Hello, and welcome to separate bathrooms.
We'd like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eor nation, the traditional custodians of this land, and pay our respects to the elders, both past and present.
And I'm Ali Daddo, I'm cam Dado.
We were so blessed to have Maggie Dent in the studio last week.
The conversation we couldn't speaking stuff.
We're going to cut it off at forty minutes because she's so full of wonderful stories and advice and just great information for parents and for kids.
So we decided to make it a two parter.
So if you haven't listened, go back and listen to the one last week and follow along for this week's episode.
Enjoy.
I have found that, like I love the idea of planting the seed for me in my parenting with our kids, it's been if I've planted the seed, it's actually having the wherewithal to stop there.
Yes, we want a big conversation so much, many conversations.
Yeah, that's that's it. Many conversations, I think that's yeah. Little just step by. I call them doable chunks and just do them in doable chunks rather than if you look at that whole big picture, it's really hard, but if you break it down into those doable chunks, it makes it a lot easier.
And also what.
Really is helpful is that you've also had awkward conversations over many years before they've become a teen about our expectations and it's going to it could be a bit bumpy, you know, and I've heard that there is this is happening, and I just need to have a conversation about you know, your private parts or your body awareness, and I to know have you got the idea of consent yet? I
know you're just going to have a million conversations. So often there are times that parents says to me, O, Meggie, So when do I have the chat to my son about sex? And I said, how old is he? Fourteen? I went, oh, given that eighty percent of boys by fourteen have been watching pornography, I'm a bit concerned. You may have left it a.
Little later, but start nowt now.
And usually with that one, when you start that seed about you know, sex and all that, I reckon you sow the seed in the car doing one hundred and ten k an hour because I can't get out. You're just going to say something like do you know one day, I hope you have fantastic sex because it's a fabulous thing to share your body with another person with joy and enthusiasm, And you just keep driving. You say nothing else.
That's the kids go ah, I don't want.
To know that, right.
The thing that always fascinates me about parents too, is that it's like they gotten that they were ever teenager, and it's like a minute.
You did this and you did that, and you've done way worse than what our kids doing. Sorry, I'm like.
And like, remember when you were a teenager, Remember the actions that you were doing, the things you were doing. What our kids doing is completely normal. It's what it's what they're meant to do.
In a way.
So agreed, and so Maggie, just before because my brain will let this slip through to the keypar you did say fourteen you might have left a little bit late.
What actually is the age? Is it ten? You dropping that seat ten eleven?
Or what is it even before that? You know, like think you follow your children's leads, okay, you know that they'll come to you and say I saw this and it was a bit gross, So sometimes we have to let them know. You might see pictures or videos online that are with people with no clothes on doing things. Let me know about that, and we can. So you have to sew a few little seat along the way. But I think the one about I think sex is we so often and we think, oh, sex, it's been
covered in school in year five, six and seven. Great, But I think you could probably remember that most of the time, you know, they were just putting condoms on bananas and carrots, which that's actually not sexual intimacy. And I think we're shifting now in our world that you know, you can be sexually intimate with another human with great consent. You know that doesn't necessarily have to be the person you live with for the rest of your life. So
it's shifted. The hook up culture is shifted. And what we do know is, unfortunately, you know, the way that many of our boys are marinated with this misogynistic kind of stuff, which is of course the algorithms of big tech means that developing a very different awareness around it to what you would have had as a boy, probably wanting to find where they adult books were in the news agent, because that was about it does that make sense.
So we're really counteracting a very different perception of the role of males and females in intimacy. And I think that's a big challenge for us, that sense of entitlement, that sense of you know, you know, that's what And in the book there were girls that said, this is just what you have to do nowadays in oral sex is just what we have to do with the boys now and I'm going home, excuse me. So it's a
big world. Even though we know statistically they are having the majority are having sex later many of them are not drinking and around twenty to twenty three percent I heard that from our brilliant researcher recently, just not touching alcohol to their twenties, whereas that was very different people. So, you know, as I said, we can't just paint it
all bad. But what we are seeing is an increase in sexual violence and increase in sexual harassment, particularly in our schools, towards girls and female teachers, which is at a different level, you know. I mean there was always the crazy banter, Hey, Hoti, you come and lay your body against me, all that sort of stuff. Now there are rape threats and there are sexual groaning, and there are boys pushing themselves up against girls and groping them
on stairways. That did not happen about three years ago. So all of those that are in our school. That's another reason why female teachers are leaving. So we've got to we have to be part of that solution. We can't just rely on the school getting somebody in to talk about it. We all have to be putting forward that conversation about respectful relationships, you know, so that they get an idea that that's actually not okay. But I
don't even know what is okay, you know. And our modeling, there's no question our modeling and our homes is huge, but we do both have to have those conversations about what I expect you to be when you grow up.
Yeah, I mean, and you know, obviously you would know that the levels of you know, partner violence is just you know through the roof at the moment, where do we, like, what would be your best I mean, obviously you're talking about modeling at home. Where do we start with our with our boys? Because you know, we can we can talk to our girls about consent. But if we've got a boy and I you know, our youngest has talked about that.
He's like, oh, he just thought he could wear me down.
And he had all of his mates telling him that, you know, even dad, you know, his dad was saying, just keep asking until she says yes. It's like, that's coercive control. So it's like, how do we shift it away from where we're traveling with this?
Is it?
Is it a as you said, Is it a whole issue within school home society? Do we need a program in schools where do we go?
Well? I think it's you know, the reason I've become a boy champion was that there are things we can do in the first five years around healthy boundaries. That means that is a no, and a no is no, so you it'll be a no. So if your boundaries are weak around whoever's been your significant cares, then you just think, well you just keep adam to lay cave.
So it does start quite early, You're quite right. But it is a specific conversation that you know, and there's some beautiful stuff out there about consent that you know, like it's this. It starts really early with when people want to, you know, grab your baby and give them a hug and your baby's got their face gone like this, or you know grandparents who want to pounce in and hug you without the kids being ready or wanting it. So there are some really awkward ways that we move
towards that later. But I think that one about about you know, wearing them down in coercive control, that has obviously been a part of what they've seen as acceptable. Yeah, and so what is what often works better is you know, watching a show, watching a movie, and there are some teenage based programs, you know, like Heartbreak High and things that you could watch with your team and go, wow,
that's crossing a line. I talk about crossing the line, and I think that metaphor really resonates the same with banter. You know, it doesn't camera, and there's times banter and teasing crosses a line, right, And I think that's a conversation we have to have many, many times with our boys. And that's why, you know, when they stop listening to Mum and dad because they don't know what they're talking
about in this window. That is when we need those other lighthouse figures who are significant uncles, grandparents, coaches, or really awesome teachers who you might have a whisper in their ear, and they will have the conversation for you around. I really don't like the way that you're speaking to the girls in the class at the moment. I know you can do better than that, mate, So we don't shame them. We got we just so a seedde a positivity because boys respond to that so much more than
they do with punishment and shame. And yet that's still mostly what they cop and as soon as you push back, like nobody, nobody, even a tiny toddler of two, likes being told what to do. Because we had this thing
called counter will. So I think what we keep doing in the teenage years, we keep telling what we don't want instead of turning and this is what is a much better option, This is a better choice, or this is a way of saying that, And therefore we show them what's better rather than just keep punishing what's not okay, because technically behaviorism works best for rats.
One of the things that I do struggle with.
Is in my friendship group.
And like when I play golf and I'm in my foursome and I hear comments from other golfers, We'll be sitting in there having a beer afterwards, and that's the banter that happens. And I have moments where I've actually had to say, if you're going to keep going on this line, I'm going to I've got to. I can't be here for this. I can't be listening. And unfortunately there's been times where oh, well he's a dickare Cams
a dicka or whatever? And I get I'm the one on the outer and I'm not invited anymore because we've got to watch what we say around him. And the complaint with men my age who were raised a certain way by fathers of a certain generation is that they're pretty bitter about we can't make the same jokes anymore. We can't do this, and we can't see this or behave like that anymore. And it's it's really tricky for some guys, I think, because they want to they want to have their friendships.
That's their way.
Yeah, yeah, and it's it's to do it, but there is a cost to it if there other people are unwilling to have a look at it. So this idea of planning seeds or it's great and modeling for modeling that for the younger men coming through, I think it's really important. It's just a it can be really tricky and sometimes it's like I don't want to do that anymore.
Also, those social norms are so deep, clear embedded, and you'll tend to find you know, we talk about grumpy old men. You know, there is a perception as men get older that they get even more resistant to change. And so in that situation, you're absolutely right, you will be the woke guy.
I'm the guy. I'm that guy.
You're the woke guy, right. And what I'm going to tell you was really good news is that there was a time that when men met for a beer, they would never speak about parenting or you know, their kids. They might say something derogatory about their wife. That was kind of how the bonding. But I'm going to tell you there's a big shift happening and that not only are dad's joining up with PRAM groups, walking together, they meet for coffee and they talk about everything. They're even
talking about their mental health. So I feel that the older generation you're talking about, sadly, you know, over fifty, are gradually they're going to be replaced by a much more aware you know, you know, like if you've been to a playground lately because yours are older. Just wander around.
There aren't any women there. There are dads with babies tied on and toddlers and just they're out there right, and these are the ones who are changing those those conversations because they're actually really, you know, really seeking some support.
And I'm you know, one of the most interesting things is that, you know, when I do a sellout night for dads, they are hungry to be among other men who are putting their kids and their partners at the beginning, you know, in their life right in the front because they want to be a different man. And I think
will gradually outgrow it. But it's so interesting that also on the good Enough Dad, the podcast where I did twenty excepts, oh my god, there were these beautiful moments when you know, these are men from all walks of life, have been very vulnerable about their muck ups and their moments where they just thought it's just too hard, And what it was that really made them stick is the love they have for their kids and their partner.
Yeah.
And the more that men hear of that, then that that type of man, I think you'll find starts to soften around the edges, but it's really it really is actually happening at a grassroots level, so you kind of, yeah, there's a new type. I mean sometimes without saying anything, I think they've spoken to men who said the same thing you said, Cam, and they said, I just get up and I pretend I'm going to the toilet and I'm just not there and just disappear. So I don't
make a comment about I just leave. Therefore, I'm making a silent statement that they you know, guys, they often can tune in to silence, but when they hear you, they feel very judged and they get even more defensive. But getting up and leaving or just make a yeah I need to get home.
Yeah I'm a bit more of that guy now where I'll just get up and walk away. Because yeah, it's like you said, no one likes to be told what to do. And I set up a thing called my Men's Team, which was for guys to get together and do this talk. And you're not allowed to give advice in the Men's Team unless you asked for it, and so it was just that you can only give your
experience about a situation. So you listening, We're learning to listen basically, and it's great to hear that this shift is happening.
It's really good good and especially around mental health as well. Cam is that because you know, I've worked a lot around men who struggle after the loss of a partner or the loss of a child, because that was my specialty.
And one of the things that men told me was that I don't want to break down in front of my wife because I and I, when you dig under it, it is so wound into social norms that guys think I'm meant to be the big protector and defender of my partner and if I'm vulnerable, I don't think she
could love me. And it was interesting because I had this chat with Sarah Konovski about mother and our boys, and I shared this, how you know, I spoke about a couple of the men who who just found it really hard to tell their wife as she was dying in the last days of her life that he loved her, and it just used to get stuck. And after her
funeral he was so angry at himself. And I said, look, she knew that because you turned up every day, you were there every day, and your two beautiful sons could say the words you couldn't say, and that that's you are,
You've done it right. And then what happened was I kept getting all these emails and messages of how many guys are in a car with either their wife or their daughter had to pull over because they were sobbing because something that had happened to them when they were a little boy that they were punished with they'd never shared because they felt they would just be looking like they weren't strong enough for that, and that a woman couldn't love me if she knew the mistake I made.
And once that starts shifting, we have these much more powerful and stronger, genuinely intimate relationships because no one is perfect, and if we have someone who can hold a safe space for us as we share those big, dark moments, it's not about being tough, and I can tell you that there are a lot of really tough women out there who struggle with the same shap not because of
what gender you're in. It's because what story I've been told about how I deal with failure and disappointment and culture.
Culture is pushes out on boys. You know you're the man of the house now at the age of eight, because dad's away.
No he's not. He's not the man at the house. He's an eight year old boy. He doesn't have to look another half enough. And you're a pussy.
You're gay if you cry like wow, I mean that's just said over and over again.
But I was just thinking of that one of out. That's a lot of my generation, that's all your generation.
That's how I got that.
Yeah, dad went away and I was eight and there were four brothers and the sister and you are.
You know so no, but one of our favorite shows. Did you ever watch Ted Lasso?
Oh?
Right, like that main character did more I think to prove the importance of having a panic attack and crying and the kindness he showed and the vulnerability. It was just so beautiful and I think so many people connected on however they connected, But what a beautiful example of a man.
And he was not any less attractive or.
Strong war he also demonstrated incredible integrity. Yeah, he was who he was, and his values around respecting others and things were just it was Yeah, I must have met. It was a good tonic, wasn't that. They can't watched the first one during COVID, so it was exactly what I needed was a.
Storm of ted.
Yes, how many people loved it really good.
I think that's a challenge that sometimes we were, especially when we've got teens and then they're all in this crazy state, the pressure on them, and that's what came from so many of the voices from the boys and the girls. Isn't that interesting? About forty percent of the survey were from boys. I just put it out for
any team, which is That's what I'm saying. There's a shift and boys wanting to be heard, and they feel that the pressure on them, you know, to achieve grades or awards that make their parents feel like they can love them more that they are. They're aware of it, and there are several that said that, you know, I'm in a really expensive school. They keep telling me how much it shit cake me. That's a big burden for me to carry.
And I'm going, oh, what do teens specifically need from their parents to grow into emotionally intelligent people?
You know?
Oh, that's beautiful, And the first thing they need is that absolutely need to know that their parents are going to have their back no matter what. That's a really important one because we want to be able to know when we muck up, we've always got a safe base of land. There's no question that resilience is actually about relationships,
not about capacity. And also that we've over our childhood we've been modeled those moments with our parents of what happens when things get hard, that we gather together, that we don't blame and shame, we just come together and work out a plan to go forward. That's incredibly important. I think we celebrate moments of failure and muck up the failed test or whatever it is. We just don't
make it a sign there's something wrong with you. Because the three most common things to come from a team who's contemplating dying by suicide is no one cares, so we can fix that, I don't matter, and they be better off without me. Right, So they're really easy things for parents to so I keep thinking sometimes in this journey, can we all just lighten the hell up? We focus on having more fun? Can we eat more cupcakes and pancakes and have fun movie nights? Can we play games
together like we did when they were younger? Just around the edges to know that we can shift the neurochemicals that are causing them stress by the choices we make, and I think that's an incredibly important part as we move forward into that space. They also don't want you to shoot on them. You know, it's so easy, isn't it. They don't want any lecturing, they don't want any shooting, and they don't always want you to tell them what not to do. They're the three main things that came up.
Stop shooting on us. And also we just we just want to know that you can genuinely care for us and also my friends, So that notion of a tribe where I want you to know that you don't just care for me, but you care for my you know, my friends, mine much doesn't matter what it is that sometimes having them around for a feed, or feeding them randomly, or picking them up and giving them rides home, you are showing and modeling something really profound in as they
go forward in life, that they will value those connections and know that those connections make a difference because we are a social species and we're meant to be connected to other humans. And when we facilitate that for them, especially after major friendship breakups and heartaches and all those things, it's huge, absolutely huge.
How do we know child is being bullied, What are the signs and how as parents do we step in and help that child.
Yeah, there's a long list of those things. There's usually changes in behavior that gradually happen over time. So you'll find that they will start withdrawing a bit more into their bedrooms. They will be withdrawing from normal activities. Sometimes it impacts that whether they're eating sometimes it's that, or sometimes they start not wanting to hang out with their real friends, like you'll notice the shift in that. But
then you've got to look at their sleep. If they're walking around the house at all hours of the night, you can trust your gut instinct something's not okay. And that's why I keep saying, we're just so aceved you don't seem yourself. Can we have a chat to see what's going down? Just so asceeved you don't seem yourself okay. But the big one I think in all of this is that the bullying that we used to experience was face to face. Yes, So what's happening now, of course,
is they're really frightened. You're going to take their phone off them? Yes, if I tell you that it's going on downline rather than coming to me and saying, look, these girls are being really awful and they can be so cruel that mum and dad might race out and confront them or confront the parent or make it worse, which it often does. So they just want to push
it under. I don't want to bother them, I don't want to upset them, and then they just as you can see that, there's a point where we just can't deal with the pain of and it is profound, you know, because your capacity to see it logically is impaired because you're only young.
Yeah, I can't see.
And also the pylon that can happen is all of the others in that environment have to kind of be a part of it to stay in the group. So it's tied up with so much, you know, cognitive immaturity, and often when we confront those sorts of girls at
different times, I've worked through some of these things. In the early days, we're just having fun, but of course it's actually you know, being there's being mean, saying something mean, and there's being a bit nasty, but the bullying is an intention to cause harm that's repeated, and I think we have to have conversations in our homes about the difference and being you know, if it happens to another person, you know, step forward and see if we can you know,
create some sort of an ally for that kid. And there are times that we do, you know, we do need to move schools. We do need to be able to bring them home for a while, because it is the potential in that window when they're biologically wide to be developing friendships and connections. It can absolutely have that
fatal consequence. And you know, at the end of the day, one of the things that schools can struggle with is the fact that when all that cyber bullying is happening at nights technically not during school time, but the playout is happening at school time right right, and so often you know, that's where there's a bit of a mix up.
Some schools handle it brilliantly. However, he's also that culture you know that we've talked about, you know, no bullying war happens, and I think, don't think of a blue elephant. We're not encouraging you know, friendships or being civil or being respectful. You know, it's so many of those conversations need to happen in our home because you know, it can be your kid that's doing it, and that might have started off as a bit of a thing that it's then developed and then they can't get out of it.
Because I work with a boy that was a bully at a school, and I did some very you know in my class. I make sure everyone has lots of paired conversations to get to know each other in the class, very short, bit funny, and over time that boy actually you know, kids would sit with him whereas no one wanted to go near him, and I realized he wasn't who we thought he was. But that takes some you know energy, and a lot of teachers and school leaders just have not got the time to follow through everything
even if they hear it. But every child thuw it up. Yeah, yeah, they cover it up. There's so many ways they hide all their awful trolling online. But we have to teach them about how to block it. And the e Safety Commissioner has fabulous stuff. You go straight to that site. We take evidence, we keep it when we teach our kids to do that when they first get a phone, We've actually got a chance of making these kids accountable earlier.
Yeah yeah, I mean and what you're talking about too. I love what you said about mattering that have the kids know that they matter and in that situation that you may, as a parent have to pull your child out or extricate them from a situation, that's further enhancing to them that they will know that they matter to you, You are that they are important to you. And I guess the fine line with that is is as a parent, when do I step in?
Yeah, yeah, they're stepping in. Is we go to the school and we get the school leadership in the school student services team to be the ones that do the process, and we do not step in to confront. Either way, it doesn't matter. You know, if you have the best intentions in the world, you're going into bat for your kid, and there's a chance you're going to be emotionally volatile
and you can make everything seriously worse for everybody. So again, even though it makes sense, and you may even know them casually, yeah, what their child's doing is not that adults you know, you know they're not doing it. Yeah, And they may not even know it's happening either. And then you've leapt in and kind of threatened, and you know it's just not it's just not mature behavior.
We went through our own experience with one of our kids, and that was during COVID, which is exactly what you were saying, because they were not they weren't physically in school, so everything was online learning. So for that for the parent, for the sorry, for the school to be taking action on that was it was. It was outside of school hours. They are on totally on the screens all the time.
I mean that mental health issue. Yes, kids are still struggling with that time, aren't they a certain age cap who what they at that age?
She was in year nine, which was.
Like, yeah, the perfect storm of events, you know, COVID, online bullying and yeah, yeah it was really rough when it is.
We did really really kind of say that we do see a lot of bullying with growing ups, right, you look at what happens in parliament, you see what you know, there are growing ups who do really poor behavior. So we really needed to call some of that out as we go forward.
I think, yeah, for sure, for sure, what's been the most rewarding part of your work with family and children over the years.
Oh, look, it happens. Just yeah, it's beautiful because I've been around so long. Yeah, every now and then I run into somebody who recognizes me. It comes up and gives me a big hug and says, oh my god, you saved my life. Particularly the ones who mums have died, Yeah, and I became their like surrogate mum figure. They just followed what I said, and they've raised these exceptional kids.
Or the ones the moms particularly who didn't kind of understand their boys and then get out with mothering that went, oh man, they're a lot more sensitive than I thought, who have now got these wonderful teenage boys with a great relationship. And the other one that's really really special, I think is when I run into a lot of the dads who now want to hug and their selfie and they tell me that in their home they look at each other when the schmick's going down and just go,
what would Maggie do? Yes, let's just go and put a kettle on, Let's go and eat chocolate, Let's just go for a walk around the backyard. What would Maggie do? And that really does kind of because it's that common sense thing that you know, at the end of the day, you know, stuff happens that is just hard work. But when we can co parents and kind of no, we're both trying hard and we're gonna have good days and bad days, that's pretty special.
Yeah. Yeah, I love that we need T shirts.
There was that bracelet that the Christians were wearing, you know, w W j D. What would Jesus do? Yeah, what would Maggie do?
No? I think I've got the T shirt that says, no.
Matter what, no matter what, you loved you I loved no matter what.
Yeah, I love no matter what, nothing, no matter what. We're just going to have to get some merch, don't we.
Guys, Yeah, it would be great. Got one question for you. I'll pull this up just from one of our listeners. One of our listeners wrote, what do you say to all the parents that here you speak and love your message so much, but they feel guilt for the mistakes that they've made along the way?
Oh gully, if they haven't been to one of my seminars, I haven't heard all mine, as dakes. I think the more that you know there is we're all going to hold some guilt. There's no question we wish we'd meet and the perfect parent in the moment, but oh my God, my cockups is so long and extended. And what's really beautiful is that especially when I own, you know, some of the main ones, particularly for getting book week because it's an international sport now and I make fun of
those things. Apparently it makes their guilt disappear again. So please just put the guilt stick down. Put it down. You know, we've had a day where we forgot and I even forgot. We left one at the pool once. Fortunately was a state swimmer, so he didn't drown, but I thought Dad had him. Dad thought I had him, like you know, at the end of the day. Yeah, it's just how life goes. But do a head count, probably, But I am going to say, you know, every parent
has got regrets. But if we focus on what we've done that that's worked. We focus on the joyful moments, the focus on the fun, we can let the guilt go. Yeah, so that's my that's my suggestion.
And it's never too late, is it to have healing as well? But no matter how old you're.
Yeah, as I say, the rupture, we all have ruptures. Yeah, we can come back in now and just go, holy heck, that wasn't me In a very good moment, I'm going to have a do over. I'm going to try and do a little bit better around that. Yeah, absolutely, which wasn't something that happened in previous generations.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, Maggie, you make me feel like it's so much better about my parenting.
I got my kids, and it's like, oh, what would Maggie do? Maggie makes you feel better?
Yeah. I always recommend a really good block of high quality fruit nut chocolate in the bedroom for those moments because it is a health food.
Got it your health, the sweetness, and it.
Creates serotonin, so you'll come out a better parent.
Now it says I've got this written down that your this is your final parenting.
Vinyl locked the gate. You have no more parents shutting up. I might write fiction, but I feel it's time to hand a batton over to all the other educators coming up, some of them who I really love and respect. So as an old wise crone, it's time to hand over the baton. And I feel really good about it because I turned seventy in a few months, so it felt like a good time. Ten's a good number. We love the mighty phone number.
Train's going help me, help my teens. Supporting our teens through tough times? Is your your latest and last book on parenting, because there's a brilliant library of them.
So thank you so.
Much, thank you for having a chat with me. I really looked at you guys from a distance to go and you've done some fabulous stuff.
Well done, Thank you, Thank you so much. We've so enjoyed this chat with you today.
Wonderful.
Thanks for your time, mate, Maggie superhero, superhero cheers.
You're the one who called me a train, remember get on the train.
Well that's the end of our two partera with Maggie Dent, which could have been a ten part.
I love her grace.
She would say, you know what I've done ten books. You don't need to hear from me anymore. There's a whole lot of new yeah.
Coming up from incredibly insightful people.
And that is insightful in itself. She knows about herself and also without ego.
Yeah, because she is the Queen of common sense Yeah, which was absolutely on has been on show for the last two of these episodes that we've spoken to her.
I mean, I really mean that, like I feel I feel like we did we did good as parents like, I'm like all those things that I've felt guilt over and worried over, I'm like, you know, it's okay, You're okay.
Look.
I so hope you've enjoyed our double set with Maggie. We sure have.
You can get all of her books, but her last one is help me Help my teens, supporting our teens through tough times, and you may just learn a lot about yourself as well.
I did, Yeah did you?
I did corrupt it all right, we'll catch up with the next time on separate bathroom.
Thanks for listening.