That's really what anxiety is. We see it as this pesky, annoying thing that we just want to numb out or get rid of. But if we use it as that messenger, and we gently, curiously kind of follow it and we say, hey, what's this anxiety got to show me and teach me? It will take you on the most amazing path. It will take you back to a more whole version of yourself and you'll end up feeling grateful for it.
Hello and welcome to the heart of it. And today we are recording on gadigal Land. Today's guest is Georgie Collinson, one of Australia's leading anxiety experts, with a particular focus on relationship anxiety. Don't we all have that at some point or another. She's the internationally best selling author behind the Anxiety Reset Method, which was featured on Oprah's Book Club in twenty twenty three, which is quite the thing.
Now she's back with a powerful new book, Master Your Relationship Anxiety, diving deep into the fears, doubts and patterns that can sabotage our love lives, from love bombing to abandonment fears. Georgie breaks down the psychology of romantic anxiety and how to navigate it with clarity, confidence, and calm. Have a listen to this.
One, Hey, Georgie Collinson, how are you.
I'm doing really well. How are you guys?
Good?
Very well, Thank you for joining us.
Before we started, Cam was like, oh, this is the one on anxiety that would just makes me anxious.
Do you reckon? I mean, you've written two books on anxiety in your experience. Do you think we all have anxiety to some degree?
That's such a good question. I would say anxiety is part of our human experience. I mean, there is so much in our environment that sets us up to experience it. Just the news, the information overload, the social media, not to mention, our relationship stresses and work and there's never enough time. We're always so busy, and so yeah, there's so many reasons to create and generate that anxiety for anyone.
And then there's some of us who struggle with it more in that debilitating sense, or we might be more like how I work with people with high functioning anxiety, which is where we get it all done and all our responsibilities tend to be well maintained, but inside it's a very different story. We're feeling this persistent worry. There's usually a lot of pressure on ourselves, a big inner critic, and that's becoming more and more sort of the norm of how we many of us are in society.
I think you just described me.
I think she described a lot of it.
I get that a lot.
Yeah, I can imagine a high functioning anxiety people. As Cam mentioned, you've written two books, The Anxiety Reset Method and Master Your Relationship Anxieties is your latest book. It's actually a term I'm not specifically heard. So what is relationship anxiety?
Such a good question. So it's essentially anxiety, persistent worry, self doubt, insecurity related to pertaining to the context of relationships. And this can impact people who are single as well or in a relationship. You could be with someone who is very stable, very trustworthy, and still have that anxious mind worring within you, saying, but what if something happens to them? Or what if I'm I'm not quite safe?
In some ways, our mind will bring up all of these doubts and fears and worries in various ways, and we can go into those different categories of how that presents. But it's such a situation in a relationship with an the person that can generate our anxious fears and those deepest doubts just by the nature of loving someone and the vulnerability the risk that it is to love.
Okay, So that can happen between a child and a parent, that can happen between lovers obviously, and friendships as well, any kind of relationship.
The book is more in the context of a romantic intimate partnership, but hey, you know, a lot of those concepts will apply more universally. It's just that using the framework of a romantic relationship, there's just more nitty gritty we can dive into in that context. But of course, yes, it's going to pertain to different relationships too.
Okay, So how does the anxiety show up?
So we've got four types that we usually see this relationship anxiety playing out in. There's the fear of loss or abandonment is the first one, which is what if they leave me? And if you have that sense, like I said, you've got this person. You know they are you know, by your side, they are your loyal best friend, there might be a fear of well, what if something happens to them? You know? That can morph into some
kind of other potential loss. Then we've got the fear of needing someone's approval, of getting their rejection, which essentially is what if I'm not good enough for them? What if I'm too needy. It can manifest is, you know, judging certain scrutinizing areas of the relationship. What if we're not having sex enough, what if I'm not pleasing them in some way. The third type is the fear of being trapped in a bad situation, which is like, what if there are red flags in this relationship? Or how
do I know that this is really healthy? Or how do I know this is the right person for me? This idea of the one which we really get fixated on. And then the fourth type is the fear of losing your identity and your personal autonomy in a relationship. And so this can manifest is needing space all the time, or fanizing about being with someone else and maybe I'd be happier in another relationship, or essentially anything to kind of push away a little more from that relationship.
And do you find that the anxiety springs from past trauma in relationships specifically, or is it just something that can manifest on its own, it.
Will always have its roots in our past experiences. And that's the interesting thing. Yes, I mean, look, there may well be the rare exceptions where someone is just merely skipping down the lane in their life and has never known a negative relationship before and somehow stumbles into a situation full of red flags. But I mean the reality is there's usually some kind of precursor to normalize that experience for someone so that it's already familiar. Then we
don't react to the red flags. We see that anger outburst or you know, the abusive words or the love bombing that can occur early on as normal as this is just how love is, how relationships are, and all that conditioning begins when we're children. And if we've only known healthy, stable, safe relationships in our lives where you can be yourself, you can say what you're feeling, no one's going to shut you down or call you too
sensitive or too much. Then you're going to feel this sense of this is weird being in anything less than that, you will naturally be protected or want to make moves away from those scenarios. So, yes, there's always going to be some thread, and it's so cliche, but it goes back to our childhood. We are replicating our initial bond with one or both of our parents, and what wasn't what needs weren't met, what moments of pain weren't resolved with a partner later in life.
So then based on that, do you advocate to people to have therapy and work out their childhood's stuff before entering relationships.
That's a great question too, and I would say it can be both. So there's actually this journey that we take through our love experiences in life, and it tends to go through three different stages, which I also outline in the book. And this is where I just want to say, we don't have to do all of our healing on our own. I think that's a really big
message out there. If you have to be by yourself and go into this deep healing phase before you can actually meet someone healthy or have a healthy relationship, or you can't just jump from one relationship to another. I think we're all on very different paths with that, and it's okay to take your own path, and you can also reflect on yourself and whether that is in therapy or with some kind of book you're reading or a podcast. You know, there's different ways that we can do that
self awareness that's really really beneficial. But these three stages we move through and think about in your own life or people that you know. You'll generally see people move through these three stages. It's fascinating. But the first one we can move through it with different partners or potentially the same partner if we've met that one person when we're seventeen, and then we're just with them forever. The first stage is base love, and this is the partner
that we meet. Usually it just feels kind of effortless. You just come together. It's sweet, it's young love, and the relationship kind of works until something just pulls you in different directions. Maybe you're studying in different places, maybe different career paths. Maybe someone figures out that they're actually gay, or someone has some kind of realization you don't really know yourself yet when you meet that person, and so then we move into the next phase. We might feel
called to move into what we call chaotic love. And this is where it's heaven and it's hell all at once. It's like the most amazing and love passionate experience you've had, and yet it's awful too. All of your wounds will come up, all of the stuff that I mentioned earlier that hasn't been resolved since our childhood will come up
in that chaotic love phase. And this is where we'll see people who are in those really uncomfortable patterns of being attracted to emotionally unavailable people just can't seem to find the right person and cycling through relationships. Or again, if you're with the same person, maybe you go through a really rough time of not getting each other. Or this could be maybe the story where someone gets a couple gets divorced, but then they find their way back
to each other later. And then the last phase. If we learn our lessons, if we do that growth work and we start to show up as the healthiest partner we can be and a more whole version of ourselves and really know ourselves well, we can move into expansive love, which is this side by side partnership where we get
to grow together. And it's not going to be perfect, as I'm sure you guys know you talk about on your podcast all the time, but it's this opportunity to stick together through the ups and downs of life, and it's someone that you can move and evolve with, and it's a very different experience coming into that expansive love. Once we've you know, we can kind of own our stuff a bit more. We're better at expressing what we need, and the relationship can function a lot better.
Relate, relate, relate on all levels.
Georgie, Well, that chaotic, we're kind of an expensive.
Well, it's helpful when you've got someone, like I've said about you before, that's willing to keep going on the journey for self exploration. Like I think that's where I think relationships can come undone when one person is doing it and the other person isn't whatever. But you know, that's that's where I think it's important to you know, to travel and traverse those places individually, but it's still going in the same direction, you know what I mean.
So I love that you said, Georgie, that you don't have to have you basically, I'm going to say much more crudely than you did, but you don't have to have all your shit together before you meet the love of your life. Like, I think that's something the therapist that we did early therapy that was very much herm O like for the single people that she worked with. You'll never meet anyone until you're healed, until you've worked
through your childhood, you won't attract the right person. And it was like, these women are still single, you know, because they're waiting to like get all their ship sorted. And it's like, I love that you said that. It can absolutely and often we shot we saw our shit out when we meet someone in reflection, because it's all well, it's all well and good to be in your head, going I do this with this person, I do that.
But until you're in relationship, nothing's going to bring out your wounds and your traumas until you're really in the thick of.
It right totally. And this is coming from someone I spent three and a half years single in between my my chaotic relationship, had a few more chaotic ones, and then my current partner, And you know, it was a phase where I did do the solo, independent thing for a while of just doing my healing work and focusing on that. But I reached a point where and I will say it was a very peaceful time in many ways. There was no one there to disagree with me, no
one there to push my buttons. It was so great but of course, as you said, this is where so much of the learning happens is when you actually bring in another person to mirror you, to reflect things back to you, and you get to a point or you can decide at some point in your life that you're just ready to kind of do that work with someone.
I mean that there is always going to be this opportunity, this invitation and a relationship with someone to reflect on yourself and how you're communicating, and what you need and what parts of you are the mature adult part of you, and what parts of you are the inner child that's just throwing a tantrum or doesn't like it, or is being manipulative or whatever it might be. And there's no
better space to learn that than within a relationship. One of the things I talk about in the book quite a bit is this obsession we have as a culture at the moment with hyper independence, really glorifying people that do it all by themselves and you know, they're a self made success or the independent woman's story. You know, it's kind of like I understand that if you're in a scenario where maybe you're a single mom and you're just like you know, going through life in that way
that can be really empowering. But at the same time, tribal beings and we need community and we need others around us, and so yeah, being in relationship with others is essential for our well being and something we kind of need to come back to.
It's really good. As you're talking, then, I was thinking about a line that I've often heard is that it's easy to be the most enlightened person when you're living on top of a mountain, and it's only until you come down off that mountain and start dealing with the people that and dealing with people that you love or come into contact that you actually realize how enlightened you are.
That's like the other version of that that I've heard is like, go spend a week with your family right Christmas time. You know, it's always always a test.
Absolutely, So you've got a is this right? A four week program for overcoming the mental and emotional stresses in relationship?
That's it.
So what could I expect if I was to sign up to that four week program?
Well, the book guides you through this, and the reason it's four weeks is that it's essentially we're putting a timeframe on it. For you to work through and read through and apply the different practices in the book. Now, of course that work that you have to do ongoing is going to be much longer than four weeks, But there is so much that I can bring to the reader's awareness in just a read through of the book that it creates such a shift that awareness is fifty
percent of the work. The next part is, of course, then putting it into practice and you know, learning to follow through with those realizations. So if you realize, for example, that you have a habit of abandoning yourself in relationships, and what I mean by that is I don't matter, I'm not that important, I'm hungry, but I'll feed you first,
you know that kind of mentality. Bringing awareness to that, you now have an opportunity to choose differently and remember that you need to feed yourself too, or ask for what you need and receive as well. You need hugs as well as the hugs that you so readily give to other people. And through working through that, yeah, we can make some big shifts if we're really intentional about it in a short phase of time.
And four weeks is a good time to develop positive habits too, right.
That's it. Yes, it doesn't have to be forever. But again it's the catalyst for a much bigger shift and change ongoing in your life. But we really dedicate ourselves to a time frame. We say, look, I'm just looking at me. In these next four weeks, I'm going to be the observer of my life. I'm going to watch
what's going on. Again. There's another section I talk about when we notice we're in these habits of repeating childhood patterns, Perhaps we've got the awareness, maybe we've done some therapy work or some self development stuff and we can see, Ah, yes, I always have this habit of exploding emotionally in anger and irritation because I haven't been putting myself first. Whatever it might be. Maybe bottle things up and you don't
share it. One of the things I actually recommend is to let yourself go through that cycle of doing the thing that you know that you do do the habit, watch yourself do it, but don't do it the same way you normally would, where you're asleep while you do that and you just go through that reactive pattern. Instead, just watch it. Watch what happens when you do, you know, throw in the snide remark that you want to throw
in or win the argument. Watch what's going on in those unhealthy patterns with your eyes open and see the outcome that results as you do that, And what happens is you naturally retire of it. Naturally, these new awarenesses come to you and you realize that, oh, when I do this, I get this result and I feel terrible
or it doesn't get us anywhere. It's a lose loose, and we can then again quite easefully shift the way we show up, so it's less about like forcing yourself to be the perfect person and more just fumbling through. But with your eyes open and naturally some of these things start to shift. I noticed it personally when I was again attracted to certain emotionally unavailable men and noticing, okay, well, what happens if I just follow this path this time?
What if I just follow the attraction that I feel? And it eventually just hit me and it was so clear that this is a dead end, this is not
going to meet my needs. And that was so such a realization, breakthrough kind of moment to have that and see, like, if I keep doing this, this is just yeah, getting me nowhere, and I describe it like it's like seeing your favorite ice cream but knowing it looks so delicious, but knowing that its spiked with a flavor that you hate, and so you kind of know, oh, yep, I've tasted that before. I'm not going to taste it again. It doesn't taste very good.
And it's one of those things too, that all of your girlfriends are there going, oh my god, she's fallen in love with the exact same guy. Like everyone else can see it except for you, because you're still trying to heal that part of yourself, so you still keep going back to the same kind of like guy until we, as you say, wake up and have that realization. It's like, oh, this is about something else. I keep choosing this to heal.
Yeah, that's it. You know what was even more frustrating for me is I had all that awareness, like I could see it, and yet I still felt the attraction, and I was like, oh, yeah, you know, so I just I kept following those breadcrumbs anyway, but again, showing up still kind of like protecting aware of myself in that experience, and that's what ultimately helped me break that pattern, because I was like Oh yeah, I really get it now.
I have I know where you know specifically, your your speciality is romantic relationships.
That's what the book's about. Though.
For me, I have a lot of friendship anxiety. I'm like the youngest of three sisters, so you know, with three, it's often difficult, like in this sense of like I feel like someone for me, this is where my brain goes. Someone's always going to get left out if it's three and I'm constantly making like in America, I was one of three friends. Here here in Australia, I'm one of three friends, and it's so I am my anxiety around being left out like I have to. I'm that annoying
friend that goes are you mad with me? Is everything okay? Like? And I'm like, oh my god, it's here again, and they're like, Ali, No, it's fine, I love you.
What's going on.
I'm like, I know, but it's it's I have it there really strongly. And that's as you say, it's from my childhood of being the youngest of three sisters and because I was the young and there was a big gap as the youngest that the two were you know, going out and doing stuff together. So it's just it's just carried me.
Through still yeah and yeah, still learning, but you know it's amazing you've got the awareness and you can see it. And then the next step is that if you can see in your adult life. Now I've got this experience, I feel like I'm that six year old that I
was once being left out or feeling this insecurity. You can start to visualize if you're open to it, you could close your eyes and you can imagine speaking to that little six year old and really be the loving friend or sister or parent that she needed in that moment, and you can say to her, you're awesome, you are so lovable, you are so worthy of friends and being included, and you can really teach that younger you the reality of why, you know, maybe you were excluded from certain things,
or there was the competition and things that you probably weren't explained at the time because so often out our parents, yeah, our caregivers, they don't get on the same level as us as children. And so yeah, like speaking to yourself in that way. It sounds so strange, I think and maybe even weird when we first sort of approach that concept, but it is such a game changer to kind of be this best friend to yourself. This loving parent is
what I often often refer to it as. And that's something that we can keep doing and working with.
I love that. Thank you.
What if, Georgie, what if one person in the relationship has anxiety and the other one doesn't and certainly doesn't know how to support the anxious one.
Yeah, that's a tough scenario because, as I mentioned earlier, you could be the most stable, secure person. You could say to that partner that's anxious, Look you're safe with me. I don't know what else to do for you. Like I'm here, I'm not going anywhere, and hey, being that stable force is really helpful, you know, it help that person. In fact, there's a video online of a stray kitten that is so scared and traumatized and it's in a box and there's this mother cat that slowly, slowly approaches
this kitten, and the kitten is freaking out. It's scratching, it's hissing at the mother cat that's moving towards it. It's not its mother, but it's a mother cat, and the cat just keeps slowly, slowly moving towards it, and it doesn't react, it doesn't flinch when the kitten lashes out, and eventually the video moves on and the two are curled up sleeping together and the mess I know, it's
so heartwarming. The message of that video is that this continued support of I'm not going anywhere, I'm stable, you can lash out at me and I'm right here. It really can be so healing for another person. So I
wouldn't underestimate that. But then we don't want to move into a space where you are your energy compromising yourself either, And so that partner that's got the anxiety also has to do that in a work and they have to start to work with the invitation that anxiety is to meet parts of yourself that have been wounded in some way or in pain, or have been heard or were left or went through something. And that's that's really what
anxiety is. It's we see it as this pesky, annoying thing that we just want to numb out or get rid of. But if we use it as that messenger and we gently, curiously kind of follow it and we say, hey, what's this anxiety got to show me and teach me, it will take you on the most amazing path. It will take you back to a more whole version of yourself and you'll end up feeling grateful for it in
the first place. As much as I know, it can feel like climbing an impossible mountain when you're when you're experiencing the grips of it, but that's where we can go. So it has to be if you're supporting someone that is experiencing a lot of ansaieciety, it has to be a team effort. You can certainly do a lot by just being that stable force, but also you can't do it all and don't take on everything. You've also got to encourage your partner to do their inner work as well as best as you can.
You know, Mel Robins, Yeah, I caught something that she was saying the other day, and she was saying, don't say I have anxiety. Don't say because it's do you know what I'm talking about? What I'm about to say? Yeah, She's like, you need to define it. You need to be able to say I'm anxious about getting on a plane and be specific about what it is you're anxious about because words matter. What's your take on that.
Love it all for it one of the first things I teach someone who who comes into my world is to really look at this label of anxiety and the identity we tend to take on with it. We often think it's a part of our personality, and yeah, some of us obviously have a sensitivity towards that, maybe a tendency towards anxiety more than others. But it doesn't mean it's who you are. You are so much more than the anxiety. So it's important that we don't say I
have anxiety or I am an anxious person. I make a lot of social media posts about that, and it's funny. There are so many people who like fiercely want to defend their label, and I think it's important to have a context right to work within. So if you can kind of say, okay, yeah, oh yeah, I'm fitting into the anxiety category with this, but again from there, now, let's use it and work with it, because it's not who you are. It's just something that you're experiencing, right,
And that distinction is huge. When we think it's who we are and it's like, you know, it kind of becomes like I am a problem, and that doesn't cultivate safety within ourselves. That place we go to when we close our eyes and we're alone with ourself, our thoughts, our emotions feels very unsafe when we think that there's some inherent flaw or problem with it. And if we can there is so much we can do to start
to cultivate a safety without inner world. And it really starts with seeing you're not this big problem, you're not broken, and you're certainly not forever tattooed with the label of anxiety.
That's great. It's Celtic saying that. I don't know what the Celtic saying is, but it basically means it was with sickness, and it was someone saying I'm sick, you know, and it's like, and the Celtic saying is I am with sickness or this is with me at the moment, I'm with this cold. And then it creates separation of it, so it's not actually, you're not actually sick. It's like, I'm just with it and it will pass.
That so much I'm going to start using that. For sure.
It stayed with me, Georgie. It certainly stayed with me because it's a long time ago. But it was whatever the you know, it was some like, oh, we're never going to learn.
That it is.
I mean, it's probably going to be an incredibly obvious question. Does anxiety show up more in the more sort of volatile relationships or does it show up in the healthy, loving ones as well?
It can be just as present in both. But of course, if you are in a more volatile relationship, and we can define this in a few ways, like you are not with someone who is interested in meeting your needs, You're with someone who is perhaps abusive, and hey, we've got to look at it. It's more than physical. You know,
abuse can be emotional. It can be someone who's constantly putting you down, making jokes at your expense, using derogatory language, and degrading your self esteem, which can happen, you know, quite casually. You know, Oh you're silly, idiot, right, We can hear that, and we can have people talk to them like we talk to our siblings that way, you know, growing up half the time. So these are some things
that don't make us feel safe inside ourselves. And if we are in a scenario like that, some people come to work with me and they want me to build their confidence, They want me to build their self esteem and help them to feel calm so that they're not such a problem for their partner anymore. But it's I know, but it's kind of like, if you're experiencing these constant threats and attacks and you don't feel safe, it's like
trying to be fireproof in a dragon's den. And my approach is, you know, let's get you instead to build that self esteem and that awareness enough that you actually are okay with getting out of the dragon's den. But hey, that's a that's a process, and and you know, people are going to meet that in their own time. But that's another big message in the book that I'm really proud to have out there because it's such a big one that is so tough for people who are in those situations to break out of.
And see, yeah, because you can't. Yeah, you're sorry. I'm just saying, you're delineating the difference between what is genuine anxiety and what is major red flags that it's like, hang on a minute, you're actually maybe maybe it's more your intuition that you're picking up on rather than the fact that it's your anxiety.
You're just yeah, totally, and we'll get people. We'll get people telling, you know, like I've had clients where that they they again would coming to me trying to fix their anxiety, but their partner's cheating on them and lying to them about it, and every time they bring it up, they're getting this message of you must be crazy or everything's fine. And again it's like our environment matters. Our
relationships really do matter with anxiety. It doesn't matter how much we're doing our breath work and our therapy and our you know, whatever we're doing to regulate our nervous system those breathing hacks that we're seeing online. We do have to look at the relationships in our lives. And I've seen even like close friends be detrimental to someone's nervous system too, even if you're not actually living with them day to day. Looking at our friendships is also really important.
Yeah, Georgie, what would your three top tips for anyone who is with anxiety?
Love it? Well? If you're with anxiety more in a general context, again, I would invite you to consider shifting the relationship that you have with anxiety rather than trying to get rid of it and trying to make this part of you go away. And the reason for that is because that doesn't work. When we reject, suppress, deny a part of ourselves, it only screams louder for our attention. It's kind of like leaving your dog outside where they're barking and scratching at the door wanting to come inside.
The more you ignore them. You know, there's certain dogs that will just keep barking louder and louder until you just let them in. And this is how anxiety can be. When we let it in and we say, Okay, what are you here to teach me? That can shift so much so showing up to it with a different attitude, a different mindset. A curiosity is step one. The next is also then doing this work to sort of see a Kate. Is this a part of me from long ago?
Is this an emotional flashpack that I'm going through? Have I felt this way before? Is this a pattern for me? And that can maybe take you back to one of those memories like, oh, yeah, I used to feel like this. You know, I'm anxious for my friends right now, and hey, I used to feel like that with my sisters growing up.
And that's going to give you some big clues as to the part of you that you need to speak to to help yourself resolve this pattern, because over time you really can start to cultivate that safety, and those those triggers can come will fire off less and less and will get less anxiety coming up. And the third one is just the importance of helping the emotional energy to release in some way. There are many different ways that we can do this, and I was just mentioning
breath works, So breathing practices can be really helpful. Even just a sigh can be helpful. You can do a twenty minute, thirty minute breath work class like one of those longer ones. There's so many options there. But crying feeling our feelings. You have a big cry, Oh, that's such an outlet for our nervous system to come back into balance. We demonize that in our lives, you know, we really make that a weakness or we make it wrong.
Or it's really hard when you see someone you love or care about crying in front of you and not saying to them, don't cry, or how can I make you stop crying? You know, like trying really hard to rush them out of it. Perhaps we do this with our children as well, because again it's it's so painful to see them in that. But if we can just allow someone to be in their feelings as much as they need to, as long as they need to, and witness it, gosh, that's so healing. But we have to
start doing that with ourselves as well. If that's not familiar, Yeah.
Beautiful tips, I was doing that yesterday. I mixed two of those. I mixed two of those.
Together, crying inside.
Well, yeah, I was playing golf. So I was out there for my emotional release playing golf, and then I missed a few shots and I started crying on the A.
Teen your mates helpful of it?
They should let it out, buddy, Oh did they let it out?
Did they?
No?
Kidding me? Get out of yourself, Dad, I move on. It's your shout. You lost. You have to buy the beer.
Many many a tears bit and shed on the golf cause, let me tell you, And when I get home.
This is a tricky thing because I work mostly with women, so well, I work exclusively with women, so for men, the emotional release, it's a different kettle of fish. But you know, sport and physical activity, it can certainly be a really really good one and shedding some tears when when appropriate, we're safe to do so.
Yeah, I know. I absolutely always feel better after a cry, always so true, and a cuddle. Cry and a cuddle.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're all just big kids, you know, like how it solves ninety percent of things when you just give a little kid that's having a meltdown like a cuddle and you know, just let them know they're safe. Absolutely same we are.
We never change. Georgie.
Thank you so much.
Your your last your latest book is Master Your Relationship Anxiety. It's got a sort of a plan in it for you. You'll you know you can actually you can still work with Georgie. I'm sure people can find you online and work with you one on one. Her former book was The Anxiety Reset Method, that reached international success when it was picked by Oprah's book Club Hollow.
That must have been exciting.
That is so exciting.
Yeah, it was a pretty wild time, I must say.
For you, congratulations. But thanks so much for talking about this topic. I think it's such an interesting one.
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.