Why Are Adult Friendships So Hard to Keep? (Ft. Sarah Grynberg)

with it. And I knew from really that young that I wanted to be in entertainment and I wanted to do something in that area, and it was acting. At first, that really was the thing I wanted to do, and I did drama all during school, went onto university to study film as well as marketing and a few other things. Got an agent, was always in all the plays and stuff, and then an acting teacher said to me, you know, Sarah, ninety nine percent of actors are unemployed. If you think

about doing this full time, you should think again. And my dream wasn't kind of crushed in that instant, but it made me go, Okay, there's some other stuff I need to do. And so I fell into marketing and then a bit of pr and I ended up many years later getting the job at one of the biggest radio stations in Australia, and I was doing promotions and then after a short period of time, I started producing, and from the external point of view, I started having

everything go for me. I landed this amazing job in Breakfast radio as a producer. I was at the time earning more money than I ever had. And you know, as you guys would know, the Breakfast show is like the creme de la creme of all the radio shows. So I was like, Wow, I've got this amazing, amazing job.

but the rest of the crew were in Sydney. It was really it was the first time they've tried that out, and they've done it many times since, so but you know, when you try something out, there's always teething issues when you're the first at anything. But they did it very well. So, as I said, everything on the external looked perfect, and I had never really done much internal work, and after a short period of time of working on that show, I became utterly exhausted. And I'm talking like I did

not know what day we were out. I wouldn't even be able to tell you, you know, what my kids were doing for extracurricular activities or anything like that. I was so burnt out and absolutely miserable. And I had a two and a four year old at the time, and I was waking up at three am, five mornings a week, and it was just exhausting. And when you're a radio producer for a breakfast show, you need to know what's

going on in the news. You need to know what's going on in entertainment, you need to know what's going on in sport. So it's not like you just work, okay, five am or four am, whatever it is, till you know two o'clock in the afternoon.

I got the flu and I was so unwell. And it's interesting how the brain works, where it takes a snap shot of the worst moments of your life and the best moments of your life between that you can barely remember a thing like I can barely remember what I did on the weekend, but I can remember this moment and I was on my couch and I was just exhausted and broken, and I remember thinking to myself, how did I get like this? But also what I remember thinking is I need to do something about it.

And I honestly believe that in life, we're given situations and it's our choice where we go with them. And I don't know exactly what it was, but I remember thinking I need to change my life, and I swung myself into personal development work and started reading every book under the sun about the mind body connection, about psychology, about how the brain works. And I started in that instance, and for the weeks and months after completely changing my life and.

about the law of attraction. It was fascinating and I soaked up every single thing I was learning. And this is the big thing too, And I'm sure Cam and Ellie you guys might have experienced this. What was different was I wasn't just reading the text or listening to the podcast. I was absolutely living and embodying everything I was learning and that's why I started changing and my life started changing. So, as you mentioned, Alie, my job, I left the job and I got this amazing job

in podcasting. And at the time, podcasting was in its infancy, so it wasn't what it is now, where like everyone wants to do a podcast or produce a podcast. I was like, oh, I'm not sure about podcasting, but this is the job that's offered to me, I'll take it. And after a short period of time, my life really

started flourishing. And that's when I thought, well, why wouldn't I do a podcast, my podcast A Life of Greatness to teach people what I had learned, because I just couldn't believe that this personal development work and working on yourself made such a difference.

the best person to talk about it. So I think it's funny, you know, because I had all those other jobs, as I spoke to you about, and it wasn't a clear laying between Okay, me wanting to be in entertainment and then getting there, but you know what happened. Everything led me to this point. So I had the background in booking guests, PR, contacts, everything, So when it came to my own podcast, I was the best at getting

guests because I had the background in it. I had dealt with all these agents before I knew what I was doing. I knew how to market, I knew how to PR because that was my background and I had produced for years. So as the podcast started, I was already working for a very strong base just because I had all that knowledge. So there was a part of me Ali that really, if I'm going to be honest, I knew the podcast was going to do well. I remember pressing, you know, go on this video that we

put I think on the time. It was like Instagram and Facebook, and I was like, this is it. It was the trailer, and I'm like, this is this podcast is going to do well? And it just did, and it continues to get amazing guests, and we've built up a really big name in America, which has been great because you know, they obviously have a lot of the world leaders there in a lot of the personal development space.

So you know, it's funny a lot of people you know, are well known for being actors or thought leaders in their area and they start a podcast. For me, I was just a producer starting a podcast who had this knowledge, and it's the podcast that has catapulted me onto doing all these other amazing things. So I am just so grateful for this beautiful podcast I have.

But that wasn't always your way, was it. I mean that this has been a learned thing.

It's like a thrill for me. And she said, you know, you just got to send so many out that you forget who you've sent them to, and you just you build up this confidence because people will say yes, people will say no, but if you just keep going in a mass way, there are going to be yeses along the way too, And so you build this thick skin.

I mean, you guys would have it from being in the acting world, where you're going to auditions and you get told no. When the first few nos is like, oh my god, they don't like me, and that other person is better than me, and why are they better than me? Is it because of data DA and your mind goes crazy. But then after a while, the more you do something, the more that you really don't care, right, you know. I mean putting requests out now is like I couldn't care less, and I know in my mind

most of the time they will come on. It's just about am I getting to the right person to get that person? Yeah, they also know that sometimes it takes a while. So for example, oh god, there's been so many of those big names where you might put a request out and you're just a year later it comes through, but you're checking in every so often. And really you learn this from producing a nose, not a no, till

you've hit the right person right. You know, you could be you could go through a marketing person and they say no, but you think, really does the talent know about this? And then you go another way and it's ends up being like this fun game after a while.

unless you follow it through. Right that you have to change your eating habits to be able to achieve what you want to And that's like anything in life, right. So I knew that my old personality and not my values and things like that, that's completely stayed the same. But I knew that I needed to make these changes in my life to be able to move forward on a different path. And part of that, as you mentioned ALI,

is relationships. And I knew as well that there were old relationships that I had of people that I did love that were not serving me anymore, and I wasn't serving them. And I knew in my new self the things that I wanted to do. I was very conscious. I have a chapter on conscious awareness and the idea that we need to be conscious of our thoughts that we think, our actions, and the words that we say

to be able to make change. Right, So if we're worrying the whole time, we're not going to be able to change that unless we realize that we're worrying, and then I go through ways to do that. But the same as I mentioned is for words. And I knew that I had friends that maybe didn't talk about the things or they weren't aligned with my new even though some of my old values were the same my new values in the sense of I didn't want to gossip anymore. I didn't want to kind of be in that more

sort of negative energy. So I needed to move on from some certain people. And I think a lot of people find this quite challenging, but I knew moving on would open me up to other people, and that's exactly what happened. And when I decided to I didn't have conversations with these people about it, and as I mentioned earlier, I wasn't serving them as much as they were not serving me. So it was just a gradual kind of moving away from each other. And when I did that,

it was very freeing. It was so it just felt like this is the right move to make, and I met so many beautiful people that then came into my life, meeting me where I was at, and I do that even now, I was thinking there are a few people in my life where I might see a side of them where I'm like, you know what, I'm not sure that that's for me. I don't want anyone in my life that if you get a whiff of jealousy or a whiff that they're not supporting you in your endeavors.

I'm just not interested in hanging around people like that. And I have such a beautiful group of friends, new friends, old friends who support me in the good times and

the bad times. I couldn't be happier. But I know that is challenging for a lot of people, and I've coached a lot of people through that, because even if it's a job or a relationship from a love perspective where you really feel like that person is not aligning with where you're going in your life and who you want to be, you have to have a serious think to yourself of if you want to move on with them, and that can be really, really hard.

the river of change, things are hard. But when we hold it onto the known, which is the past, then we're never going to be able to move forward into the unknown. And the unknown is the field of all opportunities. I said, you just need to keep on going and you'll meet your people. So to answer your question, CAM, what I say to people is this, are you serving these people? Are you your best self when you're around them? Are they serving you? Do you feel good when you

walk away from them? And you know, inevitably if they asking the question, they won't because otherwise it wouldn't be asking it. And then I say to people, will have a really big think about if you want to continue with them in your life. And if it is from fear, then is that a good enough reason to have someone in your life because you're worried that you might not meet anyone else? I mean, that's just asking for misery, right,

And again it's going into that river of change. You don't know what's on the other side because it's the unknown. But if you give up something, then you've got that whole, as I mentioned, field of opportunity, but you won't know it's there if you're holding on to that old friend, that old partner, which is in the known. I mean, it's worked for me many a time where I've moved into that new area where I don't know what's going to happen, and everything beautiful has been on the other side.

But it does take time and it is scary, but you have to want to change enough to be able to do it. And you see all the people, like I see all the people that have come on my podcast, ninety percent of them have had some dark night of the soul story. And when we go through those hard times, that's the touchstone of growth. We can choose to grow from them or we can choose not to. And usually if they're on my podcast, they've grown from them, right they're staying there. They're not coming on the.

ever ever going to be rude. But and it's not this doesn't this happens rarely, but sometimes there are certain people that are so toxic and so nasty that it's like I cannot just pretend to be okay with this person and just be like, yeah, that's fine. Where I get really repelled by that now and it's and it's it's something that I really loved being able to take care of myself and just go, yeah, I'm just not

going to go to that. I'm just not I'm not going to go to that event or I'm not going to go spend time, you know anymore, Like I just there's I would rather be at home with a book than do that. Is that what you would refer to the quiet knowing that you're talking about you reference that quiet knowing.

feel uncomfortable around it. I mean, I haven't now sometimes where if my kids are going to a friend's house and I don't really know the parents well, or i've met one, and I feel very uncomfortable around them, and I don't know why. And I think this is just a mismatch of energy, right, that there's something about them and me it's just not meshing. And that's okay because we don't need to be friends. It's our kids that are friends. But I am very conscious to that mismatch

of energy. And I think if anyone's feeling that in their life with a friend, then they really need to consider as this is someone I want to spend time with, because if you're not feeling good around the people that are supposed to be your friends, would you really call them friends?

to it. You know, those are the sort of people I want to hang around, and I want to be like that to my friends as well.

great around each other. Maybe we should spend some time apart, and if we're meant to come together again, then we will. You know, there's a reason season lifetime with friendships, right, And I've had friendships where they've started and I thought this person's going to be in my life forever, and then they're not in my life forever. And there is lot of sadness that comes with that, like a morning almost, like when you have a relationship breakup, there is that sadness.

But when you can just be accepting that people come in and out of your life, then it makes everything so much better. I think also, if you're not that close with them and you feel like it's all right to just gradually move apart, then that's okay too. But if you really feel that not having a conversation is going to very much upset them, you don't want to

do that. If they've been a good friend in your life and you do want to say something to them, but it's never one sided, Like I wouldn't be going in there saying you make me feel like this, and I don't think you're this or whatever it is. It's a two way thing. You're not giving to them as much as they're not giving to you, and that's nicer on them too, So it's not so much that you're

attacking that person. And then, as I mentioned, I promise you, once you've you know, laid to rest those relationships, you will see these new relationships come into your life, because that's what happens.

friend who names doctor Rebecca Ray. She's been on the show a couple of times, and I remember having a conversation with her because I just had a friend friendship breakup and it was really really hard, and she just talked about how and you know, I mean, I'm sure people have heard that sort of analogy before, Like you know, where you place your friendships, like some friends, For some of the friends are your intimate friends that you share everything with, and then you the circle goes wider and

like they're your friends that you just catch up with every now and again, and you talk about the kids, you know, you talk about you know, what's going on in the world, and then there's the next like so you expect when you go out like a target practice almost in the sense and like the inner ones, and maybe there's only one person that's at one friend or maybe there's another. But I remember her saying to me, she's like, yeah, she's not your she's not that inner

friend anymore. She's moved to the outer edge. So you can still say hi to her, like it's it's fine. And when she kind of placed it like that in my mind because I didn't quite know what to do with myself with it, She's like, yeah, she's someone that if you bump into it's not going to be mean or nasty or horrible, but it's just she's no longer there for you because of what's gone on. And it made sense to me.

them less. They might come into your life again later on in life, and that's absolutely okay. But I don't think we have time for that many people. I mean, honestly, I know, to you know, talk to someone multiple times a day like we did when we were young, you just don't. And that's absolutely okay. I mean, I had a girlfriend call me the other day, and she's an old, old friend and I don't speak to her as much, but I adore her. She's not into what I'm into,

but she called me because she wanted fashion advice. Is this something I often talk about? Not at all, But I do have an interest in that area, and I take that friendship for what it is. Does it have the meat and substance of some of the others. Maybe not. But I still love her and I don't look at her. I don't need her to change because I have, do you know what I mean. I'm accepting her so how she's always been and that's okay. But we meet people where they're at yeah.

like ghosting in a sense. This person has never been able to have closure that you've ghosted, so you have gone on to live your life knowing exactly why you've ghosted them. But this poor person has no idea what they've done. Is they're thinking about it, probably a lot of the time, ruminating over all these things that they have no idea if they're true or not. It's very nasty. So if you're the ghost you need to really think about the consequences of your actions. It's a horrible thing

to do. And if you're someone that has been ghosted, then I would really just take in this idea of feeling out as upset as you are, of not knowing what's going on. I'm assuming you've tried to contact them on multiple occasions, just knowing, Okay, there's nothing I can do in this situation. Radical acceptance of it. This person has gone, you know, to do whatever it is. I've tried to show up as the best person possible to reach out to them, to try and close it off.

That hasn't happened. But I can go to sleep knowing that I've tried my hardest and now with this radical acceptance, I will move on with my life. Because I say this actually to do with thought patterns. When people are ruminating a lot. You know, you challenge the thought ninety percent of the time. Do you know if the thought is true? No, I don't know for sure. Usually, then if you can do something about it, I say, do

something about it. And in this situation, if you can't do anything about it, you've tried, then you go into the radical acceptance because once you're in acceptance of something, it allows them to move on. So the fact that this person hasn't given you an answer means that, okay, you leave it at that, and then you just have to give that answer yourself. I've tried the best I can and that's all I can do. And now I will turn my mind from it and I will go on to live my greatest life lovely.

You know, what are you giving to them? As well? A friendship a love relationship, it goes both ways, so you have to be accountable for you as well. So once you are and you feel their equalities or things that you still want to connect with the person on, then have that big conversation with them. And a lot

of the times those conversations can be scary, right. A lot of people don't like to be in conversations with others where they have to open themselves up and be very vulnerable about how they feel because when they're vulnerable, they're letting their guard down and everyone has an ego

when that can be hard. But if this is a friendship worth saving, as I said, because there are things within it that you think you could still work on and will add value to each other, then you need to be vulnerable and have that conversation and be open with them because again that line for change to occur, there needs to be change, and if you think something's going wrong in it, then you need to have the conversation about how you two can change it together and

if the other person is accepting of that, then you know it's a friendship worth If they're not going to budge, then maybe then it's when you're given your answer and this is not a one way, you know, cited friendship, and so then you make your decision.

or whatever it is, it's a beautiful thing. And being really open with the person about what you've been doing in there in your life, listening to them. This is actually a big thing that I talk about in the book is listening, right, And I think for any relationship to work, you have to listen. And I noticed that I became very good at listening because of my job interviewing people, but I was genuinely very interested too. I'm very interested in people's stories, and that goes with friendships

as well. The worst sort of friendships are the ones where you feel like you're there and just listening to everything they're doing and haven't said one thing about yourself. You feel like they're not interested, right, So when you're really showing up for a friend, you've got to take the time to listen to them. And it doesn't even mean that you have to say much back, but when they can see that you're there and you're listening to them, that is so valuable. So I would say, you know,

make contact whenever you guys can. If it's a date you have to put in the diary, even like let's have a FaceTime call on this date, do it. If you're able to meet them for coffee, sure, if you have a partner, you're able to get your partners involved and go out for dinner, that's an absolutely beautiful thing as well. There might be hobbies that you both enjoy you know, I know a girlfriend of mine and I when the comedy festival's on, it's our thing. We'll always

go and see a couple of shows. Things like that. Like, these are things that can bond you together. I mean, I know for a lot of other friends of mine, we are into doing a lot of personal development work. If there are talks that people are giving, we'll go together and we'll have dinner before and then we'll go see the show. There are so many things if you

have shared values that you can connect on. And I would say even people that do book clubs and things like that, that's a beautiful way of getting friends together, you know, coming up with these ideas and then inviting people along. It starts community and it bonds you, right, It bonds you in a way that is not talking about other people. So I'd really like for people that

are struggling. It sounds so simplistic, but it's very It works. Well, write a list of the things that you enjoy and things that you could do with your friends if they enjoy them as well, and then let it go from there. And it's I mean, it's honestly very simple. But these are ways that we bond together. Over shared things that we enjoy.

We're in our forties, we're in our fifties. How do we make friends?

with another friend. So we had had a zoom call and then we met for dinner, and then she introduced me to her friends. And then I had a dinner with all these people I had never met before, and then some of us got along so well, and then I had li coffees with the ones that we got along. One invited me to a gym class in it. I thought after that truth, I thought, God, it's not that hard to make friends if you're meeting people with shared values,

which we all had. And I know when you're overseas it can be easier and you're the novelty person that's come from Australia to America and all of that. But if you're at home and you're wondering this and you're thinking, I really do want to make some new friends, then I would sign up to things, right. So if it's some sort of yoga class or meditation class, if that's the stuff you're into, try new sport, if you're interested

in tennis or whatever. Try and do things where there are groups of people together, like you mentioned earlier, like a book club that we discussed. That is a perfect way. But you need to put yourself out there and again, it goes back to if you put yourself out there, you might get some people that don't want to go for the coffee or oh, they don't want to take the relationship any further than the tennis court, and that's okay because they're not your people. If they were your people,

they would have said yes. And you think about the people that you've said no to too, or you're not interested in going out with, and that's okay. But you need to get your ego away and you just need to put yourself out there. It goes back to the start of our conversation about getting guests on the podcast. I could have had no one because I never wanted anyone to say no and just played really safe, right and just had my friends on. But I knew that

that's not what I wanted. And the saying goes with relationships. If it's a love relationship or if it's a friendship relationship, you need to put yourself out there, and you need to know that you're going to get some people that say no, but that's okay because there'll be a heap of people that say yes too.