Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horning. And on this podcast, we catch up with graduates for conversations around how their internal work in the process is informing their life outside the process, how their spirit and how their love is living in the world around them, their everyday radius. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. My name is Drew Horning, and it is great to have you.
Julie Foppel is our guest today. Julie, welcome. Thank you, Drew. It's so good to be here. It's so good to hear your voice. I am looking forward to this conversation. So let me tell you a little bit about Julie. She lives in Jackson Hole, Wyoming and is the founder of realm. This is Realm. How do you pronounce it, Julie? Realm. Realm, of course. It's a real estate tech startup, and it has a whole virtual platform.
And they're in luxury real estate. Julie has been named the real estate global affiliate of the year, Fortune 100 international real estate global affiliate of the year multiple times that's put on by Christie. And she does incredible work in Jackson Hole in the volunteer world. And, she's also been interviewed by Julie, this list, New York Times, Forbes, Wall Street Journal, lots of good stuff. Anyway, Julie and her husband, Matt, did the process back to back. Is that right, Julie?
We did. Yeah. Within I think it was actually within 2 weeks of each other. Yep. And so, welcome to the program, Julie. It's such a pleasure to be here. You know, Hoffman was, absolutely one of the most life changing things I've ever done. And, and so it's just a pleasure to kind of relive some of those moments with you, Drew. Well, I'm I'm glad to relive it with you. So let me ask you a question. You and you have by the way, I forgot your multiple dogs. How many dogs do you
have? Right now, we're just down to one dog. But I think when you were visiting us, yes, when you were visiting us, we've kind of always had a baseline of 2, but we've added a horse to our menagerie. And so, so we have a dog and horse right now. And the reason you and I connected is because you are a bringer together of people. Is that true, Julie? You're a convener. I am. I am. And it's, you know, it's so interesting, Drew, because I don't think that I knew
prior to Hoffman. I don't think that I knew what kind of that significance of of a community builder really is. And, and so it's been such an incredible gift, and that's exactly you know, we connected through the community that that we managed to build through our process mates and, and that community has continued to just grow and grow. So it's it's very special.
You know, I had a friend once say there are 2 kinds of people, splitters and joiners, and the splitters hang with all of their different groups at different times. The joiners say, whether you know each other or not, if you know me, you're coming together, I'm joining you together. And Julie, that's how I see you, but I have a, so I have a question. Why, why the process and why you in the process? How did that come about?
Well, I think, you know, Drew, it's interesting because I've always been a little bit of a seeker, you know, whether that's somebody seeking approval or someone seeking knowledge or, you know, I think that for me, I have always been kind of looking for something in my life. And I think some of that is maybe prior to the process, I wasn't looking for
something. I was looking I was more running away from something, you know, and and coming through scary times and having starting a started a business and, you know, really there is throughout my entire life, I've had this kind of overwhelming fear that suddenly people are going to discover that I am innately unlovable and and that the secret is gonna be out. And then, you know, my life will
fall apart. And so whether it and it doesn't really matter how it never really mattered how successful I was at any given thing or how amazing my husband is or the kinds of friends that I've managed. None of those things really ever filled me up. I I kind of just always was searching for something and felt a real lack of belonging. So it was kind of like being famished but never full. And I was sitting at at a dinner, having actually, we're
having cheeseburgers at this place at Jackson. That's amazing. With another person that has gone through the process. That's an incredible human being. And and he said, you know, it wasn't even like a it wasn't even like a question, Drew. Like, hey. Would you be open to this? He was like, Julie, you really need to go to Hoffman. And and I was like, okay. I I think I went home and registered right on the spot just because it was like, okay.
Listen. If he feels this strongly about this and this is going to shed some more light on maybe what I'm looking for, then maybe it will maybe this will be the thing that I'm looking for. But it's clear that kind of imposter syndrome is part of what we call it at times where I'm never really full. Am I good enough? Will people discover that I'm not enough? How did you know and what was the cost of that
in your life? I'm imagining there's some poignancy there in the pain of that living inside you. Well, yeah, you'd you'd never feel like you belong. And so you're constantly that you I was constantly feeling like, oh my gosh. This is there is this shameful secret that really you know, I mean, it's not a secret. Now you go through the process and you kind of learned that we're all just doing the very
best that we can. And and we're all really just, you know, we're all just human beings just trying to get by and but it would come out in ways I mean, you know, fear based decision making is no way to make a decision. And so, you know, it would it would come out in ways where it would just be like I was running at everything. You know, it it didn't matter. It was like, oh, maybe today, this is gonna be
the thing that makes me love lovable. Maybe today, if I just achieve a little bit more, if I just jump a little higher, if I twirl faster. Now, you know, the the world ends up kind of rewarding some of those things. You know? I mean, I I've I've worked in sales my entire career, and and so you could imagine, I mean, when you're somebody that's a that's an achiever that's getting constantly rewarded for spinning faster, jumping higher, doing more I mean, those were things that were driving my
career. So I started to become addicted to that immediate kind of sense of relief or or that immediate gratification. But then the very next day, it would be like, okay, but that was just yesterday. And so driving my personal performance and then driving the performance of the people that were closest to me, I mean, you can imagine Matt Popple. I mean, that poor guy. You I just have to jump in here and you call your husband by your shared last name. You call
him Fopple. I do. Yeah. It's like we're teammates. You know? Like, it's are we saying we laugh now because I say, well, Foppel is more than just a last name. It's a lifestyle. It is there is an ethos to being a Foppel. And and, I mean, when you look at what an incredible human being that Foppel is and and and kind of the inspiration and the and the role that he plays in my life, it is you know, he he is his own brand. To me, he is his own brand, and I'm super proud to have that last name.
And and you guys are your own brand. I mean, we should add that you're in business together. You are a team very much as you create this. We are. You know, it's he it's incredible because I think that I am the vision of a lot of things. And, I mean, we oftentimes will joke about the business idea of the day or, you know, where Matt will say, please, Julie, we can't start any more businesses until the 5 that you have you have percolating in your brain, at least
throw off some kind of income, please. You know, like but he's together, we kind of make things happen. And we've been an incredible kind of pair and and ally for each other. And, you know, it goes back to, like, when I said, I really wanna go to Hoffman and I really wanna do this thing. He was just a 100% behind me immediately, and that's just the kind of person that
he is. Fantastic. So you take that suggestion slash demand from your friend, you sign up and you bring along that lingering sense of not being good enough. And that shows up in the process. And there you are. Take us to a moment in time in your process that you remember that felt poignant for you? Well, so I I think that it's interesting because I had no idea really what I was getting myself into. I knew that Hoffman was endorsed by YPO.
And so I that was my baseline. And YPO stands for Young Professional Organization. Yep. And and so I I thought, well, I've been to other YPO events. I know that they're nice. Drew, in all honesty, I was treating it kind of like a spa. And so I got a spray tan before I went. I got my nails done. Like, I I this was not a person equipped to go in and really do,
you know, deep, deep work. Right? And and and I said to my staff as I was leaving, I said, listen, I guess you're supposed to give up your technology. Don't worry. I'm not gonna do it. I'll be in touch this week. And then I, you know, I mean, how unequipped you you don't get any more. Like, it's like just unevolved than than kind of as I was
heading in. And then I took this took the Uber from the airport to Hoffman and and just thought, why why am I really doing like, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go all in, and I'm really gonna I'm really gonna do this thing. And so I I kind of changed my tune, but I did think also I was like, well, what if I don't like any of these other people? Or what if they make me, like what if I just share my feelings or do things in front of other people?
That is or be vulnerable. That was my biggest fear because, of course, how how in the world that I'm gonna tell everyone that everyone's gonna know my secret, that I'm unlovable and that I'm not worthy and that I don't belong anywhere. And so show up, and we have that first night, and it was pretty unnerving. You know? I mean, I don't think I slept very well, and and I just kind of kept thinking about, you know, what what am I doing here? But by that time, I was kind
of like, I'm gonna go all in. I'm gonna give up my check, all of that stuff. And so so then as the week goes on, there were two moments that were really defining. One was sitting outside and reflecting on kind of, you know, my life and what I wanted people to say about me. And the fact that I couldn't think of anybody that other than Matt that really knew me. You know? That that made me really sad, you know, where I was just like, how is it they how they don't know how much
I care about them. They don't know how, you know, how much I'm doing this, you know, how much I'm how hard I'm working, you know, to be accepted by all of them. I can picture you there, coming to terms with how much have I really shared myself with the people in my life. What what was that like to to realize that maybe only Matt really knows me? You know, it goes from being like there was a fear then goes to sadness then goes to anger. I mean, in you
know, you're kind of processing. I was processing through all of that. It ended up making me feel almost physically ill, you know, where where I just thought I have wasted so much time dying for someone to to love me, and they don't even know me. So that was pretty profound. And and I think that that was really the, I mean, that's a revelation that I walk around with today, you know, and and, I mean, that's
changed my life. Julia, as you were saying that, I'm thinking, how many of us have this question of how how well do people really know me? How much of my internal world have I revealed? I mean, I guess it goes both ways. How much do they know me and how much have I revealed to them, the people in my life? I love that that question still lives inside you today. It's actually I mean, it's become foundational. Yeah.
You know, to my journey now where it is all about really connecting with people and and sharing yourself and, you know, opening up your heart and being vulnerable and, you know, not living so image driven that you just kind of lose track of yourself. That's been such an incredible gift because I think that it's been able to take something that before was this shameful hidden secret and something that I was I couldn't show
anyone. They'd be so repulsed by by what they saw that I felt just, you know, that I couldn't I couldn't get there. And so instead, you build up all of these walls and all of these mechanisms around you to keep myself safe. And what ended up happening was that in the end, that wasn't safe at all. That was that was lonely. I'm so glad you said that because I what I find is that people often have safety as the conscious slash unconscious goal.
But when it comes from patterns and it's not driven by spirit, it doesn't actually create the safety that's so important to us. That's right. It creates the exact opposite. That was what I was wasting my time building was all of these things that I really believed were keeping me safe were actually keeping me small. And I had to go to Hoffman to learn that. Wow, Julie. And and and so take us to the
next moment in time. So so the of course, the next moment of dad was a little bit more irreverent, but I also realized when we were dancing and laughing and emoting and being silly, that was a piece that had been gone from my life for years. And, again, looking at it saying, people will make fun of me or I can't have fun like that because I'm a
leader or something. And and, you know, it's exactly the opposite where it is it's so fun to laugh and to and to embrace people and to to make everyone feel like they belong regardless of how they dance or regardless of how, you know, how they look or whatever that is. It's it's like that is the piece. That's the magical piece of of being able to play together. And, you know, it's it's amazing because it that revelation didn't just change my life, and it didn't
just change Matt's life. It has become a little bit of a movement for us within our company, within our friends, where at any given moment at our house, you could have ecstatic dancing. You just don't know. You know? And that was never there before. And, again, you know, Drew, I think now it's like, well, gosh. What a how sad? How how sad there were years where there was no dancing at the thoughtful household? You know, it's a it's a fairly simple idea. You know, we need more dancing in
our life. We mean need more joy, and yet it's more complicated than that. And it's more of a like, what does dancing mean to you? It means kind of that surrender again of the image of this seriousness. And there's some of that shedding of all of the nonsense, of all of the things that you think. If I don't do this this way, somebody's gonna judge me. If I don't behave this way, if I don't have this particular brand of something, then I'm a failure. And the reality is is that it's not about
any of that. You know, because I work in the luxury business, I've kind of had the like, you you know, where people size you up based on the labels on your clothes. And I believe Hoffman brought to me is the luxury of knowing that luxury is inclusive. It's not exclusive.
And so when you have somebody that, that like when you're, when you're making somebody feel really good or you, or you're dancing and you're just being a total goofball and you're making people laugh, there you are awarding a luxury, not just to yourself, but to the people around you. That's luxury. That's fantastic. That's redefining luxury because I imagine Jackson Hole has some high end people
who you work with. So you you leave the process, and then you come home, and and I imagine you have a little less than a week with Matt before he heads off. Is that true? It it is. The funny thing about that, though, Drew, was that Matt signed up the when I got back. So so it was the change in me was so profound that he was like, I gotta go. Preprocess Julie would have said, Matt Foppel, if you don't go to Hoffman, it's gonna be a real problem for us.
We're gonna have problems in our relationship. And post process, I think I was so like, listen, this is your journey. Everything has changed for me, but it's your journey and, you know, I wanna respect it. And I think he was so curious that he couldn't not share that experience with me. Our household operated a lot on efficiency and accomplishment before all of this and before we kind of became the new and improved version of ourselves.
But it was so he's like, okay. I can get the pre work done in probably probably 15 to 20 minutes. To his credit, he was just he wanted to understand what I found. And then he found something entirely different that is an an incredible enhancement to his life and to our lives together. And so it's just again, it's kind of like you just take the volume and you turn it way up and also change the radio station, I guess.
The frequency, what wasn't I do appreciate your acknowledgment that some of these patterns, these ways of being, although they aren't authentic, they actually get a lot of play in the outside world. It works. You're you're received well, and yet there is that sense of inauthenticity. Is that right? Totally. Well, I really felt like and I remember meeting with my teacher, with Nida, and she was saying, well, come up with a word that you want to arrive at by the end of the process,
you know, early on. And I was like, I can't we have a trouble with this word. And, you know, I I kind of wanna be okay. And she said, so complacency. And I said, no, it can't be complacency. It's not you know, it's not complacency. Like, I had a visceral reaction to that because I thought that, like, if I'm complacent, I'm not achieving things. Like, that is my there's a superpower. There was a such an attachment there. The and the world was re I mean, I was being rewarded by the
world. But based on my lack of complacency was what I thought at the time. And it was so hard for me to to go to that place. It I mean, I again, when you look at, like, fear based decision making or, you know, it all it brought up anger for me because I was like, you're not gonna take that away. I was so addicted to that. There's an addiction to doing. And just even noticing the trigger to Nida's suggesting complacency, it's like, that is
not what this is about. You know, one of the things I I do appreciate about the process is that it's not about doing it perfectly, whatever that would look like. It's about noticing what comes up in the process of doing it, and it sounds like that was a moment you remember. Totally. Yeah. That's it. I think accepting that there is no perfect way to do the process and accepting there's so much of that that is that you learn and that I learned that was so much more about
just accepting. I learned that I didn't necessarily need to stop achieving. I it just didn't need to be a compulsion. You know, I get to choose those things, and I get to choose how I feel when I'm being rewarded or when I'm not being rewarded, when I'm being challenged. You know? And and those those things were things that were being completely impacted by outside forces. And that's why I couldn't ever fill myself up internally because there was there was no way I could do that.
So we we do talk about free will choice in the process, and and I love that you just hit upon that. What does choice look like for you versus what did it look like? How do you know that you have choice in the course of a day, Julie? I would love to say that I that the process has cured me of all, you know, compulsive or neurotic behaviors, but that's not that's that would
be a lie. But because I think it's it is more about being mindful of, like, this does not need to drive me, you know, and taking a step back and, you know, using visioning and using some of the tools that the process taught me to to take control when the other voices are trying to make me small. And I'm kind of taking a step back and saying, okay, this is this doesn't have to drive anymore. This is not you. This is this doesn't define you. Let it go.
Or sometimes it's about being mindful and empathetic towards other people and dealing with a tough employee situation or dealing with a tough discussion with Matt or, you know, any of those things or with my family. It's it's so much more about just being aware and and then saying, okay. Wait. This doesn't have to drive. This is your choice. Yeah. The metaphor of driving and it and it's
not a sentence. You can be in the pattern, notice the pattern, and then sounds like realign, move things around. So so let me ask you a question. So then Matt comes out of the process, and you spoke about this earlier, but it it sounds like this changed your business. It changed your marriage. You said it almost was like a lifestyle. Talk a little bit about how and I imagine it's changed your small community there in Jackson.
What we've done through our careers, what and and what I have, kind of prided myself on is the ability to build culture within an organization and and, you know, to build this culture of excellence. And before Hoffman, it was all about rigidity and standards. And again, the things that I would weaponize against myself, I turned into a business model. Post Hoffman, it was so much more about, you know what? We should have theme music every Wednesday
before our sales meetings. Let's have theme music and then that's going to set the tone for how the meeting goes. Let's laugh a little and let's play and have some fun. I mean, it's amazing and and miraculous that I don't think anybody has ever died from real estate, Drew. And so, like, I'm in a I'm in a really wonderful place in a great field of interest that doesn't have that has probably a 0% mortality rate. So let's lighten up and let everybody have some fun because what we're doing is we're
enabling them to have better lives. And then we're bringing, you know, this incredible gift of homeownership to people, you know, from all over the world. So from that standpoint, it's, you know, that changed, I think, that levity. It wasn't just at the office that that changed. It changed with our friends. It changed with, you know, just kind of the community around us that we were building. And it
changed between me and Matt. You know, we're now we have more tools to communicate with each other, and and I'm not weaponizing things like achievement quite as much. I mean, those old habits die hard. And and I think that, you know, nobody is perfect, but it's it's allowed me to really say, Matt, it has his journey. I have my journey, and we can really just be respectful of both of those and build something together. That sentence stopped me
in my tracks there. The things that I used to weaponize against myself, I turned into a business model. There's a truth in there, isn't there? Totally. You know, where it it was yeah. The world was rewarding that. And I was gonna that's what I was gonna say. And it worked and it made you successful, and yet it didn't do all the things you wanted it to do. And so then you brought in theme music along with ecstatic dance
as a part of your journey. And so you and Matt brought your classes together for yearly reunions, and now those classes know each other well because of the fact that you were each in one of them. And I imagine you've expanded that as well. You know, it's funny because it it expanded itself. I said to Matt, I'm so curious about the people that you met in your process because he had the same reaction I did. Although he's he was even he was more
skeptical heading into the process. And he said, I don't think I'm gonna fall in love with any of these people. Like, as he's going in and I just said, you're gonna love them all. That, I mean, it's the strangest thing. And so coming out, he said, you know what? It was the strangest thing. I love them all. And I was like, well, see, I told you. But but so then I said, well, I wanna meet them. So we invited our classes to join together that 1st year.
And then what happened was we we ended up meeting other people locally in Jackson that had gone through the process, and they asked if they could join us. And then I had people calling me, you know, that I'd never met before that said, hi. You don't know me, but I've been through the HOPWA process that I heard you're doing this reunion, and I really need that connection. Can I come? And, you know, I mean, so it
ended up just growing and growing. And now it's it is just this incredible amalgamation where, you know, Matt and I sometimes say, whose process was that person again? For the, you know, like but it's it is this incredible fraternity of people that just are so special and so open. And the thing that I think is one of the most profound things about being a Hoffman grad is that you can drop in and connect from that heart space in 2 seconds with somebody else. And and we
see that happening now. It's it's incredible. You've got these little we'll host everyone, and then you've got these little pods that break off with people that are just starting to talk and connect because everyone is doing it from a baseline of trust that is established at Hoffman. Whether they've done the process together or not, whether they know each other or not, simply having that language, that, experience of connecting to their heart allows them to drop in so quickly. Is
that it? That's it. And and so it's like we've all got this tool set, but there's an accountability though too, Drew, that is attached to saying, I you know what? I'm a I'm a Hoffman grad, Where it's like you're almost expected to do that because it's something that we all know we all know what it takes. There's that's hard work at you know, during that week. There's soul searching and tears and revelations, and it's hard work.
And so it's almost like there's this culture where it's just says, you know, 1, this is a safe place, but 2, make sure that you're, you know, you're accountable to the tools that the process has given you. When you're serious about change is an apt tagline, isn't it? A 100%. You know, it's I can't tell you how many people we've suggested go to Hoffman, and the ones that do are always the
ones that were ready. You know, the ones that say, oh, I I totally wanna go, but I'm just my schedule is so packed, and I just can't do it right now. And I've gotta get you know, and my assistant just left me. You're like, okay. That's you know, that's fine. You'll go when you're ready. In those gatherings, Julie, change is hard enough.
And so doing it by yourself makes it even harder gathering together, connecting, and sharing, kind of getting out of the silos that we are all sort of self imposed in and finding the connection in others, why why does it work? Why is it so important that people have that connection in doing this important work? I think that, again, it goes back to the the lies that we tell ourselves to keep ourselves small.
And what we're doing is we believe in those lies that we're safe and that no one else has an experience that they can share that's relatable. No one else can you know, I can't show myself to anyone else. And and so we keep ourselves safe by just being small rather than saying, you know what? If I, if I crack my heart open and I just shine my heart at you, you know, and I'm gonna just tell you the way that it is, and I'm gonna do the
best that I possibly can. And it might not be perfect, but it's going to be from the right place. There is so much more humanity in that. And there's so much more community in that, that I think that that was really the secret that I needed to learn when I went was that it's actually so much more gracious and so much more ingratiating to show people the vulnerable sides and to not try to be so perfect because everybody
is worrying about their own stuff. You know, they're not they're not concerned about what Julie Bavel is doing at all. And and I was convinced that the entire world was what had some sort of obsession with me and what I'm doing. And and, you know, again, it was all about keeping myself small so that I was safe and that it was the complete opposite. I love that that concern that the the world is obsessed with what Julie Foppel's doing and realizing that
they're not concerned about Julie. They're concerned about themselves and self conscious in their own way. That's exactly right. And and so the more that you can connect and and create that commonality, then it's it's miraculous what happens. You know?
Then then you have things like Hoffman, and you have things like the wonderful reunions that we have the good fortune of posting and and, you know, these incredibly impactful friendships and relationships that just I mean, that will be around forever. And you've brought those into your business world
as well. Is that right? Realm of my startup is entirely based on the fact that, you you know, it's got a technology component, but it is it is 100% valued in the community of professionals that we brought together. And all of that was born at Hoffman.
I mean, like, that's honestly, the bravery that it took for me to forge out and to start something new, that came from a from a visioning section that, like, it was so there was so much about Realm that is absolutely rooted in Hoffman and the the fact that, you know, again, it goes back to just connecting people and creating a space where people
feel safe. So I did that through the start up and then through the real estate company and and through our, you know, through our involvement in the Jackson community as a whole. Julie, what like to to reflect and go back and see the connection of Hoffman to your work, Hoffman to your, community, and then to remember your process in multiple moments. What's that like for you to to talk about and feel into? You know, I am overwhelmed with gratitude because it is something that has been so
impactful. And I think that as a result, we have had, you know, colleagues that have gone to. It is such a it's such a beautiful gift in our lives that it really makes it makes me want to give back. I know that Matt feels the very same way. And it's it's hard because it's so humbling when you think about the impact that the process has had and the change that it has had to my core. I don't know how I'll ever be able
to to repay that. But I will spend every single day trying to be the best version myself so that I'm at least honoring it. That is such a beautiful way to finish. I don't know how to repay, but I will spend the rest of my life being the best version of myself as a way of honoring that experience and the institute and the process. Beautiful. Julie, I am I'm grateful for this conversation and give Matt, a big pre COVID Hoffman hug. We can't wait for that. That's been the
hardest part about quarantine. Right? It's it's like Sure. I just wanna hug it out. I love that. Oh, it's very special. Well, I'm so grateful to I mean, it's just wonderful because, I mean, you have been an incredible gift in in both of our lives. And and, you know, you've certainly added to the incredible community that that we have. And and I'm just I'm just so grateful to know you and to have your incredible light for this conversation.
Thank you, and and cheers to team Fapo and and what's next for the 2 of you in realm and your whole Jackson community. Thank you. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Rasa Ingrassi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves, in each other, and in the world.
To find out more, please go to Hoffman Institute dot org.