, but it's a fairly dark world out there, and and people are struggling, and I've always thought that you know, even in the thirties with what Preston stu and the and the, you know, the great depression, some of the great commodities were coming out of at the, you know, the worst of times. It was because people needed... It was like, sullivan travels, You know, people need to to laugh. And I did find great
I don't know. Pride in movies that really shouldn't necessarily travel overseas, you know, going around the world with hitch and in Sweden, Alabama. It's, like, I was once told that that warned that when we, you know, we opened the German, the Berlin film festival with Hitch. And we were warned. Well, the Germans don't laugh, so don't be don't be too upset or, you know, shocked when the, you know, the movie doesn't play
very well. It played, like gang busters. It... I mean, the Germans laughed harder than any any other group that I and I saw it around the world. I saw in probably 15 different countries. But people automatically let laughed. I mean, they laughed at all the same jokes and all the same human behaviors and all the same stuff, and I just reinforced in me that it is a it is a real blessing that I get to do what I... What I
get to do. And I... Honestly, you know, part of character development is, you know, some people go straight back to you know, bruno Battle hines the uses of en en, which is about fairy tales and what they say and how they affect children and Joseph Campbell, and what, Lucas used. It, you know, storytelling is an important part of of revealing character, revealing ambition and darkness and desire and family and, you know, love. Wow Andy, it's just a pleasure listening. So you mentioned
so many good things. I think we'll put some of these in the show notes so that people can understand a little bit the history of film and some of these references you're making so I really appreciate that. And I wanna ask about laughter because you talk about the Berlin film festival and and the Germans laughing despite the fact that, you know, you were warned that that would not happen. How did you make people laugh? Is it a formula?
What's what's your gift around bringing smiles and chuckle to people's faces when they watch a film. I have to tell you, it's really hard to defend a joke for a year and a half before an audience sees it. You know, you you have you have studios, executives and people reading something is saying that's not funny. And why do we need this scene? And you're like, are you kidding me? This is really funny. That could sometimes be my my biggest challenge? I don't know. I mean, I don't necessarily
think funny. I'm I don't feel... I'm a... I'm not a comedian. I try to write from the heart and I try to write. But I think you human fo are funny and and being loves sick makes you vulnerable and do stupid things. And I think we all can, you know, maybe there's an English expression, But, you know, they... We can take the piss out of ourselves and just be human. And to be human is to be vulnerable and to mess up and to be awkward. And I think that's what audiences
relate to in any language. You know, it's not just a pratt fall that can make you, you know, that can make audiences laugh. It it can it can be a look. It can be a... It can be a reaction. So I I mean I think my movies work overseas because it's less about a joke line because often... If it's a joke kind of movie, it's just it's a joke and often language, you know, the the the the written word, sometimes that
joke does not translate. But human emotion and the human condition and human frail and human vulnerability, and all of that, those things translate, translate easily, in Language, we've all been in love. We all had our heart. We've all had to deal with funny situations. So I guess that's kind of it. I love the the human frail, human emotion transcend language. That's a bit of what the process is about is is allowing our full humanity to come to the surface.
Well, that's exactly what it is, and I think it shouldn't be such a surprise when you finally meet yourself, but it is. Oh, you gotta say a sentence or 2 more about that. That that is just beautiful. Keep going. Oh, but it's but it's true. It's true. It's like, I'm 66 years old, and I finally feel like I know me and I, you know, over the Christmas holiday, was with my family and the best part of, 20 21, was that week at the Hoffman institute because it it changed my life, and it didn't
change it in that... I'm a new person. I'm actually the person I always was meant to be. And I was the... I'm now the person that III feel like I'm flourishing in a way that I haven't. And part of that was I was too busy. And part of it. I was overwhelmed, part of it. I was too angry. Part of it. It was there so many other things going on, But boy do I wish I had taken the process, you know, when I was 30, I could've have saved myself a lot of heartache and slip sliding and everything else.
And so what do you do with that lost time? How does your post process experience, hold those years that maybe you wish you could have back Well, I think part of it is to be mindful that I can't get those years back, but I can moving forward, celebrate all that I am and all that I know and I have to say, I... You know, my kids have noticed it. My wife has noticed it. My friends have noticed it. And I kid you not 2 days ago. I went to get my yearly checkup up with the doctor I've had forever.
And she just looked at me and she goes, what what's happened to you? Like, you're a completely different person. She goes, you just ex sued happy. You know, And I I was sitting there at a hospital gallon. You know? So... But, it was great. It it just it just affects your everyday existence. And I don't mean to sound like it's, you know, like you... You, you go away, and you come back and you're, all kind of zombie out in this bliss. It's not
that. It's not that all your problems, you know, go away and you're cured. What happens is the way you approach your day, the way you wake up, the way you go to bed, the way you check in with yourself, the way you deal and and communicate with your loved ones and your friends and the world around you is generous and open and authentic, and kind it's just your all the tension in your shoulders. You know, it just kind of ebb away. And, yes, of course, there's...
You still gotta to do your taxes. You... Gotta get a job. You still gotta work. You still have frustrations, things happen, and, you know, the guy cuts you off on the highway. Pisses is you off for a second. So but it doesn't affect you like it, it used to and that's what I'm I'm so grateful for. So in in moving forward, I just think. Oh, just I literally have cut off the the train of baggage that I have been dragging around for years
and years and years. And truthfully, I think 1 of the the most l liberating things is I am lighter and brighter because I have not only forgiven myself, but others. I have great compassion for the people who have wounded me or harmed, you know, harmed me in some way. But also just great compassion for the, you know, the world in general and what I'm... What everyone is going through. And I think that's an awareness that...
Clearly, I, you know, I thought I had, but all that new behavior that comes toward the end of the process. And those exercises and those visualizations everything. They really do set you on a on a different way of waking up every day. Andy, I love your description. You have a... I know you're a writer, but you're also a vocal with your... Capacity to put it into words. I wanna ask about the method, your show your a part of the writing and directing process
Not the writing. The the directing and the producing. That's all Chuck Laurie. Okay. So it's a Tv show out now. Come in method. Written by Chuck Lo, c directed by yourself and a part of the production producing. How is that going post process and what's the show like and and what's it like to direct it? I have found lately that I have...
Attracted male mentors into my life, which I find really poetic because of, difficult relationship with my father, it's been kind of a wonderful, you know, a value add to my life that men in their seventies and eighties, you know, Alan Arc and Michael Douglas, Chuck Laurie, Donald Sutherland. There's just this cad of older men finally seemed to get it. You know, whether they've gone through the process or not? There's something about wisdom that comes, I guess, maybe with age and
everything else. But, I have been, far more open to embracing mortality. Embracing, you know, the every day. My joy is not walking around looking at the trees in the sky and going, you know, life is brilliant. It... You know, that's a part of it. But I just feel so lucky and lighter, and I think it it does affect my work. It does affect my day because I'm part of the Hoffman process has the gratitude appreciation. At the end of every day, and I've taken that on as a as a kind of a practice?
Because I'm, you know, it's like, what am I grateful for. What do I appreciate about the day. And sometimes it's not all the nice stuff. It's the it's the lesson or it's the challenge or it's the the thing that came my way that I was able to actually navigate even if it was difficult. So III find working on a show about age and about... The the comedy in that show is is really about being vulnerable to the the breakdown of your of your life and your body and it's just a joy. It's a joy to
make people laugh. It's a joy to be around creative people who celebrate life and humor and understand... You know, it's it's not all a better Roses, but it's better than the alternative. I'm smiling What I'd like to remember your process, talk about your experiences, reflect on your work. This is the middle of your day, Andy you are clearly very busy and so to take this pause. To pony up to a microphone for this interview. I'm grateful. What what's that
like? Very grateful. I made really good friends from my week there fortunately for me. There's, like, 4 or 5 of the of my classmates that actually live where I live, and so we get together for dinners, and the beauty of those dinners, and those get together. And I've I've seen
I've seen people in Washington Dc. I've seeing, you know, classmates in New York is yes that Week was difficult and, you know, challenging and scary at at times, and then ultimately so liberating and so wonderful that we... When we get together, it's just about love. And I mean, we just love each other, and we see each other, and we understand what we're going through. And we we go... We get past the small talk of, you know, how how life? What are you working on blah blah blah?
And then we really get to talking about stuff, and it just is so it's so safe to find people that are willing and open and honest about their frail. And what they're going through and their fears and their challenges and they're wounds, and I try to take that with me into all the relationships I have, and it's been fun and interesting to see people who have not gone through the process actually be affected by the way I now
communicate with them. There isn't a person that I know that I don't tell them that I love them. And that they are important to me. And honestly before your very eyes people blossom. 3 powerful words, and I guess the I see you as well. I see you I love you. And you share it openly una. Even recently, you know, with the the death of Bob Sag.
Everybody, a to a person were so taken with the fact that he he told people that he loved them that they you know, he had such an energy about him that that's the legacy that he has left is that he was open and vulnerable and funny, but never missed an opportunity to tell people that he loved them. Andy. Thank you for this conversation. I leave uplifted from your experiences in your stories. Thank you. Well you're very welcome. Thank you. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My
name is Liza and Grass. I'm the Ceo and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Ross singh, often teacher and founder of the Hop Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access. To the wisdom and power of love. In themselves in each other and in the world. To find out more, please go to Hop institute. Dot org.