Fashionably Haunted

from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists, and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss how and why this series came about in a very personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy. Would you believe it if I told you there is a deep and abiding connection between the fashion world and

the supernatural? Well, you might not, because I didn't, not until I spoke to today's guest, Amana there Now Almana is a former fashion writer and editor and a total fashionista. She's worked at Vogue, l Style, the New York Times, New York Magazine, where she was a founding editor of The Cut blog. She's written for a whole lot of publications, including Yahoo Style, Fashionista, x O Jay, Refinery twenty nine, and for big fashion brands like berged Off, Goodman and

H and M's Ten Years of Style volume. After toiling in the fashion ranks for over fifteen years, she now writes full time in the desert mountains, where she's detoxing from her once glamorous life, and she's the author of a fantastic, hilarious, dark serial killer comedy called Fashion Victim, which was her first novel published a couple of years ago. We had a lot of fun in today's conversation, and I learned a lot about the fashion industry and Almona's

generational ties to GIN. But just a little word of warning, because Almina is out in the rugged wilderness of Arizona, we did have some connection issues here and there, so the audio might sound a little bit spotty and not quite as crystal clear as I would have wished, So sorry about that. But still, we had a fantastic conversation, had a lot of laughs, and also I got some genuinely scary chills. So check it out yourself. My interview with author Almanna the Hi. Almanna, thanks for joining us

this week. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to you. Well, so I've told our listeners um all about your background that you're a former fashion writer editor, and I've told them a little bit about your first book now, um, but I want you to tell them more about your first book, because, first of all, I mean, it's your first novel and it's got some high praise, right, I mean it was, Um it was one of the

best crime in Miss three debuts by Crime Reads. Uh it's I mean, like I saw like a whole half page of all kinds of accolades, which is amazing really for a first book. So congratulations on that, Thank you, thank you. It was when I left the fashion world, I had this idea, I wouldn't it be funny to have a serial killer set in the fashion world and no one takes her seriously or believe she's the killer.

So that was kind of the idea of it. And then I just I have to I have to ask you were you were you thinking about se real killing like people in the industries that will happen to like made you write this book? Oh my god, listen, it was fifteen years of being on a diet, like having to wear high heels. Yes, yes, absolutely, that's tough. There's definitely people I kept in mind. Yeah, yeah, we were you really fun to write. You know, it sounds like a really fun read. I have ordered it, but I

haven't read it yet. Um, so I can't wait to get into it. It It sounds like the kind of thing I'm gonna take like the next time I take a break. But let me ask you. Were you a writer before this or you just kind of went right into it? Yeah? I mean I was. I was an editor slash writer, so mostly I did like blog writing for like like New York Magazine. I launched the Cut blog and I would you know, edit and right on there. And I

would write for l and edit for them. So, you know, like all of places I've I've worked, I was always editing and writing. Um. But I never thought of myself as a novelist. I think, like you know, you you think, oh, though those people get M F A S and IOWA and stuff, and I didn't do that. But then I thought, well, why don't I just write this and see what happens and we'll go from there. And you know kind of

what I did. Well, I mean that says and and uh Fashion Victim was published one ten Yeah right, And but you're working on as sending. I'm working on the next book. So I'm working on a second book. So, Um, After after New York and that in the fashion world, I moved to near Sedona, Arizona, where my father lives, and I decided I wanted to kind of capture the insane weirdness that is hear Um. And so that's the it's a it's a weird cookie place. I mean, stunningly

beautiful because people are a little weird. You know, I'm not gonna lie. It's like crystals mixed with maga hats, you know. And you're it's a bizarre place. Well, you know, I follow you on Twitter and I follow your I follow your posts on Twitter where you're documenting all the wildlife and I'm like, oh my gosh, she's living like in a nat Geo special. I live on the side of a mountain and I have a well and there's a tarantula that hangs outside the front door. He's a

really big guy. So he's a big guy. But they're very friendly and like not friendly, but they don't bother humans. Um. And it's just a complete one eat from my life in New York, like completely, and and why did you decide to do that? It was it was it just to be closer to your father, or you just needed like a cleanse. Yeah, well that's actually I've been in New York for over twenty years, and I I was birked out, you know, I just I hit that point where I didn't want to leave my apartment and I

was like, you know this, this is not healthy. And my mom had passed away and my dad was by himself, and you know, he's in his eighties. So I thought, you know, this is a really good time for me to be out there, so we can keep an eye on him, make sure he's taken care of. And it's pretty fun, a little weird, but fun. I love following your when you put tweet about your interactions with your dad. But I'm trying to remember, and I can't quite remember

when I started following you or why. I know, I was looking for South Asian writers to follow at some point in I don't know, but I feel like I sort of following you because you tweeted something about a gin um, which trobably did you probably did right, And so your second book as stood, I mean, tell tell us about a little bout your second book without giving it all away. So the second book is called Kissmith and hopefully and I'm still finishing it and dealing with

the publishing world and getting it published. But um, it follows different women who are here in Sedona, and also one who happens to be this and she's had a very strange upbringing. Um, not because she's this, but because her you know, her family was just weird. And I feel like that's an important thing. It's like, this is about everyone's family can be weird, regardless of where they're from, you know, And it's really about like finding your place

and finding your people. And at the same time, of course, there's a serial killer because I really enjoy killing people in books. Um, It's a really right way to get your anger and annoyance, how you know. So it's really just so it's following all these women and you're trying to figure out who to murder. It is so you know, all these like scam artists, fake healers are are turning up dead in the desert, and so it's like, who's the killer, what's happening? Um, So that's when I'm I'm

working on now. But there is thank you Well The Gin is gonna be my next book, um, and that one I'm I'm still hammering out the idea. But what it is is it it's this woman who um has a gin and she didn't know it, and so she makes this wish when she's five and you know, her birthday to be and her name is Dunia Um. She wants to be the best Dunia in the world, and Dunia means world. So she what she doesn't realize is

that she's basically made this wish. And as she gets older, she starts getting a Google alerts for other Dunias who are dying all over the world in random, bizarre, not at all seemingly related ways. And that came to me because I've been getting Google alerts for Almanna up theres all over the world who are dying like car accidents, they have been shootings, and it's I've had like three or four and it's so surreal where you're like, oh

my god, I'm sorry, other me like wow. So she now has to try to figure out how to how to make this stop and how she can be the best her and so that's the whole book. And like you know, is she also everyone thinks she's going crazy, you know, So that's that's the idea for that next one that actually started you know what, I want to read all the books. They all sound So that's just

a fantastic idea. And I know you told me you were doing like you're like starting to do like some real research on jin stuff, but you don't really you know, the research is like you know, I'm doing. I did the research obviously for my series. You're gonna do the research for your book. But we grew up also around on all this, and I want to talk about that. So where's your family from, by the way, I feel like we all have. Oh, so, my my father from Lahore.

I mean he was from India, but you know after partitioning, right, was mostly in Lahore. And my mother was from India and then she was in because a very small village. Yeah, it used to be small. It used to be small. Yeah, but they're basically in the northern Punjab region. Yeah. My family is from the similar region, same place. Yeah. Yeah, my dad's Punjabi. My mother's is a Baton and my dad's had the family SOUPI So okay, that's where a

lot of the strangeness has come in into our family. Okay, So let's start there, because I want to know, Like in so in your family growing up, we're jin stories a thing that like we're just kind of like like very common. Was it the kind of thing where kids got together and then they stop stories or no, they were like time stories, like my dad would like tell us these stories about this. Um. He would tell us

the craziest bedtime stories like this. He grew up in a village, and you know when he grew up, and you know, he was born in the thirties, it was a little different. Didn't necessarily grow up with his parents. He grew up with other relatives. You know, it's just kind of loosey goosey, I guess back then. And he had there was a one room. So his great grandfather, uh was a muffie and he would teach to jin Okay, Okay, I'm gonna stop right there, all right, Okay, Well I

gotta back this up. Okay, So you said you said his grandfather was a muffy and for for people who might not be familiar with the terminology, and mufti is basically like a religious teacher, right yeah. Yeah, And it was his great grandfather. But that's important because his grand father's his great grand his grandfather's didn't get the gin. He was supposed to be passed down when his great grandfather died, and he didn't do that because he didn't

think his sons were able to deal with this. So when you say that he had as yeah, when you say he had a school of gin that he taught, Okay, I'm sorry, I gotta ask this question. Was he the only one who could see that's the classroom? Because was there anybody else? Or did you he just go to a classroom and it was like him in an empty room? And that's the big is are they? I think I was just like in their house and there were two male jin that would come and they would do favors

for my grand my great my dad's great grandfather. Um, Like if he went and he couldn't find his wallet, a new wallet would just show up. Or if they were out of butter, butter would just show up outside their door. So it was really strange. And my father grew up with this in that there was one room in the house no one could go into. They went into that and I always, as a child, I thought

he meant it was a pulper guy. I didn't understand quite that it was a gin until like later in life, and I was like, I put it all together, and the only person would go into that room was my father, and so he would keep his toys in there so nobody would invest with them. And that's how he became,

you know, sorry to know the gin himself. So okay, so that room, you're saying, nobody in the else in the family had permission to go in that room, and his great grandfather decided, I'm not gonna pass these gin down but for but your father had some kind of definity, some affinity or ability or openness that allowed him to connect with them. He does, but he but he denies it. So I would say, like twenty years ago he would have been more open, but now he's like, I don't know.

He honestly, it's like, I have no idea what what what they are, what happens, But that was part of my childhood and so that's what he says to me. And so and he has a lot of stories of other people in the family dealing with the gin. And his mother used to um, who he says I remind him of, which is a little scary because she used to talk to the dead um and she always had these horrible headaches, and she would be, I know, I listen, I have the headaches, but I'm not talking to dead

people as far as I know. And so it's like the whole family had these weird talents, let's say, for lack of a better word, UM. So he for him, this was really normal and natural, and then you know, you come to America and it's not. So I think he just sort of stopped believing. Oh did he actually stop believing or did he just And I also know your father, your father, is he a psychologist or a psychiatrist?

He's a he was a psychiatrist. Um. And you know he's really like you know, you know this, he's you gotta be an engineer, lawyer, or a doctor, as you know. So he came to the US as an engineer actually and then became and then went to medical school after we were all born because he realized they're gonna be expensive kids. So he became a shrink. And and sometimes I asked him, like, you know why, like does that impact how you're viewing things? Do you think it was

like an insanity thing or is it real? And he honestly doesn't doesn't know, like he doesn't have the answer to it, and I don't think anyone actually has the answer to that. Well, let me ask you for such a part of our Yeah, well, let yeah, let me ask you this. Um. When you say he doesn't have the answer, I guess my my question is to what question? Like, what are what are some of the experiences that you can share with us that he had that he he

cannot has not been able to answer explain. Um. I think, well, I think a lot of it is his. Um, well, I had an experience that he hasn't been able to explain. Um. But the the story in our family, and I know every family has their own stories about gin. So that's why it's a little difficult to get like research because everyone's stories are different. Um is that the they're supposed to pass on our bloodline and to a man of course. And so I asked myself, well, who has them then?

Like right now, who has the chin? Because let's be real, they're gonna need anyone to be come in to me. I want to hang out with them. I want to I just want to see what they are and um. Once so in the fashion world, you and I touched on this in my fashion book everyone has a psychic, a terror reader, astrologers really just really no fashion world, yes, way totally. Like you go to dinner and they're like, oh, this is my things healer or this is nice psychic

medium and I'm like, how nice to meet you. Great thanks people, you know. So it's all it's really a big part of the fashion world, which I don't think people talk about enough. And there was this one shaman in in New York, in Tribeca who all the fashion girls were going to. And I thought, well, I want to see what she's about, you know, like why not, and maybe she can find this gin, not get rid of it, just find it and tell me where it

might be. So I go see her and I explained to her that, you know, this is what I'm looking for. And she's like, okay, well, I don't know much about your culture, but let's just see she does all these things, like she's spinning on me and you know, rouble whatever, all of it, you know, and it's like it's in a small like treatment room, but you know, she like there's enough space where she can be against the wall and can't come near me, you know what I mean,

Like there's like enough it's about like ten ft. So at one point she started doing something and I swear to god, something started sitting on my chest. And I'm not prone to hallucinations, so I was like, oh, this is really uncomfortable and weird, like I feel like there's something on me and I can't breathe and the woman is across the room, so it's not her. And she starts screaming because she said something's trying to choke her.

And I was just like, you have to say, whatever you did, you just kissed something off, just stop, just don't do anymore. She's like, I'm getting rid of it. It's like, don't get rid of it. Just got goose bumps. I So then, how did that end? What happened anything? Well, the weird thing was is I used to and this

is people are gonna thinking crazy. I used to always feel like there was something around and like I'm on the subway later at night, but I know I'm I'm fine because there's something near me and I can't explain it more than that. But after I went to that lady, that feeling was gone. And that was a weird sensation because I've gotten so used to feeling like oh, I'm gonna be fine because there's some I don't know what it is, but there's something here. But did you always

have that feeling? Did you grow up with that feeling? Yeah? Uh, I don't think I recognize that feeling until I was an adult. But you know, are like my dad would you know. He would make us watch The Exorcist when we were children and buy us crazy magic books and stuff. So we were always really I don't want to say like not witchy because that's more of a Western concept, but you know, more in tune with that part of life,

Like it was just normal. Why I'd be like, yeah, I want this voodoo book and he's like, okay, here, read it, you know, and I'd be like ted reading about voodoo and it was just so normal for us. Um. But he himself has gotten to the point where, you know, be he he's not scared of other realms, but he thinks, is if jin are real, why isn't there a Jin army? Why aren't Why isn't anyone like raising them up to do things? And I do not have an answer to that question. You know, It's like it's like it's a

valid question. I don't know I've actually thought about that. I've thought about that, um and and my my my conclusion is because nobody has Solomon's ring anymore, so you know, he was the only one who was able to really control the Jin. Yeah. Maybe, but I also think that, you know, people are scared because I think what happens for people who actually, um want to summon Gin for

whatever reason or contact Jin. We all know that if if we believe in Jin, if this is like a thing, we also have to accept the fact that we can't really control them. Maybe we could bargain with them, maybe we could ask them to do ourselves. Yeah, and so then maybe there's that they can do whatever they want. Yeah, well, let me ask you, and I think some some yes, go ahead that some members on my mom's side, I think that Jin are evil and they're scared of them.

Whereas I kind of see it as well, they were part of our family. So you know, regardless of whether that they're they're bad, they're they're still part of our family and they need to be recognized and you know, honored in that way. So that's the way I see it as opposed to like I want to summon a genie or something you know, we'll be right back after

the short break. So you said, Um, you told me earlier that your father is a Sufi, and can you, like, can you explain at least how you understand the connection between like that kind of system like a Sufi, which is and for folks aren't familiar, it's kind of like a it's like a mystical I'm some people think of Sufi's mystics, but it's not really, but it's it is

a more spiritual, mystical approach to religion. Um. Yeah, so can you explain to me what you how you understand the connection between that and yeah, yes, and I'll be probably honest. We were never the most religious family. Um. And like my mother was, but you know she she's as typical Bakistani as you could get. But for my dad, it was always about a spiritual connection with God. And

and it's a personal connection. So it's not about necessarily going to a mosue, and it's not necessarily praying five times a day, but it was about just having that connection. Um, and I that's how I feel about things. You know, I'm spiritual. I don't know what religion is the right religion and you know, I just think that if you

have this connection personally, that's great. Um. So we kind of grew up not being as as Muslim as we could have, you know, like my cousins on my mom's side who grew up in the US, we're much more religious than we were. Um, but my dad would drop these weird stories on us. Like, Okay, I was four and I watched the Exorcist because again, my dad's funny that way, and my older brother was like, well, I'm gonna it's a true story. And so you know, for yr oldly mind is blown. You know, I'm like, oh

my god, my sister's gonna get possessed. I'm gonna have to share a room in the Puzuzu holy cow, totally panicking. And my dad says, it's okay, I know how to do exorcisms, and he was dead serious. It was just like, oh, that was a weird thing to say to a four year old, And as a four year old, you actually remember it, you remember that it's stuck with you. Yes,

because I was so scared. I was terrified that my sister would become possessed because we shared a room and I would sleepwalk, and in my sleepwalking I would be watching her in my sleep, like literally standing by her bed, watching her to make sure she wouldn't. It was creepy. We were a creepy family. So what about your siblings? Did your siblings have your siblings have unexplained experiences like you? Um, no,

they're they're more hesitant to dive into things. Um Like, my brother keeps telling me, don't, don't mess with us, don't and I's like, you know, I'm just reading about it, and because I find it interesting, you know, because I think being in the West, you are, you know, in the US, you're surrounded by the superstitions and and and the mysticism that we have here, which is you know, witches and a Native Americans and druids and whatever. But

what's laughing at our stories? And so I for me, it's really interesting to dive into this and and and find these stories because it's like, oh, well this makes sense to me and this is a part of who I am. And it's just I don't know, it's a weird way to feel more complete, I would say, but my brother and sister don't. Although I think my sister has a ghost, but you know it, Okay, Why why do you think your sister has a ghost. I'm sorry, I gotta follow that up. So my I threw, I've

seen a feason on my niece. And my nieces is three and adorable, adorable kids, and she told my sister that there's a man over there and she's talking to and so my sister said, oh, well, is it a good person? And she said no, And so we were like, well, maybe that's just her being a little a little weird. But then my sister keeps waking up in the middle of the night hearing somebody call mom and it's not her kids. And sometimes she's awake when it happens, because

I was like, maybe you're dreaming. Maybe it's sleep paralysis, you know, what are the Maybe it's your neighbors, Maybe it's a cat outside making a weird noise. We've gone through all of the possibilities. And so she would just wake up and hear someone saying Mom, or she'll be you know, reading a book and somebody else mom, and it's not kids at all. So it's been a little weird. Yeah,

that's actually terrifying to me. I'm terrified. So I know, I know, I mean, I've been in that health Yeah, so I said, I've been in her own some I didn't sends anything off? But never know? Is she also does she also live in where you are right now out in Arizona? No, she lives in Port Worth? Okay, do you think that maybe let me as see this Texan? Yeah? What what? What? How do you feel about? Like? Um?

The difference between like the regions? I mean, are people moren't likely to encounter like gin or have these kind of experiences in a place like New York or a place like where you are now, which is remote and wild and and feels a little hoty definitely a little Um. I think that people would more likely experience it in the Arab and Indian regions, to be honest, because that's the home of these stories. Um. Do I think I could feel something here? Yeah? Listen, it's a Dumas beard.

There's like I don't and unfortunately I don't know if it's just a marketing gammick for tourism or if it's real. Um. But there's the vortexes here, which are energy war taxes and so in the Red Rocks, and so you go there and you're supposed to feel things. Um, and there's just a high confluence of spiritual things here in theory. Um have you have you experienced? And yeah, not the vor text itself, but sometimes like in our host as you know, it feels good, good vibes whatever. Like I'm

not scared of my house. I'm more scared of you know. Um like that movie The Strangers when you're out in the middle of nowhere and then there's crazy people outside that scares me more than like ghosts. But like I'll be washing dishes and all of a sudden, you know, right next to me, I'll hear someone speaking Spanish and then it's gone, and it's almost like it's like just passing through. And that might have been when you follow me, because I believe about that. I was like, this is

this is happening. It's really strange, but it wasn't scary the same times, you know, you know what I mean. So it's it's almost like this whole area is just kind of funky that way. Okay, maybe it's a like a little a portal, right, like where certain worlds can be. I mean, I'm not the Yeah, and there's something I mean, every time I try to google it, I get some weird websites talking about Leylands, and I don't know any of that stuff. You know, maybe I have no idea.

My I honestly cannot say one way or the other. Um, do I think people here might be a little sensitive to things? Yeah? Sure, you know, maybe they flocked here for that reason, right, because they're seeking something. You're already predisposed to something, right, Yeah, let me ask you this exactly? Can you can you share with us maybe one of the I mean, I would think as a four year old, it's a little frightening to have your father say, oh,

no worries, I'm an exorcist. But but were there any other stories your father told you or or drop little hants or bombs are just kind of surprised you with that really really freak you out? Yeah? There, Well, his his mother seeing day people freaked me out. But um, the men in the family were the exorcists and the women were palm readers. And as you know, you're not supposed to read fortunes. Um in Islam could do it, and so yes, um, and so I remember it was

it was my stepgrandmother. Um. She would read my palm um a lot, which always unnerked me. But then I started being able to do it, and I had this knack and I kind of call it my kids in the Hall sketch talent, and that I can read someone's palm and know their entire past and I can pinpoint things that happened to them that there's no way I should have known that, but it's it's like it's on

your hands. Um So, my dad was really excited when I started, you know, learning palmistry and like getting it. I don't. I don't do it often anymore because honestly, it's it's really entiring and I don't really want to know that much about people. Um So, it's actually it actually like his emotionally draining for you or physically draining for you. Yeah, oh yeah, I get I can do like one and then you know, I got a lot down. Um But my dad and I always wondered if it

was just him. He used to tell us this lullaby about this woman who had ten thousand needles in her eye, and that was, you know, our bedtime stories. And to this day, I'm like, you're gonna come from Like I ordered a book of Punjabi folk tales trying to find this story because I and he doesn't quite remember where it's from. He's like, oh, it's just a thing, you know, we all know these songs. Wait, do you remember do you remember the song? Do you remember it? Allowing now?

Was her name was dol football Um, which is you know football means and on your father's side, and and she was like pained or something, and then there were needles in her eyes. And this was supposed to make me go to sleep. I'm so sorry. No, I never had I never had a chance to be normal. I'm sorry you have to find this lullaby. I've never heard this. But to be fair, my parents were like, go to sleep. You don't get lullabies or but good night books or whatever,

just go to bed. And we didn't get any of that. So yeah, we got those. And then on the flip side, my mother would be like seeing a super colma, which I said to you, I had, I forgot what it was. And it's it's not a secret, it's just you know, a verse in the Koran. But my my mother's family called it the secret. And you have to you know, clap three times and footmar which is which is like kind of blowing wind out three fines to keep the bad juju away, So she would make us do that often,

especially after my my dad would tell a story. Oh my gosh, she had to ward off the evil. But he was like bringing bringing in um. Okay, if you ever, if you ever figure out what that lullaby was, I have to hear it, because I just have to hear it. Um. So let you never record him singing it. If he remembers, Oh wow, what was on somebody else in the family. You think your siblings might remember how how the tune

went or anything. No, my sister, My sister remembers it was just really bizarre, okay, And we were like, why would you why would you say this? Two kids? So if you don't remember the way it went, so I'm

gonna let me ask you this. Did you have you ever are yourself You seem like you're really open to the to the not open to the idea that you believe, you believe in gin, that they there are a gin that are connected, that their gin that are connected to your family, and that you are open to being like receiving them in some way or or you're not scared of them. So have you ever actually actively tried to connect with them? Because I would not know what I'm doing.

I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like I one I haven't found, Um, I find out a Western text, you know, like why white writers and how to how to conjure them? That's that's not what I want. Um. I think for me, I would have want somebody from our culture who knows how to do it. But I'm also not the most religious person, and I feel like jin are so connected to our religion, even but even though some books I'm reading that they predate the religion,

that they become part of the religion. So I feel like in order to summon them or conjure or whatever you want to call it, I feel like you have to have that religious component a little bit. Is that only so you so you feel more protected? Like? Is that why? I think? It's also so I don't screw something up, you know, Like I just I just don't think that I have that talent and to be perfectly honest, um,

But I do feel like there's more I don't. My philosophy on all the spiritual stuff is that there are things that we can't explain and maybe one day we'll all have it figured out, you know, and and science will be like, yes, this is weird dimensional stuff whatever. UM, But you know, I've had experiences with ghosts and I've had experiences with with UM. This is when it sounds crazy. There was a demon in my old apartment building, and

I cannot believe. I cannot believe you're bringing up I can't believe you're bringing up the demon in your apartment building. This late into the conversation, but let's hear the story. Well, first of all, I've totally I've totally tweeted this story. So I lived, you know, on Upper East Side eighty nine. And first the apartment was great, was like a studio, but the closet was in the middle, so it was

kind of separated the bed from rest. And I sleepwalk, granted, but I mean I sleepwalk a couple of times a year now, it's not like a weekly thing. I was sleepwalking every single night. Every night I would wake up either opening my closet trying to find something that shouldn't be there, or standing in the living room living area being like, something's here, it shouldn't be here. I did every single night for like weeks, and I made a joke some friends, I have a closet monster. And my

dog started. Um, she started pinning her ears back at night and staring at things on the wall that weren't there, like there was no bug, there was nothing, and I'm just like watching her and I got so freaked out I had to put a blanket over her house. She would and she would do this every single day. And so now back to the whole fashion world things. This isn't while I was still in fashion. This is one of the those healers that I would go to dinner with with PR people. He called me out of the

blue one day at you know, I'm at work. My phone rings my cellphone and he says, I don't know if you remember me. We went to dinner with this PR person six months ago. My spirit guides are telling me I have to get into your apartment. There's something there. And I dropped my phone. I was like, all right, I'm done. Like what So he came over and um, he was like, I can't even explain what he did. He does like energetic feng shway, and honestly, I don't know what that is. I don't know how it applies

beyond regular peng shway. Um, but he was like, okay, there's something this apartment, but it's coming from another person, and it's coming, um three year bathroom, And I kind of lost my mind because the night before he came, I had this dream that if I went into the bathroom and left the lights off, it took a picture in the mirror with a flash on my camera on my phone, I would see whatever I wanted to what it was behind me. And I didn't do that in

real life. I didn't wake up and do it. I thought no. So when he said it's coming in from the bathroom, I was like, Okay, maybe he's right. So he does all these weird things. Um, you know, like he was using commusiology, which is so bizarre, Like he would ask you a question and the way he your arm would move with him would be yes or no, you were you're incapable of lying. It's the honestly, it's

the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced. So after he was done, and you know, everything felt a little bit lighter in the house an apartment, he said, wait, there's a message from your from your your dead mother here And I was like all right, and he's like it's on your bookshelf. Now my books. I'm I'm not an organized person. They're like half hazard. They're not color coordinated

or anything, right, They're just piled up. And so he would use my arms, like gets on this shelf, yes or no, and so I like raising my arm yes or no. He could tell by the resistance which where it was. And he found this book and it's a Camle book. I don't elber Kamer coming. I don't remember reading.

I know I did back in from college. And he finds the page using my arms at this page or it's an after this page and whatever, and he finds the line and he looks at me and he says, I'm sorry, but this is what you're supposed to say. And the line said, yes, it would be a pleasure to see my mother again. And I was just like, I don't know how he did that. I just I don't. I can't. I have no logical explanation for that, because there's just no way. There's absolutely like, there's no way

he could say, oh, yeah, it's not that spine. I know there's a line in there, you know, I guess. But it was so randad and it wasn't even like the plague or the strangers. It was a more obscure one that people don't know. So it was really a strange experience for me because I just I knew something was around me that wasn't good and that my mom sometimes popped. I would say, Hi, it's like dd um, yeah, I've had to become more open. I was gonna ask that,

how did you know it was a demon? Only because like you're in your because you had a sense of dread, or because this guy told you it was Yeah, I had a sense of dread. And then when he looked at me, he said the way he's like, the way I'm seeing this is um is uh? I think it was dark angle arch angel Michael babbling a demon. It was like, so that's the vision I'm seeing that. It's because I was like, please be a ghosts, please be a ghost. It's easy to get rid of ghosts, but

you know, I saw my exorcist. I know how hard it is to get rid of the big d's, so it's like, please don't say the D word. And then he said it. I was like, okay, okay, but it wasn't. It was attached to somebody else in my building, So you know, I totally moved. I was like Nope, nope, we're done. I don't need to stay in as an art building. There's some weird juju here. I don't I don't know what it is. I don't want to, but

I'm out, and so I moved away and it's much better. Wow, talking that, I gotta go back and find that Twitter threat about that. I totally missed that. I don't think I saw that at all, But that is um, that's that's yeah, that's not it to me. Well, it's actually it was weird. It's one of those things where you're like, am I going crazy? You know? And somebody else you know.

I'm pretty sure. I don't think I've met anybody in my life who hasn't had some experience that they cannot explain, something like a like a dream that was a premonition, or just something like everybody has something, right, So I think it's you have to be like an incredibly weirdly arrogant person to think I know everything there is to know there's nothing there that we don't know, Like sciences discovered everything, and human beings can see and hear everything.

I don't know anybody who actually believes that, even the biggest skeptics are like, well, I mean, look, you don't know which happens after you die, so there's always an unknown, right, there's always the end. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, like I said, maybe an hundred years, science will will figure out it's a dimensional thing. I don't know. I have no idea, but right look, science tell has told us that there

are dimensions. We know there's different dimensions. And just recently did you see that the report that came out of like the Pentagon where they were like navy air like navy uh pilots. That confirms he Look, there is something out there, and that's why I'm talking to you. That's why we're doing the show. Here's something we are. The universe is vast. We don't know what's out there like or or what's in our closet and under our beds. It's it's your arrogance. Yeah all right, well I should

thank you so much. I'm gonna wrap up here, but I want um, I want folks to know how they can find you online if they want to continue to follow your your your adventures in Sedona and also your drinks. Yeah, once you handle I'm on Twitter. Uh drama d r R drama. That's three rs D R R R A M I N A has been little dramatic. Um, I will always I'm always happy to talk about this weird stuff, you know, because, uh, you know, I'm not going to

judge somebody else for believing in it. And that's one of the things that I want to include in the second book is I, if you love crystals, that's amazing. I personally don't. They're pretty. I don't feel anything with them. But I'm not gonna did I lose you? Sorry, I'm not gonna make fun of anybody for having a belief like that, you know. Um. So to me, like I, I love tarot cards because they are weirdly, my chick.

I have a terrat deck that I use and they're um and even my friends and my sister are like this. These are ridiculously apt and kind of really almost have a sense of humor about situations. And so the more I've used them, the more I'm like, ah, this is getting weird, you know. So like the whole COVID, Like I predicted somebody having COVID in our family and I didn't, you know, realize what it was until after and my sister mentioned it to me, and I was like, oh

my god, well, you're right. I thought it was gonna be somebody else and that you know, it ended up being this one person in our family. So there's there are things that have come true that I'm like, No, that's weird. You know, what are you gonna do? I think I'm gonna that that you the veil for some people as thinner, and the veil for you as thinner between between what we can see and what we can't see.

And I have a feeling and I'm gonna be actually really interested to see continue to talk to me about this um offline and about like as you continue to research a jin stuff because you know, I'm neck deep, man, I'm I'm neck deep in that stuff, every rabbit hole you can believe. So I think it's gonna be a fun journey for you. I love the gym stuff. Yeah, And I think as long as we approach it without fear and just more of like I want to learn, I think that's the right approach. Thanks for joining us

this week. You can find out more about Amina's work, her amazing book, Fashion Victim, and everything else she's working on by going to her website. It's Amina After That's spelled a M I N A A k h t A R dot work, and like she said, you can follow her on Twitter. Her handle is at D three rs d r r R and then her first name, Amina d r r R Amina Drameda. Love it. I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.

Now there are as many people in the world with jin stories as there are gin, so if you have one you'd like to share, make sure to email it to me at the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com. That's the Hidden Gin. Th h E H I D d N d j I n n at gmail dot com. And until next time, remember we are not alone. The Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and

Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted by Robbiah Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Our theme song was created by Patrick Quartetz. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.