I've never once in the time that I was pregnant or once Olivia Kane thought to myself, I wish somebody else was doing this with me. Do I want another pair of hands? Yes? I do. Do I want a partner? No I don't. I've never ever thought that that would be the better option. And maybe it is because of my upbringing, and you know, I've seen what it is to have somebody go into a relationship that is not healthy, not okay, and have no option to leave.
Hello, and welcome to the heart of it. We would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Urination, the traditional custodience of this land, and pay our respects to the elders, both past and present. My name's Ali Datto.
Well, I'm can Data. Hi, How I am? Okay?
Yeah? Good, We've just I'm still kind of ruminating on the podcast that we had with our lovely Rachel and how beautiful that was.
Yes, were joined in the studio earlier by our boss. Yeah yeah, our boss. Rachel Corbett's title here at Nova is head of Podcasts and Digital Content, but not so many of us. No executive Rachel.
Well, we know her as the Weekend host of the Project on Channel ten, which she's worked on for over a decade, right in some other Channel ten shows as well.
Yep.
I don't know where she finds the time, Like, she's just got so much going and stuff that we find out also everything else, Yeah.
Because she's really generous in creating educational podcasts about how to be a better podcaster, how to get your ideas onto the airwaves. Yep. And she is a podcaster herself.
Correct. And she's got a new one called Me and My Tiny Human. How cute is that where she is taking us on the journey of solo motherhood.
Our chat with Rachel, she was talking about, well, she takes us on quite a journey. She shot us a bit where she's in the hospital having given birth to Olivia and it's night two, yeah, and how that was for her and what the night nurs sent.
Oh it's a bit tough, Yeah, relatable, I'm sure to a lot of a lot of mums out there. It gets very emotional, I think for all three of us. We talk about the passing of Rachel's mom and you know, the inspiration that her mum still brings to her today actually, and what she learned from her childhood and how she's shifted that and parenting from a from a whole other place.
Yes, and speaking a whole other places. She takes us to Greece on a Greek fishing goal.
Oh now that's a story.
Yoh.
Yeah. Well we're getting to the heart of things with Rachel Corbett and really hope you enjoy the chat.
Hey, welcome Rach to the heart of it.
You got a new name, you got to get hit around.
We're out of there now, I know.
You're almost getting in the bathroom. Where's no longer.
No, we're not there. We're not there.
To the heart of it.
Yeah, And we normally start with how did you two meet, but we're clearly well we know, yeah.
Exactly he came out my son Rufe is how we are actually, which is we have to like been our best behavior. I feel like for this one because Rachel is basically our boss' boss. So if you don't get this right, the boss what okay?
So let's start here then, as you're the boss, right, so not many people, A lot of people know you in different ways. So take us through just a week in the life of Rachel Corbett. What do you I mean You've got so many hats.
I work and over. Obviously I run the network here and then I'm also on the project on a Sunday, and then I'm now a solo mum. And I also have a business which is a podcasting course, and I have two podcasts.
What even I didn't know all of that.
So I do a lot outside the hours of my job, and a lot where my kid is asleep. And I honestly, I've always been like that, even before I had a kid. But it does add a different level of exhaustion to the whole process. But I'm not quite sure how to shake that me. Yeah, yeah, I feel like I don't know that I want to either. Yeah, I just kind
of want to try and do everything. But I am conscious that now it's a lot more responsibility effort time when I'm with my daughter than it was before those hours and are taken up by something that can be very rewarding but to be honest, very draining.
Oh yeah, you.
Know, so I don't have a lot left in the tank. So I don't know. That's the juggle for me. I've always been the type of person that's taken more onto my plate than I could probably manage. But I'm conscious that I'm I have to recognize I'm a bit of a different person now, So I'm going to get my mind into how I navigate that.
I mean, clearly, you're not adverse to taking on incredibly wonderful challenges. Did that? Where is that from where you? Is that something that you were raised by doing that? It was mum and dad like that? Or where does that come from for you?
I think, honestly it was kind of my upbringing, but not necessarily the way my mum and dad were so much as you know, I'm a kid of divorce, that classic kind of life changes. Everything shifts when that happens, and then you find yourself in a new reality that you have to navigate. And I don't know that I've met many kids who've had a good experience of that. Divorced thirteen. So yeah, my memory of life before that,
I don't have any negative memories, you know. Interesting, even though my parents obviously weren't in a great relationship, I didn't feel like that was terribly evident to me. My dad was also away a lot because he traveled for business a lot. I don't remember feeling like he wasn't there as a kid, so that's kind of interesting too.
But then once my parents split up, it just everything went to shit, okay, you know, And so I would say probably for a period from thirteen to I mean, I would say probably my early thirties, it was pretty hard going. You know. I was still getting stuff done, I was still accomplishing, managing whatever. But in terms of the emotional stuff in my life, there was a lot going on, and I ended up having both my parents had forms of dementia. My mom had Alzheimer's and my
father had Louis body dementia. You know, the Alzheimer's with my mother was really terrible. My father, I ended up being sole care for him basically, And so it was this very very long period that was kind of into my forty so in terms of like just getting things done, it's just always been since that kind of moment, the sort of DeVault position. Really.
Wow, you're very practiced multitasking, yes, yeah, and.
Of caring and taking the load on of caring as well.
Yeah wow. And that was a big thing for me to you know, it took me a long time to have a kid. You know, I was forty two when I had my daughter, part of that was I did it by myself. So you need some time to get your head right in your mind, like your emotions right, your finances right, all that kind of stuff to do. That's a big decision to do on your own. But also I'd come out of over ten years of looking after parents and sick parents. I was like, I just
can't look after anybody else. Yeah right now? Yeah, So that was a big thing for me at that point in time.
And was that like a to be a mum after being a care of your folks? Was that just like, I mean, that's just an instinctual things like I want to be a mother. Yeah.
I've always since I was little, thought I want to be a mum. I've always felt like, even when i was sort of in those twenties where I'm just like what am I doing? Am I any good at anything? Like? Where am I going? All that kind of stuff in the back of my mind, even though I didn't want to do it then, I just felt like, I think the only thing I'm really going to be good at
is being a mum. I've just always felt like that would be something that I would be good at, and so I've wanted to do it forever, but I haven't wanted to do it at that time for a long time, so I would often think, like when I got to late thirties, I came out of a long term relationship, I realized, I don't have much time to meet somebody now and get to the level with somebody that I want to get to toe secure and safe enough to have a child, because once I have a child with someone,
I'm stuck with them for the rest of that's right. Yeah, so I didn't feel like I had enough time, But I was also conscious that my biological clock is ticking, and I'm thinking myself, I've wanted to do this since I can remember, but I'm still not ready. I'm still not at that point where I'm like and why. I know that I want to do this, But it took me a long time, I think obviously because I was
on my own as well. It did take me a long time to get my self into the right space, even though it's something I've wanted to do forever.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm I exactly the same as you. You know, I can't remember a time that I haven't wanted to be a mom, and I knew even when I was younger that whether I had a partner or not, I was going to have a baby. It just it was that was my absolute dream destiny. And yeah, it was like, if I'm whatever age and I still don't have someone, I will still have a child.
That's interesting because I thought a similar thing. Yeah, And I often wonder do you, I mean, it's different for you. You ended up in a great relationship and had kids, and I did end up on my own. And and I thought to myself, did I will this into existence or did I just know myself so well that I knew if this is where I ended up, I would do this. Because in my probably in my thirties, before I met my last partner, I would often say to myself,
I think I'll be a solo mom. I used to say, I think I'll be a solo mum and somebody's second wife.
Okay, I don't.
Know why I thought that. I thought I've probably met somebody that's divorced. Later. Ye, you know, exactly exactly.
Exactly, listener.
Yes, but at this point I'm just like, actually that bit, I don't even I don't want anymore because I can't even imagine I think like being into somebody anymore. That might seem really weird, but I just feel like I cannot imagine being interested in someone wanting somebody a part of my life, Like what's happened to me? Yeah, I just really have no interest. And I don't know whether
that's just because I'm in the think of it. My kid isn't too yet, you know, I'm still in the sort of think of it, and maybe once there she's a little more independent, I'll change that. But I just I can't imagine. What is your daughter's name, Olivia?
Olivia? You read the books? Olivia books? No, so good, so good? Your laugh is a classic? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's got such a personality.
I mean, there's so many things I want to get into. Has there been it? What's been your strangest or funniest reaction from people that when you've said that you're a solo mom and you've decided to do it all on your own.
Well, the strangest is I took a trip to Greece when I was pregnant. I was three months pregnant. I thought, I'm not going to be able to get on a long whole flight for a long time, but I always wanted to go to Greece. So I went over there. Some friends of mine were going and went along and we were out on this boat one day with this old school you know, he's a fisherman and we're out in the boat. Kept offering me wine all day, kept saying no, no, no, I don't know. And then eventually I say, look,
I'm pregnant. Oh you're pregnant. Congratulations, and he sort of in this broken English, starts asking me about the father above said there's no man, just you know, I mean, he was next level, like could not believe it, to the point where the actual sort of escalation of his reaction was when he hurled himself out of the boat to express his shock and horror at what I was doing, and was at me all day long on this boat, to the point where my mates and all of the
people that were on the boat were just like, are you okay, Like this is a lot in my mind. I'm like, this is really confirming my life choices, you know, like this is actually making me feel like I went down. But it was just so over the top. And then at the end he pulled me aside to he put into Google Translate that he apologized and could you please let me a good trip Advisor review. So I was like, always thinking about the customers. But yeah, I do often
get some very strange reactions. I think one of the more subtle reactions that I noticed a lot, and part of the reason why I wanted to kind of start a podcast about this and kind of talk about it a bit more publicly, was that people would ask me, oh, my, I see you're pregnant, and I would say they'd ask me kind of not even sort of who's your partner, but they'd ask me something in that vein that would make me go, actually, I did it myself, And that
split second reaction that I could see that showed me they were like, oh god, I shouldn't have asked like that. This is probably a touchy subject, Like they assumed that it was a bit of a consolation prize for me. I didn't want to upset my Obviously, you've tried to find the man, it didn't work, You're stuck with this option. And so I just really didn't like that response and felt like I always had to get ahead of it to be like I chose to do this, like I'm
really happy to do it. I did it by myself because there was this real sense even from men and women, oh your poor thing. I'm like, I don't feel that way at all, Like I actually feel like this is the best possible way that I could have done it. I've never once in the time that I was pregnant or once Olivia Kane, thought to myself, I wish somebody else was doing this with me. Do I want another pair of hands, Yes I do. Do I want a partner, No, I don't. I've never ever thought that that would be
the better option. And maybe it is because of my upbringing, and you know, I've seen what it is to have somebody go into a relationship that is not healthy, not okay, and have no option to leave, you know, And so I think growing up in that environment and seeing what that was like, I really recognized and almost kind of sunk into my bones in a way that like, I want to be independent, like able to do my own thing. And maybe that's kind of made me go as far
to that extreme as possible. But I found it a very powerful, exciting, great way to do things. But I did notice that a lot of people thought, oh, this would be a bit this must be a bit.
Sad for you, well, okay, so that's a misconception. Are there other misconceptions around it? And what what do you wish people knew more about?
So I think you have absolutely no idea. And I don't say this saying like you know a lot. I think sometimes people can get a bit angry at other people for having partners, and it's like, this is a decision you made, like it's tough, but you're on your own and you made that choice, right. So but sometimes I don't think you can have any idea of like what it actually is about unless you've done it on
your own. Even if you've you know, sometimes I talk to parents like, oh, yeah, I like my partner went away for a week, and I'm like, yeah, but you still had somebody to call every time you had a drama and say, hey, this has happened. Can you troubleshoot?
This is right?
It is And if they're not physically there, they're coming back, you know. So it's it's a very different situation. And it's just like there's no one to call. It's me. I'm in this and I'm in there twenty four to seven. There ain't no tap out at five pm when someone comes home with me the tap out. You know, so I think I don't like I don't think you should have any sympathy for that. This is a choice. I'm
really happy I made the choice. But I think in some situations, and more and more women are doing this, I think the default position of you must have done this with a partner or I don't know. I just think that that's the kind of approach that a lot
of people haven't. Even when I was in hospital, I found that at the end of my time there, I had a bit of a moment with the nurses because one of them came in to me and said, I don't think you're doing as well as we thought you might be in here, and I was like, I just really hit the skids because I was on my own for six days and I had stayed. I had gone into a private hospital because I thought, I don't have anybody at home, so I will have staff there, people helping,
people telling me what to do. And the hospital was in overflow at the time, so they had more people than they had beds, and I just completely got forgotten. Nobody showed me how to change an happy Batha baby. You know. I turned up to a lactation class because I'd had a really bad night on that night two cluster feed where they're sort of trying to feed they
and there's nothing coming out. And the midwife came in and I was asking for help and she just turned to me and said, well, this is what night two is like. And I was like okay, and I'd almost dropped her like three times. I was just this is just the worst. And so I turn up to this lactation class and the first thing the lady said to me everybody's there and partners and I would never care about that, wouldn't even register. Yeah, but the first thing
she said to me is where's your partner? And I just thought, could we assume that not everybody has one like that? And that I don't have to in this totally broken I've had no sleep and I'm not myself moment. I don't want to explain my life choices to you. Sure, I'd just like you to assume that this could be one of the options on the list of options and just go you're here, great to see you, Let's take you through the class.
I mean, who knows what other options? I mean, there's other options that why you're single you know, single parenting as well. If you came in on your own, that father might have passed away for God forbid. Totally, there's one night's stat I mean, there's so many other options that could have brought a massive amount of shame to that woman. I mean, yeah, to not have the wherewithal to sort of have that understanding is how you do it is a missing link.
I was just I mean, I just said nothing. Honestly, my usual reaction would be that I would probably have the ability to turn around go well, I'm lucky enough not to have one. But in that moment, I was just I just leave me alone, Just go away, tell me what to.
Do, because I am just actually in our cry.
Right now, and I do not want to cry in this room full of people. I just want you to tell me what to do so I can get out of here. And so I was, yeah, I essentially just
hit in my room for six days. And so, of course, at the end of six days, when you haven't left the room and you've been doing the whole baby thing by yourself, and you've had a c section and you're trying to deal with that, you're not gonna be too well on the other side of that, And when I had the conversation with this nurse, she sort of said, I actually don't think we're set up here to help people who are on their own, Okay, Like I think
we always assume there's somebody in there. If the door is shut, there's someone in there, because that's what happens with everybody, you know. So it's like it's probably been a good learning for us that we just weren't equipped with, but somebody being there by themselves. And that day she sort of took my baby and just did her rounds with her so I could have a shower, and that was like, I mean, I think I've got fifth day minutes to myself, and I thought it was just the
best day I've ever had in my life. It was just like there's no break, you know, so you because you can't have this kid off. So I think now one of the things that I've noticed actually sort of speaking about it more publicly, is I actually didn't realize how many women are doing it like this, But from the contact that I've had, I'm like, Wow, there are a lot, and there are a lot that want to do it as well. And so I think often the assumption is I couldn't do that by myself. There's no
way I could do this by myself. And I want women to feel like, yeah you could, Yeah you totally could.
Does the system allow is it easy to for you to do it?
Is in terms of the process that we're doing it and stuff?
I mean, I mean, obviously you need some money. I've heard I know about that. Yes, though is it is it a doable thing for most single women to do?
I think so? Like, I actually felt really positive about the whole process. I know that a lot of people go through it and they find a lot of the stuff confronting, like the injections and all that kind of stuff, But I sort of found that stuff just part of the process to get to where you want to go, you know. So I actually thought to myself, Thank goodness, I'm a woman because I have the oven. Yeah, you know, all I need to do is have the money to
get some sperm. And if I've got the eggs there, I mean even then I could get some eggs from somebody else and like cook it myself. But being a man who wants to do this, trying to find a woman to actually give you their uterus, like that's a big ass.
That's a big ask. It's a bigger and it's and it's and you can't, like in America you can pay someone yess RAIGHTA. It has to be voluntary. So I thought about that. I was like, imagine the flip side of.
I was going to ask you about this.
I had a conversation desperate to be a dad?
What is he? The conversation I had with a fellow the other day who's probably forty five. He is completely desolate, emotionally devoid, an upset, he's cranky at the world because he's like his girlfriend that he had, that he had plans with, she took off with somebody else. And he wants to be a dad. And he said to me, he goes, you will never run. Understand the feeling that I have of emptiness, that I will never be a dad.
And then when I knew we were going to be talking, I thought, I need to ask you about your thoughts about he wants. I mean, I want to go back and fix him and go of course you can be his dad, you can adopt someone, you can do them. But it's like, nah, this isn't the place to do that.
He doesn't want to be that. I'll just you know, let him have whatever he's do, what he's doing, and then I'll be there in an other way for him, but to yeah, to have that dream, and he's just like, nah, it's just never going to happen for me to be a single.
Dad, and that is heartbreaking, honestly. In the process of kind of getting ready for this, I would talk a lot to my therapist because I was saying to her, like, I want to do this, but I just my mind's not kicking in a gear. And I know, and she'd been I've been seeing her a long time. I'm like, you know, I'll come to things in the right time, but I'm also aware it's taken me a little too long, you know, but I know I'll get there eventually. I
just am trying to kick over into that. And she said, Look, one of the things that I see that is like I can't fix in my business is people who've wanted to haven't done it, and are later in life like that feeling of loss of regret. You know, you can't fix that. So I would just say to you, like that is if you really know you want to do that, if you don't do it like, that's kind of something
that I see a lot. And a great exercise she got me to do was she said, you know, go home and write on two pieces of paper the best version of your life with kids and the best version of your life without kids, and then weigh those two things up. And I could not even write the one that was the best version of my life without kids because it didn't exist. So that for me was like,
I'm like, there's no version. I don't even know what i'd put on that to say that's the best version of my life, like a travel that's not enough for me, you know. So that was a really good exercise for when getting my mind in. I think that was a real trigger forgetting me moving in terms of realizing, Okay, you might be taking a while, but you really do want this. Yeah, this is the best version of your life, so you've got to give it a go.
You know. I'm going to quote you on something that you've said in a previous article. You talk about your mom who passed away in twenty fifteen, and how proud she would have been of you for doing this on your own. My mom passed away in twenty fifteen, and she would have been proud of me doing this on my own. When I went through the process of finding the donor, I spoke to the clinic and they said,
start your injections tomorrow. And you looked at your diary and it was like, my god, it's my mom's birthday tomorrow. I know, I know. Yeah, And you had so many of those moments once you started that made you feel, this is the time. I have goosebumps all over my body. It's happening at the right time. Even when your daughter arrived, seeing her and her mannerisms, personality traits that are coming out, you were like, you are my person. You are the
person that was supposed to come to me. Yeah, it's so beautiful.
And then all of a sudden you're like, I did come to it in the right time. Yeah, you know, it took me a long time. And I think one thing, when you're late thirties, early forties, I mean, there's no shortage of people that are happy to tell you that you are running out of time, and that is something that you are always painstakingly aware of. You know, I had frozen my eggs twice in my thirties because I
knew that career was very important to me. I knew that I wanted to achieve a lot and try and get to a point where I felt like I could take time and I didn't feel like I could take time out until really I did it. So that was kind of important to me. But I doubted myself that whole time of like, I knew myself well enough to know I do come to things in the right time. But this everything tells me that this is that I'm
taking too long. Every bit of science telling me, every bit of any conversation, Yeah, I'm taken too long here. So when all of that stuff happened, I was just like, I did it at the right time for me. And you know, my mom that watching her as a kid have no real independence at all, have no option really
to do what she wanted to do in life. It just I know she would have been so happy for me to do this because I think she would have wished that she would have had that option too, you know, and it just wasn't available even for people not too
long ago. And it wasn't too long ago that you could like only freeze your eggs if you were going if you're a cancer patient or you know, all of this technology has moved along to the point where actually we can choose to do this and do it on our own, and that option just wasn't a possibility for my mother. And that's only you know, my mother's generation. So I'm so grateful for the fact that I could
do it. And I think, you know, one of my great memories of her when I was younger, and I don't even think that this was after my dad and her got divorced. I think this was during their marriage. Anytime we would drive past a wedding, she would scream out the car window, don't go it. And at the time, I remember thinking to myself, I think this is psychologically good for anyone. You me, my sister, But you're getting married people getting married. I mean it's humorous, but kind
of in a hinged way, you know. So she I just know she would have been so excited about me going down this path. And even my dad. I never had parents that said to me, where's your partner? When are you going to find somebody? I never had that, And my dad was really proud of me for doing it on my own, because I think he saw that
as a very kind of powerful thing to do. So that why I was lucky in that regard to because I do know a lot of people who I've spoken to whose parental pressure is massive in terms of their decision, impacting the decision to do it on their own because their parents aren't happy about that option.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's hard to have to take on board. We have.
Friends back in America and she was forty two and so wanted a child and her partner did not, and they talked about it. She's actually a therapist, actually talked about it. Blew in the face and he said, I'm giving you one shot. I'm giving you one shot. We're going to Mexico one shot for you get pregnant. If you don't get pregnant after this time, I don't want to hear it again. Yeah, I know. And that one shot on just another thing. However, however, she got pregnant
on her one shot at forty two, had a baby. Girl. You also, which I go, well, I was meant to be. This baby was right there hanging over her going come on, mom, come on. And I feel it's the same for you because you were pregnant really fast, right, and just it was the pregnancy easy hard? How was that? Yeah?
I was very lucky. I mean, I had so I had gotten to a point where I had enough eggs on ice that I was like, I've got the insurance policy I need. I spoke to every fertility specialist is like, there's a high chances of baby in there in terms you know, So that's great. I'm like, fantastic. So then I go in and I'm like, okay, I'm going to start this process. I don't want to use my insurance policy straight away. I know that it might not work
with my fresh eggs. I'm going to try with my fresh eggs so I don't waste any of them, and then once I've moved through those, then I'll start to go into the insurance policy. So I'm thinking to myself, I'm probably got two three years of this kind of process. That's what the fertility specialist was saying to me, the chances of me getting pregnant low, having a kid low at my age. But I felt like all the insurance
policies were there. And then thirteen weeks later, after getting the thing implanted, I'm sitting down with my boss saying, I actually thought I would be talking to you about this in two years, but I'm pregnant and I'm having a baby. So it was literally first embryo, first go
for Like, the pregnancy was totally fine. I just it all felt to me like this is happening in a way that just makes me feel like this is right and even you know, sometimes I feel like you're not allowed to tell people you have a good pregnancy because some people are like, Oh, it's good for some, isn't it. You know, some of it gets so easy, and I just think if I hear from a woman who's pregnant who's having a great time, but I'm like, that's fantastic. Yes.
But honestly, in my case, I thought if I was going through this process on my own and I was sick as a dog and I'm running out of meetings to spew in a bucket and I can't, but I would honestly have seriously doubted my decision to do this because it would have felt overwhelming and too much by myself. But the fact that I had a great pregnancy and a great lead up, I really felt by the time it was time I have a kid, I can do this.
I'm capable of it, and I think you need that energy to go into your life at that point, which changes fundamentally. If you go in they're broken and like, I don't want to do this. That's a strong climb out, you know. So I was really grateful for that process because I felt like it gave me the strength to then do the rest of it on my own.
So now Olivia's almost two has being a parent. Now, how has that changed you?
I guess I think about myself differently, Like, it really forces you to reflect a lot, which I like to do. As someone who spent a lot of money in therapy, I like to do the work. So I really enjoy the process of this, even though it is so flipping hard and some days I genuinely don't know how I get through it. But I'm really proud of myself because I can see I am really trying to do what
she needs. So for example, at the moment, it's taking us forty five minutes to move to millimeters, and when I'm in the process of that, internally my brain is on fire. Yes, I am ready to throw multiple items of furniture in my house out the window, but she knows none of that. What she's getting is patience and me just waiting and taking my time with her and being conscious inside what I want to do is bend down to her face and say you're an asshole, but
I don't. I keep my cool. And when that is done and when we're wherever we need to do, I feel very proud of myself. Yet so you shit, And those moments, I think I found the same thing when I looked after my dad or when my mam is seen. Those moments I think were fundamental in change the way that I felt about myself, my internal happiness, my sense
of contentment. My life changed dramatically when my parents were sick, because there is something about being there for somebody else and making them feel good and safe and cared for that makes you then think about yourself in a different way. You process yourself like I, this is a good thing to be doing for another person. And so I really appreciated all of that time that I had with my parents, and I feel like it's a different type of way of doing that. But I'm getting those same cues back
when I do it right. But then some days you lose your top and I will beat myself up about it, and then but I get up and I try and do better the next day. And I really do try. And I will say to her. I remember one night I really lost it because I was just like, like, this is just a lot, it's too much. But the next day she woke up and I said to her, like, she has no idea what happened yesterday, But I'm just like, Mummy wants you to know. I'm really sorry for the
way I was yesterday. You know. I know I got angry and that's not okay. And I'm going to try much harder today, you know. And I just am like, I'm just going to keep you along with me on the journey because we can't meet perfect all the time.
How do you respond to her when she says that to.
You, I wish, I wish.
It's like, oh, it's right. You can imagine. It's a year old going.
She'll have her podcast next year.
She'll be like, come on, kids, come on the podcast.
She started to say. I say to her of nighttime, I love you. You know how much I love you?
Yes?
She goes yes, and I'm like, you know, and then she goes, thank you, mummy.
You know.
You know it's like those little moments where you're just like, I want to be somebody who makes a safe environment for a person, and I think I didn't really feel like I had that as a kid, And I think I spent so much of my twenties and thirties trying to work it out because I hadn't had that early on. And I don't want her to have those lost years that I had where I'm like trying to figure it out how to feel like crap, I'm depressed and whatever.
You know, I'm sure like this happens even with the best late intentions, I know that it still might happen. But I want to give her the foundations to be like, I'm safe. I know I can always come back to you. I know you'll always be there, and I can be safe and free to explore whoever I am, knowing I will always be loved and chrome is there's nothing more.
I mean, that's everything that we want, we need, is you know, just as a human being, let alone a baby.
So you know, that's that sort of weird thing. I wonder about how we parent differently to our parents, and how like our parents they got along with it. They got away with just some nonchalance, you know what I mean. It was all pretty much like, well, you're here, you've got food in your face, you go on to school, You've got to bed. That's it. That'll do. You know, you work the rest of it out, Whereas now where it's so conscious of like how do I hold this person? How do I give them the safness?
Did you get too much now or do you think there's some balance between seventies and eighties parents as to what's happening now in the two thousands.
I think you've got to get a good balance of it because I think I do think we need to be more about letting that person grow in our care. Yeah, you know, and I don't think there was much of that going on for a while there, So I do think there's a lot of benefit to that. But I think the sort of cotton woolness that we've gotten to a little, I'm like, that's why we've got some pretty
non resilient people floating around, you know. And resilience is truly the most important thing that you can develop, because then nothing's going to keep you down.
You know, you are the queen of resilience.
From what you've shared with us.
I know your daughter will have it in space for sure. I completely agree with that. Having spent many years as a teacher now being in the school yard and it's yeah, we have swung to this place where, you know, where one piece of playground equipment and a kid falls off and breaks the arm, that that equipment is removed immediately. I'm like, wait, wait, hang on a minute. Kids are going to break their arms if they're on a tree, if they're just tripping on the curb. You can't stop
them from you know. And I know there's all these laws, constant laws, you know, and of course we want to keep the kids safe, but get them dirty, take them out, like, get them hot and bothered and come back and.
And if the monkey bars don't sue the school. And that's why the monkey bars are no longer there anyway, you know, because it's like they're straight to the lawyer's office. They're right on the number of that you know, have you had an accident. They've heard that ad on the radio and they're like, yeah, we've had an accident. Give me some money.
Yeah, you car.
In the office.
Every one of our houses with first thing I did was build a sandpit and monkey bars for our kids. Yeah, it was the best. All had counses all the way to the middle of their palms, you know. And it was just monkey bar city.
You know.
And it's a good exercise as parents because I get scared about seeing my kid do dangerous stuff. And by dangerous, I just mean at this point it's like, you know, am I going to try and walk down the last stair of the staircase by myself without holding your hand? Yeah, but it's a good lesson for me to be like, you can do it, and if you call, I'll pick you up. If I end up in the emergency department, I just got to deal with it. Yeah, Like that's just part of it. So I can't spend my life
trying to avoid the trauma of the emergency department. I just got to let you be. Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly right.
Our kids. It was like, you're a really good climber. Good at those monkey bars.
Wow.
Son would climb to fifty foot up a tree and I'd be like, you're really strong, honey, you are so strong and safe up there.
Oh God, get down.
I've got chocolate at the bottom if you come down.
Now.
It's a.
It is And the visuals, I mean, so I loved about it. Was sending this because it works so many different places in our lives in terms of what we're thinking. People pick up psychically, so you can actually send a visual and you practice it with your kids and you're just like, there's, as Ali said, river is miles up a tree and it's like there's nothing underneath him, and it's like, God's gotta sending the visual.
You're really you're really good. You know, that's really good. Yeah, where's the next branch here? It is, Dad, Okay, you do that, grab that one. That's it, and just whatever.
But it was the visuals of sending, sending the idea, you know, to someone, And it's a great practice with with our kids because they can they there's the little sensory little buttons.
Who also just quickly who is saying, God, you missed the newborn phase? What moren misses the newborn face? Is that something that happens when you have more than one? Because I can tell you what, I don't want to go have another newborn in my life ever.
Again.
They're a nightmare. It's so hard, you.
Know, I think a solo mom doing number two or three would be really tough because a least you can palm off Olivia onto oh mate, so you go take her.
No, I'm not going to be outnumbered. Oh yeah, yeah, it done, did you.
I remember the first time our eldest. It was such a simple thing, but it's so vivid. I'd given her, I'd given her amandain to eat, and I remember she sat there and she started appealing like the tiny little bits of white sort of pith off and I remember just going, oh, this is her personality, Like that's something I didn't do. She's not seen anyone else do She's come to that herself. And it was this moment of like, that's her personality. This is so cute. I mean I
just thought everything was adorable. What are you seeing with Olivia? That's her personality? What's coming through?
I saw the very first couple of days because I had a c section. You know, she wasn't squeezed out, so you know they're full of mucus. Isn't that delightful? So she was, you know, coughing and spluttering for the first couple of days while she's getting all that out. And I remember I thought it must have my an idiot for thinking this, But she would be coughing, spluttering, It would be quite confronting. Because I'm like, you seem
like you can't really breathe. But she would never get upset about She'd just be looking at me with this look of like I'm going to cough this stuff out and then we're going to get on with this, right, And she would do that every single time, and I would think, I can see resilience in this baby, Like I can see that this is a kid that just does it and get it done. And that has been true every single step of the way. Like she's just so when we fall down, we get back up, you know.
So I felt like I saw that right in the very beginning. The other thing that I see that I'm interested in is what rates will be the donors. I don't know him. Yeah, so it's like I'm interested to see, like what things are going to come out that are going to be like, oh, that's not really like me. And one thing she has been doing, she's very like we have this like a pool at the apartment that I live at, and there's often people down there, and every time we park the car my garage is next
to the pool. She's like, go say hi, Go say hi. I'm like, yeah, you can go say hi. So she goes down to the pool to see if anybody's down there, and she looks around. If somebody's down there, she does her chat, which is bit cold today, and then that's the only chat she scott. But she just goes around everyone bit cold today, bit cold today. And I'm like,
that's not me. I don't go up to random strangers like I'll have a chat with you all day long, and I want to have a real, honest, open conversation. But I want to have small talk with people I don't know. No, I do not. So if you set me adrift in a party where I know nothing, that is my hell, where I know nobody, I don't know. I would to be a waiter there because I have a use. I know, I know. My purpose in the room is I'm serving the people drinks. I'm very comfortable
in that space. But you just send me out to network or meet people that I don't know. No, thank you very much. And so I see this in her, I'm like, well, that ain't me. That must be him.
That's mister Hachat exactly.
So it's interesting those little things that are coming out that I'm just like, oh, what are the bits that are going to be him because I don't know him at all.
Do you get like medical history and you get.
A lot of information. Actually I went, I ended up going with a clinic who in Australia, but they have an American donor bank, so there was a lot more option. In Australia. You don't get paid, and honestly, it's like, you know what, people come on very rarely and then everyone's like, oh no, sharks to the fish kind of there's not a whole bunch of people going, whereas in
America you can. You know, I had friends of mine who were like a gay couple and they wanted one of the partner that wasn't carrying the kid to look a bit like it. So it's like, can we find someone with blonde hair because we want to find the characteristics that make it feel like that person is also that kid. So you can do a bit more of that when the bank is a little bit bigger. So the information that they gave you also was a lot bigger.
So we had all medical history, medical history of their family. They write you sort of a little you know, answer a bunch of questions. There was also some audio that you can hear them talk, so that was really nice to hear them talk. But I mean, the delightful nurses are not Michael Parkinson. So they're asking some things like what's your favorite food. I'm not choosing this person whether they like spaghetti bollinettes. Actually, it's definitely not what I need to know.
Did say, it's a bit cold today.
Exactly cold today, but the.
For you a serial killer?
I smashed my fruit loops in the morning.
Yeah, but I was really worried that I wouldn't be able to get a sense of whether this person was good and kind. I didn't really care about I mean, I did care about the medical history, but a lot of people were like, oh, just get the good medical history. The rest is nurture, and I'm like, no, no, no, I do want to know that this person is a good person. And for a while looking through the things, I'm like, I don't know whether I'm going to be able to
find that. But what I settled on when I found this doner is there was a little section where it's like a create your express yourself it's called and so some people draw right a palm like whatever, and he had written about something that he was really drawn to as a kid, and the essence of what he had written was that he said that he feels like being unself consciously drawn to something, even if it is embarrassing, is one of the most blissful things in the world.
And I thought that is a not something a not good person, right, you know, that kind of idea of liking something even if it's silly, or that's the quality I want my daughter to have. I don't want her to feel like she has to be cool or you know, all of that kind of stuff. I want her to feel like I can really find joy and the things that find me join them at a house there and I could be proud of that, and I need to
feel self conscious about that. So that was the thing that made me choose him, and I was like, I was really excited once I made the choice about the choice, which I didn't think I would get to because essentially you're reading medical records and like a dossier about sperm, So yeah, can I get to a point where I'm excited about doing that? But once I sort of saw those qualities and read his things, I was like, no, no, no, these are good qualities and I want to bring that into the world.
And you see you see a photo of.
When they're kids, Oh, when they're adults. Oh yeah, so you can see and I think that's actually quite good because you can't identify them right, so you can't see them as an adult. But when you see their photos as a kid, like you can see the light behind the kids. Sure, you know, you can see something in them that makes you go, oh that's a that's a good kid. Yeah, you know, so I thought that was
really cool. I actually pulled the photos out the other day because I was like, I wonder if she looks like him, but actually she looks like more like me as a kid. Yeah, but she does have really curly hair, which he has. So it's interesting as she grows up to kind of bring those things out and see, oh how much of that is this person?
You know, what an amazing process. I mean, I'm sure many women might be feeling or thinking, I wish I did that. I wish I hadn't taken the opportunity. But what do you feel holds those women.
Back the society? Yeah, you know, like the pressure, it's a lot, you know, I think back to that man on the boat in Greece. There's a lot of women that would have felt embarrassed and gone like, you know what, this kind of thing makes me feel like this isn't something that the world thinks is great. Yeah right, you know, And I think we get those messages all the time.
Maybe not as extreme as leaping out of boat in the middle of Greece, but we still get those messages of like, that's not what we do here.
You know.
And it is hard as a person to stand up against those things and to say, well, actually, it is what we do here, and to still get up and feel every day like you are this is a powerful thing to do and an impressive thing to do and a positive thing to do. And you know, to still be told, you know, or it is to still be looked at when somebody asks you if you're doing something and you tell them you're doing it by themselves, like
that's a bit sad. You know. You have to get in your own head and be like this ain't the right thing, Like you're wrong, I'm right, this is this is a good thing to do. Now. I would say that therapy is help me massively with that, you know, But it is hard. It's hard work, and I can understand how it's just easier sometimes to go, I don't want to keep explaining myself.
Yeah enough, you've got onto your podcast. It's called Me and My Tiny Human. I can't imagine what inspired there's but tell us about that.
Yeah. So this is just a show that was born out of all of these conversations that I'd had with people and the sort of reactions and the feeling that I just wanted to put out a version of this life into the world that was like, this is a
really good option if you want to do it. And here's all the highs and the lows and the crap bits and the bits where you'd be ready to tear your hair out and throw the furniture out the door, but it ain't unmanageable to the point where you're like, I shouldn't have done this, Like, not one day have I ever thought, gush, I shouldn't have done this. Yeah, never, you know, even when it's just been at the absolute
pinnacle of what I can put up with. So it's, you know, I think the way that I think about it, it's it's different to what I've heard other people talk about it, you know, in terms of it feeling like a very powerful option and not a consolation price, you know. And so that is the thing with this podcast is I want people to listen to it and feel like, wow, I could do this, Like this is actually cool that it isn't like some the reaction that I get from
other people. This is actually something really like a really great option for me, you know. And I think I've had a lot of con attach from women who have done it by themselves or really want to do it by themselves, a lot of people that are like going through the process and have found the podcast and like, oh my gosh, I'm like literally at the beginning of this and it's so good to hear that, like it's going to be okay, I am going to be fine, Like I am making the right choice, because I think
we all doubt ourselves through that process. So that was really what the show was about for me to kind of share that message, make people feel like.
I can do this And is it a weekly offering?
Yeah, do you have.
A time limit on it or would you take us through the old journey.
When my friend of mine who knew it was coming out, thought it was going to be just like five episodes, and then she's like, you're doing this every week? You're like I could, and I mean I'm working podcasting. I know, you want to keep these things alive. They go to keep going. Yeah, you know this too. You can't just stop it. So yeah, the plan is to keep it alive until like a collapse.
When she's fifteen and she's found the found the kid, you know, and there's the pimply face kid rocking up to the front door.
You know.
Yeah, Olivia, I know all this stuff to look forward to, right, It's all different challenges.
Yeah, different phases. I mean where you know, even our eldest's twenty eight, you're still we're still parenting, but in it's a whole different way, which is really it's a whole other phase.
But it never stopped. My mum and dad are in their eighties and and I'm so glad they are still parenting.
That's cool.
They're still there, you know, and I still look for their wisdom.
That's cool. Yeah, And that's I think what I desperately hope for, you know, I hope Olivia still looks to me at that time, because I do think having that anchor and that's, you know, that someone to come back to, and I think it's just amazing so that's really cool.
This one question that's just gnawing on my brain going just to ask it. Do you do you feel like your capacity to love has grown as a result of becoming a mum.
I don't know that it's grown so much as she's filled the bits that weren't full before, So it just feels fuller, you know. I think the capacity was always there, but I've never been loved like this in a relationship.
Yeah.
Never, you know, I don't even I don't even feel like I felt love like this for my parents. Y yeah, you know, so this is the first feeling of that capacity and that feels pretty effing cool.
Yeah, you know what.
I mean, I'm like, this is really and I'm sure you can I don't think that's only available in a parent kid relationship. I think I'm sure there's you know, relationships that do that parent like people with their relationship with their parents or people with their romantic partner. But I've just never experienced that. So this is a really cool feeling of my cup. Yeah.
Yeah. The unconditional love that that parenting brings, I just think is there is I don't think there's anything like that kind of love that parent child love I think is it really is in a category of its own. Yeah, and a.
Responsibility that comes with that. Like you see a lot of people who have not been great to their kids, and all those kids want is love from their parents. You could do all manner things to your kids and they would still just want you to love them. That's right.
So I feel like, when you know you can get away with some pretty crap stuff, you've got a responsibility to really respect that love that that kid has for you and actually give it what it deserves, you know, because that's a pretty powerful love coming your way.
A great well, boss, the boss of all us a lot, and we're not going to hold any against you negotiation based on this. Don't go watching Succession how they deal.
With yeah children, ye oh my gosh, hideous things that it doesn't turn out like that for me.
We're deep in it. We're late to the succession party. But I'm just watching that going. The kids will still love their parents even though the parents are absolutely I know.
I want to approve all still one.
Yeah, it's such a plexity.
Great, thanks so much for coming on and getting to the heart of us.
Yes, good job.
And I think Olivia is a very very lucky girl to have you. I really do
Again