The great thing about Hoffman is spiritual experience is experienceable. It's not something to believe in. We don't have any at Hoffman, any secret handshake or any of these other things that we want people to believe in. We want them not to believe in anything. We want them only to adhere to their own direct experience and honor that and live it. Welcome, everybody. My name is Drew Horning, and this podcast is called Love's Everyday Radius.
It's brought to you by the Hoffman Institute and its stories and anecdotes and people we interview about their life post process and how it lives in the world radiating love. Everybody, welcome to the Hoffman podcast, Loves Everyday Radius. My name is Drew Horning. Glad you are here. Two special people. Raz and Marissa Ingrassi are with me today. Raz is a UC Berkeley graduate. He's been an executive consultant and facilitator within the human potential movement since 1972.
He's a Hoffman teacher, and he founded the Hoffman Institute Foundation in 1998. Marissa Ingresi is Raza's daughter, and she has been a Hoffman teacher for the last ten years. She received her coaching training through the ICF approved Academy of Leadership Coaching and NLP. Welcome, everybody. Thank you. Thanks for having us, Drew. Thanks, Drew. We're excited to be here with you. Super excited for this conversation. You are both Hoffman teachers.
How did that come about? Well, I think it came about naturally because, you know, I did the process back in 1989. At that time, my Marissa was about six, and I did the process. My main motivation was I wanted to be a better dad. I could hear things coming out of my mouth that I hadn't heard since I was a little kid, and I didn't like it then. And I heard about the process. I knew Bob Hoffman pretty well, actually.
So I did the process for that. So you could say that Marissa motivated me to some degree to do the process. And so she's she's always been in that zone for me. Then she follows her own path. And, of course, has her dad, I was supporting her. And then her explorations and really devotion to theater and the performing arts ultimately kind of led back to Hoffman. And in a way that's also it was also true for me because I had studied theater and that led as part of my interest in transformation.
I was studying theater to understand why humans behave the way they do. And I came to a deeper exploration of Greek theater and tragic theater, and that was, it seemed to me at least, the perfect preparation for working with Hoffman as well as my studies in other spiritual modalities such as Buddhism and Hindu traditions and so forth. Then Marissa had her own path, and she was following theater too. Yeah, Marissa. Is that new information about
your dad? And did you see those parallel paths from exploring theater to Hoffman teacher? Yeah. Well, it's not new information. I was following my own path of acting and performing arts. And at the time when I was pursuing that, I wasn't making the same connections that I would make today. However, I I knew that my dad also did that when he was in college as well. And so whereas I was interested in transformation and psychology and spirituality and why people behave
the way they do. And I started studying psychology in college, but soon discovered that they were studying rats, and they weren't really studying human behavior. And then one thing and another, I was very interested in Greek theater and Greek, mythology, and that kind of led me into the drama department. So I began my exploration of human behavior through the lens of theater.
So whereas I was going into theater as a laboratory for studying human behavior, Marissa was really into theater as an actress, as a performer, and only later used that platform to enter into transformation. I think it's a great platform because you learn all kinds of things in performing and out of vocal motions and all kinds of things about what motivates human beings. Marissa, do you see that connection as theater is a gateway to understanding humans?
Oh, for sure. And I've known that about myself for a long time and known that what the same similar things that motivated me toward theater were the same things that motivated me toward this work. I've also always been interested in understanding why people do the things they do and
knowing more about the human condition. And as my dad was just saying, for me, it was in the form of embodiment of characters and really getting inside another person's lived experience and what life might be like for them. And little did I know that that is also a huge component of the process and, you know, being able to to empathize or or understand what someone might
be going through. But also in the work that we teach at the process, it's so much about embodiment of really understanding what it is, how our patterns feel inside our bodies, what it feels like when we are procrastinating or withdrawing or just so incredibly triggered, right, all of that we experience those emotions, sensations
within our bodies. And then we also experience the totality of our, what we call it the process, our spiritual selves, that part of us that has no patterns that is able to be present whole, all of the things that you want. And so in hindsight, I see now how that was a preparation for this, but didn't know it at the time. Yeah. That's
that's really cool. The the actor who can embody the role in such a visceral way is a better performer, the human being who can embody their integrated quadrinity, their spirit in a more profound way is a happier, healthier, right road human. Well, I've observed that Marissa just has
tremendous powers of compassion. I think it I learned from listening to you now, Marissa, how stepping into a character, if you will, the method acting, having to be that character, you know, that requires a strong initiative on the side of the actor to want to step into a different persona and live it and know what it's like to be that person.
I think that gives you a real leg up in your teaching because you have the power to step into another person's experience and know what it's like for them, if you will, from the inside. I mean, without giving up your own beingness, you can, really empathize with another. I think that's terribly important. But also in theater, you know, there's always this fact that we're watching a story unfold.
And a story that's unfolding on the stage is about people who don't know why they're why they're behaving and living the way they are. In terms of tragedy or comedy, there's always some breakdown and then an enlightenment and awareness, a new awareness. And that new awareness, unwittingly, especially in tragedy, has a spiritual component to it where the actor, the protagonist runs into something much greater than himself or herself and much more powerful than they ever imagined existed.
And that takes them down. They have to reformulate their life. What you were just describing in what a character goes through is also, you know, Joseph Campbell's hero's journey. It's a really great descriptor for what people go through in the week of the process. As you were saying, facing something that comes up as an obstacle in one's path and then having the stroke of insight of realization that helps the protagonist.
That is really the way that I look at the process is that people are on their own hero's journey saving themselves, and that what they come up against is their own traumas and pain and unlooked at material. That it is in facing that with eyes open and doing the work of the process that is the ability to come to the other side and really have the experience and feeling that they did that work for themselves and that no one did it to them or for them. And that was certainly my experience when
I did the process. Yeah. I didn't know what to expect. I knew that you and mom were very involved, but you had also done a really great job of you never I didn't know anything that was going to happen in the process. I was completely surprised every step of the way and delighted. And I remember on Thursday having this sense and this feeling, and I and I had had feelings about this throughout the week of just in total awe that this is what you guys do.
This was what you've been doing my my, you know, the majority of my childhood that this was your work. And so it was it was amazing for me because the process was so impactful for me. But just this sense of pride is the word that comes to my mind. I just felt so proud of you. You know, and I was young at the time when I did. I was 23. When I did the process, Had no idea what it was really at
all. Yes. Especially when you are dealing with the negative love patterns that you got from us, and at the same time, being being proud of your parents, you know, while you're in there bashing them. You have such a unique experience compared to any other student who's ever gone through the process in the sense that
this is where they went to work. This is what they were doing, and the discovery of both what was happening inside of you in your journey and the discovery of the intimate nature of what they had helped create and shepherd into the world was the Hoffman process that you were now a part of and experiencing so intensely during your week. Wow, Marissa. What a parallel experience. How was that for you, Marissa, to do both at the same time?
It was great. I mean, when I did the homework and I had had a call or a connection with my teacher a little bit before I got there. I remember my mom in particular, and, dad, you may have done this as well, but just encouraged me to go for it. That there wasn't anything, you know, did not worry about hurting them or hurting their feelings that they're, you know, that this wasn't about them, but it was about me and me on my path of discovery.
And so that was a really great permission, so I didn't feel guilty or anything like that. I remember wanting to do everything that, you know, that was set out in the course. I remember that being my intention, and I did.
And I experienced the power of the process and the power of the transformation that comes from the process, I think because I let myself go in a certain way and, not be self conscious or worried about what other people would think because they were my parents or something like that. You know, it wasn't until later in the week that the pride came. It was but it was amazing. Bob Hoffman had a great affinity for you and Mike, your brother. So, Marissa, what what impressions do you have of Bob?
I remember him as fun in a certain way that he liked to laugh a lot. You know, of course, I I think he died when I was about 14. So I didn't have an adult relationship with him, but I remembered a kindness to him. I just remember a sense of you feeling good about the work you were doing and that he was a part of that. Now, I'm sure that he related to me in a different way than he related to other adults. So my memory of him is being a kid, but that's, yeah, that's what I remember.
You mentioned Bob's sense of humor, and it reminds me of the fact that you and I share a sense of humor. We are often laughing together. We both have a mischievous sense of humor, and Bob did too. I think that was one of the things that drew us together. Liza also, you know, as your mom and your wife and as my boss, she loves to laugh, loves to laugh, and is finding humor in everything.
When you see someone who loves to get tickled by all these funny, mischievous things, It's like you get a contact tie. Liza's a pleasure to work around because she loves to find humor and everything. Yes. She does. Yeah. She does. That's right. And, I think that rubs off on you a lot, Marissa. I think for the perspective of time, I can really see the influences that mom and I have had on you and that our partnership has had on you.
There's a really big way in which you have on your own, not through any of work of us trying to push you. You have stepped up into a leadership role in this work and have made it your own. So it's as if it's your own nature and that it fit you so to speak like a glove and it's been fun for us to see how it's become a life path for you, a path of service and contribution as well. Yes. Absolutely. The way that I came back to it, I think, is the only way that it
could have ever happened. I felt so drawn to totally explore this other area, which at the time was acting. You were supportive of that. That when my journey with all of that brought me back to first, you know, going through coaching certification, and so not even yet considering that I would teach the process, to then really feeling called to teach the process that it felt and in a certain way, it was totally my idea.
And it wouldn't have worked in the same way if I had felt pressure to come into the family business or, you know, it just felt like exactly what I was supposed to do next. So I'm really grateful for that. I know that speaking for myself and mom, we felt that way too, that it was a beautiful surprise to us. Authentic you were well, you're authentic and wholehearted in everything you do. You don't you don't do things that you're not wholehearted about.
And so it was a delight to us to see that the Hopkin work really rang true for you and that you stepped into it, and it brought a lot of things, I think, different parts of your life into focus. Dad, I have a question that I think might be really interesting about a gift that you gave me just a couple of months ago, and it's sitting here on my desk. I'm looking at it as I am sitting here, speaking with you and Drew. It's a Buddha that is inside
of Lucite. And the Buddha is suspended inside, like, almost looks like it's floating. And it must have been a laser or something that that made it because there's it's created by points. So the Buddha is not like lines drawn. It's just all kinds of points that come together. I acquired that in a kind of a mystical spiritual way because when I was in the process, I had a number of spiritual revelations. And one of them was, you know, with my eyes closed, there was
just this plane of light. It was dark and then in the middle there was just light. And then very slowly, it started to open up as points of light. It was opening and then at a certain point, I could see that it was the Buddha sitting up. And as he sat up, there he was. But it was all points of light. It was a Buddha as light as a light being, and there's a beautiful experience I had in my process. And then many years later, a great friend of mine named, Jochen Windhausen.
Jochen was the founder of the Hoffman process in Germany, and he loved Bob Hoffman with all his heart. I would say Bob was like a surrogate father to him. In all the meetings of the international, Yokhen always represented how much we love Bob, how much we owe to Bob, and, he was very close to Bob. He's a very sweet man. One day, we were in Italy. We were having an international conference.
The conference center was on the coast of the Mediterranean, and I just come back from walking on the beach. And Yolkin waved at me and motioned me to come over, and he said he had a gift for me. And he gave me that, which was from his collection, his treasure. He was a Buddhist practitioner.
Then I had it, and it was very special that he he gave it to me because I had been holding the Hoffman Institute International together as the chairman since Bob's passing for many years, and he wanted to acknowledge what I had done. My memory when you told me this story before was that you hadn't told anyone else that that was how you experienced that visualization. So Yokin gave this to you without knowing that you had had that visualization in your process.
Right. And so it came to me, him honoring me, leading the way as the chairman for many years of keeping the Hoffman process solid and high integrity and high quality throughout the world. I experienced it as a gift from Bob and a spiritual dimension to it. It was profound for me and had it for many, many years. I wanted you to have it because there's a lineage in which you stand. And in this lineage, there's a spiritual transmission.
I wanted you to have this as a reminder of that lineage and that sourcefulness as a way of being in the world. So very much what the process is about is connecting with our spiritual self and then acting from that ground of being in the world. Our model is be, do, have. You're being you're being in your spiritual self. You're doing things are there that flow naturally from that dimension of beingness. And so you're acting and doing things in the world, and then what you have are results
that are aligned with your spiritual being. And that feeds back into your spiritual being, and it's the cycle for manifesting spirituality in the world. It's this cycle for bringing peace on earth and love into the foreground of all human relations. I witnessed your tremendous growth, Marissa, and your spiritual composure and presence, and I wanted you to have that as a gift in that lineage.
I wanna bring up one other point, which is that, dad, you had given this to a friend who's also very strongly involved in Hoffman as a Giles who was the first chairman of the board. Yeah? Yeah. Well, Giles Bateman was the first chairman of the board of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. So we created the foundation back. We were creating it in '97, and we launched it in '98. And at some point, you gave this to him because of the time that
he was going through in his life? What happened was he was chairman and on the board for a total of about ten years. And then his wife died, who we loved very, very much. I was her teacher to give him some consolation. I wanted him to have this. So that was about twelve or fifteen years ago that I gave that to him. And unbeknownst to you, he brought it with him to our conference that we just had, you know, just a few months ago in October. And he gave it to you at that conference.
Yeah. He just said he gave it to me, and he said, I want you to have this. He said, it's helped me for many years, and it's been with me, and I now want to return it. So it's kind of a traveling gift. Yeah. And it was there at that conference that you gave it to me the evening after that conference ended. Yeah. When I received it back, I thought, how amazing this has come back to me. And then I was inquiring, why? And a message I got from my spiritual self was pass it on to Marissa.
So I did for all the reasons I just explained. And we can put a photo of it in the show notes. It's beautiful. As you know, Drew, being a Hoffman teacher is a spiritual path. Being so involved with Hoffman as Liza is as the as the leader, even though Liza is not a teacher, she could've and she wanted to be a teacher.
I mean, she is a teacher. She's a she teaches us how to do the business in alignment with the spiritual dimension so that we don't step out of line and she models for us that it's possible to do business from a spiritual perspective and have things turn out. So she's she's a teacher of all of us, but she's not formally a Hoffman teacher, and yet in many ways, she understands the process as deeply as anyone.
In my process, at the very end of the week, she said some student asked a question about going forward and stepping into the unknown. And she calmly spoke to the class and finished her thoughts by saying, this will continue to grow inside you. And that idea of this experience that I just had growing inside me has never left me, has always been true.
And I just think about her words, not as a teacher, and yet she offered that wisdom that I still keep in my heart of the growth of the process emerging more powerfully on the inside. So, Marissa, I I've seen that with you as well where you're where you became a really good teacher, supervising teacher, then you became a a manager of the teachers and have other roles in the institute.
You became a a really senior supervising teacher, and now you're also working more fully in the organization itself. Russ, what's that like to know that the lineage is being received and embraced, and Marissa is really taking on this next generation of Hoffman leaders and teachers, and she's receiving the pass of generational leadership. It's deeply gratifying, and it's validating of the idea that there is a lineage.
There's a spiritual lineage here. And that, you know, it was passed on to me and Liza from Bob in a formal sense and informally as well. Liza and I worked closely with Bob for almost nine years, eight and a half years, but I knew him from 1974. We became friends in '74, and I didn't do the process then as it was a thirteen week program. But I liked what it produced and what its goal was. Then we remat in 1988, and something just clicked. I was ready, and he was ready to pass it on. I was
ready to receive it. I had expanded my own knowledge, been through my own trials and tribulations, and this was the next step for me and for him. And I felt it too that I was ready to carry it forward. So there's this old spiritual adage that when the student is ready the teacher will appear. I think also when the teacher is ready, the students appear. I could not have arranged for Marissa to be in the state of readiness and beingness and excellence that she is.
And so it is very validating because Marissa knows me probably in many ways better than anyone. Sometimes she knows that I can be headstrong, and she'll go toe to toe to toe with me. I think she always wins. I come around to sing it her way. So I have challenged her, and she has challenged me, and I have found her to be a very senior thinker. She never gives in because I'm her father. She's committed to the truth, always committed to truth. I admire that about her, about you, Marissa.
Well, I learned about truth from you about what's real. Yep. Truth has become besmirched because oh, that's true for you, but that's not true for me. And truth is being seen as relative. One of my old teachers used to say, the truth believed is a lie. And what he meant by that is that the truth is experiential. And when you experience it, it's undeniable. It is so present. It's so clear and true. If you turn it into a belief system, what you believe is not the same as what you experience.
And so when you turn truth into a belief, it's not true anymore. And so the truth believed is a lie. That's really great. The truth believed is a lie. Truth is not a belief system. If you turn it into a belief system, it is no longer true. Which is the great thing about Hoffman. You know, spiritual experience is is experience. It's experienceable. It's not something to believe in. We don't have any at Hoffman, any secret handshake or any of these, other things that we want people to believe in.
We want them not to believe in anything. We want them only to adhere to their own direct experience and honor that and live it. I find that to be the way you live, Marissa. So I admire that in you and I. This goes back to how does it feel to to have you as a lineage holder of Hoffman. Of course, every teacher drew your lineage holder. One of the great powers of Hoffman is that it's not a belief system. So as a teacher, as a remarkable teacher, you drew are also a lineage holder of the process.
And then there's the bigger game of speaking about the process, which you're doing now, spreading the word through these podcasts and many other things you do. There's this extra dimension that I have with Humorous are having I still remember the moment you were born. And that was remarkable experience for me because I held you. And in the moment of holding you, something just went like zonk landed on me. It really shook me, and I knew it. And I felt that bonded to you in that moment.
I think when I did the Hoffman process and learning more about this parent child bond, I will always relate it back to that moment when that bond landed on me like a ton of bricks. Maybe that was a moment of recognition for me too that you and I that there was something amazing here. Marissa, do you remember doing quad checks when you were little? How did the content of the process and the idea that it was such a cellular journey show up in your childhood? Razz, how did it change your parenting?
It showed up in my childhood in the exact way that he's describing, which is that not that there's anything wrong. I think it's great people do quad checks with their kids. He they happen to not do that, but it was in the way that both of my parents moved through the world and were in their own capital t truth or the way that they move through the world with integrity.
Well, I'll tell you the main thing that happened for me in my change in parenting was that I realized in the process that I had been parenting our children from the perspective of trying to get them to be little adults and to behave like adults. After that, I figuratively and literally got down on the floor and played with them and embraced deeply the adage of Maria Montessori, which is follow the child.
And so from that point on, we just looked over to see what was interesting, what did they want to do, and then supported them in their own exploration of what they wanted to do. I could say without reservation, Marissa was six, Mike was four when I did the process, knowing the kind of father I was programmed to be versus the father I aspired after the process to live. That I would say, Marissa, that your destiny was changed because I did the often process.
Maybe so. Yeah. I remember spirituality always being very important to you, not from a place where you were telling us to be a certain way or practice a certain thing, but because I experienced you as having a spiritual connection, you would meditate, you would burn incense in our home. I remember when I was kinda little, it was sorta weird because other people's parents didn't do that. But there was also this sense of you being really connected to something that was important, and I remember
asking you questions about it. It was some of my favorite times just asking you questions about how life works or what happens next, or just hearing about your experiences in your life before I was born. I would say that that was also true of you and existed within you before you did the process. Oh, absolutely. I traveled throughout India for years. In the seventies, I was over to India probably 10 times, and I had a guru and met with many many other gurus, studied with them.
Yeah. I embraced a lot of very in-depth spirituality in India and Tibet. All of it was consistent with what we teach in the process, by the way. First off, the be, do, have, I we already talked about. But I think about the Buddha after his great awakening, he figured out nothing special about me. If I can have this experience, this awakening, everyone else can too. And so he set himself about trying to teach it. The first the four noble truths is life is suffering.
Until you get that, you cannot proceed. That's what, you know, what we do in Hoffman. You start with a 45 page homework assignment, which creates a map of your personal suffering. And so we start with your suffering. In my study of theater, I came to study Greek theater, which is about tragedy. And that is the theater of the West is the tragic theater.
And then end of Shakespeare, That too is always about the hero who was looked up to by everyone and a wonderful perfect person, but who falls is destroyed through no fault of his own. And in that fall, because the audience I use that word audience a little advisedly because nobody came to the Greek theater to be entertained. They came to have a spiritual experience. And in that fall, it was a theatrical device for having people accede to the higher spiritual reality.
And the higher spiritual reality was embodied in the Greek god, Dionysus. Dionysus is usually seen as the destroyer god, and he's destroying things that don't hold spirituality anymore. This is the same thing as also in Buddhism. There's Brahma, the creator, Vishnu, the sustainer, and Shiva, the destroyer. And the branch of Hinduism that I became very involved in was Shiva, the destroyer. And the destroyer is destroying all forms that we're attached to.
Negative love patterns. We love these things. We're attached to them, but they don't hold spirituality anymore. They're not conducting true spiritual experience. And so, like, as if with a sword, they're cut away, and we experience being wounded as we lose these attachments. So this tradition of Hoffman work is consistent with the other great spiritual traditions and, of course, Christianity also. Christ on the cross and the metaphor of Christianity is God embodied.
Bob Hoffman's work was not designed to do that by him like a conscious design or like a conscious design, let's do what Joseph Campbell says. It came authentically through him, and it exists in our own cultural milieu. We so we don't have to leave our culture, go to India, go to the Tibetan way. We can have this authentic tradition. All of my previous studies in spirituality were validated by what Hoffman was teaching.
And of course, over the last thirty five years, we've helped it evolve in the right direction with brilliant people like Drew Horning. Marissa, what's it like to hear your dad make those connections between his past and the travels he did and the traditions he learned, and that it all actually relates very much to the work we're doing at Hoffman and what Bob created early on.
To me, what I hear and what I've heard before when he shared that with me is, the recognition of, you know, what we've been calling capital t truth that to be able to recognize all the many different forms that that truth can take, experiential forms for people. But there are certain elements that have to be necessary or that are just true and that the process contained those. Your spiritual self is resonating in harmony with the universe.
Once your spiritual self steps forward, the entire universe is a spiritual experience. You know, it's like in a Zen rock garden. The rocks are spiritual. Everything is spiritual. You know, it's a funny thing like as a teacher you can both relate to this on the first day of the process. We don't wonder how it's gonna turn out or if it's gonna turn out. No. We know already what's gonna happen.
We already know what the last day is gonna be and that people are gonna be transformed, utterly transformed. And that's because we know something about them that they don't know, which is that it's about their inner perfection, their spiritual dimension. And once that is revealed and embraced and integrated, life is, as you said, Drew, forever different. That's beautiful. Whereas you've always had the capacity to take what we do at Hoffman and bring it to another dimension.
Making these connections, finding these ideas to be transcendent and forever a part of so many other things as well. And we are now at the point where Liza and I have been involved for thirty five years. We're moving into our retirement years. And so this tradition, this lineage lives in people like you, Drew and Marissa, and others largely in the form of the teachers, but also then how do you translate that into the organization.
You know, we've gone through one transmission from Hoffman to us, and so we know we've done it once successfully, and I think we're doing it a second time successfully. You know, there's no road map for how you do this. We're inventing it. We love inventing it. I imagine it's not easy, Riaz, to take this thing that's so beloved to you and Liza over these past decades, and then to to to slowly let it go and trust it in the hands of the next generation?
Well, it's an interesting thing because once people commit, learn how to operate from spirit and commit to operating that way, they can be trusted. You know, as a nonprofit, we do fundraising for funding our scholarships and teacher training and improving our sites and owning sites where we can conduct the process. And the fundraising here at Hoffman does not work from us trying to get people to give us money. It works from the perspective of having people self identify
as how can I support this? How can I help it grow? One of the avenues is to donate money. And so we have people donating from the perspective of contributing to the movement. We're not trying to get money from people. We're trying to open up a path of contribution for them and so they can become part of it and contribute to it. Both of you heard the call to become a teacher in that same way. We're not trying to make people into teachers. Only a person can make himself or herself into a teacher.
Drew, I know in your case, you were a therapist, a clinically licensed therapist, and and you had a practice, and yet I imagine not talk with you about it, but did Hoffman fulfill something, offer you the opportunity to fulfill something that maybe was alive for you when you were originally drawn into therapy? In two huge areas, the idea of the cellular journey, giving the intellect a rest so that the spirit embodied can move forward into this felt sense of things.
And then the the second thing is the multidimensional experience of humanity, rather than the solo experience of my psyche and other people's psyche. There was a much deeper and wider and higher experience of what it means to be human, what it means to be in this planet, what it means to be in this universe. Things that words right now fall way short. But the embodied experience of all of this was something I'd never experienced in my life before.
As so many people go through Hoffman, there's so many doors that open into rooms that they haven't visited before. And to see the look of wonder and awe in their eyes is unforgettable and memorable every time it happens, and it happens in every single process. Yeah. Marsha, what about you? Do you have any comment on that? I just feel so grateful to work with other people who can also have that same recognition. Just I love listening to what Drew just
said. Of course, Dad, everything I've learned from you and all the conversations that we've had, but you can have a conversation like this with any often processed teacher, and you get in the way that they talk about it, something that is deeply felt and experienced, something that's lives in them is true. I feel fortunate to be able to work with people like that.
And then to work with people who want to and for this, I'm talking about the people who come and choose to do the process, People who want something different for their lives and to see something a different way and to experience themselves in a different way than maybe they've experienced themselves before. Well, you guys, this has been fantastic. I have watched you all connect and smile and appreciate each other on video here, and listeners will appreciate it on audio.
Thank you so much for joining the Hoffman podcast community. You both have already been interviewed individually, but to see a father daughter come on as that relationship, but now as colleagues and as generational links to this incredible thing called the Hoffman process.
I just wanna add one thing, which is, Marcee, you talked about when you were in the process being proud of what your parents did very often, especially at ceremony of integration dinners, someone will come up to me and say, oh, your daughter is amazing and they're trying to tell me how incredible you were. There's always this feedback that's coming our way about your growth, your contribution.
And as I said at the very beginning of this, everything with you for your whole life has been wholehearted and natural. So this is a natural evolution. Thanks, dad. Glad that you see it that way. Wholehearted and natural. What a beautiful description of you, Marissa. Thank you. I feel I don't know what the word is. Not embarrassed, but, like, it's too much recognition in a good way, though. Your mother likes to say organic. It's organic evolution. Organic indeed, you two. Thank you.
Thank you. Thanks, Drew. Thank you for listening to our podcast. My name is Liza Ingrassi. I'm the CEO and president of Hoffman Institute Foundation. And I'm Razzi Grassi, Hoffman teacher and founder of the Hoffman Institute Foundation. Our mission is to provide people greater access to the wisdom and power of love. In themselves, in each other, and in the world. To find out more, please go to hompaninstitute.org.