- Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Drew Horning, and on this podcast we catch up with graduates for conversations around how their internal work in the process is informing their life outside the process, how their spirit and how their love is living in the world around them, their everyday radius. Hey everybody, my name is Drew Horning. Welcome to the Hoffman Podcast. Love's everyday Radius.
Today we have Emmanuel Fortune with us on the show. Emmanuel, I am so glad to be having this conversation with you. Welcome. - Thank you, drew. It's such an honor to be on the podcast with you today. - Would you, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself, introduce yourself? - Sure. Um, so again, Emmanuel Fortune and I am a father of two. Um, I have a lovely 18-year-old son, and, uh, another beautiful bundle of joy who's an 18 month old daughter.
Um, I live with my wife and, uh, kiddos here in northeast Florida. Um, I've worked in the philanthropy industry for, uh, some years now, but have a deep passion and commitment to education as well as a former educator.
But again, uh, once an educator, always an educator, so lifelong educator and, um, have done, uh, graduate school and graduate work, um, in California, Stanford, um, but was a homegrown, um, Florida boy and, and, and, uh, finished my, um, undergraduate here at the University of Florida. And, um, just, um, really, really grateful to sort of be in community with you all. - And you're a more recent graduate of the process.
- Yes, so I was lucky enough to be in the February, 2020 Hoffman, um, class and, um, graduated on, uh, the Day of Love, February 14th, - . So, uh, take us Emmanuel to a moment in time in your process that felt, uh, foundational or one you remember, one that felt significant. Where are you and, and what's happening? - Yeah, so I would, uh, probably go to day two or three, um, sitting in sort of a big circle and taking in a teaching.
And after the teaching, um, there was a bit of a break and I had to come to terms with a pattern that I had been struggling with. It was really just me trying to work through the pattern of being a caretaker and finding my identity and, um, serving and meeting the needs of others and not honoring my own needs. And I remember sitting there alone. Everyone sort of had gone off to take their breaks, but I really wanted to experience the breakthrough of, um, this moment.
I remember my teacher coming over to me and encouraging me to kind of, you know, stick with it. And I realized in that moment that for me, being a caretaker was not serving me, that it was only by making sure that I was able to pour into my own cup, that from that self-love and from that overflow of love that I'd be able to best give to others. And that was a very, very liberating moment for me.
I'd never taken the time to acknowledge that it is from me being self full that I would be able to, um, offer to others, um, from a space of generosity and authenticity. - And, uh, why would someone develop a pattern of caretaking? What happened? Like, where did you learn that pattern? How did that help you survive in your childhood? - Yeah, I, um, so I grew up as one of, uh, 13 kids total, although my family in the us there was 11 children.
My my parents had immigrated from Haiti and came in the early 1980s. And, you know, it was really, really, really tough having to provide for so many children on such low resources. Um, I remember when I went to college, you know, I had to submit my mom's W2, and it was the first time I realized how poor we were. Um, I remember seeing her W2 and it said something like six or $7,000 was her total annual income. And I had never realized that as a single mom.
She had raised all of us on virtually nothing. And as a middle child, I always wanted to help my mom and I saw how, you know, important it was to her to meet our needs. So I constantly, you know, wanted to help the helper. I wanted to be there to help her do that.
So everything from cleaning the house or preparing meals to eventually going to work as a teenager, uh, you know, not of legal age at the time, but, you know, knowing that I had to step up and take responsibilities that, you know, young kids typically don't have to do. My dad, um, I felt like I had to feel some of the shoes that, um, he sort of left empty when I was in seventh grade. My dad, he had, um, walked out on our family. I remember it.
Um, well, it was the middle of the night and he was wheeling his bags out, um, from the room. And it was a single, it was a one bedroom apartment with, you know, 13 people, two adults and 11 kids. And we mostly slept wherever we could find space. Some people slept in the floor on cots. Sometimes I would sleep in the bathroom because it was, you know, if you can get the tub in a pillow, you usually could get your own space. And so it was that kind of, you know, find wherever you could.
But this one time I was in the living room and he, he wheeled his bag out. I asked him where he was going and he told me to go back to sleep. And that was the last time I would see him until my mother's funeral. Um, when he left, my brothers and I, we all decided that we were going to get jobs, and for the most part we worked and to some degree, rotated the primary responsibility of providing that second household part of the income.
- Wait, so Emanuel, you, you have that, that witnessing literally of the moment he left and then there was a kind of pact with your siblings, your brothers, about kind of sharing the responsibility of, of financial and kind of, uh, duties associated with running the household with your mom. - That's exactly right. I didn't ever really, um, think about the fact that I implicitly took on that identity. It held me hostage for the next, you know, almost 25 years of my life.
Um, even when I, when it wasn't serving me, even when I no longer was in that moment of being a teenager who was afraid but felt like I had to step up, that's not who I am anymore, but that's always been with me and I would just slip into that mindset constantly. - So I imagine that's part of what's going through your mind as you're sitting in that share that history of the pattern and the cost associated with it.
- That's exactly right. Um, just sort of meditating on that and, and thinking about just how it's been an important part of, of helping my family sort of persist. And it's been an part, important part of the grit that it took to, um, break through moments that were difficult, but in this moment, being self-sacrificial was not serving me, and I sat in that chair and had to mourn for that kid. It was cathartic. It was an important honoring of the work that was done by a courageous young kid.
And it was time to sort of honor that work and, and say, you know, it's time to move on. - Was there ever a sense of, of loss around a childhood that that was never allowed to happen? - Uh, yeah. You know, I, I think about just what it meant to be one of those kids who everything you wore was, was hand me down.
You know, you, you spent so much time trying to protect the younger children or just try and be responsible knowing that, you know, as a child of immigrants, you didn't ever wanna get into any trouble that would challenge your, your, your parents' status. And so we, we, we kind of had very narrow boundaries and, um, it wasn't a very, you know, rich and, and, and well-rounded, um, childhood in that sense.
But we found ways to, to, um, you know, find joy in what we did have and, and just, um, whether it was playing kickball in our yard or being our own whole football or basketball team, you know, we tried to find ways to kind of find joy in those moments, but we knew that by not having a ton of resources or having sort of what kids across the train tracks might have had that we were missing out on something.
And so I definitely felt a sense of, of, of loss for, for that part of myself, um, for sure. - And, you know, so much of the process is, is about healing the past, but also about re-imagining, re-envisioning getting clarity around the future. So what did, and how did Hoffman help you? Or I guess did it do that? What was it, what was its relationship to your future and how you wanna show up in your life going forward?
- Yeah, so, um, I guess thinking about, um, where that sort of kid ended up going, you know, I ended up becoming the first person in my family to go to college and graduate school. And a lot of what informed my future career choices were certainly the way that I grew up.
And, and a big part of that was, um, around education and social justice for, for communities that were disadvantaged or underserved and going into Hoffman, I just remember feeling a sense of disconnected from my path, um, that somehow I had strayed from listening to my own voice and wisdom and had not had the confidence to go for my dreams. And in the process, I was able to reconnect with my own truth, my own sort of wisdom about what I believe the world needs in this moment.
And in order for the world to actually realize so much of the goodness that's available to it, I've realized that I had to recognize the goodness that was in me, the worth that was in me, and the value that was in me. And so I almost had to live that truth first, um, before I could feel like it was honest that the world could achieve that. And that's what the process allowed me to do.
I spent a good bit of time acknowledging that answers around what it was that I was capable of, what I believed could be accomplished in my own career, the the changes that I wanted to see in the world that I had, what it took to manifest that I spent some time figuring out, you know, the things that were getting in the way.
- Yeah. I, I I love what, where you're going, because part of what I hear you saying is that, um, the wisdom was within me that if I, that if I manifested that, if I walked the talk, if I showed up on behalf of myself, then I could create more of what I wanted in the world. - Yes, absolutely. I, I just started to tap into the inner wisdom and started to listen to my own beliefs, um, things that I had quieted and set aside.
And once I started to listen to that wisdom, I realized that I could support others in being able to see that wisdom for themselves. - So Emmanuel, what are you, what does that wisdom tell you about what the world needs? What are you passionate about and why? - Yeah, it's a great question, drew.
So I, um, for the better part of the last, um, maybe six or seven years, I've spent a lot of times supporting communities through grant making, um, using philanthropy as an instrument for justice and, and helping communities see change. And I think that, um, there's tremendous benefit and value in what philanthropy can do. I've also seen, um, communities where people inherently have value and use their inherent value to liberate themselves and make community change.
And I think that's an, a resource that's gone untapped. Um, you know, somehow we've allowed, uh, the system and the institution of philanthropy to almost become a, a bit of a, a one size fits all solution. And, um, we haven't taken advantage of the innate value that folks have.
And, you know, my, my, um, sort of inner wisdom has guided me towards the path of, of pursuing, um, a PhD where, where I'll be exploring more of these concepts and, you know, just what does it mean for, um, philanthropy to be an instrument of justice and where does it get in the way, you know, where, where, where should we sort of put that pool to the side, if you will, and explore other assets.
And so I'm very much interested in, um, issues of social and economic justice and what it's going to take for us to see community change at the local level by liberating ourselves, by, uh, tapping into, um, the heart space. Um, very much in the way that, um, Hoffman was a gift to me. I realized that, you know, there's, there's nothing that a particular gift could do in the form of, of charity than a gift from myself could do by listening to my inner wisdom.
And not that you dispense what one, and, and it has no value, but it's finding out where do we figure out how one is the most important tool for moving someone forward and moving them towards, um, justice. - Yeah, I, I really like that. 'cause you know, part of what we have at the head of every classroom, of every process is this sign that says, my goal is to change. And so, you know, change is an interesting word. What does change mean? Well, it means different things to different people.
What kind of change do we need in the world? Part of what I hear you saying is that money certainly can be used to create change and to foster transformation, but maybe there's something more important than money. And that's the gift of presence, that's the gift of an open heart. You, you have told in the past a story around your childhood and what changed the trajectory of your life. Will you share that?
- Yeah, absolutely. Um, uh, I, I remember, um, being, um, a young kid, uh, in, um, south Florida and, you know, there was a teacher, um, in, in my elementary school, leisure City Elementary, uh, who was just an incredible advocate for me. I was in an ESOL class English, um, as a second language. - You grew up speaking Haitian America, right? So you're, that was your primary language.
- That's right. Yeah. And so as, as a, as a, a child of immigrants from Haiti, you know, I spoke ha Creole as, um, my language at home. It was the first language I grew up with. And so I had not actually, um, been what you call mainstreamed in the public school system. And so by being in this ESOL class, um, when assignments for the mainstream students would go out, they would typically skip over, um, these classes.
And in, in this particular case, they were distributing a written spelling bee test for students who would ultimately go on to do an oral spelling bee competition in the school. And when, um, the person who was proctoring these walked by our classroom, she said, oh, yep, you, this class does not get these because it's English is a second language. But my teacher said, well, you know, if you decide not to give it to the class, that's fine, but you need to at least give it to this young man.
And she pointed to me and I ended up getting this paper test, and I aced the test. And as a result, um, - Wait, let me just get that, because they're, they're the proctor's ready to walk by your class, move on. This is the English as a second language class. Of course, they can't spell, uh, they won't be able to spell English words. And your teacher says, hold up, wait a minute. You can, you can choose not to give it to the whole class, but you cannot choose not to give it to Emmanuel Fortune.
- That's right. And there was something about just the knowingness that she had. There was a, seeing the value of my humanity that she had, there was a willingness to be that generous spirit and advocate for me that reminds me of the same open and warm heart that I felt during my process, and that I feel when I'm giving to others - That is that. So did you feel that in the moment? Um, did you feel seen when she said No, give it to hi to him?
- I did. I think that, um, you know, I was a very bookish kid and I would read a lot at home and took it upon myself to really, um, learn a lot of words. Um, and that was not something that the proctor would see, but to a teacher who would sneak books, you know, to me and, and would allow me to sort of feed that curious mind, he knew me in a way that, um, others didn't. And, and so that advocacy made me feel seen. Um, absolutely - Beautiful. So, so you get the test
and then what happens? How do you do? - Yeah, so I did great. I I, I got a hundred percent on the written test, and that led to me going onto the oral spelling bee at schoolwide level, and I ended up winning the schoolwide spelling bee. And that was just a great moment because I, I can imagine that the proctor was surprised and a lot of other people were surprised. And the truth is, is, um, I probably wasn't the only kid in that classroom who, who could have performed at that level.
And, and it was just because of somebody's open heart that I had that opportunity. And after the school wide spelling bee, I ended up competing in a countywide spelling bee, and I ended up winning the countywide spelling bee, and I went onto the regional spelling bee, and I won the regional spelling bee. And then there was a, a statewide, not qualified for the statewide and placed, but the real, uh, sort of moral of the story is that someone who had an incredibly open and warm heart saw me.
And it's through that act of heart generosity, that it created opportunity, it created me, I'm here, you know, where I am today, and I can be that same open and generous person for someone else who's gonna need that one day. - Emmanuel, does she know the impact she had on you, - ? It's a good question. Um, I've never had the chance to actually go back and, you know, I wish I could kind of go in a phone book and find her and, and tell her.
But, um, I think it's an interesting thing about educators. They make a difference, um, every single day in, in what they do. And I don't know that they'll always see the fruit of their labor, and it's an invisible gift that they're giving every single day, um, in the work that they do. And so, I, I only can hope that she knows she contributed to my success, therefore, to the success that I've created for others when I was a teacher.
And to the folks who they will go on to touch, my students will go on to touch. - I, um, I'm, I'm struck by the part of the story you shared that I certainly was the benefit of it, and I'm grateful that she singled me out and supported my gifts and, and seeing my intelligence and my capacity to spell and the reward that that gave me. And you said somewhat subtly, how many other kids in that classroom also could have used the opportunity?
And so here I see you stepping into this field of education, wanting to maybe do, uh, for others what was given to you. - That's right. I think it's that same heart for others that I've received from her example. And you know, now in some of the work that I'll be going on to do, um, for an interim period, I'll, I'll be able to, um, support young people and help advise and mentor them and provide them with opportunity and see their gifts.
It's not always the case That kid will, will have that individual attention and be seen for all of who they are. And I think there's a movement, um, there's a shift happening, um, where, where we're really kind of seeing folks for the fullness of, of who they are. And I certainly count myself among the people who's trying to advance that type of approach.
- I'm inspired by your commitment to continue the gift and the open heart if as you step into education even more fully than you already are, having been a teacher, having been involved in philanthropy and supporting communities in need.
Um, as this next step, this next chapter, you talked about returning to get a PhD. What are you, what are you inspired by creating, by changing, uh, that you see as important that, that our society understands that you want to implement - At this stage in my life?
The big next chapter that, that I'm excited is going back to, uh, teach at the professor level and, um, to still support learning and to also do research around the behaviors that influence giving, whether it's philanthropic institutions, nonprofits, financial intermediaries, and how does the work of those institutions advance or deny, um, social and economic justice.
And those institutions are certainly informed by the value and, um, the sort of just beliefs of the folks who make decisions in those organizations. And so I'm very much interested in concepts of behavioral finance and what it looks like for individuals to have beliefs where everyone is capable of making a difference and therefore they're worth investing in. Or you may have a mindset that decides, you know what, we're gonna skip that classroom, and so we're not gonna invest in those kids.
We're not going to invest in those communities. And, and so what does it look like to actually be, um, someone who's advancing justice or someone who's maintaining the status quo, um, particularly, um, in these types of institutions?
So my, my passion is, is really around, um, issues of, of, of social and economic justice, and I would not have been able to tap into that vision for myself to be a lifelong, um, educator, researcher, and community practitioner if I didn't have that push to bet on myself. Um, which absolutely happened at my time, um, at Hoffman really believing that this is what the world needs. - Hmm. I love that, that push to bet on myself.
Uh, what's it like to, to share about your passion, your light, to reflect on your childhood? Uh, what's what's that been like? - Uh, it's, it's, it's been really healing for me.
You know, I, I spent a lot of time just remembering, you know, that a lot of, uh, a lot of my upbringing was filled with not a tremendous amount of, of material, you know, resource, but just abundant in, you know, a love of family, a love of people, and spending time reflecting on that has allowed me to mourn for, for, you know, parts of my myself that I say, you know, I didn't have an opportunity to really, you know, experience the richness of what might be a fully rounded childhood.
But I think there's a lot of lessons that, um, I took from what it meant to be resourceful. And also going through the process has allowed me to grow up parts of myself and be really confident in stepping into the next chapter of my life as a, an adult who's clear about his path, about the change that I want to see in the world. And, and for that, I think, you know, I'm just really grateful and spending the time reflecting on that has been really liberating for me.
- Yeah, I, I, um, I really see this pivot that you are engaging in professionally and, um, also aware that it, in a way, it's not a pivot at all, it's just more living who you are, uh, more profoundly more, uh, as you say, betting on yourself in the world. And I must say I have a, a new understanding, a new appreciation for Little Haiti in Miami there. What a, what a, do you go back there much folks should check out Little Haiti.
It's a quite a unique place, and yet so much a part of, uh, of what, what we have been as a country in terms of embracing immigrants. - Yeah, absolutely. I, um, I love my hometown. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm very proud of my, um, heritage and, and, um, my mother country and Miami, and Little Haiti in particular is just a, it gave me my identity. It gave me who it is that I am in the world, and I get home as often as I can.
I, I know it's not often enough and, and, and, um, my family has always been just really, really great about giving me grace.
But I think now that I've transitioned to a new chapter in my life, I'm actually really excited about freeing up more time to get back down home, miss so much, just the, the Haitian cuisine and listening to KBA music and just all, all of the, the just cultural aspects of being in a place that gave me so much and, and, um, I'm proud of, of, of how far we've come as a community too.
- So, Emmanuel Fortune, I am, um, so grateful for this conversation and I look forward to checking back with you to see how that light inside you, how your passion, uh, continues to unfold in the world around you, given that you are heading back to grad school to be a professor and to continue to look at behavioral finance and the, and the ways in which we engage around that. Are you excited for that, uh, part of your story, this chapter, - ? Yeah, it is. It is.
Um, and it's a, it is an exciting, um, moment of transition for me and, um, you know, I, I've been, um, seeking, um, spirit and really checking in with spirit around what's next for me. And, and that was the, the answer that I got back. I'm, I'm feeling a lot of courage around making that decision, and I'm, I'm really excited about it.
I, I, I think my wife who's been incredibly supportive, I have a, a number of friends who, um, have just totally given, given me the, the kind of cheerleading that I need and my Hoffman community. Like, um, I just, I feel like this is a, a leap of faith and that community of folks from Hoffman are my wings, and it's been just the best investment in myself by saying yes to life and um, yes to what's next for me, and I just couldn't be more grateful. - Emmanuel, thank you for this conversation.
- Thank you so much, drew. It's been a pleasure. - Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Insi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. - And I'm Rasing Rossi Hoffman, teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. - Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love - In themselves, in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to Hoffman institute.org.