Hey everyone, welcome back to Tales of Recovery. This is Gris Alves, your host, and my guest today is Jessica Sanchez from Terra Madre. ¿También se llama Terra Madre? No, se llama Madre Sanctuary. Madre Sanctuary. Sorry. It's okay. But we're going to talk about this transition. Jessica has been a really solid friendship for me. She's a farmer. She's a medicine woman, healer, astrologer, mother, todo, no? And so I'm really, Moe, we've been planning to do this for a while. For a while, yes.
So thank you for driving all the way down here and meeting with us. And one of the things we were chatting before we started is to really want to talk about the realities of the life that you lead, right? Because you've been living on the land, farming, and for what? Maybe like? 21 years. Going on 22. 22 years. So maybe if you want to share how you left the city and the corporate world and all of that to move and transition into living in the land.
Okay. And then, yeah, we can talk about the realities of it and just life changes, you know. Because I'm sure it was different when your kids were little. I mean, I'm planning to do that now, which is kind of, I wanted to have you here and to talk about this, but... But, yeah, we'll talk about the life changes and kids. All those things are super hard to deal with. Beautiful and difficult. So, anyway, welcome. Well, thank you for the invitation.
Y qué bueno que ya estamos aquí after so many tries, back and forth. Back and forth. So, when I get asked how I made that transition, I, you know, I tell my story. And as time has progressed, I have realized that I had a huge tool on my side, which was time, yeah, which was time and age. I was very young, right? So because we tend to do things without thinking when we're young, it's a lot easier.
But there's medicine in that too because then as we get older, we start thinking of all the things that could go wrong and all the things that we're attached to. And that just makes our decisions a little bit harder, right? So when I came to the land at Terra Madre, I was 23 years old. And it was this opening to a world that I, obviously I knew that existed because, I mean, we eat and things get farmed, right? And to add to that, I'm Mexican and farming has been something that's been in my life.
And there had been influences with plantitas from my grandmother, but it was not something that I felt that I could do or something that it was easy to do, you know? So when I came there and I touched the earth for the first time and I sowed the seeds of corn for the first time, I did feel like this magical calling and I did realize that it was... Not necessarily an exit, but it was a path that somehow had laid out for me and that possibility had opened up for me. And I wanted to take that.
So, you know, going back a few years before, I had always been, you know, the black sheep of the family. I was always different from my friends. There was something that was always lacking in the life that I was being introduced to everywhere I would see, everywhere I would go. And I never knew exactly what it was. And my family couldn't guide me and they couldn't answer my questions. So in my teenage years, I got very involved with the Zapatista movement.
And that gave me a lot of understanding of what the world is like, what it could be like, and our role as human beings to create otro mundo, right? So then when I came to the land, I came to plant Zapatista corn that had been gifted to us by the Zapatista communities. So there was already a huge link in my past path to the path that I was being introduced to, right? Había una continuidad, digamos. Right, right.
So being able to put these two worlds together of this rebel activist heart that I had with I don't fit in this world and there has to be something else for me. Finding those two things at the farm on the land was really big. So I didn't even question it. Right. You know, I had a job. I had a corporate job. And I remember not even thinking about it twice. I quit my job and I took my little girl out of kindergarten.
No, I was preschool, actually. And I just moved into the farm with a little super ugly and small trailer that I was able to buy with my tax return from that year. And I went in without even knowing what I was going to live off of. I'm not going to talk numbers, but I started as an apprentice, so what the farm was able to give the apprentices was laughable compared to how much I was earning at this corporate job.
And they called me back to train. They asked me to go three months to train the new employees. I accepted it because they offered me really good money aside from gas and aside from daycare but I couldn't even do it for a month I would go into that office and I would be like what the fuck am I doing here and I would remember the garden and I just couldn't do it so I quit, The after contract that I got. And what job? What were you doing? I was doing international sales for a company.
And it was very hard for me because my family had, when they immigrated here, they did start farming. But they were able to let go of farming. And then they started working.
But for my mom when i when i had this job it was actually at a factory that she had worked before so she knew the whole thing she knew the whole operation right and she was just so proud of me because the the production and the shipping department were on the bottom floor and all of the offices were upstairs right so she was like you're in you know you're upstairs you made it Yeah.
But for me, that was one of the things every single morning that I would have to take the elevator up and they literally had a bridge that would connect the elevator to where the offices were. And you would walk through this bridge and all of the Mexicanos, all of the workers were down below you. And that would really fuck with me every single morning, you know. So something that was like something to give my mom pride was something that really fucked with me.
So that I definitely knew that I didn't want to do that and then when I quit you know my boss said to me this this this is your position you're going to be the lead of of international sales and I said I don't want your life we've talked about this on a personal level and I know how unhappy you are why would I want that wow and I left and shortly after he quit I found out so home. I knew that it was something that I needed to do and I didn't question it.
And I believe that was the driving force for me to be able to do what I did. Because if I look, you know, at other people and I've talked to many people that want to do that, that move in their lives. But I can see how much baggage they have. I didn't have any baggage.
You know, I had my two babies. I was a single mom with two babies and I just grabbed them and I went, you know, but then I see like once you've had this whole, and we're going to talk about that, but when you have this whole life already made up and you already feel yourself as this person to be able to leave all of that and make a transition like that, it is hard. And it's, it's not something to be ashamed of because it is a very big step in life.
Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like undoing. Yeah, I mean, you were 23. Yeah. I mean, when I was 23, good Lord, some of the stuff I was doing. You know, but yeah, I really like what you said about how it's more of a path, not really an exit. Yes. It hit home because it's like, you know, when I told Julio, I think, I mean, we've been wanting to buy a property to move and have space. And, you know, yes, farm food, have animals, but mostly for space, for community.
And year after year after year, I'm like, next year, next year, we'll pull equity out of the house. We'll do this. I'll win the lottery. I'll figure it out. You know, years and years and years. Honestly, I think we've been talking about it for maybe 15 years. And mis abuelos igual. They had, you know, we're always every weekend we're at the farm, we get the chickens. So I was like, yeah, it's something we got to do. Let's buy land in Mexico. Let's buy.
Total que nunca pasó. And about six months ago, I just, one day I told Julio, you know what? I just have this. Let's just sell the house and do it. By the time we wait to pull equity, do we want two loans? Let's just go. And he looked at me and he asked me, is this an escape? And you're like, no, no, nobody talking about it. And then, right, like two or three weeks of like, is it, is it not? And I realized, just like a peace came over. No, it's not an escape.
Because, I mean, I don't know. My parents died. I'm in front of people that are dying often.
I'm very aware that this is ending and I was like, let's just do it but I love that you said it's a path because now that's kind of like what I've been feeling, this is a path I'm not escaping, it's not an exit it's a path like you just said earlier I'm just going to be, reinventate or step into a different role because like you said I mean I'm not 23 years old, and the kids are older and how do you leave the kids and a whole restructuring,
you know, because you're also just moved from one, you kind of went through a little bit of this. Yeah, definitely. You want to talk about that? I'll talk about that. But before I talk about that, I want to say there's another point to the ability to make this actually happen and actually be successful. And it's also a very hard one. But it's definitely necessary. And that is to know that there is nothing for you in this world that you're leaving.
Oh, wow. Because if there is something that still kind of is calling out to you, then you're always going to be wanting or regretting. And it's always going to be pulling your energy out of what you're doing right now. Right. So for me, that boss of mine saying, hey, but this office is meant to be yours, and me looking ahead and saying, that's not the life I want to live.
That ability to know fully, yes, my life can go in this direction, but that's not what I want, was able to make me be fully myself and fully comfortable in that move to the farm. Because there was nothing that I had left that later on I could be. But what if I would have stayed? And what if I would have done this? And what if I would have done that, right? Right. So I and, you know, I've told a few people that ask me and I say, live your life fully and completely in in this world of, you know,
being in the city and just just do it. Just do it all the way until it's out of your system. And then once it's out of your system and you're saying there's nothing here for me, that's when you make the move. Otherwise, it's always going to be pulling you back, and it's not going to let you grow as you could grow. So that's one. And then the other one we were going to talk about is that transition from Terra Madre to Madre Sanctuary.
So now officially the name is Madre Sanctuary and Healing Gardens. I like that. I love the logo. It's super cool. Thank you. That's thanks to Jiberan and David. Madre Sanctuary and Healing Gardens. And yeah, and the thing for me was I wanted to keep Terra Madre because Terra Madre had so much. It taught me and it was my mother. and it grew me, you know, it grew me. So even the thought of having another name was very difficult for me.
But when I started talking to people, once we had moved, when I started talking to people, they kept saying, oh, over there in Terra Madre and Terra Madre this and Terra Madre that. So I realized there was a separation. I even was doing it. There was a separation between the project and the land. So it's almost like Terra Madre se quedó ahí. It's there. It's what it was there. And that's it. And then that move that we did created an opportunity for something different, right?
So I don't know how deep you want to go into the move. But maybe I can start by saying something we were talking before we started recording. So we were talking about emptiness, right? And we were talking about how that affects us and these life changes. and what they do to us. So let's go back to like 2021. I started having this very interesting review of my life in different ways, right? And, One, my kids, my older kids were leaving home. Secondly, I was having issues with David too.
We were thinking about separating. We're really contemplating that. And that went on for a few years. And then thirdly, there was something inside of me, right? I'm having this whole thing with Inanna's descent. I don't know if you've heard of the myth of Inanna. But I've been bringing it into the woman's circles.
Because it really was that it was a huge descent. I was, I was at a place in my life in which I felt like I had everything, you know, and there were some people that would come to me and be like, you're living the dream. You're living the life that we all want to live. I had this dog named Luna right now that I saw your cat. You told me her name was Luna. I had my little white husky miniature. It was an American Eskimo actually. So this is a white, beautiful dog.
And this one woman said to me, you even have the perfect dog, you know? So that's the kind of life that I had for about 10 years. And then all of a sudden, I remember, I remember being out in the fields and sitting and waiting for the sunset because it's been a practice of mine for many years. And feeling the rays of the sun and just, I was tired of a full day of work.
And it was in the middle of summer and I was like in mi gloria en lo alto de lo alto and I remember thinking wow I have a beautiful life and then the programming that we have came through and it was like, A ver cuánto te dura. You know? And I remember having that thought. I remember having that thought. And you know, years later, I realized que todo se me estaba derrumbando. La torre se me estaba derrumbando, ¿no? And I was like trying to patch it up
and what the fuck's going on? Everything was perfect. Y entonces se me va mi hijo a la universidad. Me enfermo yo de COVID. Me da long COVID. My kidneys were affected. My heart was affected. Then I realized I started going to naturopaths and they tell me that I have adrenal fatigue and that I shouldn't be going out to the garden anymore. So I started going through this whole process. And one of my first thoughts was, who is Jessica without the garden?
Who am I when I don't have to get up and go to the garden and do my thing that I love so much? And I started, one of my prescriptions was just go outside and enjoy the sun. Take your walks around the farm, but don't have a to-do list. You know? And that was really hard for me. Even like, I'm very peculiar about certain things. Like, I can't have my day be a good day if I don't make my, I don't think I've ever not made my bed ever in my whole entire life.
And that was one of my prescriptions. Be okay not making your bed. And I couldn't. Even when I broke my arm, I was making my bed with my broken arm. I couldn't do that one. I haven't been able to. So I had to go from this super active, I'm doing it all, I'm on top of it, I have everything under control, to I have nothing under control, And I'm just a fucking mush outside, just laying in the grass, taking in the sun. And I had no energy. I was just drained, fully, completely drained.
And I went through that. And I remember telling David, I've never been in this darkness. And I don't know if I'm going to be able to get out of it. And I remember talking to a friend of mine. And I told her, I said, I just want to be myself again. And she said, what does that mean? What does that look like? And I remember that day where I was there waiting for the sun, the sunset. And I, and I described it all to her and I said, that's where I want to be.
And, you know, months later, I was there and I was in that same place and I felt the same thing, but it was different. Right. But all this to say that now that I look back at that experience and then having to lose Terra Madre, I realized that that experience prepared me to lose Terra Madre.
Because if that had not happened and I had not detached from Jessica being in the garden the way I did for that almost two years that I went through that crisis, then it would have been very, very hard for me because that land meant everything. There was a moment in which I was talking to my kids and I'm not proud to say this little anecdote, but it's true. And I feel like it hits a lot of us. So that's why I like to share it.
I was telling my kids how important they were to me. And I said, you guys are the most important people and, you know, component of my life for far, you know. And my baby girl, La Mas Chiquita, she laughed and she says, that's not true. And I said, what do you mean? And she says, the garden is the most important thing in your life. So that was huge because she had recognized how much priority the garden had, right?
And even though all three of my kids were homeschooled and they've always been integrated into everything that I do, I do realize that I had workaholism and I did escape a lot of things going to the garden. Going to work. You know, so not, yeah, not because I wasn't getting in the car and going to work and going somewhere else. It didn't mean that I wasn't going to work. I was having that, that escape.
So that garden was that for me. And aside from that, you know, the garden taught me so much and so many stages of my life that having to leave it was very hard. And then the process of leaving it, because there was a point in which not only was the community asking me, but my own children were asking me, are we really going to just leave? Are we really just going to pack up and leave 20 years of dedication here? And there was that question and that opportunity of, are we going to fight for this?
And I know, and with the words of my son, he said, mom, you have the support of a whole community. If you speak out, they're all going to be here to support you. So when he said that to me. I really questioned in what direction do I move, right? Because yes, we could have, and I would always joke, if it gets to it, I'm going to tie myself to one of these oak trees and nobody is going to take me out, right? I would always joke about it. And then there was that time and there was that opportunity.
But given the circumstances of how the system is, there was no way that I was going to ask that from my community.
I was not going to put anybody in danger. and I realized that in the same way that I always say that that land was always preparing me for the next stage I realized she's doing the same thing right now right so in the same way that we were just saying our kids grow up and they have to they have to go out and they have to create their own lives this land had been my mother for 20 years so what do we do when we have children that are 20 years that are still at home like come
on get your act together go get a mortgage go figure it out go yeah so i feel like that she did that to me she was like you're ready to grow up you're ready to go out into the world and create something that not necessarily better and that's something that i prohibited everybody from saying that this new place was better but it definitely has a sense of refinement and it has the opportunity for us to go deeper, How did you find this new place?
Did you guys just start looking around for different properties? We were looking around for different properties. During that time, we had the support of the Land Conservation Fund that was going to help us buy land. And then they were going to sell it back to us with an ag easement.
So it was going to be cheaper, more accessible for us. but what they were offering us was like a hundred acres of avocado groves you know things like that and we're like what the fuck are we gonna do with that no that's not what we want to do so then we kept looking and we looked through them and and and the possibilities that they were giving us but then we started doing our own research and this this property just came up for us it wasn't fully listed it was
going to be listed in two weeks from when we found it and as soon as the open house was was there we went we walked the land and we we said this is it this is it this is it and then the conservation fund couldn't do it because it wasn't a farm it wasn't an established farm and the people that we would take to see it we were like oh so this is where we're going to put the garden and this is what we're going to do here and this is what we're going to do there But it
was just a freaking forest of like... Crazy weeds and nobody would see our vision. And everybody was like, how are you going to do that? So, and David and I were like, can't you see it? It's right here. So then we had to do a lot, a lot of movements to, to, to make that, that happen. But the movements that we had to do was mostly because it came very easy, but what we had to do is understand, or what I had to do was understand we're leaving Terra Madre.
That final decision, I mean, we had already gotten our 90-day notice, and I was still like, no, I'm going to figure this out, and we're staying. So I had to come to the terms, no, yeah, se acabo, like this is it, right? And then the other one is ask for help. Because since we have been, and that's another thing that we said we were going to talk about, We have been farmers for 20 years and farming is not a lucrative business.
And there is a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of things that you have to have in play in order to be able to get a mortgage loan that we had nothing of. And we had to look around and say, OK, who's going to help us with this? And my stepdad, he stepped up and that was a huge healing for me because I've always held on to this resetment per se with the masculine and abandonment from my father. And I never really gave my stepdad that chance to really step fully into that role until this happened.
And he was like, I'm right here and it's gonna happen and he made it happen. And it's interesting because one of the things, and I feel like this is medicine too, is, One of the things that I would always complain to him about. Your stepdad? Yeah. Was the time that he was a workaholic. Right. Right? You were never with us. You never gave us time. You're always working, blah, blah, blah. But all of that structure that he had in his life with his credit and his work and the steadiness, right?
That's what allowed us to be able to get alone. So being able to accept that and for him to for him to receive that for me, because I'm I'm the oldest right so my mom had me and then she met him my parents got divorced and then she met him and then they had kids they had three kids and my siblings are all the the oldest one of them is seven years younger than me so I'm I'm pretty you know so I was always like this reflection for both my mother and my stepdad.
So for me to say, Hey, thank you. All of those years paid off and I'm sorry that I didn't see it. You know, I think it was, it was great medicine for both of us. So that's really great. Yeah. And, and that, so that, that transition of going from to what am I going to do now with my life? To, okay, now you get this other place, to now having the ability to recreate myself.
And, you know, going back to the initial part of this conversation, yes, when you're 23 years old, you are brave and you're doing all of this and you have all this strength and you have all this clarity without clarity.
But understanding that those opening spaces to recreate your life come all throughout your life right not just when you're 23 yes and not getting stuck with all of that baggage and all of those attachments to who you think you are being able to just say just like you said before esta vida no es eterna yeah and we're here and we have the ability to play right so with that lightness of playfulness of that youth being able to say you know what i'm just gonna become someone
else yeah but you know i was i was just reading a post by my friend miranda and she was talking about the story that she wrote about a seamstress that sews herself thousands of costumes per se to be able to fit into the world, right? So that's another thing. So you can become somebody else just as long as you don't become somebody else. You're you and you follow that authenticity into your next evolution. Yeah. And you take that opportunity to just recreate yourself. Yeah.
And to have that connection. Because, I mean, I'm listening to you. First of all, the new place is amazing. We're going to talk about that in a bit. But the connection, like I'm hearing you talk about, it doesn't matter if you're 23 or 43 or whatever, there's still those openings. You know, who are you really? Are you wearing a costume or are you? Yeah, I mean, I can dress up and go dancing, but then I come home and I just want to have my sweatpants or I just want to be barefoot outside.
But the connection, and I don't know if this is something that I realized because my parents just died, you know, and I'm the oldest. And so, well, one of the things that happen when your parents die is you realize, well, I guess I'm next, you know? And it's not like this panic thing. It's just really like, what are you doing with your life?
You know, what are you doing? I, you know, I left the corporate world, what, I don't know how many years ago, and little, you know, I've been trying to do this differently, but it's like, what, I'm not saying everyone has to go and go live, leave the city, but how am I, I guess it's just what I'm, what I'm experiencing right now, as I hear you listening, as I'm hearing, as I'm listening to you. Y hasta se me fue la onda de que me metí en un vórtex.
Pero es just, ¿qué me conecta? ¿Qué me conecta conmigo, con mi corazón, con la vida, con un gran espíritu? Y pues la ciudad no me conecta. I love it. I don't mind coming to visit. Viajar a Nueva York. Bueno, que guapo ir a Nueva York. Pero por ejemplo, no sé, a Japón, whatever. But that's not going to change. You can still take a vacation somewhere. One of my aunts was here. So her sister had this big party and everybody got together and they had some of her ashes there.
And so I was telling her, she was one of my mom's really good friends. And she just was freaking out, like, how are you going to move? Es mucho trabajo. And I was like, es mucho trabajo wherever you are if you're not connected. Right? But it was like an hour of just her telling me, telling me all of her. And I was sitting there going, God, she's telling me all of her fears. And I don't want to make them my fears because my fear is staying here. And then what is going to be my life?
Driving to Kaiser Permanente for my next checkup. Because that's what the viejitos do. This is what the city does. Yeah. Your next appointment. Now the kidney doctor. Now this doctor. Now that, you know, that's all. Que hueva. Sí. I mean, that's just my, that's just my, I guess my thought, no, my, my, what I'm considering that it would happen if I stay. Sí. No es mi path. Exacto. Nuestro camino.
And that I feel that is the one thing that we need to, and that's the opening of that recreation that I was telling you, that you can recreate yourself into this otherness because we have these life stages that require us to have those rites of passage. Right. Or growing into different people. So not because we were this during our 20s and this during our 30s means that we have to be that forever. But that ese desprendimiento de lo que quiere decir soltar a esa persona, porque es una muerte.
Es una muerte de quien fui a quien voy a ser, ¿no? Pero if we don't take that, then we stop growing. And there's so many people in the world that just age, but they don't grow, right? So, like you said, if you stay here, you're going to be aging and driving to Geyser Permanente for your checkups, right? Or you grow in another place and you become another person and that other person gives you the opportunities of what you did and it's interesting because I remember.
Talking to my mom about what i was going through and she was like oh it's okay don't worry about it's just your midlife crisis and i was like but why would i have a midlife crisis my life has been perfect right so to me it was like this this mind fuck of like no pero i shouldn't be going through this because everything that i've done is i've done it because i i love to do it i have made my full decisions to everything that i have done you know i've always been a rebel
in that way of like todo lo que hago tiene que ser porque yo lo quiero and then all of a sudden this hits me like una pinche pareda you're just like what and and then my mom saying that i was like no because people have midlife crisis because they have been leading a life that they don't like and then they get to a point in which they realize i'm growing older and i'm not being who i am but that wasn't my case but then i realized that what was happening is it was this opening
to okay yeah you have been who you want to be and you've been loving your life. Pero ¿qué vas a hacer con tu futuro? Yeah. ¿Qué vas a hacer? Those initiations, like the transitions that you're really good at. Well, I mean, I see you doing this with your children and for other women. Well, one of the things that I had mentioned about Inanna and I won't go into the mythology, pero es esta mujer, ¿no?
En Sumeria, que es una reina, tiene su kingdom y es venerada en siete kingdoms around her y de repente she hears a call, of the underworld and she follows a call and she goes to see what's going on y es prácticamente, ourselves in the underworld right saying hey se te está olvidando algo there's something here that you need to look at and not many of us have the strength or the bravery to say let me look into this and see what's calling
me and what does it need you know and and the myth is is beautiful and it has a lot of insight and it's definitely a big message for us women to be able to, go into this into the underworld into the darkness and figure out okay but i don't know but i understand my path but i don't know where i don't know where i'm going to run There's so many distractions. I think if you're not in this path or in this journey or open to these.
There's just, in the regular world, there's just too many distractions. What do you mean? I just take another pill, I just get busier, I just buy something else, I keep on shopping, I keep on going, I get distracted with the kids, and what are they doing, and how many times I would go to these, get-togethers. They don't invite me anymore because I don't drink, but I would go. And the first thing they'd ask was, oh, what's your kid doing? What's your kid doing? What sport might do in this sport?
And he got the straight A's. And I was like, why are we here talking about our kids? Can we talk about us? There's like these, I don't, I love talking about my kids, but I'm saying like, if I'm going to hang out with friends, I want to talk to them. What are you, What is your life? And these distractions keep us from doing that deep shadow work or taking that... It is, it's like, it's one of those things, come on, I was just reading this in this book.
You know, like the four stages of life, you know, 025, like, the maiden, and then the crone. And these transitions, when you were saying that, everybody thinks it's a midlife crisis because you followed the world and you were supposed to do.
But what if maybe it's just mother nature saying okay name it whatever you want to name it you want to switch jobs or get a divorce or whatever but honestly, it's the way that nature works in us because it's time to check out what's really going on in there yeah exactly. Exactly. Y también entender que there is those four faces that are very popular, but there's so many more. And if we don't look at and we don't hear the call when it's very,
very, very soft, then it's going to come and it's going to hit us really hard. Oh, you're soft. Yep. And then that's when it pulls us into that underworld fully, like it did to me, that there is a lot of danger because you can really lose it.
You know, you can lose everything. And I realized when I came out of that darkness and I heard it and I read it, you know, how important it is once you have gone through that journey of the underworld to be able to come out and be a guide for others to go into the underworld. And not only, you know, in the way that we're used to in these women's circles. And I tell the women all the time, yeah, we can have our rituals and we can have our rite of passages where we can witness each other.
But to me, where I want to be there for you is when you're going through it because life has put you through it. Like you said, with what Mother Nature says, you have hit this stone and now we're going to really look into how you're walking, right?
It's a it's a funny thing that i want to bring up because it's it's important in the medicine world there's this this you know this thought this romantic thought that everything is the way it should be right and i always have that example it's like well no not really because if there's a rock in front of me and i'm not looking i'm not paying attention because Yeah, I met him hong, I met him in a cigarette or whatever.
Or a pastel, or a cup of alcohol, or whatever, and you don't let me see that damn stone that's there, I'm going to fall and I'm going to fall. Does it mean that, yeah, it was perfect? Yeah, because it's going to make me see, hopefully, one day, that I'm not present. But it doesn't have to happen, right? If I am present already, I'm going to see the stone and I'm going to evade it.
Entonces, cuando la vida te da esos rites of passage, those are the ones that we need to value and that to a certain degree romanticize too because a lot of times what happens is that we have those rites of passage and we ignore them. Yeah. And we just keep walking. Don't try to avoid them. Like, I don't want to feel that. Yeah. And that ignoring of them doesn't add up to you because you just let it go and you just keep walking.
But when you can take the chance to verbalize it with your, como decías, if you go out and you puedes platicar con alguien y decir, sabes que me pasó tal, me está pasando tal, right? And acknowledge this is happening and this is changing who I am and this is going to change my path, right? And then the other part of that is, yeah, that talking of our children, it's beautiful and our children are very important.
But like we were saying before, when we create an identity around being mothers and, you know, I'm this and I'm that and my child did this and my child did that, then when they leave the house, then it gets very hard because that's who we have been. We have been the mothers. So I think it's normal that it's going to be hard. Right. But yeah, to catch if that's my whole identity, that's my whole... First of all, there's too much pressure on the kids. ¿Qué necesidad tienen ellos?
Que yo esté bien. When they're older, you know. Emocionalmente. I'm not saying we can't, you know, help each other out community-wise. But I was talking to Golden a couple weeks ago. And she was like, I don't know what's up with this empty nesting. It's just crazy. And I didn't really figure it out until now that I'm noticing maybe the kids don't want to come to the farm. I'm like, holy shit.
You know, I get you, Golden. mis bebesitos, you know, like, you know, they come and go, but no, they're actually maybe are going to, it's good, it's good, it's just, son iniciaciones, they're like transitions, they're like these realizations of this dependency, because I don't think it's love, I think it's an attachment, a dependency, love is free and unconditional, but to notice it and to catch it and work with it and be like, all right. Sí, hacen falta huevos para enfrentarlo.
And to be honest, this morning I was thinking, what should I post today? It's been a winter. It's been the past three months. And I'm still in the winter. It's been like this intense deep dive of realizing what I'm really attached to, what I think I need to have in order to be comfortable or safe or whatever. and then, And I think that that's kind of like the work to get me to trust and open up and just be like, yeah, you said it today. You're like, there's a restructuring.
I'm like, sí, that's what we need to hang out. See, not just when we're going to record podcasts. Exactly. We need to hang out. Exactly. Sí, este, la vez pasada que hablamos, we were talking about the women's circles and you were asking me what was I doing with that and all of that. And I spoke to you about the goddesses, right? So right now I remember it because I feel like it's a good tool that you can use in other people.
So the story of Persephone y su mamá Demeter es que cuando se lleva Hades a Persephone, a su hija, y se lleva al underworld, Demeter ya no sabe qué hacer con ella misma, right? And she goes into depression. Y that's where winter comes from, from that depression of not having a su hija. Right. So, and then negocian, and it turns out that, yes, you can have her half of the year, but then she goes down to the underworld the other half of the year.
And that's where we end up as empty nesters, is in the archetype of Demeter. So that's where I tell women, you have to find the archetype of the goddess that's going to aid you to rescue yourself out of this Demeter that is in chaos because she doesn't have an empty nest. Yeah. Entonces ya están todas estas otras diosas that you need to look into and say, okay, so which one can I summon so that she can aid me in this new quest for, it's the heroine's journey.
How do I tend to myself now? Exactly. Right. and use those arquetipos in order to help you out of there. There was something else that you had mentioned. Oh, yes. So going back to the Inanna mythology, there's a whole review that she goes through when she goes into the underworld. The first gate, they take away her crown, right? So I was just saying about myself, I was living my perfect life, you know? And then from that, and then the underworld calls you in for this life review.
And the first thing that it takes away from you is your crown. And she loses, you know, seven of her powerful symbols throughout the seven gates of the underworld. And they're portrayed in different ways, different people.
But there's one that I really like to work with which is the chakras because we're familiar with it so imagine it's stripping you of all of your powers but it's also putting in review all of your powers so with the crown it's like who do you think you are right and And then taking off your crown, who are you going to become now? And then it goes to throw chakra, like how are you using your voice and how are you going to use it in a better way and so on.
But it's all of these stages that come up for review. And these moments of change and these moments of darkness really call us out to look at how it is that we carry ourselves in the world. Not going back to the costume and becoming.
Not who you make yourself to be because that's another aspect of this mythology in which Inanna tiene a su hermana Gemela the one that's the ruler of the underworld and she's the one that's repressed it's herself but she's a part of herself that's repressed that she doesn't show to the world and then there's Inanna the one that she shows to the world so you being fully yourself being fully authentically yourself how are you carrying yourself and how can you refine yourself? Right.
I remember you said that to me once when we had a ceremony at Terra Madre. At Madre. Oh, you see. No, at La Dentes. No, at La Dentes, okay. And then my daughter took some pictures. We had such a good time. That place was great.
But mostly, you know, your support in doing it. And I remember you looked at the picture and you said to me, I like looking at that picture you're so full of yourself but in a good way you know because I was oh yeah this is what I like to do I'm like in a place where I'm, grounded doing what I like because first I was like but then I understood what you meant which is kind of what you're talking about like when we repress that person and then we just show this
person to the world but then when we integrate them and I'm like, look, yeah, sometimes it's going to be shitty. Sometimes I don't want to come out and play. But cuando estás ahí parada and you're saying, like, this is who I am and I don't need your approval or I'm not going to be scared and not going to be who I want to be because you might be. Then that's, you know, those are good moments. I don't think it is like, oh, you check the box and then it's like that forever.
Claro. In and out, in and out. but uh but yeah that's a good analogy of yeah there's there's been a thing that i have had to deal with my whole life and that's being a leo being a leo oh because i have had to come into, peace with the the common understanding that people have of it and when they find out you know i mean it's funny because most people or a lot of people are are very anti-astrology and They talk a lot of shit, but they also pay a lot of attention, which is interesting. Yeah.
That phrase of being full of yourself is something that I have worked with a lot because people say it in a negative way, right? When you're full of yourself, you're just. But it's actually a good way because you're full of your authentic self instead of the costume and the pretending or making yourself small because you don't want to. Yes. And I remember there's this one woman, and if she hears this podcast,
she's going to know who she is. There's this one woman that said to me once, she's actually said it in a woman's circle and she said it to a few of us. She said, I was always scared to come and be in Jessica's space. She said, because I felt like I wasn't going to be seen because everybody was going to give Jessica attention, right? And that's one. Because she's a Leo?
That's one aspect. then another aspect is with another one of my very dear friends that that she has a very hard time showing herself right and she says i don't know how you do it and she says i feel like, there is she says i feel like there is this need for humility but at the same time to call for attention and i said well for me the way that i am i am who i am i'm not calling for attention, and I'm not asking for validation.
I could care less what people think, but I feel like that is what fills me up with myself, right? And like you said, it's better to be full of yourself than be full of like expectations or you're dressing up to people, please, you know? So- Honestly, I think the phrase you're so full of yourself was has been used to make you small and to make you shut up and to make you not be authentic. Yeah, I believe so too. So you're starting a new trend.
And I think that for me, it has always been very clear. And, you know, of course, as I mature, you know, I'm able to articulate it in different ways. And I wasn't able to even know that this is how I thought or what I felt before. But now I know that I have always had this very clear understanding of something super basic that is known in religion, right? We are created in the image of God. And something so simple yet so complicated is very hard for people to grasp.
So if we are created in the image of God, then we are perfect. Then people say, well, no, you're not perfect because you're human and you're not God, but our potential is right. And then, I mean, I'm not going to get into religion or anything like that, but there is, I believe there is this inner call for us to live. Grow and evolve and be better, not in a way in which you feel like you're always healing and you're never enough, but to know that you're enough where you're at.
But you can always be more. And not because you're more, because it's, you know, it's a very interesting and fine line. Just more connected to the truth of who you are. Because I do think we're, we're created in the image of God. So we're perfect. Yes? Because we're all part of this consciousness or if somebody says, well, no, you're not perfect because you're not God, then you're already in this separation of what God is. Claro. No, pero si eres perfect.
And yeah, I might have different habits. I might not need to eat or drink Coca-Cola all day, whatever. But one breath, one breath connects me to the present moment, to my heart, and to this youness and this unity, that I have come to learn and sense that that is God. Tú y yo aquí viéndonos a los ojos. It's not something out there that I have to be perfect or not. I always tell, you know, we have circles, and I tell this to myself, there's nothing to fix.
There's nothing to fix. There's just remembering who you are, reconnecting to your body, Being able to feel all these emotions In community, sometimes by yourself But that is That for me Eso es lo que me conecta a mí And that's why I want to go out, And live in a ranch Because it's easier for me to connect When I'm outside, Than when I'm in the concrete But I can connect in the concrete Because it's just inside It's just the breath Ya me fui por todo rabbit hole.
Sí, creo yo que regresando a esto de la tierra y irte a vivir al farm, hemos estado tan desconectados de la verdad y el entendimiento de que somos parte de la naturaleza. Entonces nos hemos separado como humanos en la misma manera de que no somos perfectos, pero es la perfección en la imperfección. Right. So. Right. Esa separación de el humano y la naturaleza ha causado muchísimos problemas, enfermedades y todo lo que tenemos, ¿no? Right.
One of the Toltec principles is que our life is our masterpiece, ¿no? So in that sense, it's not necessarily fixing, but it's working on your masterpiece. Right. It's like, what are you going to make out of your life? Recognizing it. Yeah.
Entonces este movimiento to this land, to be able to, I mean, for me, you know, we just have some very young new members of the community and they trip out because the other day one of them came up and was sitting there with David and I. And he's like I see you guys out here every morning and every afternoon you know we we do sunrise and sun and sunset every day and and then he goes and he sits there and we're just listening you
know silence and then these hummingbirds come about and they're doing their mating play and he's like wow there's a lot going on he's like I see you guys and I'm like what are they doing there for hours he's like and now I'm here and I see that there is a lot going on right I think that that understanding of. ¿Qué pasa en la naturaleza? No hay nada que ver, no hay nada que hacer ahí that a lot of people have because they're so used to the hustle and bustle of the city.
It's just something that has so much medicine. And that's one of the offerings that we have at this new land. There is a silence and you've been there. There's a silence that is just magical and it invites you to, oh, yo soy parte de esto también, you know? And you can sense it. When I went there, when did we do the ceremony? It was the solstice.
Right away. I mean, as soon as I walked on there, you could just feel like there was like a, not that Terramadre wasn't amazing, but this place just has a freshness or like a, no sé cómo decir, it was more of like, I think fresh is just the word. I came in there, first of all, Lucas is the one that's like, well, let's just do it over at the New Gardens. They're great. Okay, let me message David. Okay, I said, I'll message Jessica.
And I already kind of knew, like, yeah, we're going to go in there to open this up. Like, just to be a part of this, you know, with the music and with the circle and the medicine. And as soon as I got there, you can just feel it. I think it's great. I was like, okay, now. So it's almost as going there and realizing, like, because I talked to you once in a while, and the struggle and, you know, all these issues. And then when I got there, I was like, this was so, of course,
this was a path. Of course, this was worth it. It's beautiful. It really is. Thank you. Yeah. I love it, and it's gorgeous. Me costó trabajo, you know? I would still do my sun gazing, and I would still picture myself in Terra Madre for a few months. Well, there's so many years, you know, you get used to. And it's been six months, you know, that we've been in this new place, and we have done a lot. And it is developing into something that we didn't even know.
But then that brings up this other point of, and we hear it, and it's very cheesy, you know? It's like when you're able to let go of something, then something bigger can come through, you know. But being able to see it and actually live through it and me thinking of. Like I stayed at Terra Madre. I was the last one to leave. Like everybody was already in the new property and I was still, you know, camping out at Terra Madre. And I remember the last four nights that I stayed, everybody was gone.
Everything was gone. We had already moved everything. And I remember David said, well, ya nos podemos ir para allá. And I was like, no, I'm staying. I was like, you go. I really need to stay here by myself. And I stayed by myself. There's no other soul there. And I'm a moon dancer. So I remember bringing out my camping mat and my sleeping bag and thanking Moondance. I remember it clearly. I was like, oh, my God, thank you, Moondance.
Because just having to go through what Moondance gives us, como que te facilita todo. I was there and I didn't even think of it being difficult or, oh, why am I going to stay here when I have this new place? You know, it was just, no, I'm staying here and I'm staying by to land me by myself. And then. We went to the new land on, it was 8-8 portal, Lionsgate portal. That was the last day that I was there. And then we went to the new place and it was in the middle of summer.
So then I had this request for David. I was like, I want to sleep outside. I want to be outside. I want to see the stars. I want to connect with the land. I want to see what she has to say to me. and we slept outside for two weeks just under the stars that was our home our home was like in the middle of of the of the land and and and and i i was able to really connect with her and one of the things that i got from from the new land was this feeling of i'm not going to say neglect.
Because we have met the original owners and they had a lot of care for the land. But there is a disconnection, like you were saying. There was a disconnection because the people that were there, you know, they have their careers and they had like this vision. But it's hard. Even the owner of Terra Madre, and you know her, you know, she initially wanted to start a farm there.
And sometimes I tell David, you know, we're poor for a reason because she she had the vision of doing making making it into a farm but she never did because she had her house in the hoya she didn't have the need to right and these people at at the new place they had a vision but they never had the time they didn't even have the know-how and for us it's like we get there and we connect with the land right away so i i got that from her, like I said, no necessarily neglect, pero como olvido.
That's the word that I got from her. It's like, estoy olvidada. Me tienen olvidada, you know? And she felt asleep, como que she had fallen into this slumber of like, I'm being forgotten. I'm not being touched. I'm not being caressed. I'm not being taken care of. So I'm just going to go into this slumber. Entonces, as I started working, and as I started walking, and you know, just going around the different places, I started knocking.
There's a lot of boulders. So there's this one humongous boulder kind of like in the middle of the property. And that's the one that I've been knocking. On the most, still till now, you know, and I knock and le digo, ya llegamos, we're here, you know, and at the beginning I was hoping she would recognize my voice and I've been feeling it, but una de las palabras que tu usaste, freshness, right?
I do feel this freshness with her and it has been very interesting because even though we moved in, in the middle of summer, we have been fully in there because it was the move it was like getting used to it and then winter hits, so i feel like i'm in in a very interesting stage where we have a lot to do but at the same time we're in winter and i'm and i and i tend to follow the the seasons very well i mean 20 years of farming has
has done it to me i'm like pretty settled on how things are so i i know that we're and winter and this is you know time to slow down but at the same time there's so much to do.
So that has been a challenge to to not run and and to just take it take it easy but i have seen the the land respond in beautiful ways to what we're doing there and our neighbors they're all very happy with what what we're doing and and the people that have made it up there you know like yourself, I feel like there is this understanding that it is a place to deepen our practices when we go there. Yeah. It's almost like it's up-leveled. Yeah.
I can, yeah. I felt it right away. What is happening there in March? Like, if people want to go visit, how do they get it? I know they can sign up for their newsletter, right? Yes. So we have a newsletter that's going out quarterly. So that's another thing. You know, when I left my corporate job, I left my corporate job. So it's hard for me to be behind a computer and doing all of this. And then I can't hire people right now.
Plus, I feel like having somebody else, like, give the message wouldn't really be the message, you know. It really has been my voice all along. So I really don't want to let that go. So we started a newsletter. So it's a quarterly newsletter. Other than that we are going to continue our gatherings we are it has always been like this but there has been a a focus because we were so close to the freeway at terra madre and we were so accessible to.
To the city. And we really wanted to get people out up there to be able to have that experience and that inspiration for them to change their life around. So that had been definitely a focus for us. But now that we're so far, well, we're not that far, right? But it is a little bit more tucked in. But I was just having a conversation with some of the community members.
And I was telling them that one thing that I got very clearly, this last event that we had, which was very small for Dia de la Candelaria, was that those practices, you know, that are observed in many cultures, but ultimately are just the movement of the seasons. And when you have that connection with the land and you're planting and you're seeing how the crops are growing and you're moving with them, then you can pinpoint the times in which you need to gather, right?
So those gatherings are first and foremost for us as a community to come together and celebrate our work. And then from there, we extend the invitation to the people outside of the village, and we're more than happy for anybody to show up. But our focus is not going to be advertising and making this event, because then it loses who we are. What a relief. You're saying that, and I'm like, oh, yeah. It's so much work to have to. It's a lot of work. And you know what?
Maybe it feels like a lot of work because it's not supposed to be that way. Exactly. Right? Exactly. Yep. It has to be something that is just natural. Slow. You're gathering with friends, and you're doing your thing, you know? So we're working on the Temazcal. It's going to be built with rocks from the property because we have a lot of rocks, so we want to use what's there. So we're not bringing any brick.
We already have the first layer. Did you see it? You didn't see it yet, huh? I don't think so. So we have the first layer, which is these huge boulders abajo. La puerta está, like, se hizo solita la puerta. The first two boulders los pusieron en lugar y ya estaba ahí la puerta. So, pero obviamente la vamos a hacer más onda. So we are definitely going to, like, need to bow and really kiss the earth in order to go in.
Y ya de ahí ya lo vamos a levantar. Entonces esperamos que ya para marzo ya esté listo. Y la idea es hacer ese gathering. So we have been doing the seed gathering. Va a ser, creo que van a ser 10 años. Voy a ver el calendario. I'm going to verify because that's important. But I think this might be the 10th year.
And it started with that. It started with this understanding that, and I was telling Sarah the last time that she was there, because we were doing biodynamic farming and then we were doing Waldorf schooling, And not fully, right? We don't fully do biodynamics and we don't fully do Waldorf, but we take principles of.
And Steiner, I remember reading many, many years ago, I remember reading how he mentioned that one of the ways that we can begin this connection is by tuning into these changes of stations. So being able to follow the wheel of the year. and that's when I started doing the equinox, the spring equinox and the fall equinox.
So those were the two gatherings that we had at Terra Madre for many years and then we started adding to that the rest of them and now we're going to be doing the cross quarters too. So, and it's all that. It's just being in connection with the mother, with the earth. You know, the land has all of the codes. We just need to be open and present to be able to gather them. Entonces va a ser un evento de tres días. So we're going to begin. This is the goal.
Don't pin me to it. Because we don't know if the Temazcal is going to be done by then. But the goal is to start it with the Temazcal on a Friday. And then have a full day of activities on Saturday. Vamos a plantar la milpa as part of the events. We're going to have everybody in the community give their offerings. You know, we have sound healing. We have art workshops. We have cooking classes. We have a bunch of stuff that everybody is going to be offering.
And then on Sunday, we're going to end it with another Temazcal. Do people spend the night there? Yes. That's the idea. What is this going to be? It's going to be March 21st, 22nd, and 23rd. Okay. Wow. Okay. Nos la vamos a aventar. That's good. Sounds really good. Sí. Okay. So then, well, I guess I can just put this, I'll just put the link in the Instagram if anyone's listening and wants to go and they can sign up and get the information from there.
But, yeah, it's great news, you know, that there's these transitions and these restructurings and these, because I was thinking what you were saying, how like, oh, and I didn't want to leave Terra Madre and I stayed there and I stayed there. And all I'm thinking is like, yeah, because goodbyes are hard. Yeah. And that's part of the deal. Yeah. It's not easy to be like, okay, check out, let's go. I have an elder that mentioned to me, she's like, it's like you're going through
a divorce. Yeah. That's how it felt. Or a death. Yeah. Like, they're gone. I mean, it's, no? No, para mí sí, it was a divorce because I had been showing up for that land in a way that it was. It was my partner. It was. And now you can't be with it anymore. And now I can't be with it anymore.
It's still there. You know, I still sometimes drive by and the first thing I remember I'm noticing one time that we drove by and it was late at night and I drove by and I looked over, I was passing by on the freeway and I looked over, there was nothing, like not one light was on and I started crying and David was like, what, what's wrong? And I said, she's all alone. And it was hard for me because, you know, I was always there.
But now another thing that happened, and speaking of these transitions and this opening of yourself to recreate yourself, is that there I had all the weight of everything on me, on my shoulders. And... In this new land, I feel the men definitely stepped up fully. Like all the men that are in the community stepped up. David stepped up big time. He became another person.
And I realized that all of that that was happening, you know, you had mentioned something, all of that that was happening with the separation and all of that, it was also that. It was like, llega un punto en el que el crecimiento ya está para estallar. Y las cosas tienen que estallar para que cambien y para que haga ese crecimiento. Entonces, he became another person. And now I see myself and I feel myself and I feel very different. My energy is very different.
And I approach the garden in a different way. That's another thing that was really messing with me. Is that in terra madre i have always been the one that works right i have santiago and you know there's been people that that help out in the in the garden but i have always been fully there.
And this new land the the garden is pretty far away from me and it's completely the opposite of what i wanted i wanted my house like right in front of the garden and for me to walk into the garden back but i also had adrenal fatigue right so i also gave my all to this to that garden so.
Now i i i'm able to show up in a different way because i'm not in the garden all the time and i'm okay with it now because i'm developing all these other things that i had been neglecting of myself that were the things that were making me sick you know in in our tradition nos dicen tus dones, cuando se te dan tus dones, si no los pones en servicio, they can kill you. Entonces, it was all of these parts of me that I was neglecting that also made me sick.
That now you have more space in this freshness. Exacto. And, you know, you started this talk by mentioning my different titles. And I remember I used to say, yeah, I carry up a lot of hats a Terra Madre. Pero también, de la misma manera, es una fragmentación. Right. And, you know, in mythology también está la historia de the fragmented goddess. And how do we integrate ourselves? How do we become whole?
Yeah. Y esa es toda una tarea también. Pero todas estas etapas de cambio, de crisis, de obscuridad, they are all guiding us towards that integration, poquito a poquito. To figure it out. Yeah. To embody it, yeah. Yep. Wow. Well, thank you. Thanks for showing up and sharing.
Yeah, I'm excited. I love your garden And the space up there, I already told Lucas when are you coming Because we gotta get over there again Yeah well you don't have to wait for Lucas You can go whenever you want And I mean you were there in December And now if you go right now you're gonna see it very different Or maybe I'll go up there in the next couple weeks Yeah Thank you then again Thank you everyone for listening, Thank you Billy for recording,
Thank you Billy And we'll see you guys next time.