Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Sharon Moore, and I'm one of your hosts. And on this podcast, we talk to Hoffman graduates about how their courageous journey inward impacted their personal lives, but also how it impacted their community and the world at large. So tune in and listen in and hear how our graduates authentic selves, how their love, how their spirits are making a positive impact on our world today.
In other words, get to know their love's everyday radius. Alright. Welcome back, everybody. Today, my guest is Hilton Nathanson. This is a man who's been on quite an incredible journey, both in his personal and professional life. He's the chairman of Marble Bar Asset Management, the CEO of Firefly Capital, and the founder of Red Deer, which are all under the same theme, asset management and technology. But here's a fun curveball for you people.
He's also the producer and the inspiration behind the movie, Chasing Wonders. So much to learn. I can't wait to hear more about this journey, this awakening, the process of turning an idea into a movie. Hilton, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Sharon. Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be here. So I wanna dive right into the movie, but I'm gonna pause for a minute and at least anchor us into the reason we're here, which is the
Love's Everyday Radius podcast. So let's start with your connection to Hoffman. From my understanding, you've been surrounded by people who have taken the process and have witnessed their change and have been inspired as, as a result. Can you tell us more about that? Yes. Exactly. It was quite bizarre. There was a, a number of, people on my wife's side of the family that started to be, exposed to Hoffman, I'd say around 2,000 and 6,
2007, something like that. It it began. And my wife is just constantly talking to me about, about this process that, people on her side of the family seem to be going on and, with with wonderful results, almost life changing results for for for different people. And they started to talk about it amongst themselves. And before we knew it, you know, probably 8 to 10 people from from from my wife's side were were all going on this, this process called the Hoffman process.
So I started hearing about it secondhand from from people, and it and it was a fascinating, a fascinating journey to hear, how many people, how many people's lives it seemed to be affecting. It had a huge impact on my wife who began to, I guess, wanted to to sponsor, for want of a better word, people, you know, again, on her side and her friends to go on this program because, she was so taken with the reactions and the responses that people were
were getting. So I think she sent, some of her friends and then some of her, other family members on this this process. In fact, I remember getting a couple of letters from people who are obviously on the process. At the end of it, they were sending us letters. So by about the 3rd or 4th one we got, I was I was beginning to understand now this is all part of the, the journey, and I was I was delighted to receive our our letters. So it it really started from from that. What's it like
to receive the letter? What was it like? Who is this? This is not the person I sent. The first one was definitely that. The first one I remember thinking, wow, they've really changed. I mean, they they really seem to be in a great spot. It was like, what Kool Aid are they having? Can I have some of that? The second one was was was similar. And, again, you you began to get a sense
of the place they're in. And there was this real transformation that you could just you could just feel from reading those letters that, you know, they're in a really reflective space, quite a beautiful space, which was extremely powerful. And when there are people you are very closely connected with and then you understand that that they could choose 1 person, I don't know if it's 1 person to write to or, you know, how many
people they write to. But to be to be involved in that and to be personalized in their process in that way is extremely beautiful and, quite quite soul enhancing as enriching as a, you know, as a recipient of that. So it was very special and I would say, most of them of of the 4 that we received, 3 were were very clearly in a great place and one was going through a lot of deep thought, huge reflection on
almost their next stage in life. You could see that that person was going to emerge from this process and make some changes whereas the others were very much appreciating what they had. But in all cases, you could really feel what a powerful experience they'd been on. So this is interesting. So you're you're unique in that a 100% of the people we interview thus far have been graduates. You get to be our insight into
what we say happens. Right? Our podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius because we believe that when people do this work on themselves, they go back out into the world and become more communal, more conscious of the collective, more aware of their impact, etcetera, etcetera. I'm your ring in, Sharon. I slipped through the net. Exactly. Somehow, I'm just here, and you're like, what's Hilton doing here? But that's that's great. I've I'd loved it. I'm delighted to be your first ever ring in, if
you like, in in this. Brilliant. Well, you actually get to represent all the people who get impacted by the loved ones who take the process. Perfect. Even better. Right? So I'm curious. So so, you know, and and our hope is that when people take the process, there is a positive impact that ripples out of them, hence, the word love's everyday radius. So I'm curious if if did you find yourself suddenly looking inward? Did you find yourself, questioning things in your life or being inspired
to be different? Like, what was the actual impact of you being on the, you know, recipient of their love's everyday radius? Yeah. It's it's it was actually quite timely because it was, it was actually coincidence in a sense of my own my own journey as my wife was talking about this this process and and, you know, her family members' experiences, etcetera. I was going through my own journey. We're all going through our own journeys, aren't we? I suppose, you know, and and that never
stops. The journey I was going on began to collide with the Hoffman journey to some extent. I lost so my background is in asset management and technology is, as you said, I I'm I'm from Australia originally. I came to London in 1992. I was 22 years old and I somehow slipped through the nets and got a job offer at Goldman Sachs with a a CV that really didn't really warrant it. It was a, you know, a degree in Australia from a university not many people have heard of. It's
okay. Great. It's nothing marvelous. Somehow it's in the right time, right place, and I really wanted to get into finance and I really wanted to get into Goldman Sachs. And somehow after 65 interviews, I managed to to to get to to get in. And I I remember walking on to sort of, you know, the top of sort of
the Ewan Plaza sort of hotel. We were sent off to Wall Street for our training program and just thinking I cannot believe that I'm actually at Goldman's and and here at this this amazing bank that I never thought in a in a 1000000 years I'd be able to get into, but I always knew I wanted. And that started my career in finance and, you know, I worked in asset management and and technology and, you know, things were going going pretty well. And then unfortunately in in 2,003
my mother passed away quite suddenly. She had an accident and and and she she she died quite quite young. She was 61 and I wanted to set up a, a charity in her name and to give back in in whatever way I could, whatever way I knew best. And that time I was, you know, 30 33 years old and lost my mother and and I knew markets. So I began to to set up a charity and give talks and lectures to university students and others on financial markets, what drove markets, etcetera.
And this became quite a regular occurrence for for a few, you know, for a few years after 2,003, 4 to have a number of these talks to different students about I'd give a 5 minute background on my own journey coming from from Australia, getting into Goldwyn's, and then getting to finance, and then talk about the markets. And I was pretty sure at the end of these, talks that most people will be quite interested
in the markets. And, sure enough, when I started doing the talks, I'd have a number of people queuing up to ask me questions, And I thought, great. They're gonna talk about finance. They're gonna talk about the markets, and, they wanna understand what drives, human nature, psychology. And the first two questions were were on were on myself and my career and how I managed to follow my path and know what I wanted to do, and the next
one was the same. And and sure enough, there were 12 questions that were actually from the 12 people, and not one of them was about markets. So, it became quite clear to me that the interest actually was was much more initially around Hilton. How did you leave Australia with a fairly ordinary degree and get into the number one investment bank in the world, follow your path, end up on Wall Street, set up your own business, like, how did you know that was your path and how do you do
that? And what advice could you have for me to to to try and do that? And so that was the, I guess, the starting point of of my journey in in, you know, I guess, helping people's careers and development. And the more I began to talk to people about this, it became apparent there were a lot of limiting beliefs. And, unfortunately, a lot of those limiting beliefs just seemed to come back to their parents all the time. When I'd start talking about, well, what
do you wanna do? What's your journey going to be, what's your passion, what really drives you, where are you going in life, and, you know, could you do this? And and when I'd start talking, they said, well, I don't think I can do that because, you know, my parents want me to do this or I'd be letting them down if I did that or I don't think they'd want me to do that or and it was so prevalent in the conversations. It's like, woah. What
hold do our parents have over us? And and why do they stop us inadvertently doing things or even subconsciously or sometimes consciously? What is the hold that they have over us that somehow stops us being who we should be and who we can be and who we are meant to be? Why is that? And that started this interest that I began in sort of, I guess, psychology and and and understanding these drivers and and and what have you.
And at the same time as I'm doing my lectures and talks, my wife, Louise, is is beginning to talk to me about all of these Hoffman themes and ideas and and thoughts that are coming from, again, her side of the family and and what people are going through. And it really felt like there was this connection of the limiting beliefs that we have and, the impact that our our parents have
over us. And that was really how my journey collided with Hoffman at that time, and I've become I've just been fascinated with it ever since. Yeah. And, woo, lot of overlap there. I can see why you're probably just amazed by, woah, here's my unique journey and then here's my wife reflecting back to me this experience that speaks to exactly where I've landed. Now, I want to actually go back. There's so many things here, but
I want to go back real quick. You know, you said and that's where I started wanting to help people was noticing that they have these limiting beliefs after they're revealing that to you after your lectures. But I want to take it a step back. And and I noticed that your mom passed away. That's not easy. It was you were young and and it was sudden. And you know what you did? You started a charity in her name.
That, to me, tells me that it was long before this that you were already wanting to be a force of goodness and change and generosity. And so it only makes sense that through this, it's, it's almost like it lended it, it was a setup based on your inclination to do good in the world. Yeah. I mean, that's very kind. And, and I, I, maybe part of that is, is, is true. It is true. It comes from my mother itself because, my mother was actually quite
unwell for for many years. She was quite frail at the end and she had, you know, actually, she had a, yeah, a number of issues after childbirth and and it was just a difficult life. My mother had a had a difficult life. And as a child sometimes you're always very conscious
of your parents. I remember dropping my child off at a at school when he was about 10 and at that age he's like okay dad you can go now I don't need you to walk to the bus stop and it was the first sign of he's old enough now that I'm kind of could be a potential embarrassment. So when I grew up, you know, your parents, your mother, and if they have any sort of issues, you're like, woah, this is kind of like, you know, it may not be too cool and and what have
you. And so so I always wondered, I guess, you know, sometimes what people thought of my mother or what what, you know, what they thought. And after she passed away, I remember there was just like an outpouring of of of grief from people who she'd come across. Some of the bank manager in Sydney sort of phoning up almost in tears saying your mother always came every Christmas with a present for me and the staff. And she'd always she'd always remember people.
And it was a real lesson to me that actually, you know, people just they really see reality. They really it doesn't matter what's on the outside or how it's just they know. You know, you can't fool people. People just know goodness when they see it, And my mother was goodness and and no one had a bad word to say about
her. And so I suppose whatever I was trying to do was to keep her memory going and alive and actually that that whatever trouble someone has, whatever you go through, if you're fundamentally a good person, and my mother was an amazing person, people see that and they recognize that. And therefore, the first thing was put mom's name front and center of the charity and be all out there because she was an amazing
person, and she only did good. And and more than that, people were able to see the goodness in her and that taught me people just know. You know, it's like you're a child at school, you remember when you're at school, who were the amazing teachers and who weren't? That's in you when you're even 4 or 5 years old. You just kind of know who are these amazing teachers and and
they stay with you. And that element of this humanity being able to sort of pick on who do you really like and who is really an amazing person, it's instilled in us. And but it taught me at that stage from my mother that actually, you know, people see goodness. Doesn't matter how they just see it and they recognize it. And that's important. So this was a way of keeping her spirit, her goodness kind of continuing to be present in our physical world. Exactly.
Exactly. So I have a I have a question for you, a little bit of a switching gears. But, you know, this you paint this picture of you know, I just went to this college. It wasn't the greatest college and and but I always knew I wanted to do this. And next thing I know, I land this job. Was there was there any sort of moment
in your career? I and I imagine that it just kind of the trajectory just kept going upward and upward, and you continued to experience success in your career around asset management and technology. Was there ever a point where was there a turning point? Was there, you know, you kept kind of achieving, okay, now I wanna achieve this. Oh, I achieved it. Now I wanna do this. I achieved it. What would happen every time you achieve these things? That's a really good question. That's a hard
question to to answer. I mean, there's probably 2 two two sort of answer to that. I didn't come from London. I didn't come from Australia and land magically at Goldman's day 1. I I I've spent probably 14 months, first of all, in London trying to get initially a job then working my way from one firm to the next. I couldn't get a job in London when I first arrived.
I went to a town called Birmingham and worked at a firm for a few months and I remember in the middle of winter, you know, it was so cold and growing up in Australia I'd never seen that, I'd never experienced that cold in my life and here I am walking toward work in a bus stop at some firm in the middle of a city I'd never heard of before. And I'm thinking, what am I what am I doing? Like, actually, what am I doing? And there was this constant thing. I've come to London to get
experience. I've come to get into finance. This is the journey. And you just know, okay, this is what I'm doing. So it's okay. So there was this, I guess, this this belief that actually you have a plan. I'm coming to get experience in London. I wanna get that experience, and it drives you, and it just keeps you it keeps you going. To answer the question about what's the change and what keeps happening, I think there's a there's a, your heart speaks to you and I
would say this to my children. You you just know when something needs to change or when something's not right. Your heart's telling you something. It started for me look, First of all, getting into Goldman's was was for me, you know, an amazing amazing break. That was really my my my break. I only stayed there several years and then left to set up on my own. And I remember at the end of my time at Goldman's, the sort of end of year 1, watching people as they were paid bonuses at
the end of year 1. Now I love my time at Goldman's. I could not speak more highly about the people and the culture and everything. There was a but, and the but was you'd see people end of the year get paid, and they'd walk out of the office from having a 2 minute conversation on salary and they look really miserable. And I was like, that's really like, hang on a sec. You wait all year to
do that. Like, it it can't just be this pay at the end of the year to be told what you've made and what you've not made and you're not in charge of your own destiny. And there was this huge driver that I had, which was I wanna be in charge of my destiny. I really wanna do that, and I don't wanna wait. And so I just kept listening to my heart. So there's not a magic formula for getting it right or wrong other than just listen to your heart because it will tell you if you feel right and if it
feels in the right place. And if something's not right, you need to change that. So I've always just constantly listened to that. So for me, there's not a formula in move to the next. It it's just when does something feel right or wrong and listen to that and constantly listen to the heart. And if you don't listen to it, you really can be in danger because it will stop giving you the signals, and it will it will just slowly fade
away. So you must listen to that when it tells you the time's to change or something's not quite right. Change it. I always say to my to my children or people, you know, there's no point complaining about something. It's what are you gonna do about it? You know, you're gonna do what are you gonna do about it? You either gotta speak to someone about it or get out of that situation yourself. The worst you can do is sit in that
situation and carry on doing it. So, Sharon, I suppose for me, it's always been just listen to that heart and the signals when you feel you need to change or another journey or you feel a bit flat at the heart saying you need another challenge or something else. Listen to it and never ever ignore it. And so has your heart ever given you a message that you were questioning? Like, what? Really? Leave Goldman Sachs? Are you kidding me? I just bit got here. It's been only a year.
Yeah. The the the heart doesn't the the head questions it. So the heart tells you this is not for me. The heart tells you I wanna set up on my own. I've got an Australian passport. If this doesn't work out in London, do you know what? I've got amazing experience. Go back to go back to Australia. You have to be able to take that risk and just throw caution to the to the wind. You know, I think Napoleon Hill writes sometimes you
have to be prepared to burn bridges. It doesn't mean you do want to you want to connect, you want to disconnect from people, but you've got to get in that situation of, well, okay. If that doesn't work, I can do I can I can do this? And so for my my mind was, if it doesn't work, I will go to, Australia. So I'm gonna take that risk. I'm gonna take the risk to move on and set up on my on my own. So bring us into your life. When was
I used Goldman as an example. But when was there a moment where you know, because I find this to be very relatable. Right? I would guess that a huge percentage of listeners, if not all of them, are familiar with the struggle of the heart says one thing, the mind says the other. Suddenly, we're in a mess. So give us an example.
When your heart spoke to you, your mind was questioning and doing what the mind does, and you knew and and let us into questioning and doing what the mind does, and you knew and and let us into that journey of how you stayed true to that message from your heart. So it it it's really quite amazing because it's it's actually gonna bring my wife into this because I have to give her so much credit for so much of my of of my life but also I think this is important for for many people.
There's there's a kind of process that one seems to go through which is for me okay let me give Goldwyn's as an example I'd been at Goldwyn's for 2 years I loved it, I was saying to Louise, my wife, you know, I want to set up on my own, I don't want to be told at the end of the year what I am earning, what I am not earning, I want to be in charge of my destiny. I am 25, I could start Goldwyn another 10 years and do it but actually I feel
now I want to do it. My heart is telling me I want to do it now. Again, my father was saying, Hilton, you might be taking leave of your senses, you know, you've got into Goldmans, you're lucky to get to get in there. I did it. I remember having this conversation with my dad. We still talk about it. He's like, what are you even doing thinking about it? I said, dad, I I just kind of, you know, I'm gonna back myself. I've gotta do it. So that was my sort of my my
heart was telling me one thing. My head is telling me my father's saying this. My dad's my dad's saying this. And then I had my wife. And Louise was saying, Hilton, I absolutely believe in you. This is what you got to do. Just do it. And and so she helped push me. The reason I say that is it's so important for people to surround themselves with believers in what they're going to do and to give them the confidence and the courage to take
those risks. You know, taking risk is a very hard thing and I don't underestimate the challenges that has for people. My advice, again, I always said to my, what would I tell my kids, is to make sure you're surrounding yourself with someone who who really believes in you. And I had that with, with my wife. But I've seen people before who want to take a risk and they know it's right for them. But sometimes their partner is saying, yeah, you're being
irresponsible. You know, we've got 2 children. We've got a mortgage. You know, what are you thinking? What are you doing? And they just they get into their subconscious mind. They talk at them. They talk and they don't really back them or listen to them or maybe they do, but they're just too scared. That can be catastrophic. That can really affect the chances that you have. It's a little bit like I was saying before about the parent influence over you.
I was able to sort of bat my you know, bat away my dad's my dad's comments in a way maybe I was 10,000 miles away from him and and, you know, it's it's it's easy on the other side of the world, but even then it was, you know, that difficult thing to do. But I have seen and I would say we've all seen the challenges of the partnerships of of people around you, parents being a number one and your your spouse or partner being just as influential.
And, that's really difficult. That's really, really difficult. And again, my my thoughts, if my children marry a partner and I'd say to them, listen, you've got to sit down. You need to really explain why this is so important to you, why this is your journey and your calling, and how you have to do that. And you'll make it work. And if you know what, somehow you'll make ends meet. And if you have to work evenings to pay for something, you'll do it. You'll survive.
You'll get by. You won't you won't starve, but you have to do this and back me on this. And if once you say yes, don't pull back. Don't say, oh, it's not working. It's not working. You cannot be around negativity when you're taking risks. It it doesn't work. So you've got to make sure that your your your orbit and your the sphere around you is radiating positivity and belief and energy that allows you to be the best you can be. And for that, I am forever grateful to my wife.
Yeah. I mean, in the Hoffman, in the Hoffman world, there's a bunch of, concepts that, you know, in in the process, you that internalized parent, you talked about the voice of your dad, even though thousands of miles away, thousands of years away, these these voices still live in us and we call that the negative internalized parent in Hoffman. And we have all kinds of practices that that we do, you know, for the rest of our lives because these voices still still
live in us. So I think I think the partners play a role and, oh my god, is it nice to have a partner who really believes in you? And I still think, even with that, it was still something in you. Maybe you're you know, also in Hoffman, we have the quadrinity. You and I just did a quadrinity check. That spirit of yours had the microphone, and you listened to it, and it guided you. And it's guided you, it sounds like, several several moments throughout your
journey. In fact, let's talk about how you went from asset management and technology to this movie. That must have been a whisper that came into your ear from your from your heart. Yeah. That was that was that really was. I was involved in a film festival for a number of years. I was actually president of the film festival in in in London for for several years. I was exposed to
film, and I loved it. I loved this sort of creative medium film, and, I'm a huge, film goer, and it's just a beautiful way of of having stories being told. So I had a a little bit of exposure to to to that for a while. And I suppose there wasn't suddenly this thing I I want to make a film. It didn't it didn't enter my head in that way. I was on holiday with my with my wife. I'd I'd sold the I'd sold the business in 2008, and I'd I'd I'd reacquired it in in 2013. And my wife said to me, she's you
look really terrible. You look really exhausted. You know, get go and have a break. And and so we went off on holiday together and we were in Spain. And, I had this bizarre kind of epiphany as I'm lying down looking over some Spanish mountains in a on
a hotel retreat. And I just had this idea of a film and it just entered my head as it as it does of, a little boy growing up in sort of vineyards and, you know, having a Spanish influence and and and growing up and and all of these sort of thoughts around, you know, my own experiences and, my own journey and career advice and development of what Louise had been talking to people
on her side with Hoffman. I had this idea for film and it was there and I turned around and I said to Louise, I just got this idea for film and I started talking about it and I said this is the story, this is it, and I I want to do it. So what are you talking about? I said no. I really I really really want to do it and so I wrote it down. I said I'm going to do it. I'm a huge believer when you want to do something, put pen to paper, sign your name to it, and I'm going to do it. So
I wrote then and there. I am physically going to do this film. I don't know how I'm gonna go about it, but I'm going to I'm going to do it, and I had this this vision. So that was the heart saying, I wanna do a film. Here's the idea for it. Now you, now you make it happen. And I suppose, Shout, to make anything happen, you know, I always think there's 3 things. There's 3 really key ingredients that have to come to make anything happen.
First of all, you have to have just absolutely, like, undying passion like it just has got to get into your soul which is I'm gonna do this not just a whim and for me that was wow I really really want to do this film and I'm gonna do it so the passion was a 100% there the second thing is then you've got to
find the people. You've got to surround yourself with the best people you can, and that is, you know, calls and networks and who do I speak to and who's made a film and how do I speak to this one and what I don't know how you even have the faintest idea about how to go about making a film. There's a a treatment and then you get a screenplay writer then you get the other producers then you find the the cast, the director, all of this just takes, you know, a huge amount
of time. So the people and making sure that you're connected to the people that can make that happen is is key. And the third point, which is, you know, it's it's sort of 1 and 2, the output of 1 and 2 is, you know, anyone can have a great idea. Anyone can talk to lots of good people about the idea. But that third point is you've got to
take action. You have to start that step of okay this is what we're actually going to do it and so I've been having meetings in my house with co producers and then saying what are we going to do and then they said it's going to take a few years and and and the action we just started and so never in my wildest dreams did I think it would be a 7 and a half year process which I'm happy to talk about but that was the journey and, it has been an absolutely amazing
journey that has, you know, semi life changing. It's it's incredible. And so the the passion, what was your, you know, I love you, undying or unwavering passion. Like that's something that keeps your soul just enlivened. What is the why behind this? Because you it's not like you said, I want to make a film. It was the story that happened in you that you wanted to reveal. So what why? Why does the story feel important to be out in the world?
2 things. I mean, in terms of the passion, why is passion so important in the first place? It's a really you know, it's a keyword and it's so key. I think life is so hard and you get so many obstacles thrown at you that unless you've got enough passion to overcome whatever comes your way, chances are you're just gonna roll over and say, oh, it's just too hard.
So you have to really really want something so badly and so much that whatever someone throws at you, whatever life throws at you, whatever circumstances are thrown at you, you, you know, you you've got to be able to to, to have a shield around you and that comes from passion. So it was this, this, I guess, journey that I've been on and again from from Louise and and the experiences of of of the Hoffman process and my own thoughts around
parents and this own journey of life. Look, I'm sure you have, I'm sure we all have, I know people on my own side of the family, close relatives, people that you know, no family is going to be away from this, that you just see such tragic waste of time, a waste of life. We've all seen it, and there's nothing that I find more soul destroying than than just witnessing wasted relationships with people that you love together. And we've all seen
them. I've seen them. You know, it it it is just something that if you can you can somehow, help in whatever way to make people aware of that and almost just short circuit those wasted years that you never ever get back. If there's some way of trying to show that via film and trying to show that message which is, you know, if you're not careful, you're gonna have toxicity in your life for a number of years, you're never gonna get those years back. How can we try and short circuit
that? You know, you can read all the books you like, you can you can go and look at it, but somehow there's something in a film that can really touch people in certain ways that maybe books can't or courses can't or experiences can't and I thought, you know, I really want to make this film because I I want to try to help people who maybe are slightly lost. And some of that could be my own friends, my own family, someone who just is I get that. You know, I get that.
I get that relationship that I've got with my child or my father, and and I understand a bit more from this film that actually that I wouldn't have learned otherwise. And so that really kept me going to just want to tell this story as truthfully as we could about the power of, you know, father son parent relationships and, you know, the damage that can be done, but also the beauty and the power that you have to heal. And, you know, you've got that power. What a waste not to use it or
not even to be aware of it. And sometimes it's just our own awareness. So it was it that kept me going for most of that time and there were times Sharon where this was well this is a really difficult journey it's like what am I doing? Jesus, what do I know about film and who am I to make a film and how do I even you know, last this seven and a half years? And why is it taking so long? But we just kept on and on and on. And, you know, Louise was involved with me, you know, pretty much through
every step. And, you know, we went to the editing suite and spent a year editing the film and waiting for the boy to grow up. And and it was a beautiful experience for me to work with her on that as well. And, you know, she kept putting in a lot of, you know, her journey into it and my journey and what we've been witnessing. So it's actually a really beautiful process. So the why was a story was we're passionate about. And I say without something you really believe in and that passion,
a, it doesn't it's not real. And b, chances are it it's so hard to see through because you just it's too easy for it to fall over because you don't believe it enough. I mean, the main toxicity I saw that was kind of right in your face, like, you you couldn't help but see it was from the dad. From the dad to the son and from the dad to the in to the father and to the grand well, yeah, to the grandpa through the wife's family. Right? And so
that was beautifully encompassed. It's like, who do you not wanna be in that picture? The dad who's who's pushing away all closeness, thinking he's doing right by his child, but only pushing him farther and farther away. Were there other, kind of like, what's the word I'm looking for, like, subparts of the message? Because that message, you know, I take my hat off. That message came in loud and clear, the toxicity and you and you saw he was in your own in his own
prison. You saw that it's not what he wanted, but he just didn't know any better, which is literally to a tee what we teach in in Hoffman. Right? That we We try. We all try our best. Don't we? We we try. I mean, some sometimes we try. Some maybe we try harder, but we we try. I think as parents, we we we do try. There's a lot that's there.
I I think it's it's if I was distilling it down into sort of simple bite size messages from the film and from our experiences is look, I think a child really needs to know as soon as they can, as as young as they can, what a parent has been through in their lives. A parent has had a life before us. You know, a person is a parent. Parent is what we see, but they were a person before they were a parent.
And so the quicker we can understand that as a child and understand the lives that they led, clearly, we might see them through a different lens. Otherwise, we are just hardwired to think that it is all because of us. Whatever the parents are doing is because of me or because of us, and so we personalize everything and we blame ourselves for that or we think it is us and that we are not good enough.
I don't think there's a line in the in the film where where, the boy Michael says, you know, I don't know what he wants, but I'm not the child he ever wanted. He's talking to a friend. I think we all go through some point our thinking, are we really the child that our our parents want and and what do they want? And it's not really us. And and that's
loud and clear in the film. But I think the second thing, Sharon, is that, you know, the the parent really has to take the plunge and confide in their children. And that goes back to risk just generally.
And so often we don't. So often we think our children won't understand us or we we want to try to protect them, we want to hold them high above our our problems and so we don't really talk to them and it's amazing when you do talk to a child and confide in them how much a child, you know, will take in and how much they'll teach you back and we just don't do that enough and so in the film it was very much around at what point can you take that mess? Can can you really confide in your child
and then just stop that disconnect? And there were so many times you just wish you could grab 2 parents 2 people a parent and a child and say right. You talk to him now about your life beforehand and really open up and and let the
child understand what you've been through. You know, it's such a it's such a shame because those two things, you know, the parent doesn't take the doesn't really confide in their child enough and the child doesn't know what the parent lived through and so you have this disconnect this this miscommunication that carries on and wastes so many so many years and so the film is can we short circuit that? Can we teach our children and be taught by them? You know, our children are not us.
They are themselves completely. I think we said this at the end of the film and that's, you know, how do we make that happen? Actually my sister-in-law went to see it in Australia. It premiered at the, Adelaide Film Festival and the Gold Coast Film Festival. It's actually released in, it actually launches in LA on the 4th June, so a few weeks away. It hasn't been released yet officially. And she saw it at the festival and she rang me up and she said, I want
everybody everyone needs to see this film. I really feel, I came out of this and thought about how I'm gonna parent differently. And I was fantastic. You know what? If that's how you think about this film, that's worth everything. If it just helps you be a better parent, fantastic. If it helps you understand your parents, fantastic. If it can just change someone's life, it's been worth it. And so have you had a moment in your parenting where you have been able to
confide in your children? And if so, are you can you share with us? Yes. I I I have. It's interesting because I I went on a course actually, at INSEAD in in France, for 2 years, which is called consulting and and consulting and coaching for change. It was all about these principles. It's all about, you know, we all work on different times and different clocks and how we're all independent and you've got to give our children their own time and space.
So I have myself, I think, parented differently because of the journey I've been on. I, have always said to my children, I encourage them to to follow their heart. Don't do what I think, and I really mean that. And I think they really know that they've they've got both my wife and my backing to just follow their their passion and their and their beliefs, you know, and one child wanted to change schools that if that's what you really believe, you you've got to back yourself. You forget
what I think. Forget what school I think. What school do you think is best for you? What university are you going to go and study? What course are you going to do? Well, actually, I don't want to go to university. Okay. That's fine then then don't go now. But let them find their own time. Let them find their own journey. You know, catch them when they fall. Be a safety net for them. Let them make their own decisions. I've really tried to pair it as best as I can and I I certainly don't sit here
preaching that I have all the answers. I don't know any parent that that does. But just to back them, just to know that you're backing them, backing their judgment, they'll come to you for advice when they need it. And they ask it. Is if they know you're not gonna, you know, ram it down their throats, that that's hopefully a beautiful relationship we can we can give. So there's no manual to be a parent, is there? You're not sort
of taught how to be a parent. We're all we're all winging it as we go along. But I think that journey has helped me dramatically just to say that, you know, people people's time clocks are different, you know, and it you don't know when that's gonna happen, so don't force it. It will come, but let it come. And so so I wanna ask, one last question about the movie and then I have a couple others and then we'll we'll
have to start to wrap up. But that moment where, the father and Sav meet and, you know, they hug and he basically confides in him, right, to to use your The first time you see them talking properly. Right. And so I'm curious if you've had that moment in your life with your kids or whatever version it is. Have you been able to have that same again, with within reason, what was your version of that? I haven't had those sort of crying, hugging
breakdown moments with children where you confide. I have tried very hard to have difficult conversations with my children, to be very frank and very honest about things that are going on in our lives that may be difficult and and to not shield them from it. And I don't remember a a a sort of first huge conversation. Wow. That that really stands out.
But I would say that that's been part of our way of parenting as much as we can, both Louise and I, to, not try to shield the children from the issues of life. Okay. My question now before we wrap up is what's next? That's a good question, I have a policy as of every few years going going I actually started on the the holiday with with with my wife and forcing myself to write down some things that make you vulnerable. I think at the end of the day, we all need to be pushing ourselves.
There's a there's a there's a famous slide, isn't there? Life's on the wire. They're always just hanging around, which is the famous title. And I think that's right. So constantly making yourself, vulnerable. So what are the things I think are gonna make myself vulnerable? One thing is to take acting classes because I think that's making yourself really vulnerable. So I vowed that
that would be something I would do. I have no, you know, inherent innate ability to be an actor but actually it's something that from the film business the next step is great let's see what it's like to to even take acting classes and how embarrassing to be on stage. And, but that's great because that's putting yourself out there to be to be vulnerable even if it's just a a few courses that one that one does.
So so things that make you vulnerable, things that you're taking risks, not being safe, constantly being testing and, and putting yourself out there is my constant my constant thing. There's an amazing organization. It's called You Me Bum Bum Train. I don't know if I don't know if it's actually known in America, but it's a it's a group of people that, you know, you go into different rooms, you go into different things, and and you can't reveal too
much. But it's a bit like Hoffman. You you you you're not supposed to say too much about what what one does. But but you put yourself into vulnerable situations and you go through these these different events and these different situations and I remember doing that and thinking this is incredible like that's amazing. I've never been in that position before. Isn't that incredible?
I've never experienced that before. So if I can just continue to experience things in life that are new, different, vulnerable, making you grow, taking you out of your comfort zone, I think that's what, you know, I want to make sure that that I'm doing. It's been difficult in COVID in the last 18 months because you haven't really been
able to do too much. But to answer your question in a sort of very succinct way, things that take you out of the comfort zone, things that make you feel uncomfortable, things that make you feel, vulnerable constantly are things to, to live by. It's like, you know, I remember at at at Goldman's, when I was there, there was the the Nike advert was was quite big and strong in those times. It was just do it. It was 93, 94. It was a huge sort of just
do it. And that was a very much a Goldman's motto actually just just do it. And I read a lot of books on markets and psychology and what have you. And the thing that really stood out for me was people on their deathbed. There was a very famous book of someone who interviewed a lot of people on their deathbeds. You know, what was a common theme between people on their deathbed? What was the common thing that that came through?
And it's quite extraordinary because actually it's not things in life, you know, that that what did they regret. And people didn't regret things in life they'd done. They just regretted things in life they hadn't done. And I think that's a huge part of of our journey to not be on your deathbed and leave anything on the table, to not be on their death and think, you know what? I wish I'd done that. I really wish I'd been able to do that. I would wonder
how that experience was. We don't know one day the sun's going to set and not come up. We don't know when that is. I really don't want to be on my deathbed and and have regrets about things I wanted to do in life. This is not a dress rehearsal. This is all for us to go and and get and so constantly just challenging oneself not to be complacent, not to be comfortable, not to be in a routine, and not to get to our end of our days and think, I wish I'd done
that. I think that's a life well lived a a life well worth lived. Well, call me crazy, but I think on your what's next list is the Hoffman process. I don't think it's crazy. I mean, it fat matches all the criteria. Literally matches all the criteria. You're probably right. I can't help it. I can't help but add that to your list. Acting class Hoffman process. Okay. Fine. Done. I'm sure that's right.
Well, Hilton, it has been a treat. Thank you so much for sharing your journey and some of your milestones and the crossroads and hearing that it's your heart speaking to you at each one of these milestones and each one of these crossroads, even making a 7 and a half year movie. We had to wait for the boy to grow up and get his braces off so we could then film him at a later point without braces. And and so we waited for him to grow up. It's a bit like the boyhood film where the boy becomes
older. We had to wait. So that took a long time. Yeah. Exactly. That's that's not a small part of your life. So that alone should get the listeners to watch because it's literally, it's a a going back in time, the main character, Sav. Right? I think I got his name right. Sav is you see him as a young boy, and then you see him as a teenager or, like, it's felt to me like he was a 19, 20 year old. And I was like, wow. They look so much alike. I had no idea it was the same
kid. We've had that before. People say, wow. You got great cast. He's amazing. He looks just like the boy like that. Yeah. Actually, he is the boy, and it's, yeah. We had to make him look at look at look a a lot older. So no. The film's out, I think, on 4th of June, and it's on sort of Amazon Prime and Google and Itunes and all this stuff, and it's chasing wonders. I think film is, it's on Facebook and Instagram. So, look, we'll we'll we'll see what's exciting just to get it
out there. It's I'm really proud of just having a film out there that that I'm proud of. And if it can help change some people's lives, then that's amazing. And I think I don't know if we mentioned it, but part of the proceeds of the film actually going to the Hoffman, Institute for Bursary to help people who maybe couldn't afford to go on the Hoffman process to actually go on it. And so that's part of the journey in bringing us back to
where this all originated from. Again, if we could if we could help someone go on this journey and, you know, themselves be touched by by watching the film, then that's great. And if we could also help someone go on the Hoffman process as part of the film because it's generating revenues to put someone on it, that's a double benefit. So, hopefully, we'll be able to do that. That's amazing.
And, and it so coincides because the story is this is what will happen if this is what won't happen if you do the Hoffman process, basically. So, they do really go hand in hand well, and thank you again for trusting your heart and putting the story out there and, of course, for your generosity, which will allow more people to take the process and in advance for you, yourself being there. Wink wink. I can't help it. Okay. I've just written I'm I'm gonna write down, Sharon. I'm gonna
do the Hoffman process. There you go. Well, when you write things down, they happen, so be careful. There you go. That's it. They happen. That's it. I've written down, so I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. Alright. It has really, really been a treat. Thank you. And you. It's been really lovely. Thank you for thank you for, this I think an hour just seemed to fly by there. That was, I really enjoyed it and, you know, well done all the great work that
you do. And, I've really, really, really genuinely loved having having our chat, and I hope we can stay in touch. Absolutely. And, for the listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. We will see you in the following episodes. And, again, it's Chasing Wonder. We'll have links. Please support it. It's a beautiful story. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation.
And I'm Rassie Grassi Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love in themselves in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to hanpininstitute.org.