Welcome to the heart of it. We are recording on gaddigle Land High. Sweetheart, Hello you ready for this?
I am very ready.
I am so excited. These gentlemen are in the room with us, which is fantastic. Jens Rada also known as Skank Sinatra and their partner Lockey, also.
Known as I love this name. I have Rose Bud I.
A rose, but a trady by day, a drag queen by night, whose love story began during one of Melbourne's many lockdowns.
Indeed so.
Originally connecting over Zoom with the intention of collaborating artistically, the two quickly discovered a deeper spark. Both trained in musical theater, live singing drag artists and a love for jazz and cabaret, YenS and Locke found themselves falling into something that was equal parts creative partnership and unexpected romance.
Since then, their love has taken them around the world. They've co created and performed multiple shows together, including Madam Martha's Parisian Cabaret, winner of the Best Cabaret in Melbourne's Fringe in twenty twenty four. That is Huge, yep, that is huge, and The Cabaret Hour winner of Best Variety Show at the Adelaide Fringe. Yo, huge, welcome, Yen and Lockie.
Hi, Hi guys, Hello, it's good to be here.
Yeah. Are you still in the glow of all these winning awards.
Honestly, it's been a whirlwind and I feel like we haven't even stopped. It's just been go, go go. But you know that that hustle never stops until it does. And we're trying to plan the holiday, which has been in the making for I don't know a year, but we never find a way to squeeze it in.
Was that would that be an overseas holiday or a local one?
Well, we're going to Edinburgh Fringe. So we're trying to make sure that we have at least a week where we have no gigs planned. There's one trying to creep in, you know, in the UK. We want to drive up from London to Edinburgh over a week, but then you know, something has popped up. We're like, no, no, no, let's just enjoy the hills of you know, the UK and.
Just it is gorgeous. That's we just went, well, we just went to Scotland. We talked about our Scottish trip.
Because like it was yesterday is the.
Best Edinard is so fat.
We we took a train from London to Edinburgh and then we kind of did a did a circuit, went up to Isle of Sky, we went to Lockness where else did it.
And then we went up off the top to Inverness and down around around the coast around St Andrews.
But you must make time to travel around.
I feel like I need a photo with the lock news good luck with that.
The locks are there, the Loch Loman, Locknes, Isle of Sky.
Yeah, you can get to Island of Sky.
There's a river there called River d and our son's name is river and we often call him river De because he's River Dado.
And it was that was you know, it's the small thing.
Nice Ali also she was the one that curated the journey. So we started off in sort of nice airbnbs and then we ended up in the penultimate night of the actual road trip, we're in a gatehouse. It was sixteenth century gatehouse over a river. Staying in there that just felt really freaking.
Spooky winter.
Bluestone gatehouse that was built over this river. And then the last night we were in a eighteenth century castle.
Yeah, that was getting renovated.
Guy was renovated on his own.
Oh my god, does Ali do all the planning pretty much for those?
Because she's so good at it.
And I do love it. I do love the research as long as I've got time to do it.
I really love.
This was one in the Yeah is that?
How is that in yours?
Exactly? I'm the alley. I do the planning and everything, and.
And I'm the one hounding, like have you booked the flights?
Well?
Yeah, and the books I turn up?
I want to go somewhere like this, like this, like this, and then I'll make an untinerary and send it through for approval.
Nice.
Well, take us back to that zoom call, you know, was it all sort of business at first or was there immediate like this guy?
Well got a correct that actually there was no zoom call.
It was.
It was an Instagram message and that led to what are you doing tomorrow?
Hading on Who's who?
Slipped into Who's my best friend?
They met Yen's at an audition and said, you have to meet this this guy. He's music did a background now doing drag, and I think you would work well together. And I had had a couple of lines with my housemates and was feeling confident, so I messaged Yen's from my drag account like, hey.
Queens, sleag girl, work, did a work work? I think we would work well together. What are you doing?
And the Ends replied straight away.
I had nothing else sitting on the couch for six weeks, so it.
Was lockdown, lockdown, but I was because I work as a landscaper. I still had permission to leave and like a ten work because that wasn't that wasn't essential service.
Apparently those Brighton houses needed their head, they needed did many wealthy family homes.
Am I just am?
I just finally connecting the fact that you're a landscaper and your name is Ivor rosebud to Hello.
Ding Ding Dan, you hit the buffalo, got it.
Cool?
So the DM slid and then did you then did you get on a zoom call with no?
There was no z So I messaged Ends and I said, we'd love to work. Apparently we would work well together, and he replied straight away and he was like, well when do you want to possibly meet up? And I said, well how about tomorrow we can meet for a wine and a walk.
At ten am.
No, No, it was lab.
I was am somewhere because you know, everyone in Melbourne had given up by that point, and we were all having bubbles and out keeap cups and the real chest was I said, you get the food and I'll get the wine, because I'm a bit of a foodie. I'll get I got like a nice drop and he bought the pastries and he did. He bought Coal's pastries, which that.
Was I'm sorry, Coals makes beautiful.
Beautiful questionable.
Well he did buy a La Guet and I was like, well, at least he bought a sourdough.
Bi get not last.
And we met in Footscray Botanical Gardens because and you left your five kilometer radius.
It was on the cusp. I was on the cusp and by this point everyone was like, oh, you know, it was like five point. I felt very very no because I hadn't.
Did that raise the anticipation in the.
Created some fire breaking some law exactly. Now that things are normal, I'm like, wait, do I even feel anything? I do?
It's a test test, yeah, and we kind of, yeah, we hit it off. We were listening to jazz music and we realized we had a lot of in common.
And then.
Somehow business turned to pleasure.
Yeah, yeah, and how what was that? How long was that time frame where where the business did turn into pleasure? Okay, so who caught the fields first?
Well, we said it was miss kicking in.
But we spent a few hours talking about cabaret and music and really like bonding over how much in common we had in taste in art in particular. And then one of them was Elaine Stretch is at Liberty. It's a cabaret show that she's done, and it's filmed and recorded and look, he's listened and watched it a million times and I had heard snippets from it. He's like, we should go watch it. Oh my god, it's fabulous, it's camp. We need to go watch it. Why don't we go watch it.
To get ideas for our collaboration.
Yeah, And so I was like, I can't go to your house, like that's against the rules. I did.
I did that, but we were in the back garden in the house. We were still outside. And then yeah, I went into the kitchen to get a cup of tea and then I came back and lean over and did a spider Man kiss.
Spider Man. I like Spider Man kiss.
Yeah, it didn't really quite work.
They must have rehearsed quite a lot of the movie I've.
Just Met You and You Kiss Me without even like, you know, sussing if that was the vibe. Luckily for him it was the vibe still, you know.
I thought it was very Ford and we've been inseparable ever since.
And the first show you created was which one.
I actually think we started like just co hosting some things first, Like there's this venue in Melbourne called the Speakeasy Theater. It's a vaudeville kind of variety. Yeah, where is that in the city on FLDS Street. It's like it is like a speakers you can't tell from the art side. It's very normal.
It feels very like old school board Villion. Yeah, like very catch It's yeah of a kebab shop, you know, sick snack afterwards.
Yeah, yeah, get kebab your shirt.
I had to do my makeup and there the other day because the person opening the theater is running late. I had to get into my drag makeup, which gives a good two hours. And she was like, I'm going to be forty five and I have to start my makeup and I've been dropped off with my uber. I've got my makeup, So I went into the Kebb shop and said, can I do makeup here? I'm sorry? She said okay. So for forty five minutes I was sitting there doing you know, everything and made a good friend with the lady.
Does it really take that long?
Like?
Does it?
Yeah?
Two hours?
Yeah?
Comfortably. We can sprint through it in an hour and twenty yeah. Yeah, well you've got a mode to cover up.
No, I don't cover it up. It's part of part of, part of the esthetic, part of.
The Yeah, remember that.
Can you just both of you, can you just take us back to when you were younger?
Younger?
Like, where did the love of drag come from? Why did you decide to do it? And I mean both of you are very well trained. Actually, was that something that from little little ones that you knew you wanted to be in the theater someway or another?
Do you want to go first?
Yeah?
Well I grew up watching my nan live with us, and I always grew up watching the old fashioned music halls like Doll Singing in the Rain, and just like the budget on those films and the escape is it was always a love and the music. I fell in love with the music in the style. Never thought i'd ever pursue that. And then mums said that there was a performing arts high school, and then my friends said
that there was performing arts universities. You know, I never really thought that that's something that I could actually do, and it kind of just like evolved. I just went along for the journey drag. Never thought I'd ever do drag until I graduated from VCA and I was, you know, attending the club scene, and I was watching incredible performance art in Melbourne and drag queens doing incredible things, and I was like, I can do that. I want to do that, And then through a connection with a friend,
started performing in the Melbourne club scene. Yeah, creating, and I think I used drag as a vessel to portray some of the messages or political ideas that I wanted. And now it's kind of this persona, this alter ego.
Yeah, that is.
That a liberating feeling, having that that persona that you can it is maybe say things that you would normally say. Is that how it works?
Yeah?
And also Dragon itself is political as well, so but it is liberating and to also to create art that I get to creating your own art and sharing that.
Yours is also you know, it's unique and it's a very special way, like the work that you do, the performances you create. I have never seen drag performances like that, you know, without going into too much details, this particular action that's called levon Rose. You know, the classic song starts as a beautiful, beautiful Glamazonian woman with long pink hair,
a big red boa and gorgeous gown. And then as the song goes along, one piece of clothing gets thrown, another piece of clothing gets thrown, until the very end she's in the splits in nothing, absolutely nothing, but it's all soul and extremely and by the end of the people are like, what it's going on. I've never seen anything like this before. Woman at the top, manhood at the bottom, and it's for a split second everyone's confused.
Which started in a club scene like very like.
Not punky underground, now it's been.
Like a dressing gown and nothing else.
You've toured the.
World with it now on huge stages.
Which you know, the whole point of it to reveal kind of make fun of drag. Why not make fun that, like you know underneath all the makeup and wigs there is a different person who is presented on the outside, which is why I keep the mustache as well. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's fun. Thank you who's paying you?
I'll be a publicist episode.
I want to have for unions.
Well, when I was a little child in South Africa, I was forced to always sing every time my parents had friends over. They said, yeah and sing a song because they saw this like, you know, voice in the choir than the church. And then when we moved to Australia, I joined this like kind of music theater and acting youth school called Bites in Budroom on the Sunshine Coast, and then music theater was kind of that route that I took because I think that was kind of popular
for school kids to study. I also kept like singing, doing singing competitions on the side. I would always dress up as a girl as well, even when I was from when I was like ten and then there was this singing competition search for a search for a Malula bar Star and I put on a wig, I put on a dress, and my parents like, you have to
do less strong really, oh my god, they insisted. They were like you've got to do this because I had just done this like performance for my grandparents silver anniversary and they said you should do the same thing for this competition. Anyways, I won, and Milulla Bar was ready for a ten year of twelve year old drag queen
to sing strong enough by share. I know, I know, And then the music theater took a break and then came back to drag after I studied and kind of honed the craft of performing, you know, in all its forms, acting, dancing, singing, and now putting it all together in what I think is such a beautiful art form, drag cabaret.
Are both of your families really supportive of the drag were?
We're so lucky, very lucky.
I so that.
You're brother You've got you mentioned before we came or we started pressing before press record.
You've got brothers, three brothers on the second of the four.
Yeah, and are they are they supportive too?
They're so supportive.
I think it's so cool, and I mean, especially with the nude work that I've done, they just think it's hilarious when they come to the like.
Was really cool. Thanks, darling.
But I'm sure growing up with four boys you were probably naked a lot, weren't you.
Most seemed to run around.
We grew up in the country as well. It was three We were just running around.
I mean that that was the most common phrase in our house with our son.
It was like, where are your pants? Where are your pants? Put your pants on?
It was my youngest brother, I wonder when.
Yeah, he was classic. I grew up with four boys too, really yeah, our bath Sorry, I'm.
Number one boy number one.
I have an older sister who was the icebreaker for us. She's the hero of the family. Yes, yeah, yeah, And but our the morning routine in the bathroom was hilarious with four boys switching from each station like you'd have one on the duney, one cleaning his teeth in a shower, one going.
Harrier literally literally, yeah, yeah, there were no secret even just like dinner times, ens is always like why do you always eat like you've there's nothing left on that because I had to fight for my.
First literally absolutely.
So, how do you guys stay connected? You mentioned overseas travel and are you together or do you travel alone and do your shows by yourselves? And how do you stay connected when you when you're apart?
Zoom well, up until this point, we have been lucky enough that a lot of times we do a lot of shows together, so you know, like Madame Martha's show, we've toured the country together a lot. But then also when we do separate shows, like I tour my Skank Sinatra show, like to Edinburgh this year, Lockeye's in a show called Club Cabarett. Bernie Dita's Club Cabrette fabulous high budget, fantastic circus and variety cabaret show also going to Edinburgh.
And so typically the festivals, you know, the circuit aligns, so we're always in the same place. We were both in Perth. I did skanksin Utra, you did Club Cabarette, and so it's good because we can also save on accommodations. Sometimes it's like perdms that a line that we can you know, help each other out one year, like I'm on a slightly bigger budget thing and then Locky you stay with me than the next year Locke's getting paid
more day with him. So it works out well that typically we're always together, which can also be a curse sometimes, like when you're in Perth for five weeks, I'm not gonna lie I enjoyed having two weeks to myself in Melbourne at the home.
Do you know the house is really clean when you're away.
It's also nice to miss each other every now.
Yeah, I think that that's it's important.
Now, Stank Sinatra, tell us how this name came.
When I was at WAPPA studying music theater. We have to do like this ten minute cabaret presentation, write a little you know, snippet and present it to the class. And I did a Sinatra cabaret, but I had a grand piano in a suit, singing about kind of misogyny, but through a you know, delicious nineteen fifties Sinatra lens.
Then did you write it?
I did. It was Sinatra songs, but I would parody them, change the lyrics and you know, set it up that it was such a you know, gorgeous like comply with me was like comply with me, and it was about, you know, my wife at home, just do as I say and everything will be fine. And then I did it for the Perth Fringe Festival. It did really well at it again the second year after I graduated, and then I kind of just wanted to go serious into
the I guess Hugh Jackman thing. He had came and talked to us when we were at Whopper, and I was like, I want to be like I want to be in musicals and films and you know, do the serious actor things. So I tried that and then I realized, you know what my heart is just in the cabaret
drag world. What am I doing? And then Sinatra was kind of a natural road because I've always loved the music and I felt I had unfinished business with this show that I wrote, because I was like, I did it in a very like straight coded way before, and I think I need to do it in heels, in a wig and lashes. And so I had this urge to kind of complete this full circle of the Sinatra show.
I rewrote the entire thing. It's completely different, but it came to full fruition in twenty twenty three when I did it at the Butterfly Club in Melbourne, this gorgeous Caba revenue. And now I've been touring for two and a half years, which that show. Yeah, it's done so well.
I know you're still.
Creating new things as you go, or adjusting fine tuning.
Adjusting and fine tuning is a big part of it. I've brought on a friend who helps me like polish some jokes and writing stuff, Andy Ballock. He's a great writer. Brought on some directorial support. My friend of Livia cho Lambers, helps direct things and polish. We watch back seasons of other ones. How can we make it better? But it's reached a point now where I feel like, particularly Adelaide, I've done two years now, I've won Best Cabaret twice, and I'm like, Okay, I feel like I need to
do a new show next year. Edam my fringe. I'm just doing my second time this August, but I'm starting to think, you know, there needs to be another show in the making. I'm trying a new one here at the Qtopia's Pride best called Skank Sinatra's Dirty Martini Lineup, which is like a late night lineup, fun show, chaos, yeah, bit of fun.
Oh you had me a dirty Yeah.
Every audience member gets one on arrival.
Oh how good?
Really, that's great.
No one goes home empty exactly.
Tickets to four hundred and fifty dollars.
We have We have a diar friend. His name is Tom Burlans, and he was the man from Snowy River. I mean an actor from from a little while ago. He was also what he did, oh Farlap, He was the lead actor in Farlap.
He great movies to revisit or visit in your case, I haven't seen them.
The next year or something. So the audition brief has just come around, which the music this year.
I bet Tommy, you'll go up for Tommy. You'll go up for Tommy, will go up for Tommy wood Comfi.
That would be amazing. Well he is.
He is the like if you close your eyes and heard tom sing, he sounds exactly Frank Sinatra, Wow, exactly. In fact, he did the singing.
On on On Sinatra the mini series. So back in the nineties, Tina Sinatra, she she gave the blessing for the Sinatra Mini series Philip Caswell Kazanov for something he played Sinatra. Tommy should have because he kind of had that a little bit of a but anyway, Tom sung for Tina and she went, I can't, I can't change. I can't hear the difference, You're so Tom sung for that. He does shows around.
The rolls it out with the band on the boats and cruisers.
And the zoos and things.
They do those special nights.
For the animals.
So so you guys, you clearly get along. Well, there must be times when there's creative differences or things. How do you as we are a relationship party, so how do you deal with conflict when it comes up?
When it Well, in Madam Martha's it's a trio based ensemble. So unfortunately Meg is the mediator and just to decide a lot of the creative decisions.
The third member of the show, Meg, which one do you think is right?
And she's like, so when Meg's not there later back at yeah.
Home, we call Meg. Meg's on the speedy Honestly.
Now we call the Nutmeg because great, I'm going to call her that.
I love that.
Well, it's actually it's a bloody challenge because we do have creative you know, differences in choices and stuff. But we do respect each other's opinion a lot. And I think to actively never dismiss or never like shove off an opinion that's said by the other person is something to be very crucial of I'm always trying to pick up on myself if I seem like no, no, no, that's not right, and I'll move forward because we have
this like shorthand as a couple. When you're creative in the room, I think you need to treat the other person as if their you know, creativity is something to respect the way that you would any other person in a professional space. But it's hard. It's hard.
Yeah, And like forgiveness is important, communication is important, especially creatively, always trying each idea and giving value to everyone's respond.
Exactly, Like sometimes if I if one of us does something and I think, oh no, that's so stupid, Like all right, let's just try it and then we can all make a decision afterwards, because you know, if something works, you know once you've tried it. But to dismiss and not try it, I.
Think sometimes it's hard. In Drag we always laugh at this because like with the amount of makeup on your face, Like somebody will say something and you're like what, But like they'll be like, my favorite color is green.
You're like, I can't believe she's said.
That, because it comes across as tense because of the way the face looks like a severe woman.
Yeah.
Literally, yeah, it's always like we were in the car driving somewhere and just says something I'm.
Like everything feels high stakes when it's sit in a drag face.
Yeah, that would be. I mean, do you ever find yourself in the car in full drag?
Always? Every day? Every day?
Is it? Is it usually positive?
Please tell me yesterday you heard the opening of because You're headlining Qtop your pride fest and where we were driving a darling host or somewhere, we were both in drag and someone crossed the bedest in crossing crossing and was like.
Hey, girls, we get a lot of that, which is fun.
It's joyous.
It always brings a smile to people.
Yes, that's what I think.
I don't know the way that's the way I see drag. Anyway I see it. It's so such a joyous, you know experience. It's always so full of joy I mean we spoke to Hannah Condo.
Yeah, when I was in Perth at Wapa, we used to go watch her every week because she was the host of the local you know, gay club at the Court and Connections. She's obviously moved to Sydney since then, but back then she was the girl in the drag scene in Perth and so she very much also, I guess was an inspiration to the young people coming up in the drag world.
I saw you just on a on a on a acting school question for this, I mean a lot of our listeners probably have kids that are wanting to go to acting.
Schools and performance schools.
Do you was it basically?
Was it a positive experience for you? For you both?
Oh, this is a good one we can talk about because you went to VCA, I went.
To both of you have both of those schools have great reputations.
Yeah.
I had a great time at WAPPA. The cohort I was with was we're still like close as anything. We talk every single day. The people I met were amazing. The training was it was music theater training. It can sometimes be a bit binary in the way like men have to be masculine, women have to be you know. I think it's changing, you know, but sometimes institutions are slow to catch up with the zeitgeist of the times.
And because Perth is quite far away from you know, the Eastern States, it's got a hive mind of its own, which is great. But at the same time, it was a bit of a shockcoming to Melbourne and Sydney, where you'd feel like you're jumping into a pool where the industry that was told to you what it was like is not anything like what it was described.
Where you also went to drama school in nineteen eighty three, whereas when I went to it was.
Very twenty sixteen, fourteen to sixty.
We always have this little rival too.
I'm like, oh, you have a Bachelor of Arts and music theater, but I have a Bachelor of fine Arts.
You wouldn't be able to tell you would.
That's fine that.
You were in the heart of you know, Australia's cultural culdron in Melbourne.
Pretty different from a little bogan from Maitland. But yeah, it was an incredible experience, like working so hard as well. I think we studied like forty to fifty hours a week and then you know I worked as a waiter for thirty hours a week just to stay on top. But the experiences were incredible, shaping my identity and also
the people that I met. I think it's if someone was thinking about putting a child, or if a child is thinking about pursuing a career, and or at that avenue, I sleep back that up.
I have a slightly slightly different opinion on that. Actually, if you've got something else that you like nearly as much and it makes good money. What you know, it's bloody hard to make money in the arts, and we are constantly eighty percent of our arguments are about money because it's not flowing regularly. We can't plan. We try to read the Barefoot Investor or the.
You know, Oh my gosh, it all exactly our first Christmas together. Yeah, we hadn't been together six months, and I bought EN's tickets to Mulan Rouge the musical, and he bought me the Barefoot Investor.
I was like, this is not a sign.
It could be the Barefoot Landscape.
Yeah, well that's I mean, what time is that?
But you know, it's like we have no stability in the financial way. So I'm like, if there's something, you can continue doing your arts as a joyful hobby, or you can even do it professionally, but typically it's after hours. A lot of musicals, even like independent musicals, rehearse after
hours on weekends. You can have a daytime job. I know a lot of people who studied the performing arts with acting, music there or whatever and then spent years just doing that full time while doing a cafe job or you know, something else on the side, and now have you turned it slightly to be more like I've found something else that I really like that brings in money, whether it's you know, pilates instructor a teacher, and they really enjoy that there's some financial stability, and then they
still do a lot of shows, a lot more shows than some people we know who are just one hundred percent in the arts with their cafe job or whatever.
On the side, I agree with you that is because being married to a creative and it's like that feast or famine where.
It's like it's great when it's all.
Happening, but like that famine of like we don't know, we can't plan, we don't know if we're doing this, we can't say if we can do that, We don't we don't know, And it's just oh yeah, I always say, like, make sure you have other things that you real your face you.
Really want to do my cheeks are getting sucked through landscaping.
Yeah, And I'm lucky that it's at the place where I can do that between creative contracts. Such a contrast the two worlds. Yes, so it's a nice escape, but it's also some stability to help things go along, you know.
Yeah, that's not guaranteed jobs either, in a sense that's like, yeah, so it's still kind of waiting for the landscape.
Because I'm like, oh and also if we'll waste so much like per six weeks. I'm lucky that I have clients who are very understanding or possibly like the fact that their gardener is.
Rosebud sometimes singing got and demand. In Melbourne, everyone you know wants because he's very efficient but very good. Everyone says, oh my god, you're the best guy and I've ever had.
Who's paying it?
Yeah, exactly. The garden's always in demands. I guess it's unlucky.
Yeah, but in the winter it would slow down, wouldn't it. You've got all your coning okay, yeah, the winter pruning.
Okay.
Do you get to create gardens too? Do you have to go down to Bunnings and pick up all the wood and create.
All the wood?
Garden renovation in Prince's Hill where I literally moved like thirty cubic meters of soil by hand because it's like an old terrace home and repaved everything that that was an exciting job.
Something that is also great is that no matter where we go you can find gardening work. You've got gardening clients in Queensland and we've you know, typically done some shows.
We went to clown school in Paris, I was working.
Yeah, you did lots of gardening work on the weekends. For Philip Gollier, the clown master himself, really he's like, you can do a little be doing.
Here to have us in for lunch and you know, we'd drink wine and he'd always like take a sip of his glass and then phill it back up champagne glass.
But isn't it nice in situations like that where you can actually have a conversation with someone of that ilk that's not necessarily about the arts. It is about rosebuds. It is about creating something else. It just adds a different dimension to relationships with people.
It does, it really does.
What would you say has been your most magical moment on stage together?
Is there one moment that you.
Go, oh, it was this or for me, I've been discovering it doing our Madam Martha's show here in Sydney. When we sing at the end of the show, it's a bit cringe, but we sing a three part harmony version of Pink Pony Club, but it's got to wink it itself and it's you know, kind of ironic, but
also then it reaches apart, it's really beautiful. And the lyric is I'll make my mom a proud And we always like look at each other and I'm like, this is so nice because we know how proud I'MU are of us that we just live so, you know, unapologetically in our truth. We're in flow. We love what we do, we show up for our family and our loved ones. We have an amazing community. And then when I sing that, I'm like, this is very special. So that's probably my moment.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think we're lucky that we get to watch each other on stage and see each other in each other's element, and no matter where the show goes where if it's like in a beautiful tent in Adelaide fringe, or when we did a town hall in a rural countrytown which had one lighting state the whole time we couldn't see anything. I literally fell off the stage. It was hilarious because
it was the floodlight. Those times, just doing the thing together, making beautiful memories and meeting extraordinary people is a special in itself, so I can't put it down to one. The journey together, yeah, yeah, must be great.
Have faced challenges as a couple that, you know, people wouldn't expect that. Yeah.
Well, the biggest challenge is when I I'm stealing your makeup and wigs.
We piss each other off a lot about like, I really don't like my wigs to be handled in a manhandling kind of way. I'm very delicate about my costumes, my makeup, my wigs because they're expensive, like wigs, you know, easily three hundred and fifty four hundred dollars for a styled wig. And then Lockie comes four boys hair gardener heavy handed, throws things around my costumes. He's like, can I borrow this costume? If you take care of it?
Comes back? You know, there's stains all over it. It's been thrown through the mud, it's been through the rain, and I'm like, it's.
Doing the lawn in it.
That's rough.
I was going to ask you about it if you.
So, what does the shopping day look like? If did you actually go out on dedicated like I've got to get this and I've.
Got to get that.
Yeah, you head into Mecca together.
And actually just like I'm doing an order from Crayole and do you need anything? Yeah, and one of us is usually like, if one of us needs something, we'll usually just check with the other one. Do you need some makeup as well? Because it's also always cheaper if you order more or sometimes you get discounts and stuff.
What else would be our challenges that we're faced? I mean, financially, there's been times, but I guess we're lucky that we have family that we can who love the arts and support the arts, that where we can call like you're good with money? What else has been challenging?
Do you give each other like feedback on the performance or is that just like way too dangerous?
Definitely, he's very forthcoming with his notes. Okay, he will be very happy to give his thoughts on performances straight away after, and I'll have to be like give and yeah, I'm still sweating from coming off stage. It's like, I don't I think you should cut that song shorter, Like it feels like it's drags on and when you walk it kind of feels like you're taking a gag out of the song, and it's be better if you just like, did it beautifully? I'm like, so yeah, working on.
That, working on that is you know, performance takes different different aspects. Obviously you're out there, but then if you're directing or producing, is that is that something well, obviously you direct your own things as well. Is that would you see yourself leaning more into that and stepping away from it or is the performance very much still part of it?
I mean, I always think that I would love to do more things from the creative engine of shows, like I love producing, I love producing, I love producing. I've really loved like directorial aspects of Madam Matha's. It's been a equal, three part creative process. Like we're very sensitive to each other to make sure that no one is senior in any other way. Everyone is one hundred percent equal, and I very much respect both of you and us as a trio for maintaining that sensitivity to each other.
No one is draconian in their decision making. No one feels like their final call is mine and I'm gonna end with that, Let's move on. It's kind of always like is everyone happy with that? Great? So I don't know. I've been enjoying producing, directing music, directing is something I love doing as well. I play the piano and I have music directed a few cabarets and shows in the past, which is yeah, I like that about you.
I guess like being in the nature of independent theater and the fringe environment. You wear many hats, so I guess we all have that kind of interest. Obviously, Jens is great because he takes more of an interest in the producing and is really good at the admin side of things. And then like, I don't know, yeah, what about when.
Was I it was in wa It was in Perth and they had the Perth Fringe Festival going on and walked around inside that in that precinct where in the gardens. Yeah yeah, and a lot of the performers were out there marketing their own shows. Are you Are you in that too? In that world having to do that as well?
Definitely humbling it is to be rejected person.
What's so amazing about Edinburgh fringe too, no matter how big the performer is, Like famous actors or comedians are on the street like everyone does, having their own shows, because I mean that's the only way. There's such a big market over there, and there's just so many people the only way to do that is through personable.
And edition Edinburgh Fringe is you have to flyer. It's just an understood thing no matter how big your show is the increase in tickets that you will get from just having visibility on the street and people like it when it comes from the performer or the person involve the show. People hire flyers as well. But that also shows to the artists who are smaller up and coming that you know what flowering something that you do and you can be proud of yourself flying and not just feel like a.
Completely easy too like no, especially when you're about to perform and you're like, I'm literally on in ten minutes, but I need to sell twenty more tickets.
Okay, let's go.
Because it's that hour before your show, you can catch some people who are looking for something to see and yeah, you kind of be like, fabulous drag cabaret show, Jazzy please come.
Remember we were in Darwin and we were up there and that Spegeltent show that we saw, Yeah, and it was fantastic and they were out the performers were out there papering as you say, you know, literally ten minutes before we've got seats, We've got seats available, come on in and it was one of the funnest, funnest nights.
Yeah. I think it's the rise of the fringe festival, or even just like festivals in general, Like you see how many have popped up. Every city nearly has a version of fringe festival. Yeah, ten years ago. I don't know the stats on this, but we're a lot less and I think, you know, it's less common to just have a city specific show. Shows tour now more because you can access more audiences and circus and variety has become a lot more popular and kind of big scale and budget.
And Australia has two of the top three in the world. So Edinburgh is the biggest than Adelaide, than Perth.
Yeah, for interest of all sizes.
Alie wrote this question, can I ask it?
You may?
Yeah, yeah, what's the weirdest thing you've ever hot glued for a costume?
I love how drag specific that is, but you know, I have never used a hot glue gun. I know, and I hope that no drag queens are listening to this because that is blasphemy. I'm not crafty, oh like that. I know. I have a friend who makes costumes for us, and he's like, he's hot glue that you need to put the rhyme stones if you want to pay for my early rate, you know, to rhymestone for you for hours.
I'm not going to do it a lot. And I've sat down with this corset and Ryanstones next to me for hours, just staring at it, and I'm like, I don't know where to start, and I'll be like, I'm scared I'm gonna put in the wrong place. I have a phobia of ruining things.
Yeah.
Mine was for my very first debut as I ever in the club scene. It was a ballet belt and because that's when I wanted to do a reveal where I took my dress off and I was wearing it. It's a ballet belt that a hot glued roses all over and I hot glued of rosebud too, you know, my the back of the ballet belt, because I wanted to do the full reveal and the arrival of I have a rosebud and turn around and put my head through my legs and there was a rosebud. I guess
that's the weir it is thang. I guess that's such a visual and now it's hanging in a museum.
Of first does your does your drag persona influence you a lot in in real life? Do you feel the blend happening a lot?
Or is it? Are they quite clear to different personas?
We always say that it's a height in version of ourselves. Yeah, I guess drag naturally kind of is I feel I like to think there's a little separation between ir and locky, but maybe looking back to me running around naked in the backyard, there's not so much.
I don't know. I feel like I feel like I'm a lot more chill and go with the flow and easy going as a person outside of drag, But then when I'm in drag, I'm usually like kind of serving boss queen energy and like the decision maker and you know kind of.
Now you do that in life.
Yeah. True.
What's what's one thing that drag has taught you about about vulnerability especially in relationship too?
Well? I mean it's a very different time to do drag now than it was, you know, even ten years ago.
So where the commercialization through Ripaul and you know, just the market being flooded and it's you know, everyone loves drag. It's cooled to have drag queens.
Or drag is very popular in a way that I think, you know, we stand on the shoulders of many giants who did it in a time when it was unsafe and dangerous, you know, like Oxford Street. Now you walk up and down and there's you know, drag queens galore,
and it's the vibe there always has been. But I think particularly like the safety level is very different now because it's kind of celebrated as a part of not only LGBT community, but with the rise of you know, queerness in the world, it's accepted a lot more now. It's not kind of like the other now Ripples Drag Race is one of the highest rated you know, reality shows ever, Yeah, and has been longed mainstream. It's now
no longer in the shadows. So I think it's honestly, it would be it would be not right of me to say that it feels hugely vulnerable to do drag, because I actually feel it's a very safe thing to do. I also feel very privileged in that way that I live in you know, in a city in Melbourne and Sydney. You know, it's different when you're in the regions. But yeah, very much down on the shoulders of giants.
I think we definitely do. There has been times like in Perth Fringe recently, I would receive some comments on the.
Street from twelve year old boys, yeah, or.
Just like people who would say certain things as you're walking down the street. But then you walk into the venue and they come. The same people come to your shows and their minds have been slightly altered or it's okay because they're in a relaxed environment, they're seeing something entertaining. So I still think, you know, it was a bit challenging with those two contrasts, if that makes sense. Yeah, but I do think I don't know it was it was.
It was challenging, but I thought it was still important because I felt that I was opening some minds or changing some opinions.
I do think also drag queens typically and drag kings, and you know, drag artists are often mascots for the queer community in a way because we're always on not typically on stages, performing and speaking, hosting. So the opinions of drag queens do kind of speak often as a
representation for the queer community. I think it's important to sometimes advocate for you know, trans riots and lives and any kind of LGBT movements that are being squashed in also other parts of the world, you know, like the UK has been having a bit of trouble with you know, trans voices being squashed. And we take it for granted because I feel we've grown up in a time when we're very lucky. It's becoming more and more accepted.
But being in Australia, and being.
In Australia grew up in South Africa, you know, it's a different place as well. But I when I speak to queer elders, they often say, you know, the fight has to be continued because you can't just relax because then you see the rise of certain voices that try to bring in whether it's autocracy in fascism you know that's rising in the States or even other parts in Germany. It's not just a given that it's going to remain
safe for you know, marginalized community. So I think the fight is ongoing, and I do feel like, you know, I feel like, okay, I need to step up, and that's a part of my responsibility as a drag artist in the queer community.
Yeah, and I was just thinking that think really well said, there is a level of responsibility. Sometimes I feel like when I'm in drag, I'm it's almost like I'm representing a company, or if I'm facing something challenging, I'm like, Okay, my reaction to this is really important to.
Represent, to represent.
I don't want to say the wrong thing, like it's important the next few steps of this interaction.
Yeah, I understand that, because also you in the drag community or in any community that isn't it is sort of on the edge of creativity, is up for judgment, and if you've got you know, it's really easy for someone.
To it's not in the arena.
It's not in that arena exactly to make cast judgment or dispersion against you. And suddenly you know that becomes a thing and it's like, nah, I'm not gonna let that's not on my watch.
And it's not for everyone, especially being in cabaret where the fourth wall is broken so often and you see people and they maybe have been accidentally put in the front row and they're not very comfortable with what they're the level of involvement or what they may be seeing, and that's okay. That's also part of the understanding that I have to face as well. It's like that's not for everyone, and if people have different opinions, that's okay.
Yeah.
You go to like your show, like the Burning This Club Cabaret, and you just you can't help but leave and feel that this is completely beautiful. How can I not celebrate all these bodies and voices that are on stage. There's you know, the songs are so beautiful and they're all about togetherness, and you leave feeling inspired and like you feel like you want to hate less and love more. So I think that's a good way it's about to bring people together.
Yeah, well, as you said as well, I mean this is such a joyous thing to be around, and like when I asked you about on the street, I'm hoping that people respond in a positive way because I know how I feel when I come up in front of people in drag and it's always such fun, you know, specially when they go I see you, Cameron Da. I mean, it was so fun.
Yeah, it's grown adults and wigs and make up. You've got to have a laugh as well.
Yeah, a lot of footy clubs, you know, there are the boys on their pine getting dressed up as girls and doing the can can.
That's like, yeah, that's great.
Fun fun, so true. We do something called the Rapid Heartbeat. Is that what we call it?
Let's just I just saw that when you wrote it.
I like it.
I've been doing this for months.
That's what I thought it was. But then I went, but I always thought that. I think that's a really good name. It's called the Rapid Heartbeat, yout Wich figuring it. So we're just going to ask you both the same questions, So just keep your answers short and then we'll.
Finish off there.
There you go. I'll go first, what brings speaking your joy?
What brings you joy?
Dressing up? And then.
Is making people laugh? That brings me enjoy.
Being with my family which includes you.
Yeah, is there one moment in your life that you'd like to relive again?
Wh No, because it's all part of the journey, and if it's not been so positive, it's a learning experience. And yeah, as we said before, we both are very fortunate and very grateful for our families and our liights.
So yeah, I'd love to rewin the search for a Little bus Star and get that trophy and that big fudge chocolate basket that I got as a prize.
Where is that?
I love it, I hate it?
Finish the sentence. What the world needs now.
Is another pride festival.
Kind of what I said before, to accept each other for our differences and be able to live with two opposing ideas inside our heads and not combust I think that was f Scott Fitzgerald's.
Ye, last question. One word to describe each other.
Honest, caring.
I always say there's like a golden Retrie, because I mean, he's got long lash's blonde hair, but he's just like so open and caring and like just a big ball of love.
Beautiful. Oh, this is so joyful.
I love talking to them both, and you, thank you so much for your time, Thanks.
For having skank skank and yeah, fantastic, so good. I can't wait to see.
You guys and we can go.
Yeah, that's the responsibility of a drag que joyous