- Welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Sharon Moore, and I'm one of your hosts. And on this podcast, we talk to Hoffman graduates about how their courageous journey inward impacted their personal lives, but also how it impacted their community and the world at large. So tune in and listen in and hear how our graduates authentic selves, how their love, how their spirits are making a positive impact on our world today.
In other words, get to know their love's everyday radius. So welcome back everybody. Today. My guest is Ross Copperman. Now, I met Ross a few years ago, and I'll tell you what stood out to me the most was his huge and open heart, his childlike curiosity and his commitment to his own growth, both as a person, a father, a husband, and an artist. Ross is a Grammy nominated singer, songwriter and producer with over 30 number one hits and people, that number keeps growing.
So you might be hearing it now. It's more than 30. The point is he has an ever-growing list of accolades and awards from the like of Country Music Association, academy of Country Music, BMI, and of course, the Grammy Awards. Now today we're gonna learn more about who is this man? What makes his heart sing, how does he overcome obstacles? And maybe even a little bit about what was his experience like at the Hoffman process. So Ross, welcome to the show.
- Thank you, Sharon. - Now we happen to know each other because in the process I was actually your teacher and I loved spending the week with you, Ross, and I loved seeing the person that you, you became and Oh, - You too. - I'm curious if you'd be willing to share what, what originally brought you to the Hoffman process? - Oh, wow. Well, I, um, I spent some time with a, a friend of mine, Blake Koski and Pat Dossett.
Um, and I, I hung with them in Jackson Hole one weekend, and we just started talking about life and exploring and how to better yourself. And they both said, before you even think about doing anything else, you have to, you have to go through the process. And, uh, I had no idea what they were talking about. And, and I, I kind of let that linger for about six months to a year.
I had reached out, kind of curious, and I just, I finally just got to a point where I realized I really do have so much work to do, and I have so much from my past that I've never addressed. And I just dove in. I, I, I booked it and I, I, I said, I'm doing this. And, um, I didn't look back and it was the one of the best, most important weeks of my life. - But PSI confirm. You sure did dive in. You just showed up, , you were ready, ready to go.
- Yeah. - What was it like for you, you know, having, had you done any work like this beforehand or was this one of the first times you did something like this? - You know, I, I had gone to a therapist, a great therapist in Nashville, you know, every time something would bubble up in my life, I'd go see the therapist.
She would give me a set of instructions, this is what she needed to do, and I would do it for like a week or two, and then it kind of wear off, and I just would circle back to the same patterns and cycles. And, um, I, nothing ever seemed to resolve for me. I tried meditating, I tried yoga, I tried all these things, but I, I never went deep to the root of these things, um, like I did at Hoffman and, um, to really address them.
And I, my mind is still blown to this day when things come up and I realize, wow, I'm, I'm okay with that now. Like, I can deal with that, that, and I'm, you know, I just, those tools are just so inside now. I still stumble and I still struggle, uh, especially this past year has been very difficult and easy to fall back into all my, my old patterns, but I'm at least aware now. - And we are recording this in the beginning of 2021, so we're referring to 2020 and 2021.
So, uh, those were unique years. Now. What would you say, like, who did you come back as to your family, to your work, to your career? - I definitely came back the first week as like super, like a guru, trippy guy. I was definitely, I definitely , I was definitely like fully in immersed, you know, and I stayed in that, in that zone for about three months.
I came back as a peaceful patient, kind, loving, um, understanding, compassionate, balanced person, really dialed into the world and connect to connecting to nature and, and to my wife and my kids. And, uh, that lasted for about three to four months that, that, I think they call it the Hoffman High maybe.
And I honestly, I've been searching for that since the, since that three to four month period, trying to figure out how to, to live in that, because that was a, that was probably the closest I've ever felt to what I think is enlightenment. - Well, you know, you said an interesting word earlier, which is balanced. And when I hear a high, I wonder, is that balanced or is it a high? And then we go back to, you know, the pendulum comes back to the grounded, balanced place.
- That's so interesting. Yeah, I was so, yeah, I was so balanced. I, I, - And so do, do you sense that? So I, I get the, uh, I wanted that, I want that high again, but these things you named peaceful, patient, kind, balanced, loving, how do they show up in your life today? - So maybe I should say I want that balance. I don't want that Hoffman high. I want the Hoffman balance. That's a good, that's a good way to think about it.
You know, they show up when I deal with family member that, you know, my, have have presented issues for me in the past. I'm able to deal with it. I've, I've come to terms, I, I'm at peace. I, I feel like the true peace is within myself. And so I kind of feel like I have a little bit of a shield up. I'm just, I'm just very equipped to handle things. That's how the, that's how the balance comes into my life and the patience.
I, I try to, to practice recycling, which is a technique I learned at Hoffman. And, um, trying to think of, uh, my best self in every situation. How would my best self react to this? And, and that, that just helps me get on the daily. On the daily. - You mentioned, I have a, I don't remember the words, an armor or a shield. Do you feel like this is something that you are able to turn on and off when you, you know, 'cause I imagine there are moments in life where you don't want that shield.
Do you have access to turn it on and turn it off, so to speak? - Wow, I, you know, lately this, this past year is, it's been a difficult year and it's been hard being caught up in the news cycle and, and social media and all these things. It's kind of overtaken all of this stuff for me. So I haven't had the ability to maybe turn it on and off the way I should.
But I, I definitely find myself in, in, when I'm in situations that are conflict type situations, I'm, I'm, I'm a lot more equipped and I just, I can handle the them better. And I don't, I might not get as mad as I would have before because I have insecurities that I've, I've worked out or I've, you know, there's just deeper things that I've worked out that I, I don't fall into that cycle as easily. - I'll tell you from my perspective, hearing you speak.
So honestly, uh, about this makes me think you are in a, a space of authenticity. You, you could have easily chosen to pretend all is great, 20 20, 22, 1, this is . And, and instead, there's something to be said for the fact that you just told me your honest truth right there that's noteworthy. And, and maybe, I don't know, but maybe you actually have more access to this truth in your life than you realize. - And authenticity is what my, one of my biggest struggles was before I did the process.
Being true to myself and knowing who I was, I don't think I knew who I was. And you were a huge part of me finding that authenticity in the process and, um, going through the cycle of transformation. And yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's interesting. I think maybe two years ago, Ross would've would've said, yeah, this is a great year. I was, I was really good. Yeah. I had a lot of good things happening. And, uh, yeah, it was pretty good.
I would, I would've been a little more on the other end of the spectrum, you know? - Yeah. And I think that's huge, especially given, look, I get to meet you as, as Ross, and it's like human to human, soul to soul. But we are now in the context of the world, and you are somebody who people admire and who look to, and that's an added pressure. And here we are recording, and you know what you did, you showed up authentically, you said the truth.
And, and in a way, the hope is you gave some listeners permission to not hold themselves to a standard of inauthenticity or perfection or et cetera. - So true. The highlight reel of Instagram is the, the, the worst thing for that. You know, - I get that you feel far away from the high, but I do wonder if you are farther along or more balanced to use that word than you imagine, especially given how, how authentically to use that word. You answered that question.
- I, I think I am things creep in though, like, selfishness. And I, I don't, I, I'm still struggling how to deal with that jealousy and self and all these things, you know, that, that come in. But I do think I'm just more aware, you know, oh, I'm being selfish in this moment. This is be, that's because I learned that, you know, that's, that's not who I am. - Beautiful. And, and what is it at the end of the day to use Hoffman terminology?
And granted, not all listeners are Hoffman graduates, so excuse us for a minute here. But, you know, that is a pattern. And like you said, it's just a pattern. So what do we do? We transform it. That's all. It's rather than beating ourselves up or believing that that's who we are. And, um, and I can see that there's a spaciousness. It's not, I am a selfish person. It's, I have moments where the pattern of selfishness creeps in.
- You know what it is too, Sharon, if someone maybe confronts you and tells you, like if someone would confront me and say, you're being selfish right now, before two years ago, I would've gone into all these patterns of anger and resentments and all these crazy things. But now I'm able to hear that and be like, wow, okay, I hear you. I'm gonna look inside of me now and, and figure out why that's why that's going on. You know?
- Yeah, I know. And that, that speaks to the thing that I was most struck by, by you, which is curiosity. I experienced you as somebody who's very curious. So here's somebody in your life saying something like, oh, that it feels like you're being selfish old. You might have not been able to hear it, but the true you is curious. - Is he so true, Sharon, the old? Yes. That was, that is the biggest part of the process. The new, you can hear it. Yeah. God, I love that.
- You're welcome, wife. You're welcome. - , seriously. . Oh, man. - Well, let me ask you this, since, since I think what, what we're seeing is that the, the process has indeed continued to live on, not necessarily in a high, but continues to, to live on in your, I'm curious if we went back to the process, are you able to connect to a pivotal or magical moment in your experience?
- I think a, a magical moment for me was, again, you were, as my teacher, the first time I think we shut our eyes and we were doing a visualization, and you walked up and kind of right in front of my face, in my ear said, I see you and I love you. That was the, almost like the first time I'd ever heard that in my life. I never thought of that before. Like, wow, people, people see me like who I am. I, I kind of felt like nobody had ever seen me before. You're my true, authentic self.
And, um, at that, that, that moment blew my mind. I was like, wow, I am really in there. People can see where my, my heart and my spirit that really touched me, - Especially given, you know, I I, we talked about this, uh, a little bit before the interview, but we get, uh, often people who have, uh, very recognizable lives outside of Hoffman. And I kind of hold myself to not looking and not knowing too much. And so really, truly, I do see you for who you are.
And that today I did a little bit of research about you, and it's like, oh, wow. He's, he's amazing out in the world. But in that moment, in those, in that room, uh, when we are in that, that space, that is the truth. You picked up on the truth when we say that. You, you really did. And - To piggyback on that, my favorite part of the whole week is that nobody knows who you are or what you do. And my whole life has been defined by that.
Oh, you write these songs, or you play piano, you do, you play piano and you've done this, or you've achieved this. And, and, and you get lazy in that. And, and you don't, you might not socialize the way you should as you if somebody just did. You know what I mean? And I loved that. I loved having, I just, I feel like I made true connections based on nothing prior, you know? - Have you been able to bring that into your life? This, this whole, uh, yes, that is who I am.
I, I write songs, I play this, I sing that, but this is who I am. Has that been able to come into your life? - It's hard. It's hard because if somebody doesn't know you, and then they, they they know, oh, wow, you did this, or You, you wrote these songs. Or it becomes hard at that point. I, I don't know. I, I do struggle with that still. - That is the dance of, of fame.
And you are interesting in that, that you've got both the front facing and you're the behind the scenes too, is how does that play out? Is there one that you prefer more than the other, or? - It definitely really satisfies the ego when you can do a, a show like The Voice and you're on tv. And it's as if I, I've really enjoyed that. And I started thinking, I enjoying this for the wrong reasons. 'cause it's like, it's like really, you know, building my ego up and I'm like, wow, I'm on tv.
This is a, this feels amazing. But then I'm like, maybe that's not good for me. And so I get to live behind the recording console most of my life and helping other artists, you know, write songs and, and produce them to, and find, I help other artists find their voice. That's, that's kind of been my job for the last 12 years. And now I'm at a point where I, I kind of feel like I've lost a little bit of my voice and I've wanted to find it again. And so I've started working on my own music again.
And that's been a nice outlet for me. - It's interesting. I literally was going to ask the same thing. I, I think it's so beautiful that you say, I help artists find their voice, and there is such value and gift in that. And where my heart went was, what about your voice, ? - It got lost. It got lost along the, along the way. I always told people, I grinded it down.
Like, I, you, I always tell, like, if you move to Nashville as a, as a writer, and you were an artist before, which I was, you gotta kind of grind that dream down to truly be able to give, you have to be able to give fully. - Why did you get to the point where you, uh, how, how did that transition happen? You were started out as a performer and then you went to this, so how did, how did that happen? - It's funny. I came into Nashville.
I had a record deal as an artist, and I did all this stuff as an artist before. And then I came into Nashville. And my number one goal was to kill that off. And I didn't want anyone to know I did it. I wanted to be taken seriously as a songwriter and a producer. And I felt like in order to do that, I had to totally kill that. And I didn't want anyone to know I did it. I don't, I didn't want anybody to know I'd do it still. And, and so I killed that for about 12 years.
I kind of shut that down inside of me. And over the past two years, I've started to get curious again. I've started to, to develop it again and try and find that voice inside of me that, that had been lost. And it hadn't been lost. 'cause it, it had been giving to other, it had been, and I'm still doing that. I just, um, it's been really nice for me to, to reconnect with, I guess you'd say my spiritual self, you know, that that would be who I am, you know?
- Yeah. So, you know, there's a part of me that almost cries when I hear I, I killed that part of me. I, I shut it down. I shut it down. And I, I'm curious, as you reflect on it and maybe even acknowledge how much of it is still present in your life today, I suspect shutting down one part of us means we've shut down other parts of ourselves. And would you say that was your experience? - I think you're right. Yeah. So true. I mean, that's an emotional part of yourself.
And maybe I shut down my entire emotional self for 10 years. You know, I probably did. You know, I always, my wife always says, I never, I never for, I never remember kind of traumatic situations that happened. And I think it's 'cause I've just gotten really good at shutting things down. And it goes back to being a child and dealing with traumatic situations as a child. And I just, I think my way of dealing was it with, it was just to erase it from my memory.
And so I guess that's my way of dealing, and that's probably why I was like, I gotta, I have to erase this chapter of my life to be able to, to do this next chapter. And I just, I guess it's a cycle. And a, I got stuck in that cycle for a long time of erasing a part of who I was, you know?
- Yeah. To use Hoffman terminology, it, it, it might be a belief, a pattern that is expressed as a belief statement that, and it's literally the statement is, I need to erase, insert whatever in order to get to insert whatever. And, and I think what we're learning is that erase No, no, that voice came back, no erasing it - In my mind. I just thought, I have to erase my artist self to become the producer that I want to be. That that's just how I thought.
- And today, as, as a producer and an artist, how, how does that, do they show up equally or are they kind of battling? Are you internally trying to erase? - They're definitely not equal yet. Uh, I'm working on finding that voice of the, the artist's voice. Again, it's a fine line because I don't wanna stop being the producer that helps others find that, because it's, it's what's gotten me here, and I've loved doing it. I love, I love that process, but I also wanna feed my own a little bit.
- If there's anything that I've heard so far in this interview, it's, it's, uh, when you are your authentic self, you are even more powerful in all the other aspects of your life. Circle back with me, but I'm curious that as you step more into your own authentic creator, artist voice, you will probably become even more powerful at helping the other artists find their voices. - So true. So true. You know, what I've gotten good at since the process?
Sorry, this is a, but saying, no, that was always something before I would always be just, yeah, I can do that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I can do that. And I would just spread myself thin, but I, I learned how to be authentic to myself and I, that's not something that I wanna spend my time doing. You know? I actually got back from the process
and I kind of wanted to quit it all. I - Remember, - I know that's a common thing, and I know you guys at the process say, don't make any rash decisions within the first six months of getting back, but I really did. I was like, I'm just so happy. I, I, I just wanna do yoga all day and meditate. And I just found that, yeah, life's a balance and it's moderation. And I've, I've, I've gotten better at walking that line. - There's that word again, balance.
All of this ends up having you show up even more powerful. I, I mean, I remember that struggle around saying no, and I'm so happy to hear you say that. And look what's happened in these two years. I mean, it's, it's been, it is, there's been some, uh, at least from your career, it looks like there's been some, some nice movement towards a more whole expression, the whole artist that you are. - Yes. And I always put my worth in who I am on, based on how much I'm doing.
Am I doing enough that that's my myself? I was basing my self worth on that, and I, and I was realized that that's not where I should find my self worth. - I I'm curious also, you know, one thing that as I talk to more and more graduates, and, uh, this has been, first of all, hearing you talk about your experience in the process makes me just smile and, and, and realize and acknowledge to myself how much I love the work of, of being a Hoffman teacher.
- The best is you, what you do. It's the best. - I couldn't, I wouldn't trade it for anything. And also in interviewing graduates, I've, I, I have re fallen in love with all the people who show up courageously to do this work and then show up courageously to share about it in the podcast. And I am finding that there's this, uh, theme that the people who have the courage to do this level of personal work, and it takes courage as, as you're hearing in Ross's story, um, they come back to life.
And whether it's, you know, immediate or through time, they become more, uh, communal minded, more, more about the collective. And I'm curious if that was your experience, and if you can speak to that - About the collective. Yeah. Well, and to speak to what you said about courage, you know, I remember driving up to the, to the process and literally I almost turned around and left. I was so overwhelmed and scared. And, and when I was walking, I was like, oh, my, I, okay.
I was on the phone with Pat Dossett, like, pat, I don't know if I can do this. I think I might just book a flight home. Uh, and just, I appreciate you telling me to do this. But - After having done this level of inner work, do you feel more, um, more present to the collective meaning like, how am I impacting the people and what can I do to be a better person for my community, for the world, that kind of thing. - I've tried to really practice spreading gr, you know, giving out gratitude.
I, I think that's how I've learned how to give back more, actually since the process I have. I started a, a nonprofit called Song Farm, where I, I build studios in high schools, and we've built four studios now in four different high schools. Wow. You know, maybe I haven't even realized this yet, Sharon, that, that I have really turned a corner on the collective and wanting to give back to people as on a whole Yeah. May maybe you just, you just, uh, blew my mind a little bit.
- Well, this is another thing, people, and this, and I've noticed this in our entire interview, how, how we just go back into our lives and, you know, we start, we go back into that bum bubu, do, do, do be, you know, we're so that we don't realize the shift that has happened. And, and if I trace our entire conversation, I would bring it back to you had the courage to be your authentic self. And from that, all these other things happen.
You are now a more powerful person in giving artists their voice. You are now more integrated and more impactful in your immediate community and maybe larger community. Your words. You think about the impact that you have with the words you choose and your, and who you are in the, when you have the limelight. And all this started because you had the courage to do your inner work. - I didn't grow up seeing my parents really be charitable, and I, I didn't really know what that was.
And I had to kind of learn it. I had to learn a lot, you know, that we, that I worked through the process. I didn't, I didn't know. I didn't, I didn't know how to, how to be intimate, you know, with my wife. Really. I, I had to learn how to do that emotionally. So yeah, you really can learn all these, all these things. - Again, that, that just brings me back to this. You had this belief statement that you had to erase or you had to shut down.
And so of course, we can't just choose to shut down one thing without paying the price of shutting down something else. And there goes our intimacy, there goes our connection with the loved ones. There goes our relationships with our kids, et cetera, et cetera. - And that thing I shut down was my authentic self. That was my authenticity. It really was. That's so interesting. Good lord. 10 years of my life, - 10 years if not more.
Right? Who knows when, when we started and then you started letting it have presence and have a voice domino effect, ripple effect. And that's why we do what we do. Because there, and that's, that goes back to that I see you and I love you. It's that authentic version of yourself that, that we all want to come out and so do you. - And you can never be in that balanced place until you do.
You know? And I'm not anywhere near there yet either, by the way, you know, li I maybe if life is a percentage, I'm, you know, a hundred percent is when you're a hundred years old. I'm, I'm at 38%, 38 years old, 38%. Maybe that's how it works. - Wouldn't that be nice? I, I, I don't know if I believe that. I think you have to have some intent. We don't just get that by being on this earth. Uh, more years. We, we get that, that percentage goes up because we have the courage to do the work.
It's tell me something. How, when, when, when challenge or obstacle does come up in life, which, which it does. What what are your resources? How do you, how do you confront that? - Well, I have my Apple watch now, and it tells me to breathe, which is the best thing that that's ever happened to me. But, you know, I'm able to handle challenges with compassion.
I think I'm able to see the other side clearer now, and like we talked about before, not go into these dark patterns, feeling insecure, and why are they coming at me like this? They, well, they resentments and anger, and I'm able to just, just handle it, be a little more present, be a little more clear minded and balanced and compassionate. - Yeah. And I, I think about your, your line of work and how, how, uh, vulnerable it is. You, you're writing, it's your heart. Yeah. - It's so vulnerable.
And that's part of why I had to, to kind of whittle down my authenticity a little bit, because you'll, you know, you'll, you'll write a song and you'll send it to somebody and they'll be like, eh, that's okay. They're like, I don't really like that. Like, you know, and then it's like, oh, wow, God. And if you let that hurt you every time you, you couldn't do this for a living, you have to kind of numb it down a little bit. Well, okay, then let's change it to make it
how you like it, and then we'll fix it. You know? - But it's a creation from your heart, from your spirit, from your authentic self to use that again. And then you go out into the world and, and whether it's people you're delivering this product to, or just kind of the outside world, sometimes they're, it must not be the easiest thing sometimes. - Yes. And, and it's even harder when you're putting it out as yourself. If you're putting out music as you, then it's like people talking trash on.
It's like, oh God, that's me now. That's me. You know? I can at least sit back behind, you know, nobody knows that I wrote this song or produced it. The artist is the one that takes all the, the heat, you know? But I, I can just move on to the next song. - Do you feel like, um, there's a, a any, um, hiding that you do through that? - Oh, a hundred percent. I can, you know, if, if a song does really well, it's like, oh, I can tell everybody, oh, I did that. I produced that, I wrote that.
But if a song like kind of didn't, it's like you kind of forget about it. But I have a lot of compassion for artists, you know, actors, artists, uh, they, they deal with it. It's a lot. It's a lot on their shoulders. - It is a lot. And we are talk about lack of compassion. We as a people. - Oh, it's horrible. Yeah. - Meanwhile, they're putting themselves out there. - It's you, it's not a, it's you
as a human being. It's like, yeah, - That, um, having, having contact with, with people who are in the, uh, spotlight a lot has, has made me realize just how vulnerable it is. - And you, the compassion that I learned at Hoffman has, has given me a lot of compassion for actors and actresses that I don't know, that I see people coming at maybe on social media. And I'm just like, that is a human being, man. Like, they're not just a robot that can handle all these things coming at them.
- And this is our way of, by the way, coming back into the world and having an impact. You know, one person who, uh, shows up in a compassionate way, and maybe somebody asks you and you explain why you feel this compassion, and then it all kind of ripples. So, so again, the power of doing this work, this context of hiding and, uh, and you stepping into your own artistic self, I, I just feel there's this readiness for that spirit to come out and, and, and be, it seems balanced, right?
It's not, yes, there might've been an element of hiding to you being on the backend, but now you're ready to not hide and stay in the backend. So it's, you know, at Hoffman we talk about having choice. It doesn't have to be one or the other, but you get to choose when you are behind and when you are in front of the scenes, - , it's so true. I'm lucky that I can do that.
And I just have to be willing to accept the consequences, you know, and be able to deal with the, if the, the things that come at it, positive or negative, whatever happens, you build up your resilience. You know, Ross, - Ugh, every time I talk to you, it is so sweet.
You have such a positive and loving presence, and I so appreciate the way you have shown up so wholehearted and, um, revealing of yourself in this, in this vehicle, this podcast, given who you are, is just so touching to me and so courageous. I hope together we have impacted many listeners, and it is so nice to connect with you again, Ross, I hope we manage to connect more often. - Me too. Me too. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for asking me, and this is awesome.
- I love you, Rossi. Keep doing your amazing work. I can't wait to see you in the front and also producing and doing all of it from the most authentic place of who you are. - Love you, Sarah. - All right, listeners, we will see you next week. That was Mr. Ross Copperman. Thank you everybody for being here. - Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Insi. I'm the CEO and President of Hoffman Institute Foundation.
- And I'm Ra Rossi Hoffman, teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. - Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love - In themselves, in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to Hoffman institute.org.