All right. Hey, everyone. Thank you for joining us again on the Tales of Recovery. This is Giselle Ruiz, your host, and my guest today is Talia. We're here in the studio with Talia Gloria Muriel in the back. She's going to make an appearance at Impala Recording. Thank you, Talia, for showing up, for coming over here so that we can chat about whatever's going to come through here today. day. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be here as we sit down and have a conversation.
I think it's been a long time of trying to connect and it feels great to be here and to be together. Yeah. Is that good? Is that the mic good? Yeah. Okay. I think so. It's picking it up pretty good.
It's picking it up good. I know, right? We've been trying to get together for months and we're traveling or you're traveling so i wanted to see if you just want to i love like i kind of got to see you to meet you well first of all through lacuna medicinals and then through gloria and jillian but i don't know if you want to talk about how you kind of your journey to, having this amazing project like birthing this project called lacuna medicinals i know you have others,
but I'm always talking about mushrooms here and their healing capacities and the way that they reconnect us to the body. And it's the only way I see humanity moving forward is if we connect to the body. So I'm so grateful that you're here and that you can tell us all about that. Yeah. Absolutely. So I can start a bit about, I guess, where it all started in my journey with mushrooms. And I grew up on Oahu in Hawaii. And my first introduction to the realm of psychedelia was through mushrooms.
Fortunately, I grew up around a lot of farmers and just like very rich, fertile soil.
And we have some native, like the Paniola sinensis mushrooms that grow out of cow dung on the east side of the island which is where i was born and raised and they were kind of just like around and i would see them sometimes and i always felt a fascination to not only mushrooms but just the natural world and plants in general and their ability to really heal our minds our bodies and also like deeper than that and just like our psyche and just kind
of like the fact that they can potentially have unconsciousness. But yeah, with mushrooms, I remember.
One of my friends, actually, and my sister's friends, and she's older than me, and she just took me to her friend's house one day, and there was, like, a plastic tub growing, with mushrooms growing on the counter, and I was just so perplexed by the idea that you could grow mushrooms, like, in a plastic tote on your counter, and I, like, I had so many questions for her, and she was, like, very enlightened, and we, like, we had a really deep connection just kind of right off the bat,
and she was like you know if you want some like i'll give them to you and i'll give you the spiel and you know like how to take them responsibly and it was kind of something that i was like really grateful for and like looking back now i'm so even more so like really appreciate her taking the time to like pull me aside and like give me these mushrooms that she grew and she was like Like, you know, this is a really sacred medicine. And I was like 15. Oh, wow.
You're lucky for them. Mm-hmm. And she's like, you want to be in a place where you feel really safe, with people you feel safe around. Set an intention, like have a prayer going into it. And these are all things that I think a lot of people are unaware of when eating mushrooms or even like any psychedelic for the first time. So I was really fortunate to kind of have that going into the experience. and, Yeah, of course, it was like completely life altering for me.
I mean, it totally like shook my entire existence. And I ate that with like my best friend growing up. And I just felt like a depth of emotion that I had never felt before. And I was always like such a deep feeler. And I always I also was like the black sheep of my family. So I think I felt a little bit lost my whole life or just like I was very different. And there was a lot of question as to like my identity and like where I wanted to go in my life and what my purpose was really.
And the mushrooms, they showed me a love like no other. And it was almost like this belonging that I had never felt before. And it felt like family, like I found my family. And yeah, it was beautiful. And I mean, I connected deeper with my friend. And we're best friends, but it just like, it allows for this like even deeper connection and just like unraveling of so many layers of your psyche. And it was just like all together a beautiful experience.
And from that point moving forward, I was like, so for the mushrooms, you know, and I went away from Hawaii to study. I wanted to study like naturopathic medicine, but I ended up getting a scholarship to SDSU. That's how I ended up here. And I was studying nutrition because I wanted to help people heal with food. And I was in school for a year and I was like, I'm not really feeling it. Like I miss home a lot. And I was like really depressed, honestly.
I've like struggled with mental health really my whole life too. And I just got the sads, you know, living in the dorm room and feeling really disconnected from nature as well. And so it's like, I'm going to grow mushrooms in my closet. And I did. And I was selling them and people would come back to me telling me about their experiences. And it was so profound, you know.
And then I sat with mushrooms again and they were like you know stop selling us like just just get the medicine away and like trust and like let that unravel you know so i started to do that and it was just like so clear that there was work that i needed to do with the mushrooms and like that it really was part of my dharma to share that medicine, and i actually dropped out of school to kind of follow that path and it was
just like a deep And just like intuitive knowing that I needed to drop out of school, but it was also very scary because it was like 18 at the time and didn't know really what I wanted to do. I mean, like I know what I was like passionate about, but I was like, how am I going to make a career out of this? But it was sort of just like the sleep of faith that I took. And then I worked in the cannabis industry for a little bit, which was kind of like my segue into working with mushrooms.
But I remember, yeah, meeting like my mycology mentor now and basically just showing up at a mushroom farm and being like, please hire me. Please, I wouldn't do that. Please teach me, you know, how to do all of the lab work.
And I just showed up. and like people will be like well how are you such a good farmer and I'm like every good farmer just shows up to the farm every day and you know develops a deeper understanding for this organism and how it functions and that's kind of what I've been doing for the past years like really diving into the world of mycology and working with not only sacred mushrooms but also like medicinal medicinal and gourmet mushrooms and just seeing how they
can benefit humanity as a whole that kind of led to my journey in creating lacuna medicinals where we have a line spagyric medicine which i can explain yeah yeah yeah i was going to say what is spagyric yeah so we have an apothecary with all different types of medicinal mushroom medicine and then we also supply apply sacred mushrooms for mostly facilitators and we.
Offer microdose protocol support so that's kind of a little like blurb about what we do but spagyric medicine i think is what really sets our apothecary apart and just like the the way that we prepare the medicine so it's like a a completely holistic model of both preparing and administering medicine and there's many ways to make a spagyric but and i could talk about that what does spagyric even mean yeah it was a the word is
coined by paracelsus and it means it's like spalgerio to separate and reunite oh okay yeah and what a spagyric basically entails it's like pulling apart of all of these different.
Elements of a plant or a mushroom or even like a neural or yeah or a metal okay even yeah there's a lot of different sectors of alchemy that you can use spagyria for it's kind of like an umbrella term but it's like to pull all these different constituents apart and then to put them back together to create a whole medicine so the spagyric is consistent of.
The soul and the body and so the mercury the soul mercury is the spirit the sulfur is the soul and the salt is the body okay and all of these have so like usually a traditional tincture doesn't actually have the body or like the mineral component so when you filter out the plant material generally throw that away and keep the tincture portion but with the spagyric you would, calcinate and burn that and leach the minerals and then reintroduce that into the texture and what this
does is it creates like a pre-digested medicine that is more bioavailable and more potent so it kind of processes it like your body would process it but and then so when you take it it's already and it's like an easier to take to absorb form so i kind of exactly yeah that kind of makes sense yeah so how do you do it like is there like a i'm just you're saying this And I'm picturing like a chemistry lab and all these machines.
Yeah. Or do you just boil it? Yeah. So there's different levels to it. Okay. You can totally make a spagetta from your kitchen and just do it like a standard tincture with alcohol. Because the mercury of like the plant kingdom is universal. So if you're using like cane alcohol, you don't have to do the entire process of distilling the essential oil and then fermenting and getting the alcohol.
That would be known as like a magistrate or like a true spagyric would be like all of the different components and using that plant and fermenting that plant and getting the mercury from that plant.
Whereas if you wanted to do it you know on a more commercial level or just use what's more accessible to you you can use like a cane ethanol or i mean even most ethanol it from the spirit realm is like cane or corn or grape right so what do you mean when you say the mercury the pun Yeah, so mercury is not referring to the metal in this case. It's an alchemical term that refers to the spirit, which is the alcohol in this case.
Yeah, so that's just one element of what makes a spagyric, essentially. century. Okay. So then when you make, because I know you have like Blue Lotus, right? Spigerics and mushrooms. Okay. Yeah. So you got into that before or during? Well, first you started, we totally jumped off into like, wait, what's the Spigeric? Yeah. I mean, I could talk about that forever. It's like pretty complex. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, if we can, but let's go back really quickly just to how, because you started showing up and you started doing the mushrooms and you're like, I'm going to grow them. You grow. I kind of want to talk a little bit too about lion's mane and like all these other mushrooms and how those are very helpful for the body and the brain. Because you do, you grow those too, right? You cultivate them. Yeah, definitely. So I work for a gourmet and medicinal mushroom farm called Mindful Mushrooms.
Shout out, Mindful Mushrooms. Yeah, yeah. They're located in East County, San Diego in El Cajon. And we're growing roughly 12 to 13 varieties of mushrooms. Lion's mane is our biggest producer and what we sell the most of. And yeah, it's just been amazing to learn more sort of about like the chemistry of these mushrooms and the potential that they have to work in the body.
And lion's mane is really unique and sort of this like a dingba of a mushroom because it works on the brain and then in a really fascinating way and it promotes neurogenesis and there's a lot of research being done on lion's mane currently and just like how it can be preventative for dementia yeah and alzheimer's and i think that's pretty extraordinary it also It also works on the gut and the immune system.
And I think it's just great for overall health. And I definitely can feel how it has helped me. Yeah. Yeah. I take it all the time. Have you figured out... Like how it works? Like you take it from the gut, goes to the brain. Like what is the... Yeah. I mean, I just don't even have words for it. Sometimes I think about that. Like, okay, I'm going to eat an apple. But how does it work? You know, like I'm chewing it. It's digesting.
I know it's fiber. I know it has nutrients. And I know it goes into the bloodstream. But it doesn't do what a mushroom does. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a little bit more complicated than we even know. Currently with mushrooms, there's like so much research being done on, yeah, how like these beta glucans and like all of the other medicinal compounds like found in mushrooms like really work in the body.
And I think a lot of, and like in vivo versus in vitro studies and like if they're even like telling us anything, really, I think it's also new.
With lion's mane like they have found that like these erinacean compounds and so it's haricinones and erinacean compounds and those make up most of the middlestone compounds so some of them will work on the immune system and other ones will work on the brain basically like to really oversimplify it yeah but they're still finding out like means of you know, like making extracts that kind of embody the entire mushroom and all of its
medicinal benefits because it's really important to do like water-soluble extracts and also alcohol extracts and sort of combine them, whereas like some other plants don't have like the same qualities. Yeah. So it's different if you take a lion's mane and powder than if you take it and do you make a spirogenic of it? We do, yeah. It's different. There's like a lot of talk on like the difference between powders and extracts and things like that.
But it does make sense that like an extract would be more bioavailable than a powder would be. And I have nothing against mushroom powders. I think that they're great. I just think that you can get more in a smaller amount. Dosing like a tincture or a spagetti yeah yeah that makes sense and do you does it also i mean making the the lion's mane you mentioned another mushroom what was it.
Cordyceps and then we can talk about amanita because i know like the main rock stars are lion's mane cordyceps reishi those are like the three ones that are really like the talk of the the town currently and i think a lot of mushrooms don't get enough credit or that it's just not enough like research done on them but yeah lion's mane and cordyceps is like incredible i've been learning more about that and just really experiencing the benefits of that mushroom what is that what
is the cordyceps like what is your experience in the benefits from cordyceps yeah cordyceps is pretty amazing i mean disclaimer i'm not like a chemist or a doctor but this is how how it's worked in my body and it increases blood oxygen levels so like when i was in telluride a lot of people were getting elevation sickness because it's like so high in elevation and cordyceps was like an amazing ally for that so yeah it increases blood oxygen levels like
i just had a crazy like something called valley fever it's like an infection of the lungs actually and not equally. And cortisol has really helped me in just returning to my breath, really, and coming back to it and taking deep breaths. And it's super vitalizing and energizing. Studies have shown that it helps increase stamina and endurance, too. To bring it to a hookah. Gotta bring it everywhere, really. It's great. It's also great for libido.
Balancing hormones okay yeah oh so they would be like if we okay say i want some i could just be like okay can i buy some from you and it's just a tincture and i just take a drop every day or is it like a yeah that is one way to take it generally it's it's two grams per dose and a lot of the cordycepin is alcohol soluble so the powder probably wouldn't be as great of an option, No, I would use pyrogyn. No more powder for me after this.
But if you think about it, in Chinese medicine and their use of all these mushrooms, they were brewing tea because that's what they had. So you do get a lot of the polysaccharides and definitely a lot of medicinal value from tea. You will just get more with cordyceps, especially if you choose a spagyric extract.
So it's just more concentrated than kind of is that it's more concentrated it's more bio bioavailable and you're actually getting more of it to cell compounds so like overall yeah i guess i've been taking reishi i don't know if it's by i don't know i'll show it to you before you leave it's just like it's so the taste is so bad oh yeah reishi is quite bitter but i just okay here we go And I really feel, actually, a friend of mine, my acupuncturist, Ryan Lee, gave it to me,
I don't know if you know him, but he's like, you need this because of all the energy you're moving and every time you do a ceremony and blah, blah, blah. And literally, I can feel when I stop taking it and then when I take it again, just every day, it's. I mean, it's subtle. It's not like all of a sudden I feel like I'm high or anything. But you can, it's like, yeah, the energy comes back, better mood, more alert. I don't know. That's just what the, I guess what the reishi does. Is that, yeah.
That's definitely my experience too. It's also really good for the nervous system and works on the liver too. But I noticed that it really like allows me to drop back into my body when being in my mind a lot.
Yeah that mushroom is incredible and definitely more one of the more studied mushrooms and really like widely used in chinese medicine and was known as like the divine mushroom of immortality and actually like only royalty could use that mushroom at one point in china and like you're found that mushroom and you were royalty then it was like a problem oh really yeah wow they didn't don't want to share the wealth no yeah these hierarchies they suck well cool
so then well i mean i'll put all the i'm sure people are already going where can i get some so we'll put all the your web page or because you do sell them online yeah we do yeah so that we can get all of that and feel i just love how we can heal with food and mushrooms instead of, Well, I'm not going to go down that route. But, but. So, okay. So then we were talking about before we started about the Amanita
mushroom. We were. Yeah. Yeah. Amanita muscaria is one of my most beloved, favorite mushrooms. We also make sphaget medicine with Amanita muscaria. Amanita is a genus that has a lot of species, But Amanita muscaria is like the notorious red mushroom with white cap emoji. The Santa Claus one? Yeah. Yeah. Or so they say. I feel like there's a lot of talk around, yeah, just like folklore uses of the mushroom. And I've gotten to experience some very, very magical moments with Almenida.
And I think there is sort of this like misconception around that mushroom just because of like truly like lack of knowing. And just like a lot of misinformation, really, of people thinking that it's like really toxic, really poisonous.
And it definitely can be toxic it's just about preparing it properly and it has something called ibotenic acid in it and that's what's responsible for like making you purge and like getting an upset stomach when ibotenic acid yeah that's usually when you take it fresh so okay and if you dry it properly it's decarving it and actually like converting most of that ibotenic acid to muscimol and that is the like active alkaloid that works on the brain and it
works on the GABA receptors in the brain so different than psilocybin which is really interesting because I've noticed that I mean not all of our clients respond well to psilocybin like it's not for every single person and I think that's like with anything you know and there are people that have responded well to Amanita. I've heard stories of people who have had like.
Pain that you say a lot or people who struggle with like really really bad addiction like and i mean it was like sort of their last resort and it and it helped them get off of like opiates and things like that so there's like there's a lot of magic around that mushroom and of course like do your research before you partake but i just feel like i'm an advocate for like the beauty and the potent healing that mushroom-like bodies, yeah.
So when you say the Amanita works more with the GABA receptors, so it's more calming than like psilocybin? Yeah, well, it's so interesting because like, so the mushroom is like the trickster archetype, right? And for a lot of people, yes. And for certain people like myself, it's super energizing. Okay. It will be like very stimulating to my mind and sort of like calming to my body. Okay. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, but it's definitely not like, oh, I'm going to go to sleep now.
It's more so like, I want to play in the forest and play cartwheels and flowers. Okay. So what's the difference between that and like a psilocybin experience? It's not as psychedelic? It's definitely not as potent. And it's not as like, I feel like sometimes with psilocybin, it's like you never know what direction it's going to go.
I would say with amanita it's more gentle and yeah just more subtle okay you're not going to like go on a full journey unless you take a significant amount but like when we brewed up tea that one night we brewed up an entire ounce of tea and drank it between a few people and it was really nice whereas if you were to do that with like the sacred mushroom you would be tripping paintballs okay and i also heard that amanita is not in like the illegal substance oh yeah.
There's sort of this like gray area with things like amanita and even like cactus if it's not dried and powdered like if it's like this hempidva plant yeah so and a lot of these mushroom chocolates that people are now selling in dispensaries they'll have amanita they'll they'll be labeled as like having magic mushrooms in them and then they'll actually be like amanita okay okay so the amanita is not a magic mushroom or not considered i mean it they're all magic all mushrooms yeah i'm
like well actually yeah but for like the average person same way i think they consider magic mushrooms to be like suspended mushrooms okay yeah yeah. Okay, everyone, give us one second because we're going to pause. Okay, so we're back. Thank you for that pause. Well, you guys didn't pause, but we did. And we were just laughing about how, well, we're talking about the Amanita and how some of these labels, you say they don't have any information besides magic mushrooms.
So, Gloria, you said you couldn't find the, like you scanned the thing on the envelope or the QR code and it doesn't take you to the ingredients. And probably part of that is because they can't really say, you know, I mean, whatever. But I guess the point is, well, because you told Gloria, well, don't get it from the story. Find it from the clinic. But so it's important, right, to know the source or to where or what would you recommend to someone listening?
Of course, besides to go on to La Quinta Medicinals, but because you don't know sometimes what you're getting. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I would say, I mean, all time best, grow your own medicine if you can. And I also understand that that's not ideal and accessible for everyone. But I would say the more like direct of a connection you can have with the grower, the better, and especially with these sacred plants and mushrooms.
Germs yeah i think that that's something that's really lacking with the medical industry too and like just kind of like mindlessly popping pills and of course like it's a much different concept but i think that with anything it's best to be mindful of like okay where is this coming from and like what hands touched this before it ended up in mine you know and that goes for food as well well. I just think that there's like a beauty in knowing who grew your food and your medicine.
So if you know a brewer that you trust and that you feel like is integrity with the medicine, I would definitely recommend sourcing as locally as you can or from someone you know, or you can message me.
Yeah. It's so, it's so, it's so good to hear you say that because it's, yeah the i always always want to remember the sacredness the the and it's not like a sacredness in some religious way at all it's just like how important the plants are not just the mushrooms but like all the plants and touching the earth and growing your own food and i really think that that's what's going to save us as humanity.
We can't be buying stuff at Walmart for food or chocolate mushrooms in the dispensary where you don't know exactly the process they've been through, who touched it, the energy that it has, and never mind pharmaceuticals and just popping the pill, like you said. So I appreciate that you say that because it's 150 percent. I don't know, beyond important, right? Beyond important. Life is so crazy. Life is so intense. Everyone's having a shitshow of a life and stress and this and that.
But when you can connect to the truth of, yeah, because we are a mushroom. We are a plant. You know, in a way we are, but we're so, we think we're not. We think we're so separate and that we can do whatever we want with them and sell them here and put them there and that we're these owners. And honestly, we're not. So I really appreciate you saying that. And so to connect to, well, first of all, yeah, to where you're in medicine, to connect to your own.
And when my mom got sick with her stroke, we had like these five or six huge plants of marijuana because it was the only thing, Santa Maria, that would help. And, I mean, it was hilarious, right? When I was 16, 17 years old, I would be getting in trouble. She'd be hiding my, what is this, marijuana, you know. And then when she got a stroke, she's like, let's grow some plants. She'd come and water them.
And I'll have to show you a picture. But it's impressive, and it sounds like it's not a big deal, but it is a big deal. It's a huge deal that you put a seed in this. I mean, I guess mushrooms is different than a seed, but. It's a spore. It's a spore. Yeah. Same, same, but different. Yeah. A little more complicated, I'm guessing, but. Yeah. You know, I think, like, one of our biggest downfalls as humanity is really the disconnect from nature.
And sometimes the best medicine can be really simple and it can be in our backyard and putting our feet in the soil you know and just like returning to what we know as home and that's kind of one of the biggest things i think the mushrooms have taught me it's just like they've really held my hand and walked me home and showed me like what's important in this life and i think Like we can get like so overcomplicated and like almost feel like we're on this hamster wheel of having to survive.
And the mushrooms just, they allow me to return to my heart. And yeah, just kind of like that's that really good heart medicine. And I do have tendencies to be so in my mind. So it's just, I'm so grateful. Yeah. How do you think it works? I always think, like, I have very esoteric explanations about why and how the mushrooms connect you to the heart. Like, what is your take on that? Mm-hmm.
Is a hundred percent heart medicine i've never felt love like anything beyond my life besides, when i've had a deep mushroom experience you know i do think that a lot of my philosophy revolves around kind of emerging spirit and science and that's kind of what alchemy is like it is like the sacred science so my like initial response to that is like seemingly very woo woo but i mean look at where i'm at i'm talking to you that's okay um but i think that like what was reality here yeah exactly
in my world too but yeah mushrooms i think they have this like, wisdom that is like coding within their dna that is so ancient that they just like they have very very, very magical ways of working upon our bodies. And they know what we need. Like, it's pretty amazing to see how they tinker in individual bodies and souls differently based on what we need.
But it's also, I mean, it's still being studied, right? But like, there's something called like the default mode network of the brain, which is like where we store our ego.
And the mushrooms kind of help with like the dissolution of like who we think we are and i think ultimately like trying to put a label on ourselves is is not really helpful for like the evolution of who we are and mostly it's just like being one and being being in that like love frequency is what's gonna get us anywhere i think the mushrooms like just allow us to attune to that right you kind of yeah they almost like melt you into that oneness yeah for me
it's usually that default mode now we're going wait wait wait okay let go let go let go let go and then wait wait wait the nervous system is just like protecting and resisting and then okay i'm fine which is like you started the whole conversation with your friend that saying you need to be in a safe space but but yeah that that makes sense it's a spiritual, like a connection to i mean the natives in the aztecs they call it the god you
know the flesh of the gods who basically are connected to the everything right and there's a theory that like the fungal organism was one of the first you know like the first living organisms on planet earth, And I mean who knows but they've definitely been around and they've seen a lot and they've evolved through a lot Yeah, and they're definitely. Benefiting humanity and like a really powerful way like right now, especially there's like a huge shift in consciousness.
It is. It's tremendous. And it's, I really like that part of it is, Paula's laughing at me because I said tremendous. Oh, I thought you were laughing. Sorry. I thought it's just so important how we're shifting from, or at least I work with a lot of people that are shifting from, well, these antidepressants aren't working.
And can I do a mushroom journey? any well first we're going to wean you off and try some microdosing and other you have to work with the body right you have to do breath work and move in nature and yoga it's not like a one, they're beautiful helpers but what i'm saying is it's not like the one answer but just the shift from that and this is what i'm seeing i guess everybody sees different things but the shift from depending on these pharmaceuticals to sort
of keep you flatlined giving you all these other symptoms, side effects, to moving to like, oh, this is who I am. And I've just haven't really have had the capacity to remember that I'm love and that I'm not like the ego or the personality, like you said. Do you find that that's part of, or how do you, how is, I guess, how are you experiencing the shift in consciousness in the space where you're working?
Mm-hmm. I feel similarly to you, a lot of our clients are kind of making the shift from pharmaceuticals and antidepressants because they don't work for that anymore. And I think that it's different for everybody. And I do think that there are a lot of benefits for Western medicine. But in this case, I do feel like mushrooms kind of have this ability to work deeper in our subconscious where it's like really targeting the root of the issue.
And what I like to say about mushrooms is like we want people to be independent, not codependent on the medicine. So it's not something that people will need to rely on like they will, you know, an SSRI for what, like forever. So I think just empowering people to take sovereignty over their own bodies is a huge part of our mission. But I'm seeing it. Yeah, I'm seeing it there.
I'm seeing it just like all of these threads. guides i do feel like when you work closely with the mushrooms and also just like are aware of the magic that's happening like beneath our feet within the mycelium but also like above and the stars and like just realize the interconnectedness of life all this magic starts to happen around you as well and people are just like becoming very receptive to plants as like potential healers and just like becoming more open-minded in general and people who I
like would have never thought as well. So that like feels really potent and it gives me hope for humanity. Yeah. I think it's simple. Like it's the reconnection with nature and returning to the old ways, but kind of like refining that. What do you mean by refining? Because I think like we're in a new time and with sort of the influence of new research and technology and all of the things.
I think maybe the ways that the indigenous people did what they did was because of like the time and space that they were living at. And I think that things can be done differently now, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we don't have to do it just like, yeah, we can recreate different beautiful ways to do it without feeling like you're an imposter or something. Or that you have to be, I don't know, from Brazil or from Oaxaca, Puerto de Cidade.
Right. You know what I mean? That's what I mean. I think it's just more of something that feels like approachable to anyone, even in like an urban environment. Yeah. And it can be really simple too. It can be like having a little herb garden, making tea from your herbs that you grew. It's like these small little things that really caught up. Yeah. And everyone can do it. Golden, I think, is the one who told me years ago, because she had a little small apartment.
All of the stairs were chamomile and rosemary and basil and some other herbs in her little front yard. Yeah. Not the front yard, but the kitchen Kitchen cell. ¿Así se dice? Kitchen cell? Yeah. Yeah. The window cell? The window cell. Okay, yeah. I'm like, there's something about that. There's something about the kitchen window cell. Missing a word?
So how have the mushrooms, like, do you have, I'm curious to see your perspective on, What are the messages that, like, the mushrooms have told you or that you'll receive? I know some are super personal, but if you want to share. Yeah, definitely. I mean, so much. Yeah. So much. And a huge one is that they've taught me that I know absolutely nothing. And that nature is, like, so incredibly complex. And that it's truly a gift to be alive. That was one that was a huge takeaway for me.
Just feeling like so happy to be here that's like not something i've always felt so the mushrooms like really they also reminded me like how important it is to play and reconnect with my inner child and that really has been the medicine of the mushrooms to me in a lot of ways like i will feel really really intense like you know death and rebirth cycles and then i'll feel like a newborn baby afterwards you know yeah and they just remind me like a side of the simple joys in life and what's
important and i think a lot of the times like it's really easy to get caught up yeah in this world that we live in yeah it's going super fast and it's yeah i was sitting outside by the fire yesterday with julio and he was telling me i was you know we're like we lit a fire and we're like okay i was getting a little bit stressed out about work and this and that and he's of course always helping me calm the fuck down he's like you know like look around
you know because we it's like everything we decided we were going to do when i was first pregnant with paul like it's his hop like they said you're not going to have any babies on yes i am you watch. Paula then five years later you know santiago and then i want to live in south park no you yes here we are. I want to do this. I want to sing with a band. We have this music and we want to do mushrooms. Everything that you think with intention and with heart sort of like has been
happened. So he's telling me like, why are you worried? Like it's going to happen. And one of the things he said is like, you know, we were sitting there crying. I'm like, you're right. You're right. Let me just self regulate. Let me, let me do what I teach. Let me just breathe. And, and then he looks and he's like, you know. It's the outside messaging that like gets to us.
Like it's the surrounding, you know, the television, the social media, the people that you're with, the messages that you're getting, that you need more and you need this and that's what's going to happen. And it's like, it's true. Like there's such this huge influence.
And then it's almost like for me, and I'm saying this because this is what the mushrooms have helped me realize, is like to sort of not ignore because all that stuff is out there but to not let it control you like to connect more to the truth of the heart like the default network is the protector is the one that's looking at all these images going oh you need to hurry and hustle or else you're, gonna be i don't know on the welfare whatever but so it's i appreciate you
saying that because that's that's kind of what happened yesterday is not allowing those outside sources to consume you is a little bit of the work and when you come in with nature when you sit with the mushrooms it's like let's play we are interconnected can you look at the stars and at least the first mushroom journey i ever did the main message was holy shit no wonder people want to come be alive, like i realized like oh the body feels so good like whoa you know and you don't feel so good.
Or i had never felt as good as that like you mentioned that at the beginning what are these mushrooms allowing your body to feel and this is the body that we're living in so what the what else do you want yeah it's really beautiful actually and to have these, allies with us along the way i think no matter how so-called healed or involved you are like Like everyone needs a reminder every so often. Yeah. And I'd say the mushrooms are like a really good teacher.
Like they'll tell you the truth, but then they'll give you a hug and tell you that it's okay. And then they'll be like, what's God's outside and play now. Yeah. You know, and like not take life too seriously, but also know when to take it seriously. Right. And when to be in devotion. Yeah. And I just think that like, that is so beautiful, you know, like having absenteeism. To a medicine that is so ubiquitous, like that is growing in every continent and so accessible.
And like you can grow your own medicine yourself. I grew it in my closet and you can do it too. How complicated is it to grow? I mean, definitely more so than, you know, just, like, growing, propagating plants, but I would say that anyone is capable of doing it. It just takes a little bit of research to make it seem, like, less daunting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tried once a long time ago, but it was, it just didn't work out. I'll have to try. Yeah.
I'm like, I got 50,000 other things to do. I'll let you grow. It definitely takes time and energy and a lot of love.
Yeah. and like it has to be super clean and the temperature right right it's not like generally i usually just throw seeds and all this stuff grows in the ground but, generally it's helpful to have a sterile space yeah why is that it's because of you know airborne like contaminants that can grow on like your agar petri dish or in your grain or because like Like you're working with a sterile substrate. So when it's so sterile, like it can be a breeding ground for mold and bacteria.
Okay. Yeah. So then that will not let the psilocybin grow or it will just be a part of it? Well, the mycelium, so when the spores are put on like a nutrient agar plate, because that's like sometimes generally the first step, then they will germinate and then start growing mycelium.
But if there's like a contaminant it will disrupt the growth of mycelium and then if you transfer that into the next substrate then oftentimes that contaminant will there and then the mushrooms just like often won't grow but sometimes the mycelium will outcompete like the trigoderma or whatever contaminant you're working with what do you know about all the mushrooms that are like for like there was an oil spill in the ocean and they put these mushrooms and they
ate it all up and transformed it like have you heard about that i have heard about it it's not really my like feel but it's really fascinating to me and i think that mushrooms have so much potential in like all areas of life you know yeah but yeah i think that they're doing more studies on that mushroom specifically and also like the plastic eating the plastic universe i believe yeah and then they're They're also making like coffins fully out of mycelium.
Oh, really? So that you just. Which I just think is so symbolic to like the relationship. Yes, you're back to the earth. I want one of those, but I got you can. Me too. Where are those? So it's a mycelium made coffin and you go, probably you have to go to the green funeral, of course, the green cemetery. Yeah. Yeah, these cemeteries over here. I'm not going to go into that. The death trade, I hate it. But yeah, that sounds really cool, a mycelium coffin.
It's just like I'm listening to you thinking they're so smart. The mushrooms are so smart. And we are so much younger than them. That's just the thing.
I just think they bring, it's like, I always like to talk about, I don't know what you think about this, but it's like the mushrooms are the software update for this system for the system of this operating system of the body right for sure you're getting the download oh and i mean yeah it's not easy they make your work like you said but it's then you know you get new ideas you know what you need to do you're, it's interesting to think of the concept of like the electromagnetic field and
the mycelium and And like how they communicate underground and like that they are doing that within the body as well. Yeah, it's cool. It is. And I think they're really smart. And I also think that we are very smart and they're just reminding us of our power. And the capacity. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. I like that you said that. Thank you. Reminding us of our power, of our love.
Yeah. Yeah, and of that interconnectedness that it's, yeah, I guess everything can make you feel so alienated, right? And then the trauma and the nervous system of, I'm so scared. Take back your power. Let the mushrooms help you. Well, thank you so much. I don't know if there's anything else you want to talk about or that you want to leave us with? I think overall, I just am a huge advocate for the fungal organism.
Them and I think the more you know about something like the greater capacity you have to really love that thing and I think if people don't love mushrooms they probably just don't know enough about them so I just encourage you all to get to know more about fungi because they really are everywhere and there's so many uses I mean some of your favorite things like involve fungi like like chocolate, for example, and wine, beer, and antibiotics, too.
Like, there's so many, like, uses for fungi in our world. And I think I would just want to leave it with, like, I love mushrooms so much, and I will, like, continue to spread their message forever. So I want to say that we're like working on a course right now to teach people to cultivate their own mushrooms that will be available in person and online.
Just as another way to kind of like educate the world and like empower people to grow their own food and medicine and just be like self-sustainable. Because, like I said, we want to return to the old ways and to the simplicities of life and feel empowered and independent and sovereign. Nice. So maybe you can let us know how to access this course or your webpage or where people can find you. Yeah, it will be through Lacuna Medicinals, which our website,
maybe we can... I'll definitely put it on the link.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. sure and then you can always reach out to us directly if you are interested in you know like one-on-one classes but we're located here in san diego and we also do girl consultation we do ceremony work both individual and group ceremony yeah okay good yeah i'll put your instagram and the web page and all that information in here and yeah maybe you can come back sometime and we'll talk more thank you so much for having me yes great thank you thank you
everyone for listening and for sharing this podcast with everybody that you know that would benefit from this information which in my opinion is everyone because like talia said you got to get the word out on these mushrooms and just how beautiful yeah just how helpful they are i love Love the word allies. Yeah. Okay. Peace out. Thank you. Peace out. Bye. Yeah. How do you feel? Good. That was good. I like that. I think it was good. What do you guys think? Yeah, that was super interesting.
That was super good. Very interesting. Good. Good tip. Tali. T-A-L-I-A. Omo Natalia. Is it short for Natalia? Natalia. Natalia. Yeah. Okay. And then I'm going to.