- Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horning and on this podcast we catch up with graduates for conversations around how their internal work in the process is informing their life outside the process. How their spirit and how their love is living in the world around them, their everyday radius. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman Podcast. My name is Drew Horning, and today we have Jen Atkin.
Jen is a hairstylist, an influencer, an entrepreneur. She has, uh, started multiple businesses. She was named the most influential hairstylist in the world by the New York Times. She has 4 million followers on social media and for the past 15 years or more, she's worked in salons backstage at Paris and New York fashion shows. She's been on set with some of the world's biggest celebs, including the Kardashian Jenners, the Hadids, Gwen Stefani, Katie Perry, Jennifer Lopez.
And when she's not juggling a-list clients in her booming companies, Jen is trying to maintain a personal life at home with her husband, her dogs, hiking, meditating, and she is just about to release a book called Blowing My Way to the Top. Jen, welcome to the program. And I guess in the proverbial Hoffman question, what are you feeling? - I am feeling I have my feelings list sitting in front of me every day on my desk. I'm going to refer to it.
Right now I am feeling a bit anxious and I'm feeling optimistic, and I'm feeling, uh, enthusiastic and I am feeling inspired. - Nice. So how, let me ask you this question. How does, uh, a person come to become the most famous hairstylist in the world? How did that happen? - I want to say that was timing. It was luck. It was hard work, and it was quite the ride quite the journey.
Um, it's so crazy that that's even was even a headline, but, um, you know, I I have been working really hard for a good 20 years in la So I would say that is, uh, the reason why I find myself in my position today. - And you have a host of famous clients, the Kardashians being among them. What, what do you notice what's different about the cutting the hair and doing the hair kind of the image of such high profile public figures?
- I think that the one thing that I have really kind of, I, I think also a secret to my success has been I have treated everyone like human beings because they are human beings. And you know, if anything I've seen the good side of fame, I've seen the bad side of fame, and, and I think I am incredibly lucky that I've been able to work for so many years with such an inspiring human beings.
And, you know, we've all kind of grown up together and it's been, you know, it's been, it's been really eyeopening to be a fly on the wall and to see how people change around celebrity. You know, how people get awkward around celebrity, how people get infatuated with celebrity. And you know, I have to say, at the end of the day, I work with some incredible women who have been such lights in my life, - And you treat them like you would anybody else. You, you don't get starstruck.
You're straightforward, straight shooter. Yeah, - I never, I gotta say that's one thing I think that's been helpful in my career is, um, and as I've become kind of, I somewhat, I guess celebrity adjacent known on social media, um, I wasn't really given that gene of caring so much about what people think about me, which has been good and bad in my life. But, you know, I think with my clients, I have never really felt starstruck. I've been grateful for opportunities.
I've been, um, a lot, there's been a few like, oh my god, pinch me moments for sure. But I, yeah, I never really got like awkward and and weird around celebrity. - That's fantastic. And you know, in a world of such more image conscious work, there's a little thing being passed around you that crosses your lips and it is the Hoffman process. Certainly Katie Perry has referred to it publicly.
How did this happen where Hoffman has become something that you have referred so many people to and it's kind of a part of your network? - Yeah, I mean, I was so, um, I feel like there was a big awakening that happened in my life and a big kind of like I got into such a peaceful place post often that, you know, I'm one of those people that I like to share things that make me a better person with the people that I love and, and people who follow me.
You know, if I can use my platform to not only give beauty tips and hair tips and talk about, you know, the kind of nice, fun, fluffy things, I also need to speak and use my platform to talk about the things that really, you know, affect us and really matter that are sometimes hard to talk about.
And for me it was, you know, I think for the first time in my life, like really taking time away from the distractions of deadlines and day to day, uh, interactions that we get so caught up in and kind of like the mask that I was wearing of this successful busy person and going to the Hoffman process to really take that time to just look inward. I felt so, I feel so much better after doing it.
So, you know, I found out about it, like you mentioned through Katie Perry, who had a similar religious upbringing as I did. And, you know, I, I trusted her and I did it, and I dove in and I feel so great. And I've watched it change the lives of so many close friends and family members. And, you know, my husband has also gone to the process and we both really just, you know, want to help our friends be better and heal and just get to a really good place in life. 'cause we have one life to live.
- It's, it's a, it's an interesting journey that when we look back. How long ago was it that you took the process? - I went October, the beginning of October of last year. So just over a year. - Okay. And what do you remember looking back now, um, more than a year ago? What do you remember about your week at Hoffman? - Oh my God. I remember, um, kind of going into it, uh, you know, again, like I was juggling spinning a lot of plates.
And one of the patterns that I was able to kind of identify was that I got a lot of validation from people pleasing and from staying busy and being distracted. And I was kind of avoiding a lot of like, relationships and emotional connection. And I, I just wasn't making time for people in my life, you know? 'cause I just thought, here I am with this incredible opportunity. I can't waste this and I need to like, you know, not be ungrateful
and do all the things and say yes to everything. So, - So professionally, you were all in 24 7. You were really going for it. - Yeah, I look at my calendar pre Hoffman and, you know, it just was not healthy. And I think also we get caught up in this hustle porn and, you know, I launched my business, my haircare line in 2016. And, you know, I think that it was at a time when this incredible uprising of female empowerment and, you know, female entrepreneurs.
And I think, again, like I was just proving something that I didn't need to really like, prove and I wasn't enjoying the, uh, the process or my journey. So that's one thing that I recognized when I went into Hoffman was I needed help. I I needed to get back to a joyful place. I had some business. Um, I actually write about it in my book, um, that's coming out soon.
And I, and I talk about my first time in like, the business world and kind of the bruises and the cuts and scrapes I got, uh, along the way. And Hoffman really just helped me in, in so many ways. - Yeah. So, um, how was it to write a book? Uh, the title is Blowing My Way to the Top by Jen Atkin. - I will have to, to note that I'm holding a blow dryer on the cover of the book.
It was therapeutic and I couldn't have done it without, again, taking that time to stop and reflect on the winds and the misses and the lessons. And I'm so grateful to be able to put pen to paper and hopefully inspire and help the next generation of budding entrepreneurs. - Yeah. You have this, uh, you have this interesting thing between being a leader, 4 million followers on Instagram, a leader and an inspire an influencer. Uh, and so being aware of what are the things you're saying?
What are the things you're doing? What are you modeling? But also, you know, you've got to walk your own path, take your own journey, make your own choices. How do you navigate between what's good for my image and my business versus what's good for me personally? - Um, you know, to be honest with you, drew, I, it's interesting, like when I do interviews, people ask like, do you wanna talk about this or do you not wanna talk about that?
Or is there anything that's off, you know, the table to talk about? And I honestly have lived and I'm very proud of it, a really authentic life. You know, I've shown the good stuff, I've shown the bad stuff, and I, you know, and like an example is I decided, you know, I was 36 years old, had a thriving career, was not ready to have children, decided to freeze embryos and showed that process on social.
And, you know, I got an outpouring of women who are grateful for me talking about something that doesn't get talked about a lot. And I really feel like, what is the term where all spirits having a human experience? Yeah. And so, you know, I try to use my platform to just live as authentically as I can. - Jen, props to you for, for really reducing that gap between the internal and external. How you show up with yourself and in your own life is how you show up in the world around you.
- Yeah, I, and I think that a lot of my celebrity clients and friends and influencers and a lot of people who have really, you know, found success on social media, that's a common denominator, you know, is that they're really truly showing. I mean, if you look at even the Kardashians, I think that's been a big reason that they had so much success because it was real. People were really watching the highs and the lows and it was relatable.
And I think that, I think that people just crave honesty and authenticity. - Yeah. It does seem like a commodity that travels well, doesn't it? You know, it's the people are inspired by your success, but also part of what you're saying is they're warmed in a comforting way by your humanity. - Yeah. I think, you know, if, if anything everyone just wants to feel like again, like they're not alone.
And I think that that's why it's so important to, as, as a, I guess, an influencer or even a business person or, you know, I, I love to share my story and writing the book was so important to me because, you know, the reality is yes, I work with like the most successful people and maybe the most famous beautiful women. And I have for a while. But like at the end of the day, I didn't go to college. I had worked at Little Caesar's. I'm from a small town in, in Utah called St. George.
And, you know, moved to LA with no money, leaving a religion that like my whole community was so upset that I would, you know, leave this like safe bubble that we lived in and move to LA and, you know, made it work. And I think that the lesson in that is, you know, I want people to not feel afraid to make that first move. And I want people to know that, you know, it's the scary things that lead us to greatness.
And it's important for me to, to share that story to people who feel like they're alone and maybe don't relate to people around them. - Take us to a scary moment. That was it leaving the house, was it telling your parents you're going to la What was particularly scary about some of those periods in your life? - Um, God, I feel like it was just yesterday. I was also 19, you know, and you're so much more fearless back then. 'cause you don't, when you're young, you're just fearless.
You don't really know what's around the corner. And so, you know, I had my best friend, I write about it in the book, but the two of us, you know, we just really felt like we weren't living authentic lives. It was something that we were curious about and something that was calling us to not get married to our high school boyfriends and start having kids at 20. And we wanted to, to just go to the city and see what else was out there, you know, so that's, that's pretty much what started it.
And I do remember at the time, you know, our families of course, you know, being so nervous and so scared and, and our parents being older. And I, I think because, um, there's a bit of fear in religion. There has to be. So I think that that fear, you know, while it could have held us back from taking the leap, we kind of pushed through it. And, and our families to this day, we have amazing relationships with.
And you know, we kind of have taught our parents a lot about the world in many ways and how beautiful it is outside of, you know, the little bubble that we were in. - I had a, um, friend a while back say it's the job of every child emerging into adulthood to help their parents grow up. And it sounds like you did just that. - Yes. Yes I did.
And, you know, I think, um, again, my week at Hoffman like helped me so much to just realize, like while I was kind of running away from, and I think judging my parents and feeling like they don't understand me, we grew up in different worlds. I grew up with the internet. They didn't, you know, they're so close-minded, all the things that, like, I kind of held a grudge and I, here I found myself at 40 years old still that like angst teenager.
And I think what's been incredible is, is since I, my week at Hoffman, you know, I, I literally left and went straight. This isn't everybody's journey, but I just like had to go and see my parents. - Oh, so you went right from the process to visit your parents? - I did, yeah. I, I couldn't get to them fast enough. I felt this incredible, uh, love for them and I write about that as well. - So what happened? Take us there, you hop on a flight to Utah and what happens?
- I got to sit and talk to them about their lives. And I've never asked, I've never been curious, which is so odd to me. I never asked what life was like when they grew up, when they were in teenagers. You know, I never asked my mom what it was like to be a woman in the sixties. And what it's like, my parents decided to, you know, this is a longer story, but my parents, uh, decided to leave Utah and took us to Hawaii to live for most of my elementary years, which changed my life completely.
And there's so many things that, like my parents are such incredible people that I had been focusing so much on, like how much I don't wanna be like them, that I didn't pay attention to the great parts of them that make me who I am. And the other part of it is my, my parents actually adopted me when I was a newborn. So I also had that gratitude of just, you know, them making that decision. They, they could have, uh, my older sister and my younger sister are their natural children.
So, you know, for them to, to pray and, and, and make that decision and, and decide to adopt me, you know, completely changed my whole life. And it's the reason why I have the opportunities that I do. And I, I think I, you know, recognized so much the, the, the busing that that was - Jen, what was that like for them, for you to come, I'm just imagining you there, sitting with them and asking them questions and them responding and sharing things that they had never shared before.
And then, and then looking at you asking these questions of them, what was that like? - Oh my God. Um, I think it was healing. That's the word that comes to mind for all of us. You know, I think they in a way had lost me to my own drive and my own like success and me keeping up with all of the opportunities coming my way that, you know, I wasn't going home as often.
I sat them down. I remember in probably 2012, and it's right when things are really picking up and I said, I, I am going to be a bit absent. Like, I had the wherewithal to like warn them, which is so strange 'cause I didn't really know what was coming, uh, into my life. But I said, I, I really am going to like buckle down and focus on my career and so I'm not gonna be coming home as often.
And so I think for them, they were just so grateful to have me get to where I was, where I, I kind of felt like I, I was back into my full potential of being like a well-balanced human being. - Yeah. So, so well said. I think sometimes that adolescent angst to move forward and against and beyond, we forget that we can actually have loving relationships with our parents and be independent, successful and on our own.
- Yeah. And I, I honestly drew, I think about it all the time, not to, you know, be dramatic, but I, I don't think I would've gotten to this place had I not done Hoffman and really spent time doing the work. And, and it's interesting because I went in to help with my professional life 'cause it had gotten outta control and I felt like just overwhelmed and hopeless and felt social anxiety and I felt like I was burnt out from being so busy and I didn't want to like, on my downtime.
I didn't wanna call friends or call my family. I just didn't wanna have any more human interaction. So I went in really wanting to focus on like how to get more balance with work. And I came out craving more time for emotions and more time with family and more time with friends. And, and since then I've had such an incredible balance of really taking weekends off and realizing that like the work will be there. I don't have to become a slave to my own schedule.
- Since you left Utah, you head to LA life speeds up incredibly. So you think you are going to the process 7, 8, 9 years later to, um, learn how to manage that trajectory and instead you come out with a desire to slow down, to connect more deeply, to feel your emotions. Did that surprise you - So much? Yeah, and, and I have to say a year later I'm so grateful that it's really truly like, changed my day to day and who I am. I've taken better care of myself.
I really focused and put my health as the number one priority. My relationships with my husband and my friends have just flourished. And, and listen, I had no idea what 2020 was going to become. And I talked to so many of my peers and my classmates from that week, and we all say the same thing. I'm sure you hear it from a ton of people that, you know, have done the process that I, one of my best friends was actually in the last process just before lockdown happened.
And she always talks about the fact that she's like, I don't know how I would've processed this had I not been able to go and do that work. You know? So I am just so grateful. I feel like it's helped me to keep good healthy habits daily. It's helped me to keep, you know, I have a gratitude journal. I do the, uh, quad checks every morning. My husband and I do 'em together. And yeah, it's just helped me so much to stay, I think grounded and to stay sane.
- Yeah. Jen, and you and I got to know one another because I did immediately after the George Floyd murderer did a healing thing around privilege and working with the emotions that come up around whiteness as people were craving some sort of response and way to deal with what was happening and to help in some way. So there's a big kind of, what do we do now?
And you know, as I've gotten to know you and seen your platform, I noticed that you don't also, you also don't shy away from the tough issues. You've talked about race and, and brought on people that have addressed it very specifically. What's the, like, why that, what inspired you t take us to that moment in, when was it in, in May or June when you stepped into that space?
So boldly it seems like, - Yeah, I mean, I have to thank you and, and so many people who came onto my Instagram lives and helped me kind of just openly talk about things I had, you know, like everyone else. Just a huge awakening and felt a lot of guilt and a lot of shame and, you know, I I kind of reached out to you to help us, you know, 'cause I had a ton of friends who we were having offline conversations and we were all just kind of stunned and frozen.
And then it was just so many emotions and, and I wanted anyone who was following me that was going through the same kind of, I I felt like we were lost at sea.
And I think what's really like stood out to me were the few things that you said to us about, like, for instance, I really didn't know much about like white centering and I didn't know, you know, the, the danger of like getting stuck in that guilt and that shame and that embarrassment, how dangerous that is to not just move through that and, you know, get to the other side and, and yeah, white privilege.
I think for me, you know, I identify as a brown, you know, I just did my DNA test and saw that I actually, I know my, my ancestors are from Ecuador, but you know, I have indigenous ancestry and you know, for me, I, I think I had to be, to really come clean and, and recognize my own white privilege of being raised in a white middle class family. And I had to recognize that while I was in this fight for feminism, I wasn't paying attention to intersectionality.
You know, like I wasn't asking, I I wanted opportunities for women. My businesses are all 80 to 90% women, but I wasn't looking to see how much inclusivity there was in, in those women. So, yeah, I think, you know, here we are, I, I don't wanna timestamp us too much, but you know, we're post-election waiting to hear who our next president will be. And I think, um, you know, we have a lot of emotion right now as to how close this election has been.
And there's a lot of conversation, you know, rising about how disappointing that is to some people. And I think, um, you know, if anything it just kind of shows that there's a lot of work to be done and we can't lose steam. You know, we can't lose steam.
And I think a lot of things that we were taught as kids, we realize we're relies and we're not, you know, I I, I feel like in a weird way, like we're all growing up and taking responsibility and wanting to see positive change and coming together as a community. And that's why I feel inspired. I feel inspired by that. - Yeah. So it's one year post process. What else lies for you as you look forward into the future, into your future?
- Oh wow. Looking into the future, you know, I, I don't wanna go back to normal, you know, I know that right now being, what are we eight months into COVID-19, I think this year has been almost like a rebirth. I feel such a huge responsibility to, like I said, just help humanity get to a good place.
And, and that starts with like, you know, individual work, whether it's like going to therapy or going to a Hoffman, or really just doing the internal work and then coming together as community to, to help create change within your community. And again, like I think we just have to focus on being the light in darkness. And we all have seen, there's just a lot of emotion that's been going on. And I think a lot of divide.
And one thing I hope for, for the future is that I can just continue to help promote everyone kind of coming together and healing. And that saying of hurt people, hurt people. I just wanna try to help heal people so they're not hurt. - Well said. Jen, I am grateful for this time, this conversation and your willingness to, uh, step into the arena and not to shy away from what's happening, uh, inside of us, your willingness to address the internal world, but also the systemic societal
dynamics happening around us as well. Thank you for that. - Yes, of course. Thank you Drew so much. You don't understand how much the, uh, the gratitude and appreciation meditations that you do, uh, the Hoffman uh, institute's Instagram page, it's like, ugh, there's so many times this week when I have just, you know, premeditation, I was just always internalizing the anxiety and, and I have to say like, stepping away sometimes three times a day to just be still and to like breathe.
And it, it helps so, so much. So thank you for all the work that you guys do. - You're welcome, Jen. I look forward to seeing what's next for you. Good luck in the next adventures. - Thank you, drew. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Insi. I'm the CEO and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation. - And I'm Ra Rossi Hoffman, teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation.
- Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love - In themselves, in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to hoffman institute.org.