Nestled in a tiny room atop 125 Union Hill Trail, amongst the Georgia Pines, welcome! to the grow people podcast a tradition like no other That's six-time Grow People podcast champion Jason Gerdes hoping once again for a Resurrection Sunday victory. I'm David Stein. Joining us in the booth is videographer Marcos Guardiola. Today's podcast will be broadcast without commercial interruption. Thanks to our title sponsors.
Bank of Babylonia, A.T. and Titus, I-Bima, which is my favorite. I think that's very funny. I-B-M, I-Bima. Bima is a Hebrew word for, yeah. And... by Merhades Benz. purpose of the grow people podcast is to help grow people okay so how How am I a podcast champion? I don't know. I don't know. But when they introduced Jack, it's six-time Masters champion. Yeah. No, I mean, I'm grateful. Looking forward to...
Getting another green jacket. I mean, we could have our, since it is grow, but green and yellow, the colors match. Yeah. And it is the theme for our Easter campaign. It's Masters Green. I don't know if that was planned. Uh, no. Uh, and you pointed that out, uh, I think yesterday and I didn't really know what you were talking about. Uh, I mean, I did, but, um, no, it was not. Okay. All right. Are you gonna, I mean, we can say that it was more of like. green, grow. I got it. Yeah.
You could wear a green jacket for Easter. And that's the big question that we all have. I mean, are you going to wear a suit? Because last year you broke out the suit, and I mean, it was awesome. Yeah, Pastor Jesse asked me that the other day. I said, you know, that will probably be decided on Wednesday night. I said, much to Lindsay's chagrin. Wednesday night or Thursday morning. That doesn't give time for the rest of us to plan our wardrobe. I don't really care.
I would say, if I'm guessing, no. Because... I feel like, you know, last year I got that suit when I went to Kenya. So it was fresh and new. I don't know if I wore the same one this year. You got to keep them guessing, you know? Okay. I don't have any suit. I mean, I have that suit. I don't, I'm not a suit preacher really. Um, So the idea of preaching in a suit six times does not sound appealing. However, if that's the cross I have to bear, then we'll see. But as it stands right now.
And until Jesse asked me, I had not thought about it. Okay. Fashion is just not on my mind. The people who come here all the time, they're like, oh, cool, suit. And for the people that don't come here, that come to Easter, they'll be like, oh, this is normal. This is what I see in my church. Yeah, I think it's funny. Lindsay, probably more than anybody gets questions.
most often about my wardrobe and i think people would be shocked to maybe they wouldn't if they know if they've been around and know me but I think most people would be shocked at the little amount of time and attention I give to my clothing. And you've said that before. But I need to clarify, I don't want anybody to think that that somehow makes me more spiritual.
Like if someone loves Jesus and they think about their wardrobe a lot, I'm not trying to insinuate they're a bad person or they're somehow shallow is what I'm getting at. That's just me as a person, not as a Christian. I just don't care. I just don't. I've told Lindsay. I would literally, and if I can get in a little bit better shape, I would literally wear jeans and a white shirt.
all the time oh i love that look that's all i would ever wear i do the steve jobs thing yes like yes um and that's really how i think about it like i get not trying to insinuate i'm as smart as steve jobs But I have heard it said, like, he just did that because he didn't want to think about it. He wanted to use his brain power elsewhere. That's right. And what was it? Einstein, like, didn't even know his own address, street address or something. One of those.
He didn't know where his hairbrush was. No, he definitely didn't know that. But that's kind of my point. Like, I, again, not trying to insinuate that I'm really smart or really spiritual. I'm just saying, like. care to use any brain space uh on that oh i love i love the minimalist thing yeah i have 10 of the same black t-shirts which i wear pretty much under every shirt i wear i have X amount of short sleeve shirts, X amount of shackets.
and two pair of jeans. You didn't misspeak there. That wasn't Philadelphian. No, the shacket. The shacket, yeah. Hey, and let me tell you something. I was wearing the shacket long before the shacket was cool. Just like shaving my head long before it was cool. Yeah. And now everybody's wearing the jacket. Now I got to.
come up with a different look. But it's the simplicity. I just rotate the shackets and the shirts. There's a friend of mine, actually, he's kind of blown up online. Pastor's here in Atlanta, and I've had conversations with people. They ask me what I think about him. But Philip Anthony Mitchell, we've talked about him. African-American guy. Oh, I got him pulled up on my phone. Yeah.
He preaches in black all the time. Black jeans, black shirt, all the time. Black hoodies. Black hoodies all the time. And again, I thought it was just like what I'm talking about. But he shared this in something that I watched. but apparently he was in Israel many years ago. And do you hear the story? No. Like he was in Israel many years ago, went to the tomb and, um, I just had an experience, an encounter with the Holy Spirit there and just reminded him again, like, he's dead.
His old self is dead. The new one is raised. So he made a commitment from that point on to only wear black because we were black to funerals, you know, so he wears black. symbolically to say, I'm dead. So I thought, man, I could get down with that, you know, like just make it super easy. And then like, so maybe.
The Holy Spirit, you know, just have me in, like, maybe I'll just wear all white, you know, or whatever, or like I'm alive, you know, in Christ. You could do that at Yom Kippur. Yes. I need to figure out something. And then just do it. Because, again, I can't stand it. Like, literally every morning. I just grab something and I don't even really care. So I'll just tell her not to listen to this podcast.
I don't even really care if it's washed. I do think that's a guy thing. You do the smell test. Remember Sinbad, the old comedian? He has a lot of health issues now. He's one of my all time favorite comedians. He does this whole bit between. funky, uh, dirty and funky, you know, it's like, if something's dirty, you know, you can wear it again. It's funky. Then you have to wash it, you know? So he does this, he used to do this whole standup bit about that. Um,
I'm like, yeah, that's my, now I'm not as colorful as him. Like he had some colorful wardrobes. He did. But that's kind of my mentality. Yeah. And that's why, you know. 75% of my closet's black. Yeah. And I wear black a lot. And I always just thought, not because I came from California, where everybody wears black, but it's simple. It's simple. I don't have to think. I have two black pants, one pair of black jeans, one pair of blue jeans. That's as simple as I want to get. Now, some people...
When I show up, you know, on Easter wearing all black. Yeah. Somebody told me I dress like my shadow. Well, now you can just give him one. You can tell him what Philip said. Yeah. I'm dead. Yeah. Big, big few weeks coming up. We've got the Easter, Master's Week, Passover. Did you just say we got the Easter? I don't know. Did I say? Well, you did. As in like the Walmart and the Kroger. We've got the Easter coming up. We should put that on the billboards. The Easter revolution. The only Easter.
We've got the team member party, which is the way to say it. The team member party coming up. If you haven't seen, it's Star Wars themed. It is. It's on May the 4th. You did some really cool videos down in Florida. Yeah, we went to Disney one day when we got to the conference and shot some videos. Confession.
uh and i said this in a sermon one time i have never seen star wars i can't believe it well here here's the explanation i think i think it'll make sense star wars came out what 77 76 77 in the 70s yeah yeah okay so i was 15 16 years old so at the time i was into um oh girls so so you know i wasn't i wasn't into lightsabers and so shane only nerds were into it yeah yeah yeah so No, I didn't see it when it came out. So 20 years later, when someone tried to get me to watch it on VHS,
stand up to the test of time. Well, definitely, yeah, from a cinematic. It was cutting edge in the 70s. I'm not anti-Star Wars. I can appreciate that people are into it. I can appreciate that there are people who dress up for it and go to events dressed up as Star Wars characters.
That's why Godfather is my favorite movie. I can just dress up like a gangster. Dress up like a mobster. That's your vibe. Just a suit. Who are you dressed as? Michael Corleone. No, I'm excited about it. So you still haven't watched it?
star wars no no i haven't seen star wars or anything in the marvel cinematic universe is that what it's called well you know those are two different things no i don't yes yes those are two different things uh yeah star wars obviously george lucas created that world right okay um and then marvel different world um No, Star Wars, it's funny. Yeah, I mean, I was born in 78. So when it first came out, you know, I wasn't alive. So by the time I was young, it was already a cultural phenomenon.
And my mom loved the movies. And so we watched them. Um, and, but I, I, I wouldn't say like, I, I would definitely wasn't, you know, um, like a rabid fan, you know what I mean? But I loved them. But as I've gotten older, you know, I appreciate them. And Disney, you know, most people, and I would agree, now that they own it. They haven't done as good of a job with the latest films. But at the park at Disney World, the world that they created there, that was phenomenal. Like when you go.
into star wars land or whatever it's called i can't remember um and so when we were planning the team member party this year we knew we were going to be in orlando for the conference Like, oh, we got to go there and shoot a couple, you know, just promos for it since it's on May the 4th. And we decided that.
We're going to run with that theme. We've done that before for team member parties. Little did we know that the garage in our Airbnb was Star Wars. Yeah, it was. I had dreams of us recording some things in there. By the time we would get back after the conference, we were just tired. But yeah, the Star Wars land or whatever at Disney World is just phenomenal. Like you walk in there and you feel like you've been transported to another.
I'm sure that's cool. So to me, that's what I enjoy about the stories. And then obviously the greatest reveal of all time, arguably about. Darth Vader and Luke you know Which if you don't know what I'm talking about, you've had 50 years. You've had a while. There's no spoiler alert. There's no spoiler. But yeah, just the writing and what he did. So, yeah, I appreciate the art. Yeah, for sure. So you need to take it some time and go back and watch them. Well, we have, you know.
Somebody on staff, and I'm friends with them, and they've said, hey, why don't you come over? We'll have a Star Wars marathon some Saturday. I'm like, I don't know. That doesn't sound. That great. But I'm sure it's good. And I'm sure there are people appalled and will never come back to this trip. Why'd you leave Revolution?
David doesn't like Star Wars yeah it's not that you don't like it is I mean now too in the same way I have not seen all the Godfather movies yeah and that I don't understand yes yeah I think I have a better reason though Because when I was young, the last thing I need to be doing as a young human is watching those movies. Like I, I at least have a more moral reason to have not watched, uh, you know, blood and guts and gangster movies good good point that yeah
Yeah. Well, and it came out in 72 and then part two came out in 74. Yeah. So, you know, little 11 year old. Davy Stein going to the movie theater with his dad to see The Godfather. This explains a lot about your childhood now. Like, you didn't watch Star Wars, but you went and watched gangster movies. I mean, I told you what my grandfather got me for my bar mitzvah. Uh-uh.
cigars and something else as a rite of passage for a young man. Yes, you did tell me that. Yes, that's right. Yeah, so there I was at my bar mitzvah smoking cigars. Again, your childhood explains a lot. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. Okay. The last thing before we get to talking about Ezra and Ezra chapter nine and that message, which was unbelievable. Are you glad that I did not bring gefilte fish in this year? Oh, my gosh.
Last year for Passover, I brought in a jar of gefilte fish, which is Jewish soul food, and only me and... Jewish gelatin. It's ground carp. Formed into a ball and sitting in gelatinous liquid in a glass jar. What could go wrong? served with horseradish on matzo. Yeah, I think it's for reasons like that that God judged the Jewish people. The flashbacks that I have for Passover are... I loved gefilte fish. I loved chopped liver, which neither of those are historically.
Jewish things. Not kosher. Biblical Jewish things. Yeah. They were Eastern European Jewish things. Yeah. Because you would just, you couldn't. throw anything away yeah so you had to take the organs from the chicken and make chopped liver you had you had to take the carp and and use that i understand yeah it's a necessity yeah so it was an eastern european thing so i love that but then my mom would make peanut butter and jelly on matzah and put that in our lunchboxes.
So it wasn't bad enough that we were beaten up on the school bus. We're being Jewish. We're also beaten up in the lunchroom for having peanut butter and jelly on crackers. You could even have a sandwich. True story. I'm not making any, which also explains a lot. Yeah. We're learning a lot here. Okay. All right. Moving on, moving on. We're almost to the end of Ezra.
One more chapter to go at this point. Ezra chapter nine. And I say this all the time. Just blown away by the messages in Ezra. Blown away by. What I learned in a book that I've read before but didn't get any of this. Because we don't take it that slow. And that's why it's important to take the Bible reading, the Bible meditation slowly like that. That's why we reap the Bible in our community groups to read, to examine. And part of the examine is, huh.
Why are these words? What does sat appalled really mean? Because we can just read it as a narrative and then move on to Nehemiah. But slowing it down, taking a chapter at a time. Obviously, the leadership message in chapter 8 was powerful on many levels. But then when we got to chapter 9 and hearing about Ezra, Sitting appalled at sin. There were gasps. There were tears. There were sniffles, especially Thursday night.
And then there was a lot of conviction. I was convicted of things. I know people I talked to after the gatherings, they were convicted of things. Let's just talk about that. Let's talk about sitting appalled in our sin, and let's talk about how Jesus stood up, and we need to sit down. Yeah, it is. To your first point, I think that's a, you know, and we were actually talking about this with Pastor Matt, who has been on our team now for five, six months, however long.
And since he's been here, this is the first book of the Bible that we've preached through. Because when he came, I think we were doing Advent. And then we did Abide. Right. Then, obviously, after that, we jumped into a book. So, this is the first time him being with us and walking through that.
It was really cool hearing his observation about that because the church background he came from, they just preached more topically, which again is fine, nothing wrong with it. But I think the power of preaching through a book, and this is what I was telling him, is And so twofold, one of like, when, yeah, when we just read through something, and again, I've said this many times, I'm not opposed to Bible reading plans, but.
for the vast majority of us, we would just read through Ezra and we would just look at it historically. Oh, like that happened. Um, Which is fine. Not a bad way to read it, but I think what we should do is read it. Okay, that happened. Why did it happen? And then what does this now mean for me or for us? So when you look at that, and I just told this, we were talking about it yesterday in a creative meeting, because Matt, we were talking about the message.
I said, yeah, part of what makes Ezra 9, that sermon so powerful. is the whole church knows I didn't just pick that up. Like I didn't like... you know what, this Sunday I'm going to talk about sin. And then there almost feels like there's an agenda to it. That could happen if I'm preaching on money or preaching on something that may be a sensitive subject.
People were like, well, of course you're going to go preach on that one. You know, like you pick that one up, you know. So the power of preaching through a book exegetically, you know, as you love to say, verse by verse or chapter by chapter. is when you're just walking through it, it's like walking through a field, you're discovering what's there. And then when you discover what's there, then you have to deal with it because God put it there.
So when you read like chapter eight, it was, I mean, chapter, I mean, we could spend a whole, we talked about leadership last time in the podcast. We could spend a whole nother, you know, subject matter. or a whole nother podcast on that because there was very powerful leadership principles in chapter eight um but when you go from that, like a very power, like, okay, like that chapter was like very practical in like any kind of leadership in your life.
but then when you get to chapter nine it becomes very personal um and i think that's where um what made it impactful because what the leadership that Ezra displayed in chapter eight, now he is, he is living out like he is. He is the leader. And so he has to deal with what's there, like using the discovery process. He discovers.
the presence of sin. You know, he discovers that the people have not obeyed God. And so I knew, obviously, I knew going into this book that chapter 9 and 10 were going to be heavy. And we had to deal with the subject of intermarriage. And I wasn't concerned about that, but it's one of those things that's like, when you look at it, like in the subtitle in your Bible and you see intermarriage, you're like, oh, what's the big deal?
So I knew I had to deal with that subject, which I tried to show that intermarriage, the problem of intermarriage was never about race. It was about religion. And like I said, Moses, who wrote the first five books of the Bible, married a Kushite woman who was Ethiopian. Clearly, God does not have a problem with people with different skin colors marrying each other. Now, when you come from different cultures, that can be an issue. And what I mean by that is...
Like I said in the message, when you marry a person, you don't just marry a person, you marry practices. So it can be a challenge when different cultures marry each other, whether that is an American marrying an African or an Australian marrying an Asian. There's different practices. I would say, let's say half the time, 60% of those times.
Those practices are harmless, like what you were talking about with the gefilte fish and peanut butter on matzo. There's nothing religious or irreligious about that. Like that may be odd, you know, to a Southerner to be like, what, you put that on a cracker? But you can overcome those cultural differences. Like you need to say, I'm not eating gelatin carp, or I'm not eating chicken fried liver, whatever.
However, the main point God was trying to say, what makes intermarriage a big deal is not just those practices, it's worship. You know, it is intermarrying somebody who doesn't have the same faith as you. And that's what Ezra was so appalled about. And especially in our culture today, when there's a lot of confusion about even what marriage is, who gets to define what marriage is. And I said, you know, in the sermon.
Government doesn't define marriage because it didn't create it. God did. God created it. So he defines it's one man, one woman in a covenant relationship. Well, then. Then that starts to open up. Okay. And this is, you know, well, that's what marriage is. Then when am I married? You know? So when you start looking through that and you start thinking about. okay, that's God's standard. Well, then anything less of that, I should be appalled by.
Which, you know, 20, 30 years ago, especially in student ministry world and even in church world, it was always like, just don't have sex before you get married. Like that was the standard. And everybody in church knew that. But then it became, like I said, well, how far can I go? And that's when I was like, well, that's just a dumb question. That's like saying. God, how far can I sin until you're appalled with it? Well, the only right response is,
I should be appalled the moment I take a step towards sin. Even if, quote unquote, the step I just took. is not in itself sinful. Like, and again, the example I use with teenagers is Clearly, holding hands with somebody is not sinful. Like, having sex outside of marriage is sinful. But we do have to ask the question, okay, if I hold hands, then that leads to this. And that leads to this, and then that leads to this. Yeah.
And I joke, we came up with this weird base system. I mean, I know you're a baseball guy. It's just weird to refer to things people, humans do with each other as bases. When you start thinking about it, it's like the same thing of like, and we'll talk about this on here. Like if life doesn't begin at conception, then when does it begin?
Well, you start getting into real moral quandaries if you're trying to justify when that is. Well, is it when a baby passes through the birth canal? Is it eight months, nine months? you know, heartbeat fully like viable. Like that's a definition that most people would agree with. And babies we know now are viable about 22 weeks.
But even then, it just becomes real murky morally. So, again, Christians believe because the Bible says life begins at conception. That makes it clean. Well, the same thing should be true when it comes to sin in our life. The moment, I mean, Jesus himself said, You've heard it say, you know. Don't hate somebody or whatever. I'm trying to quote Jesus and I'm failing here. But then Jesus says, or like lust, but he's like, if you do it in your heart, you've sinned. So if anything, Jesus.
Like he didn't push the moral line. He pulled them back. Like, like not just action, but intention and thoughts. So that's what I was trying to say of like. I don't see how anybody who is self-aware... is not appalled with themselves. I know my thoughts. I don't know your thoughts, or anybody else's.
If scientifically, if I'm doing an observation here, I know my thoughts and I'm human. So I've got to believe that everybody else's thoughts are like mine. I'm mortified by my thoughts. I'm mortified. I am appalled at... And that's the point I was trying to get. Like Ezra's response was not extreme. It was appropriate.
Yeah, and that was the point. Being appalled is appropriate. Yeah. A couple of things. When you were preaching on the intermarriage and began to talk about, no, it's not about race, it's about religion. Growing up in a modern Jewish culture, so remember we're Jewish but we're atheists. When my brother got married and he was 20, so this would have been... 19 Boba to boom. And he married a girl who was not Jewish. Now, there is a disconnect here. I understand that. Where my parents were appalled.
That he was marrying a shiksa, which is Yiddish for a non-Jewish girl. Not a nice thing to say. So if you see somebody who's not Jewish and you call them a shiksa, that's not a nice thing to say. That's not a good thing to say. But you have to say it in the right. You have to say it like that. I don't know why you have to say it like that, but all Yiddish things have to be said like that. It's like the Godfather. Yes. So what I did not get.
It hit me over the weekend was they were not appalled that this was a different religion. They were upset because the modern Jewish culture. wants to simply perpetuate the Jewish line because of the mass murder of Jews over the centuries. Yeah. Which, again, is understandable. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. fault your parents for thinking that way. However, That is in and of itself a form of racism, you know, that again, not only Jewish people do. Every race does.
And, well, let me clarify. I want to pick my words here clearly. I say it's a form of racism. It depends. Let me back up. It can be a form of racism. And what I mean by that is there's nothing wrong, again, like, let's say a South Korean person. wanting to marry another South Korean person because South Koreans look a certain way.
There's nothing wrong with a Kenyan person wanting to marry a Kenyan person because to be Kenyan means you look a certain way. And what I mean by that is God clearly... celebrates the diversity of humanity yes as far as cultures and colors you know like So that's not wrong in and of itself. Again, and we just live in a world where that just seems appalling. So it's not wrong for a South Korean, like I said, or a Ukrainian to marry a Ukrainian because...
And so for your ancestry, Jewish people to marry Jewish people is not wrong. In the sense of like, we want to carry the Jewish culture. Yes. We want to carry the Jewish line. That's not wrong. However, it can become a form of racism if we start to think because our culture is better than your culture. Yeah. I was not offended when you said racism.
And I don't think my parents' intent was we're better than. Exactly. Yeah. That's why I wanted to clarify that. Yeah. My parents' intent, they grew up during the Holocaust. Of course. So. They were trying to preserve culture. Went from 18 million Jews to 12 or 17 million Jews to. 11 million yeah over the course of a couple of years yes so they were just wanting to perpetuate the jewish line of course and that's what i wanted to clarify but the ultimate point that we were trying to make is
beyond like it's okay to care about that uh again to continue a culture to continue a a certain genotype of person But for Christians, our ultimate goal is not the continuation of a race. It is a continuation of the religion of Christ. And that's really the point there in Ezra. When it says holy race, it means... I know I said this in the latter gatherings. I don't know if I said it Thursday or at the 8 a.m.
But it's literally holy seed. And that is a reference to Abraham and his faith as a seed. So in essence, what Ezra was saying there is. They have mixed the holy faith. They've mixed the holy seed, not the holy flesh. And that's what God wanted to perpetuate. And that's why Jesus said, go make disciples of all nations. So again, that's the main point. And that's why we had to deal with it because there is a lot, especially here in the South, you know, I mean.
we would be remiss to admit that Clearly, there was a history of racism and not just white people against black people, although that was clearly prevalent, but that exists in every culture that's ever existed. It's a fight against racism. And that's the beauty of Christianity is it rises above the...
the race wars or the race, you know, classes or classism or racism or whatever. It's just saying, Hey, and that was the ultimate point I was trying to make like a white person who's Christian and a black person who's Christian. No problem. But a white person who's Christian and a white person who's not Christian, problem. Yeah. Because we should see our, like I have more in common with a Kenyan who's Christian than I do an American who's not. Yes.
You know, that's the point. Like loyalty is to the Lord, to Jesus, to religion, to faith, not. any subgroup or subculture. So I wanted to deal with that and then talk about, you know, even first Peter two, nine, where he says you're a chosen race, you know, holy priesthood. In Christ now, God is bringing people from all cultures into this one religion, this one group.
And those are the people we should marry. And in practical ways, and we've shared this in premarital counseling before, the understanding of forgiveness. Forgiveness at the cross is not understood. It's very difficult to have forgiveness in a relationship. So if somebody is not a believer and someone is a believer. one person could be like, hey, forgive me. Yeah.
And the other person is like, yeah, sure. Because they don't understand forgiveness comes at the cross. If Jesus did that for the forgiveness of sins, I can forgive you. Yeah. In fact, I was listening to a Tim Keller message this morning on my way into the office and he was actually talking about this and how. Ironically, it was Dietrich Bonhoeffer who helped him, who was very involved, obviously, in the Holocaust in Germany.
who helped him better understand forgiveness. Because even when it comes to Easter, a lot of times people are like, why did God have to kill his own son? Why did Jesus have to die? And his point was, and Bonhoeffer's point ultimately was because forgive in order. Forgiveness requires suffering. And what he meant by that and what Keller was explaining that Bonhoeffer meant by that is if. If I'm going to forgive somebody,
I'm paying a price for that because they hurt me. They did something. And so— I, in order to forgive them, there is a form of suffering I'm going to endure to forgive because. And the point of suffering is it's going to cost me. Yes. It's going to cost me, you know, to forgive you. And I have to be willing to pay that price. To your point in a relationship. If you have somebody who doesn't understand.
That someone paid a price to forgive them, then they're going to be far less willing to pay a price to forgive their spouse. That's good. So, yes, forgiveness requires payment. requires suffering it requires a giving up of something um and And that's why Paul says, don't be unequally yoked. If I'm yoking myself or getting into a relationship with somebody who doesn't have as the foundation of their life any moral basis. or obedience to a God that has sacrificed their life for them.
then the relationship is doomed doomed. Um, because again, there's no, that's like saying, you know, okay, I'm going to build half my house on a foundation. The other half. Yeah. So if somebody is in an unequally yoked relationship, the person who is not the believer, not that they're less of a person. No. But they just don't know why you tick.
Yeah, they just have practices. Like in the example that Keller gave, which is, I mean, he's killer. He's amazing. He said, if you're walking out, like if you and your friend are walking through the countryside. And there's some train tracks there and there's a train coming and the friend looks to you and says, hey, I love you so much.
i'm going to lay down my life for you and they just jump on the tracks and the train runs over them um you were look you would look at them and like why did you have to show your love for me like that that's weird like why did you just Throw yourself on the train tracks. But then he said, if you're in the same scenario, you're in a friend next to a train track and you're on the train track.
And the train is barreling towards you and about to run you over. Then your friend pushes you out of the way. And in pushing you out of the way, they're run over. Now you know why they love you. Right. Because you're the one that was about to pay the price and they sacrificed themselves for you. That's good. So his point was, unless you understand that a price was paid for you and your sins, then you, his point was.
And Christ did something for us objectively. He died for us, which then has a subjective effect on us. It transforms us. So, yeah, and the same thing in a relationship is if a husband and wife, if one of them does not understand objectively Christ did this for them, then it's going to have a huge effect in their relationship because they won't understand. At the end of the day, love, what love is. which is self-sacrificing yourself. And they won't even understand.
You know, like it's not until I understand how guilty I am that. grace becomes amazing to me. There were four words in the sermon. Obviously, there were more than four words, especially Thursday. Yeah, there was a lot Thursday. Yeah. so we have appalled we have terrified so I'm sorry, trembled, trembled, terrified was also in the sermon, but it was appalled and terrified that, that really spoke to me and then sit and stand. So we've talked about appalled, but I want to relate that to.
a prayer coming out of the weekend, I have prayed, Lord, make me disgusted at my sin. Lord, take the sin away from me. But this is the first time that I think that I have actually been praying daily, Lord, make me appalled. Yeah. Because appalled is a word that... We throw around, just like we were joking about me putting the window down in the car when I get in. The audacity. We're appalled. I'm appalled. But appalled at sin.
Like sick to my stomach. That's what I want. But then I also want to tremble at his word. So. How did you pick out Tremble and what does that speak to? Well, in English, the word tremble was there. That's how I picked it. But I know that's not what you're asking. Yeah, again, and you're right. And I don't know how much we use the word appalled in modern vernacular today. Whenever we use it, we almost use it in a trifle way. Totally trifle.
Which is kind of just how our culture is in anything. I'm appalled that you would think that of me. It's never I'm appalled by myself. It's always I'm appalled that you think that of me. Yes, yes. And that's why I loved that word. And yeah, when you look at it, it means revulsed. I mean, it means horrified, you know.
Um, because the fact of the matter is, and this is the point, and I've referenced this actually a couple of times in the last six months or so. It's like when people say, I can't wait to see God. I got some questions for him, you know? And I'm like, okay. You're thinking way too highly of yourself and you're thinking way too lowly of God. Right. Because a finite created being does not stand before an infinite uncreated one and say anything. Yeah. That's like saying, and a lot of people.
Well, let me say that. That's like saying, you know what? I'm going to call up President Trump and give him a piece of my mind. Now I know like he's a polarizing figure and this isn't an endorsement and enticement in any way. I'm just talking about the person, the position. Right.
You really think you're going to do like, who are you that you think you can do that? And if you did, he's supposed to listen to you. Um, now, you know, we do vote them in an office that that's how we, you know, that's our. how we exercise our power. But what I'm seeing is It's not just the act of whatever it was we did that should revolt us. It is who we did it against. We did it against. The most holy being.
You know, like, he created the sun. I say this all the time. That's like a marshmallow thinking it has a chance against the surface of the sun. Are you serious right now? And I think our biggest problem as humans is in our culture now, we don't have a category for, we hate feeling guilty. We hate feeling ashamed. We don't even like talking about it.
We almost like to psychologically describe it away. And I think that's really, we don't even like the word sin anymore. And I was thinking about this. I didn't tell you, but. You know, I like words and I like coming up in acronyms, but I didn't say it in the message because I need to flesh it out a little bit more. But one of the thoughts I had with SIN, S-I-N, I was trying to come up with an acronym for it.
And I think I came up with a good one, so I'm going to test it out on here. You can tell us. Or you can tell your campus pastor on a weekend. But SIN, it's self-induced narcissism. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I thought so. Again, we're dry running here. But what I like about that is it's self-induced. I did this to myself. And then in narcissism, which has become a very popular cultural word, which is I'm fine with it. Obviously, it can be overused. But at the end of the day, narcissism is.
A heightened sense of self. Yeah. Narcissism is self-centeredness at the end of the day. So it's self-induced self-centeredness, you know, is what sin is. And so. What I'm the most, and I think what we should all be most appalled about, is we elevate ourself. It's self-induced. We're self-induced narcissists. It's like, I can't get myself, I can't get enough of me, you know? And I think what Ezra is teaching us, what the word of God, the book of Ezra is teaching us is.
The word tremble, like you said. When I tremble at the word of God, what I'm saying is my words are not the center. His word is at the center. So the opposite of a self-induced narcissism is self, maybe, or spirit-induced worship. Yes. You know, like, okay, there's somebody else's words that I'm trembling at. My words do not carry the weight in my life.
Because what we all do, I mean, not only are we not self-aware of our sin, we try to justify it. We try to explain it away. All the time. It's not that bad or it's not as bad as you. You know, again, that's narcissism because we can't. handle the guilt and shame of like no there's a problem and it's me so that's why i love that ezra gave us this example of The only right response, the only appropriate response when it comes to sin is zero self-justification. It's sitting in my sin.
And that's a question I had to ask coming out of the weekend was, do I tremble at the word of God so much that I'm appalled by my sin? Yeah. And if I'm not appalled by my sin. Am I really trembling at God's word? No. Yeah. No. And you're right. I mean, and I've said this many times. That's a message that's not easy for people to hear without trying to sound narcissistic myself. Imagine trying to preach it, knowing that about myself. Like I, I mean, I was. At even speaking it. Because I'm so.
Again, I'm so fearful, but I don't want that to sound like I'm afraid of God because he's my father, but I'm so in awe of him. And I try to imagine myself all the time. What it will be like one day when I see him and how, again, there's only one thing I will do. I'll do exactly what Ezra did. I will fall on my knees. I will lay down before him in sheer terror.
and sheer shame and guilt. I mean, I will be humbled to the ground. But then at the same moment or right after that moment, I don't know, I haven't been there. to know that then Jesus will stand up and say, apply my righteousness to that one. He's mine. She's mine. That's what makes the message of the gospel so utterly unique. Like I said, Easter's only good news for those who know. Easter is only good news for those who know that they can't stand before God.
And so, yeah, it should have, the word of God should have that profound of effect in our life where we tremble at it. And I think the biggest danger for us as pastors. And Christians in general is we get so familiar with the word of God. We know it. We deal with it. We handle it all the time. But we don't tremble at it anymore. We don't. It's like we become so comfortable. It's like.
You've seen those. This may seem like a weird analogy, but it's like those people who have like the Tiger King or whoever. who have a tiger or a lion as a pet, and they had it from birth, and then that tiger or lion mauls them and eats them. You forgot that you were dealing with an apex predator here. And, and yeah, you grew up with them, but instinctively that's what they know to do. Right. You know? So I think.
It's like C.S. Lewis said about the Word of God. He said, I don't have to defend it. I just have to let it loose. I don't have to defend the Word of God. It is a lion. All I have to do is let it loose. And I think we as Christians, our number one response to God and his word is that. We just tremble at it. And therefore, we're terrified and appalled. I mean, again, think about...
Peter, I mean, how many disciples, when Jesus does the miracle in the boat, Peter falls down in his face and says, I'm unworthy. You know, get away from me. Because when you realize who you're in the presence of, again, there's only one right response. And that's why the illustration that you just gave of calling up the White House. Hey, put them on. I got something to say. I got something to say. As ridiculous as that sounds.
And as ridiculous as it would be if you did that, how much more ridiculous would it be to think that you're going to get to heaven and have that opportunity with God? Yeah, again, I mean... How much self-induced narcissism do you have? Like how sinful are you that you think that we think we have any right to stand before God? Zero. And again, you see this with David in Psalm 51. After he sins with Bathsheba, how he responds, that's what made David a man after God's own heart.
Even though David, you know, he loved God, he worshiped God, he wrote songs and psalms when he was, you know, out as a shepherd boy. And then he clearly made mistakes when he was king. Clearly, they had devastating effects on the kingdom and the people. but he never lost his sensitivity. to god's heart like his heart to god's heart of like he knew what he did um
And, and he weeps for seven days, you know, and, and he said, and he penned Psalm 51, Lord against you and you alone, I have us. And now clearly. He hadn't sinned against God alone. He had sinned against Bathsheba. He had sinned against Uriah, her husband. He sinned against a lot of people. But what he was saying was, but compared to what he did to God. And as lovingly as I can say this, To anybody here who's been hurt or done wrong by somebody and you can't get over it.
then I would lovingly say to you, you have no idea how much what you did against God was way worse. What we did against God is a billion times worse than anything anyone has ever done against us. because of who we are versus who he is. And don't hear what Pastor Jason didn't say. It doesn't mean that there isn't a grieving period. Yeah. It doesn't mean we're saying, hey, get over it. It's why you can get over it. It's the only way you can. Yes. It's the power to get over it. Yeah. Is to say.
Okay, I sinned against God, and this was his response to me. They sinned against me, and what I did was worse. And this is what Jesus said in the parables, you know, when he said, this person forgave this debt, and then he goes out and chokes out somebody who had a smaller debt, you know. Jesus called him wicked. Like, what his point was, my debt against God was far more than someone else's debt against me. And so—
Trembling at that is what actually allows me to forgive. Again, go back to the train track. When I understand, I was on the train track. Death was running me over. Jesus pushed me out of the way. He took it for me. How then can I not have that same kind of love? for those that have sinned against me. And that goes back to equally yoked. Yes.
And how much more that relationship can grow because you do understand what you did to God. Yeah. Well, and that's where we say like the gospel in the Bible, you know, Paul says is Colossians 1. Elsewhere, the gospel is the power of God. How can I live? In a relationship? Yeah. It's only when I understand the gospel. It's only when I understand the good news. It's only when I tremble at the word of God. I'm terrified at my sin. And then I'm overwhelmed by the fact that Jesus stood up for me.
It's only understanding the truth of that that allows me to live at peace in the world, that allows me to live at peace with anybody, you know. And it's like Lindsay and I, that's the only way we live at peace with each other is we both understand we're both sinners, we're both saved. And that allows us to have peace in our relationship. One last thing. I don't think you said it in every gathering this past weekend, but you referenced when Jesus stood up.
during the stoning of steven oh yeah i think i was maybe it's only 11 15 yeah and And yeah, obviously you're taking that from, we need to sit down and humble ourselves and let Jesus stand in our place. But then you referenced Stephen. Yeah. I don't know of any human being that is in touch with their real self, their sinful self, their depravity. Who would think it was a good idea? to have them stand before God or over Jesus, you know? And so.
Um, my point is that visual, um, yeah. And it was at the 1115 and I don't remember what I was thinking, but clearly, you know, the Holy spirit brought it to my mind of like, It's only when we sit down that someone else can stand up. And so imagine Stephen in that moment, he's losing his life. He looks up, he sees Jesus standing.
That should be the goal of all of our life. But I'll only get Jesus standing in my place for my sin when I sit down. And I will only sit down when I'm trembling and terrified. So, again, that's the good news is the idea of Jesus standing for me. Um, not only on the cross, but when I meet God that he will stand up. Um, and we always hear he's sitting at the right hand of the father sitting at the right. Yeah. But yet he stands.
for the martyr Stephen. Yeah, I would like to think, again, whether... like if we can deduce logically that this is what happens every time a believer dies, but it makes sense if it would, cause you're right. Like he's sitting at the right hand of the father, but when a believer, um, shows up when a believer dies and goes into the presence of God, Jesus stands.
After we sit after we're humbled again, that's just such a powerful visual illustration. And this is my point. This was what the point I was trying to make is. then Christians should be the best people on the planet to sit down. We should be the, we should be the very first people to humble ourselves. We should not be the people that. that get all in our flesh and fired up about our rights and our, you know, like.
Again, Christians should be the, and that's what we were and still are in the world. But I think it's really hard, especially for American Christians, to get this because we have a Bill of Rights, and that's great. I love it. Love the Constitution. But what I'm talking about is before God, we have no rights. Before God, we gave all that up because we can't earn anything. And so I don't understand. Pastoring now for over 25, 26, almost 27 years.
I would say that's the one thing that I don't understand about Christians is, and I don't know if this is one, two ones here, two. One thing I don't understand is self-righteousness. And you understand why Jesus railed against it so much. He wasn't just railing against the Pharaoh. I don't like it when people are like, Jesus hated the religious people.
No, no, that's not the point. As if somehow religion in itself was wrong. And so therefore, the more irreligious you are. No. What Jesus railed against was self-righteous. And I can be religious and self-righteous and irreligious and self-righteous. Because what is self-righteousness? is i'm righteous in and of myself it's a product of me no the only thing that's a product of you bro is self-induced narcissism
Yeah. And not that you brought it up because of that, but it was part of the sermon, just talking about marriage and premarital counseling. And if you're living together, don't ask us to marry you. And you gave. A very loving way that we handle that, which is, hey, can you separate until you are married and repent of the sin of sleeping together? So it wasn't this. Hey, we're not going to do it. Get out of here. But in a self-righteous way, some people respond.
And leave the church and write the Google review, as you mentioned. By the way, the Google review was about me. It was. It was about Pastor David. I got a one star. You got a one star. Because I... I don't think they mentioned you my name, but... I don't remember. I think they just said a pastor or they or whoever. It was premarital counseling. I said, hey, you guys living together? Yes. Are you guys having sex? Yes.
Okay, do you want God's best for you? Yeah. Because we want God's best for you. And wow, it went south fast. And again, and we love those people. Yes. Like we're not, we're not like, you know, because people are like, oh. Whoever without sin casts a first stone. No, that's not what we're saying. What we are saying, though, is this is what God says. Yes.
If there is a trembling at God's word in a terrifying... sense over our sin we're not going to trifle with it we're not going to explain it away well this is like i said this is the 21st century year i don't care like again because if If sin is at the center of your life, and that's the problem with sinners, sin is at the center. That's what makes us sinners.
then I'm not trembling, then my words are what carry the most weight in my life, what I think. Again, God has the right to command us to do whatever he wants us to do. He's God. But when we understand, but God wouldn't give us a command if it wasn't for our good and our joy. And that's, we've had, now again, we've had a lot of people. come through premarital counseling and do listen to us. Yes. And they do separate.
And thank God so many of them will come back later and say, you know what? Thank you. Thank you for doing that. We are benefiting from that in our marriage now because we crossed lines then. And that's the goal is. All of us have to ask ourselves the question, Not as how far is too far, but are these actions making me more like Christ? Is this honoring God? Am I trembling at his word and what he said here? Or am I trying to be self-righteous?
Like acting like it's okay because I don't think it's wrong or culture doesn't say it's wrong. And nobody wants a one-star review, but I'll take one-star reviews if it's about speaking the truth. Yes, yes. All day long. Yeah, as Paul said in Galatians 3, have now I become your enemy for telling you the truth. The truth sets free. Yeah. You know, and again. And here's why we're saying this. I have never met a person in my entire life, and I don't think I ever will,
That has ever told me, you know what? I'm really glad that I, that I was immoral when I was younger. I'm really glad that I crossed the line in that, you know, I'm really glad that I slept around with a lot of people. No, like. No one in their life looks back and thinks, you know what, man, that was a great thing that I went too far. Yeah, I. I mean, you use the word appalled. I'm appalled by my pre-salvation life. Me too.
Well, this was great. And just getting into some of the things that we were able to pull out of Ezra. Oh, Easter. Easter. Yes. Yes. Yeah, you can. It's kind of big. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of a big deal, but it's a, it's a, it's. this series starts on easter yeah it's not just a one week thing yeah
Yeah. Yeah. So you have to come back all three weeks. Yeah. I mentioned this a few weeks ago. And you have to wear pastel all three weeks. No, you don't. No, you don't. This is actually Lindsay's idea because when we were laying this out months ago. So props to Lindsay.
She, we're just thinking about it because we have Easter and then we have Mother's Day, you know, and they're Easter's later this year. And so we were kind of like, I didn't want to start a new series right after Easter for two weeks and then have Mother's Day and disrupt that. And she was like, oh, what if we did? Like just like a mini series with Easter, you know, and I'm like, Oh, I like that idea. So then we broke it up into three parts of crucifixion, resurrection, ascension.
So on Easter weekend, we'll be talking about the crucifixion, Luke 23, because Luke 23 and 24 deals with all three of these aspects. Then the week after Easter, Luke 24, the resurrection, and then the end of Luke 24, the ascension.
So I'm really, really excited. We've never done this for Easter before, which is, and even the graphic that you mentioned has three icons on it. And Mason did a great job on that. So good. You may not realize that, but that's what they're there for. They're not on the billboards, but they're on the website. And so talking about, you know, crucifixion. So we're not going to get to the resurrection on Easter. I mean, I'll mention it clearly.
But I'll teach on it. Because if you don't, we're going to get a one-star review. Yes, we will. Understandably so. But we're going to talk about the crucifixion. Again, a lot of what we're talking about, you know, forgiveness. then the resurrection, and then we're going to talk about the ascension, which I've never really talked about. So it's really kind of looking at the last 40 days, if you will, of Jesus's.
life or death, resurrection, ascension, that period. And so we're going to dig into that Luke 23 and 24. So it's going to be really cool. Then we'll have mother's day. Yeah. That is the podcast for today. If you want a transcript of everything we said. Write it down. Write it down. Our producer is Brian Damero. Our video technician is the king, Keon Sadigi. Our key grip is Jakob Pushakovsky. Our film director is Marcos Guardiola.
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Our backsliding prevention officer is Luke Warm, our Swedish director of witnessing. No, our director of Swedish witnessing. There you go. Is Bjorn again. So he's not Swedish? He's just the director of it? No, he's Swedish. Oh, okay. I said our Swedish. I've heard it both ways. Yeah, I've heard it both ways. Our expert on Russian eschatology is Pitof Hell. Our director of holiness is mortification. Our staff counselor is Les Moody.
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And I have two today. I'm going to go with this one, though. Our director of The Matrix. Hmm. Neo Maya. Neo Maya. Because we think there is a Matrix? No. Oh, okay. No. Maybe I should have gone with the other one. Let me go with the other one. No, I like that one. I like Nehemiah. Our new director of Old Testament Boxing Underdogs. Philadelphia, the priest, the scribe, the master of the sweet science, Ezraki. Babylonian. Ezraki. They can't all be jazz. Oh, gosh. The king has one more move, so...