I had picked up, unfortunately, from my upbringing patterns of negativity, judgment, critique. Somehow, some part of me recognized that that had to change and I had to fall madly in love with myself. It wasn't about anybody else seeing me or validating me. I had to be the one for me. And when I got that, everything changed. Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius.
It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute, and it's stories and anecdotes and people we interview about their life post process and how it lives in the world radiating love. This podcast contains discussion of sensitive topics, including disordered eating. Please use your discretion. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. Tamsen is with us. Welcome, Tamsen. Thank you, Drew. It's a joy to be here. I am super excited for this conversation.
And in trying to figure out where it starts, maybe let's go to you post process. You come out of the process. You had a good experience. You're enjoying life. And then soon thereafter, you go into pattern. Take us to that moment. What happens? You know, you've you hear this saying, everywhere you go, there you are.
That's exactly what happened. I had a few days of that Hoffman high post process, feel incredible, fly back home, get back into routine, familiar environment, habits, and it took me back to where I was before I left for the process, which was that feeling of dread, that difficulty getting out of bed, that, oh, no. It's another thing that didn't work for me. And it was devastating because I think we lose perspective when it feels that big and that heavy.
And after trying for so long to move past it, it seemed to be a temporary relief. And, oh, no, my old friend again. I'm thinking about you post process, and maybe you almost feel worse because it's like I thought I had it, and yet it was elusive. Here I am again, and now maybe you're more discouraged about the possibility of change. I think there was a deep shame because I was shouting from the rooftops how I'm a new me. I feel brand new. I feel so refreshed. And it felt so fleeting.
And then I didn't wanna tell anybody I'm back to the old me. I feel awful. I can't function. There was so much shame with that. And so I did what I always do. I isolated. Honestly, when it feels that dark, it can be difficult to get up, put on something, get out of the house, and all of the simple little things became a struggle again even to take a walk around the block. And there was really so much shame because the feeling when you're going through that is, why can I not get this right? Why
is this easy for everybody else? And here I am again. It's like, what's wrong with me? It's what's wrong with me, and I'll never get out of this. I'm the only one that's broken, and there's no solution for me. You feel so isolated in that moment. I felt so isolated in that moment, And I had been to so many personal development seminars, read every book. I had devoted so many years to figuring this out. And that excitement and joy of finally this was the one was not. Oh my gosh.
I get the struggle to get out of bed, but what old patterns reemerged in that here we go again? You know, I had been struggling with that specifically since I was a very young girl. I remember a very large part of my childhood was spent sleeping excessively, which was normal to me. It was only really much later in life looking back that I realized, hang on. That's signs of depression. That's not normal. That's not something that a child should be doing.
It just became so familiar and followed me through life that it was just the way that I adapted and functioned and lived. Besides that, I think you stack on all the other patterns, all the other habits. I had such a terrible relationship with food. From that same young age, there's no other word for it other than I binged, but it wasn't apparent to anybody else because I never gained weight. I feel like I should have been a few hundred pounds with the amount of emotional
eating I did throughout my lifetime. Now it was never consistent, but it was always recurring. That's an interesting distinction you made there. It's never consistent but always recurring. It was a feast famine situation and that followed my money and it created the same pattern. So it was weight and it was finances, and those were the two areas of life that I ran that same pattern, extreme highs, extreme lows. It manifests in different areas of your life.
What was happening in those moments post process where you really thought you had failed the process, and here we go again back in this struggle place after yet another workshop, also was what was happening in your childhood where you went into those patterns of eating and, sleeping long periods of time, a struggle to get out of bed.
This is not a success story, but there's something in your story which is familiar to some of our grads, which is they have that wonderful feeling, and then they go back into pattern. I'm fascinated to interview you because something shifts. Something happens differently. So take us to the struggle bus that you're on post process. How does the narrative shift? What happens?
I think at the stage of my life that I did the process, there was so much added pressure, which was the greatest gift ever because I had to figure it out. I could not continue living like that. I found myself in a new country reestablishing myself, my business. I had no safety net. I had no familiarity. I felt completely exposed, and it was, I think, amplified. It amplified everything that had been going on through all the decades leading up to that Because
where do I go now? If I don't figure this out, if I don't get my business back up and running in this new country. And my thoughts started spiraling. How do I keep a roof over my head? What happens? And so there was a quiet, desperate urgency to figure it out. And I think what I recognized was because this was the fourth really traumatic time in my life in different decades and different seasons where I reached a moment of surrender.
It was an allowing, almost a welcoming of that enemy, that darkness to the table to sit down with me, and I recognized some of the work that we had done in the process allowed me to get to that point to not be so afraid and to not keep running from that darkness. The more you run from it, the more you fear it, it tightens its grip. It's it feels almost like hands around your throat and you can't breathe. Do you remember where you were when you had that kind of, I
am surrendering to this. I will not run from this anymore. That lesson you took from the process where I don't wanna be afraid of this darkness. Where are you when that's happening? There were really two parts to it. One was just before the process, I was introduced to the concept of willingness. Just saying I am willing to change because I did not know how to change, and just being willing allowed an opening. And so I came into the process with that mindset.
And in the process, facing everything without running away because that's the process. There is no way to run. There is no way to hide. Sure. You're not tied in there against your will. You can leave if you really want to. But I knew I was there for a reason. And I knew if I don't confront this now, what's next? There is nothing else after this. And I think getting back home, it didn't happen in a single moment that I can pinpoint that was the day, that was the time.
It was something that happened over many individual single miracle moments is what I would call it. And just leaning in one little step forward, maybe two steps back the next day, but it was a renewed faith. It really was a decision. I know there was a distinct time that decision happened. I couldn't pinpoint it now, but I knew I was done suffering. I knew I was, it was a decision that I am not a victim. So why am I allowing this to overcome
me? There's no physical danger. There's no actual threat. It gave me the perspective, and I somehow found another level within me of strength, of courage, and nobody's coming to save you. I had to pick myself up. Looking back, it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. These enormous fears that get in the way of progress. It felt like one of the most terrifying battles, and yet I was able to take that first step.
I'm really moved by your story here because I think in it is a really important sort of lesson, if you will. Change really happens when we respond differently to the struggle we're having, when we react from a place of courage. I hear so much courage. No one is coming to rescue me. What is next if I don't navigate this differently? But I also hear a ton of compassion. I don't wanna be afraid of this anymore.
Your experience that you allowed yourself to have post process where you went back into the same patterns you had pre process, but what was different was how you navigated, how you met yourself in those pattern places was very, very different. I think the you've touched on something so important. The compassion is the difference between staying in it and breaking free from
it. And I'll give you an example. The little, toddler who's trying to walk, who takes a few steps, falls on their butt, we're not gonna go and kick the three year old, two year old in the ribs and say, you suck. You should just never walk. You can't do this. Yet that's how we treat ourselves. So much judgment, so much critique, so much negativity. It's never good enough. And I see it as, well, when this kid takes a few steps and then falls down, you are excited. You're cheering them on. Oh
my goodness. You took two steps. And, you know, this is exciting. This is thrilling. And I had to be that person for myself. I had picked up, unfortunately, from my upbringing patterns of negativity, judgment, critique. And somehow, some part of me recognized that that had to change, and I had to fall madly in love with myself. It wasn't about anybody else seeing me or validating me. I had to be the one for me. And when I got that, everything changed.
What was it like to be in pain, but to meet yourself and fall in love with yourself in those moments? What was that experience, and how was it different as opposed to being in pain and meeting yourself with so much self judgment and criticism and abandonment, if you will? How were those early experiences of loving yourself in that pain? It was such an interesting experience, and it's one that
everybody has to go through. It's almost like meeting somebody new and going through the different stages of awkwardness. You know, it started with a little bit of eye contact and looking at myself in the mirror. I don't know that I had ever done that. I don't know that I'd ever truly seen myself other than to critique, oh, you've got a wrinkle. Oh, I'd you know, your hair looks terrible. Something emerged as I was able to really connect, be truthful, be honest. The tears would flow.
There's something so special. It's unfamiliar. It's uncomfortable. It's as confronting as sitting eyeball to eyeball with a stranger. So it takes time. It's not as if in the moment that I decided to do this, everything was roses. It took time. I had to develop that relationship. I had to be committed to really connect with myself daily and make it the most important thing in my life because I am. Yeah. You are the most important thing in
your life. Wow. And would you say in that getting to know yourself again, I love the idea that it's like meeting a stranger, and it's awkward at times and uncomfortable, deeply uncomfortable. Would you say that the process helped you in those moments of meeting yourself in that pain, getting to know yourself again, that it was the process that helped you? Without a doubt, the process helped me in so many ways. And with that specifically,
there's no shame, there's no judgment. The process allows you to put everything on the table. Sometimes things you haven't thought about for a very long time, sometimes things that you've blocked out even. It reconnects you to every part of yourself and illuminates it in a way that it just is. There's no good. There's no bad. There's just my life experience. And once you're okay with all parts of yourself, it frees you. It loosens that grip that I was talking about of shame and not enoughness.
And that expansion opens up capacity and it frees energy for a focus on where I'm moving to rather than all of the baggage and the weight and the burden that I'd been holding on to from my painful past that had never been dealt with or processed. And so it was incredibly helpful for sure. Tamsen, you're talking about something that is slightly counterintuitive.
But so I just wanna name it because I think many people get stuck in this idea that to run from struggle is to lock yourself into struggle. But you said when you accept all parts of who you are, when you embrace it all, then there's something that gets loosened, and you can begin to generate good energy as a result of, embracing all of who you are. Does that feel counterintuitive to you? Or I'm so glad you have raised this because it is completely counterintuitive.
It is the opposite of anything we would imagine, and it's the most difficult concept to describe to somebody who hasn't been to the other side of this. It feels as if you want to run away. If I can tell you in my experience, anything that feels uncomfortable, messy, dark, scary, it made me want to run-in the other direction. You've heard the saying, what you resist persists. And so this is exactly what's happening. The more I feared it, the more I ran away from it, the tighter it held on to me.
And interestingly, and this is why I always say welcome your enemy, welcome the darkness, let everybody come and sit with you at the table, welcome with open arms, with love, with light. That's like standing up to the bully in school. That is when everything dissolves and you are free. You know, you and I talked earlier about moments in time in your process. Like many people, you don't remember a lot, do you? It's not as if you can
pinpoint specific moments, can you? There's a few highlights, I would say, where I can remember being in a specific venue, going through a specific exercise. You know, a lot of the specifics in terms of language and terminology and curriculum, I would say I don't remember everything in detail. I do remember the transformation. I do remember how I felt. And isn't that so true? That's what we always remember. We are these thinking, feeling human beings having this experience.
And so I couldn't recite back the entire process. It's just so complex and so incredible and so thoughtfully crafted and put together. It's it's absolutely genius. That's why there are incredible facilitators to do that, and I get to be a part of that ride. Why does it feel important to note that while you don't remember the curricula and specific moments and lessons and teachings, it actually doesn't matter because the felt sense of the experience
is what you do remember. Why is that an important distinction? I think like anything in life, what I am meant to retain, I will. There will be other things at a subconscious level that will serve me, And it's not about obsessing over I mean, I've got the workbooks and I do review and revisit, but I took away exactly what I needed. It would not be the same for every person in the room, but it altered me in a way that I just allowed and trusted and knew that this is not for
me to control. The universe is so big and expansive, and I cannot control everything. There's definitely an allowing of whatever needs to move through me. I'm open. I'm ready. I love you. I'm here. Beautiful. I hear so much surrender in that you talk about allowing. And earlier, you shared a concept that you had just learned. What was that? Prior to my process, as I mentioned, I have studied every thought leader, every teacher. It's been my obsession. It's why I do what I do.
And the concept of willingness was one of the most pivotal things. And I've found for many people, it shifts a person so quickly because this is what gets us stuck. I don't know what the end looks like. I don't know how to get from here in this mountain of pain to the other side where I'm free and things are easy. And so that willingness, just being willing to change, frees up some energy to take that first step. And I always say you just need five seconds of courage. There's no actual
physical threat, yet it feels terrifying. It feels as though there's an invisible seatbelt or something holding you back. And that willingness seems to be such a dissolver of a percentage of that fear that gives you that little bit of momentum to take the first step.
As I'm sitting here reflecting on your struggle post process, I keep saying struggle, but, you know, pattern, dark side, suffering, you name it, I think that your spirit, your essence, your authenticity, your innate goodness allowed you to really go into pattern, actually gave you the experience.
It actually gifted you. I'm going to help you heal by giving you an experience of your dark side and your patterns post process so that you can meet yourself and have the experience of loving yourself in the very depth of your pain. There was a very deep knowing, and and you're correct, that once I figure this out for myself, there are so many other people who I can help with this. I had been bypassing it, I think, for a very long time.
I'd figured out the basics of how I can function and have just enough capacity to help my clients, to help everybody else, but I was struggling with my own stuff behind the scenes.
And somehow, I knew I don't know how I knew it was just an internal knowing and intuitive knowing that this is bigger than me, that the answers are not going to be logical, And that if I just keep going and just be willing to take that one more step, I'm going to figure this out and see it in a way that nobody else is able to see it and reflect that back to anybody else
who is going through that same struggle. Because you're right, most people aren't able to join the dots and have the perspective and look back. I think something incredible happens when you're on the other side of that pain, when that emotional charge is removed. When the pain is removed, you have the wisdom of knowing how you got to the point. And it's such a deeply painful, profound way of learning something that will stay with you forever and that you will never take for granted
and be able to fully let go. It's it feels like an absolute privilege and gift that why would I not want to help? I I don't want anybody to spend a moment longer than they need to feeling that way because I've spent a few decades feeling that way myself. Having gone through that, what do you notice on this side of those experiences? I've noticed that feelings are not good, they're not bad, they're all going to come, but I see them so
differently now. We have this full range of emotions, and we're here to experience all of them. I think I had such a limited perspective before because everything felt so heavy. Whereas now, I welcome and I allow all of it, and it's incredibly freeing. It's allowed me to focus on so much more, to build so much more, to give back so much more. And it's not coming from a place of being desperate to get from point a to point b. Things just flow. I work on projects that feel good.
I pause when I feel that my body needs time to pause. There's no shame. There's no over analyzing. There's no explaining, apologizing, feeling like I'm, you know, in the way. I think something you said to me, Drew, rarely stood with me during the process because you could see I was struggling. And you said, Tamzin, take up your space in this world. And so I think, you know, pre process, I felt like I was a burden. I felt like I was always
in the way. Whether I was in traffic, whether I was standing in a line, I would get out of the way and make space for everybody else. And now I feel like I belong and I have my place in this world, and that is a gift and something that I could never possibly forget. It's it's such a life changer. So what's next for you? What does the future hold as you step into this taking up your space more and more fully?
So much has changed. I think professionally, I've really found my voice and my confidence and really leaned back into all the parts of me that are here to serve and here to shout it from the rooftops because what I do matters. I have cofounded with some really powerful women a new business in addition to what I am doing that's really gonna help a lot of people. And I'm just incredibly grateful for a lot of new exciting projects and ventures and a clean slate, if you will, to really expand
what's possible. And I've got a lot of dreams and very big goals, and I'm sure we'll have another conversation when I get to the other side of everything that is in motion right now. And I love this idea of generative energy flowing. It sounds like you're not in your own way, and you're allowing the energy inside you to emerge. It feels like I've come home to me. You know, Drew, I've moved around the world a lot, and there have been so many different seasons.
And I've realized that home is a feeling. Home is within me. And I can say at, you know, this stage and decade of life, I finally feel like I am home. I do belong. I love myself. And I think it's been a lifelong quest of what is my purpose? Why are we here? What is self love even? And these are very difficult concepts to explain. And I have such a deep understanding and appreciation for how complex this is, as well as how important it it really is a must.
One of the things that's emerging for me is your persistence. You have not given up year after year on finding your purpose, finding joy, finding that flow state. This is important to you and you haven't let it go, have you? I really haven't. My first trauma tragedy, if you will, happened at the age of four. And I think that really shaped my outlook and the way I approached the world. And I think I've spent every moment since then trying to move away from the pain of feeling insignificant,
of struggling to make eye contact. It was something so deeply important to me. I've lived a very interesting life. I've moved around the world. I've had conversations with monks and shamans, and I've really tried every modality, everything out there. And it just feels like a natural part of why I'm here, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm so grateful for this conversation. What's it like to reflect on your story, your journey over the decades?
It's something that I'm incredibly proud of because to your point, you said you've persisted. You've kept going. You've never given up. I think many people would. I think that it would be okay if I had, honestly. I think looking back now, taking stock, there is such an appreciation for everything I get to experience, the places I've been able to visit, the teachers I've been able to learn from. And I think that is available to all of us.
Again, back to that word willing. If you're just willing, the right book will land up on your lap. The right conversation will happen. You'll overhear something while you're standing in a queue. So I'm just incredibly grateful for every moment that has brought me to this point here, every painful thing that has happened, every situation, every circumstance, every mistake I've made because there've been so many of those, and every single one of them has given me the life that I have today.
And I never would have been here if I had just stayed in bed as that little girl and not been brave enough to venture out in the world. So I have a lot of love and appreciation for that version of me. Timpson, thank you for this conversation. I am so grateful to sit down and have this conversation. You know how much love I have for all things Hoffman. So it's been an absolute joy and a privilege. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Hoffman podcast.
My name is Matt Brannigan. I'm the CEO of the Hoffman Institute Foundation and a Hoffman teacher. Our mission is to provide greater access to the wisdom and power of love within ourselves, in our relationships, and in the world. To learn more or to support our mission, we invite you to visit hoffmaninstitute.org.