GLD 476 - Too Many Divorces...Or Not Enough?

This is Pod Popular podcast for the people, the Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate. Hi again everyone, It's Brian Howie. Welcome to The Great Love Debate, the world's number one Dating in a Relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I'm here in the fine studios of Pod Popular in Boca Raton, Florida. It's very very nice here, and over the last I don't know years, so we've done quite a few shows

I'm great?

How are you?

Thank you for having me?

Are there too many divorces or not enough?

Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I guess it's just about right.

It's right about Maybe it's not the right ones.

You know, things just kind of happen in relationships. People just grow apart.

So yeah, I think so. We talked about this on a prior podcast where you know the old stat that half of marriages and in divorce, But there's a big chunk that stay together unhappily. And there's a bunch of reasons for that, kids, money or whatever. But a lot of people stay into it because they just don't either know how or they're afraid of the process.

Of divorce, absolutely one hundred percent.

And what are they afraid of? Are they afraid the legal paperwork? They're afraid that it's going to be a mistake. Are they afraid that they don't know where to turn? The cost? Why? Why do all of it?

I think that people generally when they're in an unhappy relationship, on a happy marriage, they they're afraid of the unknown, you know. The people tend to stay in relationships because they know what they're getting, even though it's bad.

The devil, you know.

Oh yeah, And so you know, just as the humans that we are, we're just most of us are not looking for change. We might want change, but getting there is difficult, and especially when you're in a bad relationship. So it's a cost, it's the kids, it's you know, what am I going to do? I'm going to lose half of everything. So and the fear of the legal process itself is always, you know, something that's of great concern.

How often you run across I get that the two biggest issues traditionally in divorce are money and custody. Sure, how often is it that one just doesn't want to get divorced? The emotion? How much of it is just they're not on the same page?

I think most of the time, you know. You know, I've been practicing now in Florida for twenty eight years, and I've seen a great evolution in the law and because of the legal standard that as lawyers were basically governed by it's pretty simple, it's not complicated. You know, there's an equitable distribution, there's asset division, presumption of fifty to fifty not so challenging to figure out.

Right.

Maybe they have issues as to the value of a business or the value of a real state or something, but easy. You have custody issues, which nowadays most of the parents work out. It's primarily they just don't want to get divorced. Basically, maybe one party doesn't or again they're in the process, but they're just fearful, and so everyone's in this emotional state that they're just kind of

And that's a big part of it, understanding when they get through this storm that there's new opportunities in bright sunny skies or whatever. But in the heat of the emotion and whatever the reasons are for people getting divorced, it's never a good thing that something has to end that you at some point had high hopes.

For absolutely, you know, but they do get there. And I have to tell you, in my twenty eight years of doing this, I can maybe name on one hand how many people went through the divorce process and ended up being in a worse position. Very few, if I was to statistically look at it, I am sure most got to a better place.

And most, like I wish they did this years ago.

Yeah, and you know it just because your family is ending in the traditional sense, it's still a family if you have children together, right, and so you know, many people see it as a failure. I tend to see it or help people to see it's the beginning of some different relationship that you're going to have with your ex and that can be a beautiful thing. I mean, I'm a prime example of that.

We were in the state of Florida as we record this, and you practice in Florida. Florida is easier than some other states. Some other states is like a long cooling off, like I think Maryland is like that, where like you can't do anything for a year.

Yeah, I'm not sure, but I know that we are one of the easier states, and there are requirements like here you have to be a resident for six months before you can get divorced. But there's no like if after you fulfill the residency requirement, you can get divorced. One party can want the divorce, the other doesn't need to want it. It's still going to happen, and there's no cooling off period. There's steps to get through it, but it's not like you have to wait and consider

I asked a big network TV exec one time, I go, how come there's not shows about divorce lawyers? And he said, I go, there's a lot of legal shows, but very rarely as one devoted to it, to a divorce law, family law practice. And he goes, it hits too close to home and people don't want to watch it. But

I came from a divorce family, so my parents divorce when I was five, my sister was three, and my dad didn't want anything to do with us. After that. A lot of it had to do with the fact that we were living in Massachusetts. My mother purposely relocated to Florida, so you know, distance wise, and he married the woman he was having an affair with, So I guess that kind of put you know, put it into some perspective that you know, he chose them and his

Right, So.

I love it.

Not every when somebody comes to you, everybody, the first meeting that somebody usually has from you, they use the phrase, I'm thinking about it and how do you engage how far along the line they are in there process.

I can usually gauge that pretty quickly. So if I was statistically to look at, I think that women when they come to see me are pretty much ready to get divorced. Generally. Generally, they're getting information, they've kind of made up their mind. Men are kind of feeling it out more. What am I going to lose? How much am I going to pay? What is it going to cost me?

Oh no, that's so sad, and uh BIG's the check?

Yeah, and they're concerned about that, you know, rightfully, So I get it.

You talked about the fifty to fifty earlier. Yeah, I know, states differ. It's fifty to fifty of what you made while you were married. So if you're a wealthy guy and you got married and your wealth sort of stayed the same, she doesn't get half of that, right or does that depend on the state.

Well, first of all, if you're a wealthy person, not just male, but female, you should have a prenup side note, but but yeah, So basically, you look at the date of the valuation, let's say, the marital estate before you got married, and then you look at the date as of the date of the filing of the divorce, and you see what you had then and remained intact and stayed separate and apart, and what you have now.

And so she spent a bunch of your money and it went down.

That's it. It's gone, It's gone.

How do you have that conversation, though? How do you have the prenup conversation without? I mean, that's got to be so awkward unless you're super rich, and then you're like, my board is making me do this?

Well, you know what, a lot of times, especially here in South Florida, we have children of wealthy parents, trust children. We have people that have already been through divorce that have substantial wealth. They're smart, most of them. I have to tell you that that I've had more prenups signings in the last let's say, sixty days and I've had in a long time. I'm getting them on a regular basis. It's just smart. If you think about it, if fifty percent of the people get divorced, I don't know, kind

You focus mainly on women, Not.

Really, I focus on women for my life coaching, right well, for both male and female. As a divorce lawyer, what.

How is the process other than what you said? And they come to you and they're not quite sure, but the breakup, you know, take the infidelity out of it. Take it we just grew apart out of it. Do you try and get into the why you're getting divorced? And try and said or you're just like, okay, you want to get divorced and I'm going to How much of you are you blending life coaching with divorce? Well?

I blend it, but I think any good divorce attorney first question is is your marriage irritatedly broken? Because that's one of the criteria for getting divorced, and if you can save the marriage, Like I have a case right now where he doesn't want to be divorced, but the wife has some severe substance abuse issues. He'd rather her get help, but this has been ongoing for years and as we know, we can't force people into treatment. So he's made a decision to get divorced. Would he prefer

You know you can take on this, let's stay together, but you can I don't want to be responsible for this dad if it gets out of hand.

Right, And that can work in some cases, you know where now they've resolved that and they can really focus in on other issues in their relationship.

So is custody easier to work out than the money.

It depends. Most of the cases that I deal with, I would say that the parties pretty much have the best interests of the children in line, and they're able to work it out. It's a little you know here and there, but they work through it. Other cases not so much. And I can kind of identify those clients that have an agenda with the children really far away.

Okay, you don't want to use the children as absolutely as a weapon. Way. I'm always surprised at how often women or a man they hate each other and think they are the devil, and then they're like, oh, but he's a good father. Oh sure, and they really can compartmentalize, which is shocking to me. Or they're like, we made this child together who we both love and we share this and I see the good things in the child. But they're they're really able to the compartment which is amazing. Props to them.

It's good for them. I mean my ex husband Sam, who's also a lawyer but doesn't touch family law. He does medical mail practice and PI stuff him and I I would consider him one of my best friends. Like literally, I could call him at three in the morning.

I need him.

He's there for me same here, we just the kids.

Wherever do you handle your own divorce?

Is not because you have a fool for a client, right.

O.

No, I had somebody else handle it. But at the end we really put our client, our lawyers aside, and we went to mediation ourselves and we banged it out in eight hours and we went to dinner.

How often does somebody either change their mind on the money, like, oh my god, I can't I sign that and I want to go back and do it again, or you know what, I realized I still love him. Can we can we get this back together? That's not your problem.

No, No, I've had the I call my annuities. I've had that happened. But most of the time, when we get through the process, the legal system is still you know, it's got a lot of problems. So just no matter how amicable, you have to do, certain things in the legal process that kind of push people further apart, and it's changing slowly, but by the end they usually don't really consider reconciliation. But I have had a few.

Yeah, So we talked about that on a podcast couple of years ago. That boyfriend and girlfriends break up and they get back together all the time, but rarely and people are like, once the legal gets involved, it's.

A it changes everything.

It does. It changes the tone and how you see them. When somebody gets divorced, how do they understand the process of it or how much of it? Like you have to teach them here are the steps, and here's what's going to work. And it's not just you know, we sit in a room and here's how we find the money, and here's how we realize who gets what and whatever. It's complicated. You're earning your money on this.

It's complicated. I call it the Ian one of divorce. You know, they need an education, not to a level of knowing it like I do, but they certainly need to make educated decisions. And I look to them for the answers. Here's your option, we can do this. Here's how much it's going to cost you. What's the cost benefit here? You know, if you have a man who let's not say man, if you have someone who's going to pay support and you're talking a five hundred dollars

And you must run into man or woman again not to stereotype somebody who has not worked in twenty years or more and maybe the assets were nothing and suddenly they're like, oh my god, I'm fifty four years old and I got to find a job.

Yeah. That happens a lot scary a lot of traditional marriages here.

Yeah, you know that.

I that in our community where we live here in Boca, and you know it's changing. But I always said, listen, if you get married young or whenever you get married, and you're going to give up your career, you got to think about that because the courts are not awarding support alimony like they used to years ago, and they are expecting you, whether you're fifty four or sixty to work.

Yeah, if somebody gave up their career to raise the kids, take care of the house. He was a doctor, had a gambling problem. He lost it all and now we're divorced, and then he can continue working. Sure is that factor in? And then it's like, well, she gave it up, so until she can get up to a certain point, he still has to pay.

Absolutely that matters. And it looks at you look at the standard of living. You look at what is considered a need versus extras. You know, somebody has a clothing habit every month of ten grand. That's probably not a need, right, but there is some allowance for clothing. Let's just say as an example. And then they're going to say, what is her capacity for work? And let's say, and I'm saying he, it's he, shey because women pay alimony as well. I have it both ways. But she can work and

Most alimony stops when she remarries.

Yes, that would be considered what they call permanent alimony. You know, long term alimony and generally or if they're in support of financial relationship, that changed, right, you know, So now if you're living with somebody and you're you know, you don't have as many expenses, you're being you know, either directly or indirectly provided support.

You can can he make the case like listen, she loves him and they're just not marrying because they want me.

To pay right, Well, you could rate, you could, yeah, yeah, but we get really dig you know, you start digging deep into finances and subpoenaing records and figuring it out. So you know, I understand that it seems fair. You know, it seems fair.

All right, We got to take a quick break because we need to take care of our finances, but we will be back on them here with Duran Yaff and we're talking about all things love and divorce right after this, and we are back our second marriage. Second divorce is easier.

I think, so is it?

Is it because they've been through it or so it's you do get.

Better at Remember we started talking about the unknown. Right now they know and so they're more That's maybe why the divorce rate for second time marriages is higher. I don't know, but but.

They because the fantasy of the fifth ever after is gone, I think, so.

I think there's more realistic. They're just a wiser, you know, as we all get in our age.

But and I went through it and I survived it, which is a big part of recidivism if you're talking about criminal Actually they did the time, and they survived and they got out. So they're like part of the scariness of oh my god, I went to jail for five years is gone. Yeah, yeah, you know, and so part of the you know, people look at whether it's dating, a relationship is a game of musical chair chairs and they don't want to get stuck without a seat. So a lot of times people would rather stay in a

I think that certainly they're better earners now than they were many years ago. So that's all factored into it when you look at support, either child support or alimonies. So you know, I have cases where women are the breadwinners, and I think with the younger generation even more so. You know, there's automen that stay home and take on that responsibility and that's okay, it's good.

You know, how often do you run into how did you ever marry this person?

But you know what, it's that expression elephants don't marry giraffes or giraffes don't marry. You always wonder, like you see this other person on the other side and you're like, oh, okay, this is really not a good person. How did you even get there?

Right?

But then you start to uncover things about your client, You're like, oh, I see how you guys connected. But sometimes, yeah, I had I had a really sad case where he was absolutely a para what do they call it?

A liar?

You pathological liar diagnosed one hundred percent could fool anybody. And that was a really sad case because she happened to be one of the most amazing women I've ever met, came from a great family. But he was able to convince her of things that you know, others couldn't and he was good at it. But other than that, I think, you know, what people generally are just good relationships.

Just I think if you walk down the aisle, you are hoping for the best. I think the men are a lot of times the women. He you know, he's be a good parent, could provide her get all these kinds of things, all the stereotypical things. It's still she dreams of the house, the dog, the white pick offense. He's not even in that list. But well, I think

I love.

I think they do. I think they are hoping in the moment or they're like, if I marry her, she won't leave me. There's something about like, oh I'm gonna lock her down, and they don't. They don't learn their lesson after all that time.

Yeah, you know, we all are just in this world trying to love. Yeah, I think, and we all want that. That's one of the higher needs you know that we all have.

Yeah, And even when somebody goes through something incredibly painful and they have been arguing every Tuesday in court for three years or whatever, there's a part of them, and that's part of your job, and that's part of our job, and that sort of society's job is to flame that hope again and have them because once they can see there's a possibility of all right, once I get through this, or once I stop thinking about this or the anger or the sadness subsides, I can start new again. And

I have people getting prenuptials that are in their eighties. They found love again, they found companionship, right, and they want to make sure that their estates are secure for their family. So they're going to have their trust all in place and all this. They just want to be together and it's a beautiful thing.

Can you if somebody dies without a will here, that's different. Every state's different, Every state's different. Yeah, And can they leave? Can somebody leave their estate to a dog in this state?

And that's not you know, that's above my.

Pag No, that's not what I mean. Certain states, it's like, yeah, the dog has a budget, and it's eighty percent of.

The will dog custody cases. Do you but dogs are considered chattel property from the old days, right, Yeah, so I mean, we've had drawn out fights about who gets a dog. And the bottom line is you can't have a visitation schedule. You can agree to it separately, but you can't have The courts won't order that.

They won't. They won't be like you get the dogs on weekends.

There's case all right on point one person gets a dog, it's considered property and that's it. I know, I know, I know that'll change because we all love our for friends.

Well, I mean, you know, fifty years ago, until the fifties, dogs were not in the house. Right, This is a fairly new development, and a lot of countries are like that. They're working animals and they're out and their true thousand horses or whatever. And somewhere time after World War Two, we decided to let the dog in the house. And then the dog got in the bed, and the dog was a child, and then he took over. I mean he takes over. But yeah, I didn't think about it.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've had a prenup in which that was going to be. That was one of the issues.

I get the dog, that's got to be tough. And then do they do they work out visitation or is that separate in the courts? Just like whatever you want to figure out, figure out they ken.

It's just that if you can't agree, the court's going to give the dog to one person.

Is it. I've asked some people this who have gotten divorced because somebody had an affair with somebody else. Yeah, And I always wondered, is it better if twenty years later they're still with that person because on some levels, like well, I guess it worked out for them, or the pairs of people always were rooting for it to not work out.

No, I don't know.

I think that would make it easier, while like, oh, I guess that they were better together than we were.

Have I had those cases of course? And you know what I mean. Look, I mean unfortunately people aren't faithful from time to time. I have to tell you it's not what I see is one of the maze major causes. It's really more about financials and a lot about just really communication. I know it sounds so cliche, right, but really just not growing together. They're just growing separately, and so you have to work at it right. You have to really work at your marriage right.

They got lazy. They went from husband wife to mom and dad, and then they grew apart, and.

Then you get comfortable. And you know, I say, sometimes people spend more time on their financials like writing checks or now we do it online, than they do on really working on the relationship every month, and you got to work at it.

Is there a huge rise in divorces when the youngest kid turns seventeen. That's a real thing.

That's a real thing because a lot of people have a perception that it's better to stay together even though it's bad until the children leave.

Yeah.

I have my own personal opinion on that. I'm not a therapist. I'm not into that line of work, but I just think it's a horrible example.

You were very very young when your parents got divorced. You could you remember that? Oh?

Yeah?

Is there an age where I guess every age is tough. They're old enough to understand but not quite old enough to process it. There's that's a pretty big window. What do you remember about it?

Just I remember he took my sister and I out to lunch with her, and I thought, you know, here, I am like probably four or five, at almost five at the time, and I thought, why am I with this lady? It felt weird to me, It felt not right right. A child other than that don't have a lot of memory of it, right, but I do remember it being something was wrong.

Can you work that out in court? Can she say I don't he can have visitation or partial custody but not around her.

The answer is yes and no.

Right he's kept doing force. Yeah.

So the courts in Florida very hitch's the word liberal, but they're very understanding that both parents get to have our due process, constitutional right to have our children and to parent them as we see appropriate. And if you chose to have a child with this person, then they get to make some decision on who they're going to expose a child to. So the courts are really reluctant to say no girlfriend or boyfriend around the child unless there's some best interest, like the person is using drugs

So does tie go to the mother?

Does what a tie?

It's like in baseball? The tie goes to the runner? Does a tie go to the mother? I don't believe. Okay, if it's no, I want the no.

Nh uh. That was called the tender year doctrines. That was way when I first started. Primarily moms got children because they presumed that up through the age. I believe it was too that the mothers were necessary to care and feed and do all the thing's caretaking. That was abolished. That's gone. It's really many men get more time sharing than women.

They do. Yeah, I know, but I thought it was always tough that the court was going to be like that. The woman has a lot more wiggle room behaviorally than the man, would you know.

I think that is kind of a transception, is because it really is a caretaker who's been the primary caretaker and if the mother has been which typically in many cases, is the case, then they will, you know, but it's Look, there's no presumption in Florida fifty to fifty time sharing. That's that's a policy here. That's not something we do. But do the courts look at them? Sure they do in their own minds.

Well, what did two people do if they're just like, he's the worst father, she's the worst mother. Yeah, nobody's gonna.

Cave prove it. You got to prove it to the court because it's best interest. And it's not easy because most of these best interest issues of bad dad bad mom are done in the privacy of your home.

Yeah, you know, can the court rule fifty to fifty or so? The court can? Yes, What if somebody is well, which again we're in South Florida, sure wealthy, they want the custody, But the custody for them means their nanny is going to do their half of the raising.

Is that That's a good question. You know. I always say that if dad's let's just say it's dad, right, and dad's around, and he has somebody that's going to help with the caretaking as long as he's around, and you know, he's not every night somewhere else, why not. You know, the courts are going to permit that an extra set of hair hands. It takes a village, right.

Is it a myth that the divorces went up from COVID. I don't know if Florida wasn't quite locked down.

Yeah, you know what. I tried to figure that out, and I couldn't find stats that conclusively told me that. I didn't see any change. I mean, I saw some change in postponed filings.

Right, it might have been an illusion that afterwards because the courts were so backed up and they still are right, and so it looked like a spike.

Yeah.

Did you were able to do it the whole time? They do it online here?

Yeah, so you know, some out of something bad something good. Right, So we in our office always had zoom because I found that clients run in privacy. I had one lady get in the elevator, wants to come to my office. Guess who was in the elevator her husband, oh man, and couldn't explain it at all. Why was she there? She was a stay at home mom and house maker and all that.

And why was he there? Well, he was.

Visiting somebody at one of the offices.

And so she had no she had no.

Idea, and I thought, oh, this isn't good. So we got zoom in place. But the courts now do most of the hearings non evidentiary hearings and smaller hearings by zoom. Great for clients, yeah, not always good for Like I had a five day trial. You can't do that by zoom. I mean, is it possible, yes, but it's going to add another three days onto. How do you show somebody a document? You know? How do you It's really challenging.

And they're not jury trials, right, they're just the judge, just the judge. How often so a woman comes to you or a man and they say, I'm thinking about getting divorced, do you try and tell them how to sock some money away for the divorce process because some people don't like some people don't have access to Like you brought up the woman with sneaking the meeting, Well, it's tough to sneak the bill the retainer, it is.

Yeah, So listen, everybody out there, have your own money, have your own resources, just in case you never know. And I could get into a whole topic on that one. But because I have three girls, you know some always telling them to make sure you're your own person, which I learned from my mother.

Right.

But the answer is, yeah, someday you need your your your funds, you know, and we we try to. We're not like some lawyers are like, Hey, the retainer's ten grand, and that's what it is. And no, it's not a one size fits all because I may be able to do the divorce and be more flexible or have different arrangements. It depends.

So but you must charge more if it's a wealthy couple, right, No, but you have.

More resources available, right, so all the buildings the same, it is. Yeah, it's just you're going to probably have some more complicated issues, maybe with valuation problems.

And that'll rack up the hours. Absolutely okay, But how do you what do you do if you're the woman and she hasn't had her own resources. It's you know, old school traditional marriage. Are you like, I don't get this on the back end?

No, No, I don't personally do that, and I don't know many good family lawyers that do, or board certified lawyers. But it's not an injury attorney, no, exactly. You can't in some cases for like collection of rearg and support. We can do that. I don't personally do it, but some lawyers do and that's permitted. But you will get to a temporary relief hearing and you will ask the court to impose attorney's fees and costs and you know,

Are people pretty good with making the payments they're supposed to make or does that depend on the state they.

Are with my firm?

Okay, certain states are tougher too, certain states. Some it's criminal and some are civil. Yeah.

I mean here the judges understand what it takes to get a case through and they understand the issues. And if it's complicating, you need experts involved. I mean some cases you got you know, valuation cases where you have a lot of businesses and you got to bring an expert in. It's like doing a value for any purpose.

Yeah. What does somebody do who they own a business together? Yeah, it happens there.

One person is going to get it if you go to trial. Now, some cases they have agreements to work together. I have one couple they are in business together post divorce and they chose to be in business because they are amazing business partners together.

Or yeah, and then maybe if the business fell apart, then neither neither one's going to get any money. Yes, So yeah, that makes sense too, have.

An interest, right?

Huh? What the most common? Is there a length of time of marriage that it's kids aside and we brought that they turned seventeen? Is it the three to five year part where most divorces happened or is it quicker or longer?

Longer?

Yeah?

From my experience, so I think it's somewhere around the seven year seven years.

That's a real pay No, it's.

A real thing, you know, because you're still on the honeymoon stage right right, and you start settling into more complacency after a period of time. So yeah, you know seven plus. I have a lot of long term marriages too, which is anything over eighteen years?

What's the longest marriage? Can you say? You can say over fifty years?

They were married.

I had met and she wanted to go back out, and he was doubt is that?

Let me tell you. I had one lady come to me and this is a recent case, and she's in her eighties and she said, I am not going to die married to him?

Yeah?

And you know what, she has a right, she has right.

And sometimes that's you know, the energy levels, the health levels.

And remember in Florida, you get fifty percent if you get through a divorce, right, you get fifty percent generally from the assets. Right, it's like a net worst statement. Divide it in half. You get thirty percent if the person if as an estate through probate, so thirty versus fifty. Sometimes they get divorced because they want that higher percentage. How they can do what they want with it. Right, There's a lot of times there's issues with older children. They align with one parent over the.

Other over fifty. When they over thirty years and they get divorced, it's generally more amicable or is It's hard to say.

It's hard to say. It's the same.

What's the quickest you've dealt with divorced? Like they get married on Friday and they're in there on Monday.

That's called an annulment. And hopefully they didn't have relationships.

Well, can you get an old? Can you get an old for no reason? No?

It has to be based on like fraud.

What if like we we had never lived together, before we got married, honeymoon, we moved together. I can't believe he puts his socks on the floor. I can not deal with this.

You're gonna have it.

Yeah, you had an under thirty days and like, this isn't working.

I have had a few like that, but they're rare. They're rare.

So it's the sweet spot. It's the seven years.

Yeah, seven years plus seven to like eighteen. When they come to me after like twenty plus years, I'm like, really really, you know, so I really try to make sure that this is what they really need to do, want to do, should do.

Uh how often are you like, oh my god, I'm on the other person's side. But this is my job as a lawyer. Like you're a terrible wife or your terrible husband, But I got to do my job. But oh man, you know.

I don't take every case that comes to the door because I've had people that have agendas and I can pretty much spot that so or personalities that don't match with mine. You know, because I'm gonna be a straight shooter and I'm going to tell you the way it is. I'm not going to just do it to get paid. I'm going to tell you listen, you gotta clean that, you know up, because that personality isn't going to do

Or you're like, of course he's going to divorce you or I like that and I'm like, okay, I get this, yeah, or it's like oh yeah, I see what you were doing.

Oh boy, I've had those.

Yeah. I mean every you know, divorced woman thinks she happened to marry a narcissist, right, you know that's statistically it's like, oh my god, there's such bad luck for everybody.

You know what that's that that that term is used so often here I think.

Over you it is statistically it's like two percent of people are clinical narcissists. And I'm like, maybe maybe he just didn't like or maybe it's just a jerk, or it's how how often are the guys like, you know what, she really just wanted money, She really did just want my money? And is the courts like too bad? Like you didn't realize that it's too bad? Right?

Orts are too bad? It's really it's a mathematical calculation, right, what are the assets at that data marriage data filing?

That's it divided. She not quite married you under false pretenses, but they love you. The I love yous were probably not as binding as you thought they were.

Look, and we have a lot of second high marriages where the older person is marrying some of the younger and you know, typically the and the writings on the wall. I mean not every case, right, but very often, you know, but love comes in different forms, and maybe being taken care of and protected and knowing you're financially secure is valuable and has.

You know, that's starting to change more too. There's more women in that situation, absolutely, more sugar mamas than they're used to. Yeah, yes, especially down here where she has her late husband ex husband's money and then she's like, I'm gonna have fun with the young guy and then he had spent two years and then that's it. I know, what is the thing that people be surprised to learn about getting divorced, the process of it, or.

Surprised about it. It's really not that complicated, really, yeah, if you can, And that's why being a life coach too is a helpful. I think asset for my clients, but if they don't use me for life coaching and they have a therapist. Look, there's the emotions of divorce, and it really needs to be separate and apart from the divorce and your lawyer. But the divorce itself pretty simple. It's not challenging. It's all those emotions. So the biggest on,

The process has been honed over time by the courts and lots of lawyers. I was in a Why is there such a plethora of injury attorney advertising? I don't know, was there a law change or something that it's every billboard because there used to be in the morning. I mean, well, there used to be liquor. There used to be a ban on liquor advertising on television. And then I went away and we see more of it. So nothing changed, and suddenly everybody's a injury. I mean I went through that.

There's no ultimate right, and it's tough to.

Wrap up the bills on it. And so it's one of those things. So the lawyers like, by the time we get to court on this, you're going to be fine. You know, it's hard to describe how much it hurt.

That's that's what my ex husband does. And you'll have a horrific accident, you know, and I'm sure it was extremely painful and lost wages and time and all that. But if you can recover physically, yeah, and you don't have the damages, the permanent damage, right from what I know.

That's not my expertise, you know, because I know. So it's like, by the time if you heal, people are like, oh, yeah, broken ribs, terrible, it sucks. I'm like, I had thirteen of them. They're like, yeah, you're fine now. So I had we had to settle it long before we went to cortcause the longer we waited, the or healed. I was I know, thank god, I know, thank god, it

Absolutely.

Yeah, all right, this is your first time on the podcast. We play something with our guests called worst date or first date. So you have to you have to think back to your swinging single days. Give me either the worst date you've ever had or the best first date you've ever had.

Your choice first estate, Yes, our best first day.

Either the best first date or a terrible date of any number.

First Okay, and I can see him from where I'm sitting right now.

Oh good.

My husband, my current husband, we met on July third, twelve years ago, and we met for lunch and at the mall here and I got out, you know, of work at the time, and we spent the entire I canceled my entire day and the next day, that was on a Friday, July third, and I saw him the next day and I got married in four months.

Fireworks.

Yeah, wow, amazing chemistry, just like safety chemistry. I can't even explain.

How long had you? How long were you single.

Oh, a couple of years, A couple of years. Yeah, and I had dated you know that here and there, but I wasn't. I was never really a dating type. I am busy, I you know so, and I have three young children.

Right.

Yeah, so you.

Married fireworks state fireworks the next night. Yeah, four months later.

Yeah, good for you. Yeah.

Can I ask where you met?

Yeah? We met at the Grand Lux the restaurant. Yeah, at the mall. Which mall is that in town center?

Oh? Yeah? Right here in Boca Raton there it all goes down here.

I'm there and uh yeah, so good for you.

Yeah, all right, where can everybody find you if they need a lawyer? Or listen to your podcast?

Okay, so it's your divorce, your amazing divorce. And then my email dress is Dorin Yaffa and the last name is spelled Yaffa at Yaffa Family Lawgroup dot com and five six one two seven six three eighty zero.

Good job. This was fun. I've never been married or divorced, but now I'm not so scared of either.

Okay, just remember prenup.

Noted see that to me, it would be hard. I'm like, I just slip it across the table at Grandlox on the first day.

It's okay. It's not for everybody.

It's not for everybody, but you're right, I can logistically at least you have something. The worst thing is like you don't have anything like prenup Like sure.

True?

All right, As far as us like share, follow, please review not just your amazing divorce but our podcast to Your reviews mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem. Shoot us an email, Great Loove Debate at gmail dot COMFG any questions, comments, thoughts, or divorce horror stories. We might do a whole episode on that because, as always at the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love. See you next time. The Great Love Debate. It's the Great