I think it was just the piece that came along with the whole thing and knowing, oh, this is really good for me. And I kinda felt high, like, afterwards, and and not even afterwards, pretty early on, third day or something, I was like, I really needed this. This is really good. I feel really recharged. And I think there's some realization that I was pretty darn burnout, and Hoffman was the start of fixing that, healing that.
Hello, and welcome to Love's Everyday Radius, a podcast brought to you by the Hoffman Institute. My name is Sadie Hanna, and in this podcast, you'll hear real conversations and stories with graduates about their courageous journey inward and how their love and light are living in the world around them. Love's everyday radius. Thank you for being here and welcome. Hey, everyone, and welcome. I'm here with Diana Toman. Diana, why don't you begin by telling us a bit about who you are?
So I am a mother of two soon to be, an empty nester. I am an attorney. I am a daughter. I am a friend. And I would say I'm an intellect who has, in the past, primarily focused on her intellect and really hidden my heart from the world in many instances. So those who would be close to me knew my heart and those who saw me in more of a professional light did not necessarily always see that part of me, the softy side, because I thought I
was hiding it. I am someone who really cares about her community and her faith, feels like it's my responsibility to give back. It's very important to me. And also I like to have fun. And so I'm up for, you know, a good time and to try new things. I love to learn. I love to read, and I love to explore the world. I've been to 70 different countries and counting and always up for, you know, a last minute trip somewhere to take on a new adventure. Lovely.
I would love to dive right into that piece you mentioned about an intellect who hid my heart. Tell us a bit more about how you came to hide your heart and rely more on your intellect. I think this is a really common experience. You know, I was always known as doing very well in school, scholarships. I graduated undergrad in three years with a double major. So I was very go go go kind of person and very focused on achievement and climbing the corporate ladder and this great
sense of success. And, you know, when I went through the Hoffman process, I really recognized where that stemmed from and then how it infiltrated my life. You know, as a child, my parents dropped out of college to get married, much to the disappointment particularly of my dad's parents, and they were sure to tell me that regularly my entire life. And so there's a lot of expectations. And what I realized is it was my job to kind of validate
my parents' marriage. But I didn't realize that at the time, I was just trying to be successful. The meet the definition, I would say, of my grandparents' success of what they expected, particularly of my father. And so I knew before I became a lawyer, I knew I wanted to be a lawyer. I knew I wanted to work in a corporation and mix business and law. And that path really led me to very male dominated industries, manufacturing, and I climbed the ladder very, very fast.
Not that I didn't work, I worked seventy to eighty hours a week, but the expectation wasn't to bring my feminine side to the office, certainly as I was climbing the ladder. But I would say even when I hit the top rung or how I define the top rung at that time, And in doing so, showing your heart was weakness. It made me different. It made me not fit in. And so when I did show my heart, it was very behind the scenes. I had an employee once who worked for
me who lost her car. Her car was repossessed, and I had the money to help her. And I did, but I did it on the condition that she couldn't tell anyone that I helped her because I truly believed it would be used against me. And in that environment, I think it probably would have been. But I saw a person who was in need. My family gives as I said, I'm very community oriented, so my family gives to charitable
organizations that help someone. And here's a single mom with three kids who doesn't have a car to get to work or take her kids. So to me, it seemed like a no brainer, but that no brainer came in with not letting anyone else know that this is how I approached the world or how my, where my values were and the times those were exposed, it was to my detriment and I learned that and so I hit that. And so my family, my friends, people who are close to me knew that part of me.
But on the professional side, it was hidden. And so at some point, it kind of got infiltrated to starting to be more even on my personal side where I started, I think, to be a little bit more reserved and a little bit less me. And I think that's what brought me to Hoffman because I knew it wasn't right. So I'm hearing in what you're saying, this tension between where you can be open and caring and maybe a bit more soft. Maybe that's not the right word. It would probably be the right word in
the environments that I worked at. And I wanna be clear that not all manufacturing environments are that way, and there's amazing people that work in a manufacturing environments, but soft in the environments that I worked in would definitely be exploited. So I think you're describing something, you know, even all the way back to with your parents where there's an expectation of how you
should be in the world. And it sounds like from an early age, you felt the sense that you needed to be successful in some way in order to validate them and their choice. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. And my mom was a very big softy. My mom had the hugest heart, and she used to tell me that I had her heart too. I just like to hide
it, and I think that's very true. But even in a young age, not only did I have the drive to be successful, but my dad traveled a lot and my mom could be taken advantage of by numerous people. So even at eight, nine, 10 years old, I was my mom's protector and my siblings protector as well. And so that was kind of my dad tapped me on the shoulder because he felt like I was most like him to make sure that things went okay. And I think that was a high sense of responsibility.
He didn't intentionally share that with me, but he certainly did put that on my shoulders to be the responsible one and and the protector. So I hear us actually starting to look at little Diana, who she really is, and what are the parts of her that she learned to be based on what she needed to be in her family. And this is really the crux of the work we do at the process, separating out who am I versus who did I learn to be or who did I have to become in order to fit into my family system.
I know you've now done the process. Looking back on it, where do you see that blend of who you learned to be versus who you were? I think I had that internal drive. It's absolutely there. I don't think that that was something that was forced upon me. But what I do think is that it was recognized in me and pushed and pushed really hard. Schoolwork was very, very important, doing very well at school. B's were not acceptable because I had the capability, so I
was very intelligent as well. And so there was that expectation that I performed, was the shining star, a pluses were expected. So again, I think that was part of who I am. I think my intellect was there. I think that my drive was there, but it was certainly, it took a strength and made it a bit more excessive. I think I was a pretty serious kid in the grand scheme of things, but I at the same time always had close relationships. So, you know, I've always kind of had
a ripple effect of friendships. I'd have the people who are really, really close to me know most about me, although I generally seem to keep some to myself. So I don't let people fully in, at least I hadn't in the past. But I was invited all the birthday parties and all the activities, so I always felt very included and had a broad array of friends. So I think the social part and people enjoying my company was there. But at the same time, there was a very serious side
that could read books. So it's just kind of a mix, I guess. The other thing I know about you is you really do have the biggest heart. How did you learn to harden that in order to achieve professionally? I'm a very observant person. And so I pay attention to interactions and what it takes to be successful. I'm also very, very goal oriented. So it's like, okay, here's the plan. How do I achieve that?
Watching people who expose their hearts, it's accepted, it's certainly in the communities that I've worked in to give to nonprofits and be engaged. But that deep connection, most people don't show that. Right? It's more more about writing a check or being on the board. I also had, I guess, the first female boss that I had, I was a corporate counsel and she was the associate general counsel. She was tough and she was really respected and maybe a little
socially awkward in the context. But what I know now is I have gone through Hoffman and also reflected on that. I think she had a really huge heart, but I was too young to really appreciate why she behaved the way she behaved. But I tried to emulate that in many ways of going okay, if I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep up and I'm gonna achieve my goals, then I can't be overly feminine. I'm sure I can wear a dress, but at the same time, I can't be soft or share my heart.
That's what it's gonna take to get to the c suite. And that was my goal, and I achieved it twice. And I feel really proud about that, But it came at a cost. As you're describing having an open heart, but hiding it. I'm wondering what other words we can use to fill in and describe open heart because even that can have different meanings. So what did you really have to turn down the volume on in order to present in the way you thought you should or needed to,
to be successful? I just wanna go a little deeper with that question. I would say certainly my empathy as the head lawyer in various different roles. I was responsible for when safety incidences happened, protecting the company. When employees were terminated, protecting the company. First and foremost, even if I didn't agree with the terminations, mass layoffs, all of those things, they really impacted me I felt for those people, and I had
compassion for them. But the role I had to play was to be very protective of the company. And so how to interact with them when you're even negotiate, for example, negotiating a severance or working with a family when someone has been deceased. That didn't mean I wasn't friendly and respectful or warm. But at the same time, my ultimate responsibility was to protect the company. Not every company wants to do what's the
right thing to do. They want to do what they have to do, and they wanna minimize their liability. And so in doing that, I had to play a role. So there were many enough employees that I was tough in negotiating maybe their severance as to what the company wanted to pay or what have you, whether or not it was my option. It was my job to make it happen.
But then being known to be the person behind the scenes that reached out to that person after everything was done, after I did my job and the company was protected, how can I help you? Can I be a reference for you? Do you need somebody to talk to? Those kinds of things, but also every time asking, please don't share that I'm doing this. It's important to me. I value, I care about you, but my job prevents me or the environment that I worked in prevented me from being that
person. So often there was a cutoff. If you terminated somebody, they were like dead to the company, at least the companies that I worked for. And that's not true everywhere, but some of the old school traditional manufacturing companies. Absolutely. And I just felt like there was a different way to handle it. And so the one time that I tried to handle something similar with that employee who worked for me, I was told that I was too soft and
nobody terminates people this way. And I literally helped the person out with a performance improvement plan and helped them get a job at the same time. So in my mind, I actually helped the company because we didn't have to pay a termination and I helped set that person up for a job that was much better suited for them. So I felt really good about that, but it was something that impacted me that I wasn't hard enough as a leader or I should
have just terminated the person. While in my mind, I was gonna pay that sixty day period anyway, and severance would have paid a lot more actually. Why not try and help the person find the best place for them, even if it
wasn't on my team? And so those are kind of some examples of times where I learned, okay, you gotta do it behind the scenes if you're gonna do those things, Especially as a woman in a very male dominated industry, I was the only female executive often in my career or or the most senior. It was viewed as a weakness.
You are describing something that we often refer to as a push pull In a situation where you've learned a certain set of strategies, patterns from one parent and almost like an opposing from the other parent, you can feel this inner conflict between those two. Take us to the point that you decided to come to the process. What happened that brought you first day into that room? How did you make that decision? So not quite a year before I quit my job, I was a fortune
five hundred chief legal officer. So the top rung of what I aspire to be professionally, I was having a mini personal crisis with my husband and my children. I was commuting between Kansas City and Pittsburgh, which is not a direct flight in the middle of COVID. And it really had its toll on my family, and particularly on my husband's health. So I made that decision.
It shocked even some of my closest friends because it was maybe a decision that was coming, but I had a light bulb moment and knew that it needed to happen. And so in that eight months or so between when that happened and when I joined Hoffman, I was looking for opportunities to balance my life for phase two, and really taking a step back and setting, okay, well, you achieved your goal, And did it bring you happiness or did it almost cost you everything that's so important in your life?
And my dear friend, Doctor. Michelle Robin, who's based in Kansas City, is a huge proponent of Hoffman. I think she did it over twenty five years ago, and I call her my big sis. And she's guided me through this really personal self healing, personal growth journey and for the last several years. And she's like, it's time, Diana, you need to do Hoffman, you need to do Hoffman. And she also recommended that my husband do it too. And we had planned for my husband to do it first and then for
me to do it. But things happen. And he ended up doing it several months after I did it. But it was my birthday present to me. So I did it the August and really came in pretty open for whatever was going to be. I really wanted a self discovery moment of saying, okay, you did everything you set out to be. Is it that what you wanna still be doing, or do you wanna do something different?
And who do you wanna be? Like, make sure, like, for the next half of your life, so I was in my early forties, make sure that this is who you wanna be. You know, obviously, Sadie, you're my coach, which was perfect for me, and it was an amazing experience. And I definitely feel like I got everything out of it that I wanted to get out of it, plus more than I even expected. But it was time and it came at
the right time in my life. Michelle had recommended it to me a couple years before and I was like, I don't know if I can give up my phone. I don't know if I can I have the time to do that? I don't know. That's really where I wanna focus. In fact, instead of going to the Hoffman process two years prior when I had some time off, I just traveled and almost just played. I just kind of played for six months. And that was probably exactly what I
needed to do at the time. And then Hoffman came when I was in the self reflecting room. Tell us something that you discovered maybe that surprised you that opened your heart that brought you to a place of insight or inspiration. I definitely think the heart part was a big light bulb moment for me. I think, as you may recall, I kind of came up with this phrase that I was gonna be a heart driven badass because I think I'd been so focused on
being a badass. And I don't think I realized that I lost my heart along the way because I still cared about people and I still was very involved in my community and I love my children. But I did not realize how much I was checking out of my own life and not really enjoying it. So I'd say that was a pretty big light bulb moment. I knew I wasn't super happy, but I wasn't unhappy.
And really, I kinda signed up because Michelle encouraged it and I wanted my husband to go because I thought he needed it more than he. And so I wasn't gonna force him into or force force is the wrong word. Encourage him to do something that I wasn't willing to do myself, and so we could have a shared language. But I realized how much I was going through the motions of my life. I wouldn't have told you that would have been the case prior.
Can you actually tell me a story where you realized I need this? I just had such peace while I was at the process. You know, lawyers are skeptical people, and I was skeptical person. But there was nothing we did. I just went in within this is my choice, and I wanna explore this, and I wanna try this. And so even if I was like, I don't know about all that, I told myself, no. We're gonna try it.
And so I think it was just the piece that came along with the whole thing and knowing, oh, this is really good for me. And I kinda felt high, like, afterwards and and not even afterwards, pretty early on third day or something. I was like, I really needed this. This is really good. I feel really recharged. And I think there's some realization that I was pretty darn burnout. And Hoffman was the start of fixing that healing that. And so it was clear to me I needed it.
It was also clear to me that I needed to show up differently for my children, and that I was sharing patterns that I had been taught. I knew I needed it for me, but when I had some light bulb moments about my children and the value that it was going to be for them, just how I was gonna show up differently for them, then I knew I really needed to. And I'll just share this one thing. The person who sat next to me was 21. Her dad and step mom had done the the
process. You know, my kids were a few years younger than her, but seeing kind of what the experience was for her parents and then how it was impacting her. And we did many of the activities together. And I just loved that experience because engaging with her helped me go, okay, this is how I'm gonna engage differently with my children. And this is how I can show up differently.
At a minimum, it was good for me, but it was also really good for me as a parent, and that happened day three, four, probably. I just wanna pause and go back to I felt high. If you were to attach an emotion word to that, what would it be? And what do you think was the source of it? Excited, I would say, because I remember that I really like myself and that I'm a fun person, and I can be a fun person. And then I have more to give than my achievements.
I like myself for things that aren't my achievements where I think that that was certainly a big focus of how I gathered self love was through my achievements. And so going, oh, I really liked my heart. I really, I really liked my personality. I really like how I care about people and how I can be silly and playful. And some of those things that I had probably buried and only showed themselves every once in a while, it felt like I was getting rid of some shackles that I maybe put on myself
or allowed others. So free. Felt free. Free. Excited. It's interesting because sometimes people think about healing work as being difficult and painful. And it's certainly not easy, and it can be painful, but you're describing experience of excitement and rediscovery of self love. Tell me more about that. Absolutely. So I'm a lifelong learner, so I'm always like, how can I get better? How can I be the best version of myself? So I've done a lot of work, if
you will, on myself. But what Hoffman did for me, I knew I was perfectionist. I think I was probably a bit of a workaholic. I knew I lacked self compassion. I have lots of compassion for other people, but for me, like a typo is, you know, very stressful. And so I knew all of those things, but I don't think I ever figured out a path despite all the coaching or guidance for mentoring, etcetera, until Hoffman. Because Hoffman, I understood the root cause of my pattern.
And by understanding the root cause, then when that creeped in, when I was getting ready to exhibit my pattern, I could stop myself. I could redirect. I could exercise self compassion when something wasn't perfect and be like, it's it's good enough, like good enough is good. It's like anything I would do in my regular professional life of you can't solve a problem if you don't know
the root cause. And so being able to get to the root cause was just like this huge weight off of me because it was almost like a problem that I was never able to solve, but didn't necessarily fully realize that it was a problem at the same time. Right? Like knew that my perfectionism was weakness, but at the same time, it got me
to where I was. I wouldn't have been an an executive officer of a public company in my thirties Had I not been that perfectionist, had I not been that workaholic, but at the same time, is that how I wanted to live my life and understanding to get that balance? And so I just felt that balance, I guess. How do you see that living in your life now? So when my inner mean girl comes out, I would say I stopped her really quickly. I stopped her really quickly. Yeah, that was
disappointing. I wish yes. I agree. We should have done better, but we didn't. And so here's where we're at. But we did all these other things. And so I would say first and foremost, inner mean girl, there's a protector that comes in and stops her, and she doesn't have time to have the impact on me. So that's the personal side of things. On the parenting side, I have really focused with both of my children on
that achievement. They're both very, very smart, fun human beings, and I am truly honored to be their parent. But I taught them achievement equals self love. I taught them that achievement might equal my love, and that certainly was not my intention or feeling, but being able to get in front of that. And when I see my kids start to spiral in that achievement area, I'm on it. It's so counterintuitive for me, but I'm like, that's okay. You can skip that day.
Like, I'm much more chill on things because I'm trying to put in some protection so that they don't go down there, but at the same time, making sure that they have expectations of themselves. So that's also about, like, I don't care what you wanna do with your life, but I want you to be happy with your choices. So my son, for example, wanted to be a lawyer and follow in his mom's footsteps, and he had this realization recently
that he wanted to be a teacher. And I think he had a lot of shame associated with that because he's brilliant. But I was able to say, I think being a teacher is awesome, and I think you'll be a phenomenal teacher and the excitement the genuine excitement versus the expectation of what maybe I would have responded earlier. You'll be a good lawyer. You'll be a great lawyer. I think that is really manifested. And I also would say I'm pretty mindful
now. Not always. I know I slipped just as we all do with our phones or what have you, but I catch myself, but also those around me. Now that my husband has gone through Hoffman too, he helps catch me in a soft way versus a nagging way or a way that elicit shame. It's just like, hey. I don't know. Are are you are you available now to talk when maybe we were talking and I checked out? He brings me back in in a way that's loving, and I accept it in a loving way because I know that's
my better. And I know I can just kinda check out. I think I'm being me. I think I'm living authentically me. I'm doing things that I want to do. I've changed my career in a way that feels great. I'm working with people that I truly enjoy and love and feel like I'm doing good things. I say no to things that I don't wanna do even if I think that they would be good for me professionally if I or or even personally, I don't have the energy, so I'm protecting that a bit more, and really listening to
my body. I think being more in tune with my body and what it needs and its responses, physical responses to things has been such a great guidepost. I think I ignored it in the past, and Hoffman really helped me be more in tune with my body's responses that I may have played off or ignored in the past. Yes. What I really hear is an integration of the open heart and the protector. You had to open your heart in order to come in and protect yourself in that moment.
It's just this beautiful blend of there's more than just tough protector. And yet you haven't lost it because you do have the ability now to continue on and be that open hearted badass. Right? Heart driven badass. That's right. Yes. So if you could just say one more thing about your post process integration, that word integration is coming up. How have you seen your experience of self love showing up in a in a way that you're learning from that post process? I feel like so much of the process
is integrated into my life. But after my husband did the process, probably six or nine months later, we did a couple's intensive. And it was helpful at the time, but I feel like we had to digest it. Just like Hoffman, I feel like you have all these lessons that come and you're really excited and then you kinda pull off of the some of the tools. But then over time, you like, you're like, that is totally a Hoffman right there, even if you're not thinking about it. And so
it really just permeates who you are. And for us, particularly in our relationship, what I have observed is we use many of our Hoffman tools and in engaging with each other. And so we were pretty close to to the edge of maybe not making it through this phase of life together, and we have found this beautiful way to reenergize our partnership. And when either one of us goes into our patterns rather than taking it personally. It's a pause, and it's like, babe,
this is what I heard. Was that your intention? Or, hey, I'm getting really anxious here. I'm this is how I'm feeling. I need a pause. Can we talk about it in a little while? And those are just very small examples of the things that we're doing. But what it has happened is not only has Hoffman enabled me to protect my inner peace and allow my heart to shine at the same time, It's also permeated our relationship and then
furthermore with our children. So they're seeing us go from a really not good place to working to crawl together out of that. And then this new healthier way that we interact with each other, because we're still who we are. Right? We still have our patterns. We still have bad days. We still have crankiness. All of those things, they're they how often does it make them disappear? And it's still a journey and something you still have to work at and really commit to.
But they see how we respond differently and how we redirect each other and support each other in that. And so I just feel like that's created a bigger piece for our entire family and our home. And I think doing that together is probably the thing that I'm most proud of and feel in our lives. Yeah, most often. This is wonderful. Thank you. Are there any last things, or is there anything that you wanted to say that we haven't covered? I guess just thank you. Thank you to
the Hoffman process. Thank you to Michelle for encouraging me and being my big sis through this journey. And thank you to you, Sadie, for everything that you have done, our friendship and helping me be the best version of me. I could not have done it without you, and I really appreciate it. And I appreciate this opportunity to share my journey with others, and hopefully there are other, badasses out there that wanna become heart heart driven badasses.
Thank you so much, Diana Toman. Heart driven bad ass integration between two total different sides of self into this beautiful place, strong, present, open, and resilient. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Razzi Grassi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access
to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves, in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to hompaninstitute.org.