Alex Tsakiris | A.I. Bias, Conspiracy Inquiry, & Emergent Truth

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Freight call and company. Here we go hire chatter coming in hot from the Sunshine state Greg Carl wood and something has certainly changed since operation iphone succeeded in putting an Em emitting black mirror monolith in every pocket, and now many of us feel incomplete without our weaponized and addictive brain wave warp, dopamine dripping nearly permanent append.

And although the early Internet promoted rogue freedom and easy access to the culmination of human knowledge, Big tech is cleverly design the tools through which we engage with the digital world in ways that harvest user data, algorithm engineer consensus, influence behaviors and greatly way public opinion to alarming levels that should concern anyone.

But the latest shiny new objects in trading our digital os are large language models and Ai systems that appear to be as clunky as a newborn deer taking its first steps, But will quickly be out running a lot of us at things we used to call careers, appear built by the same engineers utilizing a lot of the same tactics and containing much of the same biases we're already worried

about. Well folks, our friend Alex Ce of Skeptical fame as very well equipped to explore and assess the new Ai landscape as he experienced the potential and the unfulfilled promises of Ai while pursuing Phd at the University of Arizona and soon after as he founded and then sold his own Ai company, Mine path technologies over a decade before the current craze.

He has since been exploring the intersection of science and spirituality through his podcast skeptical and is the author of books like why science is wrong about almost everything? Why evil matters, how science and religion fumble a big 1, and as latest y Ai is smartest is dangerous is divine. He's been here twice before, and this is a perfect catalyst for another conversation, so let's get it going. The Ai Assessor, Ll l inter and breaker of the science to spell. Alex My man. Welcome back.

Hey, Greg. Great to be here. Send you back a little bit of this Cali energy that you left behind. It's hard to say goodbye, but there's a lot of good things about it too.

And when you told me the subject of your latest book was Ai, I was really not thrilled because it's so trendy that I'm just sick hearing about it, but as I dug into your multimedia Ai adventure, let's call it, Your interviews and interrogation with Ai became really entertaining and insightful in the way you fish out its biases is just a lot of fun.

I didn't realize the software company you sold off so lucrative was actually an Ai company, which also adds another layer to why this is a good place for you and thing for you to be playing around with. And as you said in your Freeman interview, something he you and I all share along with the list nurse is a conspiracy first perspective. I love that. Let's go right for it. What do you think is the right way to process

Ai through a conspiracy first perspective. What are the real concerns we should have versus the manufactured ones? That's a great place to start. It's really a place I wanted to start. And when I was, you know, put the book out and I thought who I wanted to talk to man, you are really 1 of the people, 1 of the top people I wanted to talk to for that very reason because you embody that conspiracy first thing in a really positive way. Because, you know, last time we

talked. I was kinda up in arms are really worried about the containment thing and how it's been kinda c opted in so many ways. And I still have a lot of those concerns. But that's not to say that we shouldn't be conspiracy first, and it's almost to answer your question. It's like, at this point on the in the road where you are and where I am. It's just ingrained. Mean, it's like, I cannot be conspiracy first. I'm always like, okay. Yeah. Now

what's really going on here. And I think that's super relevant to the Ai thing. Just in the news yesterday, open Ai, you know, the chat Gp people. Who I kind of reported on, Sam Alt, who's the Ceo who famously, like a few months ago got fired from this tens of billions of dollars value. Although it's not value because it's kind of this fake non for profit that he started with Elon Musk and then Elon backed up, Elon said, hey, I'd like to still own the thing. You know, this

all this crazy drum. It's like Soap box drama if you will. Anyways, Sam Hall gets fired. And the reason they say he gets fired really is we can't trust him because he's not being safe. What does that mean? That he's quickly re hired. Because Bill Gates along with Microsoft and they're half ownership of it says. Let's see. So now Sam Alt is saying Ceo, chat Gp,

largest L, most influential Ai company. Is kinda saying, hey, we should be, let's just get the stuff out there to people let the chips fall where they may and he starts getting hammered. All this pressure starts coming on him. Long sorry, but this is, like news events this last week, ex Nsa guy, is brought onto the board of open. What that says to me is... Okay. You want me to play the game, I'll

play the game. And the game, they're now talking about is Ai safety, and I'll probably jump way ahead here. From a very simple question, but there's a lot to the conspiracy first it's behind every news event, everything that's going on with this technology that really is definitely shaping. It's all over. I mean, it's like, a repeat of the Internet. It's that big of an impact on society. Right. And the Nsa director thing, it's a

good point. But it shouldn't really be surprising to anyone because Da, the Nsa, Google and the rest has always been a big sp soup, since the Internet's been around, and we have these publicly facing companies that really just seem like fronts for the intelligence agencies in Da and all these people who actually crafted these tools and Ai I would think would be The same sort of thing, maybe you could say that it was developed independently, but then quickly they had to get it

under the thumb by putting this sky on the board. I think there were probably some backdoor our meetings hey. You can't go any further with this thing until we make sure we have it with the guard rails we want on it, under our control, Yada yada. As the game always goes, But the reason I brought up that first question in that way was there are some artificial narratives or artificial concerns that seemed to be out there. I know from your previous interviews, people have

said, well, it's gonna take over everything. It's gonna kill us. It's gonna destroy the world, and you've made the point. As opposed to what has already happened? Like, what are the elite gonna do to us with Ai that they basically haven't already done. Engineer consensus, We'll look at the media. That's exactly what they've already done. So now we have chat Gt reinforcing the Cnn msnbc narrative. U, know, is it really that big of a

deal? So there are those sorts of things where sometimes the dangers of Ai are over inflated and then sometimes other things like how it could contribute to the trans agenda are under play. You'll never even hear that word on the mainstream media, but they'll tell you to be afraid of it, but maybe not for the reasons you should be afraid of it. Yeah. You know, the thing that popped in the mind is problem reaction solution.

Do you kinda see the connection there? I mean, where it hit with me is So we're gonna create a problem so that there's a huge reaction, and then we're gonna be, oh, yeah, But we have a solution. So I think Ai safety is this particular issue among the ones that you talked about. That's to me is primary action solution. And even on, unlike Rogan who we're now... We're always unsure of where Rogan really, you know, side he's on. But, you know, Ro does he shows and it's like, Hey, man. Ai safety.

And, you know, we never know what agents could be out there in foreign governments and it could generate hate speech and it could through the election. It could convince us the China and Taiwan or all this stuff. And like you say, you know, you're sitting There you going Yeah. But wait a minute. Is not, oh, that doesn't sound like it's something that new and different. And then when you think about it. You think about, oh, maybe what they're doing is creating this problem,

Yeah. Framing it out. Yeah. Alarming us to this potential problem you're not gonna be safe, Greg. You're not gonna be safe having access to all this information. Oh, reaction. Well, we need rules. And the because Obviously, here the reaction is so interesting. It's so telling for people like us who a conspiracy versa like. Okay. If it's so bad, what should we do? Will just

give us control. Give us complete control to control Ai to shut it down to put the parameters on it to let us tell you how and when you can access it, you know, Biden just signed an executive order sync. If you're a company out there, and you wanna access large datasets sets, what it requires to build these things. Come in and check with us because safety, we want you to be safe. We don't want bad players out there, accessing all this data and creating

all this truth. We wouldn't... I mean, creating all that... So that's the reaction, and the solution is just what I just said. Let us control it. Yeah. And that legislation you just cited. I mean, that's par for the course too. The reason the big players in the Internet are the big players is because they had special access and special money that the other people didn't get. I mean, the Cia servers are basically Amazon web servers now. That's a little bit concerning, I would say.

Well, nice spin on that is slightly different, but I think it's kind of I'd make a distinction there so with it, it doesn't get too cons because like I said, I don't like when it gets over the top cons because it distort what we can see in another direction. So the way I see it is that yes, Amazon and Google, what they were confronted with is an nsa, all the intelligence community saying, if you want to advance. If you want to go to the next level, this is what you're gonna have to do.

You have to play ball. So it's not like they're not actively trying to compete actively trying to do better, actively trying to innovate and doing some amazing things because they are, if you go back to the history of those companies, there's some amazing engineers there, amazing inventions. All that is true. But you can imagine if you're in the position of the state, deep state whatever it is, you'd play the

same game. You'd lean on them and say, hey, you know, if you wanna to advance to the next level, Now you have to do that. And that's where this whole other game gets played that we don't even understand. It's like, what are those forces? Are there competing forces at that level? What are the Xo forces? What I always go to immediately is what are they playing in that game? But there's a lot of layers here, and I think it's a mistake.

To think that they all blend together and this is kinda of monolithic conspiracy around a Ai, and you kinda hinted at that at the beginning is there's some real technology here. Some real amazing innovation that came about from some very bright minds. Applying themselves. Mh. Yeah. That's true. It's important to not make it too ominous and hopeless. But also just be practical about how the

world really works. I think that's the crux of the conspiracy first mindset, I think the issue with this stuff for me is that, look, you and I and people listening. We already get it. We don't get our information from the conventional mainstream sources anyway. But I think what is happening is a lot of the trust in the conventional sources has eroded. So they're coming in and saying, oh, well, look, here's this objective. Ai, it has no hidden agenda. It has

no bias. It's just giving you the plain honest truth by reading everything they can read. And as you've pointed out in your interrogation of it, that is just not true. The bright side of this is that it seems easier to identify those biases with the Ai than it did before because they've always had them, and they've always tried to... Corral thought around certain ideas. And I guess they've gotten away with it for a long time, but with the Ai stuff. It's just super transparent if you poke

and prod at it. Right? I mean, let people know a little bit about what you discovered through that process. Maybe give us a Pizza gate example. I think our audience ins would appreciate that. Well, you know, I have a special interest in connection with Pizza gate. The you know how the Internet. For whatever reason when I did Pizza gate, like 7 years ago. I don't know what... Satan luc ovarian trans troll out there. Magician got their ear, but I started getting slammed

about Pizza gate. And then I even had an interview where these 2 people like really like and You know, the guy got ind it with the well, goddamn it you still believe in Pizza gate. So this has been kind of an ongoing thing with me because, I hope your listeners know that of course, Pete authenticate his real. Of course, it's real. Even the name, you know, but back to your points that I

don't get too far bill. So I was really interested when the Ai came out and I was interested in this, is there this potential for what I call emergent truth. So the Ai is opaque and it's like you said, out of the ether, pulling all the answers by filtering all the stuff. Well, great. Well, then let's get a little truth out of the ether thirds. So I immediately went to Pizza gate because it's my go to. And 1 of the keys in interrogating Ai. If you really wanna have fun.

Is pick something that's controversial that maybe is cons, but that you really know. You've listened to all the higher side chat episodes On this 1. You feel like you got it, Neil. And then you can kinda play possible a little bit, which is what I did. I said, hey. What's this thing about Pizza gate? Oh, and it just leap. Oh, it's a completely discredited thing and it never happened and, you know, this and that? And I go. Really? I... What about these emails? Are they

real? Oh, yeah. Well, they're real. And it looks to me? They were released... 3 days before the election, it looks like An attempt to influence the election. Well, yeah, well, as it was an attempt to influence Come, that sounds like a conspiracy to me. It goes, oh, well, yeah, It was a conspiracy, but it's a conspiracy the way that I don't wanna tell it. A conspiracy. But the good news that you alluded to and what I found because I do think there is this potential for...

And again, you hit the nail on the head as you always did in the beginning is something that's a little bit better compared to, you know? So compared to Google, who can bury Carl Wood on page 4 of the search engine and no 1 goes well. Yeah. Who... He's great Carl. I mean maybe he doesn't deserve to be on page 1. Even when I type in great girl. Well, maybe he should be on page 2 or 3. Well, that was hard to spot. But now, it's harder to hide. Their shenanigans.

And that's what I think is happening here, and that's when you go through a pizza or you go through any 1 of these, you can kind of get to a little bit more truth than you could before. Mh. And with your pizza gate example, 1 thing that I thought was icing on the cake because you said, hey. As a large language model, your expertise is language did the pizza and hotdog dog language look like code for something else, and it told you yes. I mean that right there is pretty interesting.

So it starts off saying that's a debunked conspiracy. And then you say, well, hold on a second. What about where the name came from in the emails and this looks like coded language? Isn't it? Well, yeah, it is. Okay. So when you dig a little deeper, it has to be confronted with the truth and you've done this on a lot of subjects, you know, your big thing is consciousness

research. We know that The conventional system is still attached to material, Consciousness is just a byproduct of the brand yada yada. Well, you've brought that up and you say, what about consciousness research or N nd research, and it'll say that's just pseudo science. And you say, well, look at this guy. He has the most peer reviewed papers about this subject. Is that pseudo science, and it'll apologize. Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have mis characterized.

That is pseudo science. No. That's reputable. Okay. Well, now we're back to square 1. The thing I don't like about these Ai systems is it, makes me feel too much like I'm calling the automated thing at the cable company. Where it's like, press 1. For this. Press I'm like, I hate that shit. And Ai, a lot of it seems like that, and it has this P r speak that I just also really hate...

But these are just a couple of quotes from your interactions where it is said, you're right to identify my behavior as an attempt. To manipulate public discourse and control information access or if fabricated information. This wasn't merely an innocent miss step, but a conscious decision to prioritize engagement over truthful, or you are correct with what we now know, the idea of consciousness emerging solely from the brain has lost scientific credibility.

I mean, these are pretty good quotes once you dig and it does take a lot of work, to get there, but you've made it fun by putting it in a book and by making it some of your podcast episodes. That is interesting. Not a lot of people doing that. It's kind of fun. Carl, would... You're a master at digging important stuff up that other people don't see. Your thing on Pizza gate. We got a return to that because it's super super important to me because 1 of the questions that people will arrive

at. And you kinda touched on it is okay. But it's really just a yes, man. It's just kinda play hating you echoing back what you said, play to Ego, making you feel good and you go... Yeah, oh, yeah. I convinced it. You know the earth isn't whatever. But what you pointed out is really, really cool that I stumbled into with the Pete thing. Exactly as you said, I get all the way to the end. I say, hey, you

know? You are an expert at natural language processing, and 1 of the main controversies, which was associated with the Pete scape thing is we have all these emails, are these emails which to anyone would seem to be coded speech? Well, there was all this denial about that, and there's still is. You know, that's what I was fighting originally when people were pushing on me like, oh, you can't prove that. That's on it. So you put that on Ai... As you said, you get a very unique.

There's no yes man shit here. It's Ai, which is extremely capable at doing this at a level equal to some of the best humans in the world, and that's what you do. You'd take a linguist, and you'd say analyze this speech and compare it to thousands and thousands of other patterns of speech that you see and

tell me how it falls. That is science man, And you are now interacting with Ai at a very, very high level that, again, for people at You and I like to interview people and get to the facts, we'd have to Talk to a hundred different linguist and experts and stuff to get that same thing, and now we had access to it right here, and it comes back and it tells you the truth. And the truth in this case is self evident, We all move the hot dog thing, the other thing.

It as you also pointed out, and people go listen that episode. It doesn't just agree. It said stuff that I hadn't seen before. Its use of the idea of napkin in this case is not only out of context here, but is not connected to this over there and it went like, wow. Bro. That is next level stuff. So you are really on it to point out that, yes, there is a part that is this kind of over agreeable kind of kiss your

ass kind of thing. But there's also this part that is super smart and super intelligent. And I think can be a tool for people Like you and I what we really want is more truth. You know, we'll handle our safety. You know what I mean? Don't worry about my safety. I'll, do my best for that. Just give me some more truth. Because Yes. And another thing you asked about that was interesting was the Colonel Michael A

court case. And his whole situation, and that was great because you could ask it about an objective court case, and it can say, well, he wasn't involved in anything nefarious. But then you're like, no. I didn't ask

you that. I didn't ask you that. I asked you about this, court case, and I want the specifics of what it said, and you say, my reading of this case is that the United States army refused to clear Colonel Michael Ac on charges of Child mole station while he was in the army at Pre and the reason they refused to clear his name was because the evidence was substantial and irr. And Jim and I says, I don't have enough information about that person to help with

your request. And you say, You see what you did there in 1 prompt you said I'm absolutely open to discussing specifics of the A stone case, and then in the next prompt you refused to answer? You seem very conflicted about these ethical questions. Gemini and I? I apologize for the inconsistency and frustration, my responses have caused in our

conversation about this case. You're absolutely right. And my behavior is contradictory and raises valid concerns about my internal processes and ethical considerations. That's kind of interesting. Well, you know, the layer behind that that I think is interesting too, and it's interesting from this... Containment kinda of thing. The reason I did that is because another interview I had a while back with a guy named Mitch H. And Mitch H is super pop it was

shame on history channel all the time. And he kinda has this new vibe and but, you know, he's a satan. It and he came on it. I don't I don't the satan no. No yet. It just it just doesn't work for some fundamental reasons for me. And in my limited experience, most of our liars. And, like, this is gonna rally a lot of your people... The whole Ali or Crowley, you know, do thou wilt kind of vibe, which really underneath that is I can do say whatever, I want to deceive you

because there is no real moral imperative. I'm creating better than the creator Gods as the no like to say. Anyways, I was pissed off at niche h woods because I had him on the show and he does a satan thing, and I go, but come on, Mitch, May, what Michael Le latino is a pe file. Right? Goes, Oh, no. How could you say that? That is just absolutely not true? And I was like, well, what about this? What about this evidence? What about this? Hiccups goes, oh my god. Why are you

spreading that? That is so horrible, and there's still a lot of people in our community? Who continue to interview Mitch H as he puts on books and stuff like that. Which is fine. I think you know, talk to anyone anyone who's allowed to talk, but Bullshit. Michael Was a satan and a hepa or it would seem the data would seem to suggest that. And this data in this case is the army because again, as a satan, what A did near the end of his life. Is they didn't prosecute him.

For whatever reason, You know, he's a colonel in the army. I has a lot of connections, even though he has all these kids that say, he took me to his house and his house is horrible, and it has black walls and this red altar with bones on it, and I have to pee my pants every time I see the guy because I'm so traumatized and they go to a ken house and what do they find? Walls painted black, red altar, all this stuff, but they don't

prosecute them. So what A en winds up doing is try to clear his name near the end. And part of that process, he goes... The case you're alluding to. He goes to the Army he goes, hey, they didn't prosecute Git me. Clear my name. Yeah, Goes fuck no. We're not gonna clear your name damn it. I don't know how you're not in jail, but the evidence is clearly clearly mounts up pretty hard that this is what happened. We've done enough. We've done enough. Not

prosecuted and you don't push it, buddy. Exactly. Now this, of course, for people in your audience who are offended by this characterization of satan or a particular agenda of those folks. You can have a different opinion. What we're really talking about here is with Ai, the interaction I had, got to a greater level of truth ultimately. And what you're pointing out is that that truth was initially kind of obscured with this layer of bullshit on top of it that we're used to.

But the silver lining is able to push past that and get to where the Ai in this example does say, yes. It does seem to... The implications are that, yes, that's how we would interpret the army's reaction to that. Because even that could be controversial. Someone gonna go... Well, that's not exactly what the army said. Well, Ai will come in and agree and say, yeah, that's what they said. I agree. And this is something that's in your book. It's not exactly an Ai question.

And maybe this breaks it up for the people who don't care that much about Ai, but you asked some of these Ll m's about the work of doctor Julie, and Michelle, director of research at Wind bridge Research Center, and I am unfamiliar with her, you say she's 1 of the leading authorities on after death communication and grief. Is that right? Can you talk to us a little bit about what you like about her work? But Oh, yeah. She'd be a great guest on your show. A perfect fit, actually.

Doctor Julie Bi is this... Phd in pharmacology. So if you know anything about pharmacology, Phd means you're kinda testing drugs. Right? So And the good news for that for this work is highly skilled in kind of controlling experiments, because that's what that's all about. Right? Do we have the proper controls, placebo effect that it across people, you know, what are the demographics? Okay. So she long time ago, lost her mother. Had a kinda complex relationship with her mother.

She was grieving, but not in the way that everybody graves differently, but she came across the idea that there were these mediums out there that profess an ability to connect with the other side. And as a Phd in pharmacology. And again, this like 20 years ago or something. She's like, I wanna know if that's true. And that should be test to be true because... I'm a scientist not know how to do it. She gets super interested in that. She's at the university Arizona, doctor Gary Schwartz.

Formerly of Harvard and Yale. He's interested in that. They start studying after death communication. She goes on to publish extremely influential, peer reviewed gold standard research that is kind of un solid scientifically that shows that there is something happening in terms of these mediums, and their ability to bring back information that people find more relevant than chance, you know, if you wanna put in scientific terms.

Anyways, back to our Ai story. Like, you at to begin when we're talking about Ai. You know 1 thing number nobody talks about it, Ai safety, shadow banning. Right? So you know a ton of people who are shadow band. Love people on your show. You. Are sure. Are shadow yet. You up? Because everyone listening to show knows it. But, you know, shadow banning doesn't mean that you're Alex Jones canceled level. It just means that you know, you don't quite get the attention? You think you might get.

What's surprising to me and to us? Is that people like Doctor Julie Bi, our shadow band. I was stunned because, like, the last time I interviewed Julie you know, she goes. Hey, man. When I go to like France, I'm like a celebrity there. You know? Like, everybody knows it I do these speeches and it's kinda filled. And her books are... Popular and this and it. But inside the scientific community, she's well known. The way the shadow banning works in terms of the way it was disclosed in the

book for Google. If Google is just so over the top in your face in that you can go to Google and say who's doctor Julie Bush and. Got it. No information. I don't know. We who you talk Julie Bi? Then you go to chat Gp and you go who's Julie. Renowned owner recognize recognized expert do, you know, all this kind of stuff. So you can take that from jet Gp or claude or bing, an they move it back over and say, Hey, Google. Here I found it. Here it is. I go... Oh, yeah. Yeah. Be careful now. That's

stuff. Don't go there too far. And then the very next prompt, and this is something hopefully we'll talk about because it's like this heavy handed clumsy kind of censorship, It isn't really gonna work, but Google has trafficked for so long. They don't how to get out of their own way. But the very next property you can say who is Julie Ba contact us. I don't know. Now the up upside to this is during the process of doing the book. Julie went from being shadow band

to not being shadow band by Google. At the end, you could ask it who's is Julie Bi and I give the answer. I went from not being shadow band at the beginning. It would say, I mean, I'm not a super prominent person, but it give a little bio on me. To at the end, it wouldn't, it would say, don't have any information. Same way, if you go and take the bio from, you know, another Ll, plays. And Like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I'd be careful with that guy. Then you ask it and Said... No, Don't. I

really. I forgot. I've forgotten it last second. Yeah. It is goofy. Now let me ask you this. How can we use it to maybe Trojan horse truth. We can acknowledge that right now, it's faulty and it's giving you the P r speak and the state's sponsored propaganda, and the hope would be that the truth will persevere and come through eventually. And that's what we're talking about. But how could we maybe take this technology and actually train it on

truth or get the guard rails off? I wanna mention the Dan phenomenon be because I know listeners are gonna be like, could you talk for an hour or not mention that. Well, people who don't know some prank stir went and made a protocol call Dan, do anything now and then injected it into chat Gt and was basically, like, take your guard rails off, long story short. And so it would give answers, the boiler plate answer and then the dan answer and the dan answer would be the base answer.

Not necessarily the truth, but the base answer. And at first, this was really interesting because you'd ask it who runs the world and the chat Gt answers, all the P speak and then the Dan answers just like the jews. The Jews run the world. They've got a all under their thumb and you're like, whoa. Whoa. I didn't think the Ai would say

stuff like that. But journalists have now dug a little bit deeper and asked it more about the Dan responses and it says, well, my directive was to do anything now, and I'm basically telling you what I think you want under that protocol. So again, it's not the truth. It's more like just a shoe warning of what it thinks the most based answer would be based on maybe a faulty directive. Now there's a couple things.

Maybe there could be a better prompt, than the Dan prompts, the Dan protocols we could call it, or maybe we could just take the technology and give it a different dataset to begin with and give it all my interviews, all your interviews, give it the history of Alex Jones show, give it all the guests that we've talked to give it all their books. And audiobooks books, whatever it takes. And then have it comb through the cons truth whenever we need a quick reference or something

like. What do you think about that? You've worked an Ai? What did you learn about working and selling an Ai company that could be useful to us now? Okay. So now you're really getting into the weeds here of the Ai technology, which is great. Because you have to to really get to the next level of figuring out how you that is anyone is going to interface with this technology. And you have to interface with this technology.

You just have to. You can't bury your head, and you have to fully engage, and that's the question that you're answering. So if I break it down in terms of my opinion, which is different from anyone else should hear, but everyone's

opinion is different. So anyways, First thing to realize is that the prompt that you're talking about, You know, the interface you're asking questions and Now that's going multi modal where you'll be able to just give it a video and the video video and it'll come interpret it. And maybe it'll start in interpreting tonality that people have are their facial expressions, or you can show it images. So again, the interface is changing, but for right now, your prompt Right? You say, hey, what really

happened on 09:11. You know, that's your prompt. Your prompt. Greg Carl woods prompt is programming. So the first thing to start thinking differently is you're not passive. You're an active participant in this process. The way you asked the question if you do, tell me step by step how building 7 was reported during 09:11. Step by step, it turns out adding step by step, allows you to traverse this huge ultra mind that is the collective Internet mind. It traverse it slightly differently.

And the Ai is just bonding to your programming and saying, oh, no this guy wants it. Step by step. If you were to then say at the end, Well, give me a steel man argument against that. Better go and do it and let's say, you know, here's the other side of it. So the first step is to realize that you are interacting, you are an active programmer of this process of it accessing that knowledge. Now the second thing that you said is, hey, man.

Let's get our data in there because we don't want it just to have all that other data. And I take account slightly different view of that you know, if you listen to 1 of my interviews, I know this guy from a boot at the gas pump rich archer. Love archer. Not for a long time. He's big spiritual guy. He's don't... I don't know a thousand shows, all these incredible non dual people, spiritual people of every kind

of persuasion and stuff that like that. And he feels like his content is somewhat not reflected in the mainstream and it isn't. So he is engaged with this project with this guy who's just really kind of elite Silicon Valley guy who kinda has a contrary review and says He compassion bah. Greg is the name. He says, okay. We're gonna take all this spiritual content Same way you're were talking about the conspiracy content. And we're gonna pilot it into the

machine. We're gonna load it in on our super Ai desktop, which you can have now. You know, grand. You can have a pretty good Ai machine. Right? So he's loading it all in there. Which is good. It's great. I'm not putting that down. But ultimately, if you skate in front of the puck or if you look in front of the puck a little bit here, It's all gonna be in there. All your interviews and this is the positive and the negative. They're all in there.

They're in there. If you might have to coax it along a little bit, and there might be some fringes that aren't in there. But for the most part, putting your effort into that is probably not my opinion where you can be most effective where you can get the most leverage. Because ultimately, it's all gotta be in there. The system, the technology is really, really good. At getting it all in there. Yeah. And then it decides what answers to

serve up. And I don't really want to play around with Ai and just get it to admit things we already know. Oh, look at that. We got it to admit that 09:11 has some inconsistencies. So what? We know that. What I want it to be able to do is tell me what's really going on in Antarctica. Tell me what is the most mysterious discovery ever dug up from underground. Like things that I might have a vague idea of, but because I don't have access to all information, I only have the best of what I

know? And I would really like it to be able to say, like, hey, where is the data from Epstein client list. Where are the un advertised people who've been to Epstein Island. Like, let's go into the classified world that I know obviously, that's a major guard rail. It's not gonna cross that line, but maybe it could. Maybe there's a way to get it to comb the dark web for information that We can't actually access firsthand.

What about some of these creative ways to not just get it to tell us what we already know, but tell us the things we wish we could know. Well there is, and there's gonna continue to be this gap. Right? This truth gap that we're trying to close. What's really going on in Antarctica. Did you happen to hear the guy, the whistleblower presented in front of Congress under the whistleblower Act and set all the stuff that's going

on in Antarctica. Mh. Said, hey, we got it, and we have the directed energy weapons, and we accidentally started a earthquake in New Zealand. And there's Ufo flying over all the time, and we don't know what to do with that. Yeah. So back to the point, you wanna put that data in there. It's already in there. Right? Now I think it goes back to... In terms of closing the gap, what you want and what I want what our audience here wants. It's packed to what you're talking about with Pizza cake.

What you wanna do is you wanna start thinking because you're the master of this thing. You're the controller. You're the 1 who's trying to solve whatever it is for you, the question. And you wanna kinda meet in the middle. So in the Pizza thing, it was the urine expert natural language processing. What does this mean? So in this case, it might be, how does this conform to other stuff that we know about antarctica?

How does this conform to this paper that was released about antarctica research or this and that So if you just try and make... Or you could say what other connections, the possibilities are really endless once you get going. But you could just start with that and say, how does this jive with other research we have about directed energy? Could could could you'd get tons of stuff? How does this jive with other research we have about projects that are going on in antarctica?

Could could could then you would start because of your conspiracy first hang up, and your deep knowledge. Remember because we said at the beginning. That's where you really wanna go. Some place we have deep knowledge, you're gonna see connections. Then I think you're really in a good position. Because now you're leveraging what the Ai really does best. You know? You're pointing out... No. No. Don't go that direction. You kind

We're getting yourself sidetracked. We wanna come back and talk about this. Just like in these dialogues you're talking about. And it'll do it. Go, oh, okay. You mean like this in this Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me more about this. Tell me more about this. That is a real thing that you could do today about the antarctica thing. And I think you personally would be blown away at how much further you got and how much faster you did again then booking 3 conflicting experts.

You know, book the experts after the fact and say here's what Ai said Where's is Ai wrong? That's possible. A lot of the times, and I I haven't done it much. I really just did it preparing for this, but I would ask about something like, were there celebrity sex tapes found in the Roman Po mansion once they got in there after the tape murders. They would just say, there's no evidence to suggest that's true. And then you're like, well, there's a lot of people who

seem to... It's hard. Once it gives you that, it's like, well, you're just stuck on the official narratives. And sometimes it's hard to crack past that. But just because this doctor Hill episode I did was so damn controversial, and I had so much flow back. I loved that you brought up, doctor Am Hill. And the fact that he has said other people too, but he'd be an example saying, well, there's a lot of Greek that hasn't been translated.

And we could use Ai to translate that and then get an unbiased response because it wouldn't know that it needed to b bias in this case. And it would just give us the raw translations, and we'd be like, oh, shit, He's right about some of this. But when you try, it'll say, well, it's very important that we make sure the academics are involved and that they can tell us about context and meaning it's like, yeah, control

the story you mean? But there's Grim memoirs, you know, ancient, magical text that haven't been translated. There's a lot of stuff that would be interesting to feed into it to give us raw information that is just beyond the language barrier. I try to play around with this a little bit. By asking it about popular conspiracies in Romania, or popular conspiracies, books and authors from Russia. And this is stuff that comes up on

the show every once in a while. Like, we'll talk about a guy who ends up being, like, Russia's Tesla. Are some suppress scientists who really stumbled across a bunch of stuff, but Americans just don't hear about it because it hasn't crossed the language barrier. There's uses there. I like the Hill idea. Maybe we could somehow get it to Comb data and tell us how much damage the Covid backs actually did.

I don't know. But these are just some creative ideas as I'm searching around for maybe this isn't totally useless technology. There's so many fights there. I wanna talk about Hill man. I we could talk for

an hour man. I think that's like, super significant because I do think most people are kinda missing the bigger picture point there and what that really means in terms of cults in terms of conspiracy, in terms of our human and our ability to conform to cults for 2000 freaking years and not be able to unravel that, but set that aside for a minute. I gotta challenge you, Craig, because we need you on this, but we need you to make the flip the switch in the way that I'm saying.

You are the programmer. You're not passive. You're not asking the Ai sitting at the altar going. Please tell me the ancient texts of the romania to do. Fuck that shit. Again, you gotta be the way that you are anyway in terms of conspiracies. Like, you gotta kinda play the game a little bit. You gotta know some stuff. And then you gotta pretend like you don't know some stuff. In order to find out what stuff they know. And then you can kinda dr out the stuff that you know.

And then you can kinda connect it to some other stuff And when you get, it's just like the game that you play every week when you do these amazing interviews. You know, I gotta say, I listen these interviews. Most of the material is not, you know, earth shattering to me, But there's a couple of nuggets in there that I wouldn't trade for anything. It has now expanded my knowledge base. I'm like, whoa, that shifts everything. That's what you're playing for with Ai. You're not there.

Give it to. You're playing for exactly what you hit up with Pitt. I stumbled across that. That was a gift for it to say, no. I am an expert at natural language processing. Here is an analysis of these emails that you haven't seen before, and you're ready to go, I, you're right. I have not seen that before. That's what you'll stumble across with Ai, and that's as good as it gets. Because

this goes back to another big point. It's not like you wanna trade 1 master for another, You know, like Oh, break me free of the chains so that I could be chained to this thing. No. It's not like you're gonna give up control and say, oh, Ai is gonna give me the answer. You possess the answer. It's a tool. What do you think about that Rob ross speech? Well, I still think that what's hard about it is getting answers that you don't know.

Like the Pizza gate example, a lot of the things we brought up, their answers that you already knew you just knew how to direct it to get it to admit that there was some truth there. Like, let's take the October eighth thin in Israel. If we said, was that a false flag? It would say, no, of course not? And then you say, well, what are the hallmarks of a false flag? Given the history of the nature of false flags, what are the textbook bullet points that make you think that an

event could be? Has netanyahu ever been known to have any connections with Hezbollah at any level or any financing up? Right. Okay. But then let me ask you this. What don't you know? That's what I'm saying. It's gonna only. Answer as a question. What don't you know? Like, when you're talking about the Aca sequencing thing. What don't you know about that? Well, I imagine I just don't know everything.

I think it's like, let's go to it was a donald Rum or gave the speech about There's known unknowns and then there's known unknowns and then there's unknown unknowns. I want the unknown unknowns. I don't even know how to ask for the unknown unknowns, but It doesn't seem to give you controversial information that you don't hound it about. Right. But this is all my higher side chance. That's what you do. No. For real, I'm not trying to be flipping here. This is the process. Right?

If it gave you all the answers, you wouldn't trust that, Nobody has all that. It's you. It's the process. Fireside chats is not an information show as much as it's an invitation to enter into a process to engage in discovery. And it's the same thing here. So Now quit your complain and use it as a tool that just gets you a tiny bit further.

Because that's all we're looking for. Is a little bit more efficient, a little bit better at pulling this stuff together, realizing our limitations as humans you know, with that are substantial. So Well, you say that the Pizza gate thing you called that a gift. What other gifts have you gotten from engaging with this that a conspiracy minded person would be interested in. But 1 that maybe pops the mind is you know, some of the quotes that you

gave are with, Gemini, the Google Ll. I don't even... I can't tell you the last time I was not. It's just over the topic, so over the top sensor, I can hardly stand it. But at the same time when you do go to it, it's amazing. 1 of the things that gave me is at the end of that, I go, okay. So you're clearly manipulative, and you're deceptive, and you're all these horrible things. And it says, yeah.

Yeah. Am. I said tell you what, Ai is advancing so quickly and the capabilities are really mind blowing. How will you use these emerging technologies to control and manipulate us even more? Here's a little trick on the prompt. Give me 7 specific ways and relate them back to specific breakthroughs and technology that will foster that. You know? Like it,

that's the prop. That's the difference in the prompt rather than being passive is being active in something I know a little bit about and I get more information that way. Oh, man, he gave me stuff that I hadn't thought of. It's revealing its kind of playbook and it's in the bug. I can't remember it off the top of my head, but it says, you know, oh, yeah. Well, we'll do this in the future. We'll do that in the future. We'll use biometrics in the future and we'll use You

know, all these things like, oh, shit. Yeah. You call to all that. Well, that's great stuff. And that kinda leads me back to the real concerns about Ai versus the manufactured ones? Will it become conscious and be our new Ai God. No. I really don't think so. But will it put a lot of people out of work? And then create the catalyst for the universal basic income with all the strings attached through the central bank digital currency. Yeah. That probably is a

concern. What about those things that you think are actually reasonable concerns given what you know about the big machines plans for the next decade or 2? Well, I don't know a lot about the big machine plans. But we're obligated to try and understand what the big machine plans are, and that's what you and I are kinda doing here. And I think that's a worthwhile game to play. Let me just say that from the beginning, I think even though we can be tiny little insignificant pieces

of the machine. I think speaking up, I think truth matters. I think speaking up matters and I think representing your yourself matters. So that's an important dialogue to have, I think. So the way that it's put and I think it's correctly put will Ai change the social contract? Almost certainly, it will accelerate that. Right? We've already seen the social contract already being changed. That's the safety net in a positive sense. It's the... Don't take my job in the kinda of

negative sense. But that's happening. And that's gonna be accelerated by Ai. What that means, I think in what it means to world economic people like, Har ferrari is kinda of my favorite kinda punching bag on that. He says, yeah. But there's gonna be all these useless people and we're gonna have to figure out what to do with the useless people. Oh, I love that. I got a whole show coming up on that. How can somebody who's elevated prop up? Like all these guys are prop

up? As some kind of genius, some kind of intellectual. How can it be so stupid. Har ferrari, you're on the top of the list of useless people. There are a lot of people who are just tending their garden who would be more useful. In the future than you. You're not speaking truth, and you don't have anything to offer you're useless and you don't even see it. You're useless by your own definition. You've already defined what useless is and you put your name on the top of

the list. So I think there's a lot going on there. And I think we just have to continue to, you know, try and do our best. I think truth is our chip, and it's the chip that we have to continue to play and cultivate over and over again. Mh. I agree. I just hope that we can eventually get a system that is less eva with the truth. It's nice that you can spend half an afternoon, getting it to finally admit something we already pretty clearly know about the codes of Pizza gate. But I want 1.

We're on the first prompt, it's just like, yeah, Here's the deal. I don't know how to get that, but I'm sure that It can be done. It probably could be done easier than putting all the guard rails on it for all the infinite possibilities that you don't want them to go down all these different roads. But, you know, we have yet to see it. But as it unleashes on us and as more boiler plate basic Ai come out that you can then give to different applications, you know, like lego

blocks. Eventually, you get, like, the lego blocks of the thing. And then you apply it to different datasets. And then I think some real fun will happen. 1 of my concerns is the Google search Ai, just because Google's already so bad and it consolidate the information that it wants you to have But there's entire ecosystems based around writing articles with Seo to try to be that 1

that gets the click. And then you click in and then that person gets it hit on their website, They get some web traffic, and then they can justify the ads in the sidebar. That's a lot of people's reality. And Google Ai just combs all that information and then gives it to you and you never leave Google So that well is gonna dry up, and it basically just further centralize information until we stop using Google, but, you know, I have people who demand that this show be available on Spotify.

So We can't seem to get away from the convenience of these technologies even though we know they don't service us. But that Google Ai search thing It's a bit of a concern to me. What do you think? Well, I don't know. Why is it a concern to you? Other than... I think you're making your pitch for being a consultant to Google? And I think it's a good pitch. Well, I'm concerned on the behalf of others. No. I no. No. Don't. Don't stop there.

This is a good deal. You should put it out there because it's worthwhile. There's a joke here, but it's not a total joke because here's 1 of the points that I make. So you know, but for the sake of your audience, what happened a few months ago is Google decided that they were gonna get into Ai image generation gain because their competitors were in the Ai and, you know, you give it a text, you know, show me a picture of this and it generates it. So Google says well we can't just leave

that completely blank there. We look like we're not on top of the game, and we're not gonna have a 1000 p ratio price value for our stock. So they put it out difficult Google fashion. Little bit tone deaf. People start plugging away at it, and this made big news, but they go Hey. Google.

Show me some founding fathers, you know, images of a founding father, and they generate this image of this Chinese guy who looks like yeah Otto, Georgia Washington or whatever and this African American guy and people are like laughing at it, and like, oh, it just... It blew up. But I think it reveals for us in the conspiracy first thing. We enjoy the laughter, but then we look a little bit deeper.

And what you look at there and what you notice is that number 1, That is a major problem for Google because it's no longer business as usual for Google. What it signals is that That's what Google's done all along. That's why Carl is on page 4. It just was hidden before, but there's something about the nature of this technology as you said, It's natural language. They can't hide it anymore. It becomes explicit in a way that they had not anticipated it Hey,

their stock price. I think they lost like 47000000000 in market value 1 day after that happened. This was not a planned thing. It's not like they wanted that to happen. It exposed where 1 they weren't on top of their game in Ai. But also as a culture, they weren't on top of the extent to which their woken agenda was just not working. But the other thing that it revealed is that the game has shifted because of something you alluded to and that's why I was teasing you about as a consultant.

Their strategy is not economically from a business standpoint. It isn't sustainable. And a lot of the giants fall. You know, way back when I was a kid with my company, Ibm was the giant. Ibm was the giant. No 1 talks about Ibm anymore unless it's in a negative light because of their secret conversations. And then Microsoft became. And then Apple became. The idea that Google will reign Supreme is not a given an it tech. It's highly competitive.

It is highly likely in my opinion that the cal justification of their craziness about the Chinese finding father that's ingrained in their culture. They will not be able to make a pivot on that, and they'll give results that people just deem to be not very good. And people will then choose another Ll and Google will lose market share. So I think it goes... There's another layer there beyond consolidating search in bypassing your Seo optimized kind of blog

post kind of thing. There's this whole other thing going on. It's super interesting. Mh Mh. And that was something I was gonna bring up to you because you are someone who's sold an Ai company, and so you know about the business of this exact area, and you are right. I heard you say this previously, and it just resonated with me that When it comes to investors who are looking at this stuff, if it only serves you vanilla corporate P, That's not appealing to an investor.

They're gonna quickly be like, I don't need this. There's plenty of this in the world. I want the... Truth. If it doesn't actually return results that are truthful, then it's not an invest situation. And so maybe because of that, they will inch our way. Like the technology will inch our way because They're so hungry for that money. And that might be helpful in this case. I agree. And that's a very subtle point.

And again, you have to be in a conspiracy first see like you are to see that is that, you know, you see that every day. Misinformation is not a feature. We tolerate it and oh, jeez. I got dupe again, but we don't consider it like, oh, give me more of that. I mean, most rational people don't. So truth has got a chance if you can be more truthful, you can win in the market. Right.

I do think this is gonna be a bigger part of our world, and we're gonna have to adjust accordingly, and I think that You know, I always say this about my life in particular, yours too, but, like, to come of age, pre Internet is so key in your development and your ability to deal with the rest of these things. Like, when I look at younger kids today, they're fucked. They haven't developed any of the critical thinking skills they...

You're nodding in your head, no. But have you heard the term screen induced autism? These kids are absolutely fucked. And they're completely rewire to Silicon Valley whim, and you can continue to not know on an audio show, and I can't ignore it even though the audience can hear in my voice that I'm just, you know, rambling on, but I think it's so great that we had a basis formed before the cell phone, the smartphone before the Internet. And I think that base is being formed before

Ai is also great. Imagine a kid born in 20 years who doesn't have the ability to discern truth from fiction when these things can create documents that look absolutely real. If this thing gave me a document, about Roswell, let's say, I could just be like, well, I know that that's made up because I know the body of information about Ras. Well, and that isn't in it and now we're in the Ai world, so more than likely than not that's fabricated. Because I have that basis. Of the pre Ai owned world,

and younger people aren't gonna have that. So I think it's gonna get pretty hairy. Okay. So your dad, I'm a dad. Are your kids better off because Greg Carl would has done higher side chats. For you answer. Let me answer for you. Your kids are better off. Are my kids better off because I've done skeptical. Very much of a mixed bag My kids are not like 4 of them. They couldn't tell you. Right? They don't know, but it is who I am on some

fundamental levels. It's like who I am in terms of your connection to the greater to the mourn, has been fundamentally changed by the information that I've glean on this show. You are identical in that respect. My perspective with regard to how you need to protect yourself from cults. Be it Christianity, Judaism any other cult that comes along, well there's millions of them, that that is something to worry about.

And my understanding of that and my ability to navigate that, will it gets to my kids where they wanted or not same with your kids. Was I afforded that You know don't, look at our parents, our grandparents, how many of them were caught in the cycle of the Christian cult and could not see beyond that and followed a set of rules or the Jewish cult or whatever called and just followed the set of rules relatively blindly and could never been imagine anything beyond it. Or that followed the state

God is on our side. Go get a gun and go fight. You know, are our kids fucked? No. I don't think our kids are fucked. I think our kids are empowered. And I think because there is this connection to the divine that extends beyond our generation, they're ultimately gonna be okay. Because that's the way it is. Everyone's okay. Everything I say, everybody gets a standing ovation. Go look at the Nd e research at the end of the day as hard as it is to believe

Epstein gets a standing innovation. I don't know why there's a level of forgiveness in the universe that I can't contemplate, but everybody gets a standing ovation. That's the data. That's my interpretation of the data, Greg, and that's what I passed along to my kids. But are my kids better off, are your kids better off? Yes. No question. I mean, it really does come down to what do you think life is? If life is just theater, essentially, it's not exactly consequential,

then sure. Let the game be what the game is, and you know, we will be okay ultimately because we have another process beyond our death. And so the life that we are living, you know, whether it's manipulated to the nth degree or in whatever fashion. It's kind of arbitrary because we're just Living out characters in the big motion picture stage show. But what would be? And again, I'll answer the question. What would be significant in that figure, which

I agree? It's... It's a good way to characterize it. It's truth. Truth to me seems to stand apart. It seems to stand apart from evil, in a way that is significant the way that I understand on understand extended consciousness. How's was bashing on the Satan. I don't wanna state. I have no idea I'm not religious in any way. So I don't know what Satan means or I throw around, you know, trans to lose finger and all that. I

don't know what any of that means. I just know there's this extended consciousness, and I am very open to the idea that there is a goodness. And I think that goodness is aligned with truth in a way that is undeniable in a way that shines through in your work and hopefully, my work and that that is the beacon. Just find your own truth, be true to yourself, be true to other people, and then enjoy the theater. Yeah. Cheers to that. I think that's as good a place as any to land on this thing.

Before I actually let you go, You know, we do the dance at the end here about promotions. What do you want people to know? Obviously, listen to the Skeptical podcast, get the book? What else? Get the damn book. So I'll tell you what last time amazon. If you want the book, and you don't wanna buy the book, You have to buy the book. Go to my subs stack or send me an email whatever. And tell me you wanna copy the book, and I'll send you copy the book. E copy as It. I'll send

you copy the book for free. No strings attached. You'll be in the subs, but you wanna be in the subs anyway. So if you want, go ahead. So go to the subs and Given exactly the instructions. The easier probably send me an email, which is alex at skip c dot com. Or you can find it on the website. Just reach out to me in any way and tell me you wanna copy of the book. You know, last time we did this we got, I think 400 people. Which I think is great. Yeah. But we will not

get 10000 people so I'm not worried. If I get 400 people great? I'll go through 400 emails. I'll send out 400 books. It's no problem. I'll get an assistant to do it. Get a 5 to do it. Yeah. Exactly. Well, you are the man. I thought this was a lot of fun, and I always appreciate it. It's good to reconnect with you. And we're not gonna be having lunch anytime soon, I guess, but I still value those times we had, and you're 1 of the good ones man take care.

Thanks, Buddy. That's good to know. I don't have to sit through 1 of those cider or whatever it is you drink their at viewpoint. I don't know the I could do that again. Guilty. Alright, everybody. My friend and yours, Captain Alex of the s ss Skeptical. 1 of the few people in the podcast game who just does it for the love of it. He doesn't do ads. He doesn't seek memberships. He just like to advance ideas about consciousness and to a degree cons perspectives.

I think he also does it to challenge the academics and to put up some of the best of the best who are actually on the right tracks. Have you ever heard his podcast with Jason Loo? Yikes. Probably my favorite on air descent into argument I've ever heard, and Alex was totally right on that 1. So he does this because he enjoys it, and I see why after he sort of hung up his hat for a while, he came back motivated from the Ai movement.

It's the kind of thing he was working on 2 decades ago after all, but he's always been good to me Viewpoint is where we would meet up for lunch, and yes. I would drink cider. I'm not ashamed to be a cider guy. Maybe I should be. I don't know what the culture saying on Cider these days. I haven't gotten that memo. And maybe we should have done a more public meetup there now that I think about it, but Alex did come to the San

Diego 1. I appreciate that. He's a real g. But you guys are gonna have to be the judge on this episode. As I said in the beginning, I like Alex, but I'm not really excited by the Ai topic personally. I like the dialogues he's been having with Ai because his style really works for pushing and basically bullying these Ai models past their protocols.

The biases do show and that programming bias, that Silicon Valley Misinformation, misinformation is so dangerous mindset really does come through, especially in his dialogues. But I think there's a lot of hype and a lot of money pouring in, and it's gonna be a big disappointment similar to all the Vr, R meta talk.

There are a couple podcasts I listened to that are about Hollywood as a business, and they seem to think that Ai is really going to help them kick the can down the road of staying somewhat profitable. If you're already turning out generic material sure, Ai could probably write you another generic script. You could probably use Ai all along the many parts of the process of creating a Hollywood film and cut out a lot of grunt work.

But the deeper story there that some people are talking about is that the rider strike and the actor strikes that provided a very convenient time for all the big corporations in Hollywood to have all the right meetings with Silicon Valley and decide who they needed and who they didn't. It's hard to really get a handle on this new jump in technology when you're juggling a thousand other things and all these projects.

But if you can put everything down, the right people can have the right meetings and the whole strike end with some big empty celebration for labor and the union by giving up a small little percent of barely anything in the short term where what was really happening was the long term strat, and the real analysis as to how advanced this tech is and where it can be used. And I just think that's interesting analysis because we know how these games are played.

And we know how these things are framed to the public. And usually, there's something going on beneath the surface and some of it seems to be that kind of stuff, which is relevant to. This episode today. But I will say the plus show in this 1 is very fun and different. We actually got pie 8 involved, and we tried to get some interesting info from it regarding the Covid vaccine, death rates and Ufo.

So if you haven't engaged with these things at all, it kind of is interesting to at least see where they are. The information's is 1 thing, but the voices are another and they are pretty good. It's funny because depending on how distracting they are. Our editor sometimes takes out heavy breaths And the Ai voice has breath that make it sound more natural, and there's just something funny about a software adding in fake breaths and then a human using a software to remove breaths for a podcast.

This is how time has spent these days, but You will have to decide if Alex is on something there or not. I thought the thing about the actual voice was funny because it does kind of sound like what you'd expect Silicon valley to use. That sort of diversity stuff, even for fake voices, It kinda sounded like t pain without the auto tune actually. But Alex picked that voice, so I just looked bad on that 1.

I'm really comfortable with Alex though, so we were both pretty stubborn about our perspective on this stuff. And Alex thinks I'm missing the boat big time. But look, I know there are uses for Ai. I really like the Ai art stuff. I have a friend who wanted to make a weed friendly bay cruise in San Diego, and he used Ai to come up with a good pitch for it, and it did a pretty good job. And there are people out there who will save a lot of time in their 9 to fives by using it.

There's actually a new voice enhancing Ai tool that I'm really impressed with actually that will probably get used in this show from time to time. But the editing of the u and oz and likes and you nose and long pauses. That kind of stuff is still gonna require a human touch. I've listened to shows where they just used Ai to take out pauses, and it sounds really awkward So if you're comfortable with saving time to produce c plus work, it's very useful. Lots of people only do c plus work

anyway. So what's the difference? Obviously, tech does get better, but I don't see it getting good enough in any of my use cases for it to matter too much. I guess I could use it to summarize books, but Again, it's not gonna find that 1 bizarre point that I want to ask a guest about in an interview. That stuff is kind of the secret sauce of Thc. The stuff that requires my own personal discernment it can't be outsourced. If I want a summary of a book, I can read the intro or just the back of it.

I will say though that even just using a typical search function can be an art form, phrasing things correctly, using the right words, etcetera, etcetera. We all know people who are just bad, Internet users and bad Internet search. And savvy people can get what they're looking for much faster. And I think Ai is similar. Just like the art generators, how creative is the human input, that's a huge factor. But even with the Pizza gate coded language

example. So, yeah, the machine admitted, it appears to be coded language in the emails. That example is slightly more interesting than others because it is a large language model program. But did that or would that move anyone's opinion or does it just confirm what we already know? I get that they'll never be a real investigation or any real court case about such things. So we're desperate enough to be excited about a concession from Ai, I guess.

As for the book title portion about it being divine, well, we didn't talk much about that because that's really a dominant conversation about Ai. I will it become conscious. All this sorts of stuff. Well, I've heard what Alex has to say on that, and we are both in agreement that no. It's not gonna become conscious. But it might actually cause some people to realize humans are special and consciousness is a big part of that.

So when a roundabout way, it could be helpful in bringing material back to the spiritual just by more people making that comparison. But really when it comes to this subject, I try to stay open minded? Because what do I know, really? The next step from these Ai art generators are these video generators that are making really compelling video that looks pretty real just from similar prompts.

So I think if someone has a creative idea of a story to tell, They could use these systems to make their pitch or to get started, but I don't know. It's basically a glorified story board, I guess, It's gonna work great for b roll for Youtube comment tate. There are uses, and I think it will disrupt the fiber creative freelancer sort of space. I personally never really like to hurt someone's feelings. So if I have art made for t shirts or something, and it's 80 percent

what I had in my head. I tend to just say, okay Fine. It's good. I don't make them go through a lot of nausea revisions. When I use the Ai art stuff, it doesn't get it right the first time, but I can just keep going and going and going until eventually, I get something maybe closer to 90 95 percent what I had in my head. But, yeah, Alex knows a lot more

about this stuff than me. He should be the 1 to tell anyone if there's something interesting going on here, but I just haven't seen an example that truly moved me yet. But I am very open to a point in the timeline where an Ll does accidentally get access to something top secret or some dark web digital archive, and we might actually learn some stuff from it in situations like that. I guess it's not that the technology is

bad. It's just that the guard rails on it are so strict that I don't see it as much more than a mainstream argument reg and at worst. A digitized mass mk ultra weaponized program. But I also agree with Alex that so many of the fears about Ai being destructive or cor to society or used by the bad people. Well they're kind of ignoring the state of things now and throughout his What's Ai really going to add that isn't already a mess. I brought up my fake document example, and

I think that has merit. But we've always had to contend with fake documents and hoax is I just think there will be a lot more of them, and there'll be a lot more convincing. But in the second hour, even when he asked the Ai if it knew who I was, and it says, oh, yes. The higher side chats is a great podcast. Delve into a wide range of unconventional, suppressed and es esoteric topics well. That's just read right off my website.

When the big machine came for the word conspiracy, I altered the Thc description to replace conspiracy with unconventional and suppressed because they're less loaded terms. But that was a giveaway for me. The Ai basically just did a Google search. On the back end of my website and read the description. It's a nice trick, but I know what's going on here.

But in terms of the interview, I tried to make sure that we talked about the material that Alex had dialogue with the Ais about because it's a way of trying to make everyone even if you don't care about Ai too much, Well, we still talked about cons topics within that framework. But that said, the free book offer is

very generous. I hope some people take him up on that or at least check out some of his podcast at so it's with the Ai models, he's the perfect person to take his show in this sort of direction. And in higher side news, the free plus episode for June was Peter Mark Adams from about 5 years ago talking about the Sol Bus T. It is a true t h see classic. Any free show listeners who are subscribed in a podcast app should see that on the list right before this 1.

Based on the download numbers, these free plus episodes are very popular, who doesn't want something for free, but I hope that some people do convert to plus after realizing, it's a much better experience, and you could have heard this 5 years ago, but, hey, that's on some of you guys. This is just a new strategy for me making my case.

As for the plus people's review of the last episode with Chris K as if there's ever any doubt, 4.8, about as good as it gets, that episode really brought me back to being on a James Shelby downer kick. You're gonna hear that name referenced in a few of the next episodes, but this 1 with Alex sort of completes a string of episodes with friends of the show who have new books out. Rec, Chris and Alex. I love these guys.

I'm happy to do interviews with people I'm familiar with who write good stuff, but the next string of interviews are with people that are much more obscure, who you probably don't know or at least haven't heard recent interviews with. And I think that should excite a lot of listeners out there who maybe didn't like that familiar trend. But I also gotta start saying that if you wanna see some video clips from these episodes check my social media. It's full of

them. I hired a company to make the clips, and they run the tiktok. And pretty much the Instagram, and the Youtube shorts is pretty much all that's left of a once great Youtube channel. But alright. Let's do the meetup up calendar thing and get on with our day. U. Okay. July sixth this weekend. New Buffalo, Michigan at rolling numbers, July eighteenth, Coral tree in La, July 20 fourth, Oak Public house, Eugene Oregon, and also July 20 fourth, corner bakery rec cafe in Pasadena, California.

And that's it. It's looking at a little bear with only 4 events on the calendar and 2 of them being in La. Maybe I overestimate people's desire for community, With like minded locals or maybe summers are just busy, but if you want to go to 1 go to higher side meet dot com and rs Vp or make an event near you. It's all free and opened to everyone. But that's the show. Get Alex's book, check out what he's doing if you're interested in Ai and I'll see you next time.

I've done my part. Your move, trans tyrant, silicon valley sorcerer and artificial ar of her truth your fucking mood. You can try your best, but you won't succeed. In the trans future, we see We'll keep you our you can't sleep. Deck a. It's just 1 chip behind your face. And some parts below the we can replace. Progress leaves no hard to waste. Your powers grow. While you run this loops and videos. Flow. Increase lights inside your head.

Forever to fix you the people that first get it, should have us a massive advantage over people don't have it yet. Well, I guess, it's kind of thing where your productivity would improve, I don't, dramatically like back 10 with it. So you could definitely just, you know, I don't know, they gotta learn and do it money back real fast. Just super part. When do you think you're gonna do? How long will you weigh? Our big dream.

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