This is, I think, something that's really important. It's gonna sound maybe crazy or maybe impossible, but I can tell you it's true that I healed relationships with people at the process where I never had to have a conversation with them about it. Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius.
It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute and its stories and anecdotes and people we interview about their life post process and how it lives in the world radiating love. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Hoffman podcast. Sarah Hearnholm. Welcome. Oh, well, it's lovely to be here, my friend and coach. Wow. Well, we're psyched to have you, and listeners are psyched for a great conversation.
You've done so much in the world, an entrepreneur, a nonprofit founder, an executive director, a former teacher, and one who founded Wit, whatever it takes. And you're a speaker. You've done three TED Talks, Lots of stuff on your website. So much in the world that you're helping create with young people. Will you tell us a little bit about, first, what you do in the world professionally?
The overarching thing is I just wanna help young people feel a sense of value and self worth, and I believe in doing that through entrepreneurship. I think it's a really great way to learn to be of service to others and to develop grit and fortitude and resilience. So I do that through WIT, which is a nonprofit organization where young people can launch social movements, give back projects, businesses, nonprofits,
podcasts if they want. Something to let them use their unique gifts and talents in the world and not have to wait until they're adults. I have a podcast. I write for different publications. But, really, it all comes down to just really wanting to work with young people and young adults and helping them find a sense of purpose. Sarah, let's go to your process. Like, what led you to the process? You're based out of San Diego, but you did the process in Connecticut.
How'd you get there? Well, I picked Connecticut for a reason because I was splitting time between San Diego, New York City, and I liked that idea of popping out of the city and doing it there. It felt like where I was supposed to go. I don't know everybody else's experience, but I know mine, which was a little bit of sick and tired of being sick and tired and revisiting, like, the same situation again and again and again.
This happens in my life where you start hearing people talk about something, and you're like, wait. What is okay. I'm listening. Like, Like, why do I keep hearing about Hoffman, Hoffman, Hoffman? And I would hear about it from people that I really respected, like a lot of men in the workforce and high power jobs that were talking about it. And so that got me interested because I was like, okay. It's not just gonna
be some, like, woo woo thing. Okay. Because if these guys are going, that must mean something. So I I just said we're opening up the laptop, and they have the you have this, like, great slogan on the home page, which is like, yeah, when you're serious about change. And I was. And I really, you know, my motto is whatever it takes in life. It's I teach that motto. I live that motto. And I just was tired. I was tired of this pattern, and I needed to change it. And I
wanted to change it. But I remember, like, doing the interview, I was as I'm sure you will not be surprised, you know, I was pushing back on my phone call of, like, well, better not be this, and it better I hope it's not like this. And I remember one of the things I said was, I can't go into a room and hear about everyone's problems because I already do that in my life, in my job, because I'm gonna wanna fix everybody and save everybody.
And they're like, it's not that. And I was like, how is it not that if we're all going there because we have shit? And and it wasn't. What would be your answer to that question that how is it that you can go into a room where everyone has these problems and yet it's not all about people sharing those problems and, therefore, you having to fix everybody because that's what you normally do in your life. How did it end up not being that?
Because what I experienced was that you can do the work and be called to do the work without having to hear everybody doing the work and hearing their stories. And I think that's what the Hoffman process does really well. There's something about the way it's facilitated and done that you just feel like it's tailored to you without having to talk about all your stuff and without having to listen to everybody else's stuff. And there's a lot of language in the
world. You gotta hold space for people. You gotta hold space for people. But a lot of us hold space, like, every day for people in our lives, and we need to, like, not have to do that. And we need to go somewhere that allows us to just go in and almost be selfish with your healing and with your work, and I think that was my experience. So that was really beneficial to me. Full transparency. Didn't love it right away. Wanted to leave
because it was a lot. You know? It's easier to focus on other people than yourself. Yeah. I was gonna say you don't have to hold space for other people. It was a week where you got to hold space for yourself. Yeah. But sometimes you like to avoid. Yeah. Caretaking turns out has some patterns of avoidance in it. Doesn't it? Yes. For sure.
So you find yourself, as I've heard in maybe an article you wrote or where you were interviewed that entrepreneurship is great, but there's a culture around entrepreneurship that is all about burnout and almost glorifying burnout. Was that part of what led you to the process as well? This is something gosh. I it's so fun to be, like, thinking about that experience for myself and how healing it was for me and the resistance to get there. You know?
Sometimes there is a resistance to actually face the things. That's normal. I mean, that's super normal. You know, like, always, like, go running and, like, skipping into healing. But I think when it comes to, like, burnout, deeper than that for me was just so much identity around my work. So much praise
around my work. So much recognition around my work, but yet feeling empty inside and feeling like there was just areas of my life, specifically my personal life, that I just could not seem to get healing around or growth around or the outcomes that I wanted, but I could really produce and work. And what I remember gosh. I haven't thought about this. At the end of the process, there's a chance to kind of introduce yourself and talk
about what you do. And I didn't even wanna do that because, you know, you don't talk about your work and everything during this whole experience. And at the end, you have a chance to. I didn't even want to because it was so nice for that whole week to just not try to get value and worth from my work. That is something that I struggled with that, like, a lot of my identity was in my work and and how much I could produce.
And then not so much now. I think the culture is changing a bit, but definitely back when I started my business fifteen years ago, there was a lot of pride and hustle and grinding. Wait. You don't work, like, twenty four seven, then you don't want it. I was guilty of it, and I was guilty of passing it on to our young entrepreneurs. And now I don't at all.
We say that if you are doing that, then you're we're they're doing something wrong, and we're doing something wrong because that is not how we live at Wits. Our motto is whatever it takes, and we'll say, we do whatever it takes to make sure we're taking care of ourselves first and foremost before we start doing things for other people. That's a shift for sure over the years. Yeah. You mentioned that at the beginning of the week, you didn't love it. Gotta be honest. Didn't love it.
So what happened? Like, how did that shift? I'm kinda curious if you could take us into your week. So I was feeling resistance to the process and what was going on, and two things happened. One was it was during a break. I went into the elevator to go up to my room, and out loud, I said, the hard homes don't do this. And it was like this generalization of just kind of, like, how I've lived my life or, like, my identity around how I might have grown up. Like, just a little bit of, like, we
are very private people. So, like, what are what am I doing in this space of, like, letting these feelings out or whatever? So that was an interesting resistance. And that resistance led to me being like, I'm out. Like, I'm bouncing. Like, I'm out. If it's uncomfortable, I can bounce, and I can bounce really easily because I can hop on a plane, and I can go, and I can do, and I can produce. I do not like feeling trapped, and I do not like feeling like there's not an exit strategy.
Word got back that I was ready to bounce, and I was sitting in the lobby of this location. And you came out, and you were just like, cool. Yeah. I mean, if you want to, like, totally understand. Like, you can go. But do you think that you could, like gosh. I might get emotional, but, like, you were like do you think you could just give it, like, one more day? Just one more session, one more thing, and then totally go. And that is the kind of person that I
need in my life for a coach. Just like, can you just don't have to commit forever. I don't have to commit for seven days. But there's this really interesting thing that you're gonna be doing this afternoon, and I just think you're gonna get something from it. And if you don't, like, hugs and, like, go on your way. I finished the whole week, and it was one of the best things I've ever done in my life. Sarah, you mentioned some possible tears. What was so tender about that moment in that week?
Because I think that sometimes you just, like, need people to meet you where you're at, and you just need people to not push you too much. You know? I'm like a doer for sure. I love a good, you know, trainer that's like, you can do five more reps. Like, you've got this. Like, you know, I have that, like, athlete sense of, like, who I am around. Just like, let's go. Let's do let and I love that part of me.
But there's sometimes sometimes you just need someone to, like, get down for you into small steps. It can be really overwhelming to take on the history of being yourself and of what that has been. Oh my god. It can be really overwhelming to take on the history of being yourself and what that has been. I think you just described every person's experience when they attempt to change some sense of being overwhelmed by the history of having been this person up until now.
And there's also this feeling that comes with you can be ready for change, and you can be willing to do the work. Those things can be true. And you can get into the reality of doing that work and feel resistance and feel justifiable resistance or even the patterns of blame. For me, although I'm somebody who is very big on taking responsibility for my actions and I wanna own it and not make excuses, there are times that I can go, like, for example, I'll just be specific for this experience.
Well, the way that person talks is, like, really annoying. And so why would I wanna stay here? But they can't even get to a point. They're just, like, talking in circles, and, like, I'm allowed to be annoyed by that because, hello, you're running this operation here, like, get to the point. So that can feel, like, really justifiable. That's just another pattern or another excuse to not take responsibility and, like, and take action. So that was something that I definitely experienced.
And then when you stayed, Sarah, and you didn't leave, what else transpired for you? That was mid to early mid part of the week. How did the week unfold? What happened? Yeah. That was definitely the beginning. I'm saying that was probably day two or three that that happened for sure. I was resistant day one. I mean, another coach that was there listened to one of my pieces of feedback of how I was noticing things going. So I was still looking outward and eventually
went inward. But I think a lot of it has to do with you know, what I really think helped was how much we were quiet. So there's, like, a lot of things that happen, but then you can go off and it's really, like, required that you just be quiet. And that was really helpful for me. Sometimes when the outside is quiet, it even helps you go inside.
So I think I just eventually, throughout the week, trusted the process, got more evidence that it worked, got more proof that I was feeling better, saw things working and saw things shifting even within me that I didn't even know were possible to shift and change. But I definitely took, like, a day by day approach. I think that that's honest to say or session by session. Yeah. And that kind of chunking it up helped make it more manageable.
Sarah, you come out on Friday, and what do you remember about emerging at the end of your week? A few things. One, thank goodness I didn't go right back into the city. I took some time to go somewhere and just reentry is a real thing. I remember, like, not wanting to get on my phone. I remember not wanting to, like,
plug back in. I was a little nervous that I wouldn't be able to savor everything that I learned, you know, that I was gonna all of a sudden just disappear if I logged back in right away to all of the different platforms and all those kinds of things. I do remember a feeling for sure, a feeling of real inner peace and calm, and a feeling of and a knowing that I had a new set of tools in my tool kit, which that was really cool to me. When I came out of my process, COVID had just kicked off.
I was so well equipped to handle what came so quickly with my business because I had these tools. It was such a gift, very divine order of events for me to have gone in right before that happened in our world. And then my mindset and my way to handle things was very different than it would have been if I hadn't had the tools. That was such a beautiful process, such transformation, such connection, and then we head into this disconnection, isolation of COVID.
What's so interesting and what's a gift that everybody that works at Hoffman gave us is they they didn't tell us. You don't really know what's happening on the outside world when you're in the process. We got to have that experience, and I'm so grateful they let us go all the way through. I think it's just a testament to, like, why going to the process is so beneficial. It's like, you get these tools that will help you in the real world no matter what's coming
at you. We came out to something that was life changing, ultimately, like a life changing experience. And for some of us, for many years, based on where you lived in the country, you know, a lot of us I mean, I was out in California, which is very different than what happened to people that were living in Tennessee. That was a very unique experience for some of us, you know, based on where you
were in this country. And I'm just grateful so grateful that I had that experience before I dealt with all that. Sarah, not everybody did what you did, and that is you felt so much gratitude. You made a donation to the guest house. I was just reading and doing some research around your stuff. Gratitude is a thing for what you talk about. Can you just share a little bit about, you know, why the gratitude and the donation and how wit and you hold gratitude in your life? Gratitude is everything.
It's a part of my everyday life. Let's say things aren't going my way. Things aren't happening as I would like them to happen. The deal hasn't gone through, and, you know, certain things have not happened. I say thank you in advance. Thank you in advance for the good that is already on its way and for the solution that is coming because this isn't the end, and this isn't the final say on this topic or on this situation.
So I just wanna say thank you in advance for what's coming, and I appreciate this opportunity to learn and to grow. That's a tool that I use. I teach young people to focus on the give more than the get because you wanna walk in the world focusing more on the give, not what people are supposed to give you or, like, what you're supposed to get from people. Ultimately, you end up getting so much in life when you focus on the give more than the get,
but that's a big thing. We also teach this is sounds very trite in elementary, but I used to be an elementary school teacher. So we focus on something called a gratitude sandwich at Witt. And, yes, I work with teenagers and young adults, so it doesn't matter. We all love a little fun way to remember something. But to always in life, even if you're giving feedback to somebody is, like, focus on something that's good and give great gratitude for that.
And then focus on something that might need improvement, and then focus on something that is going well. So just a lot of focus and discipline. It's a muscle that you must work if it does not come naturally for you. But gratitude is ultimately kept my heart open when it came for finding love, you know, which is something that came later for me in life.
But if I had gotten really cynical and felt like I was gonna be the one left out of that kind of experience in life, that could've really prevented me from meeting what ultimately became the love of my life because my gratitude was, like, thank you for the man that's on his way to me. I don't know who he is yet. Gotta be really great if he came sooner rather than later. But it really kept up me to have an open heart, and
that's what gratitude can do for you. It keeps you from being cynical, and it keeps you from feeling like you're left out of the good. Do you feel like Hoffman has spilled over into helping you be a better partner in your marriage? I was a different person when I came out of Hoffman. Now to anybody thinking that it's, like, a great little recipe of, like, you go in, then you come out, you find the love of your life, that's not what happened.
It was a couple years later, but it laid a foundation for me. Hoffman was the first place where I saw grown men in strong masculine energy feel their feelings in a way that was at first uncomfortable for me, and then, for lack of a better word, very attractive to me.
I didn't know those two things could be true, that you could be a strong, like, masculine energy male and also feel your feelings and have that not mean that I then needed to, like, take care of you in a way that was, like, not really my job. That was a very transformative experience for me to see men that were able to be very strong, like alpha male energy men, and also be very in touch with their feelings and articulate things at times when it was
necessary. Because you don't really talk a whole lot about your stuff at Hoffman. But, yeah, that was a very interesting thing for me to see. That's cool. In those men breaking the stereotype of what it means to be a man by allowing emotion to become part of their expression and the vulnerability that comes with that. In their breaking of that gender role, you also were able to break your gender role and feeling like you had to take care of them or mother them, you could just
be yourself in the presence of that. Yeah. I really did learn that. I know that that has helped me. That was just a very big thing for me to see all of that. I think that sometimes, I guess, I thought, you know, women are this way and men are this way or whatever those things are that you kind of just the conclusions that you draw in your life. And so it really was wonderful for me to see what I saw
at the process. And then in in terms of my marriage, I just know that I'm a better person having gone through the process with more tools, more awareness. Although, I love this as something that that's also pointed out at the process in the beginning or even, like, before you get there. There's some language around when you're almost in self awareness paralysis, like a loop. Like, there's almost, like,
so much self awareness you can do. Like, you're so self aware that you're almost sick and tired of how much you are aware of all of your stuff. That was, like, a big thing for me was, like, I can't go through one more workshop or retreat that helps me become more self aware. I am very aware of what's going on. I would like to move through it, and I would like to
have a different set of tools. And so that was really helpful to me because I'm a somebody that people might look at through my work and my resume as being, like, a little bit of a self help person. There's some truth to that, but I'm also somebody who just, sometimes you need, like, to shake things up and just not be all self aware.
Yeah. I think awareness hell is sometimes what we call it just because people use their intellect to create awareness, but their body and their emotional self, their spirit are kinda lagging behind. That's exactly what it was. And I remember laughing laughing in relativeness. Like, that's exactly how it feels. Oh my gosh. Yes. That's exactly how it feels. Yeah. This is the importance of cellular experiences, immersive experiences that engage your whole
part of your being. Yes. That is something that you do at the process. The immersive experience at a cellular level resulted in me having a lot of freedom in some of my relationships. This is, I think, something that's really important. It's gonna sound maybe crazy or maybe impossible, but I can tell you it's true that I healed relationships with people at the process where I never had to have a conversation with them about it.
There was healing in relationships that I have and had that came through the results of the immersive experience at the process. And not because I had to have a conversation with them about something. I became different. And I showed up in those relationships in a different way as a result of the experience that I went through at the process. Wow. So the relationships you had pre and post process are very different, but not because you had some processing
conversation with those people. It's just because you were different. Yeah. Because I processed at the process. And so then the stuff that I needed to work through was worked through. So then when I went back into those relationships, I was no longer looking for certain things from those people or needing certain things or even feeling certain things because I'd already worked through them. And I think that's such a beautiful thing to know about life and about the
process. Yeah. You talked about talking about this with people. But when you recommend it, how do you do that in your work, in your personal life? What's that look like? Well, sometimes people might ask me, well, tell me how you you're able to have this type of approach to life or this reaction to this situation. And then I that would be a way that I can talk about, well, you know, I've got different tools in my tool kit, different things that I've done.
And one of the experiences has been the Hoffman process. I think because in my world, I'm around people that are very high achieving people, and they don't have a lot of people in their work life that they can share their vulnerabilities with or their issues with because, like, they have to always have it together.
I know what that looks like and what that can sound like when I can tell that people are just trying to hold it together and don't have a place or a person to share that things are a lot harder than they care to admit, I like to recommend the Hoffman process to people like that. Because when you're, like, the top of the food chain at your work, not many people wanna hear that you have problems because you're supposed to be fixing all of theirs. And I think people need help that are leading.
Yeah. And you have fewer and fewer peers. Fewer and fewer peers and not a lot of people that wanna hear that you are struggling because they're relying on you to be the one that's helping them through their struggle, and they don't wanna think that their leader is struggling too. Or sometimes it can be a situation where some of us are thriving in our work life, but really struggling in our personal life. You get to live a life where both feel balanced.
Sarah, I can't end this conversation without asking about adolescents and tweeners in a changing world. They're a focus. They're changing themselves, going through radical things in their lives, physiologically, but also emotionally. What do you notice in dealing with this generation's adolescent group and preadolescent group? What what are some of your observations about that sector of our population? Well, you know, I just have such respect for teenagers.
I really do. That's why I work with them. I really appreciate what they're navigating and the world that we created for them and the things that we put in their hands. For example, phones and apps. And then we expected them to then thrive as human beings, but no without any guardrails around consuming what's out there in the world on these phones and on these apps. They're looking for a sense of belonging, but so is everybody,
honestly. I mean, I think because I work with young people and I work with adults, I just see what we all have in common, which is just the majority of us wanna feel loved. Well, I think everybody wants to feel loved, whether they wanna use that word, that language or not. Everyone wants to feel loved, wanna feel valued, and we wanna feel a sense of purpose, like a reason to get up in the morning, a sense of, you know, contributing, validation of some kind. And that's the same for young people.
Unfortunately, I don't think adults have done a really good job of creating a world for them that validates them for the things that really make them special. Adults created a world, an education world that says if you get a's, we validate you on a higher level. If you are, you know, successful in, like, doing all these sorts of extracurricular activities, then you get validation and recognition, and then we want you in this club, or then we want you in
our college. Young people have a lot more to offer than just high GPAs and high point scores in a on a sports team. Like, there's a lot more going on with them, and I would just wish that there was more opportunities for them to share those other gifts. Well, thank you for your service to this group of people which is often overlooked. Right? Yeah. And thought down upon. People kind of roll their eyes at teens, like, teenagers. Like, they're so this. They're so that.
I think we need to take another look at our adult role and what we've done to teenagers. Yeah. Point the finger back at us, look in the mirror. Yeah. I mean, we're the adults in the room. We're the adults. We're raising them. Okay. So if you don't like something or you don't like what they're doing, what's your role in that? Because they're just young people with, like, twelve years on the planet just trying to figure it out. So I think we can
do better. So what's it like to have reflected here on your life, on your process, remembering those days, years ago? What do you notice in the reflecting on it? I was really honored when you asked me to come on the podcast. I was even telling my husband, like, I really wanna be so present for that conversation because that experience meant so much to me and changed my life. And then I said to him, I also, though,
just want everyone to go. When something changes your life at such a deep level, you just want other people to know that that it's out there for them to have that chance to do it. And there's a lot that happens in the process that you're asked not to go out and talk about in the world. I never have because I so desperately want people to have the experience in its purest form that I would never wanna ruin it or attain it or do anything. So that's kind of respect that
I have for it. But talking to you about it today has been very emotional for me because you were my coach. So that's that's very significant to me to see you again and to hear your voice again and to know that you were in the trenches with me. And I think it's really wonderful that I've had people in the trenches with me that I may not see every day. I mean, I don't see you every day. I don't talk to you every day. You know, we're not in touch
on a regular basis. But that was something that I was like, gosh. This is gonna be so special to see the person that guided me through that week and really saw all different sides of me and then didn't cast me aside. That was really important to me to have somebody see all the different parts of me and still stand by me and still encourage me and still think that I had value in the world that was not even connected to anything that I was producing in my work, but just because of who I am.
Beautiful. Beautiful. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on today for this conversation. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Razi Graci, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves, in each other and in the world.
To find out more, please go to hompaninstitute.org.